This afternoon, the US announced new sanctions in a set of Russian oligarchs who are especially close to the madman, Putin.
*cartoon courtesy of Subaru Diane
Jen Psaki:
“These are significant steps that will impact the people who are closely around President Putin,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters.”We want him to feel the squeeze. We want the people around him to feel the squeeze.”
The U.S. on Thursday announced new sanctions against members of the Russian elite, including Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, and said it would block 19 oligarchs and 47 of their relatives and close associates from traveling to the United States.
The sanction targets include Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, as well as one of Russia’s richest men, Alisher Usmanov, according to the White House.
In a news release, the Treasury Department said it and the State Department had intensified pressure on Russia by “sanctioning numerous Russian elites and their family members, identifying certain property of these persons as blocked, and sanctioning Russian intelligence-directed disinformation outlets.”
It said the elites sanctioned provided direct and indirect support to the Russian government through their business empires, wealth, and other resources. “The aid of these individuals, their family members, and other key elites allows President Vladimir Putin to continue to wage the ongoing, unprovoked invasion of Ukraine,” the release said.
.Shortly after he arrived in Brussels for a full day of meetings Thursday with NATO, the G-7, and European Union counterparts, among other allies, Secretary of State Antony Blinken weighed in on the new sanctions.
“These actions make it clear there is nowhere to hide for individuals and entities that support Russia’s flagrant war against Ukraine,” he said in a statement.
The statement also said the Department of State is imposing substantial costs on Russia’s defense enterprises by sanctioning 22 defense-related firms. “These far-reaching sanctions target entities that develop and produce fighter aircraft, infantry fighting vehicles, electronic warfare systems, missiles, and unmanned aerial vehicles for Russia’s military. These sanctions strike at the core of Putin’s war machine,” he said.
The Russian elites named in the White House release are:
- Nikolai Tokarev (his wife Galina, daughter Mayya, and his two luxury real estate companies)
- Boris Rotenberg (his wife Karina, and his sons Roman and Boris)
- Arkady Rotenberg (his sons Pavel and Igor and daughter Liliya)
- Sergei Chemezov (his wife Yekaterina, his son Stanislav, and stepdaughter Anastasiya)
- Shuvalov (his five companies, his wife Olga, his son Evgeny and his company and jet, and his daughter Maria and her company)
- Yevgeniy Prigozhin (his three companies, his wife, Polina, his daughter Lyubov, and his son Pavel)
- Peskov, President Putin’s press secretary
- Usmanov (his superyacht and his private jet, one of Russia’s largest privately-owned aircraft
The Russian entities being sanctioned are: SDN Strategic Culture Foundation and associated outlets; Odna Rodyna, Rhythm of Eurasia, and Journal Kamerton; SouthFront; SDN InfoRos; New Eastern Outlook; Oriental Review; United World International; and Geopolitical.
Update: I am often cartoon-challenged. I love this one, but I am wondering if someone can explain the crab and the two stars that are in the lower left on the bottom part of the cartoon.
Update 2: Questions answered! thank you
CROAKER
Thoughts and prayers…start domestically clean the soap scum
Walt Rittenhouse
The crab is anonymous and the stars are symbolic of pain.
trollhattan
IDK if the crab is supposed to represent anybody (Mr Crabs from Spongebob?) but is pinching the shark fin, thus the stars indicating “ouch.”
Probably learned that in Am Lit or somesuch.
ETA Garrison would have labeled everything.
SpaceUnit
I believe the crab represents Anonymous, the hacker group.
The stars indicate that an ouchy is being inflicted.
WaterGirl
@Walt Rittenhouse: Anonymous as in the hacker group Anonymous?
Chetan Murthy
crab is Anonymous ? stars are pain ?
B_Rogers
The crab is wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, so I suspect it’s Anonymous attacking Russian intelligence networks.
hrprogressive
Yeah the crab has the “V for Vendetta” mask on, and I think it’s Anonymous as well.
Maybe they can’t muster geopolitical forces like the school of fish, but they can cause significant annoyance to say the least
zhena gogolia
@SpaceUnit: Yeah, it has that mask face from the movie about Guy Fawkes or something.
WaterGirl
@Walt Rittenhouse: @SpaceUnit:
Did you guys take the same class on the interpretation of symbols in cartoons? :-)
edit: apparently all of you took the same class. i must have been out that day.
WaterGirl
@B_Rogers:
I missed that, that was key.
CaseyL
If you look closely at the crab, you’ll see its wearing a Guy Fawkes mask.
Good on the additional, increased sanctions. Even if the oligarchs move all their wealth to the Maldives, the other sanctions prevent them from being able to spend it in mass quantities
.., and B Rogers beat me to the Guy Fawkes reference!
SpaceUnit
@WaterGirl:
Everything I know I learned from watching cartoons.
Which probably explains a lot about my life.
eclare
@B_Rogers: Gotta agree
Chris Johnson
@WaterGirl: Yeah, looks a bit like a Guy Fawkes mask. I could believe it’s Anonymous. A lot of ’em were alt righters, Putin fans, and nazis, but the thing is that Anonymous isn’t your personal army… and if fucking with Putin is funnier than supporting him, then he shall be fucked with. Probably some kind of event that I didn’t notice, that inspired the crab. Anonymous doing some kind of anti-Russia cyberhacking or other.
WaterGirl
I love that all the fish on the right look fierce and determined. Putin has the enraged and unhinged look. Both accurate.
SpaceUnit
Also I have experienced my share of those stars.
debbie
Now that we’ve got that settled, have any sanctionees made any public statements?
trollhattan
We get mail.
You won’t be seeing this in Florida–coupons from “amuse.com” for thirty bucks or fifty bucks off your next cannabis home delivery. “Lowest prices guaranteed.” Also “There’s a new bud in your city.” Unknown if a bucket of wings is part of the dealio. Seems mandatory.
WaterGirl
@debbie: I googled to try to find out, but all I got were a zillion stories about some Russian oligarch’s wife who hired an ex-military team to seize her the yacht of her -ex. But that was in 2021, apparently.
Still, I admire her style.
Brachiator
Agree that the crab is just anonymous. Not Anonymous, i.e., not anything special.
And the stars are just pain from the crab’s pinch.
Doesn’t look like anything special to me.
oldgold
Dmytro Kuleba
@DmytroKuleba
· 36m
Russian army is firing from all sides upon Zaporizhzhia NPP, the largest nuclear power plant in Europe. Fire has already broke out. If it blows up, it will be 10 times larger than Chornobyl! Russians must IMMEDIATELY cease the fire, allow firefighters, establish a security zone!
AndoChronic
Time to go American psycho yet? The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire now. Prevailing winds? Blow to the east? Derp.
CaseyL
Oh, jolly:
Reports are that “only” the administrative wing is on fire. If the fire reaches the core, it could render fears of a nuclear weapon breakout a bit moot.
mali muso
This seems, um, less than ideal.
CaseyL
I see we all have the same Twitter feed.
debbie
@debbie:
Bill Browder on WGBH’s The World is interviewed about sanctions, Putin, and the affected oligarchs.
WaterGirl
I am worried about Mary G. Has anyone heard from her since she posted about being in the hospital, congestive heart failure, eating ice chips and dangerously low blood pressure?
trollhattan
Lady in a turban, cocaine tree
Does a dance so rhythmically
She’s cryin’, and a singin’ and having a time
and gee that cocaine tree look fine
Kimmy, Kimmy, Kimmy, you’ve climbed aboard the wrong ship.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Hell hath no fury like …
lowtechcyclist
The Russians are bombing the shit out of the biggest nuclear power plant in Europe, which is in Ukraine. If it blows, it’ll dwarf what happened at Chernobyl.
Up to now, I’ve been firmly against direct U.S. intervention, including a no-fly zone, because of the risk of nuclear confrontation. Now that Russia’s found other ways to go nuclear, it’s time for us to intervene.
Biden needs to get on the phone with Putin tonight, and tell him that the attacks on the power plant stop NOW or we come in and make him stop. This can’t wait until morning; that might be too late.
ETA: Looks like several others shared the news while I was typing this up.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
What???
dmsilev
With regards to the non-crab parts of that cartoon, something I read the other day (probably on Twitter): “You know you’ve seriously fucked up your geopolitics when one of the results of your actions is that Germany institutes a massive rearmament program and all of their neighbors respond with applause.”
Gin & Tonic
@oldgold: They are firing on the firefighters.
WaterGirl
@nym: Your obviously fake email address and obviously fake URL caused your comment to go into moderation.
If you would like your comments to show up for everyone, you will need to comment again without the fake email and fake URL.
West of the Rockies
@trollhattan:
Gavin might be laughing his keister off…
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
I’ve been worried about her too. That was a very concerning message she sent. Didn’t know that she was in hospital, though. I hope she’s stabilising and that she can update us soon.
Walt Rittenhouse
@WaterGirl: yes, I should have mentioned that if you enlarge the crab, you’ll see that its’ face is the mask from “V for Vendetta” ( a great comic ), which they use as there symbol.
Another Scott
@mali muso:
Google Street View (from 2015). It looks like at least 6 reactor buildings.
(via AlJazeera)
Grr…,
Scott.
Darkrose
@trollhattan: We get a lot of delivery offers in the mail, but none of them have the selection that our woman-owned dispensary does.
West of the Rockies
@WaterGirl:
Several of us urged her to seek medical attention immediately. Fingers crossed. ?
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Only what is posted here. I don’t live all that far away but have no idea of an address or phone #. I’d have gone to check if I knew.
Professor Bigfoot
I’m wondering if deliberately targeting a nuclear facility like that might be considered a crime against humanity?
Or could it be excused as denying electricity to the enemy, no different from taking out a coal powered generating plant?
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: Oh no. I missed that. :-(
Strength to Mary G.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Do we really want to know?
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Six reactors, great. Know who else had six reactors? Fukushima Daiichi.
Ruckus
@Professor Bigfoot:
Considering the difference between any substances emitted by the differing types of power generating substances I’d say that one type would be far, far more dangerous and deadly than the other.
One could also look at this as possible nuclear warfare. I do.
WaterGirl
@debbie:
Mary G. yesterday:
Mary G. middle of the night last night (1 am):
It’s very worrisome. I just sent her an email,
but I don’t know if she even has an internet device at the hospital.edit: duh. If she was writing to us at 1am last night she must have a device at the hospital.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl: Oh goodie, a new troll. No, scratch that – more likely, a relabeled old troll.
@WaterGirl: At least it sounds like Mary G is in the hospital, where she’s being taken care of.
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: I am pretty sure she was in the hospital when she wrote at 1am last night, because on Tuesday she had said she hoped to “get out on Friday”.
So she was in the right place, anyway.
Geminid
@trollhattan: Last April Guilfoyle was named “National Campaign Chairman” by Missouri Senate candidate Eric Greitens. Polls show him currently leading a large field. The primary is in early August.
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: I actually wasn’t being snarky. Some people don’t want to supply an email address so they fake one but the spam filter catches a lot of the obvious fakes.
randal m sexton
@WaterGirl: funny. I have several fake looking but real email addresses, having gotten them when email was in early days.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl: An email address is required, but not a URL. Why would they put in a fake URL?
WaterGirl
@debbie: At that link:
emphasis mine. I would like to think he is wrong, but that’s doubtful.
edit: But he says this does cut Putin off from Putin’s access to their funds.
zeecube
Crab’s got him by his shark-balls.
The Dangerman
@Professor Bigfoot:
Couldn’t they just take out the transmission lines? Same result, far less dickish. It feels last couple days that being dick is the goal, as in, “Nyah, nyah, look at me being a dick and you can’t do shit about it ” kinda stuff.
Is Poland downwind from the nuclear pant at all?
WaterGirl
@zeecube: I think you are right!
lgerard
Sometime headlines tell you all you need to know
“This was an innocent misunderstanding,” Weinstein said
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: If you’re new to BJ and you don’t notice there is no * next to the URL box, it’s easy enough to think that you need to enter a URL.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl: Ah. OK
Regarding what Bill Browder said – I don’t think we were counting on the oligarchs to change Putin’s war plans. I think we were kind of hoping they’d kill him/have him killed.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: Let’s not assume every new commenter is a troll.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Especially since their financing has been cut off
CaseyL
@Omnes Omnibus: I wasn’t. Fake email and fake URL seemed suspicious to me, but WaterGirl says not.
Argiope
@The Dangerman: ((furiously loading name into google maps)): Place appears to be in the southeast, with close access to the Dnipro river. Not obviously near any large cities. Does have an international airport. Closer to Black Sea, Turkey, Odesa and Russia than Poland.
different-church-lady
Well, one small bit of good news:
At the very least the sanctions mean these particular scumbag propagandists can’t inflict any more damage on our democracy.
dr. luba
From the Ukraine Today Telegram feed:
A lot of information from the nuclear engineer on why the Ruscists will not be able to blow up the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Station, even if they really want to.
In short: nuclear power plants can withstand almost a nuclear strike, and certainly should not explode from the shelling of Russian invaders.
(There is attached Russian language documentation)
WaterGirl
@dr. luba: That’s encouraging news.
WaterGirl
@randal m sexton: Yeah, there’s one commenter here who has a totally crazy-looking email address that actually works, which I know because I have received email from it.
WaterGirl
@debbie: That was only 7+ minutes and it was really good.
thank you
eclare
@Another Scott: Same here.
Mallard Filmore
@The Dangerman: Poland is west and north-west of Ukraine, and winds generally blow out of the west (from Poland) to the east (toward Russia).
E.
None of you literary scholars has read the children’s book Swimmy before???? This cartoon is a pretty obvious shout-out to that most excellent tome. Look it up. I’m serious.
Origuy
Something a little more light-hearted, a video about the history of the Ukrainian flag. It’s made by a Dutch YouTuber called Hilbert.
dr. luba
The State Emergency Service of Ukraine gives details on the fire at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP):
?The fire broke out outside the territory of the nuclear power plant – in the training building.
?The third power unit at the Zaporizhzhia NPP was disconnected from the entire system.
?Only the fourth power unit is working.
? Radiation and fire safety conditions at the nuclear power plant are within normal limits.
Chetan Murthy
@debbie: I’ll add my thanks also: lovely 7min interview with Browder. Thank you so much!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Professor Bigfoot
@Ruckus: I agree completely.
Could this be the straw that forces NATO’s hand?
Peale
@WaterGirl: Never heard of him. Give me back my yacht.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Thanks, fingers crossed for Mary G.
lowtechcyclist
My town has taken a sort of stand:
The fuckers who run this place apparently can’t manage anything less vapid than that. Even illuminating the town hall in blue and yellow apparently would be taking too strong a stand for them to manage, let alone to mention who’s on the giving or receiving end of this particular breaking of the peace.
If they were going to be that namby-pamby, they really shouldn’t have bothered doing anything at all, and I’ve let them know how I feel. (No insults, name-calling, or dirty words – I’ve long since mastered the art of polite fury.)
hotshoe
Goddamn the fucking Russians.
It’s nights like these when I wish there really is a Hell to consign them to.
Peale
@Origuy: Hilbert is one of the better vlogs that I follow. I like that he focuses on very near contemporary history. Want to know what is the history behind a new conflict in Africa that you haven’t paid attention to until it bubbled over? Well, Hilbert will take it up.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Dangerman: from what I’ve been reading, Russian gunners just aren’t that good.
worse, their war planners aren’t that good if they didn’t try to shut off the power everywhere on days 1-3. In my deeply humble opinion.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
@Chetan Murthy:
It’s a good show if you can get it.
Almost Retired
@WaterGirl: when you’re talking about a commenter with a valid but crazy looking email address, are you referring to me? Because lots of people still use AOL, I swear! Young, technologically sophisticated people, too..believe me…..
dr. luba
@Professor Bigfoot: II’ve read that the solders were only given two days worth of rations, as the war would be over by then, of course
And now they’re raiding grocery stores and private homes for food.
Peale
@WaterGirl: Also a lot of the sanctions are very hard on regular russians. There shouldn’t be some “well he owns a football team” exemption for the already extremely pampered.
eclare
@lowtechcyclist: Jeezus, even Memphis illuminated the I-40 Bridge over the Mississippi in blue and yellow.
dr. luba
@Peale: No, the sanctions should be even harder on the football team owners……
Some oligarchs are starting two squeal. And another one died today in England…..
Bobby Thomson
That should help a lot with the largest nuclear power station in Europe that is currently on fire while the Russian army prevents firefighters from approaching
Bobby Thomson
@dr. luba: all they need to do is create a sufficiently long power outage and there will be at least a partial meltdown as in Japan
Peale
@dr. luba: Well, they should be. But go ask Boris Johnson. Just have to check to make sure with some of our allies.
Steeplejack
Seen on Twitter:
japa21
@Almost Retired: I’m one of those AOL users. Also have a Hotmail, comcast and gmail accounts which I never use.
Villago Delenda Est
There are a few names missing from this list. TFG and Fuckyo Rose, for a start.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
have some schadenfreude
George
Pages 12215 through 12220 of the March 3 Federal Register discuss this very thing–that is, sanctions against oligarchs.https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/current
Omnes Omnibus
That’s the impression I am getting. Accurate indirect fire requires a bunch of people to be good at their jobs. A breakdown anywhere and rounds go down range to no one knows where. And that seems like what we are seeing. If I were Russian armor or infantry, I wouldn’t want to rely on these guys to get me out of trouble. It’s embarrassing.
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: When were you in Korea?
Gin & Tonic
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: So if this nuke plant melts down isn’t that a defacto nuclear strike?
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: I doubt it will.
raven
MSNBC says the fire is outside the reactors and things are ok.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: Listen to the redleg here. The US developed the most sophisticated indirect fire process on the planet. It’s pretty obvious that the Russians haven’t replicated it.
Gin & Tonic
dmsilev
@Gin & Tonic: Can confirm.
HumboldtBlue
@WaterGirl:
Lol, that may be the comment of the year.
Gin & Tonic
@George: Link returns a 404.
Villago Delenda Est
@raven: I answered in the old thread, but it’s daid. 87-88, my unit provided fixed station comms for everything north of CP Tango, which is located about 30 miles or so south of Seoul. The Olympics? Satellite uplink was from one of our sites. I was a REMF in Yongsan, myself first as Battalion S1, then as XO of the company that provided IT and Message Center service for the big HQ.
Steeplejack
@CaseyL:
The form is not very clear. Some people put in “Balloon-Juice.com,” thinking it’s required.
Gin & Tonic
@dmsilev: Note it said “most” and not “all” – so what can you tell me about those other guys?
TonyG
According to Chris Hedges, Russia was “baited” into invading Ukraine. So, really, Vladimir Putin is the real victim here. (Has the Reverend Hedges always been this bad? I don’t have the energy to investigate that question.)
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: I don’t want the Russians to do well, but I still cringe a bit seeing artillery done badly. They can’t do anything but area suppression work, the missile stuff. If the Ukrainians are even halfway decent, they should be able to do brutal counter-battery fire.
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: Ah, sorry I missed it. We used to shoot our 105’s at Camp St Barbara but that was 20 years before you. We were just south of Munsani at the base of Charlie Block. I was a shithead ammo humper. I did watch the Seoul Olympics and marveled at what they had become in 20 years.
Rob
@Gin & Tonic: That’s really good news!
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hell, we assume old commenters are trolls if we haven’t seen them in a while.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: Fuck you, troll!
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: You’re like me then when I get pissed when someone says “over and out.”
HumboldtBlue
@Gin & Tonic:
Just saw that, good news. Cheryl and other nuke experts have been busy educating folks about the plant as well, there are a few threads floating around now.
dmsilev
@Gin & Tonic: You know how 9 out of 10 dentists recommend flossing regularly? Those other guys are collectively the tenth dentist.
Gin & Tonic
@TonyG: Who the fuck is Chris Hedges and why should I care?
Miss Bianca
@WaterGirl: She was in the HOSPITAL? Somehow I failed to grok that part of her posts.
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Ever say “Out” to a battalion commander? I never did, but I heard another LT do it.
HeleninEire
So I told you last night that my best friend in Dublin, Amy, has COVID. She has something similar to COPD. I told you that she is suffering greatly. She had both ear and throat infections. Well…today she is much better. “I made it to the kitchen today” she said. ? And she texted some unrelated things too.
I am so relieved. I came this close to flying over today.
Raven
Time to rsck
debbie
@TonyG:
No, apparently he’s gone to the dark side.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: Please. The new, polite version is “Make like Russian warship.”
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m shuddering right now just reading about it.
Ksmiami
@TonyG: Fuck Chris Hedges then sideways
debbie
LongHairedWeirdo
@WaterGirl: I thought it was a racist caricature, and maybe something like Kim of NK. You’re right – once you think “Guy Fawkes” it jumps out at you.
Suzanne
@HeleninEire: I’m glad she’s okay!
debbie
@debbie:
From Wikipedia
In his early career, Hedges worked as a freelance war correspondent in Central America for The Christian Science Monitor, NPR, and Dallas Morning News. Hedges began working for The New York Times in 1990.[1] During his fifteen year tenure, Hedges reported from more than fifty countries and served as the TimesMiddle East Bureau Chief and Balkan Bureau Chief during the wars in the former Yugoslavia.
George
@Gin & Tonic: If the link I initially posted returns a 404, try:
https://www.federalregister.gov/
If that doesn’t work, just Google “Federal Register” and then look at today’s FR under the “Foreign Assets Control Office” header.
On February 25, sanctions were enacted against Putin and Lavrov. On February 28, sanctions were enacted against Dmitriev as an individual and a number of Russian organizations. Probably old news at this point but it is interesting to read it published in the FR.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
I haven’t been gone that long!
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: I am trying to stay in practice.
Dan B
@HeleninEire: Good news! Hugs to you both.
Dan B
@Ksmiami: I read most of the Hedges interview. I mostly agree but it is really a hindsight view that contributes nothing of value to where we are today. Useless..
And he doesn’t examine the possibility that Putin has imperialist goals that are likely a stronger motivation for his attack on Ukraine.
Kattails
@Omnes Omnibus: Beau of the fifth column just did a 12-minute YouTube commentary on just how bad of a fuck up this whole thing is in terms of any objectives Putin may have had. One was the intent to show the world that Russia really is a SUPERpower, not just a major power. The huge issue with being so isolated–you have no idea how far behind your entire structure has gotten.
The idea that one guy backed up by no matter how many legions of toadying sycophants can effectively run a country that size is ludicrous.
debbie
@Kattails:
He’s not even a major power. He’s a criminal thug. Nothing more.
The Pale Scot
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ve seen “nym” around probably @ LGM. The vast triple canopy jungle of the 2000s internet has become savannah and wadis now and days
Peale
@TonyG: We said we were sending arms to Ukraine. Its not our fault that Putin felt that their army was just like his and would sell the weapons we sent them on the black market.
Peale
@TonyG: HE had to act now because the window was closing on him invading later.
HeleninEire
@Suzanne: Thank you. I was so worried.
debbie
Also
HeleninEire
@Dan B: Thank you.
West of the Rockies
@dr. luba:
Thank you.
opiejeanne
@dr. luba: He hanged himself. He was Russian born in Ukraine, and was said to be very upset about what Putin was doing to Ukraine.
Ken
Huh. Over 140 comments, and not one snarky remark about Fox News? Shakes my faith in Balloon Juice.
Ruckus
@Professor Bigfoot:
I was holding back because most nuclear power plants are pretty tough targets unless overwhelmingly attacked and that would likely take a nuclear attack. We also know that they can blow up, Chernobyl being an example. Nuclear power has quite a bit going for it but the downsides are extreme, and in my mind not worth the risk. However we like electricity and seemingly would rather spend billions or trillions on nuclear power than on solar and wind generation, along with power storage. Me no understand this concept.
Kattails
@debbie: I would agree, except that it’s a damn big country with nukes. But the discussion was about whether this invasion can be called a success by any metric that would fit the objectives Putin may have had going in. Slow NATO expansion? this expanded it. Weaken and undermine NATO, as lackey TFG tried to do? Show how fearsome the Russian military is?
One thing that had not occurred to me was the objective of uniting greater Russia–think of the refugees that are now seeking protection from the West, and how many ties will be forged by this. It’s just an interesting take on the overall success of the endeavor 7 days in, even if Putin were to “take” Ukraine.
PJ
@TonyG: He’s been a raging nutjob and asshole for a while. About ten years ago, I went to a talk he gave about a book he and Joe Sacco (who is great) wrote. I asked about a line he had in there about all the children in Montclair, NJ and Somewhere, CT being “evil” – clearly he was joking, but just what did he mean by it? He sneered and dismissively replied that he wasn’t joking, and it was clear he thought I was an idiot for thinking otherwise.
Halffasthero
@Steeplejack: Have not posted in years but had to jump in here. This was funny :)
opiejeanne
@Kattails: Are any refugees heading to Russia?
debbie
@Kattails:
I think Putin wants to prove he’s the world’s #1 superpower just as much as he wants to annihilate Ukraine. I also think he’s proven himself wrong.
Kattails
@opiejeanne: not that I’ve heard of! I just can’t fathom Putin’s abuser mindset. You drive a million women and children out of the country, they flee to safety in more Western leaning countries, are sheltered and fed and make friends, all the while sick with worry about their homes and family that stayed behind. IF such a thing happened to Vlad, he himself would hold a grudge from beyond the grave.
Kattails
@debbie: He’s proven himself wrong on virtually every metric. And is utterly oblivious to it. Or his Zaphod Beeblebrox level ego won’t let him admit it. (just dated myself)
debbie
@Kattails:
Or he’s pissed off enough that he will push forward until the invasion does go the way he envisioned. And he won’t stop until someone stops him.
Kattails
@debbie: My original comment was referring back to Omnes O. at #99, who said that Russian gunners just aren’t that good. I tied that to someone outside of BJ who said that one of the things Putin has done is inadvertently expose the many weaknesses of his vaunted military. Doesn’t mean he can’t still take Ukraine; but is unlikely to be able to hold it. And has created a whole subset of other major problems that are entirely against his interests, both stated–which were bullshit–and hidden–which were exposed.
jonas
@debbie: Hedges was once a legit war correspondent and his book War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning is thought-provoking. But he fell in with the TruthDig/Nation/TomDispatch crowd and well, here we are. Poor Putin. Tricked into a war he never wanted by NATO and Ukrainian Nazis.