And Indiana’s GOP Gov. Mike Pence has just discovered that no media disaster recovery plan survives contact with the Tea Party.
WALKERTON, Ind. –A small-town pizza shop is saying they agree with Governor Pence and the signing of the controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
The O’Connor family, who owns Memories Pizza, says they have a right to believe in their religion and protect those ideals.
“If a gay couple came in and wanted us to provide pizzas for their wedding, we would have to say no,” says Crystal O’Connor of Memories Pizza.
She and her family are standing firm in their beliefs.
The O’Connor’s have owned Memories Pizza in Walkerton for 9 years.
It’s a small-town business, with small-town ideals.
“We are a Christian establishment,” says O’Connor.
The O’Connor family prides themselves in owning a business that reflects their religious beliefs.
“We’re not discriminating against anyone, that’s just our belief and anyone has the right to believe in anything,” says O’Connor.
So, when Governor Pence signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act into law, the family was not disappointed.
“We definitely agree with the bill,” says O’Connor.
When ABC 57 asked O’Connor about the negative backlash the bill has been getting for being a discriminatory piece of legislation, she says that’s simply not true.
“I do not think it’s targeting gays. I don’t think it’s discrimination,” says O’Connor. “It’s supposed to help people that have a religious belief.”
I do believe that the Indiana RFRA legislation has now been sufficiently clarified, yes? Give people a law that makes them think they have cover for bigotry, and boom, they turn into proud bigots. HOOCOODANODE.
Patricia Kayden
“It’s a small-town business, with small-town ideals.”
Is that supposed to be an euphemism for bigoted?
jonas
We are not discriminating against anyone, but we won’t serve gays. Roger that.
raven
Michael Steele went ballistic when this happened onTweety
Connecticut governor: Mike Pence is a ‘bigot’
geg6
They are who we thought they were. And more.
Belafon
They’re not discriminating. They’re just worried about the mutant supercootie created when two men kiss each other.
//
scav
Forgive my repost. ‘Sides I’ve not yet had enough coffee to come up with anything better.
Belafon
@Patricia Kayden: Isn’t it always?
Olivia
I wonder how many gay wedding pizza orders they were forced to deliver before the law.
Betty Cracker
“Memories”? That’s a dumb name for a pizza shop. An antiques joint or vintage clothing store, maybe, but pizza? They should change it to “Gayaway Pizza” or something that more accurately reflects their brand.
Ruckus
@Patricia Kayden:
It’s not the size of the town(or even it’s location), it’s the size of the ideals. Small, simple minded, you know, moronic.
Patricia Kayden
@raven: The truth hurts sometimes.
Zandar
@Betty Cracker:
Gayaway Pizza. Home Of The Big Straight!
scav
@Betty Cracker: That cardboard they serve has memories of the tomato sauce once on top of it (took a while to soften up for serving). Truth in advertising?
docg
Since businesses are now firmly ensconced in religion, it is time to return the favor. Churches, you are now businesses. Pay your taxes, as Jesus said to do.
PhoenixRising
You can tell the O’Connor family isn’t familiar with any actual gay people.
Pizza for a wedding? Well, I never.
Jon
The classics say it best:
Mike in NC
@Patricia Kayden: Also known as “small-minded”.
esc
Well I’m totally disgusted. It just seems so unnatural and against everything I was raised to believe. Pizza from small town Indiana, made by someone named O’Connor? In business for nine years? Something is wrong there, the devil’s work perhaps.
Mustang Bobby
Okay, speaking as a self-respecting member of the queer community, no gay couple I know with any sense of worth would order take-out pizza for a wedding. Period.
raven
@Mustang Bobby: Dine in perhaps?
JPL
Do they ask whether or not you coveted your neighbors wife before ordering pizza? How about lying?
Patricia Kayden
@Olivia: Much too many for their comfort, which probably means that the very thought of being forced to do such a thing even once would be devastating to their fragile religiosity.
Germy Shoemangler
@esc: Wait til you try the Chinese Restaurant run by the Lutheran family.
PhoenixRising
@Mustang Bobby: Maybe they cater LOTS of weddings like the ones in the Bible, where a possibly pregnant teen is transferred to the custody of a man in his 30s with a beard and poor dental hygiene. It IS Indiana, after all.
But, yes…these people are delusional. As in, what they’re afraid of is literally all in their heads.
gogol's wife
@scav:
That’s a slander on June Cleaver. She was a wise and broad-minded woman.
Germy Shoemangler
@esc: “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they eat.”
Waldo
Sounds like an open invitation to test their resolve. And so easily done: Order a dozen large pizzas with loads of toppings.
Wait till the pies are just about done.
Ask them to deliver the whole bunch to the reception hall of your big fat gay wedding.
Repeat as necessary.
beth
@Mustang Bobby: I’m wondering if they, like other pizzerias, have Italian food on their menu. I’ve been to a lot of weddings that have catered trays of baked ziti and chicken marsala but I’ve never seen one with pizza on the menu.
Breezeblock
What gay would have their wedding be pizza? What straight would have their wedding be pizza???
If I was invited to a wedding like that, I send them $20 and decline the invite.
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker:
Do a Google search for “Memories Pizza.”
Mustang Bobby
@raven: Artisanal and delivered by well-muscled guys in tight tank-tops singing Neapolitan love songs.
JCT
@Betty Cracker: Or “NOHOMO Pizza” – they can pretend it’s a Native American word – inclusive!
And the Yelpers already descended on them.
rlrr
@jonas:
We are not discriminating against anyone, but we won’t serve gays. Roger that.
They likely believe gay people aren’t actually human beings…
Germy Shoemangler
@Cervantes: I did and it took me first to a yelp review:
“5 Stars for having the courage to stand up to the LGBTQUEERFAGNAZI thugs!
Look at the vile filthy pictures the queers are uploading here … this represents who and what they really are. Thank you for standing up to evil!”
http://www.yelp.com/biz/memories-pizza-walkerton
Belafon
@Mustang Bobby: How about those shotgun gay weddings?
Germy Shoemangler
I am sorry, but I am loving the yelp reviews:
Oops…
Pulled Pork Sandwich $5.75
Spring Salad Add Ham Or Chicken $3.20, $4.20
Leviticus 11:7-8 NIV
And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.
rlrr
@Cervantes:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/memories-pizza-walkerton
scav
Yoikes, I had forgotten about the ubiquity of menustration taboos! Testing for that condition of uncleanliness at all the pizza joints et alia in Hooisierville will not only be really interesting, but is really going to slow things down. Cold Pies for the Pious.
Germy Shoemangler
This yelper hit the nail on the head:
Only two customers have reviewed this place in the supposedly nine years since it opened. What is the point of announcing your plans to discriminate against Gay customers when you have NO customers, Gay or Straight, to speak of?
This is a transparent attempt to fly the Christian martyr “mean Gays are calling us bigots” flag in the hopes that other mouth-breathers in the area will rally to them and their crappy pizza the way Southerners rallied to Chick Fil-A. Deny them the oxygen of your outrage, and their uninspired fare will put them out of business in due course.
Cervantes
@gogol’s wife:
Not only that, the Cleavers lived in either New York or California, I think, and Norman Rockwell’s Thanksgiving dinner definitely took place in Vermont.
Still, it’s a good effort and I do agree that “[Hoosier] Hospitality really is just lying there ripe for the taking.”
scav
@gogol’s wife: Then what’s she doing serving breakfast to the cast of Father Knows Best!?
Eta, ok, I said Roast so she’s serving them dinner. My abject appologies to Mrs Cleaver.
boatboy_srq
@Patricia Kayden: I think it’s a euphemism for “inbred”. That’s just me, though.
@Mustang Bobby: Pizza is one of those foods. The bears up here have a hard enough time giving it away at Friday happy hours. Definitely with you here. “Pizza? For a wedding? Really?” OTOH, I can see Bears’ Superbowl Sunday being a lot less Italianate – and a lot healthier – now that pizza is strictly Memories.
Gopher2b
Like a gay couple would be caught dead catering their wedding with pizza. It’s called class, people.
Mustang Bobby
@Belafon: If you’re going with the Western theme, wear assless chaps and a cowboy hat.
Frankensteinbeck
@Patricia Kayden:
Yes.
But it’s also slightly more complicated than that. Not just bigoted in terms of the big name race/sex/orientation type stuff. ‘Small town values’ means ‘conformity’. Everyone judges everyone else, everyone knows everyone else, and there are few secrets. This means that everyone is expected to toe the line of whatever becomes the dominant set of social prejudices. People who conform are very friendly, because they’re always among friends. Nails that stick up get hammered down. Wearing your hair in the wrong style can result in the same amount of hate and abuse as being the wrong religion or sexual orientation does. Everyone is carrying a seething anger from being repressed themselves, so they love an excuse to declare a pariah and start with the cruelty. Public scandal is a major sin. If you maintain a good reputation through conformity, crimes like rape and domestic abuse will be politely ignored. It’s not just bigotry, it’s bigotry as an entire way of life, permeating every aspect.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@docg: This, a million times over. They’re in politics, they’re in business. Time to end the 501 exemption forever for all churches, no exemptions.
Felonius Monk
And so it was written in the Book of Hoosiers, “Thou shall sell no pizza to those of gayness, lest thou choke on an anchovy.”
scav
And shit, will they stop making it so easy? What SHAPE are those Piety Pies of Memory? Do they conform to the standards outlined by bill #246 of the 1897 legislation of their General Assembly, the Indiana Pi Bill? This Pies are Square plot has been going on for a long long time apparently. . . .
pseudonymous in nc
Y’know, I’m going to be nice here, because this feels like scapegoating.
Did they volunteer this, or did some journo from the South Bend ABC affiliate head off into the sticks to find the most likely candidate to say “we ain’t sendin’ no pizza to no gay weddings” and stick a camera in their face?
I’m not massively comfortable with a random small-town business — even one whose opinions are backward — being offered up to the horde. It’s kicking down no less than the Indiana bill was kicking down.
Tom
@Jon: Oh, you beat me to it….
MomSense
@JPL:
Boil a kid in its mother’s milk?
Moses did smash the 10 that most people quote so I think this may be number 10 in the commandments that are in effect.
boatboy_srq
@jonas: Of course they don’t serve gays. They serve pizza. Gays take too long to prepare and the ovens required are extremely expensive.
/snark
Scott S.
@Felonius Monk: Anchovy? Sausage, surely?
JPL
@CONGRATULATIONS!: It’s time to do away with non-profit exemptions.
boatboy_srq
@Germy Shoemangler: WIN.
pseudonymous in nc
@Germy Shoemangler:
Er, no. It’s a town of 2,000 people, and it’s meant to have a buzzing Yelp page? FFS, I know some people believe that if it’s not on the internet, it doesn’t exist, but it’s a big fucking world out there.
gbear
I want them to tell us how many straight wedding receptions have ordered their pizza.
If someone just calls in an order under a last name and gives a delivery location, how are they going to know if it’s a gay event until they arrive? Will they dump the pizzas in the trash rather than take money for them?
It’s probably dangerous to display a rainbow flag in their town, but I’d like to see what they’d do if they deliver a pizza to an address with a flag.
Ned
What is it about pizza shops that so many of them are Tea Party establishments? I.e. Herman Cain, et al.
cmorenc
@jonas:
Reminds me of the tag-line from a classic Albert Collins blues number: “I ain’t drunk…I’ve just been drinkin‘”.
Frankensteinbeck
@gbear:
Almost certainly. I don’t know why people have trouble believing that hate can overcome economic interest. People do stupid shit for hate, pride, and Hell, love and kindness all the time.
Germy Shoemangler
@pseudonymous in nc: Looks like the reporters went looking for reaction to the law:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94exLI-Y0z8
Cervantes
@jonas:
kindness
Who couldda known Christians could be as stupid as TeaHaddists? Yea well most TeaHaddists call themselves Christians so I guess there is an overlap. I had hoped it was just one direction but apparently it isn’t.
Here is the definitive test for these people. Take the example used in the header. Ask this woman if she walked into a shop and the proprieter denied her services due to the woman’s Christianity if she fells like that would be discrimination. Obviously she will say yes it would be. Point out her saying to gays is the very same thing. She’ll deny it but she may learn that is what we all mean.
boatboy_srq
@pseudonymous in nc: The trouble is that there are precious few big businesses stupid enough to go along with the Reichwing. Chik-fil-a is probably the largest retail target we’ve ever had in the last few years: almost all the others are Mom’n’Pop storefronts. The days of Cracker Barrel not serving Those People are long gone. It also doesn’t help that any business expecting to survive in anything bigger than Small Town America knows that there’s no nearly no business worth turning away. If in 2015 you can find a Fortune 500 (in either state) with C-level leadership shortsighted/meanspirited enough to p!ss off a major customer base by agreeing with this horsesh!t, please let us know.
Patrick
And yet Jesus had no problems catering to thieves and prostitutes. I don’t think this lady has a clue as to what it truly means to be a Christian.
Belafon
@Ned: Lot’s of small businesses are run by conservatives, but remember that pizza place where the owner would hug Obama every time he showed up?
CONGRATULATIONS!
@JPL: Could not agree more. Once you get a good up n’ close look at how they are actually used, vs. the intent, I have no problem advocating for the elimination of the entire legal concept of “non-profit”. I didn’t want to dilute my message with a rant on the evils on non-profits, but hey, you started it, so here we are.
Do away with them, period.
Roger Moore
@Mustang Bobby:
Can we please destroy this term with fire? Chaps are, by definition, assless. Thank you, the committee to destroy and wipe out unnecessary, redundant pleonasms.
boatboy_srq
@Ned: It’s a function of fast food; pizza is just the best current example. Cracker Barrel, Chik-fil-a, Big Earl’s (remember the Houston BBQ-joint-Yelped-as-gay-bar?) have all had their day.
@pseudonymous in nc: Memories may be small potatoes, but they’re not the only ones making this noise. Some are even going out of their way to get heard saying these offensive things.
scav
@Roger Moore: I would say some chaps in chaps are far far from assless, which I thought was rather the point.
Betty Cracker
@Cervantes: Why?
beth
@kindness: I have the perfect example to ask these folks. We have a Sunday youth group at our church and we all take turns providing dinner for them. Most of us just get a large order of pizzas or order fried chicken or a deli platter from the supermarket. If the pizzeria or supermarket was owned by Jews or Muslims, would they be justified in refusing our order?
Dave C
@JPL:
This point cannot be repeated often enough. If this whole argument is about sincere religious conviction, why is it that most people who are outraged about their religious liberties being violated seem only to care about a particular class of sin? I’m fairly certain that the Bible has a whole lot more to say against greed than it does homosexuality, but you’ll never see somebody refuse to a cater a wedding due to the greediness of the wedding celebrants.
pseudonymous in nc
@boatboy_srq:
Well, you take advantage of that, and point out to the ideologues who are citing business concerns that a dollar is a dollar.
I’m just not convinced of the journalistic value of seeking out some random pizza place in Bumfuck, Indiana and asking them if they catered to gay weddings. They might as well have asked them whether they would provide pizza for Miley Cyrus’s “molly-and-mozzarella” themed birthday party on a yacht off Malibu. It suggests that ABC57 of South Bend were scraping the bottom of the bigot barrel, which in turn suggests that there’s not really much support for active business bigotry.
Scott S.
@Patrick: If you actually got Christians to read the Bible all the way through, not just that one chapter in Leviticus, most of them would start burning Bibles.
boatboy_srq
@Roger Moore: The term will only go away when Peter LaBarbera shuts up (or comes out). I wouldn’t recommend destruction with fire; although a few Flaming Mames might provide the video evidence needed to induce silence.
Melissa
@scav: The Cleavers are from Leave it to Beaver. Princess, Kitty and Bud Anderson are from Father Knows Best. I’m not criticizing, Merging the two is a good idea, Perhaps we can morph them into inane Bible thumbping fantasy family.
debbie
Best condemnation of religion I’ve ever read, even if it was unintentional.
Germy Shoemangler
@pseudonymous in nc: There are no good guys here. The local news are trying to drum up eyeballs for their advertisers, and the pizza folks are ignorant bigots.
Elizabelle
@Ned:
You ask, K-Thug delivers. “Pepperoni Turns Partisan”, Paul Krugman, March 6 of this year.
Here’s the link to the Bloomberg report on Big Pizza’s lobbying efforts.
Although: Memories Pizza is a guppy in this industry. It’s a small business, ease of entrance, ease of exit. Walkerton looks kind of isolated, so not that many dining options, perhaps.
MattF
It’s a little too good to be true. An Xtian pizzeria in Indiana, owned by the pious O’Connor family. Won’t serve pizza to you-know-who, because. And not with pepperoni either, because. What the hell… excuse me, what the heck does pizza have to do with Christianity? I sure don’t know, I’m just a visitor here.
currants
@Cervantes: bwahahahaha!
West of the Cascades
@Dave C: because for many of these Christianists, who read the Bible selectively, greed IS a part of their sincere religious convictions.
Patrick
Remember this quote the next time you hear Republicans blame the policies of Democrats being bad for small business. When they can afford to turn business/revenue away, it sounds like they are doing just fine.
debbie
@Melissa:
There was nothing in either show that would earn them the label of Bible thumping, especially when there are actual examples, ie Duck Dynasty, Honey Boo Boo, etc.
Roger Moore
@Dave C:
Because that’s the sin their church has spent the most time talking about.
kc
@Betty Cracker:
I just did one for the heck of it. It doesn’t make the name seem any less dumb.
bemused
I watched the tv station video and even aside from all the religious themed plaques, the decor was just awful. Kitschy. Plastic flowers. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had crocheted toilet paper covers in the restrooms. If I wanted a pizza and walked in that place, I’m pretty sure I’d walk back out after viewing the “ambiance” there.
Paul in KY
Great Richard Pryor line: “Been doin cocaine for 20 years & I ain’t hooked yet!”
A Ghost To Most
http://www.abc57.com/story/28681598/rfra-first-business-to-publicly-deny-same-sex-service
While they work and work to beat us over the head with their moldy goatherders manual.
Patrick
@debbie:
Oh I am pretty sure she really means Christian belief, rather than religious. I seriously doubt she would feel as charitable about Muslims discriminating against somebody.
Paul in KY
@Patrick: But they were STRAIGHT thieves & prostitutes!
Belafon
@Roger Moore: And it’s the one “sin” they haven’t committed.
beth
@Roger Moore:
Because that’s a sin most of them aren’t committing. Almost all of them have lied or cheated or coveted. If they haven’t they can see where they might do so in the future or they know someone who has. It’s only lately that they’ve realized that they may actually know a gay person and like Rob Portman, when they’re sure someone they love is gay they usually change their minds about it.
Ned
@Belafon: Yes, I do remember the hugging guy.
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker:
@kc:
Nothing to do with the name. Try it this way.
Lurking Canadian
I do not understand the hair these people are trying to split. “We don’t discriminate against anybody, we just won’t serve those people because we don’t like their kind”.
What exactly do they think “discriminate” means, in that context, if not “we won’t serve them because we don’t like their kind”?
I mean, I get that they’re evil, but usually I can follow the evil if I contort my brain significantly enough. In this case, I have no idea.
boatboy_srq
@Elizabelle: Good catch.
Patrick
@JPL:
I wish the media would ask Pence this very question. There just is so much hypocrisy here.
Ned
@Elizabelle: Ha! How did miss that? So, it really is a “thing”.
CONGRATULATIONS!
I said this yesterday and I’ll say it again: I have never worked for a business owner that would turn away ANY business, whether it be from Christians, Martians, queers, pandas, scientists…whatever. Cash is cash. If you’re so blinded by your prejudices that you think it’s OK to turn away business from people you don’t like, you’re not a business owner. You’re a bigot who has a side hobby.
Bubblegum Tate
@Germy Shoemangler:
That’s all anybody needs to say. Fuck ’em.
currants
@Roger Moore: Yes, quite different from, say, ‘chapped asses.’
Elizabelle
removing most of my comment, because Ghost to Most got there first, around #89.
Gist was this, from Zandar’s link:
Kevin O’Connor, Crystal’s father, says he believes the negative backlash the bill and its supporters are getting isn’t fair.
“That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual. They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” says Kevin O’Connor.
cmorenc
If I was in business, YOU BET I’D DISCRIMINATE…in favor of people carrying green money or VISA cards their bank would accept charges on.
elmo
Pizza. At a wedding.
I love pizza like normal people love their families; in nearly a half-century of life, there has been one ,singular, solitary instance that I’ve found a pizza I didn’t enjoy (olive tapenade – tasted like it had been koshered and then they forgot to rinse). But at my wedding?? My wife would have divorced me at the reception.
(Two of my best friends keep kosher, so buying food for our reception was a fun challenge. We ended up with lots of different veggies, chips, pretzels, dips, and then sushi for the main. Cost about $1K including two cases of wine.)
Dave C
@Roger Moore:
I’ve spent a fair amount of time in conservative evangelical churches, and I honestly doubt that’s true in most cases. I’m guessing that a lot of these folks hear plenty about homosexuality, but probably most of that is not coming from the pulpit.
Cervantes
@Lurking Canadian:
Not what they are saying:
CONGRATULATIONS!
@A Ghost To Most: I love this quote so much. I liked girls from the time I was old enough to understand that I could like anything. I never woke up one day and thought “damn, getting bored with the girls, some man ass would really hit the spot right about now”. Wasn’t a choice. I liked what I liked from day one.
Every time I hear one of these guys say “I chose to be straight” I cannot help but think “well, at some point you obviously thought being…not straight…was an option. That’s very interesting!”
And by interesting I mean that there’s a lot more people out there living in closets than I originally thought. I try to feel bad for them but they do so much damage to so many people that I can’t.
Amir Khalid
@Betty Cracker:
For some reason, the word “memories” makes me think of Elaine Page dressed up as a cat.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@pseudonymous in nc:
I wanted to highlight this, because I suspect you’re right. Like so many causes taken up by the right wing, this is a law in search of a problem. I’m sure Pence is getting calls and letters in support of the bill from people who don’t actually own service businesses, but who really like to imagine that they would totally discriminate against gay couples, if only they owned a business.
Elizabelle
Per the 2010 census, Walkerton is 95% white; 5% Latino, with a smattering of other ethnicities. It’s 18 miles from a major interstate, located in northeast Indiana. Nearest big city is South Bend.
The town website features 8 churches and 9 restaurants, including a McDonalds.
They’ve got John Glenn High School.
FlipYrWhig
I feel like the phrase “religious belief” has gone in a truly weird direction.
germy shoemangler
Tom The Dancing Bug: “Lo, In the Land of Indiana”
http://boingboing.net/2015/04/01/tom-the-dancing-bug-lo-in-th.html
BGinCHI
Give me a Jesus Wept with extra anchovies.
This quote is EPIC:
I hope the national media puts this out over and over. Lots of shoes gonna drop over this.
A Ghost To Most
@Scott S.:
No they wouldn’t; they’ve already burned the pages that don’t serve their twisted ideology.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
So the O’Connors reckon that selling a gay person a pizza for dinner is okay, but selling that same person a pizza to serve at a same-sex wedding reception is sinful. I’m not sure how they make the moral distinction between the two.
Belafon
@Cervantes: I kind of think that a lot of this is like most people’s reaction to evolution vs creationism. Most of this stuff people just haven’t thought that hard about. “Science says we evolved from simpler organisms; my church says God made us. I haven’t really tried to reconcile the two.” Similarly, with regards to gays: “I have no problem serving anyone who comes through those doors. Could what they are doing be against my beliefs? I don’t know, I haven’t been thinking about it until you asked me. Yeah, maybe.”
Mustang Bobby
Well, first, it’s not a choice, but even if it was, what the hell business is it of his? People choose their religion and yet we’re supposed to defer to it to the point that it’s embedded in the First Amendment.
germy shoemangler
@Amir Khalid: O’Connor is of the opinion that Sex ouf of wedlock is preferable for teh gayz.
See all the privileges they enjoy?!
kc
@Cervantes:
Ah, OK.
Davebo
@Ruckus: You, like they, are confusing “ideals” with “ideas”.
Cacti
The philosophical arguments in support of this law from the right are like a dusted off greatest hits collection from the segregationists of 50 years ago.
Elizabelle
@Mustang Bobby: Does anyone know if teh gays’ choosing their sexual identity theme took off once some people realized it was no longer cool — or legal — to discriminate on basis of race?
What the O’Connors’ attitudes tells me, primarily, is that they don’t know very many gay people.
Or — even worse — they do, perhaps a family member, and they’re deeply ashamed.
NorthLeft12
@Breezeblock: My wife’s cousin had pizza and beer for the wedding reception held at a Union hall. It sort of fit her and her husband’s personalities and budget.
Not everyone can have a fully catered, country club wedding reception. Some of you guys seemed to have led sheltered lives.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Amir Khalid:
Amir, would you be so kind as to email me through my website linked above? I have some questions about travel to Kuala Lumpur that I don’t want to bore everyone else with.
JaneE
@Mustang Bobby: As someone straight, pizza and weddings do not go together. Not even Wolfgang Puck. And you are right again. Religion is a choice, sexual orientation isn’t.
BGinCHI
David Letterman says it’s not the Indiana he remembers as a kid.
Well, I grew up there as well and homophobia was rampant and widespread, just like everywhere else in the country.
Bullshit nostalgia is not going to help this. We need to admit that we have a damaged culture and that we are trying to evolve out of it.
shortstop
@Dave C: It’s because it’s a sexual “sin” they’re not personally interesting in “committing” (with the exception of the subset of self-hating closet cases). Therefore, it’s the WORST SIN EVAH.
Jesus himself said nothing about being gay, but he did say quite clearly that unless your spouse is unfaithful, divorce followed by remarriage is not an acceptable option — if you do it, you will be living in adultery with the new spouse. Yet in every comment thread on this topic, you’ll find people piously telling the gheys, “I’m sorry that you’re sexually attracted to your own gender; I do feel compassion for your dilemma, but scripture is clear that you must live chastely to avoid committing an abomination.” Those same people are VERY quick to insist that “God wouldn’t want me to stay married to an abuser, an alcoholic, a gambler, a lazy person, etc., etc., and god wouldn’t want me to live alone after I divorce said person.” It seems that “Sorry for your pain, but you gotta suck it up and do what the bible tells you or burn in hell” is not relevant when they’re the ones being biblically told they have to suffer.
Paul in KY
@Amir Khalid: Yea, wheneth they enter thy abode, shalleth thee serveth them pizza & minister unto them on the wickedness of their ways. But, lo, ifeth they wanteth yon pizza to beeth delivered to their icky mariage ceremony, thou shalt refuseth, as ye shall not be allowed to stay and catigate them.
So sayeth the Lord.
It’s all right there, Amir in 2nd Dominoeans
Central Planning
@Zandar:
Gayaway Pizza: You’ll love our sausage!
Cervantes
@NorthLeft12:
That’s putting it mildly.
Having all these expectations about a “proper” wedding reception is just ridiculous. The couple is getting married. Be happy and hopeful for them.
Central Planning
@Germy Shoemangler:
Are they open Christmas Eve?
Karen in GA
@A Ghost To Most:
Does he now?
Punchy
So they’re not serving pizza to divorcees or single mothers either? I’d think there’d be a shit-ton of both of ’em in rural Indiana.
g
The O’Connor’s say they just don’t agree with gay marriages and wouldn’t cater them if asked to.
So you don’t do business with people you disagree with. Where do you go next?
“I just don’t agree with the Walkerton City Council, and wouldn’t cater their retreat if asked to.”
“I just don’t agree with the Metallurgical Society of America, and wouldn’t cater their luncheon if asked to.”
“I just don’t agree with the First Congregationalist Church, and wouldn’t cater to their youth group if asked to.”
“I’m just not a fan of the Michigan State Spartans, and wouldn’t deliver to a tailgate party if asked to.”
“I just don’t agree with Democratic Party meetings, and wouldn’t cater them if asked to.”
“I just don’t like Guns n’ Roses music, and I wouldn’t deliver to their backstage dressing room if asked to.”
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Done.
NobodySpecial
These idiots don’t even cater, according to their Yelp! page. Who the fuck do they think they’re fooling?
Cacti
“A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples.”
-Jesus
“Die Homo!”
-Right wing christians
Amir Khalid
Off topic:
BBC reports Joni Mitchell is in an ICU somewhere in Los Angeles. The Beeb has yet to find out what’s wrong.
Mike E
@BGinCHI: Ripping the hoods off these people is unnecessary when they reveal themselves so voluntarily. With glee, even…just hit “record”.
Central Planning
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Same here. But so what if it was a choice? Why are people hung up on the “choice” to be LBGTQ?
ETA: Yeah, what Mustang Bobby said upthread at 118
Mandalay
This issue is in court in Northern Ireland right now:
The baker’s lawyer came up with an interesting argument:
We can now look forward to some bozo actually pulling that stunt just for giggles.
Elizabelle
Here’s one way to deal with the O’Connor family of Memories Pizza.
Per video, there is a framed sign on the counter:
Maybe drop them a message in the box, if you love small-town pizzerias brimming with Christian kitsch and no alcohol available. Lots of street parking available.
Or mail them a prayer request. Maybe they’ll pray for you too. If you’re straight.
Memories Pizza
608 Roosevelt Road
Walkerton, Indiana 46574
Cervantes
@Belafon:
What’s hilarious, if you have my sense of humor, is that an important experiment investigating the origin of terrestrial life was performed by a native of Walkerton, Indiana. As I recall, the town’s middle school is (still) named after him.
Brutusettu
@Scott S.: What if they tried to read an attempt at a literal direct translation of the earliest manuscripts? They might just go KJV version only, God hates teh gays, exegesis is of the devil after that.
Elizabelle
@BGinCHI:
I spent a few childhood years in Indiana. Can’t speak to homophobia — I was too young to notice — but definitely picked up on the racism.
Noticed the cousins remaining in a neighborhood where white flight was well underway (mid 1960s). Heard the mentions of Martin Luther Coon (not from my cousins!), but in the environment.
Botsplainer
@pseudonymous in nc:
I repeat my Yelp! observation.
Since your business doesn’t even have to be a member to get smeared, I look at it like coming to your business, finding that somebody has drawn dicks on your door in sharpie and thrown eggs at your windows, but you’re prohibited from cleaning it off.
The other thing I can say about Yelp! is that consumers have zero trust in it – I claimed my page and monitor it (since the spouse of a client decided to color dicks on mine in bright green phosphorescent paint – she was a harridan, and he’s in her thrall), and it still doesn’t draw but about 0-2 views a month.
Germy Shoemangler
@Central Planning: Sadly, no.
Felonius Monk
@Mandalay: And could a printer (not necessarily a Muslim printer) refuse the government’s request to print an order for Wanted: Dead or Alive posters because his religious beliefs don’t condone killing under any circumstance?
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Central Planning: Because then it cannot be entitled to be treated the same way as race or gender, two things that people have no control over.
A big issue for both gay folks and their detractors.
muddy
@Patricia Kayden: It is a euphemism, and a long running one.
shortstop
@Botsplainer:
Was she also a harpy, shrew, virago, hag and ballbreaker?
Villago Delenda Est
@Elizabelle:
“O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.”
shortstop
@CONGRATULATIONS!: As has been pointed out, religion is a choice, and it certainly is protected. So, depending on the jurisdiction and context, are marital status, parental status, military status, etc.
JPL
@NorthLeft12: I think it sounds like fun. I’m thinking about bbq for a rehearsal dinner for the son.
Felonius Monk
I guess nothing has really changed except the names:
Calouste
@Mandalay: There is definitely a distinction between choosing or not choosing to make a specific product or provide or not provide a specific service based on that product or service, or choosing or not choosing to sell to a specific customer based on that customer.
In general though, this whole thing is not about business owners not being able to refuse service in certain circumstances, because they can always lie about being already booked for that day. It’s about them being able to refuse service and be assholes about it.
beth
Looks like Hutchinson got scared off – he’s asked the legislature to recall the bill and make some changes to bring it in line with the federal law. WalMart talk, he listen.
brantl
No, I submit to you they were always proud bigots. These kneejerk reflexes don’t develope overnight.
Mandalay
When Walmart’s CEO tells you to jump, as Governor of Arkansas the only question you have is “How high, sir”?
Any politician in Arkansas who pisses off Walmart will be looking for a new job.
shortstop
@beth: Exactly. Nothing happens in Arkansas without the Waltons’ say-so.
TooManyJens
@JPL: We had BBQ for our rehearsal dinner, and it was a blast.
mezz
This is a quote from the old man, from a TPM story:
People, please please please, anytime you see a statement like this, confront them with this rejoinder:
And when did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?”
If they say “uh, well, never, I was always like this” – Bingo! It’s the same for homosexuals too, you bigot.
TooManyJens
@mezz:
“And what was that process like, exactly? How did you go about deciding? Did you shop around, get some quotes?”
Elizabelle
@Villago Delenda Est: Perfect.
brantl
@Waldo:
FOR THE WIN!!!! Do this about 300 times, in 3 weeks.
delk
There really is no reason to go to Walkerton. You only would go to Walkerton because you specifically have to go to Walkerton. Any place in that area, Merrillville, LaPorte, Michigan City, Valparaiso, South Bend (Notre Dame) Elkhart, and Fort Wayne, does not have a direct connection.
Even if you wanted to go to Indianapolis or any of the Ohio border cities, you would not go anywhere near Walkerton.
One and a half hours from Chicago. So is Milwaukee and much better pizza.
http://transfermke.com
rikyrah
Faith in Values: State Religious Freedom Restoration Acts Threaten True Religious Liberty
By Sally Steenland | Wednesday, April 1, 2015
There’s an important debate going on in our country that lots of folks aren’t paying much attention to. I can’t say that I blame them. After all, with work, kids, bills, errands, and more—how much energy is left over to think about religious freedom?
But here’s the thing: The current debate about religious freedom is already shaping laws and policies that will affect each one of us. Many of these laws and policies are harmful and will have far-reaching consequences that affect the everyday details of our lives—from our ability to shop at certain businesses to the cost of our health care—that even the supporters of these laws are likely to regret.
That’s because the laws and policies in question go too far. They promote a kind of religious freedom on steroids, a muscular bullying that aims to get its way regardless of the harm or cost it may inflict on others.
But one can support religious freedom and oppose that kind of harm at the same time.
Take a look at the law passed in Indiana last week. It’s called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act—also known as RFRA—and is modeled on the federal RFRA, which was the basis for last year’s Hobby Lobby case before the Supreme Court.
The impetus for the Indiana RFRA was a 2014 court ruling in favor of marriage equality in the state. A few months after the ruling, conservatives in the Indiana Legislature introduced the bill, which would allow any business, corporation, or individual to claim their religious belief as a defense if sued by a private party. In other words, a baker, florist, photographer, jeweler, hotel owner—the list goes on—could refuse to serve lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender, or LGBT, people and cite his or her religion as a valid defense in court.
A number of other states, including Georgia and Michigan, are considering their own RFRA bills. In each state, conservative opponents to marriage equality are hurrying to lock in religious exemptions as a way to opt out of civil rights laws. They know that time is running out, politically and socially, as support for such refusals declines.
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/religion/news/2015/04/01/110244/state-religious-freedom-restoration-acts-threaten-true-religious-liberty/
El Caganer
Isn’t that how that Tom Petty song went? “Last chance for Michael Pence/One more time to show he’s dense?” Or something like that.
fuckwit
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Sure, they chose to be straight. Just like they chose to be white. And they chose to be male. And they chose to be born in America. And they of course deserve all the privileges that they obtained so meritoriously, by having made such good choices.
delk
A guy posting on one of the gay sites I read said that as their reception was winding down, they ordered a bunch of pizzas to help guests soak up the alcohol.
Others boxed up a couple of slices to have cold pizza in the morning.
Everyone was happy, and all the pizza was finished off.
I think that’s pretty cool.
Elizabelle
Sherman Alexie has cancelled a few Indiana gigs. One at Notre Dame end of this month, one in Indianapolis in September.
Elizabelle
Alexie touches on “Gay is the New Black”, and how the GOP is using that.
Mike in NC
No doubt ALEC is pushing these RFRA bills. Just read there is one working its way through the Tea Party-dominated North Carolina senate.
ThresherK
@bemused: I wouldn’t be surprised if they had crocheted toilet paper covers in the restrooms.
“If you ever went shopping at Crate And Barrel for a Marie Antoinette, you might be a redneck.”
Larv
@Cervantes:
This just makes it more clear that this has very little to do with religion and everything to do with politics. The O’Connors don’t have an overwhelming religious objection to homosexuality, they just want legal cover to discriminate against gay weddings as a means of political protest against recent court decisions in favor of the same.
pseudonymous in nc
@Mike in NC:
ALEC do a lot of shit, but I don’t think they’re responsible for this one. They’re all about creating a low-regulation environment for big Bidness, not saving small-town pizza shops from catering gay weddings.
I see a lot of [State] Family Institute / Focus On The Family orgs sending out model RFRA legislation. Not ALEC this time.
LanceThruster
It might have already been mentioned, but Princess, Kitten, and Bud were part of the Anderson clan of “Father Knows Best.”
Citizen Alan
@Cervantes:
THIS MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE AT ALL!! So these cretins make a point of saying that they won’t discriminate against gays who dine-in or carry-out, but under no circumstances will they cater a gay wedding that for some baffling reason want’s PIZZA!?!? What the hell do these people think goes on at gay weddings?? That the wedding is officiated by a Satanic priest in assless chaps and immediately after the “I do” the orgy starts??
Franc Kufmann
@Larv:
Yes, you’re being punked. It’s a town of 2,000, likely few gays, very few same sex-marriages, and likely the shop has never and would never be asked to have pizzas catered to a SSM ceremony. They said they’d still gladly serve pizzas to gays.
So they get free publicity with this and more orders from the townsfolk as a result of their detractors nationwide doing everything they can to denounce them. And you guys act like you’re the smart ones.
Larv
@Citizen Alan:
It makes no sense as a religious matter, but that’s because it isn’t a religious matter. This is purely an attempt to use religion as a shield to vent their pique over having lost the political fight over gay marriage. That’s all. They lost, and now they want to take their ball home rather than let the gays play.
Dennis
@Larv:
It makes perfect sense. They get free publicity and will get plenty of business from it. No one is going to drive there to protest or try to put them out of business, but folks will drive there to get pizza because of the novelty and/or they agree with them and admire them for taking a public stand.
Jamie
Maybe it’s just me, but how many people have pizza at their wedding?
Another Holocene Human
@Germy Shoemangler: They are being savaged … I actually feel bad for them, it’s going from funny to straight up scatalogical. Then there’s an april first not-sure-if-serious-or-trolling one star review that claimed the sausage was raw. Well played, Chicago man, well played.
Another Holocene Human
@Germy Shoemangler: I was expecting a joke on the fact that pulling the pork = Catholic birth control, ie it doesn’t work
brain way in the gutter today
I would not eat “barbeque” from an Irish-owned rural Indiana “pizza” restaurant … I’d go to Kroger and get something dried from a box and wash it down with wine first. Indiana eatin’ is slim pickin’s unless you like souse.
(Bloomie has decent food because college town. I especially like the Irish pub downtown … note, Irish establishment that sells IRISH food, not horrible attempts at Sicilian food.)
Another Holocene Human
My totally prejudiced snotty Northeastern corridor take on ethnicities owning pizza joints.
Sicilian: om nom nom
Greek: hell yeah, add a side salad
Mexican: please … no … sorry
Irish: that … isn’t food
Another Holocene Human
@scav: If you are keeping kosher and shomer n’gia, the only food item you are buying there is coke in a bottle, but not during passover, and no touchy-fingers when you pay.
I think that no finger touching thing is gross and dehumanizing, but nobody asked me.
Another Holocene Human
@pseudonymous in nc: Are you serious? Nobody put a gun to their helds and made them volunteer that they welcome the return of Jim Crow 2.0.
Cervantes
@Citizen Alan:
Right. That’s what they are saying.
I don’t pretend to understand it, but it’s a clear enough stance. They are willing to serve gay people. They are not asking for the right to deny service to gay people per se. What they don’t want to, or cannot, countenance is the way that political and judicial activity threatens to alter (or has altered) their notion of marriage, which is evidently an aspect of their religion.
Calling them “cretins” is unlikely to help, methinks.
Another Holocene Human
@boatboy_srq: Whoa, don’t excuse Cracker Barrel so quickly. They had a settlement or a consent decree or something because there is a big sign about serving everybody when you walk in the door. The last time I was there (sigh) I did see a fairly racially and age mixed crowd, which surprised me. The young Black waitress did seem really harried, though. I gave her some extra tip.
Very different from Waffle House which brags about being front and center about not discriminating even when it was unpopular. Dunno how true that is but they are based in Atlanta and Atlanta claimed to be “too busy to hate” during the 60s. Sadly white flight happened and the ring suburbs are haterade central. They’re losing, though. And how sweet it is.
Always see mixed staff/clientele at the Awful House.
Another Holocene Human
@MattF:
Confused cats for pizza-christianity thought Margherita pizza was named for Saint Margaret, not Princess Margaret?
Pizza sauce is red, like the blood of Christ?
The nuns used to order cheese pizzas on Fridays in Lent.
I never made a pizza with a cross on it, or a trefoil or triangle. Or a Jesus fish for that matter. Can’t think of a single stupid Christian legend involving pizzas. Pizza dough IS leavened, so no last supper connection. (Roman pizza is more crackery, though … Hadrian imported a million Jews into Rome, could be why? j/k)
The Virgin Mary’s crown of stars could resemble a pepperoni pizza, I suppose. (American, not Italian, pepperoni.)
Well, I’m stumped.
brantl
@Ned:
Because pizza is the 2nd easiest food to prepare other than pre-sweetened cereal.
nanute
Is it asking too much that Memories Pizza becomes just that?
Gavin
So… Where is the line? Do we preemptively step in and prevent all possible bigotry everywhere, or do we let people express their beliefs and the market identify and punish the bigots? At what point do you own your own art and will?
The same is true the other way, remember: A Jewish patron cannot demand kosher food in a restaurant. This also applies to a church. The Catholic Church, for example, demands that (1) marriage be between one man and one woman, (2) both parties by confirmed Catholics and (3) neither have a previous deemed valid, non-annulled marriage.
If you want to argue that the wedding cake baker should be forced to make that cake (even though he is a deeply-convicted fundamentalist christian and wedding cakes are purchased primarily for artistic value — if not you’d buy your wedding cake at WalMart, right?) then tell me why I can’t force the Jewish restaurant to stock, cook and serve up my side of bacon or the Catholic Church to marry gay couples?
Is a Christian woodworker mandated to carve the Wicca saying into an ornate headboard, or the dedicated Steelers fan required by law to paint a Ravens mural on the ceiling? Could I be sued because I refuse to make a desk [due to my pride in my craftsmanship] from stupidly cheap CDX plywood and particleboard just because a gay couple proposed it?
Where is the line?
Epicurus
Dear Ms. O’Connor; you keep using this word ‘discrimination.’ I do not think this word means what you THINK* it means. I do hope you soon learn the real meaning of this word, when people with “discriminating tastes” in pizza fail to patronize your little shithole of bigotry and prejudice. You had better hope there are enough wingnuts willing to buy your crummy product and prevent you from bankruptcy. Because that would be the real “tragedy” in all this.
*Assumes facts not in evidence as to the real ability of this woman to use her pea brain.
g
@Calouste: Exactly
boatboy_srq
@Gavin: The line is between “we choose not to do business with you” and “we’re not going to do business with you, you f###ing f#ggot, and there’s nothing you can do about it.” THAT is what the IN/AR laws provide: an “out” for businesses who want to be deliberately nasty to people of whom they disapprove, with no effective legal recourse for anyone hurt by that. Anyone turned away, under these laws, either deals with the nastiness of the rejection, or faces potential bankruptcy pursuing a challenge in civil court (assuming the odds of winning are relatively low and that the loser in such an action is liable for court costs). It has nothing to do with whether the business prefers a certain subset of possible customers and everything to do with the business’ license to maliciously, publicly offend – in the name of “faith” and “purity” – without legal repercussions.
Halting this legislation does not, as you suggest “prevent bigotry”. What it does is protect the businesses – unrelated to the legislation and disinterested in any “religious liberties” afforded by it – who would be hurt by a statewide market reaction. We’re discussing state law and not corporate policy, and we’re allowing philosophical/spiritual qualities to obtain to a purely contractual entity that exists only on paper and solely for the protection of its investors. The sole-proprietor / SMB enterprises may be the most likely offenders in the illustrated instance but there is a frightening range of bad behaviors enabled by this legislation.
Suppose, for example, that a large corporate entity should decide that it’s “faith” demanded that workers not observe any Sabbath – and that as a result working 7 straight days would be acceptable. “Unions gave us the weekend” is an oversimplification, but “Business X took weekends away because [deity] said they could” is a real potential here.
Likewise, note the First Church of Cannabis filing, which is protected under IN’s law. Regardless of whether one thinks weed should be legal, is it acceptable to establish a faith whose tenets run directly contrary to state law in this case? What if a religion were formed specifically allowing something less generally acceptable and equally illegal? We haven’t seen any discussion of the unintended consequences yet, but it’s clearly defensible that currently-illegal behaviors could be exempted and condoned if the religious obligations required those behaviors as part of observance of the faith.
Before any of us start stacking up too many more straw men here, take a good look at the language of the backers of these bills. Nowhere do they discuss anything other than “Christian” values, “Christian” rights and “Christian” protections – and all from “homosexuals.” ACS had a very good commentary on it (H/T to [I forgot who brought this up first]). The language of the laws may sound fairly inoffensive – but the agitation to get these laws passed is highly partisan and not especially nuanced. We do not need to be in the business of enabling or validating such groups. If we think about this chain of events as striking down bigotry with laws (or lack thereof), then we completely miss the larger battle where otherwise-vanilla legislation is advanced with the express purpose of oppressing whole segments of society merely because Ick.
TooManyJens
@Gavin:
Nobody is forcing the baker to include wedding cakes among the products they sell, just as nobody is forcing the deli to serve bacon. If the deli did serve bacon for some reason, they couldn’t sell it to Christians but refuse to sell it to Jews. The same goes for bakers who want to sell certain of their products to some people but not others.
At least in part, it comes down to whether or not a person who bakes a cake that a couple serves at their wedding can really be said to be participating in the wedding in a meaningful way. I guess I can sort of understand those who say yes, but I’ve had a wedding and certainly didn’t see it that way. Hell, I never even met the woman who actually baked the cake; we arranged it through the caterer. It’s a service that’s very much appreciated, but it’s not participation, IMO.
The analogy to the Catholic Church marrying gay couples is way off-base for several reasons. I’ll elaborate if you want, but I’m not sure if anyone’s still reading this thread.
WaterGirl
@TooManyJens: I’m still reading it, but I think Gavin’s post might have been a hit and run.
muddy
@JPL: @TooManyJens: My niece had bbq for the rehearsal dinner, and they gave little jars of the bbq seasoning to take home. It was really nice.
pseudonymous in nc
@Another Holocene Human:
I’m serious. It feels a bit like nutpicking. And like I said in another comment, if ABC57 of South Bend had to drive 20 miles to a pizza place in a small town in the middle of fuck-all to find a quotable bigot, then one would assume that they drew a blank with photographers and caterers and cake-decorators within a 20 mile radius.
Anyway, everyone got to laugh at the dumb hicks and make #gayweddingpizza jokes and ABC57 got a year’s worth of hits in a day and nobody paid much attention to Mike Pence and the GOP leadership or look further into which lobbyists were pushing for the damn bill to be passed in the first place.
Eyes on the fucking prize.
PhoenixRising
@Botsplainer:
Addendum to your accurate statements re Yelp: You CAN paint over the Sharpie-marker wangs on your front window, you just have to pay Yelp for the paint…every month. And that’s their business model.
They’re a conspiracy that I think may be illegal in at least 3 states that have broad tortious interference statutes.
PhoenixRising
@pseudonymous in nc: Yup.
There are dumbass attention seeking bigots everywhere. The ones you want to watch are the sneaky bastards like Mike Pence.
Another Holocene Human
@shortstop: parental status SHOULD be a choice, but often is not
important to keep in mind
MemorysGofundme.com
@Germy Shoemangler:
Amen someone or the O’Conners should setup a fundme page I have my card ready….Funny how the radical side of the LGBT community and the liberal left are so quick to scream tolerance,live and let live.
Cliff in NH
WTF is wrong with these morons?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/owner-of-indiana-pizzeria-that-wont-cater-gay-weddings-tells-conservative-host-they-may-close-business/
Fucking bigots wonder why they are called bigots.
Fucking Money-grubbing scammers, exactly as predicted upthread.
WTF Bigot saying Bigotry is cool cause Christ said don’t be a fucking Bigot, if they persecute you for saying love your neighbor, you did nothing wrong.
Fucking Bigots.
Cliff in NH
@MemorysGofundme.com:
Bigot Fucking scammer go away.