Another crazy person with insane beliefs appears to have killed a a soldier in Arkansas:
A Muslim convert who said he was opposed to the U.S. military shot two soldiers outside an Arkansas recruiting station, killing one, police said Monday.
“This individual appears to have been upset with the military, the Army in particular, and that’s why he did what he did,” Little Rock Police Lt. Terry Hastings said in a phone interview.
“He has converted to (Islam) here in the past few years,” Hastings said. “We’re not completely clear on what he was upset about. He had never been in the military.
“He saw them standing there and drove up and shot them. That’s what he said.”
Hastings identified the man in custody as Carlos Bledsoe, 24, of Little Rock, who goes by the name of Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad.
I’ll be interested to hear how more guns could have prevented this. It also sounds like he has prior history with the military. No telling if tried to get in and was rejected, or a wash out from basic, or something like that.
*** Update ***
According to the Times, the prior history is just rage:
In a lengthy interview with the police, Mr. Muhammad said he was angry about the killing of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, Chief Thomas said. Previously known as Carlos Bledsoe, Mr. Muhammad told investigators that he had converted to Islam as a teenager, Chief Thomas said.
Chief Thomas said investigators believe that Mr. Muhammad acted alone. He seemed to be familiar with the Army recruiting office because it was not far from his home, the chief said, but might have been on the prowl for anyone in uniform.
“I would say he was looking for any and all targets of opportunity that happened to be military,” the chief said in a telephone interview. “That may have well been the first place he found.”
Just pure rage, again.
Ash
Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad is a bajillion times cooler than Carlos Bledsoe.
But seriously, WHEN WILL THE CRAZY STOP? God damn guns. No one seriously needs those f’n things. And dude, if you’re upset with the military, killing some random person isn’t going to do a damn thing.
djesno
Some nazi (sorry for invoking Godwin so quickly) could have shot him for his “funny name” first! jim david atkinson (sp) maybe? we DO need to rid the world of the libruls.
Josh Hueco
Every non-crazy Muslim in the US has got to be cursing this guy right now.
Gold Star for Robot Boy
AJ Strata, of Strata-Sphere, didn’t wait around for the news. He cut to the chase and blamed the shooting on teh Left.
Ditch Digger
I don’t support profiling, and ‘goes by’ might mean it wasn’t ‘legally changed to’, but wtf? How does someone roll around freakin’ Arkansas with Mujahid in their brand new Islamic name and not get singled out for closer scrutiny?
Fulcanelli
An American muslim convert gunned down an innocent American serviceman in Arkansas?
Dead Man Walkin’.
One of the more creative methods of suicide I’ve seen yet. Bring on the virgins…
FormerSwingVoter
Great.
After Tom Erickson and now this guy, now both sides have their own personal “Look at how crazy and dangerous they really are! See? We were right the whole time!” scapegoat.
Of course, the mainstream left will be unanimous in saying that this guy is a horrible monster who needs to be locked away forever, while the mainstream right has been gleefully celebrating that they got a doctor killed with their hateful rhetoric – but that’s the kind of detail you can count on the media to leave out over the next several days.
Behold the power of False Equivalence.
JGabriel
@Gold Star for Robot Boy:
You know, last time I checked, religious fundamentalism really isn’t a tenet of the left. It’s kind of fascinating how conservatives can’t seem to (or refuse to) grasp that Islamic fundamentalism is a right wing phenomena just as much as Christian fundamentalism.
.
El Cid
I think there is a degree to which small incidents of political violence encourage others. I don’t know what to suggest to do about it, though.
Calouste
The suspected assailant was charged with first degree murder and 15 terrorist acts. The suspected murderer of Dr. Tiller hasn’t been charged with anything yet, although charges will have to be made by tomorrow. I wonder how many terrorist acts he will be charged with. (I won’t wonder about the amount of fauxrage that is going to explode if he is charged with terrorist acts.)
John Cole
@Gold Star for Robot Boy: So did James Joyner. He’s a respectable Republican, so of course he doesn’t really say anything himself, he just links people that blame “teh left” and then, after giving a full airing of their speculations, states it would be wrong to speculate.
I love the equivalency he is trying to rock there, because it was a huge mystery what was behind Tiller’s death after three decades of harassment. If Joyner is going wingnut, the GOP is just dead.
John Cole
@FormerSwingVoter: Wait a minute. At what point did Democrats get the crazy disaffected Muslim murderer vote. Last I checked we were against Islamic crazies.
The right, on the other hand, fully owns the Operation Rescue nutjobs.
Warren Terra
Will the “pro-life” monsters who’ve been talking about the acceptability of terrorist action to stop abortion take the same principled stand about this murderer’s attempt to use terrorism to comment on our foreign policy?
Margarita
Nothing to kill or die for.
JGabriel
Warren Terra:
I think you might be jumping to a conclusion here. We don’t know yet what this murderer’s motive was. If Cole is right about a previous history of some sort with the military, his motive may be more personal than policy.
.
D-Chance.
What’s with that damn “Curvy” ad? It’s even worse than the Pamela Anderson breast-hiding pic.
“Rated N.S.F.W.”, indeed…
malraux
Man, I hate seeing these crazy political killings here. This one was literally down the street from me.
Rey
In the past several months Arkansas has had a couple of shootings that have been strange. The head of the Democratic party in Arkansas was fatally shot in his office right before the election in November, several weeks ago, a Doctor’s car was bombed at a local area hospital and they arrested another Dr. of Indian descent that had some bomb making ammo and other weapons on his property- not sure if it is all related or not– Now this crazy shit. I’m aware of all of this because I live over the bridge from Arkansas in Tennessee. Why do all of the domestic terrorist decide to grow a pair of balls when we have a Democratic President?
kay
The injured soldier was only 18, and he was saying “tell me this isn’t real, tell me this isn’t real”.
So sad. It’s real.
Warren Terra
I was relying on the version I read at the New York Times an hour or so ago:
FormerSwingVoter
@John Cole: I don’t get the connection myself. But logic doesn’t matter – the right will blame us anyway.
I’m really hoping I’m wrong – but I think that the most casual observers will equate the reactions to the two stories as “crazies on both sides yelling about how dangerous the other is”. The fact that the crime the right blames on us has nothing at all to do with us will be lost.
Cris
21 comments, and no trolls yet accusing us of being insufficiently outraged?
malraux
@FormerSwingVoter: I read some of the local newpaper comment pages. Pretty much pure rage related to the new marxist government.
sgwhiteinfla
The sad part is this story has been out since earlier today and I am talking about almost from the moment it went up on memeorandum before they had a suspect in the shooting Michelle Malkin had a post up saying it was all the left’s fault. The muthfuckas never just accept any responsibility. Its always the Pee Wee Herman defense.
“I know you are but what am I”
Talk about a chronic lack of self awareness. Nothing about this guy shooting those recruiters has a damn thing to do with liberal or progressive politics. But hey he is a handy excuse for blatant false equivalence so you know the wingnuts are going to take it.
asiangrrlMN
@Calouste: None. What do I win?
Wait a minute, I’m with Cole on this. When the fuck did WE get slapped as the party of crazy Islamic killers? No, seriously. I don’t get it. Why?
El Cid
Ever since Bill Clinton let 9/11 happen and John Kerry tried to help Al Qa’ida and Barack Obama tried to help Bill Ayers blow up the Pentagon, and shut up, that’s when.
asiangrrlMN
@El Cid: Now, how the hell did I ever forget that????? SO obvious!
sgwhiteinfla
BTW If you missed Rachel Maddow tonight you missed a powerful segment with former RTLer Frank Schaeffer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0qHnWsP5k
gex
@sgwhiteinfla: If it’s anything like the VA Tech shooter, the rush was to get the misinformation out there as fast as possible (he was anti-Christian!) to make sure that the actual information (he was extremely Christian – the problem was his parents tried to fix his mental illness with prayer) disappeared in the wake of a news cycle that had moved on.
Indylib
@asiangrrlMN:
The fucktards conflate not wanting to torture the Islamic terrorist suspects with agreeing with them. Shrub said it all, “You’re either with us or against us”. Us in this case being the wingnut-loony-hate-all- brown-people-us.
joeyess
“Imagine No Religion.”
-John Lennon
asiangrrlMN
@Indylib: Ah. Got it. That’s pretty dang weak.
TenguPhule
50% human bastards.
10% needing to be scrubbed from the human gene pool.
35% decent human beings.
5% above and beyond the call.
joeyess
I had 3 minutes to correct that last post and neglected to do so…..
Lennon never said that in his song.
But he did expressly mean it.
Here’s the lyric:
TenguPhule
Or basically, the same as religion but no pretending.
joeyess
@TenguPhule:
I would hazard a guess that those stats are what we currently have now.
Now, imagine……….
TenguPhule
You have failed to imbibe enough GOP Blammo, with electrolytes, that’s why.
Anything bad = Liberals = Democrats
Anything good = GOP = Christian Fundamentalist Crystal Dragon Jesus.
Anything bad that can be linked to the Right = Satanic Liberal plot to smear the Right and look Democrats do it too!
MikeJ
Is it semantically possible to be a liberal fundamentalist?
TenguPhule
You presume logic on the part of the GOP.
That is why you fail.
Anne Laurie
Because either Republican presidents provide the borderline psychotics with “outside” enemies to focus on, or the Media Village Idiots overlook/explain-away “random not-newsworthy incidents” — like the ones Rey mentioned in comment #18 — when they can fantasize that the Big Daddy Repub in the Oval Office will protect us from the monsters.
I vote both. And recommend, not for the first time, Mark Ames’ Going Postal, which talks about stuff like this:
Alabama Serial Killing Mystery Solved
someguy
It’s basically another act of right wing religious extremism. Just a different religion and a different sort of right than the ones we’re used to looking at.
asiangrrlMN
@TenguPhule: Thank you, TenguPhule, for distilling the wingnuttery for me. I just have to remember that we are the Devil and they are God. Got it!
Ash
@someguy: Yep. Except them good Christians believe that Islam is evil, and Islam hates Christianity, which means the left loves Islam and all psychotic Muslims, since they hate Christians.
Duh.
TenguPhule
Just remember to drink plenty of fluids afterwards and avoid driving while possibly under the influence.
It’s strong stuff. 100% 360 proof.
Martin
Never would have happened if they had a concealed carry permit.
/kneejerk wingnut
asiangrrlMN
@Ash:
@TenguPhule:
@Martin:
Ah, laughter. I needed that. Thanks.
Quaker in a Basement
Just on the off chance anyone reads this who needs to know it:
Whatever your opinion of U.S. foreign policy, young men who join the Army are not your enemy.
Justin Cognito
I’m placing $5 on Michelle Malkin, not a few days from saying we shouldn’t use Dr. Tiller’s death as a means to throw around blame and hatred, using this as an example of the organized jihadist menace.
Ash
@Quaker in a Basement: I’m pretty sure no one who reads Balloon Juice, or somehow manages to stumble upon it, would ever need to be reminded of that.
asiangrrlMN
@Justin Cognito: What? You mean Michelle Malkin might do something hypocritical? Bite your tongue.
TenguPhule
4 hours from now.
A day, max.
Martin
Note to wingnuts:
You cannot accuse liberals of wanting to take away all of your guns AND at the same time accuse liberals of cheerleading this guy for having guns to shoot at the soldiers.
If what you accuse us of ever came true (and what almost nobody is actually asking for) and all the guns were taken away, the only people in this incident that would have had guns would have been the soldiers.
TenguPhule
Wanna bet?
Your Wing-fu is weak, my disciple.
asiangrrlMN
@Martin: Um, Martin, you are violating the first rule of wingnuttery, which is, “Yes, I can! 9/11, ACORN, Bill Ayers, soci a l ist, shut up!”
BDeevDad
Malkin is already calling the suspect a domestic terrorist. What a surprise. She has no sense of irony.
Bender
…because criminals, terrorists and murderers would give their guns back to The Man, right?
Wanna rethink that?
Martin
Well, I know they will, but it’s worth putting the contradictions in writing now and then.
Martin
You know, there’s a reason why almost none of us are actually calling for it.
(Hint: we’ve already considered that)
TenguPhule
No, they’d all be dead, shot for possessing illegal weapons by our para-military police forces.
The new thing would be cross-bows.
Mike S
A tale of two Malkins:
12:48AM
6/1/09 2:02PM
asiangrrlMN
@Mike S: She really, really, really, really pisses me off. Seriously. Of all the rightwingnutters, she’s the one who frosts my hide–and not in a good way.
BDeevDad
@Mike S: Malkin, inconsistently consistent since time immemorial.
Mike S
@asiangrrlMN: Might I suggest a daily dose of tbogg as a tonic for your misery. He skewers her better than any on the planet.
As a matter of fact here is a link to a bunch of his posts on her. I didn’t realize how good the search function was at FDL.
Steeplejack
@asiangrrlMN:
Mmm, frosted hides . . .
Oops, sorry, where were we? Ahem.
TenguPhule
The most memorable thing about Malkin is how her eyes always seem to be on the verge of popping out like headsploder on Scanners.
I swear, every video clip of her on C&L captures her looking like that *every* *damn* *time*.
Very creepy.
Mike S
@TenguPhule: I am not tbogg, but I am pimping him tonight. This post has 11 of those pictures.
If you don’t laugh at at least 6 of them you must be on thorazine.
TenguPhule
I’m not laughing. It’s Nightmare Fuel unleaded, you sick sick person!
DaveInOz
This is what happens when you o/d on arugula
wobbly
written in pencil in the sealed railway car
here in this carload
I am eve
with abel my son
if you see my older son
cain son of adam
tell him that I
— Dan Pagis
I often think of this poem when I don’t know to say or do about the homicide du jour.
It should be better known, IMHO.
Ninerdave
@asiangrrlMN:
She’s f’n hillarious!
I’ve long since passed trying to reason or converse with anyone of her ilk. In the end, she’s a money grubbing, douchebag and provides me endless entertainment. More power to a Filipina, making money off of old white dudes.
Also, Tbogg ftw.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
Whatever your opinion of U.S. foreign policy, young men who join the Army are not your enemy.
Unless they’re occupying your country. In that case, as far as I’m concerned, the natives have every right to shoot at them.
HeartlandLiberal
Am I to assume that it does not occur to or bother anyone else what a highly useful incident this is for the mainstream media and the right wing propagandists that run most of the traditional media?
They now have the story at hand that will allow them to totally bury the murder of Dr. Tiller by the right wing crazies of America, who participated in a long term conspiracy, working hand in hand to encourage and reap the rewards of such an act of domestic terrorism and murder.
And I am sure the MSM will run wild with this story. After all, it has all the proper, obvious elements of conspiracy that our masters wish to shove down our throats daily as part of their agenda, scary Muslim extremists hate America and murder our poor soldiers. The Fearmongers will be out 24×7, I imagine.
How convenient and timely that this story arises to push the Dr. Tiller narrative right out of the peeps’ collective minds, along with our government’s caving a couple months ago to the complaints about the release of the report on rightwing extremism in America, which fully predicted what we saw happen in the case of Dr. Tiller.
harlana pepper
I bet Cheney just spooged all over himself and is now scrambling for the first podium he can find.
Paul L.
So the soldiers outside an Arkansas recruiting station were armed? The military changed since the time I was in the Navy.
They would not let you carry your personal firearm on duty. To have a firearm you have to be issued one and I doubt that the recruiting station had someone on watch.
Maybe that will change now.
Yes I know it is a strawman. But since you guys are burning so many I am joining in the fun.
Which is why the nutroots like to cite Juan Cole (Islamic crazy apologist).
No posts on Crooks and Liars/Firedoglake/Ezra Klein. Must not have been on JournoList yet. However the murder of Dr. George Tiller had nutroots posts about it almost instantaneously.
harlana pepper
@Mike S: Thank you! Nice to have a morning laugh with your coffee.
The Grand Panjandrum
Apparently this guy was already being investigated by the FBI after taking a trip to Yemen and being arrested there for trying to enter with a fake Somali passport. This guy looks like an aspiring terrorist and went out to kill some soldiers.
harlana pepper
OT: funny but I clicked on the Pam Anderson link for the first time and saw she was asking people to boycott KFC which I have been doing for the last few years anyway for the same reasons.
someguy
@ Phoenician
harlana pepper
Dunno, the Iraq war always made me want to kill myself, not other people. This is awful, I’m just glad to hear that the other soldier survived. They are just babies, after all, IMAO (in my aged opinion).
We can all agree, at least, that both this shooter and Dr. Tiller’s assassin were disturbed individuals who needed psychiatric help. Please let’s fix our healthcare system asap and get these people some help to prevent this kind of madness.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Apparently it is Religious Extremist Fucknut week.
Josh Hueco
Bullshit. Do you really think that the soldiers joined the army just so they could shoot Muslims?
someguy
@ Josh Hueco
They may have had perfectly pure motivations but it doesn’t effect the essentially evil nature of the wars Bush created and left us with. Come to think of it, I don’t recall saying anything about their personal motivations. I only recall pointing out what their job is. Could you tell me where you got that about their motivations in what I wrote?
WereBear
Thanks for the link, Anne Laurie. The coverup is amazing.
What? The DFH’s were right again?
Brick Oven Bill
The Quran splits the earth into two worlds; Dar al-Islam (land of submission) and Dar al-Harb (land of war). I think we should follow Mohammed’s guidance and divide the world in two.
We should get the hell out of the Middle East and let those folks live however they want. If the Mohammedans want to make a run at Europe and Russia, more power to them. We do not need Middle Eastern oil as we have oil shale.
We should also stand up and defend the values of free speech and expression that were present at the Founding of this country, and reject the Islamic belief system in the Americas. It is incompatible with the 1st Amendment, in my opinion, as the religion is in and of itself an intolerant political system.
bob h
I’m not worried about Obama visiting the Middle East; I am worried about him visiting the MidWest.
RH Potfry
While I understand a raging Muslim convert isn’t necessarily part of the left’s base, I do think we need steel-cage, fight to the death matches between the nut jobs on the left and the right. It’s entertaining and purging. Really, imagine Jeanne Garafolo taking on Ann Coulter. A ratings extravaganza.
Josh Hueco
@someguy:
My problem was that you were saying the soldiers’ job was to carry out a war against Muslims. If it really were that carrying out a war against Muslims were the primary objective of the military in general, or even the invasion of Iraq in particular, then it would be reasonable to conclude that soldiers who join after 2003 were motivated by a desire to kill Muslims. Maybe a few did, but not most. But Iraq was a war for oil and empire and Manifest Destiny, pure and simple. If it so happened that ‘teh terrists’ were sufficiently melaninized and nonChristian to garner popular support here in the US, then anti-Muslim animus was merely a useful propaganda tool for those responsible for the invasion. But we’re not in Iraq to war against Muslims. I hope that sufficiently muddies things up for you. :)
Brick Oven Bill
Although I am critical of Islam, even it cannot suppress the human spirit. Men and women have been drawn together since the beginning of time and societies have formed legal bonds between the two sexes, to encourage the proper nurturing of children. Often times, however, after a while, the man feels a need to move on. ‘Nikah’ is this legal bond in the Islamic system.
This bond between men and women is often times expensive to dissolve in the Western world. In the Islamic world it is easier as all the man has to say is ‘I divorce you’ three times and then she is gone. Even that is sometimes difficult however.
Here is an excellent example of that human spirit unleashed, in this case from Qatar. Innate human creativity, even when unsuccessful, should give us all hope, the world over.
harlana pepper
Marsha Blackburn is on CSPAN WJ. Now I really want to shoot myself.
(scrambles for remote)
harlana pepper
@Brick Oven Bill:
Marriage is a wonderful institution. I just don’t want to be institutionalized.
(ba-dump, dump!)
Also, just b/c women are often suppressed in Islamic cultures and maybe the “laws” seek to dictate fucking as well, does not mean we shouldn’t get the flying fuck out of there.
Also, see Ted Haggard.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@someguy:
You really think he gives a flying fuck about Muslims? Really? Come here I’ve got a bridge going cheap.
Being the member of a particular religion does not give you the right to fire at will (see for example all of the Muslims who don’t shoot at people). You’ll note his attempt to defend or protect Muslims overseas involved all of the comforts of home and a very easy target. Kind of like the attempt to defend the helpless unborn involved barging into a church and shooting a guy. Fuck all the crazy God Told Me to Do it assholes sideways with a rusty crowbar.
harlana pepper
@BDeevDad: WTF (re: Malkin)? Obama is supposed to say something immediately? Didn’t this just happen yesterday and it’s fucking 8:13 EST.
Fulcanelli
@Brick Oven Bill: BOB, are you sure you never knew a girl named Laura Palmer? Stalked her, maybe?
It seems as though there are large swaths of this country where being sane and speaking your mind out loud is akin to walking around after dark in the movie I Am Legend.
FTW.
Bender
Malkin has a clear and easy point. It is extremely easy to compare two similar events and compare Obama’s responses.
It took Obama about 6 hours to come out with his “heinous acts of violence” statement on Tiller’s murder. It’s now been almost 24 hours since a US serviceman was killed on a US street (and another wounded) by a Muslim… and not a word from Obama? Not even a canned statement from the WH denouncing “heinous acts of violence” against our soldiers?
Obama couldn’t be more tone-deaf on this one if he tried — immediate condemnation of a white Christian who killed an abortionist… not a word against a black Muslim who killed a soldier.
So what the fuck is he waiting for, and why didn’t he wait for it with Tiller?
Phoenician in a time of Romans
The shooter didn’t come after innocent people, he didn’t attack a peace rally or a peaceful doctor who provided necessary services, he shot soldiers whose job it is to carry out a war against Muslims.
Thats… an interesting problem. I’m considerably more anti-American than most here, but I don’t think I’d support that. Soldiers can and do serve an honourable role, that of defending their country.
The practice, alas, is that American soldiers tend to be used in an offensive role more often than those of, well, any other country. Iraq isn’t an aberration; it’s business as usual.
This guy is *probably* a nut – but I can’t help thinking. If you were stuck in Nazi Germany, would you be justified in taking up arms against your own country? The US isn’t anywhere like that, but it *is* committing war crimes and occupying a country it invaded based on lies. If I was an American, I would be protesting, but I wouldn’t be considering rebellion – but we’re not talking about *my* conscience.
I don’t condone the shooter’s actions, but I can’t pretend that his (apparant) motivations are completely illegitimate. When you look behind the facade, the US spends an awful lot of time using force on others to get what it wants – and soldiers can’t claim to be innocent bystanders to this.
It’s like Ted Kaczynski – you should be able to admit that he made some good points in his manifesto, without being sen as cheering on the bombing.
asiangrrlMN
Well, I just got the “you on the left incited this guy since you have the same end goal” comment on my blog (I didn’t actually approve it) and “when are you going to write on the soldier who got shot by the Islamic scumbag” and I got called “moonbat”.
I still don’t understand how the left is responsible for these guys. I have never said our soldiers are murderers and should be shot. In fact, I haven’t called ANYONE a baby-killer or a murderer. Except, you know, for actual baby-killers and murderers.
Yes, I am sure the guy who shot the soldier watches Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow. Uh huh. He probably reads this blog.
No. False equivalency, I do not accept it.
Plus, I fucking hate people ordering me to write about something on my own fucking blog.
kevster
It never fails, nobody but nobody can HATE like a liberal. Emotional, unthinking arrogant booksmart tards that can’t walk around the block by themselves.
American soldiers have brought freedom to the world, Islam is at war with us because they hate freedom, just like the American lib. What gets me is that the people Islamic radicals want to kill are the Libtards, and you are to genetically backward to defend yourselves. Evolution couldn’t be true because no self destructive anti life species like the libtard could survive. You have no sense, won’t defend yourselves and don’t breed. You’re useless.
By the way, about Dr. Tiller. What happened to him is a product of violence breeding more violence. The murderer that killed him out to be prosecuited just like Tiller would have been in a decent society. What an ugly cold hearted fish he was.
DZ
What is it with the right wing steroetypes? We on the left are actually pretty diverse. I am definitely a leftie, I am an atheist, I am a pacifist, I hate the ‘nanny state’, I have guns, I oppose concealed weapons permits, what?
Note: Pacifism is opposition to all war for all reasons, but there is nothing about pacifism that precludes the use of force, including lethal force, to protect oneself and one’s family. My wife and I were both shot 25 years ago in a home invasion – I killed the guy. Not proud of it, but that’s not the ‘far left’ either, if there even is such a thing anymore.
Mike S
@kevster: That’s old dougj type spoofing there. He better watch his back. There’s a new soofer in town.
Tax Analyst
Well, no…not exactly. As to the first part, there are a lot of reasons that SOME Islamic people hold us in contempt and hatred. Much of it is fueled by misinformation and propaganda, but by no means all of it. Sadly, there are kernels of truth amongst all the anti-American BS. Gitmo, innocents killed during ‘drone raids’, etc., do not generally serve to endear us to these peoples. We shouldn’t expect that they would have no effect on how we are seen. Our past history of knee-jerk support for Israel’s subjugation of the Palestinians likewise does not place us in a positive light within much of the Middle-East, Islamic or otherwise. Rightly or wrongly they view Israel as an occupying oppressor of the Palestinians. That said, it doesn’t excuse the cold-blooded murder of young soldiers or anyone else for that matter. I expect for justice to be served in this senselessly obscene murder just as I expect it to be served in Dr. Tiller’s murder. I would like to remind you, however, that I have not seen any evidence of “American libs” prominently advocating attacking American soldiers, while on the other hand one doesn’t have to search very far to find folks on “the right” who have willingly and eagerly drummed up hatred and incited violence against those in the medical professional who still offer abortion services – which is still a somewhat legally protected service in parts of the United States at this particular moment.
As to the second part, no, American “libs” generally do not hate freedom. I don’t see any need to explain to you why this is an uninformed and idiotic remark. You don’t seem to be very far past the “See Dick and Jane” level of thinking and I don’t have any inclination to break it down to that level for you.
Try to mull this all over for a few minutes and then tell me now, please, just who hates “freedom” here in Amercia?
Olliander
It’s for quotes like this that I will not support or vote Republican for a long time, because it’s ignorance espoused by the likes of kevster that have the party by the cajones.
The implication is that liberals are prone to murder and destructive behavior. And the rest of your comments show that you are obviously a conservative partisan.
Please explain to me, how Scott Roeder was “pro-life”? How is that possible considering the heinous act he has committed? And isn’t his crime “self-destructive and anti-life”?
Are you people insane? Gah! This just gets my dander up…
Daniel
The reason Michelle Malkin gets under your skin is because she regularly exposes the absurdity and the hypocrisies of the left. When you don’t have an answer to her, then you get mad and call her names. As for why do liberals hate freedom? (the actual question, that is) Probably because it interferes with their ability to dictate the lifestyle of the common man, and to dictate the policies of the government rather than to subject it to representative democracy. Why else would the left be on a rampage to turn our universities over to the liberal thought police, with across the board discrimination against anyone not part of the leftist or secular orthodoxy. Ultimately, liberal philosophy can’t stand the light of day. For them, I suppose it’s easier to keep drinking the kool-aid.
Daniel
So many of the postings here are simply straw man attacks. The left typically creates straw man attacks in order to justify attacking the other side. The right does it too, though with not quite the same volume. It’s institutional among the left (in academia, the media, Hollywood, etc.).
asiangrrlMN
@Daniel: Nope. The reason MM gets under my skin is because she’s a hateful, stupid idiot who completely trashes people like herself in order to make a buck. Thanks for playing, though. You win nothing.
P.S. Yes, you poor, poor Christian males are SO discriminated against. You finally caught on to “our” secret agenda.
P.S. I gotta laugh at the idea of lefty strawman attacks. Yeah, like the fact that there weren’t WMDs in Iraq. Or the fact that we tortured people and then lied about it. Or the fact that the right wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and ban gay marriages. Sure sounds like strawmen attacks to me!
Olliander
You mean like a Constitutional amendment limiting marriage to heterosexual couples?
Daniel
Yeah, asiangrrlMN – thanks for confirming my point. You called her names, and didn’t even attempt to refute her (you probably can’t). She makes mistakes just like others do, just not that many, and she’s pretty good at exposing the left.
The agenda of attacking christians isn’t a secret. Much of the left is pretty open about it.
You pointed out three strawmen. First, there were WMD’s in Iraq, maybe not as many, but over 500 deliverable munitions were found, not to mention mothballed nuclear, chemical and biological programs. But the left keeps repeating that canard as if it were true. Google it, even the NY Times has reported this (granted, they tried to hide it on page 37 or so, but what do you expect). The WMD’s was not even in the top three reasons to go to war, so of course, the left attacks it – yet another straw man.
Tortured people? Yes, I suppose some occured, but for the most part, when the evidence was sufficient the perpetrators were tried. There have been over 800 investigations, and 250+ convictions (few were actually torture), and all done by the rule of law as practiced by the United States. Besides, much of what is illegal now was only made so in recent law. Waterboarding for example, wasn’t illegal in 2002 – but hey, why let the facts get in the way to yet another lefty straw man. Something like 9 straight courts threw out such attempted lawsuits (back then).
It’s a “straw man” to overturn Roe vs Wade or ban gay marriages? How so, even if you hold a different viewpoint, how is that a “straw” man? Let’s see – Roe vs Wade is based on …. nothing at all. There isn’t a single word in the Constitution that supports the right to abortion (or, for those on the right, that would oppose abortion either). The kind of twisting that it takes the left to make that a “constitutional” right – would make any pretzel proud. Doesn’t matter anyways – abortion (the killing of babies, by now scientifically proven) is the slavery issue of the 21st century. It’s even following the same pattern of early the 19th century. It won’t last this century, and we’ll be scratching our head by then on how did anyone ever support it.
Gay marriages… hmmm. So not letting the left redefine 6000+ years of history, law, and family to create something that the American people don’t support – that’s a “straw man” too?
Now that I’ve demolished your (lack of) thinking, try to be coherent and don’t embarrass yourself. Peace out.
Anne Laurie
Keith Olberman hasn’t spent the last 10 years calling American soldiers “murderers for hire” and lamenting that nobody has the “manhood” to hunt these killers down and “give them a taste of their own medicine”. No progressives stepped up and offered Muhammad assistance in escaping from the police. And nobody at Salon posted an article saying, “Well, murder is a terrible thing, but you have to look at it in context, and these uniformed killers did their best to piss a lot of people off, parading around in full-dress uniform like that…”
Phoenician in a time of Romans
You pointed out three strawmen. First, there were WMD’s in Iraq, maybe not as many, but over 500 deliverable munitions were found, not to mention mothballed nuclear, chemical and biological programs. But the left keeps repeating that canard as if it were true. Google it, even the NY Times has reported this (granted, they tried to hide it on page 37 or so, but what do you expect). The WMD’s was not even in the top three reasons to go to war, so of course, the left attacks it – yet another straw man.
Tortured people? Yes, I suppose some occured, but for the most part, when the evidence was sufficient the perpetrators were tried. There have been over 800 investigations, and 250+ convictions (few were actually torture), and all done by the rule of law as practiced by the United States. Besides, much of what is illegal now was only made so in recent law. Waterboarding for example, wasn’t illegal in 2002 – but hey, why let the facts get in the way to yet another lefty straw man. Something like 9 straight courts threw out such attempted lawsuits (back then).
Is there a special school you have to go to to get this stupid?
Daniel
Both sides are guilty of that. The left certainly exaggerates events in order to make the right look bad, as does the right. It’s a poor topic of discussion.
On a separate note, Keith Olberman has misrepresented the situation in Iraq for years. He was regularly ridiculed for misstatements when his show was on in Iraq-based dining facilities. He’s hardly a good example (and his ratings show it).
If someone is going to respond to my previous post – please at least pretend that the left has some intellectual wherewithal. Surprise me.
Daniel
Phoenician – well put. Case made. When facts interfere with your predisposed worldview, just call me names.
TenguPhule
500 decayed mustard gas mortar shells are not WMDs in letter or spirit.
And mothballed means exactly what it says on the label.
I.e. Not in operation. Shut down. Under Raps.
TenguPhule
Waterboarding has been illegal from the moment the US signed the Geneva Conventions well before 2002.
Daniel
It wasn’t just 500 mustard gas shells. And right – you trust Saddam on the “mothballed” label? Especially, after he succeeds snubbing the UN’s resolutions (not to mention the food for oil debacle). Besides, WMD’s was one of the lesser reasons for going to war – it’s too bad GW Bush highlighted it. Breaking Al-Qaeda (yes, they were there, the intel is clear on this), dramatically rolling up the jihadist movement across the theater (another success), and changing the geopolitical tilt of the war in our favor – were far more important reasons.
I hope I’m not speaking Greek to a bunch of simpletons. Sometimes, the left acts like they don’t understand the concepts of foreign policy, national security, war, or strategy. I’m assuming that if you are on this website, you don’t fit this category.
Daniel
No, waterboarding was not illegal under the Geneva conventions. That’s another misperception.
TenguPhule
Settled Constitutional Law.
See Also, Daniel failed his US government class.
The fate of the Republican party in a nutshell.
6,000 years of women as chattel who’s only purpose was to make babies and transfer property to other men.
But things change.
TenguPhule
And not even 6,000 at that.
More like 1900 years.
Daniel
Things do change. Abortion as legal won’t survive the century. Settled constitutional law? You mean you found enough justices to just make that up. That’s why it won’t last.
Daniel
Historical revision won’t help your case Phule.
Separately, as bad as it’s stumbled, the Republican Party will rebound nicely. Recent polls have shown that rebound has occured sooner than expected – I suppose we have the left to thank for that. It took 12 years for the Republican right to screw things up. It looks like the Dems are going to screw up in 2-4 years.
TenguPhule
Wrong.
Waterboarding is torture. Torture is a violation of Geneva Conventions.
See Also, Daniel failed Basic Law too.
El Cid
Torture is not merely controlled by the Geneva Conventions.
There is and have been over the years succeeding United Nations Conventions Against Torture.
They cover a much broader territory than the Geneva Conventions, which is why torture fans only speak of the Geneva Conventions.
The 1984 UN Convention Against Torture (signed in 1988 though) were the ones signed by Ronald Reagan with this statement:
This international convention, as much in applicability as the Geneva Conventions, begins with this:
asiangrrlMN
@Daniel: WMDs were THE reason we went to war in Iraq. There were none. You don’t get to play revisionist history now. Waterboarding has always been illegal, well in my lifetime, anyway. You are redefining my third strawman which is that the right wants to ban gay marriage. Tell me that’s a strawman.
(by the way, your six thousand years of “traditional” marriage is bullshit, even in your Bible. Look in the old Testament and count the multiple wives that many of the men, including King Solomon had. Look at what King David did. Look at what Abraham did. Traditional marriage, my ass. Plus, women were given away for a dowry a lot later than that. There was no love involved. You are not even arguing in good faith, so I choose to no longer argue.
TengPhule, he’s all yours–and El Cid’s, too.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician – well put. Case made. When facts interfere with your predisposed worldview, just call me names.
I had 30 seconds to reply. And you are stupid.
But to refute you:
i, There were no significant WMD in Iraq. The US’s own Iraq Survey Group had to blather about “intent” and slide over the fact that they found essentially fuck all. You’re thinking of this piece of crap from Fox News, which tries to paint rusting old artillery shells as the “clear and present danger” justifying invasion.
There were no mothballed nuclear, chemical and biological programs. There was blather about intent – some time in the utopian future when Iraq was not being watched, and was rich and strong again, Saddam might try for WMD again. There were no mothballed nuclear, chemical and biological programs.
ii, WMD were *the* reason to go to war. A simple google search shows that you are engaging in revisionism – in fact, lying. See here.
iii, The US has tortured people to death – https://www.investorvillage.com/groups.asp?mb=16129&mn=6336&pt=msg&mid=7259850. Deal with it.
… [Four] years since the first known death in U.S. custody, only 12 detainee deaths have resulted in punishment of any kind for any U.S. official,” found Human Rights Now in a 2006 report on terror war prisoners. “Of the 34 homicide cases so far identified by the military, investigators recommended criminal charges in fewer than two thirds, and charges were actually brought (based on decisions made by command) in less than half. While the CIA has been implicated in several deaths, not one CIA agent has faced a criminal charge. Crucially, among the worst cases in this list – those of detainees tortured to death – only half have resulted in punishment; the steepest sentence for anyone involved in a torture-related death: five months in jail.”
iv, Waterboarding has long been considered illegal in the US. The US prosecuted Japanese for using it, and has prosecuted a sheriff who used it on suspects. And you are ignoring other forms of torture used by the US, and the deaths of prisoners at the hands of their “interrogators”.
Bender
Enough about Gitmo, drones, whatever creating terrorists — that’s ridiculous on the face of it. Think of the logical pretzel. Islamic extremists, who praise each other for suicide bombing women and children in markets, taking hostages, and killing the hostages by slicing their heads off on the internet, are somehow morally inflamed by the “stress positions” and “barking dogs” treatment at Gitmo? Who knew they were so specifically sensitive to Gitmo, yet totally insensitive to beheadings, rapes, and suicide bombings? I wonder how outraged they would be if some Jews hijacked a few of their planes and killed 3000 Muslims.
I’m not saying that Muslim extremists won’t SAY that Gitmo creates terrorists, but the fact is that, as we’ve seen with all MidEast conflicts, any pretext of grievance will do for those folks. If there weren’t a Gitmo, they’d just lie and say there was, and they’d say it was a place where evil Westerners murder Muslims while dancing to half-naked Brittany Spears CDs… and then they slake their thirst with Muslim baby’s blood. They’ll SAY whatever they can get an uncritical media to report, and whatever the mullahs can get their followers to swallow.
If it weren’t Gitmo, it’d be something just as illogical. They’d just find another lie with which to dupe gullible, hate-filled kids.
Bender
Well, he hasn’t been on ten years. Making those statements during hockey highlights would’ve seemed a little loony for even The Sports Mustache…
But seriously…you realize that your post is totally irrelevant to the point (unless you’d like to posit that Muslims haven’t been calling for soldier’s blood for decades?). Obama needed to condemn both killings, because both, as it has been repeated ad nauseum, were so similar — not doing so will seem very telling to a lot of people. Not to the media, of course… When’s the next Date Night??!!! omg!
Phoenician in a time of Romans
I’m not saying that Muslim extremists won’t SAY that Gitmo creates terrorists, but the fact is that, as we’ve seen with all MidEast conflicts, any pretext of grievance will do for those folks.
“These people” are not a fixed pool, Bender. Gitmo exists; it makes it easier for them to recruit people to their cause, and (importantly) it harms the American cause.
You cannot claim to stand for justice, and torture people. You cannot claim to stand for freedom, and imprison people without rights. You cannot claim to be liberating people if you drag them out of their beds and throw them in dungeons.
Are you really unable to see how others might perceive not only Gitmo, but your weasling justifications for it?
Bender
Yes, I know your (and the previous poster’s) point. And my point is, if Gitmo didn’t exist, there would be exactly the same number of terrorists with exactly the same amount of Anti-American fervor that they currently have, for all the reasons I gave in my post. I don’t think that it hurts the American cause at all.
What I’m unable to see is how an intelligent person can pretend that Gitmo is a place where innocent people are dragged out of their beds to be put into dungeons without their rights. Come on, you sound like a cartoon.
But put away your talking points. You aren’t even arguing against my point. My post didn’t say Gitmo was great, or that there was always proper treatment of prisoners there. I merely said that as a “recruiting tool,” it was irrelevant. The mullahs lie left and right to these ignorant children to get them to become pawns (72 virgins, anyone?). They’d lie about prisoner treatment even if we put them all up at the Ritz Carlton.
And again, am I to believe that Muslims think that what happens at Gitmo is worse than the beheadings of which they obviously approve? If so, it proves my point as to the mere pretext of grievance they require.