There’s a Super Moon and a lunar eclipse tonight. It should make for pretty skywatching. You can find details HERE.
I went to Salt Lake Comic Con on Friday and Saturday. A good time was had by all. Here in SLC, the Comic Con ran Thursday-Saturday. There’s not a lot going on Sundays here. I think I’ll drive up in the mountains later and look at the leaves changing.
My new job is going well for the most part. It’s a small facility, but I also support entomologists and naturalists deployed to various places around Utah, southern Idaho, western Colorado, and eastern Nevada, so I’m driving a lot.
I saw a thing on CNN this morning about Boehner’s retirement from Congress. All the talking heads were going on about how it’s a sure sign of “the dysfunction in Washington.” They were wrong, of course. It’s a sign of the dysfunction in the Republican party. The Democrats are doing just fine, thank you very much. But our media is so cowed by the right wing, and in many instances controlled by them, that there has to be some way the Democrats are at fault. It’s been like this for most of my life, and I don’t expect it to change anytime soon.
Dana Milbank at the WaPo has an editorial up about Carly Fiorina, the Flavor of the Week. The media is never better at self reflection than when they’re sniping at each other.
Also, Berkley Brethed has hit upon one of the signal issues of our time.
GO Broncos! Beat the Lions!
Matt McIrvin
The “supermoon” aspect is silly: the Moon’s orbit is close enough to a circle that the difference between a supermoon and any other kind of full moon is minuscule. You wouldn’t notice it if somebody didn’t tell you, and the variations in perceived bigness of the moon are mostly down to perceptual illusions that have nothing to do with variations in its optical angular size (and are slightly mysterious in themselves).
That said, this lunar eclipse promises to be a good one to watch just because it’s happening at a civilized hour for North Americans. It’s supposed to start clouding up here tonight, and I’m hoping we get enough clear sky to at least see part of it.
Mack
At least you’re driving alot in some of the prettiest places in the U.S. Enjoy.
My experience tells me the Dems will, once again, fail to capitalize on the opponents disarray. T’was ever thus.
Amir Khalid
Great to see you back.
debbie
I love that the embedded video in the linked artile of Fiorina’s “standout” moments is less than 3 minutes long. What more do you need to know?
Jerzy Russian
@Matt McIrvin: I saw an image once that had the sun and moon next to each other at the same angular scale. The left half of each image has each object at pericenter, and the right side of each is at apocenter. When displayed this way, the angular size changes are actually quite obvious. I agree that you would not notice just by looking.
Another thing many people overlook: the angular size of the moon is a bit larger at moonrise compared to the angular size when it is at the meridian on the same night.
Poro Rosso
Big Cottonwood Canyon? Little Cottonwood Canyon? Millcreek Canyon?
I do miss the canyons near Holladay Ut.
There’s some good cross country skiing up there in the winter.
Heck, I used to even Telemark at Alta sometimes.
Jerzy Russian
@soonergrunt: Nice to see you back. The other front pagers are slacking off at their unpaid jobs, so it looks like it is up to you to pick up the slack.
I like driving in Utah. Have you made it to any of the national parks there?
Matt McIrvin
@Jerzy Russian:
That’s backwards, isn’t it? The angular size is smaller at moonrise. It looks bigger, though; that’s the famous perceptual moon illusion that psychologists like to argue about.
raven
For those of you who missed it, here’s the entire Southern University “Human Juke Box” halftime show from yesterday! Wait for the golden bikinis and the whip/ nae nae!
raven
No moon for us!
SteveinSC
For those still retaining some high school French, http://www.lepoint.fr/monde/tests-manipules-volkswagen-aurait-ete-averti-il-y-a-des-annees-27-09-2015-1968480_24.php is breaking some news that Bosch told VW in 2007 that what they were putting in the cars was illegal and that in 2011 an employee of VW told management told them again. Not only that VW’s may be prohibited from the Autobahns (well, not really, I bet.) This puts VW at risk of collapse as a car company, or at least a bailout by the Bundes Regierung.
So while poor Greece has been humiliated in bowing to the German demands, they should have taken the VW route to financial stability: Cheat.
Tommy
I often note my parents (well just my dad at this point) are moderate Republicans. They are in town for the week and out shopping my phone went crazy when Boehner resigned. I mentioned this to my father as it was happening and he was like, “one of the last good ones gone I guess, they just drove him out.”
I at this point noted to him maybe he ought to think about why he votes Republican. I have done this many, many times in the past. I don’t push. You don’t push my father to do anything. But I think maybe for one of the first times he got my point.
Jerzy Russian
@Matt McIrvin: You are correct of course. I had it bass-ackwards. The moon is slightly closer to the Earth-based observer when it crosses the meridian, compared to rising or setting. I clearly need some coffee or some more sleep, or something.
Hal
I think I have officially lost my love for the food network and and the cooking channel. Every show now is a celebrity cooking show, or some type of competition show. They just aren’t making instructional cooking shows any longer.
I don’t want to see Valerie Bertinelli or someone’s lame ass kids, and how many damn shows feature Bobby Flay? And the sob stories on Chopped. “Why do you want to win chopped? Well *starts crying* ever since 9/11…” You want 10 grand asshole. Just admit it.
satby
@Hal: best thing I ever did media-wise was cut the cord and go fully to streaming. I miss none of the idiocy, only TCM. And not really enough to ever go back.
Arm The Homeless
Where is my countdown to Furlough-geddon on CNN? Have we officially capitulated to the idea of regular shutdowns?
Who had September of 2015 in the pool?
Perhaps the Poutine Line wasn’t Scott Walker’s worst idea ever. At least not from the Canadians’ perspective.
satby
Sooner, good to see you and glad the new job is working out.
Tommy
@satby: Same here. On my Roku there is a lifetime of cooking shows, indie, that teach you to cook. So many in fact I moved one of my TVs to my kitchen just to watch it on a screen larger than my tablet.
MattF
@Matt McIrvin: There was a lunar eclipse about ten years ago that was visible from my front door. I had some fun explaining to the assembled multitudes that the moon was being eaten by a dragon, and then, um, excreted.
Gimlet
Pope John LXVI (repost)
By John Podhoretz
The pope endorsed the Iran deal, the UN’s environmentalist goals and what amounts to a worldwide open-borders policy on refugees — and offered a very specific view of how to promote development in the Third World that’s straight out of a left-wing textbook.
“The International Financial Agencies,” the pope said, “should care for the sustainable development of countries and should ensure that they are not subjected to oppressive lending systems which, far from promoting progress, subject people to mechanisms which generate greater poverty, exclusion and dependence.”
We’re told we must not view the pope’s expression of views on contemporary subjects through the lens of day-to-day issues — that we belittle him and ourselves by examining his words through an ideological filter.
Because of the awesome position he holds, and by dint of his own teachings and his life and teachings before he rose to service as the Vicar of Christ, Francis is said to be deeper and loftier than mere politics.
Sorry: When the pontiff sounds less like a theological leader and more like the 8 p.m. host on MSNBC or the editor of Mother Jones, what’s a guy to do?
Pope Francis is entirely within his rights to become the world’s foremost liberal. But, since that’s what he is, it can’t be wrong to say so.
Another Holocene Human
@Jerzy Russian: Overlook? It has its own wiki entry (and plenty more google results where that came from):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion
sparrow
@Hal: I saw all TV going in this direction years ago and haven’t missed it in the 10 years I haven’t watched it! I’m not getting on my high horse, I watch plenty of things online, but “reality TV” always and will suck ass.
geg6
Good to see you, Sooner. As to the Boehner situation opening the eyes of the last sane Republicans, my BIL considers himself to be one of those and he is just appalled. He’s the only Republican in the family and, based on his anger at the nut allergy, that may be about to end. His disdain for Trump and Fiorina and his contempt for Jeb! and Rubio for their pandering to the nativists and neocons has him saying things like maybe Hillary would be a better choice.
Amir Khalid
I am not Catholic, obviously. But doesn’t the thinking behind this Congressman’s strange act amount to idolatry?
MattF
@Gimlet: Pretty soon, people will be asking non-ironically if the Pope is Catholic.
shell
@Hal: And ten-hour marathons of ‘Diners, Drive-ins…’ every other day. What the hell?
About the only cooking show I still like is ‘My Grandmothers Ravioli’ on the Cooking channel.
Speaking of food, Im still reeling from the pic of that chocolate cake a few posts down.
Another Holocene Human
@Gimlet: I guess in their minds if they reduce moral calls to action to mere politics then they can trivialize the whole thing, both sides do it, reasonable people can disagree, etc.
Of course political positions and political actions have moral import. And they belong to a political doomsday cult that absolutely conflicts with orthodox Christianity (as well as the mainstream of most major American religions). It even conflicts with what Evangelicals in the US say they believe, so this relationship must be stitched together with cherry picking and deliberate lying.
What is meant by “John 66”?
MattF
@Amir Khalid: It’s odd, but I’d be reluctant to ascribe it to a specific heresy.
geg6
@Amir Khalid:
Your lack of knowledge is showing. Catholics are all about the idolatry. Statues of saints are prayed to. Old bones are venerated if someone official says they are from a saint or, best of all, the Holy Family. Catholics looooooove their idols.
Jerzy Russian
@Another Holocene Human: As noted above by Matt McIrvin, I had the change in the angular size from moon rise to meridian crossing reversed.
Speaking of the moon rising and setting, I once saw a lunar eclipse where the totality happened just before sunrise (e.g. when the moon was setting). The sky background was getting brighter, and the moon was getting dimmer. The moon actually disappeared before it set.
Gimlet
@Gimlet:
Pope Francis is entirely within his rights to become the world’s foremost liberal. But, since that’s what he is, it can’t be wrong to say so.
What if God has “spoken” to Francis and it’s His word? Then it’s not just another liberal pundit’s figuring, but the word of an authority that MUST be obeyed or you roast for eternity.
Another Holocene Human
@shell: You should try that summer salad. There is an Eastern European version called “Schopska” that dates to the Cold War era when folks from around the Empire, er, free association of Soviets, would descend on Bulgaria for vacation.
You can make it with umpteen different colors of peppers and some tomatoes for the acid, add a little red onion and feta for flavor. Olive oil and salt. Popular at parties. Hard to get those white flesh peppers in the US, though.
Gimlet
@Another Holocene Human:
Should have been “666”
Chris
@Gimlet:
Liberals are pro-life and anti-gay marriage?
TaMara (BHF)
@Hal: If you can get it, Create, one of the PBS digital spinoffs has great, non-competition cooking shows from great chefs who just talk to you and walk you through some terrific recipes.
Gimlet
@Chris:
Sometimes a Venn diagram subset leaves out a few positions.
Tommy
@geg6:
As I said in another comment my father is the last Republican in my family. Mom went to Obama, her first non-Republican vote in her lifetime, and she isn’t looking back.
Dad was in town and I broke the news to him face-to-face and he seemed openly upset a little. Say what you will about Boehner, pick 100 topics and I will most likely disagree with him on 99 of them. But as Obama said in his statement, the man never lied to me. I always felt he was like my dad in many ways. We might disagree but we could do so in an honest and mature way.
Pretty much the rest of the Republican party none of those things these days. I don’t know what my father is going to do at this point.
Another Holocene Human
@Amir Khalid: Ha, that reminds me of that weird medieval notion that Rabbis gave off “sparks”. Although to be fair, it was really the Catholics who came up with that shit to begin with.
If you ask Catholic officials straight up they will tell you that is superstition. However, it is a far cry from what is considered idolatry.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
This piece by Rattner could serve as the basis for lethal ads against Florina, I’ve always thought she was poison on a national ticket, and bought into the idea that this is a stunt to build her name ID and fundraising lists and collect chits for an eventual Senate run– she gets her mail in VA these days, I think. This paragraph alone should be the end of that ambition
also
scary voice over: Five corporate jets, 30,000 jobs lost…
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/opinion/carly-fiorina-really-was-that-bad.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=1
geg6
@Another Holocene Human:
Catholics only call it idolatry when it’s other peoples’ idols. But if any religion could be the poster child for idolatry, it would be Catholicism.
jl
Soonergrunt got a new job and relocated? Sounds interesting.
I didn’t see Millbank piece say much about Fiorina’s big breakthrough in the bald face lying and pandering department at debate 2. Can’t be the flavor of the month if you don’t have some of the approved GOP primary voter base flavor crystals.
Another Holocene Human
One RWer was ranting that the Pope’s only job was to get souls into heaven. (So he should shutupshutupshutup about climate change.)
Here’s the problem, Catholics believe you can’t get into heaven without faith AND works. It’s the Pope’s friggin’ job to tell you what those works are. Look, times change, that’s why Christ left a vicar behind instead of saying “Yo, this is good for all time, even if you invent a better mousetrap. No changing shit.” Seriously, he didn’t say that. Instead, he told Peter he was delegating authority to forbid and allow stuff. And then Peter pretty early on decides that he’s had enough with gentile and Jewish converts feuding and says you don’t have to keep kosher.
Are the Pope’s critics keeping kosher?
So they accept the authority of Peter?
Huh.
PS: but because the Bible contradicts itself, Jesus also says that he is not going to change one “jot or tittle” of the Law, despite advising that you could break it in certain circumstances, and despite the fact that Christians stopped keeping kosher and never looked back
Oatler.
@shell: Waiting for “Cupcake Wars, “Food Truck Wars” and “Cake Boss”to get bloody and violent. As for PBS cooking shows, even they are shortened by six or seven minutes to allow for commercials. And they are fucking commercials, not “underwriting”.
Baud
@geg6:
@Tommy:
Better late than never, but let’s see if it holds when the general election rolls around.
jl
@geg6: I read that the RC church as over 10,000 saints. That what you mean?
satby
@Amir Khalid: No, just nutty. I’m a recovering Catholic.
MattF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I imagine that, based on past performance, she’ll just deny it. Right now, she’s the not-Trump, and that’s what matters to the R establishment.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gimlet (repost):
Gimlet, I implore you. Please please PLEASE provide links. The pieces you quote are often very interesting, but it is beyond frustrating not to be given the source and a link for the full read.
I know I have (politely, I think) asked you for links on at least three occasions. Several others have asked as well. If you are going to share information from other publications, it is conventional courtesy to provide a link to the source.
Please.
Tommy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I worked with her, never met her face-to-face, while she was an SVP at Lucent (before she became CEO of HP). I heard her on a conference call in like 1995 say the “Internet is a fad” and she directed resources away from product development.
Let me say that again, the “Internet is a fad.” Lucent as their tagline said, “we make the things that make communications work.” They should have “owned” the data/Internet marketplace. Never gave the likes of Cisco a chance, but you know the Internet is a fad.
The lady could not think her way out of a wet paper bag.
satby
@geg6: The saints the statues symbolize, not the saints themselves. Though the old bones are supposed to be the saints remains. And the saints are prayed to to represent the supplicant to God.
RepubAnon
If the insects attack, make sure the folks in your lab know the difference between Etymology Man and Entomology Man http://www.xkcd.com/1012/. Calling the wrong superhero can be annoying when under assault by mutated preying mantis hordes
Morzer
@Amir Khalid:
No. The theological defense is the same as the one deployed for icons: revering the icon of a saint as part of e.g a request for a saint’s intercession is not the same thing as worshiping the image itself.
Morzer
@SiubhanDuinne:
In Gimlet’s defense, I have noticed recently that sometimes attempting to link to an article seems to lead to the comment vanishing into another dimension entirely.
Another Holocene Human
@geg6: Idolatry is worshiping some thing in your life more than God. For example money, sometimes styled Mammon. Or loving yourself too much.
Protestants call veneration of the saints idolatry, and there’s the germ of a valid argument in there, but it’s usually stated in a way that totally misunderstands what Catholics are about. If I light a votive candle for my grandmother, am I worshiping her? If I make a stop off to see the remains of Pope John XXIII, someone I admire a great deal, am I worshiping him? Catholics believe in the communion of saints. It’s like being able to email anybody who ever lived a holy life. You then ask them for intercession on your behalf because God will take your petition (this is the term, google it) more kindly coming from them than from your humble, sinner self. Now, does this betray a bit of a medieval mindset? Sure!
The Orthodox Church, however, does have an interesting and storied history with iconoclasm.
Matt McIrvin
@Jerzy Russian: I remember one lunar eclipse where there was more dust in the Earth’s atmosphere than usual, because of some recent volcanic eruption, I think, and the Moon actually came close to disappearing rather than just turning red. It was a dramatic illustration of what’s going on.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The 51.3 percent majority in favor of the disastrous merger does follow Rovian political principles. Get a bare majority and RULE! Fiorina is the leader for the GOP future that always was, since St. Rove came on the scene.
shell
@Oatler.: I do love the Great British Bakeoff. And for those who are TV-less, its streamable at the PBS video site.
Baud
@Another Holocene Human:
Such as the Catholic Church, which is what a lot of Protestants and nondenominational Christians believed.
Morzer
@Another Holocene Human:
The Iconoclast controversy arose when the Catholic church had not yet gone into schism from the Orthodox, and the theology of intercession you have just stated was fully developed as part of the iconophile defense of icons against the iconoclasts, mainly by John of Damascus, who is still acknowledged by Catholics as a Doctor of the Church.
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: That’s convenient to say when you’re sitting home safe in England while my ancestors are being coerced to convert.
Whatever.
Another Holocene Human
@Morzer: My point was that destroying icons wasn’t much of a thing in the West until later, but for some reason the good people of Constantinople were really keen on the whole thing.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Holocene Human: Yeah, but I always figured that the Biblical rules against idolatry really amounted to the same thing as Protestants picking on Catholics: you want to denigrate those people over there who worship Baal, and keep your own folks from switching over to Baal-worship, so you point to the statue in the Temple of Baal and characterize them as people who worship a golden statue instead of a god. Our God can beat a golden statue any day!
Baud
@Another Holocene Human:
Huh? My comment was purely descriptive. I’m not sure what you’re reading into it.
Tommy
@Baud: No clue what dad will do but mom isn’t changing. Should have come to our side many, many years ago. She is a strong woman and thinks if a lady wants an abortion she should be able to get one, even if she is against the concept for anybody in our family.
But that isn’t her #1 issue. Her #1 issue is a combo of equal pay and violence against women. Long story short I found out, at her father’s funeral (just a few years ago) she had been married before my father. News to me. Found out he raped and beat her. She doesn’t know my brother and I know this. Dad said never to mention it to her, EVER. NEVER!
But makes even more sense that no matter where I lived as a child and to this day my mother always both gave money (even when we didn’t have much of anything to give) and her time to rape crisis centers for women in need.
The Republicans like to think there isn’t a “war on women.” But the last few election cycles that is how my mother felt.
Another Holocene Human
Now I’m angry. My grandmother, in the year before she died, was spewing out reasons why she could never be Protestant. Horrible, horrible stories.
Her parish priest had stolen a bunch of money from the parish and run off. The bishop was refusing to forgive a loan from the diocese, leaving them in the lurch. The Episcopalian Church across the street had a female pastor and seemingly a lot less drama. So why the “no–no–a thousand times no”?
Because YOU tried to obliterate US. Getting rid of the Church was part of getting rid of one of the few remaining structures of resistance. Why do we “love” the church so much? Because we love ourselves, not hate ourselves, as you would have it. Because we had the will to survive. Because we defied your genocide and we will continue to defy it as long as some of us are left to draw breath.
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: Political statements are always neutral to the privileged.
Seriously, I’ve been in every denom of church. All of them give their fucking money to the pastor. All of them bow their heads and mouth repeated words. What’s the fucking difference? Why would you say something so offensive?
No, we “love” the church because we stubbornly refuse to leave it, despite the worship bans and the “people of the soup” and the bars to employment and all the other depredations that were visited upon us.
Baud
@Another Holocene Human:
Got it. We’re privileged if we acccutely talk about history.
C’mon.
rikyrah
So happy to hear from you. Glad to know that you are settled into your new job.
Another Holocene Human
@Matt McIrvin: The more thoughtful theologians perceived a problem with people only being able to worship with something concrete in front of them, whereas God is supposed to be a spirit. OTOH, knowing this proclivity, bishops have made it their policy to fill churches with as many paintings, statues, and bones of dubious provenance as possible.
The OTHER reason for paintings/statues/stained glass is that a lot of the congregation over the centuries couldn’t read! Literacy took a jump in the modern era. But those old churches were full of allegorical messages that you could read from symbols and objects. Stories about mortality. Stories about virtue. Reminders about what kind of place it was and who was worshiped here.
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: Talking accurately about history = offensive statements about Catholics.
Okay. I think we’re done.
Baud
@Another Holocene Human:
If you equate those two things, then I guess we are done.
schrodinger's cat
@MattF: Conservative loony Catholics already are.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Bubba goes a’trollin’.….
Flattering the buffoon, even with just a headline and a trolly talking point, is a good way to get him to take it easy on HRC, at least a good effort
MattF
@Another Holocene Human: Many years ago, when I was in Minnesota, a friend of mine was dating the daughter of a Lutheran minister. He gave a vivid description of her large, beautiful home. I blinked, and said “…and all it takes is faith.” He gaped at me for a moment and then changed the subject. Later, my friend said that he told the minister about my remark and said the minister laughed, thought it was pretty funny.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: How about two kind of happy (or maybe sad) religious stories from my family since so many today seem not to be so happy.
My family is Methodist. In the town my parents live in, well we’ve lived there since like 1872 when we came to the US from Scotland. My family literally built the Methodist church. My parents go to church more out of habit then they are super religious. We had an openly gay family member move back to the town from San Fran. She went to church with my parents and her and her partner were shunned. My dad gave them the middle finger and said no more checks for you ….
Across town the other side of my family is Catholic. Spent a fair amount of time in that church because of weddings and funerals. The Priest is a total stud and I say that as an atheist. Not for a single second, and he knows what I think, has he not been totally cool with me.
This is years ago but he changed around the Liturgy. He felt it needed a tweak here or there because no younger people were coming to Mass. Somebody with too much time on their hands recorded it and sent it to the Bishop. He was told to say he was sorry and change it back.
He sad no and they fired him. I should note he worked for free, as a military vet with benefits. Hundreds if not thousands came out to support him because, now imagine this, he promoted not his faith as much as caring to those in need. Those less fortunate.
Davis X. Machina
@schrodinger’s cat: Have been, for years. Hasn’t been a valid pope since 1958.
Sedevacatism.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Holocene Human: @Another Holocene Human: WTF?
Baud
@Davis X. Machina:
The establishment is legitimate only when conservatives control it. It’s a universal rule.
RaflW
I’m visiting relatives this weekend so I was reading the Kansas City Star. Local Op-Ed columnist this morning had a headline about the “Loss of the Middle in Congress” and then I read it and it was 95% about the GOP. He tossed in one Democratic governor elected in presidential years in a blue state, but everything else was about Republicans. The whole piece. Yet the framing was about the evaporating middle. So wrong, so often!
ETA: Going to the final home game of the season for the Royals. I’m not a big baseball fan, but the family are sports-nuts. The weather is great, I hear their revamped stadium is nice, we’re in the 4th row behind the 3rd base dugout. Should be fun even though the Royals are resting many of their starters.
Tommy
Can I ask what might be a stupid question, but I know people here know a lot of shit I don’t.
I was raised Methodist and the Catholic church is a little foreign to me. My mother’s side of the family is Catholic and as a kid when we’d go to Mass there I was totally confused at what was going on.
I thought the Pope was the singular voice of the Catholic church. Ordained by God. What the Pope says kind of goes without question because it is the word and will of God. He kind of has that pipeline to God thing working.
This is where I am confused that Republican Catholics seem to want to debate him or disagree. I wasn’t aware things were up for debate as far as what the Pope says. You might disagree, but you just fall inline.
Am I missing something here? Feel like I am.
Walker
That Bloom County joke is in reference to a style guidebook written the same year that Bloom County went on hiatus. Does this mean that we should be expecting more jokes from 1989?
henqiguai
@Tommy(#80): Tommy, I think what you’re missing is the American concept of the ‘cafeteria Catholic’. Hence, estimates of upwards of 95% of American Catholics use barrier or chemical contraceptive methods — ’cause sex ain’t *always* about procreation.
RaflW
@Gimlet: Conservatives loved them some Pope John Paul II, and swooned for hardline Benedict. So they don’t like Pope Francis? Boo hoo.
PaulW
Go BUCS. Try not to embarrass Tampa too much.
dedc79
Let’s go Mets! Was great to see the long-suffering David Wright put the icing on the cake with a 3-run homerun in the 9th.
And, speaking of the long-suffering, the Cubs are in too (at least for a game).
sacrablue
I got a robocall from Fiorina yesterday. She is desperate for attention and she sounds like an arrogant bitch. Now she has hooked up with some group that is trying to get a parental notification law as a ballot initiative. There are no registered republicans in my house, so I don’t know why they wasted a phone call on me.
magurakurin
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe it’s some sort of Irish thing? Not sure who “we” is or where the “where” of the story is. More detail is needed for sure…
geg6
@jl:
No, it means people could buy a statue of any of those 10,000 saints, pray to it every day and not be considered an isolator.
Chris
@RaflW:
There are three foundational and completely irreconcilable beliefs held by the pundits and other professional centrists;
1) Only moderate, centrist, and bipartisan governance is legitimate.
2) Only Republican politicians can legitimately represent the country.
3) But Republicans have no responsibility to be moderate, centrist, and bipartisan. Any failure to meet those goals can only be blamed on the Democrats.
As in Washington DC, so in Kansas City, apparently.
Cervantes
Unbeknownst to Dana Milbank, and quite unlike Mitt Romney, “plain vanilla” can be delicious, indeed.
Corner Stone
@magurakurin: Or less. Much, much less.
RaflW
@shell: Our PBS station still has cooking shows that are actually about cooking. Check local listings, as they say. Free* and over the air, even!
My father in law subscribes to America’s Test Kitchen to watch streaming episodes – he actually cooks along on some of them, pausing as needed!
*(Might I gently suggest a small donation if you find the shows worthwhile? I’m not a PTV employee or anything, but I am a contributor.)
geg6
@satby:
I understand the rationale. I grew up in a very Catholic household. I know all about it. I also know that, by any definition other than that of the Catholic Church, much of Catholicism is based on idolatry.
Mike in NC
@Tommy: When Catholic Republicans agree with something the pope says or does, then he’s infallible. But if the pope says or does something they disagree with, then he’s a dick.
schrodinger's cat
@magurakurin: The blood feud between Catholics and Protestants and Sunni and Shia would be comical if it weren’t so bloody. To an outsider the differences seem minor. At least, religious divide is more understandable when it is between adherents of two different religions like for example, Hindus and Muslims or Jews and Christians.
srv
What a magnanimous guy:
JPL
@jl: The Washington Post has several articles about her lies. This is another opinion piece. link
She was on Meet the Press and dared people to challenge her on Planned Parenthood. She will not be corrected during the debate because it will seem, as though those that do, defend Planned Parenthood.
mattH
@Poro Rosso: American Fork would be my suggestion. Lots and lots of trees, and Cascade Springs is a short stroll. Not to mention the drive past Sundance and down Provo Canyon is nice.
Baud
@Chris:
Well said.
gene108
@geg6:
Hinduism would like to have a word with you
geg6
@geg6:
Fucking autocorrect. That should say idolator.
Tommy
@Mike in NC: You hit on my point in a sentence better than I did in a far longer manner. I didn’t think you were really allowed to disagree with the Pope if you are a Catholic. It is kind of a “take it or leave it” thinking isn’t it?
Cervantes
@srv:
Nice to see Gingrich finally embracing his role as America’s laughingstock.
JPL
The moderators on Meet The Press, seemed surprise that Carly is not backing down from her Planned Parenthood comments. Andrea mentioned that the fully formed fetus they showed, was a still born child that had nothing to do with Planned Parenthood.
also.. Carly is a more refined Sarah, but the lies are the same.
geg6
@gene108:
True, but it only goes to prove my point that most religions have idolatry of one kind or another.
geg6
@Tommy:
You can disagree with the Pope and still be a good Catholic. Just depends on what, exactly, your disagreement is.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tommy: Read this.
D58826
From Ben Carson this morning:
The level or ignorance and arrogance is staggering. Can you imagine the freak out of the Christian fundies if the King of Saudi Arabia suggested that the Bible be rewritten to suit his tastes? They certasinly went ballistic when Obama suggested that Christianity has a few things to answer for, but then he is a Kenyan/socialist/facist/Muslim any way.
Since he has a list of Islams failings maybe he should do a little reading of American/European history, up to and including today’s newspapers. Topics to review would be the divine right of kings(Christian), state religions in most of Europe (the reason the Pilgrims got on the boat), the Inquisition, a woman’s place is in the home and under the leadership of men (Duggers anyone).
Presumably given his concern for gay rights in the Muslim world he will back gay marriage and as President propose a nation anti-discrimination law for the gay community.? I also assume that he would use the powers of the DOJ to urge the judge to put Kim Davis back in jail for contempt.
Also in the news in the past few days, due to the pope’s visit and the canonization of the Spanish missionary is the series papal bulls that divided the world between Spain and Portugal (which is why they speak Portuguese in Brazil and not Spanish). Among other things it authorized the Portuguese and Spaniards to kill any natives that resisted Christianity, take their land and enslave them. Seems that these bulls are still part of Catholic law and according to the article are part of the basis of American law in dealing with native Americans..
I would ask exactly how stupid can the GOOPERS be but I’m afraid that we will find out overe the next several months.
schrodinger's cat
@geg6: Isn’t having a specific place of worship, idolatry of sorts? I mean if God is everywhere why do you need a temple or a church?
RaflW
@Chris: On some level, this makes “sense.” For quite a while, Republicanism was the party of the white male elite. It was the business class, the white collar, the educated and non-evangelical Protestant.
So of course, it’s the natural ruling class. I don’t agree, but am just attempting an analysis.
But the punditocracy is decrepit and moribund, and can’t see that their natural ruling class is now insane, detached from most business interests and only following the tax cut wing, most base voters are not educated or white collar, and evangelical end-times-ists, a la Mmme Bachmann, are well on the rise (though she in particular is out).
And, also, to some extent, bipartisanship did tend to produce a more moderate policy outcome. Horse trading did produce more decent deals than terrible ones – though terrible ideas of course did pass in the good old days too (I’m looking at you, triangulator-in-chief).
The pundits are not totally wrong in a rear view mirror sense, but they are unable to recalibrate for the current environment.
schrodinger's cat
@D58826: I don’t take a cult member who thinks that planetary motion is the result of an intelligent designer seriously.
schrodinger's cat
I like this Pope, it could be because I was educated by Jesuits from grade 1-10.
Tommy
@JPL: Keep going after Planned Parenthood and see how that works in my district. I live in what was a blue district that is now becoming somewhat purple. For the first time in 70 years we elected a Republican to the House last year. The largest Planned Parenthood facility is a block from where my brother lives. Not sure you could find a more button up, professional organization.
I know a lot of pretty conservative people, some the family my brother married into, and none of them are engaged with Planned Parenthood as a huge campaign issue. Lots of ladies in their family from 18-32 and many use Planned Parenthood for medical services, so …..
Given I am one person in one district. Can’t project this all to the nation as a whole, but seems to me a losing issue for the right.
MattF
@Cervantes: Yeah, Noot was just an innocent bystander when he ‘gave up’ his position as Speaker. Because of those hardcore radicals.
RaflW
@D58826: The level of ignorance and arrogance is
staggeringpar for the course.No one on the right gets elected these days for having a nuanced, or even basically factually correct interpretation of foreign events. Christian ‘Merika is the powerfulest, bestest country on earth, dammit. We win*, that’s it, Make ‘Merika Great Again!
That this is tolerated in polite pundit circles goes to my statement above that the Village is decrepit.
*And we’ve only lost Iraq because Obama. They’ve rewritten Viet Nam by now. Etc.
Baud
@D58826:
Agreed. Vote Dems!
Tommy
@Omnes Omnibus: I asked a question and you gave me a very, very specific link. I started to read, then reread a little, and have to admit it hurt my head. I am more confused.
MattF
@D58826: Note that he’s pretty much giving a list of his own positions, and then attributing them to that bad ‘Sharia-fatwa-Mooslim’ thing.
Iowa Old Lady
I just spent two weeks in Europe where my only news was the BBC. It was hour after hour of coverage of the refugee/migrant crisis and the VW emission cheating, interspersed with soccer and rugby. But I did hear on pundit quote Carson about Muslims in the government and point out that Carson’s position is unconstitutional. The BBC guy read the section of the Constitution that says no religious test shall be imposed.
But I see that while I was gone you all got rid of Scott Walker and John Boehner. Way to go!
J R in WV
@Gimlet:
Podhortz (sic) says “Pope Francis is entirely within his rights to become the world’s foremost liberal. But, since that’s what he is, it can’t be wrong to say so. ”
He omits the plain fact that in doing so the Pope becomes more accurate and fact based. All economic statistics show that any economy improves when subject to liberal (Democratic, in the USA) rule and regulation than when subjected to conservative austerity programs, such as demanded by the Republicans here in the USA and around the world.
People in Africa get to pay interest on their “aid” programs, structured as “loans” from international and national banks and funds, which reduces the benefits of those programs below break-even. Also, the programs are spent on huge infrastructure programs which profit giant international construction corporations, rather than on development at the personal level, where small businesses would be helped, and would hire many more employees than a hydro-power dam or a giant copper mine, just for a couple of real world examples.
So, for probably the first time in my life, I say viva il Papa Francis. There was another liberal pope a while ago, who died about a month into his career – mysteriously, some say. No autopsy, no tox screen, just mystery. Hmmm?
And good to hear from you Sooner! But to root against the poor Lions seems contradictory, really. They have so little chance of upsetting one of the power teams it feels a little like piling on to me. And the relationship between Peyton Manning, he of the fragile spine, and the Broncos also seems perverse, Like they’re aiding and abetting his tendency to self harm or something.
I think Manning is crazy to keep playing with his medical issues. He should retire and enjoy his wealth and family. He has plenty of both. He could become a coach if he needs to be on the field, or beside it, anyways.
D58826
@RaflW: The truly frightening thing is one of these clowns may well get elected. Even a ‘moderately sane’ Bush will still have to answer in some degree to the nuts. If he assumed that he could tack right in the primaries and then to the center in the general see how well that worked for John Boehner. These folks have taken a very important scalp and they won’t be satisfied with just a few crumbs like Planned Parenthood. Bush’s foreign policy advisers are a bunch of retreads from Bush 43. Not a comforting thought.
Denali
Good to hear from you, Soonergrunt. Arches and Canyonlands are among the most beautiful of our national parks. The area around Moab is amazing for the pictographs. Nine mile Canyon and Horseshoe Canyon are well worth seeking out, especially in the fall or spring. Have a great time getting to know this beautiful park of the country!
Mike E
@RaflW: I’m gonna fry up some of that corn starch coated chicken they showed on Cook’s Country.
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne: Hey there. How goes the trip?
I love a good link too. That said, you can find most articles by copying a block of text and loading it into teh Google. Works most of the time.
But links are sexy.
Cervantes
@J R in WV:
That’s awful, it’s true, and it can get worse.
For example, the Bush Administration (43) blocked “aid” to Haiti for a while, during which period the Haitian government could not receive funds and yet had to pay interest on those funds. The cruelty was grotesque.
Tommy
@D58826: This is just my two cents. Bush might be able to win the General. Rubio, maybe, but a long shot. If the Republicans put anybody else up they will get crushed. Bush worries me the most because the media will make him seem “sane” but I can only assume residents of FL that lived through him running the state will tell a far different story. But not a story we will hear outside of a place like here or TPM.
Davis X. Machina
@D58826:
This will depend entirely on turnout, and that will depend on how many erstwhile Democrats decide to Send. A. Message.
We are the masters of our fate, we are the captains of our souls…
Eric U.
@D58826: Carson is so cute, he doesn’t understand that Islamophobia is just the latest dog whistle for racism
Davis X. Machina
@gene108: Hinduism wins that one either by a head (Ganesha) or hands down (Siva) depending….
J R in WV
@Morzer:
@satby:
Anything that needs a theological defense is asking for trouble in my U-U mind. And like the poorly educated about theology masses of the church are keeping that fine distinction in mind as they pray for their mortally ill parent or child, really? Come on guys, really?
Although the Orthodox folk seem even more into idolatry than the Catholics, from a distance. We visited several ancient churches and cathedrals in Europe during our Archaeological Tour of 30K Y O cave paintings, along with museums, dig sites, etc. I can tell you that they are not like the neighborhood churches I grew up with.
Every wealthy family in town had a gold and silver private altar / tomb with much competition for most glitter and swank, as if they were all designed by Trump. Beautiful, but very strange to a non-Catholic agnostic. Our last cathedral stop was in Paris, in the crowds touring Notre Dame. There’s a great archaeological dig there under ground, of a Roman town that was discovered when they went to build something new. They put in huge supports and saved the ruins where people can tour, fascinating!
Davis X. Machina
@geg6: You don’t find the dulia v. latria distinction sufficient?
Cervantes
@Iowa Old Lady:
The “No Religious Test” Clause of the US Constitution means only that the federal government cannot apply such a test. It says nothing about requiring, say, voters to disregard a candidate’s religious stance or beliefs. Voters are free to reject candidates if they don’t approve of the candidate’s beliefs, and there’s nothing “unconstitutional” about it.
So: What did Carson say?
Tommy
@Eric U.: Eric, you think. I only know one Muslim person well. Close friend. Know what he does for a living? Small business owner. Owns a “head” shop. Selling shit you smoke pot with, sorry, tobacco pipes and such :)!
D58826
@Davis X. Machina: I agree. I know Hillary isn’t necessarily a favorite around here but I don’t think the other three candidates have a chance in the general, especially if it’s Bush for the GOP. The GOP will run a 4 word campaign against Sanders – ‘he is a socialist’. For most Americans socialism=communism = Stalin. Biden has tried twice before and never made it out of single digits in the primaries. And then there is the 4th guy, whomever. His name slips my mind at the moment. oh yea – O-malley’.
I’m afraid that after Hillary staggers across the finish line in the primaries, all of the democrats who voted against her will go in the corner to pout and then sit out the election. Turnout, or lack thereof doomed the democrats in 2010 and again in 2014. A repeat in 2016 will give the GOP total control in Washington as well as most of the states. The only question will be do they roll back the 21st/20th centuries or go for the 19th as well.
Baud
@D58826:
Hillary’s supporters voted for Obama. I hope and expect Sanders’ supporters will have the same level of class.
MattF
@Cervantes: Well now, wait– are you saying that a State or local government could apply a religious test? That doesn’t sound right.
Omnes Omnibus
@D58826:
Pure doom and gloom speculation IMO.
Amir Khalid
@Tommy:
Many Muslims would consider his business, selling mind-altering substances and related paraphernalia, haram — the same as running a liquor store. (I’m aware that some Muslims in secular countries do indeed own liquor stores.)
Cervantes
@Baud:
What fraction?
Common sense, never mind “class”!
Baud
@Cervantes:
I don’t have numbers, but the vast majority of them must have, since Obama won the election.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
Are you sure about that? As I understand, that clause has been interpreted as also applying to other levels of government.
Omnes Omnibus
@MattF: It is not right. See, Everson v. Board of Education 330 U.S 1 (1947).
VFX Lurker
@RaflW:
I had to unfollow (not unfriend) a friend’s mother on Facebook because she shared a bullshit meme that follows that bullshit fantasy mindset. Something about “Obama persecuting Christians in the military” because the military gives extra attention to those members who follow extremist evangelical groups.
She’s a kindhearted soul who gave me rides home from school when I was a kid. She loves animals, and she was the first adult to make me aware of the cruel conditions for American veal. She adopts strays and unwanted animals from the shelters. Yet she shared this bullshit meme.
She’s a good person, but I’m bummed that she got swept up in the bullshit tide.
The Other Bob
Does anyone think that the anti-Pope comments from the right will piss off any Catholics that might have been willing to vote Repub?
geg6
@Davis X. Machina:
It is laughable. But all theology is.
Elizabelle
@The Other Bob: Yes, I do think it might open a breach among Catholics. Bring it on!
WereBear
Great to see you back, Sooner!
I took a birthday check from a friend and got a good-sized begonia for my office in preparation for this coming winter. Last year’s experiment with a mini-rose didn’t work; it just didn’t get enough light and I wasn’t going to invest in a grow light etc when I don’t have the room.
This one should be better suited. I have a lightbox to ward off Seasonal Affective Disorder; between that and my natural light desklamp and the light that sneaks into my window through the porch might just add up enough to keep it happy and flowering.
Which is the point.
Baud
@VFX Lurker:
There is a longstanding dispute, predating Obama, I think, about whether the military favors liturgal Christians denominations over evangelicals.
Tommy
@Amir Khalid: Well he sells the paraphernalia, NOT the drugs. His parents are not, I repeat not happy about it all. Parents came here from Pakistan and are both high school teachers (math and science).
Their son and daughter are both, well not like their parents. I know not all immigrates are like them, but in a generation they went from being this to that. As American kids as you can find. Upsets me so much people thinking immigrants can’t be apart of our nation.
WereBear
That’s only true of voters who are a certain age. You realize that people born in 1998 are eligible to vote in the next election? They don’t have the same pithed frog reaction to those terms as does the typical middle-aged rural voter.
Not by a mile.
Cervantes
@MattF:
No, what I said was that a part of the Constitution — the “No Religious Test” Clause (it’s in Article VI, paragraph 3) — restrained only the Federal government.
In fact, many states and local governments did apply religious tests — all the way until 1961, when the Supreme Court decided the case of Torcaso v. Watkins. It was this decision, not the language of Article VI itself, that finally disallowed religious tests more broadly.
And actually, if you look around at various state constitutions, you’ll find some that, technically, still (reserve the right to) impose a religious test.
satby
@geg6: see, I’m not even a Catholic any longer at all, but insisting that it’s idolatry when the rationale has been explained seems unnecessarily provocative. Dickish, even. They aren’t praying to the statues.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Everson had to do with incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
The “No Religious Test” Clause is not there; it is in Article VI.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
See here.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: You are correct.
shell
None of them can explain how we can make America great again if its already so gosh-darn great.
Frankensteinbeck
@Chris:
I offer one more precept that makes the others consistent: They believe that Reaganite Republican policies and theory are correct. They take it as a bedrock assumption that blacks/gays/women have it coming to them, only cowboy diplomacy works, the rich should get whatever they want, the poor need to stop mooching and work harder, and so on. Thus, if the Republicans refuse to pass a budget without defunding Planned Parenthood, and Democrats refuse to pass a budget that defunds Planned Parenthood, both sides are overheated, sure, but it’s the Democrats who are refusing to consider a perfectly reasonable request.
EDIT – @shell:
Only because ‘Put white people back in charge’ sounds obviously racist. If Americans took back America, America’s basic superiority would immediately shine through again.
satby
@WereBear: In fact, quite a lot of them consider the hellscapes of Scandinavia and France nice places to live, what with all the socialist benefits and such. The contrast to the way we live here is pretty stark, and ‘Merica comes up short in the quality of life equation.
gene108
@MattF:
Colonial governments had religious tests for voting. These hung around some time after the Comstitution was put in place at the state and local level.
Not until the passage of the 14th Amendment were religious tests eliminated at the state and local level.
Cervantes
@Baud:
About the following:
You now elaborate:
I do have numbers — at least, re the “white female” vote:
2004: Bush 55% Kerry 44%
2008: McCain 53% Obama 46%
2012: Romney 56% Obama 42%
With these (and no other?) numbers in mind, how can you be so sure that (“the vast majority of”?) “Hillary’s supporters voted for Obama”?
WereBear
@satby: Exactly why I think OMG SOCIALIST has lost a lot of its power to stampede.
Chris
@RaflW:
Well, you’re right, I do think the “ruling class” history of the GOP has a lot to do with the MSM’s fetish for them. From the robber barons of the Gilded Age to the Rockefeller Republicans of the 20th century to today’s banksters, one thing that hasn’t changed is the GOP being the party of wealthy East Coasters. Other constituencies have come and gone, the specific policies supported by those wealthy East Coasters have changed, but the basic status of the GOP as Wall Street’s party hasn’t.
… aaaand, what are MSM pundits, if not wealthy or at least well off East Coasters? QED. (At the national level, at least. Don’t know that I necessarily expected the same attitude in Kansas City).
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes:
Why are you suggesting that the “white female vote” is somehow equivalent to the 2008 HRC primary vote?
Baud
@Cervantes:
Huh? Why would you use the “white female” vote in the general election as a stand in for Hillary supporters in the primary?
How does Obama win the general election without a vast majority number of Hillary primary voters?
Princess
@The Other Bob: Yes, I think the attack from the right will upset Catholics, especially those who primarily vote Repub because of abortion politics. They will recognize it as a kind of old-fashioned anti-Catholicism.
I also think that if Trump were to be the nominee (which I don’t think he will be) that would be another reason for the Repubs to lose many of the Catholic voters who had been supporting them.
Emma
@satby: I stay away from such discussions because so called “educated atheists”are even more likely to spout garbage than the worst evangelical.
amk
@Cervantes:
so you claim hillary’s base is only white female voters?
Cervantes
@amk:
I claimed nothing. I questioned a claim someone else made. They provided no numbers. They can work around the numbers I provided, or not.
Origuy
Soonergrunt, another nice place to go in the SLC area is Timpanogos Cave National Monument, 40 miles south of the city. You have to hike 1.5 miles up to get to the cave entrance, but the tour through the cave isn’t difficult.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: You provided those number for a reason, one presumes. What was that reason?
Baud
@Cervantes:
You provided irrelevant numbers. I provided an explanation for my belief. Obama’s election demonstrates that Hillary supporters voted for him. Can that be refuted with numbers? Sure. With the numbers you provided? No.
Germy Shoemangler
amk
@Cervantes:
Those kindsa obama and hillary supporter numbers are’nt toted up anywhere unlike the racial split that every msm does. Guess it makes it convenient for you then to question the claim her supporters voted for obama while logic would say the same.
sharl
@Cervantes:
Yep, at least as of last year, seven states apparently have such laws:
Hmm, how did I miss that my own state (MD) has such a law? Then again, when I moved here in the mid-80s, there was a law that forbade movers from transporting one’s belongings to a new residence on Sunday (could still be on the books, for all I know). So maybe I shouldn’t be so surprised.
MazeDancer
So, Jindal exits.
A good 50% of tweets mention “Another One Bites the Dust”. Thinking Brian May and Roger Taylor should consider some kind of licensing for the next 13 or so to go, give money to worthy cause. Dr. May likes animal rights.
Here’s Queen live at Rock in Rio this year doing the song if anyone would like to sing along https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpyMG2Pldvs
sharl
@Emma: Ahh, you’ve encountered the more irksome faction of Mah Peeple! I’ve seen gogol’s wife run into these nuisances here – The Simpsons Comic Book Guy is real, and he comments at B-J – so I figure I should pipe up the next time I’m around the next time one of those flare-ups happens.
I dread the prospect though. Sooo many words, sooo many links. I’ll have to take off from work or something…
bemused
Chris Wallace pushed back on Jeb’s tax plan (Raw Story) pointing out that his plan would increase deficit 1 to 3 trillion $ over ten year, voodoo economics. Middle class income increase 2.9% vs 11.6% for top 1%. Wallace asks Jeb if he needs a 3 million dollar tax cut.
Has anyone on Fox news ever done this before, asked these questions of any other Republican, president candidate or not, with basically the same tax cut plans?
Baud
@MazeDancer:
I wonder which other candidate gets his supporter.
Frankensteinbeck
@sharl:
It’s completely normal for states and older municipalities to have a bunch of outdated, unconstitutional, unenforced laws on the books. Those laws stay on the books by not being enforced for decades or centuries (well, ‘century’), so they never hit a court challenge that gets them removed. I remember when I was a kid, someone dug up an old witchcraft law to run a gypsy out of a town in Kentucky, and there had to be a trial to get the law recognized as no longer valid.
Some of these laws are totally bizarre, like ‘You can’t have ice cream in your pockets when you walk down main street,’ or hilariously obsolete, like ‘a motor vehicle entering town must have a flag waver on the front.’
Baud
@bemused:
They’ll sometimes ask real questions. Often it feels like they’re doing it so that the candidate can practice his response in a friendly setting, but it does happen.
Amir Khalid
@Baud:
“Supporter”? Are you sure Jindal has that many?
Amir Khalid
@Frankensteinbeck:
I’m sure you can think of some motorists who should be forced to comply with this law.
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
No. No I’m not.
PurpleGirl
@Gimlet: Since Gimlet is too lazy to C&P here’s the URL:
nypost.com/2015/09/25/pope-francis-is-just-another-liberal-political-pundit/
Podhoretz is still a jerk.
Frankensteinbeck
@Amir Khalid:
Only if they’re dying historic on the fury road.
EDIT – Aaaaand now flashing back to badass motorcycle warrior grannies. SO AWESOME. They did their own freaking stunts.
Corner Stone
@sharl: Worst.Comment.Ever!
Ang
Tommy – very basic version is that in general the pope is not considered infallible. But the pope sets doctrine – and if he chooses can also formally declare that what he is saying in that specific doctrine _is_ the revealed truth and is infallible. Popes very rarely do this, I suspect because the church thinks really, long term and they want to leave wiggle room for those that come after them.
Cervantes
@Corner Stone:
I rather doubt it!
sharl
@Corner Stone: {Bows, curtsies.}
Germy Shoemangler
Walked into the living room this morning and Mrs. Shoemangler had an ABC morning show on… Martha Radditz leading a roundtable. Matthew Dowd criticized what Michelle Obama wore when she met the Pope.
Click.
Davis X. Machina
@Ang:
The joke in Rome is that it takes three popes to change anything.
Pope 1: Never! This is the eternal and immutable teaching of the Church.
Pope 2: Never! Not so long as I am pope.
Pope 3: Not only is this not a change, it has always been so, the eternal and immutable teaching of the Church.
Debbie
@MazeDancer:
I’m not seeing anything on Google saying much more than Jindahl might be considering dropping out. It would be great if it was true, but he came across as a very motivated candidate on Glenn Beck’s show on Friday. The added bonus of Beck’s distress would be a wonderful way to start the week!
bemused
@Baud:
Wallace also said to Jeb that whether the tax cut plan was Reagan’s or your brother’s, they both increased the deficit. Jeb’s answer his brother didn’t increase deficit as much as “static thinkers on the left” claim. 2.9% is more money in their pockets and will increase economic activity. Jeb said 1% pay 40% of taxes so “of course”, they get bigger percentage of tax cuts. “That’s the way it is”.
Are middle & lower class Fox fans still buying the same old, same old bs, corporations job creators need more tax cuts, etc? I suppose it’s too much to hope that they start figuring out those tax cuts didn’t do much for them.
sharl
@Frankensteinbeck: You are certainly right about old, obscure, and forgotten laws remaining on the books until someone stumbles over them. The thing about that Maryland law forbidding moving on a Sunday though is that the apartment I moved into provided advance notice about it. So unless my apartment management was the only one doing so, that particular silly and inconvenient law wasn’t obscure and forgotten.
Davis X. Machina
@satby: Most people have never traveled there. Fish don’t know they’re wet.
Germy Shoemangler
@Debbie: Jindahl is calling for Mitch M. to resign. I haven’t seen any announcements yet that he is dropping out of the race, just some predictions that he is close to it.
bemused
@Germy Shoemangler:
Jealousy.
I don’t think I can remember a single time I was impressed by Laura Bush outfits. In fact, I can’t remember thinking anything but how dowdy and boring.
Amir Khalid
Per the most recent poll from Fox News, Gilmore (who, last I heard, was still only preparing to campaign) is at under 1%; Jindal, Santorum and Graham are below him at zilch. The last three could safely quit the race without causing an unseemly scramble among the rest of the field for their supporters.
Baud
@bemused:
Hard to know. Is anyone except Trump speaking to this issue on the right? Does it have legs if Trump is not the nominee?
Chris
@Davis X. Machina:
The Church is never wrong. It just changes its mind a lot.
D58826
@Omnes Omnibus: I hope to be wrong.
On the other hand I just paid 1.99 a gallon for gas. it’s all obama’s fault – impeach!!!!!!!!!!!
bemused
@Baud:
Trumpbots seemed to like what he said on that issue a lot but that still doesn’t mean they are capable of connecting dots.
henqiguai
@Frankensteinbeck (#179):
Hey! I know *that* one, so as to warn the ladies and horses. It was on the books in Washington, PA. Yeah, was briefly a ‘J-fairy’. Townies, idiots to the bone.
ETA: #176 –> #179. Oopsie.
Germy Shoemangler
@bemused: I don’t remember ANY of the sunday morning talking heads ever criticizing anything Laura Bush or Nancy Reagan ever wore.
This current crop of paid-talking GOP pigs are as nasty as they wanna be.
D58826
@Ang: The solemn declaration of papal infallibility by Vatican I took place on 18 July 1870. Since that time, the clearest example of an ex cathedra decree (not the only such decree)[6] took place in 1950, when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as an article of faith.[
bemused
@Germy Shoemangler:
Me neither. Nancy dressed quite fancy compared to Laura but Ronnie and Nancy were the it couple for Republicans.
redshirt
@Frankensteinbeck:
WITNESS!
satby
@Davis X. Machina: don’t need to physically go when the ‘net brings the world to you.
Davis X. Machina
@satby: It also brings you Red State, e.g. A very two-edged sword.
PurpleGirl
@Tommy: The Pope is infallible only when talking about a matter of faith. On any thing else, he’s just as human as the rest of us. But this Pope wants us to consider things like climate change and income inequality as moral issues and so he talks with a moral authority. They aren’t matters of faith per se but they are moral issues with respect to our relationship to each other. It’s a more expansive view of morality.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Hal:
You gotta pick and choose (and sometimes use the DVR). Rachel Khoo’s Little Paris Kitchen is a current fave: 9:00 a.m. EDT on Wednesday on the Cooking Channel. Also Bitchin’ Kitchen at 7:30 a.m. on Wednesday.
And I search for Jacques Pépin reruns on PBS.
J R in WV
@schrodinger’s cat: Well, without a church, it makes collecting the Sunday “Offering” so much more difficult.!!
And what could be more important than that?
joel hanes
@Germy Shoemangler:
Some of us liberals did criticize Nancy Reagan for some of her gowns and airs — it appeared that she conceived of herself as a Duchess, rather than Dolly Madison’s successor.
germy shoemangler
@joel hanes: But none of the professional talkers treated like experts on network political shows.
Steeplejack (phone)
@SiubhanDuinne:
Seconded.
WaterGirl
@Cervantes: Wow. That surprised me, coming from you. “white female voters”does not equal “hillary supporters”. Ugh.
Edit: I try to always read to the end of ht comments before commenting myself, but I couldn’t help myself when I saw your comment. Had I just read a couple more comments, I would have seen that Omnes and Baud got already raised this point.
Beatrice
@Baud: 93% of Democrats who voted in the 2008 election voted for Obama.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/112132/election-polls-vote-groups-2008.aspx
I think that supports your assertion.
Xenos
Big full moon has risen over the German border. No pieces missing yet.
I am heading into bed early, and will check in a few hours.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
Thanks for asking. We’re having a lot of fun as a family, and the days are going by much too quickly! Many of our collective memories are linked to specific places, so we’re visiting as many of those as we can get in — Art Institute, Field Museum, Museum of Science & Industry, etc. And restaurants: we had dinner at The Berghoff the other night, and Marshall Field’s classic chicken pot pie for lunch in the Walnut Room (I cannot bring myself to call it Macy’s). Seeing old family friends for dinner tonight, doing the Architectural Boat Tour tomorrow, and on our last night here — Tuesday — we will have dinner in the restaurant that is now in the location where our family’s bookstore was located for 35+ years. We’re celebrating three 70th birthdays (my cousin turned 70 a couple of weeks ago, and my younger brother and sister have their 70th in mid-October. And Tuesday would have been our grandmother’s birthday.)
It’s rare that we’re all together at the same time and place, and we haven’t all been together in Oak Park since 1978. Lots of laughing and silliness. Very little in the way of substantive conversations. I seem to be related to a lot of right-wingers, although they’re not the frothing-at-the-mouth type. Mostly low-info default conservatives, not very interested in politics, who think that fella Trump speaks good common sense.
rickstersherpa
One thing that Bernie Sanders running for President and polling well means is that the Sunday Morning shows have to occasionally have him on and, despite their best efforts, he gets to talk policy and programs, all those “very left wing programs” like free tuition at public community colleges and universities and boosting social security, which are also of course supported by 70% or more of the American people. http://crooksandliars.com/2015/09/sanders-uses-walkers-exit-take-crack-koch
rickstersherpa
@Cervantes: Well, first Carson was talking about the Presidency, which the last time I looked was a Federal office. Second, I expect every State Constitution has a clause similar to Article VI , and if not, the Supreme Court has long read the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause as to forbid religious tests for civil offices or using a civil office to promote a particular religious point of view (Kim Davis obviously did not get this memo.) Now there are at least 3 guys on the current court who may want to insert a “no establishment of religion unless Christian” clause into the First Amendment, but they will only get their their fourth and fifth vote if one of the Republicans can win the White House in 2016 or 2020.
Cervantes
@rickstersherpa:
Yes, but what did he actually say?
Does it matter?
redshirt
@Xenos:
The eclipse doesn’t start until 4 hours from now.
Cervantes
@WaterGirl:
You think I equated the two groups?
Steeplejack (phone)
@Elizabelle:
Why should five, 10 or 100 people have to individually hunt down a source when one person could easily provide it? It’s basic courtesy.
WaterGirl
@Cervantes: Sure seemed like it to me! And to multiple other people, as well, I think.
You said:
The only reason for you to have included that is if you thought it was relevant and had some bearing on the issue being discussed, which was whether Hillary’s supporters voted for Obama.
Cervantes
@WaterGirl:
What do you think that “at least” means?
Elie
Late to the thread, but welcome back sooner– happy to “see” your posts and comments…
Lordy, I just don’t know what to think anymore other than the Republican Party is beyond lost and that years of really poor leadership and thinking have filtered out all but the most radical people with the most sketchy leadership ability. They will have a hard time figuring their way out of this because they basically stopped doing any rational thinking related to governance policy based on reality over 20 years ago, getting more bizarre with each election cycle.
I do believe that they reflect their base, so from that aspect it is a legitimate view of their beliefs and desires. However, its a population that has perceived traumatic loss in the changing demographics of this country as well as the linkages to the outside global community. The Republicans might have decided to help transition (read lead) these people who have such fear and therefore hatred of change, but they took the easy road and just reflected the derangement. They have no place to go with this that isn’t going to require a very marked adjustment.
Using climbing language, they let themselves get way off route and now no belay (or security roping), can prevent a very big swing with accompanying crash into the wall or fall. They followed what looked like the easier route — and it was– echoing rather than trying to shape the ignorant haters unmoored to real life. But now they are looking at some really gnarly stuff with no obvious grips or cracks and its getting dark. They can do nothing else at this point but to stay committed to this route. Many of those who will lead the next pitches (sections of the climb) may know that the whip fall is coming but there is no way to backtrack– they can only go forward and each move makes the resulting adjustment every more consequential and dangerous. For climbers, that is part of accepting your situation and planning your moves to prevent further risk as you think about saving your self. For this situation, where aberrant thinking and poor judgment are why you are where you are, there is not much point in thinking of what might have been.. Rather, move forward/upward as quickly as possible and hope for the best.
PurpleGirl
@joel hanes: Also that some of the fanciest gowns were given to her by the designers although she claimed they were loaned to her. She continued a view of herself from the Hollywood days. Laura Bush was dowdy, she had little style sense. Hillary got also criticized for her clothing choices.
Michelle Obama has great style and I usually adore her clothes.
schrodinger's cat
@PurpleGirl: I got your email. I still have to take pictures of the pendant, this weekend has been too busy.
PurpleGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: That’s okay. I scanned a few pieces I’ve made but haven’t put them on on-line yet. we’ll get it together at some point.
WaterGirl
@Cervantes: I understand what “at least” means.
Still for you to have included the info with this phrase: “I do have numbers — at least, re the “white female” vote:” tells me you think it’s relevant to the conversation about whether Hillary supporters voted for Obama. I do not.
If you don’t think those numbers were relevant to the conversation, why did you include them?
Renie
Jindal has not dropped out — yet. A Politico article said they expect him, Pataki and Paul to drop out and someone (I think NPR) tweeted it at as saying Jindal DID drop out.
Cervantes
@WaterGirl:
That I assumed. My question was slightly different.
Anyhow, I’m off. Have a great rest-of-the-afternoon.
Chris
@Elie:
I still think the echo chamber effect, the construction of a parallel reality that they started in the seventies (right wing think tanks, right wing media, right wing church networks, etc) and completed long ago, has a lot to do with it. Originally, it might have been meant as nothing but good propaganda to reach out to and motivate voters, but the party fell for its own con and got lost in it long ago. Witness the Romney campaign and Nate Silver’s polls: any time a fact pops up that disturbs them, they rush to consult the Right Wing Echo Chamber, which reassures them that it’s not true.
It certainly does reflect their base. The ultimate problem with the Republican Party isn’t politicians or pundits or financiers – it’s the average voter. Which also explains why they chose not to help “transition” people into the modern world. Who’s going to risk doing that when they know that all that’ll do is hand their primary opponents a weapon to bury them with? The voters aren’t going to tolerate people who don’t pander to their anxieties. The Bush campaigns did make some steps in that direction in the nineties and 2000s by making inroads into the Latino vote, and look at the result – all swept away in the teabagger backlash, and now the front-runner is Donald Trump.
Elie
@Chris:
I do think that good leaders and visionaries CAN help shape grassroots perceptions. Is it easy? Does it require gifted leaders? Yes. Without it you end up destroying what looks like easy wins because you just cannot reasonably go with that kind of narrow perspective and win in the long run. Perhaps a deeper problem for the Republicans is less wanting to lead than knowing that any logical policy that makes sense to pursue from a rational basis, would not differentiate them sufficiently from the Democrats. The effectiveness of the Democrats in formulating their ideas and policies have given the Republicans nowhere to go except to the extreme right. They can keep winning their base with that, but they can’t grow their influence or stay relevant. I believe that is why they keep cultivating so many extreme factions hoping to cobble together enough voters/votes to make things work for them. Forrest Trump has made it very difficult by shitting all over immigrants, giving them nowhere to go except the hardcore religious and white supremacists…..
Trump is the defacto leader of the Republicans right now. Would you name anyone else as leader?
RaflW
@Chris: There have been blue bloods here in K.C. for a long time. My grandmother was a D.A.R. and related to Ulysses S Grant. A lot of it is pretentious bullshit, of course, but rich people re rich people, east coast or not.
MazeDancer
Adding here – and posting in current open thread – apparently Bobby Jindal is not dropping out. Yet. Many sources – including Politico (I know) – caused Twitter avalanche. Apologies for repeating. My usual research before posting failed.
But, hey, we all got to hear Queen + Adam Lambert, again. So some fun.
dww44
@Hal: Join the crowd. The only time it’s worth watching is between about 10 a.m. and 5 p.m., and even then it’s easy to get overdosed on Giada and Ina. Were you also aware that they run infomercials before 10 or so? I almost never watch the network. Just plain turned off by the programming.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@geg6: First there were the Reagan Democrats, now come the Clinton Republicans. That may be the only thing that saves our bacon in 14 months.