As many of you are aware, I have soured on this administration, and in general, the Republican leadership. On a daily basis I look at the hardliners in my party, and feel like they are not even speaking the same language as I am. I still, however, do not feel like the Democratic party is my home, but I can say that I am the least hostile to the Democratic party that I have been for years.
And one of the main reasons for that is the Democrats have not, by and large, been doing stupid things. Sure, we have a Howard Dean flare-up here and there, and every now and then we have an outburst from Kennedy or McKinney, but for the most part, the Democrats have silenced their crazies and have been content to sit back and watch the GOP make asses of themselves.
And the strategy has mostly worked, although they have had a heckuva lot of help from the Republicans, who have been committing slow-motion suicide for about 6 years now. When I look at the news, the things that give me agita, for the most part, are things done by Republicans. However, every now and then, I look at certain rhetoric and actions by activists on the left-wing of the Democratic party, and think they are going to blow it for all the Democrats. This is one of those occassions:
Iran signaled its willingness to negotiate over its nuclear program yet refused to submit to the U.N.’s top demand: that Tehran suspend uranium enrichment before the end of August. The story leads today’s New York Times, Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal world-wide newsbox. The Los Angeles Times and USA Today lead with the U.S. Marine Corps announcing that it will begin calling up about 2,500 recently retired Marines for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, the same sort of “back-door draft” that the Army has infamously been using.
You can say a number of things about the call-up of IRR Marines- it is a sign that we are over-extended, it is another indictment against the way this conflict has been handled, it is unfortunate for those who are called up (as well as potentially deadly), it seems unfair, etc. A lot of things can be said, but one thing that can not be said is that it is a draft. It isn’t, it is a known aspect of service in the military, and claiming it is a ‘draft’ is merely an attempt to sieze upon Vietnam Era rhetoric. The activist left may not be able to understand that, and they are largely ignored by me and other sane people anyway, but mainstream Democrats and elected Democrats should be capable of honestly recognizing cheap hyperbole and avoiding its use.
Rather than resorting to the use of loaded terms for cheap rhetorical victories, Democrats would be wise to note that there are a number of reasons why this call-up is a bad thing- not the least of which is that calling up additional troops and dumping them in the region indefinitely, with no change in long-term strategy or short-term tactics, makes no sense whatsoever.
Bombadil
It never fails to amaze me, the trivial shit you deem worthy of posting about.
John S.
Ah, another one of John’s Democrat divinations…
John D.
Wow.
You are attributing motives to the Democratic Party based on this guy?
C’mon, John. This is beneath you. If you follow the link to the Post article, you find this as the only attributed Dem quote:
Which, y’know, strikes me as accurate and fair. If you disagree with the use of that term, blame the guy that wrote it, not one of the two parties.
The Other Steve
You’re absolutely write John! It makes no sense to call a back door draft, an actual draft. Because it’s not really a draft.
What an insightful thoughtful commentary.
The Other Steve
Well he lives in Washington DC. It’s called DC because it’s Democratic City, isn’t it?
Pb
John Cole,
All too often it is in fact a back-door draft (as you can plainly see from the relevant lawsuits), and it doesn’t matter if you like the term, nor does it matter to whom you ascribe the use or origins of the term. Also, the Army’s marketing and recruitment policies are often quite deceptive:
Bombadil
And certain bloggers would be wise to note that this should be the topic of a blog entry, rather than a silly little slap at “Democrats” for their choice of words.
John S.
Cue up the “I’m always right, you guys are willfully misrepresenting me, and go fuck yourselves” tape.
In 3, 2, 1…
Bombadil
I believe it’s a macro.
Davebo
You could also say it’s illegal and in violation of every Marines enlistment contract. Because.. well it is according to the law.
Unless of course we’ve dedided that the mess in Iraq is now a “national emergency”.
Davebo
Oops, “decided”.
But ya know, it’s one newspaper writer spouting off accurate facts that keeps the John Coles of the world thoroughly confused as to what to do come november.
The Other Steve
I think dedided is what they actually did.
slide
another silly post by John… seems to be routine these days… Quite frankly its not even worthy or rebuttal.
Davebo
I don’t know who I hate more!
Silly writers explaining the obvious or the scum! that thinks orange juice is just for breakfast!
However, if you construe this comment to imply that I believe orange juice is just for breakfast you are obviously illiterate or totally mangled what I’ve said here.
The Other Steve
Did you guys see how the Democrats are now purging their members in Alaska? They got rid of the sitting Governor in the Democratic primary because he wanted to build a pipeline and kill all the spotted owls.
The Other Steve
Tang is what the astronauts drink.
neil
And one of the main reasons for that is the Democrats have not, by and large, been doing stupid things.
I’m pretty sure this is the most positive thing John has ever said about Democrats on this site. A major milestone, I think! (No, I’m not being sarcastic.)
John Cole
I am sorry- I forgot to email you and ask if this was worthy of posting.
I am not ‘divining’ anything about the Democrats, I am advising them not to use this type of rhetoric. Look at many of the stories discussing it, and you will find that the word ‘back-door draft’ is being uttered by Senators/Congressmen. It shouldn’t be- they are right about all the things I listed- this is a sign we have no long-term plan, that our troop strength is down, etc. Why add on extra bullshit?
No, I am attributing them to the people who are whispering ‘back-door draft’ (see the 500+ stories that include that phrase), and stating that it would be unwise for the Democrats to adopt that terminology.
Of course, it is much more fun to attack me rather than see my point, even when I spend the majority of the post attacking Republicans and this administration.
ThymeZone
I wouldn’t mind a new line of dialogue in which people talk as if they are Americrats instead of Democrans or Republicrats.
Americrats would only think and act in terms of what they think is best for the country, and not in terms of what might be best for a party.
Speaking as an Americrat, is the back door draft a bad thing? You bet it is. It’s a tacit admission of the failure of the mission over there, putting more of our finest at risk to save face for these numbskulls.
It’s a way to get more forces mired in the thing while trying to avoid having people discover what you are up to.
It’s dishonest, and a lie that won’t go away. Even one more uniformed American stuck in that worthless quagmire is bad for America, and to talk as though we have to walk on eggs as to how we describe is just …. shitty.
neil
By the way, it’s not as if Democratic activists _aren’t_ calling this decision a draft, even if Mr. Kucera isn’t a Democratic activist.
Calling it ‘the last step before a draft’ is far more accurate if you want to get the D-word out there.
Davebo
As fun as it is attacking you (don’t worry, tis just a flesh wound) it’s infinately more productive just to point out that despite having signed an enlistment contract you didn’t really bother to read the fine print.
Then again when I enlisted my recruiter told me that once in the IRR I’d only be called to active duty if we were like, losing a war or something.
So I guess he really knew what was going on after all.
Darrell
JohnC, advising liberals not to spout over the top ignorant anti-war hyperbole is like asking your cat not to sniff it’s own litter box. Ain’t gonna happen. It’s in their DNA to act like this. You saw it with their knee-jerk smears of our troops over the White Phosphorous dustup, you saw it with their BS accusations about Bush’s “failure” to provide “adequate” armor for the humvees, their attempts to run off or keep out military recruiters on campuses, and in another gazillion instances. It’s who they are.
Pb
Have we developed a macro to edit Darrell’s posts to expose their inherent and inevitable hypocrisy yet? You know, blockquote / strike / insert ‘Darrell’ / Fixed? Let’s see here… Ah!
Fixed.
neil
It’s in their DNA… It’s who they are.
Darrell, trying very hard to convince himself that he could never, ever be a Liberal.
Bombadil
I would have told you “no”.
Jeebus, Cole, you just did exactly what John S. predicted. There’s a huge problem with the military’s ability to maintain strength and recruitment numbers, and the military has to resort to the IRR call up. This doesn’t just affect our ability to continue dealing with Iraq, but also with Afghanistan, Iran, the Middle-Eastern-powder-keg-du-jour, as well as the ability to handle any domestic crises that may arise that would require Nation Guard troops be handy. This is a major problem, approaching a crisis — and you focus on the use of the phrase “back-door draft” as your main point? Fuck what you think of “Democratic rhetoric”. If this is where your priorities lie, why should anything you say be taken seriously?
Larv
Could JC maybe explain just what is so wrong with the terminology? The salient aspect of a draft here is that those called up for service are called up unwillingly, that is, they are not volunteers. The IRR is composed of volunteers who have completed their terms of enlistment. Is JC’s contention that once a volunteer, always a volunteer? As far as it being a “known aspect of serving in the military”, well, I’ll stipulate that it’s a known risk, but as Davebo notes, it’s only supposed to happen in times of war and national emergency. I suppose you can make the case that this is such a time, but I don’t think it’s a very strong one. This is not a declared war, nor is it a war of national defense. It’s a voluntary, “preventive” military action against a country which posed very little threat to our country. It may well be an emergency now, but again, it’s an emergency of our own making. The administration f**ked up, overextended the military and embroiled it in conflicts which are sapping its resources and curtailing its recruiting, and are now trying to get around that by calling up the IRR under the fig leaf of a “national emergency”. They’re calling up soldiers who don’t really want to serve (if they did, they presumably would have applied to be recalled to active duty or reenlisted), so what exactly is wrong with referring to it as a “back-door draft”? Is it that it isn’t exactly the same as the Vietnam-era draft? I suspect that’s why they preface it with “back-door”, but maybe that’s just me. Do you really find the practice unobjectionable, John, or do you just wish that those criticizing it would use different rhetoric?
ThymeZone
If you were a real person, and not some piece of shit asswipe of a bad spoof of the right either written by Cole or put up to this by Cole …. I’d suggest that you explain to us how this cockup of a war is to be taken as anything BUT a failure … and why nearly 2/3 of the American people now think essentially that.
But you aren’t a real person, you’re a turd, and I would be wasting my fucking time.
slide
who takes John Cole seriously anymore? Wrong about Iraq. Wrong about Bush. Wrong about the Republicans. Wrong about federal response to Katrina. Wrong about Juan Cole. Wrong about “the Jane Hamsher’s of the left”. Lets face it, Cole is just a shorter version of Darrell.
John S.
LMFAO
Because conservatives avoid over the top pro-war hyperbole like the plague…
Unintentionally funny POTD!
slide
just on the merits of the argument why is it not appropriate to describe the call up as a “back door draft”. These marines have returned to their civilian lives. They are not volunteering to go back to active duty. Yes, they have a contractual obligation to go if they are ordered to, just like all of us civilians have an obligation under the “draft” to go if ordered to. I think the phrase is quite succinct.
VidaLoca
John,
This is true, as far as it goes. But let’s look at the politics behind the strategy and the tactics.
The strategy and the tactics go all the way back to the founding assumptions on which the invasion was based: shock and awe followed by sweets and flowers followed by enough revenue from oil sales to pay for it all. Plus the smoking gun that became the mushroom cloud. That was spring of 2003.
Here we are in fall of 2006. 3-1/2 years, order 2700 dead troops, thousands more injured, tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead and injured later. Strategy and tactics clearly a failure to everyone except Bush and his inner circle. Two options available: get out, or get in deeper.
The first, Bush will not do because in the first instance it would require that he concede the failure of the central premise of his foreign policy. But getting in further would require two things — conscription and taxes — he will not ask of the public because it requires sacrifices which he knows the public will not support because they violate the central assumptions on which the war was sold. He’d lose both houses of Congress, with all the consequences that would entail for his remaining two years in office.
Bush’s solution: do nothing, stay the course, continue with the present failed policy while considering extending it into Iran. Ruin the personnel, ruin the equipment, and let the next person who holds his job pick up the mess.
In that context, politically “back door draft” is exactly the right slogan because it highlights his incompetence, his inability to recognize his colossal failure, and his cowardice in refusing to address the solution to the situation he created. Your point, “it is a known aspect of service in the military”, while true, is a legalism.
ThymeZone
Why do the snakes hate us?
They hate us, in this case, for our air conditioning.
The important thing to remember is that there are snakes in the world who want to kill Americans. Some would say that we should walk away from our committment to keeping the snakes out now, but they’re wrong, period.
As long as I’m president we are going to keep fighting the snakes.
SeesThroughIt
Wait, there’s an Injured Reserve list for the military?
Andrew
Good post, Larv. I was going to make those points, but you beat me to it and did it better than I would have.
ThymeZone
True, and more to the point, anyone who helped pimp this war or who helped defend its implementation in the face of its disastrous shortcomings, or who helped defend the idiots who got us into this fucking mess, is in a poor position to (a) lecture the rest of us about what terminology to use, and (b) act pissy when we don’t appear grateful for being lectured.
Andrew
I’ve got an idea:
Just pass a law preventing NFL and college football from being played any week that more than 100 civilians die in Iraq.
I think we would solve the entire Middle East crisis in two weeks.
Bombadil
And Cole would be camping out with Cindy Sheehan in Crawford.
ThymeZone
No doubt it would. All we need is governments in the world who have an actual interest in “solving the entire Middle East crisis.” At all, ever. Starting with the United States, and Israel.
When perpetual war is your goal, and your stated objective, why would you entertain ideas that might end it?
John S.
What ever would the military-industrial complex do if there were peace?
Let’s face it, the global economy isn’t based on the perpetuation of peace. If it were, we would have a lot more scientific advances that actually benefit humanity.
Pb
POTD!
Andrew Reeves
Argh. To break this down really simply, every Marine who enlists signs a contract for eight years. Everyone.
A Marine serves four, five, or six years of active duty. Both the time between when he signs the enlistment and when he leaves for boot camp as well as the time after he finishes his active duty component count for the remaining eight years.
He doesn’t get a discharge until two, three or four years later. Everyone who signs a contract can clearly read that it says “8 years.” IRR call ups aren’t trickery, and they’re not a draft. They’re part of the enlistment contract.
A Marine who “unwillingly” goes back in for a year is unwilling in the same sense that a Marine who is ordered on a deployment he does not want to go on is. It’s a bitch, but it’s no more compulsion than the enforcement of the rest of the contract is.
mrmobi
Setting aside all the serious reasons why this back-door draft is necessary, let’s go ahead and talk about language, shall we?
Right now, Mr. Cole, all we insane lefties have got is “cheap hyperbole.” No power, locked out of even a role as the loyal opposition, since not agreeing with Chimpy McFlightSuit makes you a traitor. At least until the mid-term elections. I sympathize, John. It must stress you out something awful, with Dean spouting off. He is such an extremist. So you want us to play nice, right? One party rule in force, Rove out there saying we Dems want to give “counseling” to the terrorists and basically calling anyone who disagrees with the government a traitor. But we should not use bad language. We should play nice. All arguments should be well-reasoned and insightful. Please. tell. me. you. are. joking.
John, I’ve been voting since 1968 (always Democrat, as it turns out), but I must confess that I’ve never thought of the party as a “home.” I think of it as more of a bunch of fucking crooks (and some decent folks) whose job it is to represent me and my interests (kind of). If you are looking for a political party to feel like “home” you are in for some repeated and deep disappointments. You are not comfortable with us, eh. Democrats are never going to be like George Will. We’re Democrats, we don’t belong to an organized party. I know you’ve said you want to send the Republican party to the woodshed, but I don’t think any administration will ever be able to rival the record of incompetence and corruption of Mr. McFlightSuit’s, go ahead, vote Republican.
I think what galls me about this post of yours is how mild an example you provide. Back-door draft is your hyperbole?
How about this: I think is is not hyperbolic to say that the ruling Republican government represents a real threat to the continued existence of the American experiment, and American democracy. Is that good enough for you? Oh, and Cindy Sheehan is cool.
John D.
John, I can’t reconcile what you said here, with what you said in the post.
How is this *not* attributing that to an “activist on the left-wing of the Democratic Party”? Seriously? That’s why I asked the question I did.
I’m not attacking you. I’m saying that I think this kind of rhetorical tactic is beneath you.
Calling this a “back-door draft” is not necessarily a strategic error. A draft is an involuntary call to military service. The IRR (at least when I was in the Army) is a volunteer service, inasmuch as you agree to enter the IRR for a period post-active duty (usually enough to round out an 8 year term for Active+Guard+IRR), but you have been discharged fully from the military. So yes, it is not a draft in the technical sense.
Most people don’t see that, though. They see soldiers being called back to service *after they have been discharged and gotten on with their lives.* To them, it sure as hell feels like a draft, in the “involuntary call to service” sense, hence the “back-door” portion of the term. How is that rhetoric a loser politically?
chopper
now you’re backpedaling.
you cited a quote from a DC freelance writer, so far as we know unaffiliated with the democratic party, claiming that it was an example of “one of those occasions” where the activists in the democratic party blow it. how is this writer’s use of the term “back-door draft” in any way representative of so-called ‘activists on the left-wing of the Democratic party’?
then you turn around saying that all you merely said was that the dems shouldn’t adopt this kind of language.
no wonder this blog is all spoofs and hysterics these days.
Ancient Purple
I wonder if anyone realizes that this was the final nail in the coffin of making sure that our all-volunteer military will now be hamstrung for at least a full generation.
Why would anyone believe anything that is written in those contracts?
John D.
Interesting.
I was in the US Army and received my DD214 with a separation date of when I actually left the Army *when* I left the Army, not 4 years later. I had no idea that the Marines did it differently.
John S.
“I’m always right, you guys are willfully misrepresenting me, and go fuck yourselves” – Round 2.
Punchy
They’re recalling 60+ year old Marines. Sixty fucking years old. Holy fuck….
Story’s here
Pb
You know, now that I think about it, the phrase ‘back-door draft’ is probably the weakest and most pathetic rhetoric that should ever be used when talking about this war. It’s not like we’re calling Republicans terrorists or al-Qaeda sympathizers here.
Generally what we’re talking about with the phrase ‘back-door draft’ are essentially contract disputes and misleading advertising (as my earlier post mentioned). Maybe what we should be talking about is Americans–mostly young men, but some women, and some as old as 60–being blown up in a foreign land for no good reason, no clear purpose, no military objective, for longer than America fought in World War II now, and they’re *still* chucking bodies over there. We should be talking about the injured soldiers, who are left in comas, or missing limbs, or are suffering from other disorders or ailments now. We should be talking about the imprisoned, and about the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians. We should be talking about the soldiers who have been stiffed, abandoned by their own government and stuck with the bill. We should be having some Congressional hearings, and some accountability.
In short, we should be able to come up with something a lot harsher than ‘back-door draft’ to describe the situation, and rightly so. It’s a godforsaken intentional mendacious unjust clusterfuck of an unnecessary and possibly unlawful war of choice. If all the Democrats can come up with is ‘back-door draft’, then they seriously need to ramp it up.
Davebo
John D.
I too recieved my DD214 upon separation from active duty. But I was aware that I could be recalled to active duty for four more years in the event of a war or national emergency.
So apparantly all that talk about Mishun Akomplished was just silliness after all.
But don’t expect John to address this tidbit.
Pb
Punchy,
Tune in next year, when they’re ‘forced’ to call up Rudy from Survivor… but they don’t need a draft, oh no…
ThymeZone
I always figured that Darrell would take “Back door draft” to mean that he had his pants down.
Bombadil
Nah, it’s much easier to pick out a single phrase from an article by a free-lancer, attribute it to the entire Democratic Party, and be all “tut-tut” and “tsk-tsk” and school-marmish about what those silly wild-eyed “followers of Dean” are saying. Talking about anything of substance will be left to Tim and Tom.
Davebo
PB
Excellent link. And it’s pretty ironic when you think about it.
We’ll dun wounded soldiers for repayment of incorrect pay or damaged/lossed equipment, but when a government contractor is found to have committed fraud against US taxpayers the courts throw out the case because it can’t be proven that the Coalition Provisional Authority is a part of the US government.
Talk about fucked up priorities.
The Other Steve
You’re absolutely right, John!
Democrats are just playing politics by calling things like they are.
Damn them! They should know better.
Pb
Davebo,
The contractors and the huge amounts of cash (literally billions of dollars in $100 bills!) flown into Iraq with no oversight is another story that amazes me. That needs to get into a documentary or something, because apparently that’s what it would take for it to really get widely reported–someone with a camera, following around a huge pallet of $100 bills from the federal reserve bank, onto the airplane, into the backpacks, and then off to god knows where.
The Other Steve
Darrell is absolutely correct.
Do you remember back in December of 2003 after Hussein was captured in a spider hole, that rat bastard Howard Dean dared… DARED BY GOD… to claim it doesn’t matter, it’s not going to make the US safer.
Incredible! Absolutely incredible!
Now granted, Hussein’s capture hasn’t seemed to make a dent in the whole level of violence in Iraq or well anything. So Dean turns out to have been right. But it doesn’t matter. It was a truth that SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SPOKEN OUTLOUD!
The truth isn’t something you just go around willy nilly bandying about like it’s worthwhile. It needs to be fed and nutured and given a proper burial.
Tsulagi
I’m not going to piss and moan about whether the involuntary recall of Marines constitutes a back-door draft or whether the characterization of it as such smears one political party or another.
What John C. correctly points out is that this recall makes no sense given no change in strategy and/or tactics. Actually, it’s far worse than “no sense.” As former Marine Gen. Zinni, a guy with a lot of experience in the ME, said of Iraq: “You don’t stay the course if the course is over Niagara Falls.”
Iraq is done. Over a year ago Casey said before Congress there isn’t a military solution to this war. There really isn’t anything the military can do. Their job is nation destruction, not nation building. Through administration retardocon incompetence beyond measure, the only thing the ground troops are now doing is delaying the next Saddam or religious council rising from the mess taking over a big chunk of the existing country. The Kurds are probably content to watch those suckers down south going after each other. They’ve already got theirs.
So now these Marines are added solely for the continuing purpose of keeping this fuckup from having an exclamation point during little Bush’s presidency. Leave it to the next president. That way the retarded spoiled brat can characteristically point away from himself whining “Not my fault.” You just know Osama and plenty in Iran go ass up five times a day praying for Allah to keep little Bush safe.
chopper
maybe a disapproving cluck?
The Other Steve
How dare you! How dare you accuse our brave contractors of war profiteering!
It’s not their fault they are ripping off the American tax payers of their hard earned dollars. They didn’t ask for this job, it just landed at their feet and they were in the right place at the right time to profit from it. They had to do it. God told them so.
Davebo
PB,
What’s a lousy 8 billion dollars? Remember, Freedom isn’t Free.
The Other Steve
Maybe so, but you need to look at the bright side.
There are no abortions in Iraq, and no stem cell research either. And nobody is worrying about evolution. And women know their place in the fabric of society, not like here where the uppity try to demand equal pay for equal work.
John D.
John,
Could you point out which one of those stories has that?
I just went through 60 of the stories provided by your 500+ link (the first two pages of links). 65% or so were quotes of the LA Times referring to “a policy criticized as a ‘back-door draft”, without saying *who* was criticizing. The rest did not actually have the words “back-door draft” in them. So, where are the Senators/Congressmen saying this?
Zifnab
I just want to know what suitable rhetorical strategies the Democratic party are allowed to employee? If “back door draft” is off the table, exactly what are we allowed to refer to it as? The anti-cut-and-run policy of this administration? The glorious-return-to-Iraq technique? Military-Laziness-Stop-Loss?
The author of “Talking Right” was on the Colbert Report the other day, and he mentioned some of the common phrases employeed by the right wing noise machine – “cut and run”, “support our troops”, and whatnot – so I see where you’re coming from, John. But part of politics is witty catch-phrases that working people will respond to. It seems you’ve applauded the Democrats for sitting down and letting the Republicans dig their own graves at first, then but it really sounds like you just don’t like hearing Democrats talk.
Bombadil
Are you referring to Cole, or Darrell?
Punchy
Mr. Cole defines “back-door draft” as the wind that blows thru the 6 x 3.5 foot opening in the rear of his house.
Otherwise, it’s NOT a draft, dammit. The Republicans said so.
Tom in Texas
Don’t worry TOS, you can just follow Forbes suggestion and just never marry a woman with an independent thought.
Andrew
How about, instead of a “back door draft,” we simply call it “fucking over our soldiers yet again by Republicans.”
Josh
Just $0.02 from the guy who wrote the offending sentence. First, I am not a Democrat. Second, I understand how the IRR works. The bottom line is, the USMC’s move means that guys (and girls) who don’t want to go to war any more are going to have to go. Yes, it’s part of their contract. I signed up for the Selective Service when I turned 18. Does that mean if I get called up it won’t be a draft? It is, after all, a sort of contract that I agreed to. Anyway, glad to know everyone’s reading.
Bombadil
Tut-tut and tsk-tsk, Andrew. Democrats will never get any respect if they use such unseemly rhetoric. Such cheap hyperbole only offends the delicate sensibilities of people.
Davebo
Tom,
If Forbes is insisting that a “career girl” is any women working outside the home earning 30k or more per year then I’ve gotta redefine my concept of a “Sugar Momma”.
Davebo
Remember, you can’t support the troops if you allow the troops to get discharges at the end of their End Of Active Service.
John S.
Slightly off topic…
Someone is having fun over at Google.
Try doing a search for the word “failure”.
The result is rather amusing.
Darrell
Well, seems Dem Presidential candidate John “reporting for duty” Kerry referred to this practice as a “back door” draft to score cheap political points with leftist whackjobs. I believe Charles Rangel has said the same thing. And remember when lowlife Dems in SC sent out the dishonest-as-hell scaremongering letter to whip up support for party over country?
Darrell
Please keep up the rhetoric, as I want average American voters to see how extremist you whackjobs truly are. Scream “no blood for oil” and “Bush is a murderer” and the rest of it. You’ll be speaking truth to power. Now get to it!
John S.
Speaking of REAL over the top rhetoric…
Zifnab posted this link in another thread:
http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=6508
Too bad this ij just business as usual for the GOP.
neil
I was just thinking about that, Darrell, because when I searched on google news _today_ for “backdoor draft”, there were no politicians using the phrase.
Something that should probably make John Cole happy.
Andrew
Crap, you’re right.
How about, instead of a “back door draft,” we simply call it “Freedomizing our soldiers in the flag pole hole (starring Ken Mehlman and Jonah Goldberg)”
John S.
That ranks right up there with when lowlife Repugs sent out a dishonest-as-hell scaremongering letter warning that the Demoncrats were gonna STEAL THEIR BIBLES to whip up support for
godparty over country.The Disenfranchised Voter
Nice post John.
I shall heed your point. All too often it is inflammable language such as “back door draft” or “cut and run” that infuriates and thus prevents a real debate from happening.
Some may call the post trivial, but I view it as helpful.
John D.
Darrell, try to keep up.
We are discussing a current news story, specifically, the IRR callup announced recently. Your John Kerry link is from 2004, and thus predates this event by a couple of years. Your other link is *also* from 2004, and thus predates this event by a couple of years. I asked John a serious question. I’d like to know where I can find Senators/Congressmen referring to this in this manner. If you have a link, I’d like to see it. If not, quit dropping the signal-to-noise ratio in your usual fashion.
Thanks.
Punchy
No offense, but this has been this way for at least 1.5 years (the time I was made aware of it…coulda been set like this earlier than that….)
Isn’t that called a Google Bomb, or sumpin?
Ancient Purple
Facts have a well-known liberal bias.
neil
Here’s a Google News link to all articles containing the words “backdoor draft” or “back door draft”. There are none quoting any politicians… YET!
ThymeZone
AFAIC, the continued presence of Darrell here and the constant daily dose of this shit, in the complete absence of anything else from him, is an indication to me that the people running this thing have no respect for the audience and the commentariat whatsoever.
Is it not within the realm of feasability to at least ask this fucking crap artist to stop the daily stream of this nonsense?
And to save anybody the trouble of changing to subject to me, let me remind you that I am on record here as saying that I will STOP POSTING HERE if that’s what’s required to get Darrell off this blog. I figure it’s the best contribution to this place I could ever make.
chopper
well, that settles it then. way to go, cole.
ThymeZone
The same thing basically when you google “liar.”
Ancient Purple
I wonder if John, Tim or Tom have a “Crash and Burn” tag they can add to this post.
Davebo
Ancient
If not John can always file it under “Republican Stupidity” since he reaffirms his party membership in the post itself.
sglover
Add me to the list of those critical of the original post. First of all, whether one likes Howard Dean or not, it’s not like he’s a latter-day Eugene Debs or Abbie Hoffman. Dean’s about as “radical” as what used to be known as a Rockefeller Republican. Cole’s breezy dismissal of “flare-up[s]” doesn’t exactly establish his own discernment.
Then, as lots of comments have pointed out, quibbling over a phrase like “back-door craft” suggests that Cole is somebody determined to ignore the forest he’s in, and focus on the pointy new toothpick he found by the side of the trail. True, as a group, Dems haven’t done a stellar job of forming a coherent critique of Republican approaches to foreign and military policy. They’ve too often been mealy-mouthed and indecisive. (Though evidently those who try to get beyond that, like Dean, offend Cole.)
On the other hand, the Dems haven’t poured their best efforts into designing a well-oiled, seamless disinformation machine, which is pretty all that “governance” seems to be, in contemporary Republican thinking. God knows they have no interest in basic managerial competence, or worrying about consequences, or even forming elementary questions. The Republicans have got so good at spreading bullshit that now they’re in the terminal stage of bullshittery — the point where you actually start believing your own bullshit, act on it, and then get taught a very painful lesson by external reality. In just five short years we’ve seen how costly and wrongheaded that style of “leadership” is. But Cole is miffed that opposition isn’t parsing its doubts quite correctly.
Anyway, it’s been a useful eye-opener. I doubt I’ll be bothering with this site much any more.
The Other Steve
HOW DARE THEY! HOW DARE THEY!
When Individual Ready Reserves are called back to active duty, and soldiers are refused discharge papers because of stop-gap, that is NOT A DRAFT!
Nowhere does the army call these measures a DRAFT. So how DARE the DemocRATs call this a DRAFT! Or even a Backdoor Draft, or a “It basically means a Draft, you fucktard”. How dare they!
I am so thankful that Darrell and John cleared this up for us all. From now on I expect Democrats to behave in a more Politically Correct manner.
The Other Steve
Oh come on. Don’t pay any attention to Cole ranting and raving. It’s not like anybody else here does. :-)
Tsulagi
He’s well represented under “idiot” too. Kind of a catchy tune, but a little harsh on the old Bush.
The Other Steve
What should I make of this?)
I’m confused. This is from the late Colonel David Hackworth.
Could it really be a backdoor draft after all? Is John wrong?
I’m so confused! Someone tell me how I should think.
ThymeZone
Forbes.
Apparently, this guy is a regular Bill Bennett.
ThymeZone
Whoops, sorry. Wrong thread.
ThymeZone
What a real article about the war might look like. If there were a market for real articles, I mean.
Courtesy MSNBC
Pooh
I think y’all need to cut JC a little slack on this one – he’s saying “look, this is the kind of stuff that turns me off.” And he explains why it does so while also fully recognizing that the underlying program is a bad thing – you can disagree with the opinion, but this is hardly running around yelling “Defeatocrats!”
And really, it’s pretty silly of us to act surprised that JC is sometimes more interested in the theatrical aspects of politics than the substantive – I think that’s been well established. And, I might add, hardly makes him unique.
John S.
Boy, they really are having fun oer at Google.
ThymeZone
Silly to act surprised?
Okay, how about acting annoyed? Is that silly?
And how silly is it to make a comment like that at all?
Jesus. Darrell at one extreme, and the Silly Police at the other. What’s next? Notes from John’s mom?
jg
And once again rather than discussing an issue we’re discussing words that were used by one side to describe the issue.
Pooh
It’s silly how outraged you become over something both insubstantial and fully expected.
– Silly-Sgt. Pooh
Ancient Purple
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Ancient Purple
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jaime
Are you kidding, that’s how he intends to avoid military service if the fit hits the shan.
Pb
ThymeZone,
Wow, just the introduction to that article was awesome, the whole thing was amazing. That should be required reading for our government–is it too late to add it to their summer reading list?
Pooh,
But of all the things to latch onto in this story, he picked this bullshit?! Total WTF from me.
Incidentally, you know who John Cole’s politics and attitude reminds me of? Tucker Carlson. Think about it–have you ever seen those two in the same room?
Jon H
John writes: “I still, however, do not feel like the Democratic party is my home, but I can say that I am the least hostile to the Democratic party that I have been for years.”
Then don’t think of the Dems as your home. That’s not really necessary. Think of yourself like one of the Katrina refugee from New Orleans living in Houston.
The Democratic party isn’t your home, they’re just your refuge until the damage done by Hurricane Dubya has been repaired.
Beej
John Cole,
I’m sorry, but I probably won’t be visiting here much anymore. I originally started coming to balloon juice because I found your comments interesting, reasoned, and insightful even if I didn’t always agree with them. I still see those same qualities in your comments, John. Back then most of your commenters more or less hewed the same line and tried to make reasoned, interesting arguments. They didn’t consider attacking the people they disagreed with to be an argument.
Unfortunately, that all has changed, so I’m going to have to try to find somewhere else to read stimulating, reasoned opinions. I’ve really had all I can take of The Other Steve and Thymzone.
Bye now.
ThymeZone
Well, the joke’s on you. We’re the same person.
And you misspelled my handle.
Pb
Yeah, I know just what you mean. But then Darrell came along, right?
Oh, I see–you’d rather have *more* Darrells? Then go check out the cock-slapping Wisdom of Jeff Goldstein or something, I’m sure you’ll fit right in!
The Disenfranchised Voter
I’ve been thinking about this all day and I ended up agreeing with Pooh.
You guys need to chill the fuck out. John is helping us out by letting us know the rhetoric that turns off moderate Republicans.
We need people like John in this election year. If all it takes is for us to have valid criticisms instead of exageratted rhetoric then so be it.
We have numerous ways to criticize this current Administration. Look at the record for goodness sake. We do not need–and more importantly, as John has showed, we should steer away from–sound bites.
I, for one, applaud John’s honesty and willingness to reach out and communicate about the so-called “trivial” things that bother him.
Thank you John. This post is one that I will remember.
RonB
I’m going to come to John’s defense on this one. The distinction between IRR service and anything resembling a draft is more than subtle. There’s nothing wrong with making this point, and let’s all remember, swings like John are the people that need to be swung, so I agree with TDV and Pooh that it’s instructive to see what type of rhetoric turns them off from voting Democrat. It’s the difference between his protest vote and staying home, so Im all for listening up.
Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows full well their term of service is 8 years.It is hardly hidden in the fine print and there is no qualifier to the nature of the call up that prevents them from being called.
RonB
Exactly, Andrew. One other reason I don’t find it hard to agree with John is that this seems to be misunderstood in more than a few places in the blogosphere. John is ex-military, I’m active, and I suspect Andrew is too and that is perhaps why we are er, acutely aware of the nature of the IRR. I’m in no way saying that the rest of you haven’t served or that you are not informed, it’s just that first hand experience of signing the contract is perhaps why we take a bit of issue with calling this some sort of draft. It fucking sucks and I hate this goddamn war, I hate Bush and all the intellects who enabled him to get us into this mess, but as they say, “no one forced us to sign”. Shit, I’m just glad I stayed active for another four so I don’t have to serve in the IRR when I get out in 2008.
RonB
OS, stop loss and the IRR are two totally different things. Say you’re in Iraq and your term of service is about to expire, but your MOS is in critical shortage. The services can then extend your enlistment until the need is gone. If you’re in the IRR, you are out of the service, but contractually obligated to be called up for the same reason. To be sure, getting called up from the IRR certainly resembles a “draft” more than a stop loss does. Hack was a great soldier advocate, and out of respect for him and his perspective I will not challenge his use of the term “backdoor draft”, but he knows full well that’s not what it is. Oh well.
John, if you would, what do you think of Hack calling stop loss a backdoor draft?
ThymeZone
Uh, no.
ThymeZone
You guys act as if the enlistment agreement settles this issue.
It doesn’t. The people, who aren’t in the military, but whose families, jobs, businesses and lives are profoundly affected by these things, and who are smarting from being lied to about the prospects for this war by the incompetant government, have a right to call the callups and goddamned thing they want to call it. And in a time of massive government misrepresentation and lies and spin and manipulation, for you people to waste our time and your bandwidth talking about this as if it were just a matter of bureaucrfatic formality is fucking embarassing and ridiculous.
Thus, the tone of this thread, in case you hadn’t figured that out.
ThymeZone
“any goddamned thing”
RonB
Never said otherwise. And I do acknowledge the triviality of this employment of rhetoric against the backdrop of outright lies, misdirection and misinformation of GB et al, and his supporters- so I see why this posts annoys you. If I had that in mind when I read it, I’m sure Id’ve reacted that way too.
ThymeZone
No, your post doesn’t annoy me. John’s attitude annoys me.
John is a guy with very liberal views, but he doesn’t like liberals and hates to appear uncool to his army buddies.
Well, guess what, that’s fine. I don’t have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the inability to stand back from that and recognize the true nature of the dynamics on this blog. The boisterous and loudmouthed lefties here, like me, really like John and appreciate most of what he does. But THE COUNTRY IS IN THE SHITTER and world is being dragged into the shitter right now, and it’s time to step up to the plate.
Sure, all your army buddies know what the IRR really is. But that’s not the issue that matters. What matters is that it’s being used by the lying turds in Washington to continue to fuck us over. And fuck Iraq over.
Yet another way for the turds in suits to thank us for letting them have the government for eight years.
Well, guess what. There’s a midterm election in ten weeks and it’s time to stand up for the really important things. Not show off how well you can read your enlistment package.
Davebo
RonB
What you fail to explain is how, under current law, the call up of IRR is legal.
VidaLoca
RonB,
I take your point that you’re accepting responsibility for volunteering. No whingeing, no shifting of blame. An honorable position.
I come back to the fact, however, that the Commander-in-Chief is essentially trying to have his war and eat it too: he refuses to back away from the disasterous consequences of his failed policy and admit defeat, but at the same time he refuses to risk political destruction by committing the forces and raising the taxes to win. Instead, he says in so many words that he’s going to do nothing in the remainder of his administration to solve the problem he’s created; he will “stay the course” and let the next person pick up the mess. Complete abdication of responsibility. A completely dishonorable position.
Fact remains, however, that he still needs troops. He can’t get enough volunteers fast enough, he won’t institute a draft; instead — he re-cycles you guys. Why? For the reason that underlies a lot of his decisions: because he can. He either doesn’t care about the consequences of what he might do, or considers the consequences to himself more important than the consequences to the people who serve under him, to the country he supposedly serves.
I can understand your refusal to embrace the term “back-door draft” if you believe that by doing so you compromise a personal responsibility that you’d prefer to assume. I can understand the distinction you’re making between IRR and stop-loss (though it does seem to me to be a distinction that doesn’t make a difference in this discussion as it turns mainly on whether a person is currently in-service or not). It still seems to me though, that looking at it in the broadest political and policy context, a “back-door draft” is exactly what this is.
Nobody forced you to sign — but you didn’t sign up to be used by a coward who can’t face the consequences of his decisions. If you wouldn’t call this a “back-door draft” — what would you call it?
RonB
Oh, I meant John’s original post.
Oh, since it’s absent a declaration of war? I just want to make sure that’s what you mean.
RonB
Oh, sure, insofar as I knew I was obligated for eight. I whine all the time otherwise.
As to my attitude towards George…so I have a complete cocksucker for a boss. Like THAT’S never happened.
I love being enlisted so I can say shit like that. I cant imagine what it must be like to be an officer right now and bite down every time someone asks your opinion of the Prez.
Eh, maybe I was just getting wonky because it’s my job. I saw the IRR misrepresented on another site before I came to this one, so when I saw some of the misconceptions of it here I couldn’t shut up. Sorry.
ThymeZone
I hope that it’s understood that criticism of the view here is not criticism of the military.
In fact, this callup can be viewed as positive for the people in uniform if it provides needed relief, I’m sure.
It is not necessary to discount the military reality here in order to bash the civilian ineptitude that brought it about. I am especially sensitive the way in which some of the civilian authority tries to hide behind “support of the troops” to cover its stupidity.
The troops are all heroes. The idiots in suits who have authority over them are the ones who deserve the scorn and ridicule.
VidaLoca
RonB,
Well, yeah — but this is qualitiatively worse. This one’ll get you killed to protect his ego, and then he’ll blow off your funeral.
But you (and John) may have a valid point even though I would frame the issue differently. Being a civilian, I speak from a broad base of ignorance of things military. Bottom line is, it seems to me you guys are getting the shaft — you signed up to protect the country, not to protect your boss’ narcissistic delusional self-image. You’re right, it does our credibility no good to use terms incorrectly — still it seems like this screw-the-troops-to-save-the-leader crap should be condemned; how best to frame it?