No one could have predicted that Slate would react this way:
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Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.
SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.
Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.
You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.
We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.
American History and Black History can not be separated.
Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.
Usually wrong but never in doubt
A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.
I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.
Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.
How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.
And we’re all out of bubblegum.
Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.
Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”
Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?
Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.
I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.
Good lord, these people are nuts.
Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.
Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.
Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?
T R E 4 5 O N
Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.
You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Lindsey Graham's Fee Fees / The martyrdom of Juan Williams
Alex
Wait, can’t you and John and Greenwald somehow weave this into your self-rigtheous narrative about how NO PUBLIC FIGURES EVER GET PUNISHED FOR ANTI-MUSLIM BIGOTRY!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAA!!!! THE JEWS RUN EVERYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY!!! ITS SUCH AN UNFAIR DOUBLE STANDARD!!! Reality is a bitch.
Zifnab
They could have at least approached truthfulness by comparing him to Helen Thomas. “Fired for voicing an opinion” has always struck me as a rather lame criterion for dismissal.
Of course, when one’s entire job revolves around expressing opinions, I can understand the conflict of interests. But they could at least have fired Williams for – you know – being a shitty reporter.
Hunter Gathers
Jesus H. Tap Dancing Christ.
A message to any extraterrestrial individuals monitoring this blog: please conquer us now while the human race is still viable as slave labor. If you wait too long, we’ll be nothing more than salty, fatty feed for your young. You don’t want your younglings to develop diabetes, do you?
Short Bus Bully
What the hell is Bill Saletan talking about? Did someone take Juan Williams out of context and manufacture something that was totally against what he was actually saying? No, he just stepped on his dick and said some truly bigoted things and agreed on national teevee with a known bigot.
Trying to make this look like a Breitbart cyber-lynching is just bullshit.
lamh32
Fuck Juan Williams, good on NPR.
For my money, Juan Williams shoulda been fired when he called Michelle Obama “Smoky Carmichael in a dress” on FOX News during the ’08 campaign! As a Black man, who I guessing was birthed by a Black woman to even fix his mouth, to bad mouth Michelle Obama in the terms that Fox News and nem did, and then just sat by and let them do it, Juan Williams can go to hell!
Besides, at his age, Juan shoulda already learned the lesson, that it’s okay to be a Pat Buckkkanan bigot, only if you are a white male. Black bigots get fired, white bigots get political consultant status!
Steve
I haven’t actually heard what Williams said. Is there an argument that he was taken out of context? Was it like “I get nervous seeing Muslims, and I know it’s wrong, but I can’t help myself”? Or is the defense here simply “come on, everyone gets nervous seeing Muslims, don’t fire the guy just for saying what everyone thinks”?
Kryptik
What the Jesus fuck?
This is not even close to what was done to Shirley Sherrod. Was he taken out of context? Was his appearance clipped? Were his comments made out into ‘Oh, see, Black people are the REAL racists now’ bullshit?
Christ, blatant false equivalence.
Chyron HR
@Alex:
Is that why you’ve stopped returning its phone calls?
Alex
@ Short Bus Bully: Please explain to me how Helen Thomas was taken out of context. Thanks.
GregB
Juan Williams has been to the mountain top and when he got there he gave Rupert Murdoch a reach around.
brent
@Chyron HR:
LOL. Nice.
Bulworth
“The Left has done to the NPR analyst…”
The Left fired Juan Williams? Was that the Professional Left or the Non-Professional Left?
Stooleo
@Hunter Gathers:
You sir, have won the internets. Well played. (;,;)
MattF
Mainstreaming bigotry and staying respectable is a delicate task– Saletan seems to be the go-to guy for that. It’s not a job I’d want, personally.
kay
@lamh32:
He’s nasty and small, and his attempts at humor never come off because they’re so vicious and bitter. I don’t know why anyone hires him, quite frankly.
They wouldn’t have to worry about how to fire him if they’d stop hiring him. He’s horrible to listen to.
Ash Can
So according to William Saletan, NPR executives reacting to Juan Williams making an ass of himself on Fox is exactly the same as the right-wing hate machine getting Shirley Sherrod fired for something she never even did.
Saletan should feel free to get on the horn to Williams and ask him to come work at Slate. If Slate keeps someone like Saletan on the payroll, hell, they’ll hire anyone.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
You know, I think a lot of people here are being dishonest; with themselves and others.
It is entirely normal for a sentient human to harbor multiple, often contradictory, thoughts, feelings and emotions at the same time. Our CHOICE of which of these to give sway to and which to act upon, and which to discount is what makes up our character.
I too have noted and been given pause by the presence of Muslim attire on airplanes. It’s a natural defense mechanism; I’m not going to bother to defend it, it just IS. What thinking/aware/honest person will say they have not, after the events of 9/11, had the same feelings? Dishonest, unself-aware persons, that’s who.
It’s what I choose to do with my reaction/nervousness in those situations that matters. Which is: I consider the irrationality of my reaction, then sit down, settle in for the flight and open the book I’m reading.
I CANNOT STAND Juan Williams and have for years found him to be a milquetoast/incompetent commentator/reporter. But he should not have been fired over THIS batch of comments; organizations and individuals who insist that others STFU when they are voicing honest truths, is not to be trusted or given credence.
Fergus Wooster
@Steve:
Saletan claims he was taken out of context because the “Left” didn’t include the subsequent dialogue in which Williams told O’Reilly that “there are good Muslims”.
From that he makes the leap to equivalency with Breitbart’s deceptive editing . Hacktackular.
LittlePig
It’s a natural defense mechanism for the cowardly
Fixxed that for ya, Tim.
edit: Seriously, there is no *natural* fear of specific attire. Instinct doesn’t work on that level. Call it common, if you wish, but don’t insult me by calling it “natural”.
fasteddie9318
Juan Williams is the Felix Fechenbach of liberal fascism.
Short Bus Bully
@Alex: I never said anything about Helen Thomas. Not sure who did.
lrn2read
William Saletan was comparing Juan Williams to Shirley Sherrod which is wickedly stupid false equivalence coming from someone who should know better.
BGinCHI
If he was the expert on a TV show on science and he said gravity was caused by Jesus, then would he get to keep his job?
Why? Cuz he’s a minority?
Fucking Slate: like Fox, but with more self-righteousness and bigger student loans.
Kryptik
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Except that that wasn’t all there was to Juan William’s comments. He tacitly agreed with O’Reilly how ‘Muslims killed us on 9/11’ and while he tried to walk it back, he also said that ‘War With Muslims’ is inevitable. It’s clear from his comments that, while he’s not as far gone as the folks who think every single Muslim is TEH EVIL, that this is precisely a culture war, and a war against Islam.
Violet
Oh, holy crap. I seriously can’t believe they wrote that. Comparing Juan Williams to Shirley Sherrod? They’ve utterly lost their marbles.
What a bunch of asshats. I never read Slate anymore. I see I’m not missing anything.
LittlePig
Juan’s been a douche for a long time now; this is not remotely the only time he’s put his foot in his mouth. And NPR doesn’t owe him a job.
Now if Cokie Roberts will do the same and get her worthless legacy heinie out of her chair at NPR….ahhh, a pig can dream…
LittlePig
Maybe if they’ll offer equal time to “Saudi Arabia did 9/11” on Fox then Juan can get his job back.
Cat Lady
Saletan is a not very smart self-regarding scold, and Slate is just another vehicle for wannabe WaPo hacks to use meaningless contrarianism to pose as anti-conventional wisdom purveyors instead of what they really are – willing promoters of the “we create our own reality” nihilism for the benefit of their corporate overlords. Creed is Underrated being Exhibit A.
Saletan doesn’t give a fuck about Williams except to the extent it’s one hack defending another. What would Beltway hacks ever do without Kaplan?
debbie
@ Short Bus Bully:
If you think about it, false equivalence is all that the conservatives have had these past two years.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@LittlePig:
Yes, yes, yes…you are one of the angelic few who is not troubled by such thoughts. Good for you. And as is to be expected, you give a little twist to my words to make them seem to say what you want to hear. Typical.
Billy
Was Juan Williams’ father murdered by Muslims, who were then never prosecuted?
Randy P
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Me.
Especially in light of 9/11. Since I value my country and its values, etc.
It’s just clothes. It’s not “insensitivity”. It’s not “choosing to make a visible statement that they’re Moslem.” or whatever Williams said. It’s native costume.
I know there are people who think speaking French in public, or wearing non-American clothes in America, or reading a foreign newspaper are somehow an affront to them personally and the person should JUST STOP IT. But I can’t say it’s a mindset I’ve ever been able to fathom.
So no, I don’t have those feelings. I was not personally attacked by every Pakistani cab driver on 9/11, or by the guy with the Falafel stand on Bleecker Street. They aren’t my enemy. They can wear what they want, it doesn’t give me “feelings”.
Ripley
A wind storm blew debris all over my back porch last night, some of it pretty big. Can’t lift all the branches by myself, so rest easy, Lord Saletan:
I WILL REHIRE JUAN WILLIAMS.
Randy P
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Here’s a concept: You may be in the minority here on what you think is “everybody”.
JGabriel
Zifnab:
I suspect they did, but didn’t want to give that as the excuse, for whatever reason. I mean, Williams’ statements were no worse than anything Pat Buchanan ever says. Yes, they were offensive, but probably didn’t rise up to the level of a firing offense (by today’s craptastic media standards) unless they were already looking for a reason to get rid of him.
.
superluminar
Also, too: even the liberal Doug Mataconis…
He includes this gem:
self-awareness fail.
Gin & Tonic
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
I like to think of myself as honest and self-aware. And I fly on commercial aircraft domestically and internationally a lot. Frankly, this is something which doesn’t rise to the level of consciousness for me. I worry about whether I’m going to be seated between two fat guys and won’t get an arm rest, or whether a child directly behind me will kick my seat-back for four hours while I try to sleep. Whether somebody will hijack or blow up the flight? No. Honestly. I’m more likely to be hit by lightning as I walk to my car in the parking lot and worry about that just as little.
Short Bus Bully
@debbie: @debbie: Also known as “White Man’s Burden”
brantl
“Now if Cokie Roberts will do the same and get her worthless legacy heinie out of her chair at NPR….ahhh, a pig can dream…” Cokie should be fired for just being an incompetent gasbag, but then, that holds true for Williams, too.
“What thinking/aware/honest person will say they have not, after the events of 9/11, had the same feelings? ”
I don’t. Not about Muslims. I have a watchful reaction to all people who affect religious dress, from Amish to Menonnites to Hassidic Jews to people wearing the habib. I don’t trust the reasoning skills of fervently religious people.
I have, however, learned not to shit myself in the presence of people different than me. I learned it by the time I was 2 years old. I think you could probably learn it as well, with substantial effort and a backbone transplant. Your knee-jerk bigotry smacks of projection, sir.
JMS
I have to say, considering all the stupid or despicable things that Williams has said over the years in his service at Fox News, having this be the one that gets him fired is kind of odd. I wonder, if he hadn’t been fired for this, if anyone would have even noticed that he said it, or if they did, say something like “why does NPR keep him on?”, but not actively call for him to be fired over it. I only saw transcripts, did not see footage, but my sense was that Williams was explaining that even people who are themselves part of a minority that has experienced bigotry can have a visceral reaction when they perceive someone as threatening. If that’s what he meant (and even if it weren’t what he meant, what I mean is a very legitimate topic for discussion, not something to be shouted down for “bigotry”), by itself it seems a topic of discussion that should be explored more than it is.
Where it goes off the rails is context. There are several things that are problematic about what happened. First, Williams was apparently trying to make Bill O’Reilly feel better about O’Reilly’s clearly bigoted comments–why use what could be a legitimate moment of self examination to soothe the feelings of a bigot? Next, I didn’t see any follow up (the part that was missing from the doctored footage of Shirley Sherrod), where Williams said “but really, even if my visceral response was to be nervous, I won’t let that kind of reaction turn me into a bigot in my actions.” Also, I manage about a dozen people at work, and have been a manager for several years. I haven’t had to outright fire anyone, but if someone’s already on “probation” and they then do something questionable, it might not take as egregious an act to get someone fired as it would for someone who’d never had problems to that point. I don’t know what Williams’ relationship was like with his bosses at NPR, but if *I* were his boss, and he were already on thin ice, it wouldn’t take anything particularly outrageous to make me decide to give him the boot. If anything, to me the more interesting story is what is the thought process in the management at NPR? How did this rise to a firing offense when others that seem similarly outrageous are not?
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Randy P:
Ah yes…here you proudly proclaim your membership in the BJ cool kids club. You BELONG. Good for you. That’s special too.
WereBear
That Slate screen capture isn’t even accurate. So they’re wrong right out of the gate.
Zero interest in what else they might say.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Randy P: @Randy P:
I bow low and grovel before your awesomeness. I am not worthy.
And, NATURALLY, you too distort my words in order to try to make some knee jerk point. That too is awesome.
JGabriel
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Keep digging, Tim. That’s the hallmark o’ patriotic persistence!
.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@brantl:
Only among the angels is your saintliness matched.
And as with other responders here, you twist my words to suit your own prejudices. Good for you.
It is particularly awesome that you have overcome the natural fear of the Amish on airplanes, after all the buildings that went down in that LAST major Amish terrorist attack.
HyperIon
Lots of my Southern friends and relatives tell me they are nervous when they get on public transportation and see a black person.
I’m sure Juan Williams understands this completely. I just wonder if he shares their feelings.
Professor
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Pray tell me: why are you afraid of Muslims on planes? Are you afraid of your own shadow following you everywhere? We British, living in England, are not afraid of the IRA ( mostly Catholic, caucasian and Irish? They have been bombing us since the 16th century. We live with them and help each other. Not all of them want to kill us! Please grow a pair of testes and Man up! We, the people, are in it together and we can solve the problem together. There is humanity left in this world.
gwangung
Or you’re not quite crafting them as tightly as you think.
Paris
Funniest comment from Wonkette:
“So then Ira Glass will be fired being afraid of everything?”
themann1086
@superluminar: That is just too freakin’ funny. I think he needs to become our new punching bag.
Jay B.
NPR sucks. Juan Williams has always sucked. Saletan is beneath suck. NPR hired Williams despite the fact that he sucks and now they are surprised that something he said was stupid? That the “establishment” media is defending Williams for saying stupid things is about as surprising as their complete silence after Thomas said stupid things. There are no standards. If there were, NPR would have told their Republican benefactors to go fuck themselves, instead, they rolled over and their programming suffered as a result. They hired half-witted hacks like Juan Williams. They instituted stupid rules about things like where their reporters can go in their off hours and set arbitrary lines as to what opinion their opinion reporters can say.
There are no winners here. There isn’t a single person involved in this story, Greenwald included, who has shown the slightest amount of common sense (and since NPR is at least partially publicly-funded, I do think there’s some First Amendment principle involved) or consistency in how offense is manufactured and cynically applied to serve some stupid point.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Professor:
Yes, yes, you’re right…the way you frame my post is entirely accurate and intellectually honest. You’re one of the self-deceivers I wrote about.
liberty60
Its funny, when I heard that Williams was sacked, I figured it was a minor issue that would merit a short mention in the paper…
then I see how it has exploded over teh intertubes this morning, and I realized-
Of course! Williams is a Villager, the pundit equivalent of a Made Guy, lilke in Goodfellas, where no matter what a Made Guy does, he is untouchable, and sacking him was like Tommy killing that Made Guy- it just isn’t done!
Randy P
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): I, uh, quoted your words. Including the question you asked. And then I answered it.
What was the distortion?
I take my honesty seriously. When it’s impugned I have a standard challenge: Tell me what I said that was dishonest, and what the honest statement would have been.
ETA: Also, too, you need to read up on the No True Scotsman fallacy, of which you are committing a textbook illustration.
And you’re truly incapable of even entertaining the thought that you may have a minority opinion? It is possible, you know.
maus
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
That’s fine.
This is not so much. “I’m just being honest about my bigotry” is no excuse for condoning this behavior instead of attempting to explain bigotry in its proper context.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Randy P:
Randy: Have you taken a poll of BJ’ers to back up your “minority” statement? Or was it just shorthand to make yourself feel superior and included. You know, like on a playground.
soonergrunt
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
this much is true.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Randy P:
Here are your implied distortions of what I wrote:
Where did I say Muslim attire or appearance are “an affront to me personally?”
Where did I say anyone should “JUST STOP IT?”
Where did I say those on a plane appearing Muslim are my “enemy?”
Where did I say these folks CAN’T “wear what they want?”
The point of my post, which you in your haste to proclaim yourself virtuous and free of “feelings,” was that I ACKNOWLEDGE my irrational prejudices and instincts, and then choose to NOT ACT ON THEM as much as possible.
Those who, like you, claim to have no prejudices to deal with in the first place, are the most dangerous people of all; because you are lying to yourself and to me.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@soonergrunt:
oh so pithy and cute.
I’m a long time OU football fan.
I’ve read more than enough of your past comments to know that you are nowhere NEAR worthy of your screen name.
A Stoops upon you and your house!
debbie
When I see Muslim clothing, it does not bring up fears of terrorism; it brings up the sad fact that so many people in this world believe that men need to be protected from women:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243587/ban-burqa-claire-berlinski
Randy P
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Neither. It was a request to you to consider the possibility that you may not be speaking for everybody or even a majority. To CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY. To allow that as a possible hypothesis in your world view, given the absence of data either way.
Hence your bald assertion that every honest person would agree with you may perhaps be overstated.
Or did you take a poll?
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
I never claimed you said any of those things. Shall I clarify? YOU NEVER SAID ANY OF THOSE THINGS. It was general commentary.
As for the part responding to you, I quoted your exact words, which were in the form of a question, and answered them.
But in textbook No True Scotsman fashion, anybody who says “me, I don’t get those feelings” must be Not Honest. The only possibilities are “you agree with me, or you’re not honest”.
Now here I am indeed putting an interpretation on your words, and it would be fair to accuse me of distortion. My interpretation is based on the data consisting of your reaction to every person who responded to you. Or did I miss the one where you allowed the possibility that somebody could be honest and not have those irrational fears?
maus
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
I’m not a pundit.
I don’t perpetuate and normalize this fearmongering without context, I don’t justify it when others do it.
That’s how a culture of fear and racism spreads, and writing about civil rights while getting the vapors over SCARY MOHOMMEDANS just makes it worse. He’s fucking oblivious.
Randy P
@maus: I missed that comment at the end of GG’s post.
This thread is likely long dead but… I never claimed to have “no prejudices”. I claimed not to have this particular one, an irrational fear of people in Moslem dress on airplanes. And you (GG) seem to believe that everybody either shares this fear or they say they don’t but they’re lying and they share this fear.