I thought exactly the same thing as Mistermix- S&P went ahead with the downgrade because they knew indictments were forthcoming. Reliably, they figured, they could count on the media and the wingnuts to use a “CHICAGO STYLE POLITICS ADMIN PLOTTING REVENGE ON S&P” defense for them. I’m afraid to even look at Reason magazine.
It would explain why even though they made a two trillion dollar error, they just shifted rationale and went ahead with the downgrade anyway. A downgrade, btw, that no one else has paid any attention to in the ratings agencies, and a downgrade that has seen people all over the world dump their stock market holdings and buy…. US Treasuries.
I don’t think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to think this is what happened at all.
The first thing I thought and posted here at the news of the downgrade, was what fuckery is this? Now we know.
I think S&P went ahead with the downgrade so people wouldn’t spend the next few weeks talking about their math error.
Maybe Fitch and Moodys use different brands of Magic 8 Ball.
luckily, this does seem pretty obvious. maybe obvious enough for our media to notice and internalize without too much trouble,
Velly interesting. I did not know this. And the fact that no other rating agency did a downgrade, so S and P expanded their rationale into requiring the US follow their future budgeting preferences, which seemed to me way out of the box .
And not simply whether the US is and can service its debt, which there has never been a question of doubt we could at least do that. Why should they give a fuck if we’ve borrowed a lot of money, which no one has claimed we couldn’t at least cover the interest, no matter.
Pfft. Our media is too dumb to figure out anything.
And it is worth pointing out that Fitch actually reaffirmed their rating.
If all three big players in the ratings game get discredited enough, who or what would replace them?
If only. These days the media internalizes narratives that they themselves create. Any facts that fit a narrative are included. Those facts that don’t fit are ignored or downplayed.
City of LA just dumped S&P as their ratings agency. Maybe this will be a domino effect and S&P will swiftly slither down the drain.
One thing to remember is that the downgrade was on 30 year bonds only. The recent increase has been on 10 year bonds which still have a AAA rating.
The stock market is cratering this morning.
ETA: Of course, given recent volatility, it could be up by this afternoon.
It’s a cliché, but never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. I think it’s becoming increasingly clear that S&P can’t do anything that employees of investment firms can’t already do. That their rating system is half-assed, reductive and biased. That they do not have the expertise to correct this.
“If all three big players in the ratings game get discredited enough, who or what would replace them?”
I don’t know, but it’s time to find out.
Also, it increases the visibility of the S&P brand and – together with the Google stock downgrade – it strengthens S&P:s USP as the most strict ratings agency in the biz. Brilliant management.
Perhaps it’s time for the words “non-profit government agency” to come back into vogue. Pointy-headed bureaucrats with green eyeshades are just another genus on the tree of geek, after all. And everyone knows geek is the new cool.
Once upon a time we had competent overlords. These days they are mostly not too sharp and have been depending on their control of the media to fix their fuck- ups. And the cost to using the media in this way is that more and more people treat the media as our version of Pravda-an excellent source for telling us what the overlords want us to think but little more.
The stock market isn’t going down because of S&P.
It’s going down thanks to 30 years of Reaganism (I suppose you can call it Thatcherism across the pond), and the failure to do anything about it.
Or you can be like the Administration and blame Paul Krugman and FireDogLake.
indictments? you understand the difference between criminal and civil proceedings, right? no?
“But … the bond vigilantes!”
Suuuure, pal. The invisible bond vigilantes will appear right about the time that Duke wins the BCS Championship Game for the third year in a row.
As opposed to being like Paul Krugman and FireDogLake and blaming everything on the Administration.
If you had some cheese, you could add it to that baloney and make a nice sandwich.
@Amir Khalid: As long as those three remain “nationally recognized statistical rating organizations” then they’re not likely to go away (though S&P looks to be in for a period of shrinking revenues). The whole conflict-ridden ratings system needs to be completely restructured, but that’s not likely to happen anytime soon.
This is, of course, a perfect example of why you people get called Emobaggers. This is – any way you slice and dice it – a pure lie, seemingly coming from way down the rabbit hole and through the mirror. When did the “Administration” blame “Paul Krugman and firebaggers” for anything, let alone for the stock market crash? Is it ok for you guys to just lie at will, as long as you get to emote?
Villago Delenda Est
It does need to be restructured, so that the integrity of the assessments is totally unrelated to the bonuses paid to any managment types at these outfits.
The problem is, across the board, unbridled greed. These stupid assholes seek, to satisfy their short term greed, eating the goose that lays golden eggs. They’re utter idiots.
That’s funny, coming from you opologists.
Clap louder, or Tinkerbelle will die and will be all your fault!
@Villago Delenda Est:
i’m trying to figure out a funny line about eating smut-infected seed corn. just to stay topical.
@PeakVT: lolz and i got a “ZOMG DON’T PANIC” e-mail from Schwabb (via HR) right after the Dow went down 500 pts.
Timing, they don’t haz it.
yes, it’s the obots who think ‘clapping loudly’ makes shit magically happen. you guys do so much projection you could get a job in a theater..
And one more thing
The Obama campaign is now going on the record distancing itself from the email.
Translation: This worthless, triangulating Administration doesn’t want everyone to know (officially) what they are thinking.
1/10, made me reply
@Villago Delenda Est:
Ding. Again, dark room, filled with actuaries and accountants, crunching the numbers, paid a comfortable $225,000 a year with guaranteed federal retirement. No lobbyists, no interaction. GAO of Wall Street, if you will.
it’s giving me whiplash all right. fun times to watch stocks.
Emoprogs need to feel loved and wanted. They want to be wooed, and hear their favorite fairy tales of sparkly ponies whispered to them in soothing tones by a strong daddy who yells angry tough sounding things at the mean men just for precious them, and them alone, because of their super specialness and purity and righteousness. If he doesn’t do that, then daddy hates them and they will call him stupid names and stamp their pure feet out of rage at his betrayal and cut themselves and then run away from home, because that’ll show him because they’re serious!
Or, put another way,
“Obots are stupid throw rocks at them!” is the emobagger creed.
@cleek: Seriously? Ripping on Krugman? He’s been pretty clear that he realizes how constrained, to understate, the president is by Congress, but I think he’s also spot on when he says that Obama’s messaging on the economy has been crap. Especially so on the size of the initial stimulus package.
You forgot to mention how they’ll sooth themselves with playing at full blast the deep lyrics of the bands that like totally get them and feel their pain.
And then, they’ll go get some facial piercings and a radical haircut before dying their hair black.
I could play this game all day. Emoprogs are just that much fun to mock, because they’re that ridiculous. It’s the mother in me that hears the whiny voice behind the words and wants to sit them all in the corner for a timeout until they can re-join the adults.
Krugman knows fucking dick about messaging, or politics, or anything, really, that isn’t economics, where he is, in fact, brilliant.
Just Some Fuckhead
The Obama administration doesn’t appear to know dick about messaging either. So Krugman’s 1 for 2 is a lot better than the Obama administration’s 0 for 2.
This investigation of S and P, only proves that Obama is a double agent, whilst continuing his “plutocratic conspiracy”, to throw us off the trail of his diabolical designs to own the world.
Hey Chicken Little Cole. Dow down 400 today so far. Why no breathless arm waving spit spraying headlines saying “see this is what happens when..(insert todays agenda here)”?
Do you have any idea what the big “error” was that S&P made? Clearly not, since you’re still calling it an error. It was more like a political choice than an error. Same gutless, inaccurate, useful idiot view of things you always have. Obama is in charge, but nothing is his fault, he has prevented armageddon which doesn’t require proof, and he just needs more time to fix everything. You’re like a constant BS machine.
Los Angeles fights back:
I love a good rumble.