Keep running against Obama, the guy that could beat any one of you mooks.
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) August 7, 2015
Jeb Lund, at the Guardian liveblog:
Fox News is bound to make a ton of money off this process, from people buying ads and scrabbling for facetime, and it seems almost as if they’re trying to divide and cut down each candidate to extend this process. The first questions for all the lower-tier candidates boiled down to: “Why should we believe that you are not irrelevant?” And here the first question was designed to undermine Donald Trump, the network’s favorite.
The first to Marco Rubio tried to get him to cut down Jeb Bush. The first for Jeb Bush tried to undermine him via his family. If this is a reality show, you could be forgiven for assuming it was being structured to prolong it.
The easy way to demean Trump right now is to say that he’s just nonsensically reciting the same talking points, but literally every other one of these guys is too. He’s running away from uncomfortable questions, but that’s the game plan, for everyone. The best response he’s gotten from the audience is just shrugging and punching forward. Even at Megyn Kelly.
This is what happens when you fetishize the “tough talking no-nonsense leader,” demonize the media and generally disregard women. You can’t impose your authority on a “leader” anymore. You can’t question or control him, because he can just say, “Screw you.”
That is the most entertaining debate, with the best moderation, I’ve ever seen.
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) August 7, 2015
"I put the question to you about God and the veterans" because it's time for a jingoism salad
— Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman) August 7, 2015
This is the same party that chooses to see Iran's political religious discourse as irrational and backward
— Ishaan Tharoor (@ishaantharoor) August 7, 2015
Also, dogwhistles amounting to sirens. How close a quote is this?:
Jeb Bush [closing statement]. “We’re at the verge at the greatest time alive.” Immigration is broken but could be an economic driver. Embrace the energy revolution. “We can restore America’s leadership in the world so that everybody has the chance to rise up. I humbly urge you to vote whenever you get the chance to vote.”…
… “Because we’re following the Bush tradition of keeping as many as possible of those non-Repub people from voting at all.”
Not mentioned in the #GOPdebate:
Voting rights
Climate change
Gun violence
Police shootings
Student debt
Inequality
— Rebecca Leber (@rebleber) August 7, 2015
Somebody asked me what we'd do if this debate turned out to be "restrained, thoughtful, and fact-based." Well, dodged that bullet.
— pastordan (@pastordan) August 7, 2015
Think the highlight of the night was "WE NEED BRAIN." pic.twitter.com/fJBhkYtNrK
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) August 7, 2015
Think of the saddest, most awkward date you've ever been on. The first Fox GOP debate was worse.
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) August 6, 2015
So, when does Mitt Romney announce?
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) August 7, 2015
The happiest person tonight is probably Hillary Clinton
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) August 7, 2015
Suzanne
I kind of like how Trump just told Rand Paul how much he sucked.
beltane
What drugs are Megan McArdle on? I think I need to take them.
BillinGlendaleCA
@beltane: Himalayan Bath Salts.
Omnes Omnibus
@beltane: Do not take the brown acid.
Goblue72
@beltane: I was thinking the same thing.
I guess it’s hard to think straight with a Koch in your mouth.
NotMax
Ain’t gonna happen, I know, but do wish the word debate wasn’t so constantly being diluted and demeaned. It was a Q&A forum, not a debate in any sense of that exercise.
When is FOX releasing the director’s cut? (I keed, I keed.)
NotMax
Feel that should mention that watched not a second of the Lie-O in Ohio, BTW.
RK
All of those guys and gal are basically interchangeable with the exception maybe of Paul (liberty blood tree death) Trump (carnival barker with an orange flavored cotton candy toupee) and Carson (WTF).
Betty Cracker
The media consensus seems to be that Aqua Man Rubio won. He’s my senator, so it’s hard for me to be objective about him since I know he’s an empty-headed ninny. But I didn’t see him distinguish himself.
Conventional wisdom also seems to be that Trump performed badly. It’s true his Jedi mind trick about his past opinions and business practices seemed to fall flat. (“These are not the single-payer funded, third-party bankrupt abortions you’re looking for.”) But I’m not ready to see that skunk leave that garden party, so I hope the conventional wisdom is wrong.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
I thought Trump came out pretty well. He is a venal swine, but somehow that seemed much more grounded in reality than the way the others were portraying themselves.
Morzer
@beltane:
A rare extract from The Donald’s expressed anal glands.
David Koch
Wow. Didn’t see the debate, but when you’ve lost GOP booster/Clinton stalker Maggie Haberman you’ve done bad.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: I agree, as I mentioned Trump didn’t whip it out and swing it around. That’s all he needed to do.
@Betty Cracker: I didn’t see that Rubio did himself any favors.
David Koch
FTW
Morzer
@Betty Cracker:
The media is doing its usual trick of desperately lunging for a “reasonable Republican” to fluff so that they can say that the Democrats deserve three pinocchios for describing the GOP as a bunch of ignorant, corrupt, racist, misogynist creeps hopped up on fake Jesus juice and a longing for Armageddon.
Tree With Water
@beltane: My guess is there is little short of nothing that McCardle won’t do to suck liberally from the tit of Rupert Murdoch (who does have a 3rd tit, by the way). That is, unless she already is a FOX employee, in which case she was sucking up for a bonus. I don’t keep track of those people.
David Koch
Gray Lady gives the nod to TRump (including 5 column photo)
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tree With Water:
I really don’t want to know how you know this.
wasabi gasp
Rubio always comes off like a creeper caught under the ugly lights trying desperately to convince the last drunk left to go home with him.
mike in dc
Trump won by basically being Trump. He may have faltered on a question or two, but on the basis for which he has base support, he helped himself, possibly a lot. If his numbers climb into the high 20s/low30s after this, look for the GOP to go into full-blown panic mode.
I can’t see any way this wasn’t bad for Jeb, Christie and Rand Paul. Not good for Carson or Huckabee either. If I had to pick 2 or 3 guys who maybe helped their campaigns tonight–Walker, Kasich, and Rubio. Cruz is basically screwed so long as the Donald is in the race.
RK
@Betty Cracker: Of the bit I saw Rubio did well. He seemed capable and he’s attractive with his youthful optimism and good looks, at least comparatively,
David Koch
On a happier note, coal is on it’s last leg:
wasabi gasp
Carson put too much lizard in his Chong impression.
Tree With Water
@BillinGlendaleCA: My mistake, and it was an honest mistake. I confused Trump with Crusty the Clown- as anyone can well understand happening- and momentarily attributed Crusty’s well known superfluous nipple to The Donald.
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Well, I’ve heard that Rick Perry has a … oopsie!… what was the third thing?
NotMax
@Morzer
Next time he’ll wear two or three pairs of glasses.
Redshift
A lot of grading on the curve going on. Rubio “won” because he didn’t embarrass himself, unlike most of his past chances for national attention. Kasich “won” because he had nowhere to go but up (and because he was pandering to the Village’s desire for a reasonable Republican to a degree that would almost put John McCain to shame.) Trump continued to be Trump (admit nothing, deny everything, make counter allegations.)
Jeb! didn’t look great and frequently sounded garbled. Carson seemed dazed and confused. The others didn’t tank, but they didn’t distinguish themselves either. So much so that in trying to name them, I keep coming up one short.
David Koch
Pew Poll: GOP ratings collapse to 23 year low (32-60) while Dems seen as positive (48-47) [See bottom of page 19]
Redshift
Oh, Scott Walker was the name I was missing. I hope Mr. Charisn’tma has that effect on lots of people.
Suzanne
I think Marco Rubio comes off SO FAKE. So unbelievably fake. Cruz is way dumber than I thought he would be. And oddly….I kinda liked Trump. Telling Rand Paul to his face that he was doing shitty was funny.
David Koch
MSNBC obtained Trump debate memo. Unused zinger Trump had for the waterboy:
It seems he picked this up from a DKos of all places.
hellslittlestangel
@BillinGlendaleCA: A LOT of people will be stealing that one.
David Koch
Hillary has a really good rapid response team on twitter:
https://twitter.com/TheBriefing2016
Anne Laurie
@BillinGlendaleCA: Pink Himalayan Bath Salts!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Anne Laurie: I knew I was missing something.
Mandalay
@Betty Cracker: Rubio actually did a major fuck-up: he asserted his opposition to abortion in the cases of in*est and r*pe. Bad enough in the eyes of the public, except he was also contradicting his previous position.
http://www.vox.com/2015/8/7/9114741/rubio-abortion-fox-debate-kelly
I thought Rubio was mediocre to awful. He was clearly reciting lines he had just memorized all the time, he spewed platitudes about the 21st century (in 2015???) and the American Dream, and the abortion comment will come back to haunt him.
Rubio is as dumb as a box of rocks, and is incapable of thinking on his feet. He’ll get found out and skewered before too long.
BillinGlendaleCA
I’m still pissed off about the “ding” that they used to show that they were going over their allotted time. Drove my cocker crazy.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mandalay: Well, he won because he was properly hydrated for the evening.
piratedan
only thing missing from the GOP debate was a lone wolf, mentally challenged gunman with a suicide by cop death wish who felt that the GOP needed to take a stand with harsher immigration policy and seeking clarity on free range grazing rights…. Then we could have seen which of the “debate” moderators were packing…
wasabi gasp
Rubio’s near-whine delivery often seems to be on the verge of an octave jump. He’s stressed to impress.
There was a moment in the show when Rubio looked parched and I found myself rooting for the bottled water. Poland spings eternal.
Mandalay
@BillinGlendaleCA: Right. And he didn’t break out in a sweat, and he didn’t piss his pants, and he didn’t ask for his mommy at all. So I guess he had a good evening by his standards. But the bar for Mr. Dumbass is set so low a cockroach couldn’t crawl under it.
Tree With Water
@Redshift: “Jeb! didn’t look great and frequently sounded garbled”
Remember what a relief it was to hear Bill Clinton speak proper english in articulate fashion after assuming office in 1993?* I do. I remember that after four years of listening to a bad Dana Carvey impersonator, it was truly pleasant to hear a president express himself in coherent fashion. All the boys in the Bush clan are mushed mouthed, and Jeb! appears to be the worst offender of the three- something I would not have thought possible after 8 years of listening to his evil idiot brother.
*(indeed as it was hearing Obama first speak as POTUS in 2009).
Mandalay
Christie was another busted flush. He kept looking down to read his notes during his 30 second speech at the end. Another dumbfuck papering over the cracks with his bigmouth-tough-guy-bully shtick, which is getting really old.
I haven’t seen his numbers but if most American women aren’t repulsed by his manner I’m baffled.
Sloegin
God, For a second I thought that McArglebargle tweet was dangerously in Poe territory, but then I remembered. McMeg.
Villago Delenda Est
Megan McArdle really is a vile bitch.
Villago Delenda Est
Oh, and Cruz sounds like he used to do voice work for Animaniacs.
NotMax
@TGree With Water
There’s also Neil and Marvin, and on the distaff side there’s Dorothy.
Valdivia
@Betty Cracker: I was not surprised to see people in the media coming to that conclusion since they have been trying to make him ‘happen’ for a long time. Unfortunately for them the id of the GOP disagrees(Drudge poll): Drudge has him in fourth place barely tied with Rand. The other media favorite, Kasich, was way way in the back.
I really do not understand all the liberals who think Rubio is some kind of superstar. Just don’t see it.
ETA: Cruz came second in the Drudge poll I thought he was awful too but apparently he helped himself last night. Incredibly enough!
NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Pretty close.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
I do not think Rubio did anything to distinguish himself from the pack.
I cannot remember anything he said, unlike say Kasich who I learned is the son of a mailman.
If pressed, I think Walker’s foreign policy of antagonizing Russia, invading Iran, etc will hurt him. But I am unfortunately pegging this hope on follow up questions from the media.
John Ellis did not come off well he seemed flummoxed on questions about his flip-flopping on issues and questionable associations, such as serving on the board of Bloomberg’s charitable foundation.
One thing I wish is all these fucking governors, who came in as Obama pushed the country into recovery mode, need to be called out about how they really have not been better than their predecessors. They just ended up on the right side of a recovery, unlike their predecessors who were on the wrong side of the Great Recession in 2008 and 2008.
BillinGlendaleCA
@gene108:
You noticed that too, both Christie and Walker talked about that.
Elaine Benes
I made myself feel better after watching Jon’s goodbye show by moseying over to Megyn Kelly’s FB page. 5,000 angry posts from Trump fans calling her a whore, a democrat. That she belonged on MSNBC, LOL.
Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving person.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Betty Cracker: I would like to know how Rubio paid off $100,000 in student loans in four years.
Keith G
Good morning. Did something happen last night?
Keith G
I am moving this next door
Zinsky
What an unimpressive field of candidates! How many did you think looked “presidential”? Me neither. Truly an NCAA field of candidates (no class at all)!
hoodie
That was like a pre-audition for America’s Got Talent! with no one making the cut. The GOP would be better off nominating Megyn Kelly or Brett Bair. Trump wins by default because he’s already got his reality show cred, he was like Bayern Munich playing an exhibition with a third tier NASL squad, mostly bored except for annoyance about some overly aggressive play by some wannabe. Bush was godawful, can see him tanking quickly.
Bobby Thomson
@Mandalay:
?? You do realize which party’s nomination he’s running for? That’s a feature, not a bug.
Althea
It is not true that police shootings were not addressed. The matter was put before Bush but he bungled it badly, like everything else.
Althea
Scott Walker doesn’t look like a particularly healthy guy. All pale and mushroom-like, like he hasn’t seen the sun for years and years.
Althea
@Villago Delenda Est: His voice is right up there with Santorum for the old “nails across a chalkboard” effect.
AMinNC
The candidates were troubling on a number of fronts, but I found myself almost equally disturbed by the Foxification of the “debate” itself. Cutting away to commercials like a TV timeout in a sporting event? WTF?
Megyn Kelly dressed and made-up like she was going to a cocktail party rather than a professional news event? Along with her “entertainment biz” running patter in between questions and answers, not to mention the ridiculous “God and Vets” line of questioning? She came off as a total lightweight to me. And a jumped-up one at that.
Chris Wallace and the one who looks like a squashed-faced muppet both seemed to like the sound of their questions better than any of the candidates’ answers, which is not saying much, I’ll grant you. Mike Wallace must be spinning.
RaflW
@beltane: I can’t speak to the moderation of the debate, since I didn’t watch it. But McArdle is probably quite correct, that as entertainment, last night’s very special even did excel. She, of course, is immune to noticing how problematic that is.
RaflW
@Althea: I loved this little moment described by the Guardian liveblog
Jeffro
So, strictly based upon appearances, being able to give coherent answers, not sounding like complete a$$es, etc, here is how I would score each of these clowns on a 10-point scale:
Walker: 7…he answered coherently, towed the party line(s), got his to trumpet his “won 3 elections in 4 years”, etc
Rubio: 7.5…oh the soft bigotry of low expectations here…coherent, positive, stuck to his ‘new vs. old’ theme
Bush: 5…glad he finally figured out that the Iraq War needn’t have been fought, but doesn’t project any sort of stature or impression as the guy to beat
Trump: 3…I think seeing him next to several actual candidates makes him less necessary: half of those guys are just as belligerent, and they can spell out actual policy positions (wrong though they are) I think his support’s going to start trickling steadily downward through the fall and he’ll be out before Thanksgiving
Christie: 4…unimpressive, belligerent, still seen (thanks Rand!) as a moderate Obama-hugger. He’ll be out pretty soon as I believe he has no sugar daddy and his supporters have plenty of other options
Paul: 2…the weird, argumentative one…who could possibly have seen this performance and been won over by him? Wrap a chain around both him and Christie, they’re done
Kaisch: 9.9…jeez, could Fox have given this guy any more love? The (air quote) “moderate”, the new McCain.
Carson: 3…several candidates are just as religious, so as the glow fades, I think his support trickles over to Cruz, Rubio, and Walker.
Cruz: 4…wow was he bad…hard to stand out as Mr. uber-Demagogue when you only get the mic for a minute at a time. I think his voice and demeanor will have most thinking, “I’d really rather hear most of the same stuff from Rubio and Walker” (which really is saying something, if you think about it)
Huckabee: 3…good ol’ crazy Mike! Fire and brimstone and not much else here. No real reason for him to be in this race since several others are far-right enough to be against abortion even in the case of r*pe or inc*st.
So…Kaisch, Rubio, and Walker did themselves some good, and a few others demonstrated there is no point at all in them going on. Two last thoughts:
1) This was pretty friendly stuff between a huge crowd of candidates – it certainly made it hard for a given candidate to take a real shot at any other (Paul, Christie, and Trump notwithstanding). Once they get down to the ‘final four’, though, it will be extremely interesting to see how they choose to rip into each other.
2) About that ‘final four’…I am trying to keep in mind that several of them have major, major $$$ (either from their super PACs, their sugar daddies, or both) and so poll numbers are not really the whole measure (maybe not even the main measure) of their support and ability to compete come Iowa and New Hampshire time. We’ll see.
SiubhanDuinne
@wasabi gasp:
Bravo!