.
That’s what irked me, personally, most about Noam Schieber’s breathless TNR long-read, “Hillary’s Nightmare? A Democratic Party That Realizes Its Soul Lies With Elizabeth Warren”. You can’t blame political journalists for premature forecasting, because elections are like housecleaning — no matter how much effort and energy you’ve just expended on getting the place spotless, give it a few hours and it’ll all have to be done again. But you can blame the lazy journamalists who fall for the easy tokenism; now that the ever-reliable ‘Black dude or white lady?’ debate has been wrung of all its cheap drama, it will be discovered that “we” want a female president, so a promising female candidate will be fronted. One female candidate. Because the variety of white-dude candidacy is limitless in its potential, but once there’s a single Vagina-American certified by Our Media Betters, what more can “we” possibly ask?
But to address the meagre TVP-mockmeat core of Schieber’s cover piece, why the bloody hell would Elizabeth Warren want to run for president in 2016? She worked really, really hard — as did her progressive supporters, me among them — to win a seat in the Senate, where she can make a difference in her target financial-abuse issues, issues she’s spent her entire career fighting. Now a handful of Media Village Idiots want Senator Warren to stop working against the banksters and their paid shills, in order to start a campaign she’s said she’s not interested in, against a woman who’s been her supporter and who’s got one hell of a head start in the race, because… the Village Idiots are boorrrred with Hillary Clinton.
It’s like we’ve got a world-class marathon runner finally starting the race of a lifetime, and “some people” want to pull her out so she can compete in the figure-skating trials instead. Sure, it’s an insult to both marathoners and skaters, and it’s unlikely she could win, but it would be so much more entertaining for the spectators!…
***********
Apart from Village idiots being idiots, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
j
DAMN!! Chris Hayes is taking apart Logan’s GOP propaganda smear.
His guest just called Logan’s so called apology “this is supposed to be 60 minutes, not 60 seconds” of CYA.
And I don’t even watch Chris Hayes. I can’t wait to see how TRMS handles this.
Villago Delenda Est
OT, but Noisemax headline:
Carville: Obama Has ‘Deep, Fundamental Problems’
Like we should listen to the consort of Bellatrix Lestrange.
Villago Delenda Est
The Ferengi Controlled Infotainment Networks DEMAND content to attract an audience so they can sell commercial time at a premium.
No different for the “News” divisions than it is for the clowns who crank out ripoffs of sucessful entertainment programs.
Hey, the lickspittles do what their masters command, and they do it without taking direct orders, too. They know what the parasite overclass wants. They deliver.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
I haven’t clicked over yet. I assume he thinks they should mudrassle in bikinis for the nomination while the dozen or so male candidates cheer lustily?
Baud
I don’t think Warren will run.
Violet
@Baud: I hope she doesn’t. We need good Senators just as much as we need a good President.
shelly
I am so SO sick of this constant ‘2016’ drumbeat in the media. I guess the Horse Race! Horse Race! withdrawal is starting to sink in.
Suffern ACE
@Villago Delenda Est: says the guy who called the race for Romney when Obama endorsed gay marriage.
Aji
Anne Laurie, you said it yourself:
They may be many things, WRT Hillary, but bored ain’t one of ’em. This, however, is in their interests as much as anyone’s. Village Idiots don’t know much, but they do understand bread, butter, side, etc. And cocktail weenies and doughnuts with little decorated thingies. And tire swings.
Suffern ACE
@Baud: I don’t even think she’s considering it.
j
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: And Linsley Graham will still hold it up until Aaron Schock rassles with Marco Rubio in an inflatable pool filled with fryer grease from a Chick-fil-A. Then he will have to retire to his office to contemplate.
Splitting Image
The problem is that if Clinton is the Democratic nominee, Villagers whose natural tendency is to talk about whose “turn” it is will have trouble explaining why voters should choose Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, or Chris Christie over her.
Especially after having spent the last five years wringing their hands over whether Democratic women will or should leave the party because of the inadequate black male who jumped the queue in front of her last time.
If Warren runs, on the other hand, not only do they get a juicy narrative of “Democrats in disarray” for the primary season, but if Warren actually gets the nomination, they will have a nice comfy narrative ready pitting the Republican friend of the working man (whoever it turns out to be) against the egghead elitist from Massachusetts.
Their motives are completely transparent.
Gin & Tonic
@j: There are things I don’t need in my brain today. This is one.
Betty Cracker
Bellatrix LaStrange, LOL! I have a general policy of discounting political analysis from angry fetuses.
Am I the only one who is pretty sure Hillary Clinton ISN’T going to run?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Yes. ;-)
Violet
@Splitting Image: No, the “whose turn it is” stuff is for the Republicans. Democrats don’t work that way. Just go as the Village.
Suzanne
@Baud: I don’t think she will, either. And as sad as it makes me to say it, I think that she looks a bit grandma-ish and the Rethugs would exploit the hell out of that. FFS, I’ve already heard more about cankles and pantsuits than I ever needed to in my whole life, and I really don’t know if I have the emotional strength to deal with the reactions of men who are deeply disappointed that the President isn’t hot enough for them for four (hopefully eight) years.
Elizabelle
PBS has American Experience show on JFK tonight; youth through winning the presidency.
KG
@Betty Cracker: I hope she doesn’t run, because I’m fairly convinced Jeb(!!) is going to run, and the last thing we need is Clinton v. Bush II: This Time It’s Personal
Personally, I’d prefer if both families decided they needed to be done with the federal government for a decade or four
Fair Economist
The only people who would gain by Warren running against Hillary are the right-wingers who would get an opportunity to split the Democrats and then have a “progressive” analogue to PUMA working to get the Republican elected.
schrodinger's cat
Isn’t it way too early to talk about the next election cycle?
Hill Dweller
Whomever the Democratic nominee, the Village will try to destroy him/her during the campaign. If he/she is lucky enough to become President, the Village will double down on their attempted destruction.
As Charlie Pierce said recently, as long as the Republicans have any sort of power, they’ll make it impossible for a Democratic President to govern. And the Village will give them plenty of cover.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I don’t think that will stop her. I think she won’t run only if she has health issues or she simply isn’t interested any more.
danielx
One can only be grateful that David Broder has gone to his reward, which I hope includes being forced to listen to the Nixon tapes for all eternity.
The sumbitch is probably spinning in his coffin like a high speed centrifuge at not being able to personally participate in the (inevitable) public flaying of another Clinton, for any reason or for no reason at all other than general Villager bitchiness.
Suffern ACE
@Splitting Image: yep. The democrats aren’t even in disarray yet and they’re running with it.
Baud
@KG:
I don’t think this comparison is apt. The Clinton political legacy ends with Hillary, I think. The Bushes on the other hand have a whole staple of offspring who were born to be President.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: yes
schrodinger's cat
Thread needs kitteh, fashionista kitteh from Caturday!
mai naem
Can we leave Elizabeth Warren alone? There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a good workhorse senator. Tom Harkin, Carl Levin, Jay Rockefeller, and Patty Murray have done just fine. Hell, look at how much Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd and Frank Lautenberg accomplished as Senators. Furthermore, it’s not like she’s 75 years old and this would be her last opportunity to run.
I am watching Chris Hayes and I have never seen this Anne Filipic chic from Enroll America before . Why the hell not? Why the fcuk does the Obama admin have this woman all over the place. She should be the face of O-care, not Kathleen Sebelius. She’s perky, articulate and attractive.
Woodrow/asim Jarvis Hill
It’s tokenism at it’s finest — “we’ll let ‘your kind’ in, all right…one of ‘your kind’. That’s even, right? That’s fair?”
And tokenism is the baseline behind why the Village won’t take the Democratic Party seriously. Not because there aren’t a hundred other issues and situations, but because they will refuse to face the ignorance and bias at the root of their “prognostications” and money-making bleating, allowing their own little circle jerk to continue indefinitely. Moreover — so long as American society is supine around managing these issues, so too will they proudly lead from way, way behind.
KG
@Baud: true, true… I’m just saying, I was born in 1978, 2012 was the first election in my life time when neither a Bush nor a Clinton was running in a presidential election. Of course, we got another legacy pol with Romney
I suppose the Kennedys are a better comparison for the Bushs.
mai naem
@Baud: I do think Chelsea will run for something in a decade or less, or at least be appointed to an important governmental position. Not sure if there’s anything wrong with that being that she should be getting some very good experience running the Clinton Foundation(assuming she’s as competent as her parents.)
Anne Laurie
@Betty Cracker: I’m pretty sure Clinton would, at times, appreciate the chance to not run — to not waste any more of her life ‘hear[ing] the truth she’s spoken / Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools… / watch[ing] the things she gave her life to, broken / And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools.’ But between the temperament that got her this far, and a strong sense of duty, I’m not seeing a plausible scenario outside of illness where she doesn’t (feel she has to) run.
(really, the mirror image of the ‘President Warren’ media fantasy)
PsiFighter37
I will start paying attention to 2016 after the midterms next year. Until then, I don’t really give two shits beyond pure speculation…not worth getting worked up about it until then.
For an election that does matter right now – Mark Herring finally went ahead in the official VA-AG count today – he’s currently up 117 votes. Fairfax is going through their provisional ballots and will announce results tomorrow. So far, they’ve approved 172 and discards 138, with another 180 or so left to go through tomorrow. Assuming a similar approval rate tomorrow, and Herring nets ~60% (he won the county 61-38), he should pick up another 50-60 votes to add to his cushion.
When all is said and done, I think Herring will lead by 150ish votes or so (assuming there are other provisionals outstanding in more Obenshain-friendly areas). Given that it seems like there were a ton of irregularities already picked up, I would venture to say that Herring’s pretty likely to win and will hold up in a recount (should Obenshain file for one). I think Democrats sweeping the statewide offices in Virginia is a hell of a lot more impressive than Chris Christie winning his race by 20% and utterly failing to have any kind of coattails in the NJ state legislature races.
Redshift
@Villago Delenda Est:
Of course he does. They’re called “Republicans.”
brendancalling
Open Mic at Fergie’s, 1200 block of Sansom in Center City. I’m playing 4th. Sometime around 9:00? Two songs.
Mike in NC
@schrodinger’s cat: You would think so, but Koch Bros. Americans for Prosperity is already running ads here every day targeting incumbents, even though the election is a year off.
brendancalling
Open Mic at Fergie’s, 1200 block of Sansom in Center City. I’m playing 4th. Sometime around 9:00? Two songs…
rda909
Oh my lord, you PUMAs are insane. Literally. The fact that you all continue to worship a leader of the DLC as some sort of liberal savior, and who ran a horrific campaign in 2008 surrounding herself with some of the most vile people in politics, and who I would suggest was an average at best S.O.S., is mind-boggling. And now, you’re going to start the process of belittling Senator Elizabeth Warren since she could be a threat to your exalted One?!? Elizabeth Warren?!? Doesn’t she know Hillary is ENTITLED to that spot?!? Uh yea, sure…as President she couldn’t really do much to Wall St. My gawd!
Hillary failed miserably in her attempt to win a national election. President Obama won in dominating fashion in the primary and in the general elections, despite being fairly new to the national stage and by creating a truly grassroots movement. Gee, just as Senator Warren has done! Imagine that. And she’s easily the biggest promoter of President Obama in the Senate, and embraced him and his policies in her Senate campaign. Hillary is the one who cannot win a national election, and given the insane promotion of Republicans by the media nowadays, Senator Warren is possibly the only person who, like President Obama, has the smarts and charisma to actually survive all that and still win. She’s our best hope.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker:
No, I doubt that she will run as well.
Baud
I just noticed that Newsmax is on board with this conversation.
Saw the same discussion on Hardball. It’s the meme of the day, I guess.
Anoniminous
Doing a quick google, Clinton is doing all the things a pre-announced candidate does to gather support. Besides the usual suspects, Jeffrey Katzenberg has supposedly called to offer his support. Katzenberg raised $15 million for Obama in one night. So, the guy has chops. Realistically, at this time there’s no one to beat her.
Warren is being a Senator from Massachusetts and not much else. I don’t see her running. Everything she wants to do can be better done from the Senate than the White House.
rda909
@Anne Laurie: Wait. The media promotes some sort of Elizabeth Warren “fantasy,” and not Hillary?!? Just. Wow.
Baud
@rda909:
Over the top.
Anoniminous
@schrodinger’s cat:
The next election cycle is the 2014 Congressional races. We really (really, really) need to keep the Senate and take the House and it’s going to be a major effort to accomplish it.
PsiFighter37
And my $0.02 is that Warren’s not going to run. She’s made absolutely no noise about it. And didn’t she even sign some letter pre-endorsing Hillary anyways?
Stupid conversation started by a bunch of bored Village Idiots, IMO. Apparently reporting on things like the total non-existence of a legislative agenda from Orange Julius and how the 113th Congress will be even more worthless than the previous one aren’t worth the attention.
Omnes Omnibus
@rda909: Why can’t Warren stay a senator? Why is everyone pushing for her to run for president? She can do good where she is.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@schrodinger’s cat: Yes, but that will not stop some Village types and online critiquers thereof. I agree, AL, that why in the hell would Sen Warren want to run or should anyone want her to? Let her run the freaking marathon; it’s what she’s good at.
mai naem
@Redshift: Carville needs to worry a about the other breadwinner in his family’s problem with the guy who “misled” Lara Logan. Mary Matalin runs the imprint that published the book.
@PsiFighter37: I hope Terry Mac does a good job with running the state. I read that Richmond’s provisionals are going to be done tomorrow so Herring should pick up a bunch there tomorrow.
Baud
@Anoniminous:
Agreed. With gerrymandering, there really should be only a handful of swing districts in 2014 to keep track of.
rda909
@Fair Economist: My god. This is like 2007 all over again. Word for word what people were saying about Senator Obama and Hillary.
rda909
@Omnes Omnibus: Obviously she can remain a Senator, probably as long as she wants to. If she happens to be the best chance for Democrats to keep the White House and continue moving the country to the left, which I believe she is, why can’t she run for President?
PsiFighter37
@mai naem: If T-Mac does a competent job (like another businessman-cum-politician, Mark Warner), it could definitely help more in the long run. Virginia has two senators (Warner and Kaine) who will probably be able to stick around for as long as they want, and if we win AG, either Northam or Herring should be well-positioned for a gubernatorial run next (one runs for reelection, the other goes for the promotion). Warner doing a phenomenal job during his term probably did more than anything to help Tim Kaine out.
Redshift
@PsiFighter37: Unfortunately, it turns out there’s a terrifying possibility if Herring wins a very narrow victory. The loser can challenge the certification of the results, and according to Electablog’s Rick Hasen, “under Virginia law, such a contest is decided not by state courts but by the state Legislature under no apparent written procedures.”
Looking further, it’s decided by a joint session of both houses either in a special session or the next regular session. In this case, they’d probably hold a special session so there could be a special election to fill one or the other state senate seats before the regular session. I don’t know if it’s just a vote of the combined delegates and senators or if they each vote as a house, but either way, there are a lot more Republicans.
I think there’s a chance that they might not be crazy enough to overturn the results of the election without any real justification, but I’m certainly not confident of it.
Suffern ACE
I do like newsmax’s article on this non-story. Now that a Sandinista has won in New York, the socialists like Liz warren are in charge of the party. Therefore Liz Warren will run.
rda909
@Baud: I don’t think so at all.
Anoniminous
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yep.
I’d love to see her chair the Senate Committee on Bank, Housing, and Urban Affairs.
Baud
@rda909:
Whatever.
Violet
@mai naem: Chelsea may be competent, but she’s dull as dishwater. She did not inherit her dad’s charisma.
Suffern ACE
@Baud: it’s odd. Does Senator Warren even have surrogates to trial balloon this run?
JaneE
There is exactly zero indication that Warren wants to run. But I would gladly vote for a Clinton/Warren ticket.
rda909
@Suffern ACE: Senator Warren in charge of the party? Works for me. And I’ll happily have Bill deBlasio join a national ticket someday. I like people who know how to, you know…what’s the word…WIN. yes, win elections!
mai naem
@Baud: If, and it’s a massive if, the Obama people can get the O-care rollout fixed to the point where it’s getting positive coverage, and the GOP is still pulling the same crap, I think the House could flip – just barely. There’s a lot of GOPrs who’ve announced retirements so that should help with no incumbent.
I think hanging onto the Senate is more important because if you keep it in ’14 you probably keep it in ’16 with the presidential election and, there being more GOPrs than Dems up for election.
PsiFighter37
@Redshift: I feel like if the Republicans in Virginia try to pull that off after a recount finds them losing, it’d be the equivalent of lighting themselves on fire. Hard to believe that is actually an option.
Anne Laurie
@rda909: Elizabeth Warren is a really good Senator, and we need as many of those as we can get.
President Obama will retire from the WH in 2016. I would very much prefer he gets to hand the title over to another Democrat. I think President Obama feels the same way, hard as it may be for you to imagine me agreeing with him on anything!
Baud
@mai naem:
That’s how I feel. So much depends on how the GOP handles themselves, however. We don’t really have much control over that.
Omnes Omnibus
@rda909:
Of course, she can. I don’t know that she wants to do so. And I don’t grant your premise that she is the best chance for the Dems.
cckids
@Betty Cracker:
I’m there with you too. I think she went through one campaign when, for years beforehand, everyone was telling her it was HERS. And she lost. Then she sucked it up & became a kick-ass SOS. Why dive back into the viper pit? She does have a number of strikes against her, and the rabid hate of the wingers to live through.
Baud
@Suffern ACE:
I don’t know. She has a lot of supporters, obviously. But I don’t know if she has any kind of organization yet that could handle even exploring a presidential run. She’s pretty new to politics.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
At this moment, I’d say the chances are 6/5 and pick ’em. If we see the same old turn-out we have been getting – ~42% – we won’t. If we can expand voter turn-out to 48% or 50% I’d say we’d do it.
AAs can’t do it alone. We need to get the loosely attached (read: youngs) off their goddamn asses and into the voting booths. I don’t want to go through another night of watching the GOP continue to hold winnable seats.
ETA: as mai naem pointed out, there’s some seats opening up
Laertes
@Anoniminous:
“Warren is being a Senator from Massachusetts and not much else.”
If you’re old enough to drive, you’re old enough to remember the last time the Democrats nominated a first-term senator, and last time they nominated a senator from Massachusetts. It seems pretty near-fetched to me.
@Suzanne:
“I think that she looks a bit grandma-ish and the Rethugs would exploit the hell out of that.”
I can see that. They’ve already declared war on latinos, African-Americans, and women. Why not alienate the elderly too? Fat lot of good it’ll do them. Clinton is a badass, and nobody cares that she doesn’t have the body of a woman half her age. I’d much rather be the party that takes Hillary Clinton seriously than the party that takes Sarah Palin seriously.
@cckids:
“She does have a number of strikes against her, and the rabid hate of the wingers to live through.”
The wingers hate for her is a reason for her to run, not a reason to sit it out.
Baud
@Anoniminous:
Sounds right. Virginia is interesting. Turnout apparently was around normal for the governor’s race, but we won this time. I take that to be a good sign about 2014.
rda909
@Anne Laurie: @Anne Laurie: We also need really good Presidents. Based upon decades of watching her and her husband operate (let’s face it, he’d be part of the equation in a big way), I have no confidence Hillary would be a really good President, even in the remote chance she would even win a national election. Guess we’ll agree to disagree.
Kay
I think Clinton’s running and Warren’s not running.
Also Kasich is running IMO, if he wins a second term, which of course I hope he doesn’t. So all you Christie lovers just look out :)
rda909
@cckids: “became a kick-ass SOS.”
How so?
PsiFighter37
@Kay: Won’t Teabaggers want to kneecap Kasich for expanding Medicaid? They’re even worse purity trolls than firebaggers, IMO…
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: I sat right behind a Kasich in a movie theater in Columbus back in the 90s; I still regret not kicking the back of seat throughout the movie.
lamh36
Talking about “there can be only one”.
Um, hello, I’m just watching the BEST MOVIE MADE FROM A VIDEO GAME EVER: Mortal Kombat!!!
Man, I was all about Sonya, Liu Kang, Lord Raiden and Johnny Cage!!!
http://youtu.be/DT4nmnr6fWk
Jeffro
Elizabeth Warren’s gonna be a very useful tool, just by example, all by herself, whether she runs or not, for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign. She makes Clinton look centrist by comparison (which she is) and experienced by comparison (which she is), totally ‘normalizes’ a woman running for president when there’s more than one, and will help Clinton continue to draw in the truly big bucks from all comers (including, unfortunately, Wall Street), dwarfing whatever Warren may bring in.
I’m not seeing a downside here. Run, Elizabeth! Or don’t!
Suzanne
@rda909: Why do you seem to think that most of us aren’t supportive of Warren? Most of us are deeply pragmatic and will support the candidate with whom we agree more often than not who has the best chance of winning. I think Clinton has a better chance of winning a presidential election than Warren, and I think Warren is already in a good position to forward the goals she cares about deeply, so I would probably conclude that strategically it would be better for Clinton to run for the presidency and Warren to stay in the Senate. That doesn’t mean I don’t have enormous respect for Warren. In fact, I think she’s absolutely the shit.
cckids
@PsiFighter37: Rachel Maddow is just now going through the shenanigans in Fairfax County there; I’d say the BS coming from the Cooch’s office (changing the rules in Fairfax only) was unbelievable, but . . . nothing, NOTHING the Repubs do to try to disenfranchise Democrats is not believable. There is no floor to their disgraceful behavior.
JoyfulA
@mai naem: Chelsea’s mother-in-law is running for Congress.
Jeffro
@PsiFighter37: I think it’s highly likely he’s going to file for a recount! Glad we moved here this summer and were able to contribute 2 of Herring’s MOV votes (I should have t-shirts printed for me and Mrs. Jeffro!!)
Kay
@PsiFighter37:
I think they’ll all vote for Kasich, just like they all voted for Romney.
One good thing the Tea Party are doing that is divisive and counter-productive in Ohio is trying to put RTW on the ballot and Kasich doesn’t want to deal with RTW in an election year.
I met the Dem challenger to Kasich and I was impressed. He’s insanely ambitious and really aggressive and he’s campaigning constantly a year out.
I do think if Kasich is re-elected he’ll run for President, though, and he’ll be taken seriously as a two term Ohio governor versus Christie.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
IIRC, you’re in Virginia. Have any idea if there’s a opening to flip some of those seats?
In New Mexico we’ll hold the 1st and 3rd CDs. Taking the second from Pierce is going to be a tough job. Gonna give a whack, tho’. :-)
Baud
@Kay:
Aren’t they saying the same about Scott Walker? There are going to be a lot of people in the GOP primary, I think.
fuckwit
This horserace village bullshit is useless and stupid. They’re idiots.
I want Elizabeth Warren to run and win because she understands what is wrong with this country and what needs to be done to fix it. I want a President who gets that. I know, I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. Shouldn’t be elections be about who best reflects your views and works for your agenda, who shares and gives voice to your vision for the country? That’d be Warren, thanks, and a few others.
Not because of horserace bullshit, who can win, what are the “optics”, I don’t give a damn. But because I like what she stands for and how she goes about it. And I’m one of those people who, given a choice (and a primary is supposed to be one of those choices), likes to vote conscience.
What does Clinton stand for? Anyone, anyone? Ambition? Winning? What’s her vision for America? I don’t much care for her or her husband, sorry. They both seem smarmy to me. Smart and competent– he did a good job as President and she did a great job as Secretary of State– but neither of them seems to have much of a sincere committment to anything grander than themselves.
Jeffro
@Kay: But didn’t Kaisch also go for the Obamacare Medicaid expansion? And compared to Christie…or a bowl of white rice…Kaisch’s kinda boring.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
This MNF matchup between Team Bullying and The Coach Most Likely to Do Something Horribly Unsportsmanlike is pretty depressing.
cckids
@Laertes:
I’m just saying, that for her as a human being, she has put up with it for 2+ decades now, with a spittle-flecked intensity they’ve only given to one other person – Pres. Obama. She’ll be 69, right? Facing that down every day has got to be just f*cking exhausting on an emotional & physical level.
Baud
@Anoniminous:
I’m not in Virginia. My understanding is that there aren’t many swing districts there. That said, the sequester will hit Virginia hard next year, and who knows how that will shake things up, if at all.
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think he’ll be the big upset entry versus Christie. Pundits will love that. “Ohio! Republicans can’t win without it!” Chris Matthews wil be beside himself with glee.
So he must be stopped :)
Rex Everything
@schrodinger’s cat: YES. The current presidential term is LESS THAN A YEAR OLD.
Come on, people.
burnspbesq
This is ca-ca, and the person who insists on throwing it in your face is not your friend.
Omnes Omnibus
@Rex Everything: 2014 is kind of a big deal, I think.
Kay
@Baud:
Right, but you will admit that Christie, Kasich and Walker would be a generally better field than Bachmann, Gingrich, Santorum and Perry, right? It’ll be harder in 2016 than it was in 2012.
IowaOldLady
I live in Bruce Braley’s district in Iowa. In 2014, he’s likely to replace Tom Harkin, who’s retiring from the Senate. I’ve been getting notices about a person who’s likely to run for Braley’s House seat, Anesa Kajtazovic. She’s a 28 year old who now serves in the Iowa legislature and came to the US as a Bosnian refugee.
If she runs and wins, she’d be the first woman Senator, representative congressperson, or governor from Iowa.
MomSense
@fuckwit:
I will only vote for Clinton if she is the nominee.
Baud
@Rex Everything:
True. But everything is in slow motion because of the Do Worse than Nothing GOP House, so we’re speculating about 2016.
Betty Cracker
Gott damn! The winless Bucs just got a safety to go up 12-zip.
Kay
@Baud:
So Clinton could have a relatively easy primary and a very tough general election, because it isn’t going to be clown car on the GOP side, it’ll be governors as far as the eye can see.
But I’m just speculating.
Baud
@Kay:
Yes, but I can see Perry and Santorum throwing their hats in again, and you’ll also have Cruz and Paul.
Jeffro
@Kay: Christie limps and pummels, and pummels and limps, his way to the nom, only to have Cruz very publicly note that Christie can’t win without Tea Party support…meaning, Cruz on the ticket.
(Cruz of course will do no actual campaigning until Christie-Eve)
Landddsliiiiiiidddddddeeeeeeeee!
Ah well, a guy can dream…
Anoniminous
@Baud:
My bad. My memory is becoming a sieve: pour things in and they pour right back out.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: I think both Cruz and Santorum (next in line) will run.
Kay
@Baud:
But none of those people will be the GOP nominee.
Baud
@Kay:
It really is speculating because we don’t know what issues will be at the top of voters’ minds in 2016.
Rex Everything
@Betty Cracker: But the important question is who will be in the Superbowl following the 2016 season.
hells littlest angel
Harry Reid will retire eventually, and I think Warren would make a GREAT majority leader.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Isn’t Paul Ryan the next in line?
p.a.
@cckids: you go Hil. Let’s get Lanny Davis back in government.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat: Ryan didn’t run in any primaries. Santorum was the clear number two in the primaries.
raven
@Betty Cracker: I see Dave Wannstedt is on the sidelines, no wonder they are so bad,
NotMax
@Elizabelle
Here’s a list of most of the JFK-related TV programs scheduled this month.
Not at all looking forward to the resurrection of any of the hundreds of untenable conspiracy theories. The case has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Good items to point out to conspiracy enablers: From the 40th anniversary, and from the 30th anniversary.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: “Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left….”
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Doesn’t being a VP candidate on the losing ticket count for anything? Plus the media lubs him, or at least used to.
mai naem
@IowaOldLady: Wow, that has to be one of the very few states where there haven’t been big female elected offices. I could see this in a small single Rep state like Wyoming or Vermont but Iowa?
@Jeffro: He doesn’t have to pay for it if it’s less than .5 percent which it sounds like it’s going to.
@Kay: I think there’ll be a boomlet for Suzanna Martinez and/or Brian Sandoval because of their brown skin. Also too, you forgot Bobby Jindal, Mary Failin, Brownback, Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, Steve King, Peter King, Rick Perry and Paul Ryan.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat: I can’t think of an example of it leading to a viable candidacy. Loser stink. The second place in the primaries guy can argue that “I would have won if you had picked me.”
mai naem
@hells littlest angel: Chuck Schumer will be the next majority leader, not Liz Warren, when Reid retires. The Senate’s a seniority thing. I would eat my non-existent hat if Liz Warren is the majority leader within the next five years. Patty Murray ran the DSCC and has more chits than Warren.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
Am I missing something? Isn’t this just a re-hash of Obama’s “you didn’t build that” speech?
Warren, Clinton…whatever. Any democratic candidate is preferable to any republican candidate for pres.
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus: My point. I think Cruz waits to pounce until there’s a clear nom, then extorts his way onto the ticket as VP. For “balance”.
NotMax
@Anne Laurie
Actually, January 2017.
And no president “hands the title over.” The electorate (technically, by way of the electoral college) does that.
Omnes Omnibus
@hells littlest angel: Why? I am not knocking her; I just don’t know that the skill set needed to be Majority Leader is the skill set she has. I see her best placed in a Committee Chair.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Santorum is cray-cray.
PsiFighter37
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed. Bitch about Chuck Schumer all you want, but to me he’s the next clear choice for Majority Leader once Reid steps down / retires. I would make sure the next whip is one of the newer generation of senators (thinking someone like Jeff Merkley – though TBH, I’m not sure who would be considered of rank after Reid, Durbin, Schumer, and Murray)…and would also make they are from medium-dark blue states.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat: I know. Fetus-in-a-jar cray-cray.
ETA: I think there are elements of the GOP who crave the cray.
Betty Cracker
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): The Warren clip above was recorded about a year before Obama’s “You Didn’t Build That” speech.
Keith G
More often than not, the person who becomes president is not the soul of their party. In fact they are far from it.
All successful candidates for the modern American Presidency are skilled operators and pretty good posers. The message they craft is a creation of pragmatic reality and not ideological soul. That’s as true for Obama as it was for Nixon. Truth telling is a handicapping condition.
An Elizabeth Warren behaving as the Lizzie W we love, would. not. stand. a. chance.
Cain
@shelly:
it’s like an early christmas. THey’ve started talking about 2016 4 years before the election. Basically, these folks want an early election season with people who go after each other so they can churn up a shitload of page clicks, dumbass chicanery, and try get people to keep their eyes glued to the screen.
We might get lucky and a missing white doll will go missing in the Carribean (I don’t really want to anyone to go missing honestly) and they can cover that.
hells littlest angel
@mai naem: It’s an elected position. Reid is not the most senior Senate Democrat. Yeah, yeah, politics. I didn’t say she’d be the next, only that she’d be good at it.
hells littlest angel
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, she strikes fear into the hearts of Republicans, which seems to be the only thing those motherfuckers understand.
Gin & Tonic
@Cain: 4 years before the election
4 years? Hardly. It’s now only 798 days until the 2016 NH primary.
catclub
@Keith G: “More often than not, the person who becomes president is not the soul of their party. In fact they are far from it.”
Interesting idea. But I would view Nixon, Reagan, GWBush and LBJ as being the soul of their party, at the time.
(I know LBJ fell into the job, but still, consider the conflicts the Democratic party was dealing with during his time – war, southern democrats and northern liberals, Scoop Jackson)
How about Bill Clinton, too?
stinger
@mai naem:
Iowa shares this distinction with, I believe, Mississippi.
We did have a female Supreme Court Chief Justice, but the Mormon and Catholic churches spent a ton of money and defeated her (and two other justices) in the retention election that followed the court’s unanimous pro-marriage equality ruling. Marriage equality continues in Iowa anyway.
billB
C Schumer is a smart man but he is a lap dog for the dirt bags on wally street that would happily sell our country to the first bidder. I see our NW Gal Patty Murray getting the big gavel. She has worked hard for the Party. I imagine our ORE. Senators would throw their support in, as would the Lady Senators from CA.
Omnes Omnibus
@billB: Schumer has a seat for life. He is perfectly capable of being an asshole to get things done. I am pretty sure he knows where all the bodies are buried. I would put my money on his getting the job. He’ll be effective.
piratedan
well before we all go off the deep end, how about we wait about 18-20 months and see who declares their intent. I don’t mind a competitive primary, more choices are better than no choices, but it’s pretty much a guarantee, no matter who gets nominated on the Dem side, I will vote for them, poni or not.
Suffern ACE
i think we can all agree that Senator Warren would be an excellent candidate for the Democratic Party nomination, but that she should concede now that she’s made her point for the sake of party unity.
jc
I wish Ms. Clinton was working against the banksters instead of the cozy relationship she enjoys. And yes, it’s too early for Ms. Warren to run for president, but I definitely prefer her approach to economic policies.
Omnes Omnibus
@jc: The last perfect candidate was nailed to a piece of wood over 2000 years ago.
David Koch
Because it would be her best chance, given her age. She would be 67 in 2016. If she waits for Hillary to serve two terms, then she would be 75 before she could run.
Omnes Omnibus
@David Koch: I don’t think either Clinton or Warren will be real candidates for the nomination in ’16. Gillibrand, O’Malley, and others will be there. Obama was a generational change; pure Boomers are have had their time. Take Bill and George and deal with it.
David Koch
????
She was Republican who voted for Nixon and Reagan twice, only becoming a Democrat in 1995 during the DLC reign of Blue-Dog Clinton. She was a bankruptcy professor who enthusiastically supported TARP. It’s not as if she was Robin Hood.
How can one senator make any difference in a divided Congress with filibuster and arcane parliamentary hurdles.
How do you know what she wants. Actions speak louder than words and she’s not acting like someone who just wants to be a senator from a liberal state and not the head of a national ticket. That’s why she refused to criticize drones and the collection of telephone metadata and declined to defend snowden.
Oh, the dramatics.
I was wondering how Hillary’s supporters would react to the slightest discussion of Warren taking on Hillary from the left, and I see it’s the “Warren is too good for the job” card.
It’s beyond me how anyone claiming to be a liberal could support Wall Street’s candidate over a true progressive like Elizabeth Warren. But then, with Hillary, it has never been ideals and principal, has it.
Let’s have a race and may the best person (Elizabeth Warren) win. But let’s not stamp out any discussion.
David Koch
@fuckwit:
This.
Exactly. Is Hillary’s prospects so weak we’re now forbidden from even discussing other potential candidates.
Mike D.
Exactly how is it that the people advancing a second woman into the conversation for the nomination are engaging in tokenism, while the people trashing that second woman’s prospects and reasons to run are in a place to condemn it as tokenism? It seems to me that all that’s happening here are people are preemptively shooting down emerging threats to their preferred candidate, period, end of story.
Matt McIrvin
Seems to me Scheiber doesn’t actually think Warren would make a good candidate; he’s just concocting a “Democrats in disarray!” story before it even shows any sign of happening.
(If Warren or some other member of the progressive wing did run and present a signficant challenge, it’d probably be good for the party’s prospects. I remember a lot of hand-wringing in 2008 about how the long, hard primary fight was excellent news for McCain. If anything, it seemed to energize Democrats and get them interested in the election, and post-nomination PUMAs were mostly an empty threat.)
MomSense
@Mike D.:
This.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: In fact, at the time, I remember Obama’s speech being described as probably inspired by Warren’s.
Matt McIrvin
…I do remember far more Internet progressives saying “I will stay home or vote Green if Clinton is nominated” than the same for Obama. I suspect, though, that they were not actually a force capable of swinging the election. They were probably exceeded in number by white Appalachian Clinton supporters who wouldn’t vote for Obama.
And, at the time (pre-financial crash), the progressive objection to Clinton was mostly over foreign policy, on which subject Elizabeth Warren, unlike 2008-model Barack Obama, doesn’t particularly distinguish herself from Hillary Clinton.
TomG
Late to commenting, but this was EXACTLY what frustrated me with David Paterson in New York. The dude was a great minority leader in the state Senate, they were on the verge of tipping into the majority primarily due to his leadership, and then the powers-that-be decide…to make him the Lt. Governor candidate with Eliot Spitzer. Even BEFORE Spitzer’s scandal, that never made sense, Paterson needed to stay in the Senate where he was doing his work.
artem1s
@Kay:
second term or not, please let this happen. maybe this time the D party will remember that he used to work for Lehman and Faux news when they are putting together their attack ads. also, I think someone this virulently opposed to unions and anti-worker, will strengthen the turn out of working poor and further alienate them from the Rs.
shorter version, K will continue to double down on hatred of all things not white, dead, and male, further weakening the wingnut party and hastening their demise.
Quiddity
@fuckwit:
She stands for nothing. Exhibit A is her vote on the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill.
Some Democrats, like Obama, voted against it. Some conserva-Dems voted for it.
Hillary was the only senator who did not cast a vote on that change in bankruptcy law. A change that makes it harder on the middle class and many, many others.
Courage!