We’re solidly behind the Jane Hamshers of the Left on this one.
What She Said
by John Cole| 82 Comments
This post is in: Excellent Links, Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin., Security Theatre
What She Said
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82Comments
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freelancer
firebagularity? All the math decoheres at this point.
Mary Jane
Nope, not clicking any link that may lead to FDL. I’ll have to wait for the comments to learn what this is about. Probably a TSA thing again.
CJ
Nothing like an online petition to solve America’s problems! Armchair activism always works.
Also, great comment over there:
One of these days Alice, one of these days I’m gonna punch out a TSA dude and save the USA from tyranny. Wolverines!
Michael D.
To paraphrase one of her commenters, 9/11 was not an inside job, but “9/11 has become an inside job.”
Or, at least, 9/11 has created lots of jobs for insiders.
Ripley
…and this is the house that George built.
Matt M
I get the sentiment, but the “porno scanners” terminology is Drudge-level stupidity.
Corner Stone
Cole, you just asploded about 80% of your commenter’s heads.
Martin
#scatterbagger!
But yeah, good petition. This has gotten completely out of hand.
cleek
@Matt M:
BoingBoing is using it now, too.
apparently it’s the new hipster-approved term.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Corner Stone: Not really. Most of us understand that someone can be an ass and still be right. See, Sullivan, Andrew. We even go against John sometimes.
Polish the Guillotines
The quickest, easiest way to bring an end to this is simple civil disobedience: Collective trou-dropping.
As soon as they make the move toward your business, drop the Wranlgers and show the danglers.
If enough people get on board, it’ll take less than a week before the TSA itself demands a policy change. Guaranteed.
WyldPirate
@Corner Stone:
Nah. Most are like the one above that won’t give a click to see.
They’re too busy sticking their fingers in their ears going “la-la-la. I can’t hear you” if one dares criticize anything remotely related to the administration of
Saint BarackBlack JesusPresident Obama for their heads to explode.geg6
@Corner Stone:
Nope. My head certainly didn’t explode. I can jump on board with Hamsher on this particular issue. I’m one of those people who has refused to fly ever since Security Theater began playing at our national airports. And for a dedicated travel lover, that’s a real sacrifice. But one I’m willing to make. No fucking way am I willing to have nude pictures of myself taken and filed away for TSA agents’ later amusement nor am I willing to let some trogolodyte with a GED grope me just so I can lay on a beach. There are beaches within driving distance. Fuck these assholes.
eemom
go ahead John, try to make up kissy kissy. It’ll do you no good. The Jaynatollah never revokes her fatwas.
General Stuck
Awwwe! isn’t this precious.
John Cole
@eemom: I don’t care what she does. I’ve always supported her when I think she is right.
stormhit
@WyldPirate:
Yeah, it could be that…or the fact that TSA complaining is literally everywhere on the internet at the moment and there’s absolutely nothing new of value added by Hamsher’s post on the subject.
Dennis SGMM
What the hell did they expect? Hire a few thousand people who would have had to take the test twice to be hired as a greeter at WalMart and then give them the power to push people around. Fucking brilliant.
Those who would sacrifice their liberty for the illusion of security deserve to be groped – and then cavity-searched.
General Stuck
@stormhit:
Except for an opportunity for some virtual ex republican blogger to pure progressive blogger make up sex.
FlipYrWhig
I’m a little surprised that people seem to be as worked up about this as they are, but, you know, stand up for your rights, cool. I hate flying as it is and try not to do it, so I don’t expect it’s going to affect my individual life particularly. Whatever y’all want to fight for, good luck!
Rosalita
she should start a legal defense fund for Tyner. how much good do these virtual petitions do anyway?
eemom
you know, almost everyone is right about something, sometime. This particular rightitude here strikes me as kind of a no-brainer.
That is not to say, however, that it is not deserving of a great big wet smoochy kiss on Jane’s ass.
Now, how ’bout one of those posts about how appalling it is when someone like Ta-Nehisi Coates says something nice about Jeff Goldberg? Villager Tribalism, eeeeyeeeeew!
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM:
I’ve heard a few versions of this sentiment. Where does it come from? Are TSA people any more or less trained than other security people?
bemused
I think this full body imaging is distasteful and doubt it does much to make us more secure. I’m concerned that we are not hearing how much danger there is from these imagers despite the assurances of the manufacturers. If this is anything like voting machine companies who said there were no problems with the machines but no, we can’t see their software, count me as not reassured about imaging risks.
When I fly again and am faced with the choice, I’ll opt for the “pat-down” as the lesser evil. I just want to see a video of the groping so I know what I’m in for. Is there a demo of that?
licensed to kill time
I’d like to see some real data about the actual effectiveness of this kind of security set-up. But I suppose they couldn’t give out that kind of data because: Security Threat!
I mean, the ratio of people simply being harassed vs. the number of actual threats stopped or deterred has to be about a gazillion to one.
geg6
@FlipYrWhig:
There is virtually no sort of training at all required to be a TSA screener. I have one who lives in my neighborhood. He used to work as a clerk in a gas station. He has a GED. He has no background in law enforcement, no certification as a security guard, no lethal firearms training, nothing. Just a GED and some retail clerking experience. Take a look at the base pay for these guys/gals and you can tell that they are interested in hiring unskilled workers.
http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/search.aspx?q=TSA+screener&where=&x=54&y=14&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y
Here’s the job description (notice that it says “high school diploma or GED OR one year experience as a security guard, aviation screener, or x-ray tech,” not both):
http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=91826377&JobTitle=Transportation+Security+Officer+%28TSO%29&q=TSA+screener&where=&x=54&y=14&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&AVSDM=2010-11-01+14%3a05%3a00#qualifications
WyldPirate
@stormhit:
This is pretty much a red herring, but hey, you’re welcome to chase all the little fishies you wanna chase.
The point is that our fucking government is insane chasing the “little fish” like the dude that got his nuts groped–or refused to get his nuts groped–while they let the real thieves and murderers off the hook.
It’s always been this way, though. Unfortunately, I had this misguided “hopey changey” idea planted in my brain that this time, “the leader of the free world”, would sort of concentrate on important shit.
The trouble is, President
Black JesusHopey Changey is just like the rest.Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
I just did some quick Googling. In sum, the qualifications required to get hired as an airport screener are; a High School diploma, ability to pass a drug test.
They then receive some classroom instruction (Supposedly 40 hours although many secreeners received far less) and then go on the job for OJT. The OJT is supposed to include three hours a week of classroom instruction but, I found a number of articles that stated that staff shortages and various other factors kept some screeners from receiving further training.
geg6
@WyldPirate:
You know, that song you’ve been singing for months here and never stopping for even one single minute?
I’m sick of it. Kindly STFU or find another one.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: I would’ve bet money on this response from you.
WyldPirate
@licensed to kill time:
I mean, the ratio of people simply being harassed vs. the number of actual threats stopped or deterred has to be about a gazillion to one.Rep
It’s because we have become a nation of bed wetters unable to assess risks.
Even if we were to go back to the security standards prior to 9/11 regarding aviation, fewer people would be killed than are injured every year by dumbfuck teens yakking and texting on their cells or assholes that still insist on driving drunk.
The trouble is, mere fatal traffic accidents can’t be used to enforce a police state or used by politicians to whip up fear and hysteria.
licensed to kill time
@bemused:
I saw some brief snippets last night on CNN. The pat-down person used the edge of their palm (karate chop style) to go between the breasts and then under them (like tracing an underwire bra); also up the legs “to where the trunk ends” i.e. groin, told guys they were going to touch their junk with the back of the hand and the front of the hand. That’s all I saw. The patteroo described the whole process to the patteree as they did it. Might have been a training video that I saw.
Joseph Nobles
@Rosalita: This. The guy needs a legal defense fund yesterday. He needs the ACLU up front, running interference.
WyldPirate
@geg6:
Nah, I kind of like that tune. I think I’ll keep on singing it as long as I see the same sort of dumbassery coming from our “leaders”.
You can put your fingers in your ears if you like. The tune seems to be growing on a lot of people that voted for President Hopey Changey who are beginning to recognize that they’re getting a lot more of the same old shit that they got form the past.
A good example is that there has been little said here about reports that we’re going to keep about 15K in Iraq for a while and new “friedman units” of up to four years to draw down troops in Afghanistan.
Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac
I was never against these scanners for the “ohnoznekked” aspect, but when gizmodo can get 100 of these scans through a FOIA, and all the other horror stories that have come out because of these incidents are changing my mind.
It’s so offensive to be charged with a $11,000 fine and investigation for not wanting to be searched that such an occurance happening to me is the only possible thing that would turn me into a teahat.
Stooleo
Cool anti TSA song, cause, you know, the movement will need a song.
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: I’ll be honest, I don’t have privacy and related concerns particularly high on my personal political list. (That is, there are plenty of things that I agree seem kind of bad, but I prefer to worry about other bad things instead.) But I’m glad other people do, so I’ll free-ride on their energy. I’m not adding anything to this conversation, positively or negatively. I’m just meta-commenting on how it’s interesting to see other people’s political priorities differing from mine.
Corner Stone
@licensed to kill time:
They’d tell you that it works just like the stone in your front yard keeps the tigers away. Terrorists know we’re stepping up security and are deterred.
bemused
@licensed to kill time:
That’s what I’ve seen so far too. A local news videos and everything else I’ve watched don’t show what happens when the pat down heads down south. What, too graphic for tv!? I love these unalarming sounding words that are used “pat down” or “enhanced”. Don’t scare the peeps. I think the airports should have demo videos of the imaging and the grope down playing for passengers so they can see for themselves ahead of time what is involved instead of feeling blindsided. Of course, that might cause some commotion among some passengers so that won’t happen.
Louis Gohmert's Missing Brain
Can anyone explain to me what possible threat these machines might actually detect? Underwear bombs for god’s sake? Simply lighting a magazine on fire in an airplane’s lav would be more effective than what the underwear bomber was trying to accomplish and we still allow matches on airplanes. Innocent people actually die of smoke inhalation. They don’t die from an idiot attempting to emasculate himself.
We’re orders of magnitude more likely to get killed by lightning than die in a terrorist attack of any kind and we don’t force folks to stay indoors when it rains.
This is just beyond silly. It’s enter the realm of truly counterproductive.
catclub
@licensed to kill time:
“I mean, the ratio of people simply being harassed vs. the number of actual threats stopped or deterred has to be about a gazillion to one. ”
We are essentially the same as everyone else in Europe, in spite of their procedures not being as invasive, they have caught no one and neither have we. But we waste more time, money and energy doing it.
As Schneier says: The two things that made a difference are:
Locked cockpit doors, fully awake passengers. Everything else is security theatre.
General Stuck
@WyldPirate:
If someone reported the earth really is flat, I guess you’d post it on a blog. Otherwise, those reports you cite have been debunked and denied by the administration, at least the Afghan one. And put up a link on the Iraq one, or shut up.
So you are pumping pure anti Obama propaganda, no more no less. I expect Cole will get sick of it at some point, and you can join the handful of other dipshits in the banned box.
maus
@CJ:
Fucking morons. The only thing tangible from online petitions that I’m aware of is getting my name on dozens of Dem/Firebagger donation lists.
FlipYrWhig
@licensed to kill time:
Almost certainly completely ineffective. It’s probably the kind of thing where if something _did_ get through because TSA didn’t check for it, TSA could be found massively liable. So they’re covering their asses by exposing ours.
catclub
@WyldPirate: “The trouble is, mere fatal traffic accidents can’t be used to enforce a police state or used by politicians to whip up fear and hysteria. ”
… yet.
Just wait till we get some Muslims texting while Muslim and then crashing. Of course given the restrictions on drinking in Islam, drinking and texting and driving might be unlikely by the Musselmen.
FlipYrWhig
@maus:
Then again, those can be fun to yell at for explaining why you don’t want to get their stupid shit anymore. That’s what I finally did with Credo when they sent a note inspired by the HuffPo piece about how Obama was “giving in” on tax cuts.
licensed to kill time
@Corner Stone:
You mean my tiger stone is worthless?! But….no tigers!
@bemused:
Maybe we should have to watch that demo video before we buy a ticket. Informed consent, bitchez!
moe99
As someone who gets CT scans every two months, as a consequence of my lung cancer, I do not need any more radiation than I already have, thank you very much. I also do not want anyone touching my privates unless I ask them to. Those in power have become paralyzed with fear. This is not the way to run the USA.
LTMidnight
@General Stuck: And then WyldPirate will go whining how Balloon Juice didn’t respect his “freedom of speech”.
ODS inflicted clowns are so predictable.
geg6
@WyldPirate:
As for the Iraq troops, this surprised you? Guess you don’t pay much attention. Because I know I remember the president saying that not all the troops would come out all at once and that some much, much, much smaller number of troops would be staying until the end of 2011.
And I have yet to see the president announcing your claim about Afghanistan. I’ve seen the usual suspects pushing this, but no official announcements. But perhaps I haven’t been paying attention. Guess I’ll go check out the WH website to see what it says…well, I don’t see any changes to the Afghan strategy that he has discussed for many months now. But you obviously know more about our defense and foreign policy than anyone else, so you must have a top secret clearance that I don’t and would have access to those secret plans.
General Stuck
There are few constitutional guarantees when boarding a ship of any kind. It is a closed society, with a captive audience and no exit doors wise to open in flight. There is only the dictator Captain of that vessel and his word is like the word of gawd. You don’t like it, then hitch hike.
That said, the airlines are a business, and there is a point to which searches and seizures become so odious, they are bad for that business. But the Captain rules the roost on an airplane, and by law, he/she is responsible for who gets to fly on his/her airplane. With guidance from his airline employer, and some further regulations by government, of course.
Southern Beale
Best comment I saw over at that FDL thread:
LOL!
El Tiburon
@John Cole:
Thanks for this, this is what makes you good at what you do, John. That and you are always quick to admit when you were not always right.
The rest of you who (Mary Jane for example) could learn a few things. Call her out and hate her, but give props when it is due and keep in mind we all (mostly) are on the same team.
burnspbesq
@John Cole:
Janey’s on the right side of this issue, but her post is the usual cesspool of factual inaccuracies. She takes a swing, but she can’t hit.
In case you’re scoring at home, “investigation” is not synonymous with “prosecution.” TSA doesn’t have its own staff of prosecutors (at least not yet), so in order for this to move from investigation to prosecution, TSA has to convince the United States Attorney for the Southern District of California that trying this guy is a good use of her office’s resources. As I said in the comments to the earlier post, I don’t see that happening.
licensed to kill time
Balloon Juice is frozen. Taking minutes to load, arrgggh.
Maxwel
Get them where it really hurts. Quit flying.
General Stuck
@El Tiburon:
LOL, hardly. There are no Pumas or firebaggers on my team. That is a whole other team.
burnspbesq
@FlipYrWhig:
You must not fly much. Whoever said that the average front-line TSA employee doesn’t have what it takes to work at Wal-Mart is, if anything, understating the case. I fly close to 100,000 miles a year, and I have yet to come across a TSA employee that I would trust to empty Laettner’s litter box.
CJ
@maus:
Gotta fund that third party somehow.
Luthe
I think the proper reaction to this is to make Joe Lieberman get a full-body cavity search every time he flies. That should change a few minds in the Senate.
…also, you’re welcome. ;)
FlipYrWhig
@burnspbesq: I fly like once a year in a good year, and I try to blot the whole experience out of my memory. (I dislike the airport, I dislike the plane, the whole thing just sucks on a stick.) I wasn’t trying to defend TSA; I genuinely wanted to know where TSA’s bad reputation comes from.
FlipYrWhig
@burnspbesq:
She don’t mean no harm, she just don’t know what else to do about it.
Suck It Up!
@El Tiburon:
I think the others here are waiting for her to extend the same courtesy.
El Tiburon
@burnspbesq:
Wow, you blew the lid off of this one. I got fecal matter on my fingernails just looking at her offensive and mendacious post.
Hey, I found another “cesspool of lies” from Hamsher. She writes,
See right there!!! She wrote that he could ‘NOW‘ board his flight when clearly he could NOT board his flight. Liar liar Hamsher’s panties are on fire!
Get real, this is so juvenile. She used “investigate” at the beginning of her post and then “prosecute” later. It was a fucking minor mistake of zero consequence.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Dennis SGMM: What about those of us that like to be groped?
cat48
I fly about two times a year. If I get screened, I get screened. I’m so frightened of flying that I have to medicate myself before I get to the airport or I wouldn’t be able to board the plane. I’m afraid of heights/crashing/blowing up in the air, etc. I’ll abstain from any action regarding screening because the flying medication always makes me just not give a rip about anything.
Just Some Fuckhead
@cat48: Comfort yourself that should you die, TSA has a final portrait of you to share with the world.
burnspbesq
@El Tiburon:
If you think that was a “fucking minor mistake” and not a deliberate misuse of words that have generally understood meanings for purposes of ramping up the demagoguery, you’re even dumber than I think you are, which I would not have thought possible.
Amanda in the South Bay
I tend to be pretty lenient towards people who work in customer service jobs (considering I work as a grocery store cashier myself) and know just how odious customers can be.
I draw the line at TSA agents, though, because:
1. Unlike someone like me, I can’t freak the fuck out that someone stepped an inch over a line and tell them off. Unless I want to lose my job.
2. People don’t buy invasive body scans and groping at grocery stores.
3. I don’t have the power of Federal Law behind me.
From TSA agents to cops, it seems like people with authority in this country have been…(makes generalization likely to piss people off) in recent years more likely to escalate situations themselves. Like cops eager to tase, or TSA agents who summon a squad of goons just because you brought chapstick through a security barrier, or something like that.
Amanda in the South Bay
Arrgh, no edit function when you need it…
Its like, do you really want some fat ass with a high school education ripping you a new one because you literally stepped an inch over a line, or can’t remove a metal leg brace in order to walk through the scanner?
Most of the TSA horror stories I read that piss me off have to do with these kinds of situations. Agents who rapidly escalate situations and blow their lids at the slightest, (if that) infraction.
Nutella
@General Stuck:
Wow, that’s incredibly stupid even for you. It’s not the captain of the ship/plane deciding who gets through TSA security. The captains get groped, too.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
@Corner Stone:
.
.
Yes, apparently it’s far far worse than when She allied with Norquist on an issue.
.
.
Mark S.
@Amanda in the South Bay:
Give them a couple of years.
I’m surprised there isn’t some enterprising congressman who will take on the TSA. It’s not like the TSA is very popular. They sure don’t make politicians like they used to.
Mary Jane
@WyldPirate:
Excuse me, have we met? I’m able to hear very well, thank you. I’ve never sung la-la-la. Fa-la-la, yes.
“President Hopey Changey”. Cute. Think of that all by yourself?
@El Tiburon:
Sorry, can’t help you there. I don’t hate attention whores, I choose not to enable them. Giving her site a clicky just encourages her hair-on-fire screeching. Why would I want to read the website of someone I think is a boor?
Mark S.
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
.
.
Your trolling has been odd lately. And I’m not sure Jane needs her personal pronoun capitalized, though some people are more reverent than me.
.
.
General Stuck
@Nutella:
It takes a special jackass to only quote part my comment to make a stupid meme.
Nothing in my comment said that pilots didn’t get screened as well. I was simply stating a fact that a pilot on an airplane can refuse anyone boarding for about any reason if they so choose. I said this to highlight the fact that when it comes to boarding any kind of ship, airplane or not, democratic principles and constitutional rights often don’t apply. There is no right to fly, and no right to bypass whatever the security measures the government, the airlines, or the Captain require. And for those screaming about violation of rights based on a body scan have no case, and can take the fucking bus. Idiot.
Dr. Squid
Even a do-nothing concern troll can be right twice a day.
El Tiburon
@burnspbesq:
What the fuck?
Like Hamsher needs any additional help to ‘ramp up the demagoguery’ against the TSA. Just about every single political blog is ramped up to full-force.
In case you haven’t been paying attention, the TSA are the new Brownshirts.
But oh yeah, the term ‘prosecution’ causes women and dandy-boys to faint at its mere utterance.
I am so sure Hamsher was sitting in her lair, pondering what word could cause so much fear and add to the demagoguery in this story, and A-HA!
Cue the scary organ music.
laughable.
Nutella
@General Stuck:
There’s no right to drive, either, so if the government decides to strip search or molest anyone applying for a driver’s license or driving down the street, that would be perfectly OK!
Everything that is not actually listed in the Bill of Rights can be regulated to require sexual assault.
Because the government makes the rules and we obey them.
Or so General Stuck believes.
General Stuck
@Nutella:
You are dense. Flying is a special case because airplanes, like fly, and there is no room for error. Courts have given them this special status for quite some time, concerning safety measures and security. Trying to equate that with driving a private automobile is about as dumb an analogy as I’ve ever seen on this blog.
And I have seen bus drivers throw folks off a bus, cause of all sorts of flimsy reasons. Because it is commercial, and the driver is the captain of that bus, so to speak. Now there are basic protections, even for flying, against discrimination based on race, color, creed, and whatnot, so a Captain of an airplane is on much shakier legal ground when exercising his authority in those cases.
But when it comes to security measures, because an airliner is a captive presence, in a naturally precarious position at 30 thousand feet altitude, the powers that be have almost dictator powers given them legally. To keep anyone they want, just about, from boarding an airplane.
It may not be right or fair, but legally, that’s just how it is. And that is my only point here.
JMC in the ATL
@El Tiburon: Until she acknowledges the inner homophobia inherent in creating a “fagbagger” tag and thinking that’s okay, no. A thousand times No. She would never ever type out “niggerbagger” or “cuntbagger” or “kikebagger.”. No recognition of wrongdoing, no forgiveness. I and the rest of the ‘fags’ will see her in hell, first.
CircleSquared
I am so not looking forward to getting on a plane for the first time in 10 years next week. If it wasn’t Thanksgiving with a 93-year-old man, I would quit now. I remember when I could get on airplanes as if they were buses…which is pretty much how I used them.
ISA gropers…maybe they could hire defrocked priests and just get professional about it.