Via Tommy Christopher at the Daily Banter, my senator/human dumpster fire Rand Paul knows why Eric Garner died…
…cigarette taxes.
“I think it is hard not to watch that video of him saying I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe, and not be horrified by it. But I think there’s something bigger than just the individual circumstances. Obviously the individual circumstances are important. I think it is important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes so they’ve driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive. But then some politician had to say we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette. For someone to die over breaking that law, there is really no excuse for it. But I do blame the politician. We put our police in a difficult situation with bad laws.”
I do not have enough heavy objects to throw in complete sun-crushing rage right now. Of all the possible and myriad plethora of reasons to object to the death of Eric Garner and the rampant injustice of the failure of the grand jury system here, the fact that cigarette taxes are high in NYC is such a peripheral piece of cowflop that even I, as much as I despise Rand Paul, am utterly shocked at his near cataclysmic lack of basic human decency.
Eric Garner was murdered on video for the world to see, and this asshole is worried about cig taxes.
And you know that’s the only reason these ghouls care about a dead black guy at all, because it gives them a reason to complain about government and taxes. Because every black person killed by a cop suffered the ultimate sanction over fucking Austrian school macroeconomics.
Nope. Rand Paul can go straight to hell while wearing thermite boxers with solar corona trim, along with all his glibertarian douchebag supporters.
JPL
Michael Brown was originally stopped for jay walking so I call bullshit on his statements. Just saying though..
All lives count.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
As I suspected, libertarianism is a religion and, just as “More Jesus” is always the answer for fundie Christianists, “No Taxes” is always the answer for libertarians, and with the same amount of rational thought behind it.
Baud
You should have highlighted this also.
JPL
Zandar, did you watch the mayor today? He was visibly upset. Anyone hear from Hillary yet?
JPL
@Baud: Is jay walking a bad law?
lamh36
And now Chris Hayes has Jeff Roorda on for an interview.
That’s my que to turn MSNBC off. Chris Hayes doesn’t have the skill needed to “debate” or call out someone like Roorda.
Why the fuq would I want to hear a damn word he has to say.
I’m telling ya, someone said, “Black folk, all we got is us”, and boy is that statement true.
Baud
@JPL:
Big government paternalism at its worst.
Brendan in Charlotte
Zandar – it’s exactly how I’d expect Senator Dumpster Fire to express empathy for the blahs without losing any votes from his base. It allows him to keep using his dog whistle. Not that it means he actually has any empathy for the blahs.
Baud
@Brendan in Charlotte:
Yep. He does this all the time on every issue. But points to Rand for blaming the cigarette tax. That takes some creativity.
JPL
@Baud: Where was Rand Paul then? I guess no taxes were involved.
samiam
Is this another one of those “Rand Paul has some good ideas” things that libertarian curious Cole talks about after reading another one of Griftwalds latest Rand Paul love letter?
beltane
Libertarians are like a horn that plays only one note, and that note happens to be way off key.
beltane
@samiam: No, it’s one of those truthful “Rand Paul doesn’t have any good things” posts.
Baud
@JPL:
Rand is at all times exactly where Rand wants to be.
El Cid
Eric Garner is clearly a heroic martyr for…cigarettes.
Tobacco companies, you know what to do.
Zam
Next time we will be hearing about how this is the fault of seat belt laws or speed limits.
Cacti
@lamh36:
Did Hayes bring up the fact that Roorda is a disgraced, dirty, ex-cop, whose ass was fired from his last cop job for misconduct?
lamh36
A guest on Hayes said that Cuomo had the authority to appoint a Special Prosecutor, but due to politics he didn’t, just as Missouri governor Nixon.
Now answer me this, what do you tell the generation that sees Dems treating minorities as expendable?
We should thank goodness right now that Rand Paul is an idiot dudebro, but guess what let’s hope there is no glib candidate unlike Paul, who is more refined, charismatic or more saavy than Rand Paul before 2016, because if the glibs every figure out that game, the Dems are in trouble.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
@Cacti:
How quickly we forget. I absolutely knew who Roorda was a few days ago, maybe a week and a half or so ago, but when I saw his name here I actually had to google him to remind myself who he was.
Yup, still a scum.
JPL
@lamh36: Prosecutors normally depend on the police to solve cases so they should never be expected to bring charges against the police. There should be a different system. There should always be a special prosecutor. It doesn’t make sense to do it any other way.
lamh36
@JPL: That is exactly what this person on Hayes said.
Oh, and BTW Micheal Steele was on the show and he included the grand jury non-indictment of Darren Wilson when he was discussing the Eric Garner case
Mike E
@efgoldman: Heh, I’d like to hear TribbleHead’s elevator pitch…
Baud
@lamh36:
We’ve been exposed to some pretty awful Democrats lately. But in our modern political culture, I don’t see any Democratic being good enough to enough people to be able to eliminate all risk from a smooth GOP operative who has media backing.
JPL
@lamh36: Thanks for letting me know that Steele wasn’t talking about just this case. It really upsets me that some are trying to separate the different murders. None are justified.
WereBear
I agree. Except… I’m not shocked.
Baud
@JPL:
A lot of people are trying to distinguish between the two. I guess the video evidence in this case is just a bridge too far.
ETA: I guess we should be grateful that we still have a bridge left.
lamh36
@Baud: I agree with that.
As I said in the previous thread, if the 2016 Dems think that they can be coy and too cute by half in an effort to try to appeal to white voters, after this series of incidents, and still expect people of color to be “enthusiatic”, then the Dems maybe in for a rude awakening.
I’m almost 40, I voted every election since I turned 18. I will be voting until they bury me. But I can’t say the same for my younger family.
rikyrah
@lamh36:
I hear ya, lamh.
I hear ya.
PIGL
@Baud: This part could be true, maybe not this time, but some times. The law is responsible for the arrest (let us stipulate). Racism is responsible for enforcing that particular law. Killing the him in the process, that was a choice made by the police involved. Even a libertarian should be able to distinguish these aspects of the problem.
Tommy
@efgoldman: I would say that but you did it for me.
cthulhu
Isn’t the only reason any American ever dies is because we are no longer on the gold standard?
lamh36
Tomorrow’s front page of NY Daily News….BRUTAL
Headline: “I CAN’T BREATHE!”
https://twitter.com/harrysiegel/status/540324866332033024
rikyrah
@lamh36:
keep on telling the truth, lamh.
Trentrunner
FWIW, Ann Coulter is taking the same tack on this as Paul.
Anyone have the hazmat suit to check and see what Fox is saying? All I heard is that an all-white panel was on to discuss this news. Anything else?
lamh36
Can Cuomo still call a special prosecutor? Oh, BTW, NOW Cuomo is calling for a federal investigation.
Muthafudger…would call for a special prosecutor before, but now the sum of a bitch wants an federal investigation.
Fuck you Cuomo…
schrodinger's cat
@Mike E: Please, tribbles are cute, toupee Paul is anything but.
rikyrah
@lamh36:
uh huh
tell it
Baud
@lamh36:
I don’t disagree. The 2016 candidate can’t afford to take any voters for granted. I admit to being concerned, however, about unrealistic expectations and moving goal posts. I feel like that sort of thing hurt Obama’s presidency (although thankfully not his reelection), so now I admit to being a little sensitive on that issue.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@samiam:
Whirrrr…click…bing…boop.
Mike in NC
Everybody knows that taxes are far worse than murder.
/ Glibertarians
beltane
@rikyrah: Should anyone expect better from Governor “Shuck & Jive”?
J
This is what I get when try to contact Michael Bennet in Colorado… Mail service to our Washington office is significantly delayed due to heightened security measures.
Baud
@beltane:
Cuomo apparently exists to make Brian Schweitzer look good.
Drunken hausfrau
Sorry Cole, I have stayed away to be “supportive” in your non drinking success, but I, sadly, drink because ths stupid, awful crap just seems to get worse and worse…. And I need to travel the gin highway to escape.
scav
@PIGL: Libertarians operating in good faith, possibly, but Libertarians with an agenda and variously flexible whistles hanging about their necks at the ready? Because this instance gives them a chance to indulge in their large-city big-govt opposing cards, which they did rather have to shover further up the sleeve when they were in full-on “Automatically support even non-sheriff police and governmental authority in all fashions at all times!” mode earlier. St. Louis “good” “heartland” officials, NYC classically boogymen under the bed officials.
Belafon
SiubhanDuinne
@Trentrunner:
I posted in one of the below-stairs threads that Fox’s immediate reaction was to be all concerned about how protests on the streets of New York might interfere with the schedule Rockefeller Center tree lighting ceremony this evening.
Beyond that, I cannot say.
lamh36
@Trentrunner: Because they have NO FUCKING LEG TO STAND ON with this case.
The video is there. Even a biased case can look at that video and see Eric Garner was not resisting.
He fuckin’ said “I can’t breathe” 11 damn times! I literally had to turn the channel, I began to tear up after 5 of the 11! I couldn’t even hear the rest.
So yeah, all they got to stand on is Garner being fat (though they certainly don’t mind that fat fuck Christie) and taxes on 50 cents a cigarette!
SiubhanDuinne
@J:
To the best of my knowledge, every member of both chambers of Congress has used this excuse for non-responsiveness since approximately 13 years 2 months and 22 days ago. Give or take.
Tommy
@Baud: You got to vote. I recall my mom talking about, voting. Mom runs elections in her district. We talk after most elections and cry that more people do not vote. I mean cry. We cried more didn’t vote, it is a thing, we don’t get it. Mom could care less who you vote for. I have come to agree with her. I could care less. Just vote. There is a unifying thing in my family. You will always vote.
raven
@Drunken hausfrau: So drink. It’s important to you to talk about it too huh?
mai naem
When I heard about the non indictment and they talked about the “loosies” I was wondering who would be the first whack job to bring up the tax issue. I just figured it would be RW talk show host.
mike with a mic
@lamh36:
I don’t know why people think video, or even the victim being white, would have mattered. I’ll link to a case where police beat a homeless white guy to death, they didn’t get convicted for that either. I’m using this case because the brutality of it is far worse than the choke hold.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/us/california-homeless-beating-verdict/
http://www.salon.com/2014/01/14/cops_who_beat_homeless_man_to_death_walk_free/
The cops have had complete immunity from killing people for a while. If you’re rich, the cops can’t and won’t touch you, the law does not apply. If you aren’t, the cops can do whatever the fuck they want and you have no recourse.
skerry
Transcription of Eric Garner’s last words
Every time you see me, you want to mess with me. I’m tired of it. It stops today. […] I’m minding my business, officer. I’m minding my business. Please just leave me alone. I told you the last time, please just leave me alone. Please. Please, don’t touch me. Do not touch me. [garbled] I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe.
lamh36
Hal
I saw some joke recently about a new app on Facebook that let’s you know if your friends/family are racist based on their Ferguson posts, and it’s really been eye opening for me. I defriended a couple of people after seeing posts like how to disperse protesters in Ferguson? Air drop job applications! hahahha. The person who said that then eventually had a post saying she wasn’t racist and her black friends knew it. I guess her black friends missed the comment she liked by another friend of hers who said the protesters were animals who belonged on display at African Lion Safari. But she’s totes not racist!
I’ve seen lots whitesplaining on this issue on facebook. One thing it’s done for me is really drive home what so many women were talking about when using the #notallmen hash tag.
So many people I like being disappointing and down right clueless or purposefully disingenuous like Rand Paul is being. Not that I like him. I’ve banned myself from commenting anymore because fb is just not the right medium to have an intelligent conversation, and as much as people seem to invite debate, what they are really looking for is for people to like to their status, thereby justifying their opinions.
Baud
@Tommy:
Right. I think most folks here are the same way. Not enough people are, especially on the Democratic side.
skerry
Helpful advice: “Editorial: 20 rules for winning gun fights”
Tommy
Fuck. My best friend from Denmark. I read a study the other day, since 1973 they are the most happy people in the world.I just want to say how cool is that?
kc
@skerry:
It’s just awful.
He was upset and arguing with the cop, but he was unarmed and not threatening anyone. There was NO REASON for those cops to gang-tackle him and take him down like that.
I wonder what bullshit lie they would have told about him if it hadn’t been caught on video.
skerry
@kc: Similar to the bullshit lies that the Cleveland police told about Tamir Rice.
ETA: The police did not know about the surveillance video when they first gave their story. They also refused to give the boy any first aid. Can someone tell me why a grand jury is necessary in this case?
fleeting expletive
I am Facebook friends with my nephew’s wife and both he and she are Army folk. So super gung-ho, rah-rah patriots. She posted a story apparently making the rounds about an American flag being trampled in Ferguson. I was curious because I hadn’t heard about that, so I’m checking it out. Snopes had nothing, Google had some right-wing sites like The Blaze, Yahoo news, same thing–I don’t remember right now if Breitbarf and Drudge were also listed. She had about 30 or so replies from her also rah-rah friends. It seemed so weird to me—“I got yer back”–and very much worse. Not one word about an unarmed young man murdered by an overzealous white cop.
Does Rachel Maddow’s site or anywhere else keep up with this stuff? I should check right wing watch and media matters tomorrow, I suppose. I didn’t comment and won’t, but there seems to be an astounding population out there who just listen to and read their own self-reinforcing tribal and authoritarian sources and get themselves worked up.
I’ve never met the girl, and I haven’t seen my nephew since just after my father’s death in 2003. He was a good kid, but my kid brother’s family is a little weird.
Villago Delenda Est
The entire Cult of Paul needs to be erased from the universe.
With a very rough eraser.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
So there was this idiot on that Twitter feed:
I missed the part of Bloomberg’s “stupid nanny laws” that required the police to execute a man on the street for a misdemeanor violation. Ass.
Villago Delenda Est
@skerry:
To “exonerate” the pigs by not bringing charges.
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s very funny, but you can just walk into Peter DeFazio’s office and talk to a staffer about a problem.
I guess he’s not as afraid as all those twits with a R-State Here after their names.
Omnes Omnibus
@skerry:
Because a grand jury indictment is necessary to bring charges in New York, unless the suspect waives the right to have the case presented to a grand jury. Basically, no grand jury, no charges.
Mnemosyne
@mike with a mic:
Kelly Thomas was mentally ill, and therefore equally a nonperson in the eyes of those cops. Though at least Ramos was fired for his actions and the other two “resigned.”
Tommy
@fleeting expletive: People look at things differently. I might be a raging liberal. Not chance that flag will touch the floor in my household.Not a second.
Oh I hope it is clear not the of the confederate.
Villago Delenda Est
@Trentrunner: Ann Coulter’s greatest regret?
Born too late to the the Bitch of Buchenwald.
Linnaeus
@scav:
Assumes facts not in evidence.
skerry
@Omnes Omnibus: What about Ohio? That’s where Tamir Rice was killed.
jefft
This is pretty dumb too:
“But then some politician had to say we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette”
Yeah Right, no cop would harass anyone without a direct order from a City Councilman
This is why most Libertarians are teen agers, they have no life experience
Just like Matt Yglesias positing an all powerful “Barber and Nail Lady Cartel” to explain why you need a license to open a business where you apply caustic chemicals to peoples heads, Ron Paul posits that the only reason half a dozen cops would pile on and choke to death a guy accused of selling lucies is that “some politician” just HAD to tell them to
NotMax
@Tommy
Of course that’s your prerogative, but why not? It’s the floor, not the ground (presuming the domicile doesn’t have dirt floors). Also, the floor could quite conceivably be cleaner than the walls.
beltane
@Mnemosyne: The police can’t even go with the tried and true “I was just following orders” defense since it’s not like Nanny Bloomberg was ordering them to do this. It’s almost as though the wingnuts, experiencing a normal human reaction to witnessing a murder, are reaching for any explanation that comforts them. Instead of confronting the scary truth that the police would have used whatever pretext they wanted to attack Eric Garner, they go with the lie that this type of thing would never happen if we didn’t have a cigarette tax.
Villago Delenda Est
@beltane: With the wingnuts, it’s always, always projection.
Every single time.
Steve from Antioch
@fleeting expletive: There was a video floating around – I think I saw it on reddit.
Some Ferguson protestors burned a flag, which mostly consisted of one person setting it on fire and then three or four people jockeying around to get video of it burning on the ground.
After it was out, some national guard guys came over and picked up the remnants. Some protestor dude was repeating “it’s just a piece of cloth, man” and one of the national guard guys replied that it “means something to me” and then something about a buddy losing his shins on the war or something.
Villago Delenda Est
@Steve from Antioch: It’s just a piece of cloth.
Actually, most of the time, it’s some nylon weaved something or other, which makes it difficult to properly dispose of one by burning, which is what you’re supposed to do with a worn, soiled, frayed flag.
Which I have done in an official capacity while in uniform.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Actually, it was Rudy’s laws that made things like squeegee men the new thugs.He’s the real model: I bully because I can.
Omnes Omnibus
@skerry: Ohio requires a grand jury indictment for major felonies. For minor felonies and and misdemeanors, cases can be initiated by filing an information and then establishing probable cause at a preliminary hearing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Yep.
beltane
@Tommy: During the heyday of the teabagger protest, I recall quite a few liberties being taken with the flag, but that was OK because anything an Aryan teatrash does automatically counts as patriotic. Sorry, but these people defile their country every time they open their dirty, lying mouths.
balconesfault
He won’t, because he’s full of the normal glibertarian hubris … but if Rand Paul had any sense he’d pay someone who completely doesn’t believe his BS a good 6 figures to listen to his pitch before any public speaking appearance, and inform him when someone is so completely inappropriate that all it will do is alienate anyone who’s not a true believer.
I’d assume his staff is simply manned by true believers who don’t get how tone deaf such statements can be.
fleeting expletive
@Tommy: Thank you. I’d never have put that flag on you. I’ve gotten familiar with you on here. You’re a good dude, all in all.
Villago Delenda Est
@debbie: “A small man in search of a balcony” – Jimmy Breslin, commenting on Rudy Giuilliani.
Suzanne
@lamh36: Maybe this is sad, maybe this makes me sound like I have really low expectations for life, but I honestly think that it’s unrealistic to the point of fantasy to expect to be enthusiastic every time you vote. I really don’t like that we’re talking about it being reasonable to expect to feel all personally affected and turned on and engaged. Because it creates unrealistic expectations. The thing is, to get the kind of long-term, lasting results we want, we have to vote every dang time. That means that nine times out of ten, we’re going to vote for people who range from unexciting at best to at-least-not-a-Rethuglican at worst.
Voting is work and an obligation to civil society, and if we act like a politician has to be really dang exciting and engaging and historic in order to be worth voting for, we’re going to shoot ourselves in the foot here.
NotMax
@Steve from Antioch
Leave us remember that the Supreme Court decision that burning the American flag as a form of political protest was a protected act of free speech under the U.S. Constitution had its quarter century anniversary this year.
Frankensteinbeck
I’m impressed. Paul pulls the conservative triple! He validates racism by excusing a black man’s murder. He sucks up to his tobacco growing constituency. But what’s really impressive is, he hits one to Cleek’s Law, making the death the fault of those fucking hippies and their liberal regulations that try to improve people’s health.
EDIT – @balconesfault:
No, I think he said exactly what his audience wants to hear, the things I listed above.
Omnes Omnibus
@balconesfault: I’d take that job, and then, no matter what RP said, I’d tell him to amp it up because he was being too subtle. And then I would laugh all the way to the bank.
ETA: I could do this with a clear conscience because I would be both removing money from the griftosphere and helping to torpedo the Paultard movement. Win/win.
debbie
@Villago Delenda Est:
Brilliant! NYC needs more Breslins!
This, also:
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/new-proposal-provide-grand-juries-eyes
Villago Delenda Est
@NotMax: The Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China both got really steamed when domestic protesters burned their flags.
Are those two regimes the ones we should emulate? George H.W. Bush seemed to think so.
scav
@Linnaeus: Was aiming for highlights evidence of same utterly lacking. Drat. Must get new glasses. . . . .
skerry
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks.
I wonder how long it will take to let those officers walk.
theturtlemoves
@Villago Delenda Est: Hell, I’ve been on flights with DeFazio himself a few times and he’s always friendly to everyone around him, even the redneck he was talking to about cars who didn’t know him from a hole in the ground. “So, you work in Washington, huh? You work for the gubmint or sumpin?”
Emma
@skerry: Because a grand jury is more likely to give prosecutors political cover.
NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Can recall a huge bonfire made up of 48 star flags when we grew to 50 states. Whole shebang was done by Cub and Boy Scouts; took place in the schoolyard.
Omnes Omnibus
@Emma: No, see my comments to skerry above.
ETA: Aside from grand juries, how do you think prosecutors initiate criminal charges? Does it vary by state? I don’t mean to pick on you, but some knowledge of the process does matter.
fleeting expletive
I hope they find out who trampled a flag there in Ferguson. And find some authentic video of it. Verify that shit and find out who. Let’s here who it is that does that. What if it turns out to be O’Keefe?
Would that surprise anyone? Please somebody follow that up? Was a flag burned or trampled (not sure) and who did it and who are they and is there video and who paid them, or where did they come from and who are they? If they are trying to subvert the genuine protests by making them look bad, we need to look into who they are. This could be a bigger story than our usual sources are making of it.
With that, thank you, all. I so appreciate that y’all are here. Te amo, queridas.
Omnes Omnibus
@skerry: Sadly, my faith in the willingness of prosecutors to do their job when cops are potential defendants has taken a beating recently. It pisses me off as a person and offends my sense of professionalism as a lawyer, but the facts are the facts.
fleeting expletive
I cannot believe I wrote “here” for “hear” and I guess I am mortified because I am my own grammar nazi.
Mike E
After running away from the president, now Kay Hagan says he didn’t do enough to help her campaign.
beltane
And Rick Santorum chimes in:
This was the funniest thing I read all day.
Omnes Omnibus
@fleeting expletive: I would have no problem with protesters in Ferguson using a US flag as a part of their protest. Didn’t the powers that be in that town just tell a number of citizens that their lives don’t matter?
Mike in dc
@Omnes Omnibus:
Often by taking the case to a judge for a preliminary hearing. The judge listens to the prosecutor and rules whether probable cause exists to charge.
lamh36
@Suzanne: as I said, I”m almost 40 years old, I will vote did I’m dead and buried, have been since I was 18.
But there can’t be enough said about motivation. You are more likely to get out and do something if you are motivated, and enthusiatic.
It’s like that old Duncan Donuts commercial. “time to make the donuts” where dude schlepped to work at the Donut shop daily and snuggishly, but when given something “motivational”, he no longer schlepped, he marched enthusiatically into work.
The same thing can happen when you are apathetic about voting…don’t make it right, don’t mean it’s a good idea, but it’s what happens.
lamh36
Video: Eric Garner’s widow when asked if she accepts officer’s apology in Garner’s death…HELL NO!
The headline as ABC says the wife “lashes out at cop” way to go ABC…chumps.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/eric-garners-wife-lashes-cop-killed-husband/story?id=27350764
SiubhanDuinne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Speaking of Rs, we can all relax now and quit pointing fingers. The unspeakably ineffably awful Rep. Peter King (R-epulsive) would like us all to know that Eric Garner’s death is the fault of … Eric Garner. Because he was asthmatic. And obese. So, totes his fault. Because if he had been young and buff and fit, that chokehold wouldn’t have fazed him.
In their way, Republicans are kind of fascinating.
fleeting expletive
Charles Pierce completely has this creature Paul of the muskrat head right–the five minute rule applies, always. …5….4…3….
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in dc: Many states require still follow federal procedure and require a grand jury, and many of those that allow an information/prelim hearing only do so for minor crimes. Of the states discussed in this thread, NY requires a GJ indictment and Ohio needs a GJ indictment for a homicide offense.
Linnaeus
@scav:
Ah. Though I don’t think new glasses will help much with respect to libertarians.
beltane
Aw, look at these charming Ferguson counter-protectors: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1349242/55135913#c2
Omnes Omnibus
Um, Salt ‘N’ Pepa’s Push It used by GEICO? Wow.
mai naem
@SiubhanDuinne: Wow, just wow. So the next time some wingnut dies, Asshole King will blame it on the wingnut right???
SiubhanDuinne
@mai naem:
No no no no no. You don’t understand. IOKIYAR!
skerry
@fleeting expletive: I guess I don’t care about what people did to the flag during the Ferguson protests. It’s cloth/nylon and a symbol. I’m cynical these days about what it represents. False patriotism. I’m more concerned about our loss of freedom – physical and privacy. Nation of scary cats since 9/11. (Yes, the girl scouts taught me proper flag disposal. Burn or bury)
I was never active duty military, but held DoD/DoE, among others, security clearances for decades. My patriotism is beyond reproach. I am 11th generation in this country. As WASPy as they get. DAR membership eligible. My ancestors arrived here in VA from England before the Mayflower. We have no “old country” stories in my family.
The explosion in Confederate flags and the use of US flags as clothing offends me much, more more than citizens burning a flag in Ferguson in protest. I recently even saw the Stars and Bars for sale in a store north of Pittsburgh. That’s offensive and shows how little we know our history.
Suzanne
@lamh36: I think we just need to change the rhetoric surrounding it, tho. I think our generation and younger are not good at waiting, and we talk like it’s reasonable to vote someone into office and have your life be better overnight. When we talked about long, hard slogs, and a sense of civic duty, I think people got less burned out on voting and registering and justice efforts.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: Yes, and the people, left or right, who see a president as an elected dictator who can instantly impose his will are a huge part of the the problem.
JPL
@mai naem: Well probably not if they are a member of an Irish terrorist group.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus:
amen. that is all.
eta: I actually put lots of blame on the Village and professional dems who echo their every ‘why won’t he lead’
lamh36
@Suzanne: agreed
fleeting expletive
By that I only mean that cigarettes are so heavily taxed in NYC I guess that it makes economic sense to sell cigarettes individually by the one, for 50 cents. That works out to 10 dollars a pack, and I think it’s close to the retail price in NYC, but from whom do these one-at-a-time sellers buy their cigs? I bet that guy just bought a carton for almost a hundred bucks and wanted to make 15 out of selling one at a time. He had six kids. Doesn’t matter what kind of a dad he was. He dies badly. And it should not happen. Who may have wanted him dead?
I think selling ciggies that way is not going to give the guy a huge profit. So maybe he was making a dollar a pack?
Should have been a little bit lower risk of police murder and anarchy. Really, you’re going to tackle and kill a guy over selling ciggies?
When I was taking a train to Toronto about 15 years ago a Canadian woman introduced us to the “Poverty Pack” which was 5 cigarettes you could buy for, as I remember it, $4 Canadian. Are we trying to do Prohibition on Cigs and Weed?
Authoritarianism, like rust and mold, never sleeps.
NotMax
Just musing on flags in general. What’s the ugliest national flag?
Hard to say, but the one from the short-lived free state of Counani leaps immediately to mind.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: It is pleasant to be agreed with.
TG Chicago
Showing empathy for a black person would hurt his chances at getting the GOP nomination.
fleeting expletive
We’re going to tax cigarettes into prohibition territory. He died because he wasn’t gonna make it at being Nucky Thompson.
Omnes Omnibus
@fleeting expletive: @fleeting expletive: Um, like, where are you heading with this?
NotMax
@skerry
Always found the car in The Dukes of Hazzard offensive because of the flag, and also its nickname. (Yes, the whole program was offensive, but esthetically for other reasons.)
lamh36
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: You have a party that seems to actively hate you. You have a party that includes people like John Lewis that often behaves like clueless but well meaning white people (sometimes right, sometimes demeaning, sometimes appallingly wrong). Unfortunately, those are the only viable choices right now. We need to work to make Democrats less of a clueless but well meaning party. It will take time and effort.
ETA: I know that you already know all of this and have known it for a long time.
Mike in dc
@Omnes Omnibus: True. From what I understand, Mcculloch in MO could have gone the PH route, though.
GregB
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hey, at least they didn’t do a commercial for constipation.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in dc: Yeah, I believe that MO allows starting a criminal case by information. But McCulloch didn’t want a case to go forward, did he?
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus:
:)
On a less happy note: I spent the day preparing a class on Mexico and all the dead bodies found just in the state of Guerrero while looking for the 43 which are still missing. Then this tonight. Some days the world just…ugh.
skerry
@NotMax: Yeah, me too. And if I was Godness for a day, I’d rename all the military bases and schools that have Confederate soldier names. That really bothers me.
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus: exactly, so no need to keep saying it to me. I understand it all.
Never let it be said that ya don’t know how some of the other half feel. I think of it as a sort of “inservice” so that you can be aware, that not everyone gets it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: I was trying to decide whether to watch The Seventh Seal on TCM or find happy music on YouTube before I went to bed. Happy music it is. Chess with Death is too much for tonight.
lamh36
fleeting expletive
Skerry, I’m with you; and Omnes, I’m not sure what you’re referring to? Where am I heading? With what? Taxes on cigarettes unto oblivion? There’s more story there.
NotMax
Omnes Omnibus
If you’ve never seen it, check out De Düva: The Dove sometime. Clever parody of Bergman, including a game of badminton with Death.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: I totally get that! Enjoy your happy music. I’m going to crash see if I can make any sense of all the sad data I have early tomorrow before class.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: I think that the “inservice” might also need the remainder that one party hates and the other is feeling its way to the right thing (however slowly).
Did I ever tell the story of my doing “Eenie, meenie, minee, moe” in front of some of my dad’s AA friends when I was about four? Apparently, when I was doing it and approach the “Catch a ____” verse, all the people around my dad tensed up. I said “Catch a tiger by the toe.” Everyone relaxed. I hadn’t passed a test; my dad had passed it. The point is that it is the kids that matter, and they seem to be getting better. We’ll both be dead before it all gets fixed, but, pollyanna that I am, I think that our great grandchildren won’t have to worry about race.
Omnes Omnibus
@fleeting expletive: You suddenly grabbed Rand Paul’s issue. One wonders where you were heading…..
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
I opted to watch Little Miss Sunshine again. Some days you just have to turn off the news and blogs.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: I disconnected over the T-day weekend. It might not have been enough. The parade of horribles is one thing, but what really kills me is the “We are doomed. Everything sucks. Let’s cower in a corner” schtick from people on my side.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
My 19 year old deleted his facebook account today because he couldn’t take any more racist posts from his peers. We live in a supposedly progressive town. It feels like the haters have been emboldened and unfortunately there are plenty of youngs among them.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: I spent the weekend with a bunch of people who were by and large appalled by the the grand jury in Ferguson. I don’t have any classic, racist uncles. I am just lucky, I guess.
El Caganer
If all you have is a free market, every problem looks like a commodity.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think a lot of people are grieving, including me. It is infuriating that we have to constantly fight for basic decency, fairness, and respect. We have to find a way to encourage and support each other without shaming people for feeling despair. Despair is not an irrational response to recent events but it is not a healthy place to be. If I didn’t have kids I would probably sell everything and go live in a tent in Tortola. Instead I’m going to get back in the volunteering mode and make some calls for OFA.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@NotMax:
Yeah, you want to talk about flag burners? The Scouts have burned more than all the hippies you can imagine!
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Omnes Omnibus:
My totally uninformed guess is that DAs don’t want to lose their next election because they prosecuted a cop? Great hypothesis or the greatest hypothesis?
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: I’ll just note that our society is vastly different than it was in 1914. It is better, more equal, less vicious. Can it be improved? Fuck yes. But let’s not pretend that some retrograde legislation and language from right wing assholes has returned us to 1898 or some thing like it.
Steeplejack
@Suzanne:
Aimai had a good rant about this just before the election that I bookmarked. In part:
And in a subsequent comment:
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@skerry:
I’m willing to bet there’s more confederate flags in York County, north of the Mason-Dixon line than Baltimore County, south of it. Like Carville said, PA is “Alabama up the middle.”
That being said, I won’t take that bet for Carroll County or a few others in Maryland.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Then you definitely will want to skip the following “Silence of God” trilogy: Through a Glass Darkly (1:30 a.m. EST), Winter Light (3:15 a.m.) and The Silence (4:45 a.m.). They are great movies, and kudos to TCM for showing them, but they are austere to the max. The Seventh Seal is a laff riot in comparison.
Shorter: You would not make it an hour there. I mean, you just would not.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
G has a somewhat cynical answer for you — because the cops come in and do what cops do, so there’s no question to be asked. It’s like asking why the shark eats people in Jaws.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
It’s right here on YouTube.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack:
On this, I will take your word. Others, not so much. Nest-ce pas?
Steeplejack
@MomSense:
Hey, that’s crazy talk! I have it on good authority that all the racists are old and they’re dying off, after which we will segue smoothly into a golden brown era of post-Republican democracy.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
ruemara
@fleeting expletive: Ask them why a symbol of America is worth more than the life of an American.
My Truth Hurts
I’ve been thinking about it. If the rightwing starts swallowing the narrative that some of them seem to be pushing that this man was killed because of taxes and that narrative gets them fired up about policing reforms I’ll take it. Fuck it. I guess sometimes judo is better even though you’d rather use Kung fu. It can’t be done without overwhelming support of the citizenry. It’s disingenuous, it’s for the wrong reasons, but the results could be worth that slight cognitive dissonance.
SRW1
@samiam:
Still no upgrade on the trolling loop algorithm? IT must have decided to phase out, buddy!
Brantl
Rand Paul, Professional Teahadist Douchetard; don’t try this at home kiddies.
Brendan in NC
@My Truth Hurts: Unfortunately, it’ll only get them fired up about taxes.
They’re lily white, still think they’re all part of the .01%, and that they’ll never be targets of the police.
Therefore, there’s no reason to reform anything. Unless innocent white folks start getting killed by bad cops (those who never should have been on the force). Which Isn’t likely to happen soon.
D58826
From huffington – it seems someone was indicted as a result of Gardner’s death
That will teach all of the ‘others’ not to mess with the NYPD!!!!!!. What a farce.
Original Lee
@Omnes Omnibus: About 10 years ago the hotel we were staying in had a storyteller sit in the lobby from 4-5 PM on Saturdays and Sundays. He started out telling the story of “Little Black Sambo” when the audience consisted of 5 or 6 little white kids, but as more and more kids who were not white came over to listen, the main character became “Little Sambo”. Progress of a sort.
Shakezula
Holy fuck. I snarked with a friend about how this would have the Randroids claiming that Garner’s death was caused by government overreach.
Shit, if I have to be psychic, can’t it be about something like lottery numbers, not whatever trivializing psychotic babble is going to fall out from under that dead squirrel on rebRAND’s head?
Another Holocene Human
@Hal: Her black friends are like misogynists’ moms and girlfriends in terms of the relationship real or fantasized. And I find myself fantasizing that her “black friends” are actually just one dude she screws on Sat nights who is a big fat sexist pig right back at her. I know that’s really unfair of me, but … I hate bigots.
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy: Clear conscience for saving their Jews and blowing up Nazi supply lines to Sweden (nuclear program). French people must twirl about in circles with vexatious excuses and rationalizations.
Another Holocene Human
@Mike E: Shorter Hagan: I suck at getting elected.
Everyone in NC can see she sucks but her. And to think, she had just about the perfect opponent, completely hated opportunist.
Maybe it’s you, Kay.
Another Holocene Human
@Original Lee: Progress my ass, racists disinterred that book after its well deserved burial–!!! And he shut it with the “black” because giant coward. Racist coward trying to wink wink at other whites. Shouldn’t be invited back to tell stories again. 2004 was GWB admin, Pakistan was supposedly our ally …