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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.

Come on, man.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Second rate reporter says what?

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

In my day, never was longer.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

“But what about the lurkers?”

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

I was promised a recession.

Let there be snark.

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: REPUBS IN DISARRAY!!!

Open Thread: REPUBS IN DISARRAY!!!

by Anne Laurie|  December 21, 20159:03 pm| 114 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Open Threads, Republicans in Disarray!, Assholes, Good News For Conservatives

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Will the GOP Mount a Third-Party Challenge to Trump? https://t.co/NybBdu0wkM

— Charlie Tapp (@charleswtapp) December 20, 2015

Spoiler: Nope.

Bubbly BothSider Jeff Greenfield, “five-time Emmy-winning network television analyst”:

… The most striking examples of party fissure in American politics have come when a party broke with a long pattern of accommodating different factions and moved decisively toward one side. It has happened with the Democrats twice, both over civil rights. The party had long embraced the cause of civil rights in the North while welcoming segregationists—and white supremacists—from across the South. In 1948, the party’s embrace of a stronger civil rights plank led Southern delegations to walk out of the convention… Twenty years later, Alabama Governor George Wallace led a similar anti-civil-rights third party movement that won five Southern states. A relatively small shift of voters in California would have deadlocked that election and thrown it to the House of Representatives.

In two other cases, a dramatic shift in intraparty power led to significant defections on the losing side. In 1964, when Republican conservatives succeeded in nominating a divisive champion of their cause in Barry Goldwater, liberal Republicans (there were such things back then) like New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller, Michigan Governor George Romney and others refused to endorse the nominee. More shockingly, the New York Herald-Tribune, the semi-official voice of the GOP establishment, endorsed Lyndon Johnson—the first Democrat it had supported, ever. With his party split, Goldwater went down in flames. Eight years later, when a deeply divided Democratic Party nominated anti-war hero George McGovern, George Meany led the AFL-CIO to a position of neutrality between McGovern and Richard Nixon—the first time labor had refused to back a Democrat for president. Prominent Democrats like former Texas Governor John Connally openly backed Nixon, while countless others, disempowered by the emergence of “new Democrats,” simply sat on their hands. The divided Democrats lost in a landslide…

… [I]n 1991… former Klansman David Duke made it into the gubernatorial runoff in Louisiana. While he proclaimed himself a Republican, he was roundly rejected by the party at every level—the outgoing GOP governor endorsed former Governor Edwin Edwards—and Duke lost overwhelmingly to Edwards. (It’s a campaign best remembered for the bumper sticker touting the ethically challenged Edwards: “Vote for the crook—it’s important.”)…

In other words, once there were politicians who were willing to lose, for their principles. Not seeing the current Repub primary candidates who have any principles, beyond, “What’s in it for me?”

… If you want to see the most sulfurous assaults on Trump, don’t look to the editorial pages of the New York Times or the comments of MSNBC personalities; look instead to the most prominent media voices in the conservative world: National Review, The Weekly Standard, Commentary and the columns of George Will and others…

But it’s more, much more than policy that has stirred the ire on the right: It’s the vulgarity, the fusion of ignorance and arrogance, the narcissism, the dissembling on matters great and small. The composite portrait of Trump painted by these outlets—leavened only by a grudging acknowledgment that he’s touched on legitimate concerns about immigration and terror—makes the idea of handing over the nuclear codes to Trump unsettling. And it makes the idea of embracing him as the alternative to Hillary Clinton somewhere between a reach and a lunge.

What a Trump nomination represents, then, is a victory that leaves significant slices of the party unwilling or unable to accept the outcome. Whether he’s seen as an ideological heretic for his views on trade, taxes and government power or as a demagogue whose clownish bluster and casual bigotry make him temperamentally unfit for office, the odds on massive defections are very high…

Yeah, the supporting members of the party that’s become synonymous with xenophobia, racism, and kleptocracy are gonna sacrifice their sweet gigs — because, ugh, That Guy, with his endless free media and stadia full of cheering supporters and renowned long memory for anyone who crosses him. Greenfield trolls a bunch of Permanent Republican Party insiders, looking for names of sacrificial lambs who might be willing to abort their existing careers to run on a third-party ticket. Apparently the concept also excites people like former Reagan/Bush campaigner Dan Schnur (“now an independent”), Romney strategist Stu Stevens, and Rob Stutzman (“he helped spearhead the 2003 recall that put Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Governor’s Mansion”) — all men who don’t seem to be involved in this year’s campaigns. Funny thing, that.

Interesting, but omits any theory of who would be the candidate. I'm not sure there's anyone suitable and willing. https://t.co/wvbeAZUmqZ

— Josh Barro (@jbarro) December 20, 2015

It's worth noting that, as of now, GOP "outsiders" have consolidated their support to Trump & Cruz while the "establishment" is fragmented.

— Daniel Drezner (@dandrezner) December 21, 2015

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Reader Interactions

114Comments

  1. 1.

    Felonius Monk

    December 21, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    I’m confused. Is this or is this not good news for John McCain?

    BTW, what I read earlier about Graham is that he is suspending his campaign. Does this mean he might reinstate it at a later date when even fewer people would be interested?

  2. 2.

    east is east

    December 21, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    Anne Laurie delivers proof of life at Balloon Juice headquarters.

  3. 3.

    raven

    December 21, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    @Felonius Monk: It means it’s bullshit.

  4. 4.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 21, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    @Felonius Monk: Everybody “suspends.” I think it’s an accounting gimmick.

  5. 5.

    Felonius Monk

    December 21, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    @raven:

    It means it’s bullshit.

    But, isn’t everything said by rethugs bullshit?

  6. 6.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    December 21, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @Felonius Monk: I think first he gave it detention. Then after suspension, next comes expelling it.

    They must have thought the middle school playground brawl resemblance was not quite strong enough yet.

  7. 7.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    This.

    As long as the campaign is suspended the not-a-candidate can keep his/her books open and raise money.

  8. 8.

    Bobby D

    December 21, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    At this rate, I will be a wealthy man by the first primary. Invested in popcorn futures early, you see.

    They don’t have anyone. That’s why I always laughed when the media clowns were bleating on about the “deep bench” of the GOP.

  9. 9.

    raven

    December 21, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    @Felonius Monk: Ding!

  10. 10.

    Felonius Monk

    December 21, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I think it’s an accounting gimmick.

    I get it. If he suspends, he can string his investors along indefinitely; but if he cancels, he likely on the hook to pay them back.

  11. 11.

    Mike J

    December 21, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    In other words, once there were politicians who were willing to lose, for their principles. Not seeing the current Repub primary candidates who have any principles, beyond, “What’s in it for me?”

    John Warner, Republican from Virginia, refused to endorse Ollie North and instead backed a republican running as an independent. Marshall picked off enough votes to get Chuck Robb, the Democrat, elected. It also didn’t hurt that Nancy Reagan said on election eve that North had lied to Ronnie.

  12. 12.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    It’s the vulgarity, the fusion of ignorance and arrogance, the narcissism, the dissembling on matters great and small.

    That’s a long way around the barn. Why not write “Conservative Republican?” Says the same and saves sixteen words.

  13. 13.

    east is east

    December 21, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    Balloon Juice regrets to inform it’s commenting division has been absorbed by Christmas.

  14. 14.

    Mike J

    December 21, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Everybody “suspends.” I think it’s an accounting gimmick.

    The FEC has no category for “suspended.” Run or run not, there is no suspended.

    Basically they can legally move the campaign funds around, but they aren’t go go actually go out and campaign for office any more. They may still raise cash to pay off debts (although republican campaigns usually just make sure senior staff get paid and stiff the vendors.)

  15. 15.

    Mike J

    December 21, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    @east is east:

    Balloon Juice regrets to inform it’s commenting division has been absorbed by Christmas.

    For boxing day there should be front page posts from the trolls while the front pagers post 2000 word incoherent screeds in the comments.

  16. 16.

    Anne Laurie

    December 21, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    @east is east: You may want to either put down the adult beverage / intoxicant, or step away from the keyboard for a bit…

  17. 17.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    December 21, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    I would think these centrist types would love it if things splintered as much as possible. Then when Republicans did something totally insane they could stroke their chins and say “Well, you know all six sides do it…”

  18. 18.

    Mike G

    December 21, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    But it’s more, much more than policy that has stirred the ire on the right: It’s the vulgarity, the fusion of ignorance and arrogance, the narcissism, the dissembling on matters great and small.

    The Bush Maladministration featured all of these things in sickening quantities and the right loved it. Not to mention they enthusiastically gorge on the round the clock buffet of intellectual vomit that is Fox News.
    They hate that Trump isn’t a malleable member of their entitled little insiders club.

  19. 19.

    JPL

    December 21, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    @east is east: lol.. I am watching some show on ABC about extreme Christmas lights. If they really wanted to entertain the kids, maybe take the money and give it to a boys and girls club. just sayin

    also too, most of the money is going to power companies.

  20. 20.

    Felonius Monk

    December 21, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    @Mike G:

    intellectual anti-intellectual vomit on Fox News.

    Fixed it.

  21. 21.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 21, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    @Bobby D: I’ve heard folk here bemoaning that the Dems don’t have a “deep bench” like the Thugs.

  22. 22.

    raven

    December 21, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    @efgoldman: You Have to See These Photos of Mongolian Men Hunting With Eagles

  23. 23.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 21, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    @east is east: I WILL NOT LET THIS STAND! I will now join the War on Christmas™.

    (Puts on black, “Bah Humbug” Santa hat.)

  24. 24.

    redshirt

    December 21, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    Baghdad Santa says the North Pole is free of atheists.

  25. 25.

    Amir Khalid

    December 21, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    @Bobby D:
    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    The Republicans have a crowded bench for 2016, whereas the Democrats have just Hillary and Bernie. But if you looked at the Republican players, it was always obvious that none of them had any depth.

  26. 26.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 21, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    SpaceX just managed to land the first stage on a satellite launch (this is the full webcast; around 41:40 is when it comes down).

  27. 27.

    RaflW

    December 21, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    To call Jeff Greenfield a hack would be to engage in flattery. And he doesn’t merit even that.

  28. 28.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    What is happening with the War on the War on Christmas? For that matter, what the heck is O’Reilly up to these days?

    On second thought, never mind. I don’t care.

  29. 29.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 21, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    @raven: That’s really something, thanks.

  30. 30.

    Mary G

    December 21, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    Somewhere in Utah, New Hampshire, La Jolla or other undisclosed location, Mitt Romney has his hand in the air and is jumping up and down yelling “”Pick me! Pick me to save the party!”

  31. 31.

    RaflW

    December 21, 2015 at 9:44 pm

    @Felonius Monk: It’s not even about refunding anyone who gave. Once a donation is made, it’s done (unless it turns out to be illegal funds, campaigns do manage to refund those).
    Its that most of these penny-ante campaigns have debts, typically vendor invoices pending.
    Suspending your campaign means you can go do the rubber chicken circuit as a campaign and try to lure enough marks to pay the ad man and the pollster, etc…

  32. 32.

    Punchy

    December 21, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    Who would Trump name as his running mate? He’s a strict adherent of Cleek’s, so Im guessing either the Nuge or Hannity….

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 21, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    @Anoniminous: War on Christmas? Jeb! won it

    Hunter WalkerVerified account
    ‏@ hunterw
    Woman to Jeb: “Thank you for saying ‘Merry Christmas.’ If you were a radical Muslim you wouldn’t say that.” Jeb: “That’s for sure.

  34. 34.

    raven

    December 21, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: It got me to thinking about Dersu Uzala and it turn out is it on Amazon on demand!

  35. 35.

    raven

    December 21, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    @efgoldman: Ooo, dang.

  36. 36.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    @RaflW:

    It’s not even about refunding anyone who gave.

    A politician? Refund MONEY?

    Did you just arrive in your spaceship from an alien civilization?

  37. 37.

    lamh36

    December 21, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    “Schlonged”: Watch Donald Trump’s astonishingly sexist new attack on Hillary Clinton

    I mean…really…REALLY!

  38. 38.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 21, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: People looking for something to be offended by. They’re always the victim.

    In my head, I hear my unsympathetic mother saying, “That should be the worst thing that ever happens to you.” And in this case, it isn’t even happening.

  39. 39.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Maybe that was the HAMMERTIME! I was hearing so much about?

  40. 40.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 21, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    @lamh36: The man has no filter. Or maybe he has one and uses it to snag the most offensive thing so he can be sure to repeat it.

    Seriously. He finds it “offensive” that women pee? And “schlonged”? Words fail me.

  41. 41.

    redshirt

    December 21, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Trump will propose we deport women next, to a huge poll bump.

  42. 42.

    Roger Moore

    December 21, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I will now join the War on Christmas™.

    Do you know any good War on Christmas™ carols?

  43. 43.

    gf120581

    December 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    The reason for the contrast between the “deep” GOP bench on their side of the 2016 race and the Democratic side is pretty simple; they don’t have someone like Hillary on their side. The Democratic race is so sparse because she scared away pretty much everyone who was a potential contender. That’s it.

    Also, if Trump or Cruz is the GOP nominee, there’s no third party contest challenge coming. (If Trump’s not that nominee, however, I could easily see him doing him out of ego alone.) Instead, I expect many GOPers will simply sit out the contest and not vote or really do anything to help their nominee. (Cruz in particular, since so many of his colleagues hate his guts.)

    It is rather amusing, however, to watch them panicking this early over the notion of either of them as the nominee. We’ve already got GOP strategists openly saying that is either of them is the nominee, not only is the Senate lost, but the House majority is in jeopardy. They’ve gone DEFCON 5 and we haven’t had a single primary yet.

  44. 44.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: He has a filter, how’d you think he gets the new Mrs. Trumps?

  45. 45.

    east is east

    December 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    @redshirt: That’s what she said.

  46. 46.

    Punchy

    December 21, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    @Roger Moore: Witchy Woman by The Eagles? Got a Wiccan vibe that seems appropriately non-xtian.

  47. 47.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 21, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    @gf120581: Bob Dole said, that Bob Dole would sleep in too late to vote if Cruz were the nominee.

  48. 48.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 21, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    “Hark, the Herald Tribune sings”

  49. 49.

    amk

    December 21, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    “The man has no filter. ”

    No, the thug has neither class nor decency. Let’s not let him off so easy.

  50. 50.

    redshirt

    December 21, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    @Anoniminous: Don’t you hate when a girl asks “Was that Hammer Time?”

  51. 51.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    December 21, 2015 at 10:08 pm

    @Felonius Monk: This reminds me of how the last Emperor of Austro-Hungary never officially abdicated. Charles I of Ausrtria actually had a half-assed attempt or two at letting his former subjects “demand” his restoration to the throne.

    Don’t hold your breath, Lindsey. They’ll stay away in droves from your cause too.

  52. 52.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 21, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    I made paintings!

    http://imgur.com/gallery/uISTv

  53. 53.

    Jeffro

    December 21, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    Drezner has it right: while GOP politicians and their strategists (I’m lookin’ at you Frank Luntz) were busy trying to figure out how to stroke the rubes into ever higher stratospheres of outrage, the rubes eventually became all that was left of the GOP. I guess the Establishment forgot that Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck get paid no matter who’s in power…as long as their listeners are properly WORKED. UP.

    Or shorter: the ‘outsiders’ are now the insiders and are in charge; the ‘insiders’ are the new outsiders, looking in, afraid to do the right thing.

  54. 54.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I prefer the classics.

    @redshirt:

    Ain’t going there, no how, no way.

    :-)

  55. 55.

    Amir Khalid

    December 21, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I have absolutely no problem wishing people a merry Christmas. (But then, I’m not a radical Muslim.) So, to all a Merry Christmas, Selamat Hari Natal, fröhliche Weihnachten, joyeux Noël, feliz Navidad.

  56. 56.

    Oldgold

    December 21, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    MSNBC is horrible. All night labeling what Clinton said snot Trump as a “lie.”
    What a crock of crapola.

  57. 57.

    James E Powell

    December 21, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    Does Greenfield (or anyone else) have a theory that explains John Anderson in 1980?

  58. 58.

    Redshift

    December 21, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    @amk:

    No, the thug has neither class nor decency. Let’s not let him off so easy.

    Exactly. A filter is what separates a brazen asshole from one who’s trying but to give himself away. What separates them from decent people is that we don’t have thoughts like that, not that we don’t say them out loud.

  59. 59.

    gogol's wife

    December 21, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    С Рождеством! And wesołych świąt!

  60. 60.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    @Anoniminous:

    Try this.

    (Thanks to efgoldman.)

  61. 61.

    lamh36

    December 21, 2015 at 10:23 pm

    Damn!

    This is my queue to go to bed early tonight…

    @abc13houston 25m25 minutes ago
    #BREAKING: Grand jury refuses to indict anyone in connection with Sandra Bland’s death #abc13

  62. 62.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 21, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    It’s the vulgarity, the fusion of ignorance and arrogance, the narcissism, the dissembling on matters great and small.

    It’s that his vulgarity reveals how bad everything they stand for is. Trump is making it hard for them to maintain their fig leaf of public ‘We’re not racist, lying, violence-obsessed, pants-wetting, meanspirited, ignorant shits, we’re…’ reputation.

  63. 63.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 21, 2015 at 10:26 pm

    @Amir Khalid: You forgot С Рождеством! or З Різдвом Христовим! But you still have a couple of weeks to work on that before the Julian Christmas.

  64. 64.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    @lamh36:

    It never fucking ends does it?

  65. 65.

    danielx

    December 21, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    … If you want to see the most sulfurous assaults on Trump, don’t look to the editorial pages of the New York Times or the comments of MSNBC personalities; look instead to the most prominent media voices in the conservative world: National Review, The Weekly Standard, Commentary and the columns of George Will and others…

    And the worst part of all? From what I’ve been able to discern, Trump ignores them for the most part. Which would totally be the cruelest cut of all, if you happen to be a Villager of the conservative strain who is used to being listened to and completely unaccustomed to being ignored. Worse yet, ridiculed – if I recall correctly Il Douche said he was going to have a vitriol-dripping George Will column framed and hung on his office wall.

  66. 66.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 21, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    @raven:

    Can’t remember if I mentioned this earlier or not, but I was very taken with that photo essay and sent it on FB to a friend of mine and his wife. He is a former colleague of mine — was the Canadian Senior Trade Commissioner in Atlanta — had one or two additional foreign postings, each of them a slightly more elevated position — then was named Canada’s Ambassador to Mongolia. Well, he and his wife and their daughter absolutely fell in love with the country and its people and their culture. I’ve never seen anything like it. After he retires, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the family decided to move to Mongolia, they love it that much. Wonderful photos in that piece, and a fascinating story.

  67. 67.

    lamh36

    December 21, 2015 at 10:36 pm

    @Anoniminous: Never does…and still waiting to hear ANYTHING on Tamir Rice…that one will hit hardest….if history repeats itself…with these things…

    I am prepared to take a me day after news come out.

    At this point, I’ve only got Karma to believe…I guess…but shit Karma takes longer than the justice system…

    Hell Zimmerman is still alive living relatively well enough…smh

    Ugh…

  68. 68.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 21, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    @danielx:
    That’s a good point. Trump has added insult to injury. Not only is he pulling off their mask, he’s destroying their sense of being the godlike sages who rule conservatism. I’m amazed O’Reilly hasn’t had apoplexy.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    December 21, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    So apparently a 4-rib roast costs about $100 in LA no matter what. Oh well. I did buy it from Costco, so at least I spent my money at the store that treats its employees like human beings.

  70. 70.

    max

    December 21, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    @lamh36: #BREAKING: Grand jury refuses to indict anyone in connection with Sandra Bland’s death #abc13

    I was going to post that.

    This summer, trooper Brian Encinia pulled Bland over for a traffic stop. The situation quickly escalated. Bland was arrested and housed in the Waller County jail. 3 days later, she was found dead inside a jail cell. Investigators said she hanged herself, but family members say they believe there’s more to the story.

    Grand jurors spent all Monday with special prosecutors, pouring over evidence. They looked at Bland’s traffic stop, her arrest and time spent in jail. Special prosecutors made no recommendations, just presented information. Out of all of that, the grand jury cleared jail employees of criminal wrongdoing and did not return an indictment related to Bland’s death.

    Ah, the classic, ‘we’re just presenting information’ tactic.

    It’s not the cases where they can’t quite get past the hurdle of reasonable doubt, it’s all the cases buried in grand juries where the sausage really gets ground.

    max
    [‘But this crazy woman from the suburbs said she communicated with Bland after her death and determined that she hung herself to cast blame on the police.’]

  71. 71.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 21, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    Call off the Democratic primaries, Bernie’s going to win, Bill Kristol says so.

    (IOW Hillary should start planing her victory party.)

  72. 72.

    jl

    December 21, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    I’ve seen snippets of the establishment GOP’s ‘sulfurous’ assaults on Trump here and at other places on the intertubes. I still don’t see how he is all that different from any of the others. Just lays on the schtick heavier and at a higher volume.

    But, if they want to get all panicky and go out of their way to destroy themselves in next year’s election, I won’t say anything that might give them second thoughts about it.

  73. 73.

    Amir Khalid

    December 21, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    Oh noes. Bernie is doomed.

  74. 74.

    jl

    December 21, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    ” Call off the Democratic primaries, Bernie’s going to win, Bill Kristol says so. ”

    Aw crap. I just threw Bernie another twenty. I’m really a mega-donor now. Damn near a hundred bucks.
    Since I am a mega-donor, I will email the campaign and tell the old coot to quit and go home.

  75. 75.

    Jeffro

    December 21, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    @efgoldman: Um, the Cruz campaign (and at moments, the Trump campaign) would disagree with you about their organizational abilities. Cruz unfortunately has a very solid grasp of his party’s current state and what motivates its base.

  76. 76.

    danielx

    December 21, 2015 at 10:54 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    At this point one does have to wonder how often Bloody Bill is trolling when he comes out with one of these pronouncements.

    No, forget that shit, I don’t think Kristol possesses the necessary self awareness or sense of irony. Yep, Hillary should be stocking he champagne now.

  77. 77.

    east is east

    December 21, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Damn it. The Kristol is always wrong. This is very bad news.

  78. 78.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 21, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    @jl:
    Be nice about it. He’s been a worthy and respectable candidate and person, and he didn’t ask for Kristol’s endorsement. He’s received the kiss of death, so it might s well *be* a kiss.

  79. 79.

    jl

    December 21, 2015 at 10:59 pm

    @Jeffro: I saw some news stories saying that Trump’s big spending on the ground games in Iowa and NH hasn’t produced much.

    To me, Trump’s sustained popularity among GOP voters is disturbing, but I am encouraged that he is still unacceptable to enough general election voters to make him one of easier GOPers to beat (unless something unexpected happens).

    But as for his viability as a real GOP contender, the real test will come after a caucus and a primary in states where he has a big lead. Will the big lead in polling lead to a big turnout?

    From what I have seen in interviews of Trump supporters, Trump might need a really big and robust ground operation. I wonder how many of his supporters understand the process well enough to know that they have to show up and do something to get him nominated. I mean, the thinking-something-makes-it-so attitude has its limits in the meat space of real world events.

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    December 21, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    @lamh36:

    And this is where all of this shite really gets to me. EVEN IF she really did commit suicide, shouldn’t someone at the jail face some kind of discipline for not following protocol and checking on her?

    Juries have made being a crappy cop completely risk-free. You can do almost anything you want on the job and you will never have to face any kind of discipline or court case. Ever.

  81. 81.

    danielx

    December 21, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    They have nothing that Trump needs – neither money, nor staff, nor yet sage counsel. If there is anything in this uncertain world of which I am tolerably certain, it’s that for Villagers of any bent, not being needed in any way, shape or form hurts worst of all. If Inscribe Puree – er, Reince Priebus, Reince Priebus! – isn’t a standing joke among Trump’s campaign staff by now, he ought to be.

  82. 82.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 21, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    @efgoldman: The German industrialists and the Junkers thought they could control the monster they created…Hitler. They were wrong.

  83. 83.

    east is east

    December 21, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yeah, Trump is on a roll and they can’t stop him. Of course the people need to cast their votes, but it’s looking good for this little Mussolini.

  84. 84.

    jl

    December 21, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    ” Be nice about it. ”

    What’s the fun in that? Were the Koch’s nice to Walker? Did they even send him a box of hot rolls and ham or anything? I thought they just informed him his political product was defective and to drop out, and wait for more instructions to continue to eff up Wisconsin.

    “Sanders, your political product is defective. Get your ass out of the race. Look for the jelly of the month club packages in the mail.”

  85. 85.

    mclaren

    December 21, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    “…The vulgarity, the fusion of ignorance and arrogance, the narcissim, the dissembling on matters big and small…”
    I’m confused.
    Are they talking about Richard Nixon?
    Ronald Reagan?
    George W. Bush?
    John McCain?
    Mitt Romney?
    Every Republican presidential candidate for the last 45 years fits this descriotion.

  86. 86.

    MomSense

    December 21, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    @redshirt:

    If Trump wins I will self deport.

  87. 87.

    danielx

    December 21, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Sort of makes you wonder when Trump will come up with his very own Schutzstaffel, don’t it now? Suitably and tastefully attired in khakis and French blue button downs, of course; none of that tacky black with lightning bolts and such.

    And I gotta say – German industrialists and the Prussian military caste were quite content to go along with Hitler until he started losing. The industrialists produced all the new toys Hitler promised to the German officer class, and the officers went right along with it, up to and including giving an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler’s person, as opposed to the German state. If they’d resigned instead…

  88. 88.

    MomSense

    December 21, 2015 at 11:16 pm

    @lamh36:

    It’s infuriating.

  89. 89.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 21, 2015 at 11:20 pm

    @efgoldman:
    White America (I can’t speak for minorities) has bent over BACKWARDS to allow any excuse other than racism, to give Republicans every benefit of the doubt. It helped a lot that the national media is more desperate to pretend racism is dead and Republicans are reasonable than anyone else. But… well, Trump is so damn rude about it. It’s stretching their ability to pretend with descriptions like ‘anti-establishment sentiment’ to the breaking point.

  90. 90.

    sacrablue

    December 21, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne: You should have driven up to Sacramento. You could get one for $7.99 per pound.

  91. 91.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 21, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne: This isn’t on the grand jury. This is on the special prosecutor. There was an indictment to be had here if the special prosecutor had wanted one.

  92. 92.

    RaflW

    December 21, 2015 at 11:28 pm

    @Anoniminous: I was just responding to the comment upthread “he likely on the hook to pay them back.”

  93. 93.

    Chris

    December 21, 2015 at 11:31 pm

    Will the GOP Mount a Third-Party Challenge to Trump?

    Of course not, which is one of the many reasons I find “serious” Republicans wringing their hands at Trump and comparing him to Obama and Clinton to be full of crap. At the end of the day, if he wins the nomination, almost all of them will obediently line up to vote for him, because Liberals Are Worse.

    Now, would Trump mount a third party challenge if he doesn’t win… that’s a lot more plausible.

  94. 94.

    danielx

    December 21, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Would you trade the human anagram straight up for Debbie Wasserman Schulz, straight up, no cash considerations, no draft choices, no asshole to be named later?

    Have to think about that for a while…..

    Yes. Not that there’s much of a choice between the two.

  95. 95.

    NotMax

    December 21, 2015 at 11:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne

    A 4-rib roast should weigh in at somewhere around 10 lb. At $7.99/lb., that would be about eighty bucks. So if you got one that size and paid $100, console yourself that it was a hit for only an extra $20.

  96. 96.

    Chris

    December 21, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Thing is, liberals see the media’s “racism is dead and we must give Republicans the benefit of the doubt” mantra as the MSM excusing the GOP and white racism (which it is). But the angry right wing base sees it as evidence of the MSM’s liberal bias, because they’re assuming that the racism needs to be excused in the first place.

    For example, when Republicans propose that we impose a ban on Syrian/Iraqi refugees, “reasonable” pundits hasten to assure us that it’s not because they’re Muslim, using all the appropriate buzzwords and dogwhistles and reassuring us that it’s only temporary until we can sort out a better immigration system. But the enraged right wing base just sees that and screams “OF COURSE it’s because they’re Muslim! And it BETTER not be temporary! You politically correct liberally biased appeasers!”

  97. 97.

    David Koch

    December 21, 2015 at 11:49 pm

    GOP establishment hated Goldwater.

    “Barry Goldwater’s positions spell disaster for the party and the country” ~ Nelson Rockefeller

    “Goldwaterism is a crazy quilt collection of absurd and dangerous positions” ~ Gov Scranton (R-PA)

    “Goldwater will lead to the suicidal destruction of the Republican party” ~ George Romney

    They didn’t run 3rd party. And today’s republicans also wont cuz they stoopidly think they can inherit his voters in the future.

    Why just today ¿Jeb ? was pathetically defending Trump against Hillary.

  98. 98.

    Anoniminous

    December 21, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    @RaflW:

    Just joking around.

  99. 99.

    gratuitous

    December 22, 2015 at 12:04 am

    @Roger Moore: This, and only this:

    https://youtu.be/qTx-sdR6Yzk

  100. 100.

    jl

    December 22, 2015 at 12:15 am

    @efgoldman: If Trump cannot get his fans to polls, he can’t win. We will see. The News stories I saw say (sorry, have to run so no time to find links) he blew a huge pile on ground organization in Iowa and NH and has like one tenth the promised district and precinct (whatever they are called) personnel or organizations in place. Sounds like a mess to me.

  101. 101.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 22, 2015 at 12:19 am

    @gratuitous: I enjoyed that.

  102. 102.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 22, 2015 at 12:25 am

    @jl:
    That will definitely be the key. Romney’s opponents lost because none of them had ground game. One dumbass beat a bunch of clowns because he at least could find the finish line.

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 22, 2015 at 12:26 am

    @Mnemosyne: Are you willing to pay for me to dry ice it and ship it to you? The Greenwise organic is 8.99 a pound and the USDA choice is 6.99 a pound?

  104. 104.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 22, 2015 at 12:31 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: I am still surprised that Romney got past the getting the bra off the debutante phase.

  105. 105.

    Jerzy Russian

    December 22, 2015 at 12:35 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: What is Mr. Kristol one day said “I am always wrong”? Given that what he says is always wrong, that statement would imply that he is at least sometimes right, which, in turn, violates the axiom that he is always wrong. He could get stuck in an endless loop if that were to happen.

  106. 106.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 22, 2015 at 12:38 am

    @Jerzy Russian: I would welcome that if it would shut him up.

  107. 107.

    John Revolta

    December 22, 2015 at 1:05 am

    @Jerzy Russian: Everything you say is a lie.

  108. 108.

    BubbaDave

    December 22, 2015 at 1:49 am

    @Mike J:
    Of course, Doug Wilder, former Democratic governor (and first Black governor elected in the South) ran as an independent candidate as well (but dropped out before Election Day), so it got very very interesting for a poli sci nerd.

    I was living in Norfolk at the time, and our parish priest joked from the pulpit, “I normally would never tell you how to vote, but I believe it’s important that you vote for the Episcopalian former Marine.” North, Coleman, and Robb all fit that description, of course.

  109. 109.

    Zinsky

    December 22, 2015 at 5:32 am

    Trump has not only degraded our national debate – he has degraded our national dialogue, as well. I can’t believe we are talking about the etymological roots of the word “schlonged”, in public! Sheesh!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/22/donald-trumps-schlonged-a-linguistic-investigation/

  110. 110.

    qwerty42

    December 22, 2015 at 6:57 am

    @ThresherK (GPad):

    This reminds me of how the last Emperor of Austro-Hungary never officially abdicated. Charles I of Ausrtria actually had a half-assed attempt or two at letting his former subjects “demand” his restoration to the throne. …

    Hungary was ruled by the “Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary”, Admiral Miklos Horthy. After rejecting the Habsburg (Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary), it was a kingdom without a king, ruled by an admiral without a navy. I have not gotten to mention that since … geeze, a long time (surprising how seldom that comes up).

  111. 111.

    qwerty42

    December 22, 2015 at 7:13 am

    @danielx:

    … and the officers went right along with it, up to and including giving an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler’s person, as opposed to the German state. If they’d resigned instead…

    The term is “Fahnenheid” and was revived by Hitler. It was used in the imperial army. In 1918, the Kaiser had left Berlin for the front. When he asked about the loyalty of the army, specifically mentioning the oath to the colors, the reply was “heute die fahnenheid ist jetzt nur eine idee” … usually translated as “Today oaths are but words”. Another topic that so seldom comes up in IT. (Actually, there may have been some difference between the two, however it really has been a while)

  112. 112.

    evodevo

    December 22, 2015 at 8:17 am

    @efgoldman: I think it was a Harpy Eagle, IIRC

  113. 113.

    Gavin

    December 22, 2015 at 8:34 am

    “It’s the vulgarity, the fusion of ignorance and arrogance, the narcissism, the dissembling on matters great and small.”

    Yes, Trump is indeed the one candidate who fits this description. As opposed to the rest of the (R)’s, right, Jeff?

  114. 114.

    Amir Khalid

    December 22, 2015 at 9:26 am

    @qwerty42:
    A better translation would be: “Nowadays the oath of allegiance is just an idea.”

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