Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Bark louder, little dog.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

This really is a full service blog.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

You are here: Home / Jeffrey Goldberg Concern Trolls About Dead Muslims In Not-Gaza

Jeffrey Goldberg Concern Trolls About Dead Muslims In Not-Gaza

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Concern trolling is a fine art in politics, especially on the Internets.

Case in point: Jeffrey Goldberg, Atlantic and Bloomberg View staffer who writes almost exclusively about Israel and perceived threats to Israel (he’s a former Israeli prison guard who admitted to beating prisoners, FYI).

Now, he’s complaining people are writing too much about Israel:

mackey

He wrote a whole article about how Syria is being ignored and people are “obsessed” with Gaza.

Goldberg pointing to Other Dead Muslims to distract from Israeli behavior isn’t new. Here he is in 2012:

goldbeg

If there were enough Muslims in the press to be offended by this tactic, they would probably call him out on it. It’s pretty obvious why the U.S. should be focused on Gaza and in particular the American press — because our political system is arming Israel and defending it, it isn’t arming or defending Assad or Boko Haram. It’s also been going on for fifty years of statelessness for the Palestinians.

By the way, Goldberg had a long interview with Obama in 2012, asking him about  Israels nemesis Iran but not Pakistan once.

UPDATE:

Just had to add this line in the aforementioned Goldberg column:

Judging by the number and scale of anti-Assad protests (or anti-ISIS protests) in the Muslim world, she is obviously on to something. The Muslim world does seem more interested in Arabs who are killed by Jews than in Arabs killed by Arabs, and I’m guessing that this influences the scope and scale of the Gaza coverage as well. 

I have been flooded with invitations to Syrian protests, fundraisers, and charity work since the revolution began in 2011. Thousands of Muslims care so much about getting rid of Assad that they’ve volunteered as foreign fighters to risk their lives to do it. Goldberg can ignore this, I guess, because he’s the ex-IDF prison guard who is The Expert On Muslims and the media seems fine to keep it that way.

Reader Interactions

167Comments

  1. 1.

    srv

    Well, those are American made bombs falling on Gaza. Thought he’d left the Atlantic.

    Me, I’m going to tune in Charlie Rose more and listen to a bunch of white guys and Israelis emote about the problems with those brown people.

  2. 2.

    Schlemizel

    Goldberg is shit & I have learned to not read anything he writes about the Middle East. I mostly skip him when I stop by there.

  3. 3.

    some guy

    Zionist are always so very helpful when letting us know which Muslims we should cherish and which ones we should terrorize.

  4. 4.

    beltane

    Shorter Goldberg: “Look, a squirrel!”

    This is one of the oldest tactics employed by propagandists for Israel. If you talk about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians without mentioning every single other thing that is wrong in the world, they label you a hypocrite. Classic right-wing tactic designed to shut down discussion. The wingnuts do it here to women all the time, e.g. “How dare you complain about unequal pay when 12 year old girls are sold into marriage in Yemen.”

    Whenever I hear someone do this, I know right away that they are not arguing in good faith.

  5. 5.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    OT but my husband was out in the front yard trimming back various trees today. I made him go through a very thorough tutorial on the shapes of leaves of trees he should be trimming i.e. “this is a junk tree, trim it all you want” (Japanese Privets for instance). I pointed out trees I wanted to keep and not trimmed, because I knew how to trim them and to leave them alone. He called me at the office in the middle of a meeting with a client and asked me if he should cut down any of the trees. I told him no under no circumstances cut down any of the trees. I drove into the driveway this evening and discovered that he had cut down to the ground my 20 year old Japanese Maple. There is perhaps a 6 inch stump sticking out of the ground. I have e-mailed my local extension agent and asked him if there is any hope that the Japanese Maple will recover from the roots, because if there is no hope I just might have to beat my husband to death with the murdered branches of my Maple. He said “I will buy you another one”, I laughed and said “do you have any idea how much a 20 year old Japanese Maple costs?” he said no and I told him that we would have to basically take out a second mortgage to replace it. Here’s hoping that the Extension Agent tells me it is going to recover otherwise I am going to be trolling you guys to lend me a backhoe to bury him in the back yard.

  6. 6.

    Karen in GA

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Oh, no. We had a Japanese maple for a couple of years; couldn’t keep it alive. I was looking forward to having it for a long time, and I was very sad to see it go.

    If I were on the jury, I sure as hell wouldn’t vote to convict you.

  8. 8.

    BBA

    Psst, Jeff. You’re supposed to be a liberal, you know, against Likud-Beitenu and for Labor or whatever Kadima spinoff is in vogue this week. It would help if you wouldn’t regurgitate Netanyahu’s talking points and actually criticize him for once.

    …oh right you’re a Village centrist too. Never mind.

  9. 9.

    geg6

    @beltane:

    Israel actually had some sort of PR training for their mouthpieces on how to do this very thing a few years ago, I believe. Because of the bad press they got the last time they did this shit. An anti-Zionist Jewish friend told me this. I think that friend has more disdain for Israel than I do and I didn’t think that was possible.

  10. 10.

    raven

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Our drunken idiot neighbor has one that he says he planted for a friend that died 10 years ago. The sewer project calls for his waste line to go about 4 feet from it and we’re not sure if it will survive. He was pretty reasonable with us but, when the city guy came over, he was drunk and told him he wanted $4k if it died. Ive asked the city to move the line further away from his tree and onto our property but I’m not sure what they are going to do.

  11. 11.

    mdblanche

    So um, does anyone know just what’s happening in East Jerusalem and the West Bank right now? Also too, who put Israel/Palestine in a hand-basket and where are they taking it?

  12. 12.

    big ole hound

    @Litlebritdifrnt:C’mon now, IMHO you should have done the trimming yourself or marked the stuff to leave alone. You are at least due half the blame for not hanging a ribbon on the trees to leave alone. Sorry about your Japanese maple though.

  14. 14.

    Shikoku88

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Take away the chain saw NOW. What the hell’s the matter with him? Does he disrespect you that much? If so, unload his sorry ass. Yesterday.

  16. 16.

    JPL

    Richard Engel has this tweet IDF suggests Hamas rocket/rockets hit school. it would mean five inaccurate rockets all hit a small location in rapid succession. likely?
     Will NBC news be calling Richard Engel home soon?

  17. 17.

    Violet

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I’m so sorry. That kind of thing is physically painful. I hired a garden company to remove some young trees. They were going to save them to donate to a school. It was winter–one was dormant and one was evergreen. They dug out the evergreen one and chopped down the dormant one. I was aghast. They looked at me and said, “We thought it was dead!” It was fucking January. They’re a gardening company. Do they not know that some trees lose their leaves in winter? WTF?

    As for your husband–what part of “DO NOT CUT DOWN ANY TREES!” did he not understand? I mean, how hard is that to follow? Ugh. I’m sorry. I hope it recovers.

  18. 18.

    beltane

    If all you people going on about Japanese Maples really cared about trees you would be talking about Dutch Elm disease, the Chestnut blight, and the Emerald Ash Borer.

  21. 21.

    WaterGirl

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Oh my god. I would have tears running down my cheeks and be mute with rage. I love trees; that would be a tough one to get over, especially since you said not to cut anything down.

    What the hell was he thinking?

  23. 23.

    tybee

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    well, maple logs are great for smoking ribs and hams and such.

    when life gives you lemons…citrus logs are good for that sort of thing, too.

  24. 24.

    Morbo

    He wrote a whole article about how Syria is being ignored and people are “obsessed” with Gaza.

    A pretty good example of “you’re not wrong; you’re just an asshole.” I noticed he did the same thing with however many people were murdered in Chicago in a given weekend. Basically any other violence is underreported as long as there is Gaza coverage. Nothing short of a media blackout is probably enough for him.

  25. 25.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: Dubious honor, indeed!

    Cole must be home, hopefully he is arranging something that will pan out. I don’t think Cole gives up easily.

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I had to cut down my 20-year old redbud tree last spring because it appeared to be dying, and after the huge tree fell on my house a month later I never got around to getting the stump ground on my redbud.

    It is working very hard at becoming a tree again, so don’t give up hope!

  27. 27.

    Tommy

    One of the strange things about getting rid of cable TV is my news channel options are limited. I used to have MSNBC on for like 8-10 hours a day. No more. My primary news is now Amy Goodman and Democracy Now. As a liberal I knew who the lady was, but now it is my nightly newscast, well I didn’t realize how much of a rock star she was. The whole thing with Israel, well I might have some ideas that are not shown in the main stream media.

  30. 30.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Karen in GA: @raven: @big ole hound: @Anoniminous: @WaterGirl: @tybee:

    I actually cried when I realized what he had done. I mean that tree had been with us since the day we bought the house and he just took a chain saw to it and sawed it to the ground. He knows how I am about my trees and always calls me before he cuts anything down, but today apparently he called me about cutting things down AFTER he had cut down the Maple. Like last year when he called me about cutting things down AFTER he had cut down my Beauty Berry. I tell you there is nothing more dangerous than a redneck with a fucking chainsaw.

  32. 32.

    Anoniminous

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Earlier today you asked:

    “Oklahoma? Not Wisconsin where the largest city elected a series of Socialist governors?”

    Yes, Oklahoma. The Socialist Party of Oklahoma:

    “As the first decade of the 20th Century drew to a close, the Socialist Party of Oklahoma was one of the most dominant state organizations of the national party, gaining the support of nearly one in five Oklahoma voters and electing candidates to office in various locales around the state.”

    The link is worth a read.

  33. 33.

    Violet

    @Tommy: You can still watch the network nightly news shows online if you want. Not that you’d want to, but you could.

  37. 37.

    Laertes

    Goldberg sez: “It would be good if we Americans would pay as much attention to American-drone-caused deaths in in Pakistan as we do to Gaza.”

    Goldberg means: “It would be good if we Americans would pay as little attention to Gaza as we do to American-drone-caused deaths in Pakistan.”

    On the available evidence, is there any reason to believe that Goldberg is troubled in the slightest by either?

  39. 39.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @WaterGirl: It is 20 years old, and strong, so I am hoping it will send up suckers from the roots. The bright side is that the trimming he did with the Japanese Privets will give it enough light to regrow. If not he is toast. As was said what part of “do not cut anything down” did he not understand? I am beyond pissed off.

  40. 40.

    Tommy

    @Baud: I don’t get that, but could see how you think that. Her coverage of Gaza is mind blowing. I am not normally that emotional of a guy. I realize we live in a fucked up world and shit happens. But I’ve sat in front of my TV with tears running down my face watching some of her reports. Thinking to myself every American needs to see this. This is what is really happening and it is wrong on like 10 different levels.

  41. 41.

    Anoniminous

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    As is this:

    Socialist Party speakers relentlessly attacked tenancy, the crop-lien system, and usury, the principal components of the agricultural crisis for small farmers.

    As they made these arguments, Oklahoma socialists were careful to do so in terms that would make sense to their potential constituents. The party’s goal of moving land from large owners into the hands of working farmers, they argued, was entirely consistent with the republican ideals espoused by the nation’s Founding Fathers. In addition, party members worked hard to present their message in a cultural form that was familiar to most Oklahomans by using the language and imagery of fundamentalist Christianity.

    Socialists in the Sooner State held that their ideals were completely in keeping with the teachings of Jesus Christ, especially as expressed in the Sermon on the Mount. Building on this idea, some Oklahoma socialists argued that capitalism was an inherently unchristian system, while socialism allowed citizens to live according to the Biblical concept of cooperation. To them, socialism was a more moral, Christian alternative than the current economic system. As a result, the message of socialist organizers and candidates was often couched in religious terms. Many party members saw Jesus as the first socialist, and they considered it natural to make their case in fundamentalist, Christian churches. In these ways, the Socialist Party of Oklahoma managed to present the message of socialism, not as an alien doctrine, but as an alternative well within the boundaries of accepted American political discourse. Such a feat was unmatched elsewhere in the United States, and it helps explain the remarkable success of Oklahoma socialism.

  43. 43.

    Violet

    @JPL: I like Brian Williams. Plus they have not been completely pro-Israel. Richard Engel and Ayman Mohyeldin have been showing quite a bit of the grim Gaza stuff.

  46. 46.

    Violet

    @Tommy:
    Also, if you want to see media actually question elected officials, check out the BBC’s Question Time. Link. You’ll need a proxy or Beebify or something if you want to watch it since you’re not in the UK. But it’s kind of eye-opening as to just how poor our press is.

  47. 47.

    Tommy

    @schrodinger’s cat: I just got a HDTV antenna but it doesn’t seem to work that well. Or well the media market I am near doesn’t have stations with much broadcast power.

    @Violet: I can get PBS and even CBS Nightly News on my Roku, but as you noted I choose not to. One of the main reasons I got rid of cable was cost, but also cause it just depressed me. I mean there is this thing called the Internet and I can still figure out what is going on and not have to deal with all the BS.

  49. 49.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    @Anoniminous: Yeah, the Wisconsin version relied heavily on the descendants of German ’48ers – which is kind of cool in its way.

  50. 50.

    Violet

    @schrodinger’s cat: Diane Sawyer always looks like she’s wishing she was Barbara Walters, with the lean-in and the “go on, you can tell me, it’s just between us” tone. There’s a real stench of concern troll about her. Do. Not. Like.

  51. 51.

    Violet

    @Baud: I like him the best of the three networks. At least he’s got a sense of humor and can laugh at himself. I find that a plus.

  52. 52.

    JPL

    @Tommy: Have you tried repositioning your antenna? I actually have two antennas since I wanted to get the PBS station out of Athens.

    I’m north of Atlanta and have my antennas in the attic. I can get fifty or more channels but since most are in Spanish, I choose not to watch.

  54. 54.

    Violet

    @WaterGirl: I remember when Richard Engel was the only reporter still in Iraq after we started bombing. He was unaffiliated and ABC (I think) picked him up on a short term basis. He was great. He knew what was going on and spoke Arabic. Then the next thing I knew NBC had him and they have kept him and promoted him. He’s always been top notch. Best thing about NBC network news.

  55. 55.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    @Violet:

    There’s a real stench of concern troll about her. Do. Not. Like.

    A few years in the Nixon White House can do that.

  56. 56.

    Tommy

    @Violet: I had a British co-worker years ago that turned me onto question time (not sure if that is the correct word/phrase) in the Parliament. CSPAN used to carry it. Seeing them just go at it was amazing. I recall saying to him many times I wish we had that. If you believe what you say you ought to be ready to stand up and defend the position.

  58. 58.

    JPL

    @Violet: omg.. Since she is leaving the nightly news, do you think she’ll be on the view. The new/old Barbara Walters.

  59. 59.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    @Tommy: A lot of Question Time is simply debating society hijinks. The ability to turn cutting phrase is more important that the ability to substantively defend a position. It is entertaining though.

  63. 63.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Tommy: I love watching the British Parliament question time. It really should be implemented over here.

  65. 65.

    Violet

    @JPL: I really don’t care where Diane Sawyer goes. I thought she was a good fit for morning TV with her gossipy tone. If she wants to finish her career on The View, that’s fine with me. I don’t watch the show. I have seen her once or twice on the ABC nightly news and I don’t like her at all.

    I don’t even know who the CBS nightly news person is. Scott Pelley? Is that right? Is he the one who looks perpetually surprised?

  66. 66.

    Anne Laurie

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I pointed out trees I wanted to keep and not trimmed, because I knew how to trim them and to leave them alone. He called me at the office in the middle of a meeting with a client and asked me if he should cut down any of the trees. I told him no under no circumstances cut down any of the trees…

    Oh, dear, did someone get a new power toy?

    And why do men ask ‘Should I [commit prohibited action]?’ when they mean ‘How pissed are you gonna be when you see [the damage I’ve already done]?’

    Only consolation I can offer is that you now have an excuse to shop for another Japanese maple. It will not replace the one you lost, but it’s a great time of year to do some specialty-garden road trips…

  68. 68.

    Corner Stone

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    He called me at the office in the middle of a meeting with a client and asked me if he should cut down any of the trees. I told him no under no circumstances cut down any of the trees. I drove into the driveway this evening and discovered that he had cut down to the ground my 20 year old Japanese Maple.

    He’s either an imbecile of epic proportions, or he hates you.
    There is no passive aggressive middle ground here.
    “Honey, what should I cut?”
    “Sweetums, don’t cut a darn thing. Thanks”
    “Got it.”

    The fact that you’re so upset tells it all. Is there any single action he could have done, short of sticking a chef’s knife into your guts, that would have been more transparent?

  69. 69.

    Tommy

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I am totally with you. When I go to family events I am the only liberal in a room of 15+ adults. I am not that dude that rants about politics. We have other things we could talk about. But they know I am a liberal and often want to pick a fight. Don’t pick a fight with me, cause I will in fact fight back. It at times feels like “Question Time” and I am proud to fight back.

  70. 70.

    JPL

    @Violet: Scott Pelley is better than Diane Sawyer, which says a lot. I watch CBS Morning news and Norah O’Donnell asked follow-up questions for awhile. I think she was reined in by the repubs who control the news.

  71. 71.

    drkrick

    @beltane:

    If all you people going on about Japanese Maples really cared about trees you would be talking about Dutch Elm disease, the Chestnut blight, and the Emerald Ash Borer.

    Oh, well played. Perhaps there’s a spot for you at Bloomberg.

  73. 73.

    Suffern ACE

    Maybe if Israel wouldn’t make such a big deal about how safe everything is under their iron dome, the reporters would leave. Coverage problem solved.

  74. 74.

    Cervantes

    It’s pretty obvious why the U.S. should be focused on Gaza and in particular the American press — because our political system is arming Israel and defending it

    That’s not a reason to ignore what our drones are doing in our own name, though, is it? (You have a tweet from Goldberg up there raising this question.)

  75. 75.

    Roger Moore

    @Morbo:

    Nothing short of a media blackout is probably enough for him.

    A media blackout isn’t what he wants; he wants a stenographer repeating whatever Bibi says about the situation.

  76. 76.

    Tommy

    @schrodinger’s cat: WordPress eat my response to you. Yeah I need to move it. Got it mainly for football. I am stunned by the quality of the stations it picks up, just not NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox that well. They cut in and out. But I get me media from St. Louis and even the NPR station does not always reach me well. Same with the TV stations. So is life!

  78. 78.

    Corner Stone

    @Violet: Heck I just disagree.
    Little story. I have a 9 year old son. Most times he’s a good kid. Just amazing. But sometimes he likes to push things. He’ll take something and push. When he does I’m like hey what’s that about? And the answers he tries to give. I mean they just don’t make any sense. They just don’t.
    That’s when I know he knows. He just knows. He knows and he knows that I know. But it doesn’t stop him. He still knows knowing that I know.
    I get pretty angry about it sometimes but what do I know?

  82. 82.

    Anoniminous

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Yes it is.

    But you forgot the Swedes! (By yumin’ yimminee) A lot of them moved into the upper Midwest during the time to join up with the 48’ers. At the height of immigrant 20% of Swedes had moved to the US. The Rikdag freaked, convened a special committee, and decided to dump the still-on-the-books Medieval discrimination laws. Those against (and I use the word “against” advisedly) women were particularly obnoxious. So many young women were leaving the birthrate plunged into negative numbers. The early social legislation passed around the same time are the foundation of what we know as “The Nordic Way.”

    So: the Lysistrata Maneuver can actually work.

  83. 83.

    Randy

    Ironically, we in the USA are not just bankrolling Israel, we are also funding Hamas. Much of the millions and millions in aid that we (the USA and Western Europe) give to the Palestinians directly and through the UN ends up subsidizing Hamas’ military payrolls and Hamas’ military construction projects. Looking at the scope and sophistication of the Hamas tunnel complexes in Gaza and under Israel, it is clear that Hamas is diverting concrete, steel, electricity and labor from public works to improve the lives of Gazans to military facilities designed to increase the deaths of Israelis. Just as writers here complain that every artillery shell fired by the IDF should be labeled, “sponsored by the USA,” perhaps every rocket fired by Hamas should be labeled, “fmade possible by Western charity”.

  85. 85.

    Tommy

    @Corner Stone: It is hard. My father was over the other day. We went to Target and I got me a Jawbone wrist band. He didn’t understand my thinking. As we left we walked down this isle that had all these video cams for infants. I stopped to look at a few of them. I openly asked him how in the 70s without all of this stuff he was able to keep me alive? He joked, cause my father has a sense of humor, that how they raise me would be a crime today.

  88. 88.

    Tommy

    @Anoniminous: My last name is Young. My little rural town is 200+ years old. Founded by Germans. To this very day when I am asked my name I have to say Young with a “Y” and not Jung with a “J.” I always thought that was kind of cool. You know immigrants and all ……

  89. 89.

    Corner Stone

    @Michael G: Haha. Bullshit.
    Read this again:

    I made him go through a very thorough tutorial on the shapes of leaves of trees he should be trimming i.e. “this is a junk tree, trim it all you want” (Japanese Privets for instance). I pointed out trees I wanted to keep and not trimmed, because I knew how to trim them and to leave them alone.

    He did this on purpose.

  90. 90.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Litlebritdifrnt: He’d be in ICU if he’d done that at my house. Or in that department downstairs from ICU. I hope the additional sun will add to its strength.

    @Corner Stone: No, I believe he forgot his tutorial and got carried away. He called to ask if he “should” do what he’s already done. A 20 year old Japanese maple is not like cutting down a 20 year old sugar maple.

  95. 95.

    Corner Stone

    @Tommy: Oh man. I grew up in a small town. One of those towns that are small. But kids everywhere. And I mean everywhere! We went to parks. We went to friend’s houses. We went to places that would put parents in jail now if kids went there. Sometimes I think how did we make it. I’d ask my dad how we made it but he was always working double shifts so he wouldn’t know. And my mom never knew either. So it’s not like asking her is going to tell me.
    Maybe I should get a Jawbone to wear. It might be able to tell me.

  97. 97.

    trollhattan

    @Tommy:
    Anyone who knows more feel free to correct me, but I think when we went from analogue to digital broadcast a few years back, the signal became more line-of-sight dependent and antennas often need to be elevated to snag the signal.

    That happened at my place and I didn’t feel like putting in a taller mast, so get no over-the-air teevee at all, where I once got quite a few.

    Another thing is they seem to invest about seventeen-cents into modern teevee tuners, while the tuner was once hugely important. They’re just “monitors” now, for the most part..

  100. 100.

    Cervantes

    @BBA:

    Psst, Jeff. You’re supposed to be a liberal, you know, against Likud-Beitenu and for Labor or whatever Kadima spinoff is in vogue this week. It would help if you wouldn’t regurgitate Netanyahu’s talking points and actually criticize him for once.

    Upon close examination of actions taken by Labor and Likud governments re the Palestinians, what salient differences should we expect to find?

  101. 101.

    Corner Stone

    @JPL: I did. Thanks. Hadn’t been aware he said anything like that but not surprising, if accurate.
    I just didn’t put it together with anything RM had said.

  105. 105.

    bago

    These are an incorrect set of assumptions sir or madam, or particular gender identity (Why do we do penis counts on humans hosts anyways?)

    WE HAVE TOOLS TO RESOLVE CONFLICTS,
    Like this amazing tool here: http://www.devart.com/codecompare/
    WHY IN THE SHIT ARE WE TRYING TO RESOLVE TEXTUAL DIFFERENCES OVER TIME WITH LEAD!
    Seriously, using lead wil make you stupid.l

  106. 106.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Corner Stone: I still disagree with you about the attempted arboricide, but this comment cracked me the fuck up. Thank you.

  107. 107.

    WaterGirl

    @Cervantes: So you agree with Corner Stone that her husband did this deliberately and with malice?

    I see merit to most of the various takes on this. I can completely believe that the tree instructions went in one ear and out the other. I can completely agree that he may have already cut down the tree, getting caught up in the moment and going too far with his trimming… realizing his mistake and then called to scope out just how much trouble he was in. I can completely believe the “classic not hearing, or hearing what he wants to hear” take on this. I can completely believe the “a therapist would be asking just what else is going on?” take on this, too. And I can completely believe that it was deliberate and malicious.

    I think all are possible, though we surely have to give Litlebritdifrnt credit for knowing whether her marriage is in trouble or not. She is the one who’s there, after all.

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    May I just add that it just struck me that (I think) all the women seem to take the non-malicious side and the men seem to see this as malicious and deliberate hostile action.

    I think there might be a lesson in there somewhere.

  110. 110.

    Corner Stone

    @WaterGirl: This wasn’t an accident. He didn’t somehow feel his oats and fuck up, then ask for forgiveness.
    There simply isn’t a middle ground. Anyone who thinks he wasn’t listening or didn’t know what he was doing. Well, get ready for the next round.

  111. 111.

    WaterGirl

    @Corner Stone: Is that something you would do to a spouse you were angry with or wanted to end things with?

    “Cause never in a million years would I think to cut down a beautiful & irreplaceable tree to spite someone.

    edited to add irreplaceable

  112. 112.

    Steeplejack

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I don’t know how to put this politely, but, based solely on the information presented here, your husband is either too stupid to be walking around unattended or he is discharging a Chernobyl-level blast of passive-aggressiveness.

  113. 113.

    Suffern ACE

    @Cacti: I saw the map of the 3km perimeter where gazans have been ordered to flee. I don’t see why they should. It’s not like they’ll get anything back if they do.

  114. 114.

    Violet

    @WaterGirl: Yeah, exactly. If he’s mad at his spouse, why would he take it out on a poor tree? That seems pretty mean to the tree. There are other ways to hurt your spouse.

    Maybe he secretly didn’t like the tree.

  116. 116.

    Corner Stone

    @WaterGirl: No. I’m not passive aggressive. I spent 8 months negotiating/discussing my divorce with my ex because I wanted to get it right for the most important person in both of our lives.
    Or maybe I should say we spent that time together, getting it right.
    But, after 20+ years in a number of working environments, I have seen every flavor of personal and professional envy, hatred, passion and refusal to deal with conflict anyone could ever see.
    The level of petty spite is unimaginable. I could write a book on the stuff I’ve seen.
    In any event, I’ve known many men in my life who were unable to deal with their situations in a straight forward manner. I can say, with no compunction otherwise, he did not make a mistake here. That’s my firm IMO.

  117. 117.

    robert

    Why in god’s name would you go out of your way to tell someone you don’t know that her marriage is in trouble? Are you that desperate for attention?

  119. 119.

    Suffern ACE

    @Cacti: I like point 7, where all the gazans get a generous immigration package, and the assumption that Egypt wouldn’t mind if they were all shipped to Sianai.

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    @Corner Stone:

    I see merit to most of the various takes on this. I can completely believe that the tree instructions went in one ear and out the other. I can completely agree that he may have already cut down the tree, getting caught up in the moment and going too far with his trimming… realizing his mistake and then called to scope out just how much trouble he was in. I can completely believe the “classic not hearing, or hearing what he wants to hear” take on this. I can completely believe the “a therapist would be asking just what else is going on?” take on this, too. And I can completely believe that it was deliberate and malicious.

    For whatever reason, your comment made me think back to all the alternate theories of the crime, so to speak, and it suddenly struck me that many of the “not deliberate” comments are fairly insulting to men, though I know they weren’t intended to be.

    I think we women get away with thinking/saying things about men that almost make it seem that we think of men like children in some ways, and at the moment it’s striking me that all those explanations are kind of insulting.

    I’m curious to know whether anyone agrees with me on this.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    One last comment before I go off to watch TV for awhile…

    This discussion about cutting down the tree is reminding me of a train ride I took a couple of years ago. The woman in front of me was having a phone conversation with her boyfriend/lover and it was painful hearing her side of the conversation.

    This guy was being so passive aggressive and hateful that it was clear to me that the relationship was over and she just didn’t know it yet. Sometimes things are so obvious from a distance but you can’t see it if you’re up close. I felt like I should say something to this woman before she got off the train, but what could I do?

    I have no idea what the deal is with L. and her husband and the tree, but it seems to me that several men are seeing this and feeling the same certainty I had on the train. Interesting.

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    @Violet: He has told her everything she needs to know. My advice: do not go swimming anywhere with him that’s not a public pool.

  125. 125.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    That there is more than one Balloon Juicer defending the beyond-awful Brian Williams is probably the most depressing thing I’ve seen this year.

  128. 128.

    Steeplejack

    @Violet:

    If he’s mad at his spouse, why would he take it out on a poor tree? That seems pretty mean to the tree. There are other ways to hurt your spouse.

    Jesus Christ Gosh, don’t you get it? He doesn’t care about the tree one way or the other, so he’s not worrying about “being mean” to it. And, yes, there are other ways to hurt your spouse, but, heck, few ways better than destroying something that she loves—and then playing the idiot to avoid responsibility.

    And for those clinging to the “he’s clueless” defense, LitleBrit added: “Like last year when he called me about cutting things down AFTER he had cut down my Beauty Berry.” Golly, this guy is a serial tree-killer. Trust me, ladies, no man who doesn’t have a metal plate in his head is that clueless. Unless by “clueless” you mean “doesn’t give a fuck what his wife says.”

  129. 129.

    Violet

    @Steeplejack: Okay, but that’s like beating the dog because you’re angry at your spouse or kid. It’s abusive. I didn’t get the impression from other things she’s written about him that he’s like that. But I don’t know either of them irl, so maybe I’m wrong.

  130. 130.

    Steeplejack

    @Violet:

    Yes, it is abusive, but not everything is as simple as “I hate my wife and I want to hurt her.” It’s a fucked-up expression of the power dynamic in the relationship. It could be (for example) that this guy wants an incredibly neat, bland, manicured lawn and he saw the Japanese maple and the beauty berry as blots upon the landscape. They had to go, but, since he couldn’t negotiate with LitleBrit or make his case as an equal partner in the relationship, he decided to drop into “Neanderthal simpleton” mode, do what he wanted to do and then fall back on the “I’m a male, therefore an idiot” defense—which all too many women are willing to accept at face value.

    I’m not saying this is exactly how it went down, but I am saying that nobody is that clueless—twice.

  131. 131.

    WaterGirl

    @Steeplejack:

    I’m not saying this is exactly how it went down, but I am saying that nobody is that clueless—twice.

    This.

    Edit: decades ago I shared a rental house with 3 people. I mowed the lawn one day and one of my roommates was absolutely livid – I had apparently mowed down the asparagus patch without realizing it. I didn’t know we even had an asparagus patch. (That was before my gardening days, obviously.)

    You can be damn sure I never made that mistake again.

  132. 132.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    FWIW, I asked G about this since he is my male-to-female interpreter, and he agrees with the guys here. So, yeah, this may be a bigger problem than it first appears.

  133. 133.

    eemom

    Wow. Seen a lot of weird shit on this blog, but this marriage counseling Q&A takes a few cakes.

  134. 134.

    Steeplejack

    @WaterGirl:

    [. . .] it suddenly struck me that many of the “not deliberate” comments are fairly insulting to men [. . .].

    Bingo. There is a lot of exculpatory womansplaining going on: “Oh, he’s just clueless,” “It wasn’t deliberate,” etc. All of which denies or minimizes the man’s “agency,” to use the current jargon, and also papers over the horrified helplessness that a lot of people (not only women) feel when dealing with this type of (usually male) bullshit.

    Up above you wrote: “[. . .] it just struck me that (I think) all the women seem to take the non-malicious side and the men seem to see this as malicious and deliberate hostile action.”

    Yet your first comment was: “I would have tears running down my cheeks and be mute with rage. [. . .] What the hell was he thinking?”

    And Violet: “As for your husband—what part of ‘DO NOT CUT DOWN ANY TREES!’ did he not understand? I mean, how hard is that to follow? Ugh.”

    That seems to come down squarely on the “malicious and deliberate” side. Only later came the “he’s clueless/it wasn’t deliberate” stuff. And please understand I’m not singling you out. Others were saying it. But it seems like a common coping pattern that I see a lot. I’m reminded of the snippet in one of the recent threads here: “I’m not a racist!” “Who cares? Your policies are!”

  136. 136.

    Violet

    @Steeplejack: I had missed her comment about the Beauty Berry until you pointed it out and then I went back and read it. Yeah, doing the same thing twice is not a good sign. Everyone can fuck up and I was under the impression that he had made a mistake and then done dumb shit to try to cover it up. But doing something like that twice is not a mistake. As you say, it would seem to indicate poor communication and an indication of the power dynamic.

  137. 137.

    CanadaGoose

    @Litlebritdifrnt: No — not clueless. Vicious and passive aggressive, too.

    I’d be gone. No matter what it cost. This is not a man who gives a shit about you or your feelings.

  138. 138.

    GregB

    The tree chopping story reminds me of one of the anecdotes from People of the Lie by Scott Peck. He’s seeing an adolescent in therapy who’s very depressed. His brother had committed suicide with a rifle earlier in the year and he was having a tough time dealing with his post Christmas holiday blues.

    Peck asks the kid what his parents gave him for Christmas and he tells him they gave him a gun. What kind of gun asked Peck..the kid says: a rifle.

    Peck says: Like the one your brother used to kill himself and the kid replies that it was THE gun his brother used to kill himself.

  139. 139.

    eemom

    @Steeplejack:

    I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said about the merits of the issue. And I do think this place is a very nice community of (mostly) very good people.

    I just think a certain level of personal gut-spilling in an anonymous public forum….

    on second thought, maybe I’ll just STFU.

  140. 140.

    WaterGirl

    @Steeplejack: Thoughtful comment.

    My sentence would have said “mute with impotent rage”, but somehow the word impotent didn’t make it into the sentence as I typed it. Impotent isn’t too far from helpless, so you are on to something there. But I was thinking that the unbelievable stupidity of cutting the tree down is what would fuel my rage, not a deliberate action. But then again, there’s that word “unbelievable”.

    Food for thought.

    I will console myself with the thought that at least I noticed the male-female pattern in how we were viewing the situation and also caught the underlying “men are helpless idiots” theme, so maybe I’m slightly less clueless than I was when the thread began.

  142. 142.

    Steeplejack

    @eemom:

    I just think a certain level of personal gut-spilling in an anonymous public forum . . .

    Hey, in a certain sense, what better place to spill your guts than in a completely anonymous but “very nice community of (mostly) very good people”? If I was in extremis or facing a very gnarly problem, I can think of few places that I would turn to for advice before Balloon Juice.

  143. 143.

    Violet

    @WaterGirl: The ‘men are helpless idiots’ concept is perpetuated in our popular culture. A lot of sitcoms are set up that way. TV commercials. The wife is exasperated by how dumb the man is.

  145. 145.

    Steeplejack

    @Violet:

    This is where I almost become a flaming “men’s rights” activist or something. Sitcoms and especially commercials are riddled with incompetent boob husbands, fathers or just men in general who have to be manipulated, derailed or navigated around to get anything done. It’s at a level where if it were “dumb blondes” there would be rioting in the streets. And the dark side is that it gives (some) men a pass to get away with a lot of crap because they’re allegedly too dumb or unsocialized to be held to any reasonable standard of conduct.

  146. 146.

    Chris

    @beltane:

    This is one of the oldest tactics employed by propagandists for Israel.

    It’s pretty much the default right wing tactic on everything. My personal favorite being assistance to the poor, where if you try to raise money to help people in American inner cities, they’ll tell you “don’t you know our poor people are better off than most of the rest of the world? You should be raising money for starving kids in Africa” and if you try to raise money to help starving kids in Africa, they’ll tell you “why are you sending money halfway around the world when we have problems right here?”

  147. 147.

    Chris

    @Tommy:

    Thinking to myself every American needs to see this.

    That’s the thing, it wouldn’t matter if they did. The standard response is “all this suffering is horrible, but it’s all Hamas’ fault for bringing it on themselves, and if we really cared about their suffering, we’d do something about Hamas or let Israel do it.” And bitching about the liberal media daring to cover it at all.

    Israel can do no wrong. Nothing is Israel’s fault. Anything bad Israel did must have been forced on them, to their great regret and with a heavy heart, by these irrational savage Others.

  148. 148.

    Chris

    @WaterGirl:

    For whatever reason, your comment made me think back to all the alternate theories of the crime, so to speak, and it suddenly struck me that many of the “not deliberate” comments are fairly insulting to men, though I know they weren’t intended to be.
    …
    I think we women get away with thinking/saying things about men that almost make it seem that we think of men like children in some ways, and at the moment it’s striking me that all those explanations are kind of insulting.
    …
    I’m curious to know whether anyone agrees with me on this.

    Speaking as a guy, I’d say yes, it is demeaning to men to think that we’re all just that stupid and immature. But I don’t see what that has to do with women; seems to me that it’s not women who perpetuate this meme, so much as a certain category of men trying to set the bar as low as possible for themselves.

    Kind of like how racial bigotry coming from any white guy over 50 years old is dismissed as “oh, but that’s just how everyone was in their day.” No, not everyone was like that even in their day, and others have gotten better since then. People who say this are just trying to excuse something that has no right to be.

    Obviously, only Litlebrit can say what applies here. After all, some people genuinely ARE that clueless. I can only say I’d be INCREDIBLY pissed in her place and that he really, REALLY needs to get a clue or stop being a shit.

  150. 150.

    Gretchen

    @Litlebritdifrnt: [email protected]Litlebritdifrnt: I hired some guys to trim some bushes. I was 5 minutes late, but figured what’s the harm, my husband was there? He told them to raze the yew bushes to the ground – he hated them. They protested that that might kill them. Cutting them to 2 feet would be better. No, right to the ground. I got home too late to find our front yard decorated by yew stumps. I think he sees everything that isn’t fence-to-fence grass as a green blur of weeds. I learned my lesson. Even 5 minutes in charge of the the yard is too much for him. My deepest sympathies to you. I hope it grows back. My yews are trying.

  153. 153.

    Sherparick

    @Randy: Hamas gets great deal of funding from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arab States, either through intelligence agencies, or through militant Wahabi oil millionaires. Of course, you could argue that to the extent we support the world market price for oil by our demand for it in this country, one could say we are funding Hamas, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the like groups indirectly and have been for the last 30 years. Also, most of the U.N. money going to Gaza probably comes from Western Europe, OPEC, and Japan as they contribute far more per capita to U.N. and UNRA expenditures then we do.

    I don’t quite go for the complete Israel bashing that sometimes goes on in these columns, as I appreciate the immediate political and security dilemma that Israelis currently face, since they are being bombarded, if not effectively bombarded, at the moment. Further, Hamas and Fatah, despite their different tactics, both have the same eliminationist strategic goals regarding the Jews of Palestine. And it is unfortunately true that Oldest Prejudice does indeed infect many who join in the Anti-Zionist and BDS movements (because now their hatred can be joined with moral vindication to prove the logical pseudo-syllogism that since the Netanyahu – Likud Government is brutal, greedy, racist, and corrupt, all Jews are brutal, greedy, racist, and corrupt). But Israel, particularly its right-wing, has the last 40 years has basically created this dilemma with its policies, particularly the settlement policies, which has made the original 2-State solution of 1948 impossible and is turning Israel into a pariah state. Israel long-term prospects are grim, since its legitimacy of its existence only remains recognized in the U.S. As Daniel Larison points out, as boomers who grew up in the shadow of WWII and Holaucaust stories age out, U.S. support for Israel is dropping. Dropping artillery shells on little kids with TV cameras about tends to have that effect. (One advantage of the drone war is that except for the occasional documentary on PBS, no one sees bodies blown to bits or incinerated.) http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/

  154. 154.

    Bill Arnold

    @Cervantes:

    Upon close examination of actions taken by Labor and Likud governments re the Palestinians, what salient differences should we expect to find?

    Rabin was assassinated for pushing through the Oslo Accords (capsule summary). Also, settlements and expansions of settlements are mostly a project of the Israeli right. (This is just from the press over the last 30 years, not deep study.)
    Also, the Israeli right is aligned with the American right (goes both directions).
    So I’m interested in your perspective on these (shallow) observations, or pointers to deeper reading.

  155. 155.

    Cervantes

    @Sherparick: Re your first paragraph: Hamas does get money from Iran as well, but from what I can tell none of it goes to Gaza.

    Re your second paragraph: The first part of it reads like insinuation and innuendo, and I see no real need to respond; whereas the second part is only too accurate.

  156. 156.

    Someguy

    Hey, could you people who have never met me or my spouse come over later to tell me how to run my marriage and what’s wrong with her, and whether I ought to think about kicking her to the curb? I’d appreciate that. It’d be very helpful.

  158. 158.

    mk

    And it is unfortunately true that Oldest Prejudice does indeed infect many who join in the Anti-Zionist and BDS movements (because now their hatred can be joined with moral vindication to prove the logical pseudo-syllogism that since the Netanyahu – Likud Government is brutal, greedy, racist, and corrupt, all Jews are brutal, greedy, racist, and corrupt).

    That’s a bunch of utterly dishonest BS.

  159. 159.

    BobS

    @Sherparick That “eliminationist” template was established in 1948 when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forcibly expelled or left ‘voluntarily’ for fear of another massacre like Deir Yassin. Sometimes I wonder if the cruelest thing the Nazis did to Jews was to infect their souls with the same evil that drove the Holocaust.

  161. 161.

    akaka

    @Litlebritdifrnt: should have put post-its on the trees! I have a lovely Japanese maple in my backyard, only 6 years old, and I’d kill before letting someone cut it!

  162. 162.

    Original Lee

    @WaterGirl: I’ll have to say that my brother-in-law did something similar. But his passive-aggressive action against the tree had more than one source, which he and my sister finally boiled down to:
    1) It’s his landscaping, too, and he is capable of figuring out what needs to be done, and he hates being told what to do like he’s the hired help and not having any input on the outcome; and
    2) He was kind of in the zone and paying more attention to what was going on inside his head and everything was kind of close together so he was halfway through the trunk before he realized he had screwed the pooch.

    The dynamic in the comments is interesting in a sad way.

  164. 164.

    Original Lee

    @Corner Stone: It’s sad that on a liberal blog we have womansplaining going on, but it’s interesting because it got noticed and discussed.

  165. 165.

    MackK

    @geg6: They did indeed, in 2009, and in fact produced an entire official manual on the language to be used in PR to shape public opinion.

  166. 166.

    Corner Stone

    @Original Lee: Thanks. I’m not sure I ever took it as “womensplaining”, if that’s what WaterGirl’s thoughtful comments were referring to. And I see some back and forth from Steep on this as well.
    I just think, IMO, that the dynamic is pretty clear. It’s just my opinion, and apparently some people don’t want to hear random people commenting on random posts on a random blog, made by other random commenters.

  167. 167.

    Pococurante

    “Jeffrey Goldberg Concern Trolls About Dead Muslims In Not-Gaza”

    Self-awareness Deficit Warning.

    “(he’s a former Israeli prison guard who admitted to beating prisoners, FYI).”

    And he’s written very harshly against the IDF, on reversing settlement building, supports a two-state solution, clearly hates Netanyahu at a visceral level… etc and ad nauseum. He admitted the practice because of shame and because he is older and more experienced. This blog evolved through a similar sentiment to make things better.

    I’ll listen to anything you have to say when you can begin criticizing Hamas’ role even to some degree.

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