Looks like the Gaza pull-out is already paying off:
Thousands of triumphant Palestinians poured into abandoned Jewish settlements early Monday, setting empty synagogues on fire and shooting in the air, as the last Israeli soldier rolled out of the Gaza Strip, completing the Israeli pullout from the territory after a 38-year presence.
Palestinian police stood by helplessly as gunmen raised flags of terrorist groups in the settlements and crowds smashed what was left in the ruins or walked off with doors, window frames, toilets, and scrap metal. Initial plans by Palestinian police to bar the crowds from the settlements for the first few hours quickly disintegrated, illustrating the weakness of the Palestinian security forces and concerns about growing chaos after Israel’s departure.
Gaza’s night sky turned orange as fires roared across the settlements. Women ululated, teens set off fireworks and crowds chanted “God is great”.
Of course, it isn’t as simple as we would all like, but this sort of report is just depressing.
Bob
Did the French tear down the symbols of Nazi occupation when the Germans retreated in WWII? Did the Latvians celebrate similarly when they got their independence from the Russians?
Attacking abandoned structures is wrong? I’m sure in the hills of West Virginia all original Native American settlements have been cherished and preserved in perpetuity by the European settlers.
Oh, and they ululate, too! No comments here about the hordes of swarthy menfolk, though.
And as far as the strength of the Palestinian authority, that’s what Israel wants–disorganized and weak.
Nudnik
Israel’s presence in Gaza had absolutely nothing in common with the Nazi presence in Poland or Soviet presence in Latvia. To make such comparisons is pure idiocy, that a course in history might help to dispel.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if Israelis had torched a couple of mosques after some of the most brutal suicide bombings.
Stormy70
Like I’ve said before, the Palestinian bloodbath will now commence. It has already started, and it will get worse. Then the moderates will hopefully be able to pick up the pieces. I am not optimistic. Plus, Egypt has already shot Palestinians trying to cross their border. They are brothers as long as they stay on their side of the border.
Stormy70
Bob, your anti-semitism is showing again. Try to keep it hidden a little better next time. What are your thoughts about the Pals attacking the Christian village the other day? The Christians were there before the Muslims, but I’m sure you will find a way to blame it on the J-E-W-S.
Krista
Do you think the chaos will get worse? I think right now, they’re just feeling so triumphant that it’s overwhelming any reason. Yeah, there will be some people who will continue to want to be lawless, but I think the majority of Palestinians will just want to get settled and get on with their lives, and hopefully the Palestinian police will be able to deal with the remaining holdouts.
Gadzooks
Come on Bob.
That isn’t even a a valid comparison.
It is a low blow to the Israeli people.
TallDave
Have people forgotten that the Pals’ primary raison d’etre, as far as the despots in Damascus and Tehran that fund their leaders are concerned, is to wage a proxy war against Israel?
Soon the rockets will come arcing into Israel again. Nothing has changed. The PA lacks the will, the desire, the popular support, and the power to change that.
Vlad
I’m just glad all the Jews were gone before the shooting guns and the tearing down and the mass chaos. It could’ve been ugly if Sharon had decided not to forcibly evacuate settlers who were reluctant to leave.
Defense Guy
Krista
Much worse. Hamas is already using this pullout as a sign that the suicide bombings were effective. There have already been rocket attacks into Israel from this newly abandoned land.
The warlords are in charge in the Pali territories and they want only the destruction of every last Jew in Israel.
rayabacus
It’s always the JOOOOOOOOS!
The conventional wisdom going around now is that they are solely responsible for the flooding in NOLA.
The Levys failed.
EZSmirkzz
Apparently you missed this story, from Ha’aretz;
Interestingly the Israeli cabinet voted not to demolish the synagogues after receiving pressure from Israeli and American Rabboni, having previously voted to demolish them.
Northman
The PA is outgunned by Hamas and such organizations. Given that the Isreali army, with all of its huge advantages, admitted it could not stop rockets from Gaza, why do people persist in pretending the PA could do so if they really wanted to?
Talldave is at least partially right. The PA does not have the popular support or the power to stop Hamas, and I don’t see them being able to aquire them any time soon.
Geek, Esq.
Well, one of three things were going to happen, considering that they would not be used as synogogues any longer:
1) PA tears the structures down;
2) Palestinian crowds tear structures down;
3) Buildings converted to governmental buildings or, much more likely, into mosques
Is there ANY likely scenario that wouldn’t offend the living daylights out of the conservatives back here in the US of A?
Defense Guy
A respectful dismantling, leaving them alone so as to respect the right of other religions to exist, or perhaps just a conversion into another house of worship. You can’t be defending the burning of a house of G-d can you?
Krista
Interesting..
Evidently, most of them have just been shopping or visiting relatives. They think that some weapons may have changed hands, but don’t have any numbers.
Theseus
And THAT of course justifies the burning of synagogues, right? Hmmm, I can’t wait to see what they do with the West Bank. I can’t believe Bibi Netanyahu of all people might be proven right…
EZSmirkzz
Theseus,
Take off the blinders and boxing gloves. The Israeli’s knew full well that the synagogues would be burnt, and left them there for what reason?
Seems to me like my remark was about the looting by Israelis, in reference to John’s post about Palestinian looting. I merely pointed out that looters, as per the AP I suppose, are in the eyes of the beholder.
If one wishes to post up articles from the Israeli Insider site, which is fine by me, then one ought to have enough sense to also look for the other side of an argument before stating one’s concurring opinion, which is by definition ill informed and one sided.
Unlike many others, I sincerely wish to see both Israel and the Palestinians find a road to peace, which is not going to found by presenting half truths and religious proclivities into the discussion.
The Israeli cabinet knew full well those synagogues would be burned and desecrated previous to the first vote to demolish, and in the subsequent vote not to demolish. Many will argue that they should not have been built on stolen lands in the first place, while others will argue that it belongs to greater Israel, yet that does not excuse the cabinet from facing the reality that they would be burned down. They had a choice, and the Insider reported the results of that choice.
These people will only find peace when it ceases to be a game of political one upmanship. Until then, the slaughter will continue, as will the wrath of God that is upon them both to this day. As long as the religious leaders intefere with the peace process, there will be no peace.
slightlybad
EZSmirkzz is right in a sense. The Israelis left the synagogues standing because they knew the PA would be unable to control the crowds and they would be destroyed. This was a prime opportunity for the PA to show that they could control the Palestinian population and for the Palestinians to prove that the world could expect civil behavior from them. However, you know what they say about the Palestinians: they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. They’re their own worst enemies.
Stormy70
They are also tearing apart the greenhouses Israel left standing. The International Community (a joke!) asked them to leave them up for the Palestnian people to use. Now they are being looted along with everything they can get their hands on. The bloodbath will be ramping up soon.
goonie bird
Look how much the gaza pull out resembles the evacuation of New Orleans i mean their forcing the citizens out of their homes to appease the radicals and the dirty deals of politicians
ThirdGorchBro
From the NYT article on the takeover:
Atop the building, in the dim smoky moment before dawn, one could see a huge green flag of Hamas, with a smaller Palestinian flag flying below it.
A few minutes later, a large black flag of Islamic Jihad was flying just under the Hamas flag, above the Palestinian one.
Five minutes later, the Palestinian flag had been taken down altogether.
Somebody upthread mentioned the impending Palestinian civil war. Right now, Hamas is the likely victor, and that does not bode well for peace in the Middle East.
Maybe the Palestinian Michael Collins is out there somewhere in the ranks of Hamas or PIJ commanders, but I doubt it.
Geek, Esq.
Oh man, if they had converted those synagogues into mosques, the squeals from the Islamaphobes would have been even louder and more shrill. I mean, these people lost their minds because of a semi-circle being incorporated into the Flight 93 memorial because it looked like a crescent.
MattD
Hmmmm. Looting and setting fire to synagogues = celebration of feedom. Siezing control of the Church of the Nativity, using the chappel as a staging area to fire against Israeli troops and destroying the religious artifacts inside the Church = resistance to oppression. “Mishandling” a copy the Koran = the utmost disrespect to Islam and an international scandal. No double-standard there; we’re all “Islamohpbes.” Right.
Bob
I am called anti-Semitic by this Stormy70 who said that Palestinians should be walled off from the rest of the world? Please. Take a whiff of yourself, girl. The Gaza strip was occupied land. The Israelis left. They half-knocked down the buildings before they left. Is the big deal that Palestinians knocked down an abandoned temple? What should have been done? Leave it alone in case the Israelis invade again and decide to stay? As far as attacks by any group against another based on religious beliefs is always a crock. Religion is a great way to motivate people to die for the profit of others.
Nudnik, to say that a lengthy occupation in someone else’s land has nothing in common with other occupations of others’ lands needs some explication. Of course it does. That’s the point. People don’t like to be occupied. When occupiers leave, the natives celebrate their leaving, usually by smashing what the occupiers left behind.
Gadzooks says it’s not a “valid comparison.” Why? Because Israel is above criticism when it occupies someone else’s territory? They did leave, right? Where do you go to get your validity card punched?
Tall Dave, I agree that other Arab countries have used the Palestinian mess to fight their proxy war against Israel. My guess is that you probably find more money flowing out of Saudi Arabia, though, than Tehran or Damascus.
As far as the respectful dismantling riff, it seems that anyone with an IQ over 75 would have figured out what was going to happen when the Israelis withdrew. Did the Vietnamese follow the proper procedures for folding and storing American flags when the last helicopter left the American embassy?
Israel is a state with a state religion. State religions are used as tools of the ruling class. Not a good idea here in the USA, not a good idea in Iran, not a good idea in India or Sri Lanka, not a good idea in Saudi Arabia. Is it a good idea in Israel? Is it a good idea in lands that Israel occupies?
Mark
Didn’t the Israeli government ask the Palestinian Authority to tear down the synagogues? From what I read, the Israelis wanted them torn down, they just didn’t feel comfortable doing it themselves.
skip
Bob is, of course, right. You wouldn’t expect anything different under the circumstances.
And . .
You cannot on one hand deny the Palestinian authority the means to establish order, while deploring their failure to establish order of the other.
Question: Does anyone on the Sharonista side of this argument REALLY believe Israel has any intention of honoring the Road Map? Gaza is interesting but the real money issue is the West Bank.