Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

This fight is for everything.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

This blog will pay for itself.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / I know Betty Covered This Earlier, But…

I know Betty Covered This Earlier, But…

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I identify as an atheist these days, but to be clear, I’m a Jewish one.  By that I mean that the religious education I received and the ongoing value I find in some ritual and more reading and thinking about the tradition to which I’m heir inform a lot of the way I try to understand and act in the world.

That’s the framework in which I found myself gagging and raging at the nonsense behind this “prayer shaming” horse hockey.

My response?  Ein bischen Deuteronomy:

29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever…*

That I (and many exegeses I’ve heard on this verse, which is slapped all over the Jewish High Holidays liturgy) gloss as that which we know, that which we see in the world — that’s what it falls to us to repair.

Then there’s James 2:14-16 — of which I was reminded by a Twitter correspondent when I started slinging scripture there earlier in the day:

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Rembrandt_The_Hundred_Guilder_Print

To those of us whose scriptural knowledge resides mostly in the Jewish bible, the echoes of Isaiah 58: 3-7 are inescapable.  (This is another one of the greatest hits of Yom Kippur):

3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.

4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

All of which points to a conclusion obvious to the non-sociopathic: prayer is a conversation one has in private. It does not exhaust — it does not begin to meet — the sum of what a would-be good person must do.  And not just that:  Jewish scripture and Christian testament, and a metric fucktonne of secular reasoning all come to the conclusion that public piety is meaningless without the actual work of repairing the world (the Hebrew phrase is tikkun olam).

Which is why I find the crap purveyed by gun-murder-enablers suggesting that religiosity is no substitute for actually taking action so hateful, even vicious.  If I were a believer I would say that there are circles of hell for those who know why innocents are slaughtered, and yet do nothing, actually bar the way to doing anything, to prevent those deaths.

And yeah — I know that this is belaboring the obvious. But what’s a blog for, if not for the endless flogging of deceased equine quadrupeds?

*You may notice that all these quotes come from the King James version.  A heterodox choice for one who identifies as Jewish.  But oh, my friends, and ah, my foes, that music!

Image: Rembrandt van Rijn, The Hundred Guilder Print  (also: Christ Preaching and/or Jesus healing the sick) c. 1646-1650.

Reader Interactions

189Comments

  1. 1.

    JMG

    Dear Tom: When asked about my religion, which almost never happens, I reply I am a nominal Christian for the music.

  2. 2.

    revrick

    I’m convinced that all those statements that the victims of these mass murders are being held in thoughts and prayers are a stench in the nostrils of God. No matter how sincere they may be, if not followed up by some action, they amount to no more than an empty, narcissistic gesture. And it’s especially galling coming from a political figure using this supposed act of piety as a flag of virtue they can wave before voters.

  3. 3.

    Roger Moore

    I also want to slap those people silly with some Matthew 6:

    5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

    Yeah, that’s right, publicity whores. Your own holy book says God doesn’t care about your public prayer done to impress your fellow man. It’s what you think in private that he really cares about, which ought to scare a lot of Republicans if they actually believe in God.

  4. 4.

    Elie

    Thank you for this, Tom…

    14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

    15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

    16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

    I think we have to use the words of the bible and Judeo-Christian traditions to fight the evil thought and just plain cruelty we see.

    Why is it that the right wing are the only ones quoting scripture? Why cede them that? We must be ready to talk to everyone using the language that is meaningful to them. They are literal, and bound to the words… we must use these obvious tools….

  5. 5.

    Suzanne

    I consider myself a Christian humanist, because I think Jesus was awesome, and I strive to be that awesome. I have only a naturalist’s/ deist’s understanding of God, and I am deeply WHATEVER on the question of Jesus’s divinity. It honestly doesn’t matter to me. I have accepted that I am too much an evidence person to ever take anything on faith. Maybe this makes me an atheist. I don’t care what the label is. I’m spiritually comfortable.

    I don’t really pray very much because I don’t believe that there is anyone who hears it. However, a UU minister at the congregation nearby was a Christian pastor who lost his faith. He says, “Prayer doesn’t change God, but it changes you.” I totally get this. Consequently, if you weren’t changed by your prayer, you weren’t really praying. You were just reciting shit.

  6. 6.

    Elie

    @JMG:

    Why let others define what Christianity means? I am not a big bible banger, but I refuse to cede the belief in love, mercy and gentleness as the center of what I own about MY Christianity, and how values…. I cannot turn my back on what I believe because others see something else and try to define it differently.

    Much is called of us in these hard times. It is important to have our words be clear about what we value and the thoughts in our hearts about what we are ready to give for that… sooner or later, we are called to do what is difficult but meaningful. I have to repeat to myself what I believe and will serve or I will not be ready. And you never know when. May not be dramatic, life and death — but something of some cost — of needing to bear unforgettable witness

  9. 9.

    SiubhanDuinne

    *You may notice that all these quotes come from the King James version. A heterodox choice for one who identifies as Jewish. But oh, my friends, and ah, my foes, that music!

    I am also an atheist, albeit from the Presbyterian-Episcopalian tradition. I adore the music of those two hymnals, I am addicted to the language of the Book of Common Prayer, and I read the KJV for its poetry, and the RSV and similar to figure out what they might have been talking about. I am also rather fond of the LOLCAT Bible. (You will have to google it; link isn’t working at the moment.)

    And on top of everything else, you toss in some Edna St Vincent Millay! Is there no end to your talents?

  12. 12.

    greennotGreen

    I’m a pagan of sorts. I believe in God, but I believe Its character is beyond human comprehension. I could be wrong, but if I am, so what?

    But I also believe this: if there is a God, a universal consciousness from which all things flow and to which all things will return, then there is only one prayer: Thank you.

    Prayers of supplication – how do they go? Hey God, you’ve given me absolutely everything I have: life, consciousness, the stars, the mites that live in my eyebrows, the sclereid cells that make pears gritty, the sweetness of a grape…could you give me just one more thing? Unless that supplication is, help me be a better person to leave this world a better place. Now, that’s what I call hedging my bets. Because if I’m wrong and there is no eternal life, I will live on in my works.

    And those sons of bitches who stand in the way of gun control will live on in theirs, but theirs will be a legacy of death.

  13. 13.

    Elie

    @Suzanne:

    Very good words. I pray to remember to myself to remind myself of what is important and to stay in touch with that. I pray for wisdom to help myself do what is right and to be able to see it as well as the courage to do it…

  15. 15.

    eemom

    I’m very glad you brought it up again, because like Betty I was utterly disgusted by that “prayer shaming” piece of shit by Emma whatzerface in the Atlantic, but the thread was dead by the time I got there.

    FUCK these hypocritical monsters with their “prayers.”

  17. 17.

    Steeplejack

    @Tom Levenson:

    Which is why I find the crap purveyed by gun-murder-enablers suggesting that religiosity is no a substitute for actually taking action so hateful, even vicious.

    Edited to what I think you mean?

  21. 21.

    Another Holocene Human

    @redshirt: Between the candle and the star
    Between the darkness and the light
    We are the universe trying to figure itself out.

  22. 22.

    Ecks

    I’m no scholar of religion, but i used to hang out with some people who were far more so, and who argued about these things.

    IIRC, the idea of salvation by faith alone is one of the big religious splits within Christianity. Some forms of protestantism (particularly the right wing crazy sort, but not exclusively) see salvation as a matter of “sole fides” – faith alone. You say the magic words, that you take Christ as your personal saviour, and that’s it! Your sin is all gone, no matter how much of it you have – the thinking is that we are all sinners, no matter how righteous we think we are, and Christ came to Earth to wash away our sins, and so as long as we accept him into our hearts, in the correctly specified format, then all that stuff he said about washing away our sins becomes true, and we get to go to heaven. Not accepting him, means that your sin (which, remember, we ALL have) is not forgiven, so it’s eternity with the pitchforks and tweezers for you. Actual good acts, by this thinking, while certainly desirable, don’t particularly enter into it as far as heaven is concerned. That is purely and completely a matter of letting Jesus wash out the dirty sin that is otherwise endemic to us.

    Other Christian traditions don’t see it this way, of course, and both can line up quite a lot of scripture that is consistent with their readings (if there’s one thing you have to give the serious fundies, they do know their bible quite well, and read it a lot – even if that reading is done with certain very slanted sets of blinkers on).

  25. 25.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @redshirt: Fishing is very cool and interesting. Though I’m not prepared to say this isn’t.

    @raven: May I email you with some questions about WWII Navy? I have the addy.

  28. 28.

    Mike J

    I think I worship pre-Desi Lucy sort of like druids worship plants. Not holy unto herself, but an indication of the divine.

  29. 29.

    Corner Stone

    @Ecks: It basically always comes down to faith. If you invite the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into your heart you can be cleansed of all the things you have done in your life. That’s an end goal. But for those who want to actually follow in the spirit of JC then works must follow.

  31. 31.

    redshirt

    @Davebo:

    What’s wrong with fishing?

    Buddhists fish. Atheists fish.

    Me, I catch. ;0)

    Fishing is fun, though I don’t do it for real because I think it’s cruel. But I don’t judge those that do.

    That said, talking about fishing is always boring except to other obsessed fisher people, which are actually few in number.

  33. 33.

    Mike J

    @Corner Stone:

    But for those who want to actually follow in the spirit of JC then works must follow.

    I thought I’d have to sit around in a bathrobe, watch the Steelers and snurgle various dogs and cats.

  35. 35.

    Corner Stone

    @efgoldman: I think in football parlance it’s fair to say they are getting their collective sockalist ass kicked in the first half.

  37. 37.

    Corner Stone

    @Mike J:

    I thought I’d have to sit around in a bathrobe, watch the Steelers and snurgle various dogs and cats.

    ***Shutters***

    That’s just penury for punishments sake. Even Jesus had Mary Magdelene for company.

  38. 38.

    Ecks

    @Corner Stone: Yes, that’s probably a better description of it.

    There are other Christian traditions, though, that see works as very much key to earning your way to the afterlife.

    I was going to say Catholic is one of those, but they have a pretty mixed bag on it, IIRC. On the one hand, works are pretty important to them, and false piety is a pretty big sin. On the other hand confession and absolution are also critically important – meaning you don’t get to wash away your own sins through Christ, but your local friendly priest does that for you, when you give a proper and true confession. Technically the priest can only do it through the delegated authority of the Pope (via the chain of command down from cardinal to bishop, etc), but we’re way into the minutiae by that point..

  40. 40.

    NotMax

    @raven

    This.

    And cherry-picking through a tome of ancient fables, myths and magic tricks (a book which has also long been used to both foment and justify an incalculable amount of injury, tragedy, venality and death) is also an irrelevant diversion.

  42. 42.

    redshirt

    Does anyone consider the Catholic Church an existing institution of the Roman Empire? And the same question for the Orthodox Church.

  43. 43.

    raven

    @redshirt: Everybody must believe in something, I believe I’ll go fishing. But right now I’m going to bed. Ya’ll get all this bullshit settled will ya?

  44. 44.

    Ecks

    @NotMax: you know, yes, it’s a book that has caused an enormous amount of suffering in the world. But also one that has salved an enormous amount of hurt, and been an incredible support to a lot of people when the world was otherwise a black hold of shit that kept getting pile on them.

    You gotta take the good with the bad. Babies & bathwater, etc.

  46. 46.

    Ecks

    @redshirt: it was briefly incorporated into the Roman empire a long time ago, but that was neither its genesis, nor part of it for most of its history.

  47. 47.

    Corner Stone

    John Cole @Johngcole
    How can we possibly not have a picture of the female shooter yet?

    Maybe one of her in the bathtub with soapy suds?

  48. 48.

    ? Martin

    As to the utility of prayer, the hijackers on 9/11 were praying when they flew their planes into the towers. ISIS prays when they behead hostages.

    I don’t begrudge people their right to pray – it’s a kind gesture when it’s meant kindly and cruel gesture when its meant cruelly. But its just a gesture. It doesn’t accomplish jack shit in the larger world, and it’s a poor substitute for doing your job, for actually helping people, for being a good person. Go watch an ISIS video for proof of that.

  49. 49.

    Ecks

    @raven: Who are we to judge?

    You want to go into the slums and the ghettos and the kitchens of middle class despair, and tell people you are confiscating their support?

    Good luck with that.

  50. 50.

    Suzanne

    @Elie: Word. That’s really why I am comfortable using the term “Christian” to describe myself, because I aim to be Christ-like. And I believe that the Christian life is entirely about service. Whether or not Jesus was divine doesn’t matter to me. Whether or not Jesus is gonna “save” me or anyone else doesn’t change what I have to do in my lifetime. Hell, whether or not there’s a God/s is not even a question that I give a fuck about. Whether the answer is yes or no, my spirituality, such as it is, is entirely focused on what I have to do moving forward from this moment in time.

    Too much of Christian practice is inwardly focused for me. It makes me nuts. The idea of a personal relationship with God is as ludicrous as expecting pigs to tap dance. Like, what? Why?

  51. 51.

    NotMax

    @Ecks

    But also one that has salved an enormous amount of hurt, and been an incredible support to a lot of people when the world was otherwise a black hold of shit that kept getting pile on them.

    Shall turn the floor over to Mr. Spock.

    “So would an ermine violin, but I see no advantage in having one.”

  52. 52.

    Mary G

    My dad was a Jesuit who got excommunicated after he met my mother and after a short series of disastrous jobs (used car sales – lasted 5 hours!) became an Episcopalian minister. He was very big on the praying in the closet, not loudly in public, thing.

    There was a very prominent man, who was a pillar of the community and of the church. These were the days before battered women’s shelters were available, so families would end up in our living room until Dad dried out. His family was there the most often. I woke up to screaming one night and came out to find him at the front door, swearing at the top of his lungs, while my dad tried to reason and pray with him. Behind my dad was my mom, with my dad’s Louisville Slugger bat, doing a great Galdalf “THOU SHALT NOT PASS” imitation. This went on until the neighbors got tired of hearing it and called the cops, who drove him home.

    He was back in the front pew on Sunday. So, I still believe in God and even Jesus, but I never go to church.

  53. 53.

    Ecks

    @? Martin: Oh, but Martin, to the properly fundamentalist mindset, what the other guys are doing isn’t prayer, because it isn’t to the right version of God, so it totally doesn’t count. Only the real true version of the correct faith (i.e., whichever one they personally subscribe to) is correct. And nobody from their group would ever do wrong. And if they did, it wouldn’t be VERY wrong. And if it was very wrong, then they were no true Scotsman to start with.

  56. 56.

    Mary G

    @Mary G: Well, Ajax keeps telling me it fixed my comment – Gandalf, not Galdalf, but then it freezes up and it doesn’t seem to be getting fixed.

  58. 58.

    Sourmash

    In an anniversary review of his blog, our blog host notes that the single best move he ever made was to invite you sir to be a guest blogger. As if more evidence was needed, this proves the wisdom of that choice.

  59. 59.

    NotMax

    @Ecks

    Indoctrinating people to rely on the crutch that things will be assuredly paradisiacal in the “next world” may be the cruelest cut of all.

  60. 60.

    Corner Stone

    @Suzanne:

    The idea of a personal relationship with God is as ludicrous

    Well, yes and no, I guess IMO. To experience His light and His love is a kind of offering that’s very difficult to pass up, I think. And acknowledging a divine presence in the otherwise mundane world around us is a kind of relationship all by itself.

  61. 61.

    Ecks

    @Suzanne: I think it would be fair to say that it’s a type of construction that would be reasonably common within some big strands of Unitarian type thought.

    I think if I ever did have to become officially religious (for whatever reason), Unitarian would be the most obvious natural fit. Partly because they are incredibly flexible in what they will accept (no requirement to believe in God), but partly because of the relative emphasis on goodliness vs. dogmatism. Quakers would also be high on the list, along with some forms of Budhism. If it had to be Catholic, I’d be making a bee line for the Jesuits, and no two ways about it.

  64. 64.

    catclub

    or as some cartoon put it:

    I don’t believe in God, but the God I don’t believe in is a loving God, …

  65. 65.

    Davebo

    @redshirt:

    Fishing is fun, though I don’t do it for real because I think it’s cruel.

    Hey whatever floats your boat! Having grown up on a boat and fished all my life it’s never occurred to me it’s cruel but OK. Although the irony in feeling that catching a fish that is trying to eat another fish is pretty amazing.

    I’d hate to hear your take on killing feral hogs!

  66. 66.

    Suzanne

    @Corner Stone: I feel awe when I think of the natural forces that have produced a universe of amazing beauty and amazing ugliness. I sometimes feel that very keenly. But I don’t feel like there has ever been Something Out There that listens to or answers my prayers, or that has my greater interests in mind. I cannot reconcile this with all of the suffering that exists. So, to me, the idea that there is any God that gives a fuck about me personally or intervenes in my affairs is crazy.

  67. 67.

    Ecks

    @NotMax: It is, but don’t confuse that with Christianity. There are only some strains of it that see the world in those terms. To be fair, they are some of the larger and louder strains, but there are plenty that don’t. And most of them regard the fundamentalist “name it and claim it” or “pie in the sky when you die” forms to be pretty much outright heresy.

    The Christian churches cover an incredibly broad range of beliefs, from the crazy evil hell fire versions, all the way down to some orders that seriously fret about stepping on insects & such. I suspect if you went and hung out with Unitarians or even middle of the road Episcopalians or Presbyterians, you’d be in for a pleasant surprise.

    Judging Christians by the screaming fundamentalist assholes is like judging all Americans by the tea party.

  68. 68.

    catclub

    @Corner Stone: It is also interesting to note that religion (in some manner) is deeply in us. There are bits of the brain that are dedicated to it – poke at them and words about religion and transcendence pop out.

    How did evolution work that out?

  70. 70.

    Ecks

    @Suzanne: Yeah, the problem of evil was always a clincher for me too. There are some dodges around it, but they always seemed to be build from excruciatingly tortured and roundabout logic.

  72. 72.

    Davebo

    Wow! Did they really just say that Coldplay doing the half time show at the Super Bowl is “the world’s biggest music event”?

    I’ve seen better music events at Gruene Hall or the Armadillo World Headquarters.

  73. 73.

    Ecks

    @catclub: Just googled grook. Thanks for that :)

    ” THE ROAD TO WISDOM

    The road to wisdom?—Well, it’s
    plain and simple to express:
    Err
    and err
    and err again,
    but less
    and less
    and less.
    — Piet Hein”

  75. 75.

    Corner Stone

    @Suzanne: I don’t think a personal relationship with God involves Him interacting in someone getting that perfect job or finding that awesome ribeye on sale one day. Or even stopping that drunk from running a light that one evening.
    I personally think we’re all in Hell. IOW in the absence of His light. How else could things like the PP or SB shootings, much less our dedicated bombing in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, South Sudan, Somalia be explained or justified?

  80. 80.

    Mike J

    If they’d had Coldplay do halftime on Thanksgiving, combined with the tryptophan they could have gotten away with not playing the later games while everybody napped.

  81. 81.

    Davebo

    Damn. Now I’m missing seeing SRV at Armadillo World Headquarters.

    Every time I see that crappy brown office building that replaced it I get pissed.

  83. 83.

    Suzanne

    @Corner Stone: I can feel things intensely without them being personal. I don’t believe in a God that communes with individuals or intervenes in human affairs at all.

  84. 84.

    redshirt

    @Davebo:

    Hey whatever floats your boat! Having grown up on a boat and fished all my life it’s never occurred to me it’s cruel but OK. Although the irony in feeling that catching a fish that is trying to eat another fish is pretty amazing.

    I’d hate to hear your take on killing feral hogs!

    All life is precious.

  86. 86.

    dedc79

    Tom, how about some Hillel?

    “If I am not for myself who is for me? And being for my own self, what am ‘I’? And if not now, when?”

    When I get frustrated about politics, about the lack of progress (or the regression), about whether any of it makes a difference, I always come back to this saying.

  89. 89.

    Corner Stone

    @Suzanne: Why would He/She/It? To consider a deity outside time and space is to essentially admit that time is a construct that our tiny little human brains made up because we can’t perceive existence as it happens.
    Anyway, there is not a being who sits outside our existence, watching and judging us. It’s kind of crazy to think a being with ultimate power cares what ants do or think or worship. Why wouldn’t He just pesticide us?
    But for some, there is comfort in a Truman Show existence. Unlike prosperity gospel fundies, I choose to consider that helping real people can actually matter in the real world.

  90. 90.

    Suzanne

    @redshirt: I HATE THAT DAMN YELLOW SONG.

    I think “The Scientist” is a nice song. Willie Nelson’s cover is good.

    Coldplay is music by dudes who don’t know how to pull hair while fucking.

  93. 93.

    dedc79

    This Coldplay news would appear to be the final nail in the coffin for my dream of a Radiohead halftime show where they perform their National Anthem

    Coldplay always struck me as a sappy, less interesting Radiohead. I did like a few of their songs (Yellow, Clocks, Amsterdam)

  101. 101.

    dedc79

    @redshirt: I still remember listening to Sail to the Moon on election night 2004 after it became clear that things were not headed in a good direction.

    Maybe you’ll
    Be president
    But know right from wrong
    Or in the flood
    You’ll build an Ark

  102. 102.

    Suzanne

    @redshirt: I am going to sound elitist here, because I am an elitist. (Caveat: I have both high and low taste, and a strong appreciation for kitsch.) But for the most part, if people I know who have bad taste like something, it will prove to be bad. Coldplay (like Mumford) is loved by a lot of people I know who have bad taste but don’t recognize it and instead think they have great taste.

  104. 104.

    redshirt

    @dedc79: Kid A/Amnesiac/Hail to the Thief were in my heavy rotation from 2000-2007 as I walked to work in Boston. The walk took as long as a CD in my Sony Walkman and they became the soundtrack to my walks.

  109. 109.

    redshirt

    @Suzanne: Hmm.

    I love Coldplay but hate Mumford and Sons and all those other whiny fiddle hipsters.

    Coldplay shouldn’t be lumped in with them. They’re far, far closer to Bush or Oasis or other mid 90’s Brit bands. Not hipster emo whinefests.

  111. 111.

    Suzanne

    @redshirt: Coldplay bore the fuck outta me. Sorry. They take themselves too seriously as Important Musicians and yet are whiny and mediocre, IMHO.

    And the lack of sex appeal is just tragic. Who are all these neutered man-children on my radio?!

    I am currently loving this. THIS is a blast.

  120. 120.

    Suzanne

    @redshirt: No, I love a lot of British music. I am a huge fan of Amy Winehouse, Radiohead, Blur, the Stones, almost all of the major punk acts, Pulp, New Order, the Smiths, Elvis Costello, and on and on I could go. But I don’t like milquetoast. And sex appeal comes through in the music, not merely in looks. Rachel Feinstein has a part in her stand-up act about fucking a guy named Richard—Coldplay is the aural equivalent of Richard.

  125. 125.

    Suzanne

    Unrelated yet important: Words with Friends recognizes “SHIT”, but not “VATO” or “BUTTSEX”.

    What the hell is wrong with this game?!

  127. 127.

    Suzanne

    @redshirt: I love classical music. Big Mahler fan, and Chopin. Rock music should have some sort of sex or danger or passion component, though. It’s inherently more expressionistic and rough than classical or opera or choral music.

  129. 129.

    Corner Stone

    @Suzanne: You’ll notice I didn’t ask for clarification.
    But WTS, I’m just joshing, really. This New Era of Civility ™ is an interesting place.

  134. 134.

    Davebo

    Now I’m regretting bringing up Coldplay as this is far more discussion of them than they deserve.

    Especially in a post about religion.

  139. 139.

    Davebo

    @redshirt:

    Well, if nothing else some people may have googled Armadillo World Headquarters.

    Rednecks and Hippies partying together was kind of cool. Even if it was all about young girls in halter tops.

  141. 141.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @redshirt: Let’s say CS has you pied; he’ll never see your comments. If he doesn’t have you pied and is just fucking with you, you are playing into his hands. Either way, it’s rather stalkerish.

  143. 143.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Omnes Omnibus: And if anyone would recognize stalkerish, it would be you. For the record, lobbing a c-bomb at me got him a time out before he got unnerving about you.

  146. 146.

    Scapegoat

    Only if you know how to pull hair.

    This thread has taken a most unusual turn (and to think I almost skipped it)…

  152. 152.

    Davebo

    @redshirt: I’m finding it unlikely that I nor anyone else can make you realize anything you haven’t already settled on.

    So by all means, go down to Marble Art Station. Your manly footwear will be appreciated.

  158. 158.

    Davebo

    @redshirt:

    It was playing on my portable record player. You obviously knew about it so I assumed you heard it.

    Sorry, I assumed you had a broad background in music. You didn’t get the reference so I must have been wrong.

    But you’ll always have Creed and Coldplay right?

  161. 161.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Steeplejack (tablet): The bomb was sort of the least of the unnerving part of that dude. But as Omnes notes, the very revealing part of that was that it was so casually vicious. But his Omnes obsession was always disturbing to me. And I’m not especially easily disturbed (perturbed, sure).

  162. 162.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Suzanne: You need to ask that? Perhaps you should share more and get it back on track.

    Seriously, I hope the kiddo feels better. I’m sorry she’s sick.

  174. 174.

    Davebo

    @Suzanne:

    Supposedly this could possibly be a BOMBSHELL!! Supposedly, will soon see her picture everywhere!

    But for now it’s just one claim from a nobody website referencing another claim from a nobody website.

    And since Rubio is my 3rd choice for the nomination (Behind Trump and Cruz) I hope it’s just a sad rumor.

  175. 175.

    Suzanne

    @Davebo: I know, right? I’ve seen it circulated around twice in the past day, though. I wasn’t sure if there was anything new other than the last time I heard this rumor.

    You know something, FSM bless Anthony Weiner/Carlos Danger. At least our scandalous douchebags are entertaining.

  176. 176.

    Davebo

    @Suzanne:

    OK, That’s so true. These days, I can’t even decide who I’d prefer to win the GOP nod. But little Marco isn’t exactly a worst case scenario.

  178. 178.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Suzanne: Yeah, just saw a tweet by Dave Novarro saying that. Never a big STP fan, but I would have liked Scott to have made it through his issues and lived a full life.

  179. 179.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: Talk about a band who was the antithesis of Coldplay. I saw STP live once, and it was all rawness, sweat, sexiness, etc. It was a blast.

    I loved STP as a teenager, and I’d hoped that Scott Weiland would get his shit together. Sad.

  180. 180.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Suzanne: I thought they were always a second tier band from their time and place. Well behind Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but Scott was talented and troubled. My guess is that his troubles finally won. Sad.

  181. 181.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Tom, thank you.

    So righteous, so on target, so absolutely appropriate.

    I’ve had it with these shitheads who mumble about prayer and take campaign contributions form the NRA and their masters, the merchants of death.

  182. 182.

    moderateindy

    One big problem I have with all the Abrahamic religions is the complete, and utter absurdity behind one of the basic tenets. Forget, for the moment, the fundies that believe in silliness like Noah, and consider that even moderate, and liberal christians believe this….The idea that an all knowing, all seeing god decided that it was a good idea to “choose” a tiny tribe of people that made up what, maybe 1/10th of 1 percent of the planets population, and they were the only people he revealed his grace, and wisdom to, that is until his son, (which is also him) decided suddenly that everyone should know about him/ them. This is about as ridiculous a premise as you get.
    At what point did he decide his approach was wrong? If he knows everything that was, and will be, and is infallable why would a just, and loving supreme being so callously condemn nearly every human being on the planet to eternal damnation? That is, right up until he changes his mind, and wants everyone to know about, and worship him.
    And isn’t the Hebrew religion one of the most tribalistic, narcissistic, and bigoted religions of all time. After all they think that among the entire population god chose and favors only them.
    Sure maybe I’m going to hell, but I like to believe not in John’s book of revelations, but Peters. Which while a more popular version of revelations in the early Xtian church was omitted from the bible during the canonization process. In Peter’s version, after Jesus comes back, everyone is cleansed by his grace, and eventually joins him in heaven, Can’t imagine why the powers that be didn’t want to include that particular book.
    Also, the next time a fundie claims that the bible is the one true word of god just say OK then ask him; which one of the dozens upon dozens of translations, and versions is the true one?

  183. 183.

    Sherparick

    @Roger Moore: I am an estranged (the Pedophile Protection Association thingie) Roman Catholic who oscillates between belief and disbelief at 60 cycles per minute. What always puzzles me is how “sure” these people (fundies and New Atheists) are that they know God’s mind and intent (if there is one) or that there is not one.

    More familiar with the New Testament then old. I note that through it Jesus is telling stories, preaching, and dropping ironic bon mots that the people running Jewish society in the First Century were fools and hypocrites. He asserted that as they went about saying very publicly that they were more righteous then thou, because their faith was without action and selfish (“narcissistic believer” is good technical phrase for it), it was “dead” and that something very unpleasant would be their “reward.” You would think the current generation of of “more righteous then now” Evangelicals and More Roman Catholic then the Pope would catch the hint.

    If you are interested in seeing Justice Scalia fisted for his rabid homophobia and judicial madness, one needs to check out Judge Richard Posner’s latest piece. I would love to invite these two to the same dinner; the fireworks would be amazing. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/opinion/justice-scalias-majoritarian-theocracy.html?_r=0

  184. 184.

    dedc79

    @moderateindy: your take on the Hebrew religion is not at all accurate and, I’m sure unintentionally, veers very close to some long standing anti semitic tropes.

  186. 186.

    maurinsky

    @Mary G:

    I’m the opposite. I’m an atheist who sometimes goes to church more than once a week because they pay me money to sing. And we sing the good stuff, not the crappy folk music (not to dismiss all folk music as crappy, but in the Venn diagram of crappy folk music and Catholic folk music, it’s just about a circle).

    I cantor and am a paid section leader in a Catholic church choir. It has been interesting to see the change since Francis came on board in the pews and from the pulpit – the homilies have gotten kinder and more inclusive (although the priest at this church was inclined this way to begin with). Our choir practice actually includes prayer time – people bring up people they know or world issues that they would like people to pray for, and then the believers pray. I think it makes the pray-er feel better, although I don’t think it does anything at all beyond that (maybe the person being prayed for has asked for prayers so it makes them feel better, too?)

    I am addicted the filthy lucre, otherwise I’d give up church in a heartbeat!

  187. 187.

    maurinsky

    RE: Coldplay – boring songs with semi-cool arrangement and instrumentation. But overall, boring.

    If there is a God gene, I don’t have it, I was skeptical the first time I heard the story of Adam & Eve, because I lived on a farm and had younger siblings, and I know that you don’t make people out of men’s ribs, unless it’s a metaphor for a penis, but you can’t impregnate mud, either.

    I do think that the story of Adam & Eve (once past the creation of Eve, which is quite plainly ridiculous) is a pretty good archetypal story of human development, though. You start of naked and happy, you hit puberty and become ashamed of your body, and then you’re an adult and life is hard.

    There are so many internal contradictions in the Bible, and the whole ANGRY GOD but I love you thing is just training people to take abuse from authorities, IMO.

    It’s not for me.

  188. 188.

    moderateindy

    @dedc79: I have no problem with the Jews, save for their undo influence over our foreign policy.
    But as a religion, how do you not think that calling yourself the Chosen ones isn’t narcissistic, and prone to profound tribalism and bigotry? While the jews are fairly tribal, I don’t feel they are at all bigots, in fact quite the opposite. I’m just saying that a religion based on God favoring your people above everyone else certainly has a foundation set up for bigotry, and narcissim, as well as tribalism.

  189. 189.

    EthylEster

    TL wrote:

    But oh, my friends, and ah, my foes, that music!

    I assume you meant the music of the KJV language. Yes. I was raised Southern Baptist (ugh) but the best thing about that wacko sect is their obsession with quoting scripture. And it was always the KJV when I was growing up so I got to hear lots of its beautiful language at every service. I imagine less educated S Baptists believe that the KJV version was the original dictated by God.

    KJV and Shakespeare remind us of how splendid Elizabethan English is!

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