Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

People are complicated. Love is not.

Second rate reporter says what?

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Donald Jessica Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Days Since JD Vance Insulted Women Across America: Zero

Shut up, hissy kitty!

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. Do not congratulate. This is not business as usual.

Cancel the cowardly WaPo and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

People are weird.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Saturday Morning Open Thread

Saturday Morning Open Thread

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Well, you knew someone would defend those shopppers. The Washington Post found Luke O’Neill:

The biggest movie in the country right now is “The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1,” a film in which the ostentatiously wealthy people of Panem’s capital rule over the poorer districts from which tributes are selected each year to kill each other in a violent media spectacle. It’s a grotesque display in which the lives of the impoverished are offered up as entertainment for the comfortable.

It’s hard to see the film and not think of the way TV news has covered Black Friday. Consider the jocular hosts’ grinning affect as they relate news of brawls throughout the country in this clip from Fox & Friends First today, for example, or how numerous Web sites will round up the best brawl videos…

None of which is to say that resorting to violence over a discounted television or video game console is admirable, but it’s worthwhile to stop and consider just what it is that inspires such desperation in the first place. As in the world of Panem, an artificial scarcity is imposed from the top down — Wal-Mart, Target and so on — in order to whip the public into a frenzy of aspiration. The affluent media corporations are then complicit in the con, gorging themselves on advertising from the very stores raking in the sales revenue. And we, the advantaged, sit at home in front of our computers and tablets and phones, all of which we’ve already purchased at non-bargain prices, and delight in the spectacle.

“For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?”
— Jane Austen

************
Apart from feeling superior (“same as every day, Pinky!”), what’s on the agenda as we start/continue the weekend?

Reader Interactions

108Comments

  1. 1.

    Waldo

    On a somewhat related note, Kirk Cameron wants you to know that if you don’t go see his crappy Christmas movie, the atheists win.

  2. 2.

    ThresherK

    I went to four stores and bought two items each of which was supposed to power my cell phone while away on a trip.

    Neither did. I honed my “PPSS” (Problem Purchase Spidey Sense), that thing which tells me who is going to do something reeeeeeally stupid (like get the one item of a thousand identical ones on a shelf with the bar code damaged) and ended up with one slight Black Friday issue with the two registers in front of me at a store, neither of which moved for five minutes. (One till ran out of money to make change for a customer of less than a dollar.)

    Along with that engineer’s axiom, “Constants aren’t; variables don’t” I’d like one about how universal isn’t universal. But snappier.

    So, I got nothing done–two items bought, one returned, the second returned today for my legally obligated cheerful refund. When I got home this morning I reunited my phone and its charger and are now up to one phone working in the whole house (different story).

    The pissah is, I’ve had much worse experiences shopping after Thanksgiving, when I’ve actually come away with something I wanted and kept it.

  8. 8.

    satby

    Luke O’Neill has a point though, about the artificial scarcity, the attempt to create frenzy, and the obnoxious spectacle being used for entertainment purposes. I left retail 20 years ago, but it was dangerous then and it’s only gotten worse. I think now there’s actually a body count, before it used to be minor injuries and ugly scuffles.

  10. 10.

    CarolDuhart2

    Condolences, Pogonip.

    Also:

    http://www.gofundme.com/healstl

    @AntonioFrench needs donations to replace his HealSTL office which burned Monday night. He’s the Alderman for the District and also works with the local college. His goal is $25,000. Let’s beat and equal this amount for the people of Ferguson!

  21. 21.

    Baud

    I’m not a regular patron of Black Friday, but I’ve gotten some good deals over the years. So suck it, haters.

    @Pogonip:

    Very sorry about your loss.

  23. 23.

    bemused

    I’d like to know how many employees of the local Walmarts in my area (only two Walmarts within a 80+ mile radius) are also depending on food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing, etc after reading Booman’s piece on the real deadbeats, Walton family. Then I wonder if those numbers were known and reported in area newspapers, it would make local Walmart shoppers decide to stop shopping or shop less there along with less bashing of people on food stamps or assistance. Cynical as I am feeling, I doubt it.

  26. 26.

    Violet

    Black Friday was supposedly a bit low key this year. Fewer crowds, less chaos. We have, however, exported Black Friday to the UK where they trampled each other over TV’s.

  27. 27.

    beth

    @bemused: And Walmart has the balls every year to hold a Facebook contest where food banks compete for the most votes and the top five get a donation (which should be much higher since I’ll bet many of the folks using the food bank work for Walmart). The true embodiment of chutzpah.

  29. 29.

    JMG

    Just had the breakfast of champions, black coffee and leftover apple pie. I wouldn’t go shopping this weekend to win a large bet, but I understand some people enjoy it. Others just like to be where lots of other people are. As American rituals go, it’s fairly harmless.

  31. 31.

    Elizabelle

    @JMG: Had my first pumpkin pie — 2 slices for breakfast. It was yum.

    Too full after all the other goodies Thurs and Friday.

  35. 35.

    chopper

    @JMG:

    My wife has argued that pumpkin pie is an excellent breakfast. She says hey, it has pumpkin and eggs in it.

  36. 36.

    PsiFighter37

    My 10-year high school reunion is tonight. I’m not going, mainly because there are very few people who I want to actually meet that I don’t already keep in touch with. It’s also at a dive bar in the hometown, which to me is pretty indicative of the effort that was put into it by the people who bothered to care enough about it. I have better things to do than relive the past.

  37. 37.

    Big ole hound

    The whole Walmart family and all heirs should be castrated/neutered and the company turned over to the employees.

  38. 38.

    Amir Khalid

    @bemused:
    That so many who work for them must depend on charity to eke out inadequate wages would shame the Walton family if they were like normal people. Having collection boxes in Walmart stores is just advertising that shame and humiliating their workers into the bargain.

  39. 39.

    nancydarling

    @bemused: And I would like to know if the city cops who were on duty at my local Walmart Thursday were paid for by the Walton family. Store sales started at 6:00 PM. I was there at 4:00 to pick up a couple of food items I needed. I counted 4, possibly more, policemen. The whole store had been turned into a maze with plastic yellow tape to control the lines.

    The young woman at the checkout said there was ‘almost’ a stabbing last year.

    I live in a small town (less than 5,000) in NW Arkansas.

  41. 41.

    Elizabelle

    @Amir Khalid:

    Were I ever to set foot in a Wal-Mart, I would be so tempted to tape up pictures of Alice Walton’s art collection and various Walton homes on the food boxes for their employees.

  42. 42.

    Violet

    @Amir Khalid:

    That so many who work for them must depend on charity to eke out inadequate wages would shame the Walton family if they were like normal people.

    I wonder how Sam Walton, the Wal-Mart founder, would have felt about it.

  51. 51.

    Elmo

    @ThresherK: @Pogonip:
    Ah damn, Pogonip, I’m very sorry. My mom died almost 25 years ago, and I still sometimes have the dream where she comes back because it was all a mistake. Usually wake up crying.
    Hold onto good memories, and be kind to yourself for a good while. Hugs.

  52. 52.

    J R in WV

    Pogo,

    Sorry for your loss. Glad she had a long and mostly happy life, dies with loving family around her.

    Neighbors and Ms J and I going to have Thanksgiving dinner tonight, I’m doing stuffing casserole and cauliflower. 3 couples from farms here in the hollow, maybe another couple from their farm 15 or 20 miles away. Small group, 6 or 8 of us, but high quality!

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!!

  53. 53.

    JMT

    @CarolDuhart2:

    Good heads-up Carol, thanks! I don’t donate through Gofundme because they don’t allow fundraising for abortions, but I went to the Heal STL website and donated there.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    @nancydarling:

    And I would like to know if the city cops who were on duty at my local Walmart Thursday were paid for by the Walton family.

    My understanding is that, in a lot of places, caps are allowed to moonlight as private security while wearing their uniforms. So they were probably paid by the company to be there.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    Just posted at Booman’s.

    On the night the non-indictment against Darren Wilson was announced there were demonstrations, looting and cars and buildings were set on fire in Ferguson, Missouri. No one disputes this. But except for one building, all of the fires occurred in or near the area of the protests on West Florissant Avenue.

    The one building that burned to the ground far from where the police were firing tear gas into the crowds of protestors, and those taking advantage of the demonstrations to loot and burn, just happened to be the church that Michael Brown’s family were members and attended.

  58. 58.

    Angela

    @Pogonip: I’m sorry for your loss. There’s never a good time of year to have to make arrangements but the timing of your need to strikes me as a bit more unfair than usual.

  60. 60.

    Jane2

    As for Black Friday, I went to Billings a couple of years ago and it was just fine. Crowds and workers were in a good mood, there were no homicides over Walmart TVs, and the border guard didn’t make us pay duty. Win-win-win.

    This year, I shopped online, and in a couple of weeks will pick up my bargains at the US package service in a dry goods store just over the border. We keep them in business, shop locally while we’re down there, and we get our stuff at a good price.

    God bless America.

  66. 66.

    Ruckus

    @Waldo:
    I like how their religion was supposed to be about peace and love but really it’s about winning. But I do have to say that winning over them feels good, if only so that at some point in time maybe they will shut the fuck up. That and that they are losing without anyone having to try or even do anything to beat them.

  67. 67.

    CarolDuhart2

    http://www.gofundme.com/huw1h0

    The Fundraising for Michael Brown’s Church. If his killer can get $1 million, certainly we can raise double for both HealSTL and this church.

    The Waltons are mutli-billionaires. Those who work for them should not need to take Food Stamps or Food Boxes. It used to be a matter of pride for your employees not to need these things at all. So what happened so that you ask your customers to give to your employees? Certainly you don’t need another unlived in mansion or more jewels

  68. 68.

    Ruckus

    @PsiFighter37:
    My ten yr was a hoot. Was supposed to dressy affair so I wore a long sleeve shirt with a collar. And yes pants for those of you with gutter minds. Levis but still pants. Even convinced the other half to not get all done up. Within 5 min of everyone showing up all the men’s jacket and ties? Off. Women’s heels? Same. It turned into a party, not some stuffy look how good we’re doing. The best part was watching a girl I’d known since kindergarten who had polio walk in without braces. People had made fun of her for her entire time in public schools and she walked in looking like she had beaten the world. It was grand.

  70. 70.

    Baud

    @Ruckus:

    Within 5 min of everyone showing up all the men’s jacket and ties? Off. Women’s heels? Same.

    In all honesty, I was disappointed with where the rest of this story went.

  74. 74.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Pogonip: My condolences. It’s never easy, but often harder around family holidays. My mother’s death right after Thanksgiving taught me to be cautious about early holiday shopping. I knew she wouldn’t make it until her birthday in late January, but I thought she’d make it through Christmas. Some awkward gift reassignment (over a couple of seasons) ensued.

  76. 76.

    Ruckus

    @Baud:
    LOL

    Yes I can see that. We did go to HS in the 60s after all. I’d guess you’d have to know the girl and have been there. But it still was grand. And almost 40 yrs later the picture in my mind is still sharp and crisp. I was bullied a lot as a kid so I identified with her, that and she had the best attitude about her crappy situation that I’ve ever seen in anyone. From a young age she was going to beat this. And she did.

  77. 77.

    Ruckus

    @Baud:
    I’d bet it was more than minimum wage. My reasoning is that I’d bet the Waltons would pay extra to protect their property, even though they sure don’t give a shit about their employees. And not a lot more about their customers. Also it’s hard to put money in the cash registers if people are fighting instead of paying.

  78. 78.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Ruckus: Your friend walking in without braces is the coolest reunion story I’ve heard yet.

    @satby: 85 is indeed a good long run. Thanks for your addition to my basket, and the coupon!

    Satby graciously provided a spa basket at cost for the mom of the tot I adopted for Xmas. The agency said they never ask, but will gladly accept a gift for parents also.

  79. 79.

    NotMax

    re: Black Friday

    Don’t always go, but do check the flyers and if there are one or two items which pique my interest, will stop by to purchase only those and nothing else. And not at some ludicrous hour but more like noontime.

    Also to watch the crowds and with any luck encounter someone else in line with whom can trade snide comments. Don’t much mind waiting for the checkout (so long as there is occasionally a rack or shelf can lean on to take weight off the bad leg), the thing that really fries my grits are bozos who hog two parking spaces in the lots and parking structures. Would vote yes to see aggressive ticketing and towing on Black Fridays for them.

    Had to laugh a bit at Macy’s to see a kitchen small appliance which I had bought on sale about 2 weeks ago on special for Black Friday at a whopping one dollar less than I had paid.

    Interesting (to me) happenstance was seeing a gent stroll by who for all intents and purposes was physically a perfect clone of the marvelous actor Alastair Sim.

  80. 80.

    Mike E

    Police here earn $50 an hour for public events…used to be whoever could sign up first would pull the shift, but the new chief divvied out the plums evenly until the assignments are all filled…if any extras come open then it’s 1st come.

  81. 81.

    PsiFighter37

    @Ruckus: Yeah, that’s definitely NOT how this affair would turn out.

    Also, our class was nearly 400 kids (big public school), and frankly I didn’t even personally know many of the kids who were in my class. Given there appeared to me at most 30-40 people who indicated interest in showing up – and most of them people I didn’t recognize / people I know I would have zero interest in knowing now, it’s just a complete lost cause for me.

    Also, scheduling it for Saturday after Thanksgiving, when most people (particularly those who don’t live in the area) have left already, is a poor choice of timing. Wednesday before Thanksgiving, or the Friday right after, makes a lot more sense.

    Not fussed anyways – as I said, most of the people I care to keep in touch with, I already do, and those that I would like to re-engage with aren’t in this part of the country anymore. That’s life.

  82. 82.

    NotMax

    (Probably gonna catch hell for this.)

    A plea to women: could you please, after receiving the receipt at the register, take two steps to the side and then put all the crap back into your handbag in order to to allow the next customer in line access to the checkout counter?

  83. 83.

    Ruckus

    @Mike E:
    A while back I heard the same amount. But it was just something I’d heard 2nd/3rd hand so didn’t want to give it much value. Also it was some yrs ago. But it does make sense, at least for some areas. A private security firm would probably charge the same, while paying employees much less. And the police officer is well, a police officer. On or off duty, can make arrests, shoot unarmed people with impunity, and probably call for back up if necessary.

  84. 84.

    henqiguai

    @NotMax (#82):

    …take two steps to the side and then put all the crap back into your handbag in order to to allow the next customer in line access to the checkout counter?

    That’s funny. Was trying to get out of a Costco recently; glancing nervously over my shoulder to make sure no one was behind me and muttering ‘Don’t want to be blocking anyone while I put away this receipt’ stuffing it into my wallet. The Costco person doing the checking grinned and said, loudly, ‘Thank you for your consideration!’. Walked out laughing; and still trying to keep out of others’ way.

  85. 85.

    beth

    @NotMax: There are behaviors at the checkout counter a lot worse than making you wait 20 seconds for us to put away a wallet or credit card. How about bitching at the people who pay by check but wait until everything’s rung up before even pulling out their checkbook? Or old people who can’t quite get the hang of swiping a credit card? Or people who seem to take joy in paying in coins????

  87. 87.

    Another Holocene Human

    @satby: Same exact thing rushing to apply for jobs, too.

    They’re all bastards.

    You know what’s not a spectacle but just as bad? Jobs that require real technical credentials but the “professional” hiring process hires people who aren’t qualified. And the people with fake schools selling fake credentials. Not the nice little diploma mills, the witting con, but years of classes, thousands of debt, all for a substandard degree.

  88. 88.

    NotMax

    @beth

    Of course there are, so what? One inconsideration does not negate another. If on e were to attempt a comprehensive list of rude checkout behavior, the comment would scroll down several pages worth.

    20 (or 30, or 40) seconds may not seem much, but when there is a long line those increments do add up.

  89. 89.

    Mnemosyne

    @Pogonip:

    So sorry, Pogonip. G and I both lost our fathers within 6 months of each other and it’s never fun. Though my F-I-L did have the presence of mind to write down his preferences ahead of time and picked the funeral home across the street from his favorite bar for his wake so we could do the required stuff and then go across the street for a drink (or two) afterwards for a proper Irish wake.

  92. 92.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    They had a big story about Ferguson on BBC World Service (their radio program) and the #1 thing that the UK campaigner against police brutality said would help was “buttonhole cameras.” IMO, the only way those will work here in the US is if the regulations are written so that if the camera mysteriously doesn’t work at the moment of dispute, the cop is automatically assumed to be at fault (if it can’t be criminally at fault because of constitutional issues, then s/he would be automatically liable in civil court). Otherwise, they will have no incentive to make sure everything is operational all the time.

  93. 93.

    Violet

    @Mnemosyne: I agree with you on this but I can’t see how it would ever work. How can you guarantee that the camera is working at all times? You just can’t. If it’s not something they’re actively using, but instead just sits there and records, it could stop working and they wouldn’t really be aware of it. How’s that the cop’s fault?

    I understand they need to be able to turn it off so they can visit the bathroom or do other things they should have the right not to be recorded, but giving them the ability to turn it off and on makes the whole thing more complicated. I’d prefer it was always on but the right to privacy will trump that.

  94. 94.

    Suzanne

    @Pogonip: Awwww, shit. Hugs to you, Pogonip.

    I heard about the Brown’s church a few days ago. The pastor believes that it was white supremacists who burned it. White people burning black churches: of what does this remind you?

    I will be putting Christmas lights up today.

    On the Waltons: my in-laws live in Fayetteville, AK, and I hate going to visit there because it’s boring. But as a huge art and architecture lover, Mr. Suzanne was thrilled a couple of years ago to find out that the Waltons were building a new American art museum in Bentonville to hold the art collection of Alice Walton. (Building designed by Moshe Safdie, and is really, really wonderful.)

    So the last time we were there, we went to the museum. As we went into the first gallery, an employee pulled us aside and gave us a very stern warning about touching the art, podia, frames, etc. I was like WTF? I have been to museums all over the US and Europe and no one has ever told me not to touch shit. DUH, YOU DON’T TOUCH ART. And then I walked into the galleries, and people were touching the fucking art. WHAT THE HELL?!?!

  96. 96.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:
    Just a thought.
    Maybe because the Waltons have no respect for anyone else, few have respect for them or their possessions? Or possibly, many Americans seem to have little respect for each other?

    And I’ve been to museums of many types in many parts of the world. It’s never touch unless invited. If it’s worthy of being in a museum then it’s worthy of respect.

  99. 99.

    Tyro

    There is a certain strain of liberal that is really ashamed to hold people to the standards of middle class social norms that they themselves were raised with. While I try not to be “judgy” about things that aren’t all that important, there are times to advocate for civilized social norms, regardless of whether some people simply don’t “get it.” Though the stores themselves bear some of the blame for encouraging it.

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne

    @Violet:

    I’ll phrase it a different way — if the camera is off, and the cop’s and the citizen’s stories are different, I want the courts to assume that the cop is lying, or at least misremembering. This is, because, quite frankly, we’re already hearing about abuse cases where the dashcam footage is mysteriously missing.

    Nobody cares if the cop turns the camera off before s/he takes a leak, but if s/he is accused of abusing someone, they shouldn’t be allowed to say, Whoops, my camera just happened to not be working at the exact moment that this person says I kicked them. I guess it’s my word against theirs!

  102. 102.

    Suzanne

    @Ruckus: I don’t know the answer. I don’t know if it’s a F U at the Waltons, or what. But I was kind of aghast. The Waltons certainly deserve our scorn, but not for putting a huge art collection on public display and giving away thousands of free admissions.

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:
    Agreed.
    They deserve our scorn for stealing all that money from the least able to afford it and then putting a pittance of it on display for us to ogle.

    Would one maybe assume that I don’t like them?
    Whatever would make one think that?

  107. 107.

    Mnemosyne

    @Fort Geek:

    One of my co-workers absolutely refuses to let us have a team-building lunch at Dave and Buster’s because he’s still traumatized by his self-pay 10-year reunion. They didn’t even have a room reserved.

  108. 108.

    Ruckus

    @Fort Geek:
    Was even better in a not tux. Almost everyone thought I was the smart one, not renting someone else’s clothes and/or being uncomfortable. My ex was pissed for about 3 min after we walked in when she saw all the over dressed folks. And she didn’t know any of them, we met in college. After that 3 minutes she told me for the only time in 20 yrs that I can remember that I was correct. It was a good night.

    ETA And just so you know, yrs later I owned my own tux as I had to attend banquets for work and hated renting. So I have dressed up when required and paid to do so. But I’ve only owned 2 suits since I was about 12 and still have the second one. And I’m on SS

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