How long do you suppose it will take after President Obama takes the oath for the GOP to step back into that bodysnatcher pod? Normally I would guess that they have traveled too far towards police state sovietism to turn back now, but then they dropped the limited government schtick awfully fast.
It will be fun to hear what this guy from that famous National Review cruise thinks in 2009:
“The liberals don’t believe in the constitution. They don’t believe in what the founders wanted – a strong executive,”
…contrariwise, maybe Obama does believe in a strong executive. I wonder how National Review cruisers will feel about that.
cleek
out with the Hillary Test!
in with the Obama Test!
David Hunt
My best guess is negative 76 days…with respect the the Obama Administration. With respect the justifying the Bush Administration’s actions? How long are they likely to live?
Ted
That quote from that cruise really just blows me away. I mean, the stupidity involved is staggering.
The founders, having already declared independence and fought a long and nasty war in order to get out from under a “strong executive”, decided to design a government for themselves that includes “a strong executive”.
Joshua Norton
Where the frig did he get the “strong executive” BS from? The founders specifically did NOT want a strong executive. Adams was soundly jeered when he said the President should be for life and addressed as “Your Majesty”.
Someone really should explain the meaning of “checks and balances” to these so-called experts.
srv
My fantasy outcome would be for Yoo and Addington to disappear during the first week of office. The executive branch would make no statement. After a month or so, they would admit that these men were being held offshore and allow the Red Cross to see them. Pres. Obama would state that he had these men detained under his perogative as Unitary Executive.
The wingnuts would go ape, but it would be months, maybe years of hypocritic spasms for all to enjoy. Maybe the people would ‘get it’.
It would take about 3 years for the case to reach the Supreme Court. The state would use all the Yoo and Addington memos against their defense.
Papa Boule
Today’s word is “pivot.”
As in 180.
See it action beginning early next year!
Dennis - SGMM
I don’t think that it was accidental that the Legislative Branch is the first described in the Constitution. If the Founders had wanted the Executive to be pre-eminent then that would have been on top.
Tsulagi
…to bloom into a serious adult?
That might be the real ending for that question.
BFR
For entertainment purposes, I’d rather see what happens if they end up on an airplane that gets diverted to Spain (the land of universal jurisdiction). It’d be an interesting spectacle all the way around.
Dennis - SGMM
Take them to Gitmo and then state that they don’t have any rights because they’re no longer on US soil. Finish with waterboarding them into confessing that they contaminated all those tomatoes with e coli.
DFD
It will take approximately 2 seconds for the authoritarian twits to reverse their “strong executive” crap because Jeebus never intended a Democrat, much less a black man, to be the one behind the desk. Any political philosphy comes second to these ingrates. Their priority is maintaining the proper social order.
Brachiator
WTF?
Did somebody shred the Constitution and the Federalist Papers?
However, this nutball quote indicates that the poster is on point with two of the most important beliefs put forth by the Bush Administration: that the Republican Party is the only repository of American values; and that the two other branches of the government must be made subservient to presidential authority.
I noted in a post on Scalia and the Gitmo ruling how the Bush Administration has been quietly working to weave presidential authority into Supreme Court decisions:
The Bush Administration usurps Congressional authority by outlining to the point of authorship legislation and then insisting that Congress hurry up and pass the drafted laws. Bush has shifted the ground on Executive Branch appointments (most egregiously in the Justice Department) by making cronyism and loyalty to the President — not the Constitution — the primary qualification for office. And they have gutted any the concept of advise and consent with respect to treaties and judicial appointments. The GOP Congressional leadership happily goes along with this, and the Democrats act as though they have been rickrolled.
And to top it all off, Bush has selected a Supreme Court that views the president as a secular Pope whose authority is nearly infallible.
When Obama is elected, the conservatives on the Court will truly be hoisted on their own petards should Obama pushes any issues of presidential authority. If Scalia and company show any inconsistencies in their opinions, they will make the Court look like a laughing stock.
Joshua Norton
That ship sailed 7 1/2 years ago.
pinola
You’d think they would have considered that, but then Karl Rove told them they were going to be in power for 100 years and they bought it.
pinola
srv @ 451: i think you’re on to something, here . . .
Bill Arnold
And to top it all off, Bush has selected a Supreme Court that views the president as a secular Pope whose authority is nearly infallible.
I think you mean:
And to top it all off, Bush has selected a Supreme Court that views a Republican president as a secular Pope whose authority is nearly infallible.
RSA
This is pretty much a given, as you say; the only exception might be so-called principled conservatives, but they’re so rare as to be almost mythical.
nightjar
Speaking of Mr. Addington, here is his explanation that the VP office is beholden to no one. Except maybe the hull of a ship.
zhak
The Republicans are very fond of throwing out statements like the one above about the founders’ wanting a “strong executive.” Statements with little or no resemblance to the truth. All too often such remarks are essentially a 180 degree turn from the truth, which is the case with the “strong executive” remark, since the core idea behind our fledging democracy was to create a system of checks and balances where no one had the upper hand and everyone would be answerable to those they served.
So. We now have a “unitary” executive who has dictatorial powers and we have a government which does not answer to the people (see the recent FISA “compromise” & ongoing erosion of civil liberties).
Up is down, white is black, war is PEACE, baby.
ThymeZone
That is much closer to the truth, and much closer to the source of your problem.
I am more and more intrigued by the notion being advanced in the blatheramic blog world that somehow the government decides what the country is going to be. The truth is, the people decide this, even if they do so by just acquiescing or being apathetic, or by just being fools.
Whatever the reason, until the people elect representatives who represent a strong electorate’s views that are different from what you see now, you will not get the change you say you want.
You would think that the blog world would get this, but it seems easier to just bark at the moon than to actually examine what is necessary in order to effect change.
This blog is run by a guy who supported Bush for President twice, if I am not mistaken, and now doesn’t like the government he got.
Well, whaddya know. Like GWB himself says, this stuff is hard. It’s just hard.
Jay Andrew Allen
Zifnab
Particularly ironic, because it was salmonella.
That sounds about right. Go back to the old Bush speeches from 2000. Listen to him rail against Kosovo and foreign wars and reckless spending and the police state that reared its head at Waco and on and on and on.
The GOP will be the retro-active party of limited government right after they don’t control government any more.
Now, that isn’t to say their agendas will change a shred. They’ll still be completely co-opted by big business and religious crazies. And they’ll still be authoritarian to the core – with loyalty oaths and lapel pins and the works. And they’ll still be dirty little ratfuckers.
But whenever Hillary writes up her health care bill or Obama moves to pull troops from Iraq or Sec State Richardson has a sit-down with the new President of Iran, you’ll hear the GOP couch all its cheap-ass, warmongering, xenophobic craziness in the very, very serious language of small government conservatives.
Just look at some of the current legislation on the table – the GI Bill or the Windfall Profits Tax or the FISA legislation. Listen to what the GOP actually says on the House floor. They’ve got to twist their language in pretzel-shaped knots, but they inevitably conclude that you can’t be a fiscally responsible, small government, pro-troop American without screwing Iraq Vets, allowing gas prices to skyrocket unchecked, and letting the White House read your emailed porn.
Tim F.
Jay Allen, I think that it’s safe to say that neither the federalists nor the antifederalists supported a unitary executive concept. If there were David Addingtons in the colonies, they either kept a low profile or fought for the crown.
Delia
It won’t matter by then, will it? Because President Obama will have that damn FISA legislation that they’ve been screaming for and that we’ve been screaming against. And he’ll be able to listen to every damn thing they say from here to the end of the world.
4th Amendment? Never heard of it. Good thing we’ve got a ‘strong esecutive.’
Helena Montana
I don’t like the idea of Obama or Clinton or McCain or Bush or anybody else having the power of the “unitary executive.” The Constitution provides for having 3 equal branches of government, and disturbing that balance is a recipe for disaster.
calipygian
Personally, I was looking forward to President Hillary tapping all the phones at the National Review and calling in the whole staff for “questioning” at random intervals. I was especially looking forward to Hillary crushing Andrew McCarthy’s testicles because national security demanded it.
Now all I have to look forward to is Lisa Schiffern lamenting that we have elected an “Islamo-Commie” and Kathleen Parker complaining about President Obama’s unfitness for office because of his lack of “blood equity” in the country.
I, along with everyone else in the blogosphere, will continue to roll my eyes whenever K-Lo posts something inane about Duran Duran or Big Love.
That is as fixed as the Pole Star.
Shame.
Fledermaus
But we’ve always been at war with East Asia.
Brachiator
The Bush Administration had an agenda, drafted by the neocons, and aided and abetted by the right wing media (most notably people like Hugh Hewitt and Michael Medved), that the nation was supposed to be a permanent Republican government in which every idea, policy and institution created by Democrats since the New Deal, would be rolled back. And as an aside, Iraq is for some conservatives, Vietnam fought the right way, with dissent minimized.
But you are right that this requires either the active approval or the passive acceptance of the citizens. This is both the strength and the weakness of democracy.
But one thing that the Scalias don’t get is that the Constitution isn’t a divine document dropped on us by divine entities long ago. The central premise of “We the People,” is that the American people are always and perpetually the founders, not simply those who wrote and ratified the document.
And precursor to electing representatives who reflect our views, it is deciding what those views should be for us today and tomorrow.
Ironically, the Internets, blogs, the YouTubes, have provided a forum like the pamphlets written by the 18th century patriots.
Then as now, these are times that try men’s (and women’s) souls.
HyperIon
OK, I’ll bite:
Dennis - SGMM
They prefer to see themselves as shamans who are able to channel men who are two hundred years dead. Their own biases and prejudices never, ever influence their decisions and that’s why they’re shamans and we’re not.
rawshark
Not everyone wanted independence. Tories didn’t. Tories were conservative. Conservatives believe in a strong executive. They believe in a noble class, an aristocracy. FOX News has convinced a lot of people that being conservative is the american way. Believing in a strong executive is the american way. Most conservatives are religious or current or former military. Two groups that are predisposed to bend over for authority. They feel its their duty to follow orders. And you’re either with them or you hate the military, hate God and hate america.
Stevenovitch
What exactly about choosing between the lesser of two evils implies my acceptance, passive or otherwise of any policy?
I guess if the population as a whole was of one mind about something things might move in that direction over time, but really that’s unrealistic, especially with a media and political establisment that is so effective at dividing and manipulating voting blocks.
So in an ideal Platonic world I agree with you, but in practice it seems like this isn’t the case save a giant 300 million man Union meeting. We have a lot of challenges to overcome regarding new media and living standards before this statement becomes true again.
ThymeZone
An opportunity for change is on the table. We will elect a new, young Democrat as president, and then we can engineer some change in the next few years.
Some … change. Not all, and not all of that in the areas you might expect. Surprises lie ahead. Just decide if you want to listen to President McCain for four years, and you’ll know what to do.
Ted
THAT’S not change we can believe in! eehheehhhhuhuuuhhheehh.
(Sorry, I really don’t know how to write that slimy giggle.)
Mike Mundy
The Failed Obama Presidency
It is only now, 3 months after President Obama’s inauguration, that the outlines of his epic failure as President are becoming apparent.
Every day, I look out the window at my back yard . . . and I still do not have a pony.
El Cid
For the right wing / mainstream media nexus, there is no past, there is no shame, there is no irony, there is no hypocrisy.
If Obama is elected, then what they have been screaming in favor of for 8 years will vanish and it will turn out that they are massively against it.
What they have labeled as bloody murder these past 8 years will turn out to be exactly what they want, right then.
8 years of power — 4 years of absolute power over all branches of government — will disappear, walled up in the cement of some stadium, and they will scream about how the Democrats haven’t fixed the deficit and debt within 24 hours of the inauguration.
For the Republican right wing, there is no past, there is no shame, there is no consistency, there is no sense of irony, there is no avoidance of hypocrisy.
Ted
This is especially true. But it might just be a bit different this time. The major political media is inherently extremely lazy, and will not do homework. But I have noticed many *will* pick up and report legwork that’s already been done for them. Blogs can really help with this. When republicans instantly start talking about all the spending, debt, the deficit, pork, etc, there will be an army of people doing volunteer work that the media won’t ready to counter that shit with a mountain of evidence of the sheer hypocrisy of the bullshit.
Dennis - SGMM
Market Drops 3 Percent on Profit Jitters
What’s the over/under on how long it will take the Repubs to blame this on trepidation at the prospect of a Democratic president?
El Cid
I hope Ted’s right.
grandpajohn
Well of course thats what the founding fathers wanted thats why they wrote the constitution to form a government of 3 branchs with each branch having checks an balances on the other 2 branchs. even a moran ought to be able to discern the intent of the founding fathers.
Camper Joe
Remember when the Republicans were all pissed about Bill Clinton intervening in Kosovo?
This is going to be WAY worse.
This involves a “Negro” with real power.
Camper Joe
Don’t think that I don’t want to see these right wing heads explode, because I can’t wait it. It will be mighty.
Camper Joe
Forgive me for the superfluous “it”
I was reading a certain Stephen King book involving a fucked up clown named Pennywise Bush.
cmorenc
The Court already looks like a laughing stock. Unfortunately, few people can bring themselves to laugh, because these arrogant twits have the power to impose their ideological orgasmic fetishes on the rest of us, with consequences too serious to see much humor in it. Never mind that their supposed conservative ideology is in fact malleable to whatever serves the momentary needs of their true ideology of protecting and furthering their favored politica order – no matter that black is green next week if need be, and red the next.
The Grand Panjandrum
When will the Wingnuts have an epiphany, and determine that the FISA amendment/warrantless wiretaps are a ruse by the gummint to find out where all the guns owned by law-abiding Americans are? Most people forget that Bill Clinton tried to get something similar to the Patriot Act passed during his term in office. Of course, THAT was a bad idea and become known as the watered down Aviation Safety something or other Act. One of the arguments against that I recall hearing was it was a gummint plot to find out where all the guns were. Fast forward about 5 years and those very same Republicans can’t drop their drawers for Bush fast enough when he proposes the so-called Patriot Act.
Of course, EVERYTHING was different AFTER 9/11. At least, as long as that angry Black Man doesn’t get elected. Then everything will have changed again. Will that mean we are back to 9/10?
Holy shit! WTF was that? Never mind. It was my shadow.
The Right has become an embarrassment and proved once again it is rife with a bunch of saber-rattling cowards willing to send other peoples kids to die for “freedom” and the right to be a complete moron. May the gods bless them. I just hope the FSM isn’t the jealous type.
Brachiator
Exactamundo! In our secular society the shaman is the “expert,” the designated high priest who doesn’t just explain what something might mean, which is legitimate, but then goes on to tell you what you should believe, which is BS.
The first several pages of Scalia’s majority opinion in the gun case is a masterpiece of judicial shamanism. He pulls out his Judicial Ouija Board ™, goes into his interpretive trance, and sagely calls forth the spirits of those founders who wrote the Constitution or who ratified the Bill of Rights. And sure enough, the spirit’s thoughts exactly confirm Scalia’s beliefs.
Justice Souter often tries to serve as the skeptical Houdini to Scalia’s shaman, exposing the fakery behind Mad Dog Antonin’s pretensions to “originalism,” but he was strangely silent this time around.
True, but most Tories got their butts kicked, had their properties confiscated, and moved back to England, or to Canada or to crown colonies like the Bahamas. Benjamin Franklin’s bastard son is an example (hat tip to Wikipedia):
A small remnant of these Tories re-invented themselves as the American elite and have been trying for years to convince people that democracy is no good unless an authoritarian elite exists to do the heavy lifting that the huddled masses can’t get done.
As an aside, this makes the GOP Smear Machine’s attempt to portray Obama as an elitist all the more ridiculous.
Emma Anne
Good black comedy in here tonight.
TenguPhule
You’re about six months late.
Kudlow the McCain cocksucker has already pedaled the “Obama speaks, markets tank” bullshit.
TenguPhule
My Fantasy involves them and the entire Bush Admin disappearing from the face of the Earth. No statements, none of them seen alive ever again.
And twenty years later, a few moldy lapel pins are found in some Florida swamp.
mclaren
You know, it’s interesting that Tim mentions the Repubs have gone over the edge into police state sovietism, because it’s becoming increasingly that the soviets won the Cold War.
Think about it: the former USSR turned into a corrupt kleptocracy run by oligarchs — basically a bad parody of capitalism — while America has now turned into the Soviet Union. Is there anything, and I mean anything, the Soviet police state used to do to its own citizen that America now does not do to its citizens?
Kidnap innocent people and hold ’em without charges in black holes where no legal process applies?
Check.
Torture suspects into giving false confessions?
Check.
Universal surveillance of citizens’ telephone conversations?
Check.
Round up demonstrators, club them into submission, and drag them away to detention centers without proper charges or authority?
Check.
Employ agents provocateurs to disrupt dissent groups, then swoop down and use “state security” excuses to drag ’em all away into black holes beyond the reach of law?
Check.
Massive TV and radio propaganda preaching the glory of the Omnipotent Leader and the crucial importance of rooting out traitors and subversives who poison our precious fatherland from within?
Check.
So what else is there?
What did the former Soviet tyranny do that America is not now doing to its own citizens?
Like some kind of Star Trek episode, the essential soviet mentality of tyranny and police state terror leaked out of the former Soviet Union, leaving it a hollow shell, and has now crawled into the American government, turning America into the new soviet-style police state.
So tell me again…which side actually won the Cold War?
Shouldn’t we be calling Ronald Reagan “The man who lost the Cold War because he started the process of turning America into a soviet-style police state”?
gypsy howell
Not a problem. We’ll simply be accused of having a “pre 1/20/09 mindset.”
Lynn Lightfoot
Zifnab nailed it, perfectly. The following is from his comment at 5:54pm, June 26. “The GOP will be the retroactive party of limited government right after they don’t control government anymore. Now, that isn’t to say their agendas will change a shred. They’ll still be completely co-opted by big business and religious crazies. And they’ll still be authoritarian to the core, with loyalty oaths and lapel pins and the works. And they’ll still be dirty little ratfuckers.” The rest of what he has to say is also right on the money. But that’s the nub: corrupt and hypocritical (as well as proudly ignorant), authoritarian, and utterly unscrupulous. Mayberry Machiavellis through and through. Because they are powerful, they are terrifying.
Rick Taylor
From Atrios:
binzinerator
The USSR of course didn’t lose, it collapsed.
Ronnie and the proto-neocons (yup, you could find Cheney and Rummy wriggling in the rotted tissue of that government) thought in order to win they had to ‘take the gloves off’ and use the same methods the soviets were using.
It’s obvious to any cretin that if you do as your enemy does you become indistinguishable from your enemy.
This is the exact same thing these same people have done with terrorism. These sociopaths have adopted the same methods, the same use of fear to gain political advantage, the same brutality, the same disregard for law and life, and in doing so they have become just like the same ruthless, brutal, terrorizing killers they say they are trying to protect us from.
This time our external enemy is not going to undergo economic collapse and fragment into irrelevancy. This time it is the lawless terrorizing killers in the White House who are the biggest threat to this democracy.
binzinerator
We ought to look at Ronnie as the man who set up the machinery for the shredder that America and her freedoms would be fed into.
Bush, with Cheney and the neocon goopers, forced her face in there and turned it up to 11 while taking turns kicking her in the womb with jackboots.