Kicking people when they’re down, that’s the GOP way.
A few months ago, I wrote about a draconian proposal introduced by Senator Bruce Caswell (R-Doosh) which would require children in the foster care system to purchase second-hand clothes. The measure served no purpose other than to humiliate these children.
Well, Michigan isn’t quite done humiliating its underprivileged residents. Beginning next month, many Michigan residents will no longer qualify for food stamps after a new law goes into effect which tightens eligibility requirements.
From Think Progress:
Seizing on any excuse to kick people out of the [food stamps] program, Republicans have mandated that recipients’ assets be scrutinized, in addition to their income, which has traditionally been the only measure that was considered when deciding eligibility. People with cars worth over $15,000 could be disqualified:
Michigan has determined food assistance eligibility based only on income for roughly a decade. A new policy will include a review of certain financial assets starting Oct 1.
The requirements will affect new applicants right away and existing recipients when their cases come up for review, which typically happens once every six months.
Those with assets of more than $5,000 in bank accounts or some types of property would no longer be eligible for food assistance. Other assets that would count against the cap include vehicles with market values of more than $15,000 and second homes, depending on how much is owed on the properties.
Nearly 2 million people — or 20 percent of Michigan’s population — depend on food stamps. The number of recipients has increased by more than 40 percent since the recession started.
Opponents of the new requirements point out that they punish poor people who try to save up money in their bank accounts and discourage them from saving more, which perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Gilda Jacobs, CEO of the Michigan League for Human Services, said the change may “force some deserving families to sell assets, like cars, they bought when times were better.” “If we’re trying to make sure people are viable and can stand on their own, why are we going backwards?” she asked.
Republicans are thoughtless and soulless. Unexpected shit happens which can drastically change a person’s financial outlook, and punishing a person who is already living in dire circumstances is simply unconscionable. But Republicans don’t care.
This law is transparently borne of the “welfare queen” myth which has no basis in fact, and the propagation of which disproportionately affects single mothers and children:
This unsettlingly common view of cash assistance recipients in the U.S. dates back to the 1976 presidential campaign, when Ronald Reagan popularized a hyperbolic framework for female welfare recipients known as the “welfare queen.” The stereotype is sexist, racist, and belittles the legitimacy of cash assistance programs, criminalizing and disparaging those in need.
While the infamous star of the “welfare queen” narrative, cruising around in her “welfare Cadillac” was nowhere to be found by the national media, the fictional picture of lower class minority women abusing the system that gives them monthly “hand-outs” continues to shape the way Americans think about welfare recipients. Moreover, this misconception adversely affects the largest demographic benefitting from cash assistance – children.
The notion that women are having babies, and using government hand-outs to buy more bling and trick out their Escalades is an unsupported Republican fear-mongering tactic.
It is worth noting that last month, Michigan kicked 30,000 students off the food stamps program, all in the name of reduction in spending. And, Governor Snyder has not proposed any tax or deficit policies that would negatively affect the wealthy because of course he hasn’t. Snyder is for big business and to hell with everyone else.
I really hate these people.
(Citizens for Tax Justice is an excellent source for information about tax policy in Michigan. I am going to make my way through it since I’m not positive which measures have passed or been signed into law.)
[via Think Progress]
[cross-posted at Angry Black Lady Chronicles]
Chris
They’ll kick people when they’re down, but if they’re not screaming “WHY WON’T YOU PULL YOURSELF UP BY YOUR BOOTSTRAPS?!?” as they kick the ever-living shit out of the people who’re down, they’re just not doing their jobs.
Corner Stone
After having lunch with my son at a public school the last couple days due to birthday celebrations, I am reminded how badly these kids heart’s are broken by the smallest of slights.
This just makes me want to hurt people, and I am a person opposed to violence as an answer.
hrprogressive
If you can afford an Escalade payment and have money left over for beer and cigs, you don’t need food stamps.
That’s all I’m saying.
agrippa
The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must.
I am not surprised by any of this; the GOP is taking advantage of an opportunity.
LosGatosCA
They are just sick fucks doing the work of the Republican god of vengeance.
Jebediah
Because screwing with the poor and unfortunate is an end in itself. If they were decent Americans, they wouldn’t be poor or unemployed, and so wouldn’t need to be kicked in the face.
Also, a rare pleasure for me to get to an ABL post and comment thread before the deranged ABL haters. I never skip her posts but I frequently skip the comment threads cuz the anti-ABL vitriol is just too ugly and silly.
Schad
One of those rare situations where it`s even worse in Canada. My younger sister had a child last year…unplanned, and the father bailed immediately. As a result, she had no choice but to go on assistance for a spell; the government of Ontario scrutinized all of her assets, and came to the conclusion that she wasn`t eligible, because her assets totaled more that five thousand dollars. This seemed crazy because she had next to nothing, but they deemed her car as worth several thousand. Never mind that she bought it for about $500 a couple months before, or that it barely ran, or that without it she`d have no means to even search for work once her daughter was old enough to go into daycare…if she wanted help, it had to go.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Boortz has been on this shit for years and extends it to cell phones and the dreaded “flat screen tv’.
Corner Stone
@hrprogressive: Please God let us know you’re snarking/working the business here.
Comrade Mary
Bastards.
I need a little Mister Rogers break. How about you? Boy, he was just the wrong kind of Christian with his views about neighbourliness, wasn’t he?
Spaghetti Lee
I’m waiting for the first person involved in passing this law to talk about the “Obama soshulists snooping around in people’s private business.”
Seriously, “scrutinize their assets?” I hope they’re at least willing to pull it off all the way and give the program some Orwellian name (“Department of Property Inspection” has my vote) and hire a bunch of dour-faced bureaucrats to go knocking on doors at midnight.
Cacti
@hrprogressive:
I’m with you Governor Reagan.
Jnc
So how valuable a car should you be allowed to own and still receive food stamps? A $25k Prius? A $50k Lexus?
Bo Alawine
@hrprogressive:
I certainly hope that’s a work of sarcasm.
If not, then explain why attempting to be responsible enough to pay your debts is not responsible enough.
Xecky Gilchrist
Other assets that would count against the cap include vehicles with market values of more than $15,000 and second homes
…and granite countertops?
Water balloon
This kind of thing is just petty harassment of the poor. It’s amazing to me how many people truly believe the poor have it too easy in this country.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Dear Dumbasses of the Michigan GOP,
Thanks a lot for discouraging people to put their money in savings accounts. Yeah, we know that we shoot ourselves in the foot every day by upping transaction fees on ATMs and foreclosing on mortgages that are current- whoops!- but even we aren’t as stupid as to make it such that people feel the pressing need to stuff their money in their mattresses.
Yours,
The Bankers
Bo Alawine
@ ABL:
As a frequent “lurker” on this site, I’d like you to know that I enjoy your contributions.
Of course, not as much as photos of Tunch.
;>)
Short Bus Bully
How many changes of clothes can your kids have? Should you be able to afford for them to participate in school activities (lord knows those cost an arm and a leg)?
Selling off your car is a great idea too, because not having your own transportation makes it easy as fuck to hunt for and get to new employment.
These are some evil motherfuckers working to get us back to pre-renaissance times.
Mr. Tactful
Questioner: But the fact is, isn’t it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?
Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things anda byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying,”We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”
handy
@Corner Stone:
Sorry for the OT but CS I gotta say you’re looking rather prescient right now. Your man Perry is starting to flame out. It’s a long campaign yet and the primaries haven’t started blah blah blah but dude is tanking fast.
Chris
@Water balloon:
Well clearly, the poor have it too easy and clearly, the rich are groaning under the oppressive heel of socialism and the weight of the world that’s on their shoulders… But strangely enough, you NEVER, EVER seem to find rich people abandoning their lives of misery to go live in the moochers’ heaven that is poverty.
Fuck me running – it’s almost as if the entire premise was horseshit from end to end!
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I think our response should be “I’m sure glad Jesus isn’t around to see what you’re doing.”
clayton
According to the Czar of Texas Radio, poor people are fat, have flat screen tvs and always vote Democrat.
Do they have that same sort in other parts of the country?
That’s where it comes from. To be poor, you must have NOTHING. They even make comparisons to the poor in other countries — not for the good, but that in the supposedly greatest country on earth — if you have anything, you should sell it at a loss, there is no hope in other words — be completely poor – – or you are not.
This shit makes me sad and mad.
USA HELL
YEAH
Chris
FUCK moderation. I thought the S word was off the hook?
@Water balloon:
Well clearly, the poor have it too easy and clearly, the rich are groaning under the oppressive heel of soshulism and the weight of the world that’s on their shoulders… But strangely enough, you NEVER, EVER seem to find rich people abandoning their lives of misery to go live in the moochers’ heaven that is poverty.
Fuck me running – it’s almost as if the entire premise was horseshit from end to end!
Quaker in a Basement
How about we apply this same logic to corporations? You can afford a big fancy corporate jet? You don’t need tax breaks.
No? Seems just the same to me.
handy
@Quaker in a Basement:
No no no! Tax breaks give incentives for corporations to give jobs. Why do you want to punish jobs creators?
In other news, Texas doesn’t even think you’re worthy of a good last meal before they murder you.
Corner Stone
@handy: I see dead people.
Perry never stood a chance. People who said otherwise should check their hole card.
We have a long race that will culminate in a Romney nomination.
Spaghetti Lee
@clayton:
I don’t know, because I don’t listen to winger radio. I also don’t bathe in toxic waste or sprinkle rat droppings on my pasta.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Corner Stone:
May I channel my inner balloonbagger and be the first to accuse you of bringing race into this intellectual discussion?
.
.
Corner Stone
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: Well, Uncle Clarence Thomas, I am a racist. I know Romney will survive the race for the R nom.
Xenos
I used to be a public benefits caseworker in Florida, back in the pre-welfare reform days. (I was there for the start of welfare reform, too, which is a different and unrelated set of anecdotes.) We had this same sort of asset policy then, during the late-Bush I recession, but with much lower asset figures… something like 3,000 of vehicle value, a bit higher if it was a work vehicle, a list of forbidden luxury cars, and so on. Any second property would not be exempt, and would pretty quickly run you over the total asset limit of something like $10,000.
We had just had a real estate crash, but I don’t recall anyone living in rental housing but having title to an abandoned but never-foreclosed house – that would have been a problem, certainly.
It was not a big issue… people were already pretty broke by the time they came in for benefits, especially food stamps. The restrictions for medicaid and AFDC/TANF were much tighter, and there were relatively few food-stamp only households. There were a lot of people who must have qualified for food stamps, but who just were not about to mess with the system of qualifying and requalifying and requalifying for them, especially if they have any black market income of any kind.
Since this was all federal money you have to wonder why Florida was so eager to restrict access to the program. The recently impoverished are the last ones to get into such a program.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Corner Stone:
Do you think the Southern and other religionists will overlook his Mormonism in the primaries and then the general election?
.
.
Corner Stone
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: They will all swallow their tongue to remove the scourge in the WH.
Jenny
@handy:
Tanking with whom?
The teabase loves idiots. Their patron saint is Palin.
The fact that elites disliked Palin never interrupted the teabase love for her. The fact that she raised taxes on “job creators” as Governor didn’t phase them a bit.
All Perry has to do is return to Jesus-baiting. In the end, Perry’s god (Jesus) is stronger than Romney’s god (John Smith).
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Corner Stone:
I concur.
.
.
Citizen Alan
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
Let me put it this way: If Romney gets the nomination, I may start going to my parents’ church again, just to see if the preacher says anything to imply that voting for a Mormon was acceptable for a Southern Baptist. Since, you know, he called Mormonism a “Satanic cult” back in 2008.
Cacti
@Jenny:
Indeed.
Where does Romney poll better among R’s than Perry that isn’t 1. Yankee, or 2. Full of Mormons?
ABL
@Bo Alawine: what if i post more photos of nate dogg? :)
Davis X. Machina
@Citizen Alan: That was McCain v. Romney for the GOP nomination. In a general election, all of that doesn’t matter any more. There wasn’t a black man in the White House then. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
Omnes Omnibus
@ABL: Cocker, right? Get posting.
Bo Alawine
@ABL:
Well, I suppose I’d have to see that and raise you with pics of our feline/canine herd but blog pimping is bad form … LOL!
Seriously, I enjoy your work. Keep it up.
Jenny
The media always gets it wrong.
In 2007, they said no one could beat Hillary, Mr. 9/11 was inevitable, they buried McCain, and then declared Fred Thompson was the next Reagan.
Broder even said Bush would make a comeback and be a political asset, stating, “Bush has been impressive in recent days”.
In 2008, they said a black guy could never win, they served McCain donuts on bended knee, and anointed Palin the next Reagan (they fetishize Zombie Reagan).
That the Village is currently crowning Romney can only foretell Perry’s nomination.
Origuy
I don’t suppose there’s an exemption for people with disabilities who need modified vehicles or that can carry wheelchairs? No, probably not.
Omnes Omnibus
@Origuy: I doubt it.
redski
is that 15K of equity? appraised value? what are we talking about here–blue book? how about amortization? a little rust on the door? spreading cracks in the windshield? the ceiling droops too. what if it’s in my sister’s name?
wouldn’t it ultimately be easier and cheaper for the riches, while being less painful for normal people, to just build fucking factories here in these United States? y’know in sayyy…Detroit?
1 in 5 people in Michigan on food support is a disgrace. what is going on?
TenguPhule
Poor people are not desperate enough to mob Caswell and tear him limb from limb. Therefore he has concluded more dogs must be kicked until this state of affairs changes.
Uriel
@Uncle Clarence Thomas: Dear god, but you’re a facile dolt.
rikyrah
I really hate them too, ABL.
you are on point.
moderateindy
@Spaghetti Lee:
That’s OK if cons get their way their will be no food inspectors and your pasta will come with copious amounts of rat droppings instead of just the regular amount that is in them now
Yutsano
@Uriel: Hey, being a sockpuppet is a tough gig.
moderateindy
The funniest thing about this is that it will basically only hurt the middle class people that have been unfortunate enough to be unemployed for a long time. they might own a decent car but are seriously hurting for cash. Volunteering at a food bank just outside Chicago, I can tell you the amount of nice cars in the parking lot is nothing less than alarming. It just shows how many people are hurting.
fuckwit
Let me be clear about this. If you have to walk into that office, and ask for the assistance, THEN YOU ARE QUALIFIED AND ELIGIBLE FOR IT.
And when you don’t need it anymore, you’ll know.
What’s the point of humiliating people who are down? Except sadism, of course. And racism and sexism and bigotry, let’s not forget those either.
Cliff in NH
@ABL:
I concur, Love your posts, And need More Nate Dogg!! Much more Nate Dogg!
Yutsano
@Cliff in NH:
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!
Cliff in NH
@redski:
If they say it’s worth 15,000 then they will give you 15,000 for it right? that’s how price is determined in the free market after all….
So, they say it’s worth that, Demand a trade, cash for the car. Now. or it’s not worth that.
AKA, Put Up or Shut Up.
Cliff in NH
@redski:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/surge-demand-food-stamps-united-states/story?id=14231657
It’s nation-wide, inequality really racks up the personal debts over more than a decade.
Cliff in NH
@Cliff in NH:
Map:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/09/02/demand-for-food-stamps-remains-high/tab/interactive/
James E. Powell
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Right-wingers are always living in the past or some fantasy of the past. Cell phones are almost free and my buddy just bought a 32″ flat screen for $350. Can you even buy an old style, big block TV?
Linnaeus
What’s funny – and I’m sure this is a story well known to folks here at Balloon Juice – is that many of the same people who voted for the Goopers in rural Michigan are also people on public assistance of some sort. My grandmother lives in northern Michigan (a rural area to say the least) and I hear from her all the time about how bad the economic situation is and how people are just barely getting by, if they’re getting by at all. And yet the politicians that a lot of these people voted for are now going to come down harder on the same voters that put them in office.
I grew up in Michigan and have, from time to time, thought about going back, doing what I can to help the place, etc. But if it keeps going in this direction, I’m starting to think, “why bother?”
Triassic Sands
Republicans are really, really horrible people.
This latest GOP cruelty gesture is, as was pointed out above, probably more damaging to middle-class people (or those who were middle-class until they lost their jobs) than to poor people. It’s pretty difficult for someone who is genuinely poor and has been for some time to acquire a car worth more than $15,000.00. However, those who were doing well until 2008 and are now on the down escalator leading away from the middle class, might well need food stamps and have a reasonably nice car.
Of course, if they sell their car, and buy a cheaper car (with it’s greater need of repairs and higher repair bills), then the money left over, will be used by Republicans to disqualify them from receiving food stamps. If they remain out of work, eventually they will requalify for food stamps, only now them will have a less valuable car with higher repair expenses. What a great way to help ensure that people become poor and then stay that way.
serena1313
About 2 years ago, give or take, the news ran a segment on food pantries around the country were running out of food and donations. Because of the recession, foreclosures, unemployment, etc. the number of people requesting help from their local food pantries rose exponentially.
The few individuals interviewed were upper middle-class who had been volunteers, but now they are the ones coming in for food. The women said because they felt so overwhelmed with shame & embarrassment they waited until their predicament had become so dire with children to feed, finally swallowed their pride and asked for help.
ABL is right, Michigan’s new law has little, if anything, to do with fiscal policy, but has everything to do with, adding insult to injury, keeping families from getting back on their feet. This goes beyond humiliation, it is unadulterated punishment. The question is why?
The people who should be ashamed of themselves are the politicians. They are the ones who more than deserve to be punished, not the American people who, at no fault of their own, are temporarily, as a matter of survival, dependent on food stamps.
AndoChronic
I see some nice dubs in my hood, no shit? I want some food stamps for my ’02 Hyundai then!
Lysana
I have known for months that I qualify for this sort of help, but do I go? No. Why? It’s fucking humiliating. I may finally be where the embarrassment of asking is superseded by the realization it’ll save me more stress. I am sick of seeing people in my position made to feel like worse pieces of garbage than we’re already made to feel.
Ash Can
It occurs to me that there could be some unintended consequences here. As has already been touched upon, not all food-stamp recipients are big-city darker-skinned folks. There are plenty of white rural recipients, who have been joined in more recent times by equally white suburban folks who up until the last crash were doing pretty well for themselves — and who might still have the nice cars, etc. that they bought for themselves in better times. How many of those folks are likely Republican voters? And how rude an awakening will it be for them when the state government tells them they have to sell off their keepsakes from better times, courtesy of their very own douchebag state reps?
Fraud Guy
unfortunately, my wife actually sees public aid patients in Escalades, with overly done nails (with purported diamond chips). She also has had coworkers in her health care facility discuss how they don’t marry their partner/father of their children in order to remain eligible for public aid.
There are cheaters, but I feel the best way to head this off is by expanding aid coverage, not tightening controls and forcing people to cheat more.
PurpleGirl
Haven’t read the whole thread yet but it seems to me to be aimed at keeping the unemployed who have hit the end of benefits from now getting food assistance. It’s possible that before becoming unemployed a person or family was able to afford that expensive car and they had a second home and who knows what else. Of course after they’ve been unemployed for a two or three years and they’ve lost benefits they now need any other form of aid they can get, especially food stamps… best way to keep people from getting them is to change the limits on assets that a person/family can have.
squirrelhugger
I think this is progress. 20 years ago it would have been “foreign cars above $15,000”. On the other hand, maybe they just figured out that our wealthy job-creating benefactors don’t make any more cars domestically than the foreign brands.
I’d guess half the clients of a local food pantry I volunteer at drive nicer cars than me. Some hit hard times, some are there because they make bad choices. You can help them, or you can let them sink into the muck. It gets to be a difficult exercise in character and ethics sometimes. Reactionaries (these people are not conservatives, look it up) have lost the exercise.
kay
Fraud [email protected]:
Your wife is mistaken. Anyone who applies for state aid undergoes a mandatory child support evaluation. Any child support collected is applied (subtracted, essentially) from state aid. The same goes for Medicare.
There.s no aid benefit to remaining unmarried, and there has not been years.
People don’t get married for a lot of reasons, but that is not one of them.
Child support and social services share all information, routinely.
In fact, applying for state aid is the reason a lot of child support orders are put in place. The only way the state reaches a parent who should be paying support is because the other parent applied for state aid.
harlana
whatta bunch of FUCKBAGS!!
harlana
how are you supposed to SAVE and move OUT OF poverty per the republican mantra? Do these assholes have any idea how hard it is to get a job these days, by the way? they can suck my left boob and i don’t even live in MI.
John S.
@Fraud Guy:
Yes, there are cheaters. I have seen them trying to file bogus UI or Workers Comp claims against the staffing company I work for. My wife occasionally sees them in her line of work as a teacher. Our friend the ER nurse sees them come to the hospital from time to time. An old coworker used to tell me about the few she would encounter while teaching cheerleading to underprivileged girls. So yes, they do exist.
But those people (the social welfare grifters) are not the norm. They aren’t even a sizable minority, IMHO. So it really makes no sense and is quite cruel to craft policy based on what maybe 10% (if that) of people are doing. It is imminently unfair to penalize the other 90% for the behavior of that small group of cheaters.
harlana
also too, these people believe they are favored by God, if you are poor, God hates you so you really don’t deserve any help and just go ahead and die, why don’t you?
John S.
@Kay:
You undermine the case against draconian measures by pretending cheaters don’t exist. They do. And when you try to claim that it is unpossible for someone to game the system, all you do is provide cover for some heartless conservative to say, “Well we found this ONE person gritting, so the claim that this doesn’t happen is a liberal lie!” And then it’s all downhill from there with the extrapolation and conjecture.
Don’t give them the ammunition. Acknowledge that there are some who are defrauding systems designed to help truly desperate people, albeit in very low numbers that are not in any way representative of the overwhelming majority of benefit recipients.
A Mom Anon
@kay: Thank You Kay,I was just going to say this.
I had a run in at Target last year with a really nasty woman. She saw the family in front of her in line using a food card,and immediately began scrutinizing their purchases. She FOLLOWED THEM TO THEIR CAR and began berating them for stopping on the way out of the store to buy their two little kids a slice of pizza from the little Pizza Hut inside the store. When she saw they were driving an SUV she lost her shit and began yelling about how they were spending HER money while living in luxury on HER money. (I was parked two cars over from this mess)
The lady with the kids began to cry and said,”my husband lost the job he has had since he was 18 yrs old last month and our car is paid for. That pizza is the first treat they have had since the job loss. Leave us alone or I’m calling the police”. This asshole then complained that SHE WAS PAYING FOR THE POLICE WITH HER YAX DOLLARS. I stepped in and said I was going to call the cops myself if she didn’t shut the fuck up and get in her car NOW. The kids were crying,mom was in tears and dad was just holding it together and tried comforting the children.
Who does this? How can anyone presume to know how someone winds up needing assistance? These are not normal well adjusted people doing this shit,not even close. I’m not even sure there’s enough medical/professional intervention on the planet to help these assclowns.
harlana
@A Mom Anon: WOW! unbelievable, i just don’t have words – what an evil bitch
let me guess, she considered herself to be a Christian
anyone who thinks that, for the average person, being unemployed is “living in luxury” will have a mighty rude awakening when they lost their jobs – which i hope they do
A Mom Anon
@John S.: Do your friends who know about the fraud report it? If not,then they are complicit in the fraud by witnessing it and doing nothing but talk about it. The fraud can’t flourish if it’s reported and investigated.
A Mom Anon
@harlana: YAX dollars? LOL,I need to do better editing.
I blame alot of this thinking on prosperity gospel BS along with the welfare queen nonsense. Like a couple hundred dollars a month on food stamps and 200-300 dollars a week in unemployment is really gonna make it possible to live outside of poverty. It also seems to be a sport these days to be as shitty and mean as possible,the more it hurts the better. It’s disgusting.
harlana
since they are unable to wage war on the poor and middle class through complete control of the executive branch, they have turned to the states – which was smart, but it may well prove to be their undoing, since they apparently have NO idea whatsoever how many members of the middle class are slipping into poverty every day
jon
$15K car? A few minutes with a ball-peen hammer and some keys and I’ll have it worth $12K, tops. Shit, I’ll do that for free. Lose a hubcap, let a friend put a couple thousand miles on it for a roadtrip, make sure those sensors say the ABL and airbags might not be working… there are plenty of ways to make a car worth less than $15K.
But I like the put-up or shut-up proposal from above: if the government says you can’t have assistance for some reason related to assets, the government must write a check. Our bankruptcy courts would go bankrupt, but it’s fair, right?
Ben Cisco
People who promote this crap should have to LIVE through it, just so they can see what they’ve been lying their asses off about. None of them would last a month though, because they’re all a bunch of dickless motherfuckers, “tough guys” who would piss their pants in despair at dealing with something real.
RSA
Here’s something ironic (and horrible): Most of us are aware of the huge disparities in income in the U.S. Disparities in wealth are even greater. We’ve all heard that the bottom 50% of households pay no federal income tax. Conservatives dismiss the possibility that it’s because they’re too poor, but according to Business Insider, that bottom 50% (I’m assuming but haven’t checked that it’s households rather than individuals) owns 2.5% of the wealth; the top 1% owns 33.8% of it. (This is inline with scholarly sources I’ve read.)
We tend not to be aware of this disparity because wealth is considered off-limits for taxation. Yeah, that’s great for rich people. But when it comes to the poor (or even households that fall below the median!) the knives come out. “You say you’re poor? Prove it–not just income but how much other stuff you own.” It’s simply not rational to focus on that 2.5%, but I guess no one expects rationality.
wonkie
@hrprogressive: I don’t thik the new regs made a distriction between peoiple who own a car that has already been paid off and oe that they are still makig payments oon.
Regardless exactly how are thhese people supposed to find jobs if they ahve to sell their car? And if they by a cheap car they will always be on tghe verge of a break down which means the expense of fising the car or the hassle of being late for a job interview…
and any way only a really petty mean person would care. The amount of tax dollars spent on food stamps is insigificant compared tothe amount spent on corporate welfare. Rethugs like to make a big show of what big deal Christians they are but what they really worship is rich people.
Dr. Squid
@A Mom Anon: Gawd, what a dirtbag.
One thing about living in a steel town where the mill wasn’t up and running – no one is judgmental about using those cards.
And geez, talk about feeding the cycle of dependence – if anything feeds that cycle, it’s forcing people to get rid of their transportation. But we can’t expect those fucks to be practice what they preach, eh?
Dr. Squid
@A Mom Anon: Gawd, what a dirtbag.
One thing about living in a steel town where the mill wasn’t up and running – no one is judgmental about using those cards.
And geez, talk about feeding the cycle of dependence – if anything feeds that cycle, it’s forcing people to get rid of their transportation. But we can’t expect those fucks to be practice what they preach, eh?
kay
John, I’m not pretending anything. Cheaters do exist.
It is not true that there is an advantage to remaining umarried and thus collecting state assistance.
The collection of child support, and the appication of child support offset assistance makes marriage irrelevant, in terms of qualifying.
The specific example used is not true.
If people are saying that is why they do not marry, they are mistaken.
I didn’t address any other claims.
ppcli
@Citizen Alan:
It will be interesting. I imagine the more Rove-ish of the other GOP candidates are getting prepared to have arms-length operatives, with no documentable connection to the main campaign, to make sure that material like the Chick tracts on Mormonism get distributed widely. (Like this little gem:)
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp
CarolDuhart
@wonkie: And there’s more. Some folks have cars that are owned by others who aren’t so bad off. Parents lend their cars. A relative sells the other car for pennies on the dollar to a needier relative. A boyfriend is still working, and has his. That Escalade they are looking at could be one of those cars.
Flat screens: don’t those people know about e-bay, craiglist, and thrift stores? I almost bought a 36 inch tv for $50 from craiglist: it was too heavy to bring home. I found a flat-screen for $125 at the pawn shop. Don’t even get me started about thrift stores, Family Dollar, and flea markets.
Jennyjinx
@kay:
They aren’t allowed to do that in Ohio anymore. It used to be that the child support went to the state to help offset the cost of aid and then the state would send the custodial parent a $50 check, but that was deemed unconstitutional. They had to give the support to the child because it’s not the child getting the aid– it’s the parent.
They do take it into account as income for certain instances. I think with food stamps, but not TANF. They still require the custodial parent to either have a child support order or initiate proceedings t get a child support order. Depending on the county, though, they may or may not actually go hunting for the parent. My daughter’s father was able to hide in plain site (with me providing addresses) for 12 years while I lived in Stark county. It wasn’t until I moved to a more rural county that they actually made an effort to collect money. Yes, I was on assistance for a while.
They also looked at my assets when I applied. I didn’t have anything at the time (or I wouldn’t have applied) but the forms asked for the value of my vehicle, the amount of money I had in savings, etc. At the time I applied, my car (I didn’t have one) couldn’t be worth more than $5k. I remember laughing because $5k seemed like a lot of money to me. I thought getting a $500 piece of crap was a huge step up for me.
More importantly, though, it’s not just the people who receive aid who sometimes scam the system. It’s also those that supposedly help them. When my daughter was on the medical card, I took her to the dentist. I wasn’t allowed in the exam room because they said HIPAA wouldn’t allow me. She was in there for half an hour. She got a cleaning and everything was fine.
Two weeks later I got an explanation of benefits. The dentist claimed that he’d filled 26 cavities in that half an hour. He charged the state $2000 for that. I called the office and asked how it was possible I had no knowledge of these fillings and how it was possible that the work was done so quickly. I was told “You weren’t supposed to get that. We don’t usually send EOBs to medicaid patients.” No shit. Of course they don’t. And that’s why they don’t let parents back in the room. They’d be busted for sure.
I called down to the Department of Jobs and Families and reported him. He was the only dentist in the county who accepted the medical card, so I felt guilty. But they’re always blaming the poor people for scamming, making it harder for people to get help. I was pissed and wanted to show them it’s not us.
He’s still practicing and he’s still allowed to accept the medical card. He’s also still refusing to allow parents to be with their kids in the exam room. Nothing was done to him. Even with proof.
They continue to crack down on the people who need the aid, but completely ignore the motherfuckers who bilk the real money. No one ever talks about that though. Not about the dentist and not about the neighborhood stores who charge $7 for a gallon of milk. Blame the people in the supposed Cadillac’s. Pffft.
kay
@John S.:
This is under “Things You Must Do” in Michigan, re: assistance:
Here’s what counts as income:
So, the person applying for assistance has to provide information to child support, allowing child support to find the parent who is responsible for financial support of the child.
Then, the child support collected by the state is counted as household income.
That’s what puts married and unmarried people on the same footing, in terms of anyone “not marrying the father of their child to get more benefits”, and removes the incentive not to marry in order to (fraudulently) reduce household income.
It’s (mostly) a wash.
IMO, a uniform, properly-run child support system (which we mostly have now, nationwide) has saved states more money on assistance than any of this bullshit Republicans are always drafting.
But, that’s not sexy, politically, and it doesn’t demonize poor people, so they aren’t interested in pursuing that (rational, good-government) avenue.
Better to write dumb stuff like this law.
kay
Not that it matters, but this probably hurts rural poor people in Michigan much more than it does urban people. IMO, anecdotally, the number one reason rural poor people have trouble getting/ keeping a job is they don’t have reliable transportation.
It’s hard to get to work on time when you’re relying on a car that doesn’t start half the time, and you work 20 miles away, and there’s no public transportation. It snowballs, too. A dead battery is like this GIANT disruption, involving 20 phone calls and 5 dollar loans from 10 people, and rides to the parts store, and on and on. Poor people lead complicated lives. Every little thing is a huge, stressful undertaking, fraught with risk and drama. They’re really living day to day, hour to hour.
Mr Furious
I know the GOP pols in Lansing as well as the Republican rube living in the nether regions of the mitten both want to believe/pretend/portray that welfare sponges are all strapping young bucks in Detroit and their multiple-mom offspring, but with one-in-five residents on assistance, even if fully 100 percent of Michigan’s black residents received welfare, there would still be tens of thousands of white people also on the dole.
kay
@Mr Furious:
Rural white people on assistance is a story never told in this country, just like crappy rural public schools with low test scores and overwhelmingly white student populations are never mentioned by conservatives. There’s a reason for the conservative outrage black-out on poorly-performing rural public schools, of course. Conservatives run them and they’re staffed by conservatives, because white rural areas vote Republican.
It’s interesting, how there’s never a lot of hand-wringing over that “education crisis”, nor are there value judgments made by conservatives regarding white rural people on assistance.
Their voters are above reproach.
Bonefish
Fine, so long as they enact a similar “car fanciness limit” for tax cuts.
Scott Supak
When I became disabled, I couldn’t work for the two years I had to wait to get Social Security Disability, During that two years, which happened to be at the height of the Little Bush Depression, I couldn’t work, my wife couldn’t work, we had to give our house in LA back to the Credit Union and cash the 401K out just to be able to move back east near family and cheap rent. Once we got set up here, we were completely broke, and borrowing money from our relatives to pay the rent. We went on Food Stamps, and they do look at your assets, and if you have stocks or bonds or whatever, you have to sell those and live off that while you wait to be completely broke, so you can get food stamps. Since our only asset was our car, which was worth about 20K at the time, and we owed that much on it, we qualified for the stamps. Now, I wonder if under this law they just look at the value of the vehicle, not your net worth in said vehicle? That would just seem silly to say, well, you have a car worth 20K, so no soup for you, while the fucking car payment is 400 a month!
Just insane.
@kay: Up here in upstate NY, in all the times I went to the welfare office (we got food stamps and Medicaid for those long two years we waited for the Social Security Disability), I never saw a brown person. All white folks. I remember growing up a child in Arkansas, when we were on the Food Stamps then, I never saw a black person in that office either. And up here, they say if you throw a rock, you’re more likely to hit a deer than a Democrat. So, yeah, there are a bunch of poor white folks who just reflexively vote Republican, probably because they’ve been brainwashed by the NRA and their churches.
uptown
Cars devalue really, really fast. A $15,000+ used car (market value, not retail) is likely less than 5 years old and the “owner” is most likely still paying for it. If it’s older than 5 years and still worth more than $15k, it is probably a luxury model. Once you figure in maintenance costs and insurance for a luxury model, it would be an asset that is worth selling if your cash flow has slowed to a trickle.
Matt
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Stuffing cash in the mattress is no good either – if the cops find it, they’ll decide it’s “drug money” and seize it. Good luck getting it back…
ABL
@kay: that’s an awesome point.
DougW
@hrprogressive:
Classy. Sounds like you’ve been drinking the Thuglican Kool Aid too. Wake up and smell the coffee!
ET
The GOP really does think that the majority (if not all) of people on any sort of public assistance drive really fancy cars and buy all sorts of electronics, etc. Therefor this makes perfect sense. I would be surprised if there were no cases of that activity, but by no means do I think it will seriously affect the number of people on assistance to monitor that sort of thing.