Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Infrastructure week. at last.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Come on, man.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

“But what about the lurkers?”

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

I really should read my own blog.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

All your base are belong to Tunch.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Schadenfreude for Breakfast

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Schadenfreude for Breakfast

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three repubs in a tub toles

(Tom Toles via GoComics.com)
.

And there’s so much of it, right now. Politico reports that “Trump rejects new adviser’s push to make him ‘presidential’”:

… Trump became upset late last week when he learned from media reports that Manafort privately told Republican leaders that the billionaire reality TV star was “projecting an image” for voters and would begin toning down his rhetoric, according to the sources. They said that Trump also expressed concern about Manafort bringing several former lobbying colleagues into the campaign, as first reported by POLITICO.

Now Trump is taking steps to return some authority to Manafort’s chief internal rival, campaign manager Corey Lewandowski.

Neither Lewandowski nor Manafort responded to requests for comment, though Manafort on Sunday during an interview on Fox News blamed Lewandowski’s regime for shortcomings in the campaign’s delegate wrangling operation. Lewandowski’s allies responded by privately questioning whether Manafort has done anything to improve the situation. They grumble that Manafort has spent a disproportionate amount of time on television — just as Trump himself has been avoiding the Sunday morning talk show circuit at Manafort’s urging.

“I think it pisses him off that he was getting free television by going on the shows and now Paul Manafort is out there resurrecting his career,” said one campaign operative. Citing Manafort’s advocacy within the campaign for an expensive advertising push in upcoming states, the operative said Trump is “saying I can get on every show I want for free and you’re telling me not to do that and that I should pay for my advertising? That doesn’t pass the smell test to me.”

The mounting tension comes as Trump is struggling to incorporate traditional political tactics with the cult-of-personality approach that helped him climb from long shot to front-runner for the GOP nomination. In some ways, Manafort and Lewandowski represent the ego and the id of that balance, with the hardscrabble outsider Lewandowski earning Trump’s trust early, only to be challenged by the more polished insider brought in late last month to provide help as Trump’s campaign struggled to secure loyal convention delegates…

************
Anyone wants to take bets on when the Lewandowski/Manafort spat moves beyond the metaphorical pissing matches to an actual fist fight? And has Roger Stone started the betting book already?

Reader Interactions

189Comments

  2. 2.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: However, I think they’re right about having more paid media as opposed to relying on Trump calling into the various shows; it allows the campaign to control the message.

    ETA: The idea of make Trump “more Presidential” is counterproductive, let Trump be Trump.

  4. 4.

    MattF

    As I mentioned in an earlier thread, pissing matches put a burden on us elderly gentlemen– and on our urologists, who now all have to update their appointment software to deal with the higher volume.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Trump has succeeded so far without fundraising much or spending a lot of money in the primary. I don’t think he can get away with not spending money in the general. It’ll be interesting to see how much of his own money he continues to put up.

  9. 9.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: Remember CA is more like the general than other primaries. We have multiple media markets and it’s expensive.

    ETA: New York would be similar, but Trump being from there made paid media less important.

  10. 10.

    MattF

    It’s just going to get more and more difficult to distinguish snark from reality. We probably need to regroup and establish some conventions for telling the difference.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Has Trump been sinking a lot of money into California? Last I heard, he was only slightly ahead of Cruz there. But that was before Cruz’s meltdown.

  13. 13.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: Trump will be here today for a rally in Costa Mesa(the OC), I’ve not seen any paid media.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:

    It’ll be interesting to see how much of his own money he continues to put up.

    His campaign committee is going to declare bankruptcy on Nov 9.

  15. 15.

    bystander

    Moanin’ Joe is presently exhorting everyone to have a deep, intellectual discussion of Trump’s “Jacksonian” foreign policy speech. He won’t tolerate any dismissive snobbery such as he heard yesterday from both the Left and the Right.

    Is there anywhere else on earth you can get paid so much to be so dumb?

  17. 17.

    satby

    Good morning back rikyrah!

    If I can just get through the next few weeks, there’s some light at the end of the tunnel. So I have that to hang on to.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    @BillinGlendaleCA: With his celebrity and the amount of free press he gets, it is remarkable what he’s been able to do to the GOP. I just hope the country as a whole isn’t so broken.

  25. 25.

    satby

    @raven: Good song, thanks!
    @Baud: don’t know how much I deserve it, but a holiday from all the valuable lessons life keeps teaching me will be nice. I hope :)

  26. 26.

    maryQ

    The timing of the Cruz announcement recall puts Sanders and Rosario Dawson in a tough position. They want to announce now, but party insiders are expecting that he will make Hilary his running mate. So he has to wait until after the indictment, and then reach out to her supporters with compassion and care.

  27. 27.

    Mustang Bobby

    Trump basically boiled it down to “America First.” To students of history or those of a certain age, that’s a direct lift from the isolationist movement of 1940-1941 that fought FDR’s attempts to fight Hitler before Pearl Harbor. They were not without their charms: while many members were sincerely dedicated to keeping the peace and America out of war, a number of America Firsters were xenophobic, thinly-veiled racists and anti-Semites, and impressed with how well Herr Hitler had revitalized Germany. They rallied behind celebrities such as Charles Lindbergh who warned America that we were being conned into war by a cabal of “international money interests.” (They knew how to dog-whistle, too.) And we all know how it ended.

  28. 28.

    satby

    @Amir Khalid: I had to quit reading Salon just for that reason. Half the posts would be anti-Hillary screeds; seriously, they couldn’t find other stuff to mix it up a little by looking at the other team?

  30. 30.

    geg6

    @satby:

    Poor Amanda Marcotte is screaming into the Berniebro void over there. If not for her and Digby (who doesn’t seem to have a horse in the race) it would be all Bernie all the time. They are the only two worth clicking on Salon for.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @maryQ:

    NYT is reporting that Bernie had significantly cut his staff. His current strategy is simply to win California for the symbolic effect at the convention.

  32. 32.

    gf120581

    @Baud: Also, apparently he didn’t tell those staff himself, but delegated the duty to Comic Book Guy.

    I’m starting to get why Sanders has few friends on Capitol Hill. His personal skills ar somewhat lacking.

  33. 33.

    gf120581

    @geg6: Salon has H.A. Goodman featured. That’s all you need to know. (His latest is a flat out plea for the FBI to indict Hillaryand save us all.)

  39. 39.

    Chyron HR

    @Baud:

    Won’t the symbolism of winning California be tempered slightly by his crushing defeat in DC the following week?

  41. 41.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: We want Trump to be Trump. We especially want him to keep making stupid bigoted comments which Secretary Clinton can use in sound bites during the general.

    The National Enquirer needs to link Cruz to the crucifixion — yes that crucifixion. If you’re going to make ish up, don’t hold yourself back.

  42. 42.

    Mike J

    @maryQ:

    and then reach out to her supporters with compassion and care.

    Still waiting to hear what parts of Clinton’s platform Sanders is willing to adopt to woo us.

  44. 44.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Rich candidates boasting that they’re self-funding campaigns has always struck me as odd. Why is that virtuous? Doesn’t it mean that only rich people should be able to run for office?

  47. 47.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MomSense: According to the article at the Guardian, the ruling is actually correct… in the narrowest legalistic reading of the statute. The prosecutor is still absolutely gobsmacked. This is what happens when amateurs write laws.

  49. 49.

    MomSense

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    What are the chances that OK, where middle school girls’ promiscuity causes tornados, will be able to write a statute that isn’t complete BS?

  50. 50.

    Patricia Kayden

    @gf120581: How Salon has fallen. It used to be a great online liberal/progressive website, although it periodically featured Paglia’s incomprehensible pablum. Not even sure what it is now.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    @MomSense:

    where middle school girls’ promiscuity causes tornados

    Wait, wasn’t that one of the superpowers in the X-Men movies?

  53. 53.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    Wouldn’t it be great to be a mutant every now and then just so you could show up at a legislative session in OK, start spinning the elements into a storm and tell them to fix the damned law or else.

  54. 54.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Baud: Having been monogamous for a very long time, I’m not up on all the latest trends in sexual practice, but, uhm, how does someone who is completely unconscious perform oral sex? From my knowledge of it, it requires some sort of active participation from the, uhm, partner whose mouth is in use.

  56. 56.

    Germy

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Not even sure what it is now.

    Misleading clickbait headlines, sub-quality essayists like H.A. Goodman, superficial pop culture obsessions. It’s been a steady decline.

  60. 60.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    I love how Trump rhymes with mostly negative terms or at least used very easily to create a negative phrase – Trump,lump,dump,rump,bump,hump,jump,pump,sump,harrumph!

  63. 63.

    Kay

    Really looking forward to learning more about sleazy Donald Trump:

    What Trump wanted was help fending off potential rivals to his Atlantic City casino business. He especially feared the rise of Indian gaming.

    Trump poured money into a shell group called the New York Institute for Law and Society. The group existed solely to publish ads smearing his potential Indian competition. Under dark photos of needles and other junkie paraphernalia, the group asserted, “The St. Regis Mohawk Indian record of criminal activity is well documented.” (It wasn’t.) “Are these the new neighbors we want?” We know that Trump and Stone were behind the New York Institute because Gov. George Pataki investigated its doings. He slapped Trump and Stone with a $250,000 fine and required them to publicly apologize for running the ads.

    Manafort actively avoided the spotlight, though he had a knack for garnering unwanted attention. He took on clients and causes that even most of his colleagues on K Street considered outside the usual bounds. Black, Manafort, and Stone hired alumni of the Department of Housing and Urban Development then used those connections to win $43 million in “moderate rehabilitation funds” for a renovation project in Upper Deerfield, New Jersey. Local officials had no interest in the grants, as they considered the shamble of cinder blocks long past the point of repair. The money flowed from HUD regardless, and developers paid Manafort’s firm a $326,000 fee for its handiwork. He later bought a 20 percent share in the project. Two years later, rents doubled without any sign of improvement. Conditions remained, in Mary McGrory’s words, “strictly Third World.” It was such an outrageous scam that congressmen flocked to make a spectacle of it. Manafort calmly took his flaying. “You might call it influence-peddling. I call it lobbying,” he explained in one hearing. “That’s a definitional debate.”

    Let the “vetting” begin.

  64. 64.

    Germy

    What must be going through Romney’s mind? Very early in the campaign season he is told Jeb is unstoppable. Mitt decides not to run because of the looming inevitability of the exclamation mark.

  69. 69.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Heh: Take it from St. Louis, Arsenal fans — find a new club

    Kroenke keeps penny-pinching in a league that requires big spending on expensive player transfers. His spending in other areas — most notably a multi-billion dollar NFL stadium in Inglewood and a $725 million ranch in Texas — hasn’t gone unnoticed. Adding to the agony is that Kroenke in the past has taken millions out of the club for “strategic and advisory services.”

    So, the fans who pay the highest season-ticket price in the Premier League are making their opinions known. Loudly.

    …

    “We are seeing the same failures year after year, and amid rumors that Arsene Wenger may be given a new three-year contract there really seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. Kroenke and the board are seemingly content with Champions League cash, so outside of finishing fourth in the league there is no pressure at all on the manager. This isn’t good enough.”

    You have to admire their spunk. Really. But a quick review of every team Kroenke’s tentacles touch offers little hope their cries will be heard. In fact, things will probably get worse.

    Kroenke transitioned from minority to majority owner of the Rams in 2010. Moving the team back to Los Angeles became a bigger priority than making the playoffs. The Rams haven’t been since 2004. Coach Jeff Fisher has gone 27-36-1 headed into an unprecedented fifth season. Fisher, proud owner of the Teflon Trophy, makes Wenger look like soccer’s Vince Lombardi.

  70. 70.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: You know, the states with Democratic primaries in May are mostly Sanders-friendly territory; I expect he’s going to rack up another solid string of wins.

    While it won’t remotely put him over the top, I wonder if there’s going to be yet another round of “Sanders is on a roll again and could totally win” in the political media. Since he could always theoretically get a majority with a lopsided win in California or by flipping the superdelegates, they’ll never be able to say it’s impossible.

  71. 71.

    Germy

    @Baud:

    I would have liked to see Romney go against Trump.

    We got a tiny glimpse of it when Mitt launched his mini-offensive.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    No one outside of NY knows anything about Trump. I still remember a 1,000 word piece on Obama’s completely ordinary home mortgage. That was the media focus for about 6 months after they knew he had the nom- how no one knew “anything” about him :)

    This is like tens of thousands of pages. The bankruptcy petitions alone!

  74. 74.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    We seemed to have turned a corner. It partly depends in whether Sanders can continue to fundraise at the pace he has been. He has spent a lot of money in getting his wins.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @Kay: It’s really odd that the Republicans couldn’t use any of that stuff against him. Didn’t even really try.

  76. 76.

    Gin & Tonic

    @OzarkHillbilly: OK, thanks. I don’t want more details. And I somehow think that would also be a uniquely unsatisfying act, if the recipient is unconscious. But the less said at this point the better, probably.

  77. 77.

    Lamh36

    good morning.

    up early for light to San Francisco…I have a layover in San Diego. Made it just in time for boarding with 9 min to spare!!!! I’m in the A group this time…so better position! Still haven’t had a full night sleep…gonna try to sleep on the plane if I can

    ETA: and just like that drama. apparently the captains 1st mate is happening car trouble…so the flight is waiting for him…could be 15min could be 30..sigh hopefully not so delayed that I miss my layover or lose my primo position in the plane

  78. 78.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Baud: Not really, IMO. Trump’s a coward, but all the rest of them are afraid of him. “He’s rich (so he says) and he might crush me like a bug!!1” “He might run 3rd Party!!11” “He’s the only thing keeping us in the news and keeping the money train running!!1” Etc.

    Something will happen to take him down. Something always comes up to get the press and public opinion to turn. It just takes a very long time in many cases…

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who hopes it happens after the Cleveland convention and before November.)

  82. 82.

    Matt McIrvin

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I don’t think it will be any one thing; it’ll just be that he gets fewer votes than Clinton. Trump seems to be completely impervious to scandal; everyone already knows he’s dirty, there’s more dirt on him than on all the other presidential candidates combined, up to and including that he himself is a rapist, and it doesn’t ever really eat into his base. But it puts a ceiling on his general-election support.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I know everyone hates the “horserace” aspect of media, but I see it as allowing voting to go forward. I don’t think they should declare people “unfit” or “definitely losing” – that puts them too far in front. If they don’t let it go forward that gives them too much power.

    There is real scrutiny when it comes down to 2 candidates though, and Trump has gotten none of that. You never know what people will find horrifying or “definitive” as far as a person- Trump is untouchable until he isn’t. I swear I heard more about Romney’s treatment of his dog than his business dealings. Dogs are great but I wouldn’t think that would somehow start defining him as callous and uncaring.

  84. 84.

    Mike J

    @Gin & Tonic: The PM of the UK managed to do it with a dead pig.

    I believe the actual answer would be that the rapist was not looking for sexual gratification, but a dominance display. You don’t need to be able to finish to take a few pictures and embarrass the victim.

  85. 85.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: I’m not sure Clinton can push him too hard on his many scandals without it dirtying her too, because of those associations, and because he’ll come back with all the old stuff about Bill, Whitewater and anything else he can think of. In the national media it’s just going to be “both sides are filthy.”

  86. 86.

    Tripod

    @Baud:

    Good question.

    Maybe they didn’t want to piss off his voters and were wrong on the dynamics. Clinton ran similar kid glove tactics. Maybe the only thing that matters over there anymore is grifting the donor base.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    @Kay: People are overly forgiving of business dealings. Most people don’t know how to draw the line between what’s legitimate and acceptable and what’s not.

  88. 88.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amir Khalid: I saw that piece this morning and came away with the overwhelming impression that the writer thinks very highly of himself. Maybe that exercise in turd-polishing triggered some insecurity.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin: I don’t think they’ll push the scandals directly. I just think they probably have better insight into his personality than your average nominee would.

    @Tripod: I understand Clinton’s strategy. It seems like Trump has scandals the GOP could push that wouldn’t offend their base. Maybe not.

  90. 90.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Baud: Ditto.

    (I tried to suggest going to Y o s e m i t e (it’s not far) or M u i r W o o d s (if it is), but FYWP kept silently eating my comment. So, just a ditto.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who wonders if this one will make it…)

  91. 91.

    Mike J

    @Betty Cracker: He was pretty good when he wrote about being a pilot. Then they let him write about the Crimean invasion. I don’t understand the authoritarian lefties who love Putin and Sanders and claim to hate corruption.

  92. 92.

    maryQ

    @Mike J: but, but, but, post indictment, you see, he and Rosario will have been vindicated! They will have all the power! No need to adopt her corrupt fracking platform!

  93. 93.

    maryQ

    @Baud: yes! And once he wins CA, he will get the Super delegates to back him because he is stronger in the GE!

  94. 94.

    Baud

    @maryQ:

    Clinton’s team has now officially said they are transitioning to the general election. I think even if Sanders wins California, it will be seen more as a reflection that Clinton isn’t actively competing against him anymore.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @Mike J:

    I don’t understand the authoritarian lefties who love Putin and Sanders and claim to hate corruption.

    Tradition. Weren’t a lot of lefty intellectuals pro-Soviet back in the day? I think it’s a flavor of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.

  99. 99.

    Mary

    @OzarkHillbilly: According to the article they found his DNA around her mouth, suggesting that she was forced to perform oral sex, not that it was performed on her.

  105. 105.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Peale: Well if you heard it from the National Enquirer, it must be true.

    @Kay: I’m sure Secretary Clinton’s people are combing through Trump bankruptcies and other legal files for fodder in her general election ads. There is so much to go after him for that it’s going to be a bonanza for them.

  106. 106.

    MomSense

    @Lamh36:

    I hope you get going soon and have sooo much fun.

    Mnemo mentioned the other night that there are some really good restaurants that have opened up in Oakland recently and she wanted one of us to let you know.

  107. 107.

    BR

    We should start a campaign to have the Enquirer removed from the checkout of major chain stores — it’s clearly going to be a Trump propaganda outlet for thew rest of the campaign.

  109. 109.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think Trump fits the kind of conservative temperament- it’s not ideological. It’s a way of looking at the world where people who take things to excess can’t be trusted, where rules matter.

    I so vividly recall the Bush campaign theme where he would “restore” honor and dignity to the WH. It was a sleazy way to smear Clinton as white trash, of course, but it’s more than that. We make a joke in this office re: one local conservative lawyer – he says “good people”. I mimic it as “goooood people” because that’s how he says it. “Good people” aren’t loud and bragging and they don’t file bankruptcy or have messy public divorces.

  111. 111.

    Patricia Kayden

    @OzarkHillbilly: A special way of life where you could enslave, torture and kill Black people at will. Someone should remind him that America fought a war against slave holding states and defeated them. There is nothing to celebrate about the Confederacy and its anti-Black posture.

    P.S. But Black people are always told that we should just get over it (it being slavery and segregation). Funny that.

  112. 112.

    Baud

    @Kay: I agree. They’ve invested so much mental energy in the notion of their own moral superiority that Trump is like a bucket of cold water thrown in their faces. The conservative myth has traditionally been that they were put on this Earth by God to save civilization, not to lead in its destruction.

  117. 117.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: LOL. Trying but then we have pro-Confederate idiots re-fighting the Civil War from well over 100 years ago to save the losing side’s reputation.

    @Matt McIrvin: What makes you think that Trump won’t go after Secretary Clinton (and President Clinton) on a personal level which would mean dredging up the old “scandals” from the 1990s? Trump is a dirty person and will be more than happy to wallow in mud slinging. Secretary Clinton needs to go for his jugular any way she can. No holds barred.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    There was this phrase that was popular in social services- “chaotic households”- it roughly translates to “poor people”. To me they have “chaotic households” because they live on the edge of a cliff, but to people like David Brooks it’s a terrifying moral failure. I don’t know how Trump surmounts that- he IS chaos.

  120. 120.

    MomSense

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I really think Clinton should stay as above the fray as possible. I’m hoping she takes a page out of Pres Obama’s only adult in the room book. The cooler and calmer she is the more Trump’s reckless arrogance will be a factor. I’m thinking of the soccer mom keep us safe crowd who at some point will be impressed that they wouldn’t even let Trump babysit their kids let alone run the country.

    Besides, it’s not like there won’t be plenty of Clinton surrogates to point out that Trump has plenty of scandals in his Trump suit closet.

  121. 121.

    Mike J

    Is everyone celebrating Ed Balls day? Hitting the Ed Balls day sales, watching the animated specials on TV?

    Five years ago, Ed Balls was shadow chancellor. One of his aides suggested he search twitter for his name. Instead he tweeted, “Ed Balls”. Every April 28 for the past five years, people around the world have celebrated Ed Balls day.

    Ed Balls!

  123. 123.

    MomSense

    @JPL:

    Let’s start that meme! Seriously, you see the creepy things he has said about his own daughter and other women, and there is no way you would leave your kid alone with him.

  126. 126.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: Also, I have to take back what I said about Sanders-friendly territory. Clinton is leading in the recent polling in West Virginia and Kentucky, also in Indiana (which is in June). I’d have assumed they were Bernie states.

    It actually seems like she has a base of support in greater Appalachia, which is consistent with 2008 (and with the Bill Clinton years), but not consistent with the usual narratives about how the primary race has gone, with Sanders as the candidate with white-working-class appeal.

    Oregon should be Bernie’s last really big win, though.

  127. 127.

    Davebo

    Via LGM, Boehner on Cruz.

    Much of the discussion – and laughs – focused on Boehner’s views on the current presidential candidates. Segueing into the topic, Kennedy asked Boehner to be frank given that the event was not being broadcasted, and the former Speaker responded in kind. When specifically asked his opinions on Ted Cruz, Boehner made a face, drawing laughter from the crowd.

    “Lucifer in the flesh,” the former speaker said. “I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.”

    The guys a regular Zig Ziglar.

  130. 130.

    rikyrah

    @Germy:

    What must be going through Romney’s mind? Very early in the campaign season he is told Jeb is unstoppable. Mitt decides not to run because of the looming inevitability of the exclamation mark.

    BWA HA HA HA HA H HA HA HA HA

    Now, this made me laugh.

    Cause, it’s true. The Bush Crime Family got rid of Willard, and he’s sitting on the sidelines watching this.

  131. 131.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m not sure which states have open or closed primaries, Clinton does better with Democrats(closed primary) than when Independents and Republicans can vote(open primary). CA is a semi-open primary, in that we allow folk that have no party affiliation to vote in the Democratic primary.

  133. 133.

    MattF

    @rikyrah: He has only himself to blame for believing that. I suppose he’s the kind of guy who would be impressed by a fleet of Brinks Trucks.

  137. 137.

    Jeffro

    @Davebo: I was just about to post the same thing, holy cow Orange John, way to let it fly!!

    Well, there goes the #NeverTrump movement…(lol)

    You know, if you’re any sort of Republican ‘establishment’ pol (or voter for that matter) you almost have to be in a daze at this point. Gearing up to run against one of the highest-negatives Democrats in recent history, and your party puts up a complete buffoon whose rise – whether he wins the nom or not – could split the party right in half. Your slim chance to avert this happening rests (or did, anyway, until a couple days ago) with the campaign of a man noted by people in his own party as basically the Antichrist.

    Whither the “deep bench”, GOP? How’s 8 straight years of ODS working for ya?

  138. 138.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

    : I agree. They’ve invested so much mental energy in the notion of their own moral superiority that Trump is like a bucket of cold water thrown in their faces.

    Which is why President and Mrs. Obama drive them CRAZY!!

    EVERYTHING they say about family values and morality…

    The Obamas demonstrate it….to the NTH DEGREE.

    And, it drives them nuts.

    It also has been part of them being discredited.

    I have written that the thing about ODS, is that they never left it at politics and political positions.

    They had to attack the President personally.

    They couldn’t even give him the credit for being a Good Husband, Father and American – ‘even if we disagree with him politically’.

  140. 140.

    Mike J

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Also, I have to take back what I said about Sanders-friendly territory. Clinton is leading in the recent polling in West Virginia and Kentucky, also in Indiana (which is in June). I’d have assumed they were Bernie states.

    Clinton won the PA counties that border WV, would guess they’re pretty similar.

  143. 143.

    Jeffro

    @MattF: As usual, that’s a beaut – thanks for the link!

    I LOVED THIS:

    You only have to do a couple of things right when you know everyone else is doing everything wrong.

  144. 144.

    MomSense

    @rikyrah:

    Which is why President and Mrs. Obama drive them CRAZY!!

    EVERYTHING they say about family values and morality…

    The Obamas demonstrate it….to the NTH DEGREE.

    And, it drives them nuts.

    It also has been part of them being discredited.

    I have written that the thing about ODS, is that they never left it at politics and political positions.

    They had to attack the President personally.

    They couldn’t even give him the credit for being a Good Husband, Father and American – ‘even if we disagree with him politically’.

    He is everything the Republicans have been telling us they stand for – a self made success with exemplary family values, living according to Christian teachings. And yet, they hate him. The way they treat him proves them liars. There is also the problem for them that he is excelling as a black man and we have spent hundreds of years invested in bigotry and the lie that white people are superior. His excellence has exposed all their lies and racism and they cannot cope.

  145. 145.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: Bob Schooley had a tweet recently that showed Mrs. Cruz w/ her kids vs. Mrs. Cruz with Mr. Cruz…looks like Chris Christie’s not the only hostage in need of rescuing this cycle

  148. 148.

    rikyrah

    Found at POU:

    This is a passage from the New York Times Magazine interview with PBO that’s out today – PBO on why even though the economy is humming along, a lot of people still think its horrible:

    But the president did seem frustrated. As he tried to sum up his economic legacy in Florida, our discussion stretched to twice as long as planned, seemingly to the consternation of the Secret Service. When we got back on Air Force One, he sent an aide to ask if we could continue the conversation; when I joined him again, he looked as if he’d been stewing over something. He quickly returned to the topic of public perception. “If you ask the average person on the streets, ‘Have deficits gone down or up under Obama?’ probably 70 percent would say they’ve gone up,” Obama said, with some justifiable exasperation — the deficit has in fact declined (by roughly three-quarters) since he took office, and polls do show that a large majority of Americans believe the opposite.

    Obama is animated by a sense that, looking at the world around him, the U.S. economy is in much better shape than the public appreciates, especially when measured against the depths of the financial crisis and the possibility — now rarely even considered — that things could have been much, much worse. Over a series of conversations in the Oval Office, on Air Force One and in Florida, Obama analyzed, sometimes with startling frankness, nearly every element of his economic agenda since he came into office. His economy has certainly come further than most people recognize. The private sector has added jobs for 73 consecutive months — some 14.4 million new jobs in all — the longest period of sustained job growth on record. Unemployment, which peaked at 10 percent the year Obama took office, the highest it had been since 1983, under Ronald Reagan, is now 5 percent, lower than when Reagan left office. The budget deficit has fallen by roughly $1 trillion during his two terms. And overall U.S. economic growth has significantly outpaced that of every other advanced nation.

    Gene Sperling, the former director of the National Economic Council who spent hours inside the Oval Office debating and devising the president’s economic strategy, told me, “If we were back in early 2009 — when we were coming to work every morning with clenched stomachs, with the economy losing 800,000 jobs a month and the Dow under 7,000 — and someone said that by your last year in office, unemployment would be 5 percent, the deficit would be under 3 percent, AIG would have turned a profit and we made all our money back on the banks, that would’ve been beyond anybody’s wildest expectations.”

    There are, of course, many reasons so few Americans seem to be celebrating. “How people feel about the economy,” Obama told me, giving one part of his own theory, is influenced by “what they hear.” He went on: “And if you have a political party — in this case, the Republicans — that denies any progress and is constantly channeling to their base, which is sizable, say, 40 percent of the population, that things are terrible all the time, then people will start absorbing that.”

  151. 151.

    Chris

    @bystander:

    Moanin’ Joe is presently exhorting everyone to have a deep, intellectual discussion of Trump’s “Jacksonian” foreign policy speech.

    Which continent are we supposed to be ethnically cleansing for colonization purposes this time?

  152. 152.

    BR

    @rikyrah:

    This is something I’ve been frustrated about with Sanders’s campaign — he fed into these misconceptions because it helped push his message. I’d don’t see why he couldn’t have had a bit of nuance — i.e. it’s great we’re getting people back to work under Obama, but we need to make sure those jobs pay more, etc.

  153. 153.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    I would have liked to see Romney go against Trump.

    Most one-sided fight since Germany/Brazil in the last world cup.

  154. 154.

    MattF

    @Chris: We need to watch out for anyone who claims that Der Trump should now be taken seriously on any policy question, much less foreign policy. Gawd no. No, no, no, no, no.

  155. 155.

    rikyrah

    And the Democrats don’t run on this because??????

    ……………

    U.S. Jobless Claims Hover Near Lowest Level in Four Decades
    April 28, 2016 — 8:30 AM EDT

    Jobless claims last week hovered around four-decade lows, showing the labor market remains the strongest part of the U.S. economy.

    Initial applications for unemployment benefits climbed by 9,000 to 257,000 in the week ended April 23, a report from the Labor Department showed Thursday in Washington. The prior week’s revised 248,000 claims were the fewest since 1973.

    The low level of firings indicates companies are optimistic about prospects for demand after a soft first quarter. Continued progress in the labor market that’s accompanied by accelerating wage growth will be needed to help prop up consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy.

  156. 156.

    Just One More Canuck

    @Matt McIrvin: which states would those be – the ones that have any polls either have Clinton with leads of various sizes, or polls that are so small in sample size that you cant draw any conclusions from them (couldn’t find any polls from Oregon – presumably that may be sanders friendly)

  158. 158.

    Seanly

    So grifter joins campaign and displaces the boss’ grift with his own? Ah, I love Republicans!

  159. 159.

    Matt McIrvin

    @MomSense: I’ve actually seen Barack Obama described by these people as a weak, henpecked father whose family is somehow running amok. I guess it’s of a piece with that bizarro bit from 2012 about how Obama was less manly than Romney because his sperm produced only girls.

  160. 160.

    Aimai

    @rikyrah: if you have a third of the democratic party stabbing the president in the back, howling that he is a Republican, corporatist, stooge and holding him accountable for the plummetting elevator that has been worker salaries since reagan, its a pretty heavy lift to get the facts out there. If bernie would stop blaming obama for not being able to fix the harm of republican rule fast enough we might be sble to get somewhere.

  161. 161.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Just One More Canuck: I think I was just wrong… assumed that Sanders was a lot stronger in the Appalachian region and Indiana than he actually is according to recent polls. The narrative has been that Sanders does well in whiter, more rural states, but that really only seems to be true in the Plains, West Coast and New England, not in most of the East.

    There are no polls in Oregon, but just going by local culture, it’s probably going to be Sanders’ great last hurrah.

  162. 162.

    gene108

    @BR:

    @rikyrah:

    This is something I’ve been frustrated about with Sanders’s campaign — he fed into these misconceptions because it helped push his message. I’d don’t see why he couldn’t have had a bit of nuance — i.e. it’s great we’re getting people back to work under Obama, but we need to make sure those jobs pay more, etc.

    The problem is the distributions of the gains has not been equal.

    1. There was a massive redistribution of wealth upwards during the Bush, Jr. years. Real incomes for most folks stayed the same of declined.
    2. Undoing that mess from the Bush years has not happened fast enough to off-set the losses people suffered.
    3. Therefore a lot of people do not feel economically secure compared to earlier decades.

    It is hard to tell people things are better, when they are poorer than they were 10 years ago.

  163. 163.

    Seanly

    @satby:

    Yeah, I took Salon off my favorites list a few weeks ago. Nothing but anti-Hillary concern trolling and Camille Paglia’s poorly written attempts to be next John Stossel but with more misogyny. And the masturbatory think pieces trying to convince people under 30 to not vote.

  164. 164.

    gene108

    @rikyrah:

    Who’d listen?

    The media is wired for Republican messaging, and Republican messaging is “everything sucks because of Obama”.

    They have a huge megaphone and they drown out any good news.

    Edit: Part of the issue is the media cannot admit how awful Bush & Co. we’re for America and the world, as they were his biggest cheerleaders and enablers, so the buck gets pushed onto why Obama has not fixed the damage of his predecessor’s misrule.

  165. 165.

    Capri

    @Baud: They didn’t try to use the oppo research because in their minds, not being a TRUE CONSERVATIVE is infinitely worse.

    For all the talk that Cruz is throwing everything at winning Indiana, he only has 1 extremely lame commercial on the air (at least I’ve only seen 1 in my somewhat limited TV watching) where the first 20 seconds or so is a clip from an interview Hiliary did talking about why she charged for speeches, the second 20 seconds is Trump’s quote that he only got a million from his Dad and then a disappointed voice saying “They just don’t get it” then Vote Cruz.

  166. 166.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @BR:

    Sanders doesn’t understand anything deep or complex about the economy, which is why his NYDN interview was such a disaster. He has his one-note “banks bad” “Wall Street money corrupts” simplistic conspiracy theories, which appeal to a lot of people’s ignorance about the interconnectedness of the way things work in the real world. He didn’t know what Dodd-Frank had done. To my knowledge he hasn’t taken any responsibility for his vote to deregulate swaps and derivatives – one of the boiggest contributors to the crash – if he’d done that, I would have paid more attention to his shouty ranting. Instead, he’s just another blame gaming hypocrite.

  167. 167.

    burnspbesq

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Trump will be here today for a rally in Costa Mesa(the OC

    If he fucks with my 1:00 flight out of John Wayne, i will personally do sumpin sumpin to his pitiful ass.

  168. 168.

    Matt McIrvin

    @gene108: Obama’s public approval has been creeping up, though, and he does better on the economy than on most other subjects. It does seem to have a hard ceiling, but he’s getting closer to the top of the usual zone of variation.

    He’s got more disapproval on foreign policy right now; that’s the sort of Trumpist “other countries aren’t scared of us/are playing us for suckers” appeal. And the idea that “Obamacare=bad because Obama Obama” seems to just be set in stone.

  169. 169.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The narrative has been that Sanders does well in whiter, more rural states, but that really only seems to be true in the Plains, West Coast and New England, not in most of the East.

    Note, I’m actually in New England so I get kind of a distorted view of East Coast politics. Hillary carried Massachusetts by a hair, but in my neighborhood Sanders and Trump easily have the most visible supporters: as I’ve said before, Sanders has all the bumper stickers and Trump has all the yard signs.

  170. 170.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Hillary carried Massachusetts by a hair,

    She won in the all of the largest cities – where it’s the most diverse. Sanders won out in the college areas/Berkshires and through the middle of the state.

  172. 172.

    Matt McIrvin

    According to Slate, Trump has the general election in the bag because of Paul Manafort’s magic powers:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/paul_manafort_isn_t_a_gop_retread_he_s_made_a_career_of_reinventing_tyrants.html

    (The actual article is not as stupid as the apparent original headline, “If You Don’t Think Paul Manafort Can Get Trump Elected, You Don’t Know Paul Manafort”, or the subhead. I wonder if Foer had any input into them.)

  173. 173.

    maryQ

    @BR: Because Sanders has utter contempt for President Obama, his approach to governing (and of course, _actually_ governing), and the fact that he did not nationalize the banks, raise taxes, and declare single payer, all by executive action, on Jan 21, 2009. And, he is a Democrat. Sanders prefers Fidel Castro’s more heroic approach.

  174. 174.

    maryQ

    @rikyrah: Because those numbers are faked, I tell you. Doctored by the government, to lie to you, to cover up their own incompetence.

  176. 176.

    Applejinx

    @Baud: Heh, I thought I’d be able to find Sanders staff discussion in a ‘schadenfreude’ thread here ;)

    Two thoughts:

    Back in the day, Walter Yetnikoff was the feared tyrant of CBS Records. He presided over the height of the record industry, and was known to fly into tantrums and rages to get what he wanted. Yet, this man was also called ‘constitutionally incapable of firing’, sort of the anti-Trump if that makes any sense? Couldn’t even fire his own chauffeur, had to get other people to do it. Bernie may be that way. Wouldn’t surprise me.

    Secondly: before any of you get all haughty about how mean Bernie is being to his staffers, who all clearly believe they should work straight up to the convention and then flip the table and run third party: if Bernie is not lying about this being for the good of the Democratic party, what should he do? The answer is, this. Keep enough staff to stay until California and document the rise of the Left, and stop pissing away money that doesn’t serve the purpose of representing the Left in the Democratic Party.

    And this is what he’s doing. You would HAVE him do this, were he not doing it. So get it out of your system and then entertain the idea that Bernie Sanders does know what he’s doing and is in fact on your side. Stop making it fucking difficult for him to work with his own supporters and coax them into a coalition. Have some fucking gratitude for once in your lives. You very nearly lost, and being a gracious winner is important.

    Hillary Clinton is absolutely capable of this. Go and do likewise or you are betraying everything she cares about.

  177. 177.

    Applejinx

    @Applejinx: …holy shit, that was like jumping into a pool full of empty. Read the whole thread. NO hilbots kicking the shit out of Sanders for firing half his staff?

    My hat’s off (not that I have a hat, but if I did it would be off). Looks like people follow Hillary’s lead more closely than I would have dared to imagine.

    Mea culpa, whoops, and wow. Please continue. I guess unless you figure Bernie can turn around and win the nomination after laying off half his staff?

  178. 178.

    MattF

    @Matt McIrvin: Yeah, the outsider with magic powers. ‘Way more likely that it will become one of those “Now you have two problems” situations– for both Trump and Manafort.

  179. 179.

    Tom Q

    @Applejinx: “You very nearly lost, and being a gracious winner is important.”

    This is not remotely true. The fact of proportional representation in the primaries — and the early preponderance of caucuses and open primaries — makes Sanders’ showing look stronger than it is. Sanders has won precious few primaries, and there only because of non-Democrats voting for him; his only substantial primary win without indies was in his home state, whereas Hillary has won by wide margins in many regions. A 300 delegate lead, in the rewarding-losers proportional system, is equivalent to an over-1000 delegate lead in a winner-take-all format.

    I’m not dismissing Sanders’ showing completely: he drew out those young crowds, which made him definitely more than another Bill Bradley. But intimating he was anything like a coin-flip away from overtaking Clinton is greatly misrepresentative. Hillary has had solid command of this race since early March; Sanders was never more than a distant competitor.

  180. 180.

    Bob In Portland

    Raise your hand if you think Hillary’s “adoption” of Bernie’s positions of anything is more than just soon-to-be-abandoned primary posturing with no significance regaring her adminisration’s future policy agenda. Now go put on a dunce cap and sit in the corner. Sure, she no longer publicly insists that the TPP is the “gold standard” of trade agreements, but there are indications that she’s never really changed her mind about the horrible treaty she helped negotiate. Ironically, Trump will hammer her if she backs away from the flip-flop Bernie’s campaign forced her to make. So it won’t be until after the election that she declares the TPP just needs a couple of minor– and we mean MINOR MINOR MINOR– adjustments before it’s the gold standard again. – See more at: http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/#sthash.ijDMnrHs.dpuf

  181. 181.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Trump became upset late last week when he learned from media reports that Manafort privately told Republican leaders that the billionaire reality TV star was “projecting an image” for voters and would begin toning down his rhetoric, according to the sources.

    If I were Trump, I wouldn’t be mad at Manafort telling the truth on this–it’s probably half the reason he’s in the lead in the Republican Primary.

    In my experience, most of the people I have talked to who are voting for Trump actually KNOW this. They openly state that even though they don’t agree with some of the most objectionable crap he says at these rallies and on TV, they don’t think he really means it. They think it’s just him being funny or obnoxious or playing to the crowds, not a statement of what he’ll do as President.

    They then go on to bla-blah-blah about how much they hate Hilary Clinton.

    These two rationales are the only explanation that I have gotten that helps me understand why people I otherwise like and see as sane are supporting him.

  183. 183.

    Applejinx

    @Bob In Portland: This is why Bernie’s movement needs to move in and own the place.

    How shall I put it? If you want Hillary to do that, then go right ahead swearing that she cannot possibly get even grudging support from you, and by all means try to make it the conventional wisdom that the left means nothing and is immediately ignored at the earliest possible moment.

    Then, go fuck yourself.

    I’m sorry, but she cannot and will not abandon the leftie posturing. Two reasons;

    1) she actually likes a lot of it because IT IS REALITY. Do you seriously think she’s going to become a climate change denier when it’s obviously a doomed position leading to repeated humiliations by literally nature itself? What you call primary posturing is unavoidable reality. Same with income inequality issues: this is not going away and can’t be papered over any longer. She likes social, racial, gender justice. She likes a lot of things she hasn’t always supported because they were politically inadmissible (see: the 90s)

    2) she can count. There’s a big middle ground between ‘syncopantically coronating Hillary and not caring what she does because she’s so awesome’ and ‘cursing her name and all her doings for a thousand generations’. If you think Hillary Clinton will ignore the political conditions that threatened to cost her the nomination for a second time running, you are crazy. I think literally the only thing that could cause her to ditch all that stuff is if your own threat was plausible: that just by being Hillary Clinton, she might as well go full wingnut for all the difference it would make.

    And that is bullshit. By all means keep the pressure on, but of all politicans you could claim ‘never change their mind’! Are you nuts? Clinton positions evolve to track the electorate. If you walk away from ‘possible electorate’ you are an utter fool. You MUST continue to pressure Clinton to stay on target, and as a diehard Balloon Juice Berniebot sometimes harried until I quit the blog in anger and frustration, I am well pissed off to witness you being this kind of naive. Now more than ever we need to stick around and pointedly volunteer to be part of the coalition that’ll sweep Hils into office… and dictate our terms, with a credible threat of what could happen if we’re shit on, AND a credible pledge to help good and hard if we’re NOT shit on.

    I for one am prepared to fight as hard for Hillary as I did for Bernie IF I can reasonably believe the platform is both good and representative of what will happen when she’s in office.

    You’re not even dictating terms, you’re insisting a Clinton will do certain things because they adamantly will not tack to prevailing political winds. We may well end up asking more of Hillary Clinton than just to ‘blindly oppose the TPP’ (look into that: it’s more complicated. The forces of automation and computerization may be making ALL trade agreements kind of meaningless: why can’t they roboticize Mexico, or Bangladesh? At some point machinery is even cheaper than slave labor. Then what? And I might add, America has the capital to lead in this soulless automation. We can make it solar powered and churn out stuff at next to no cost)

    I’m sorry that the world is more complicated and fast-moving than ever. It might be the best possible thing to elect a pol who rapidly assesses the state of things. And that’s not Bernie. We love Bernie because he’s populist and humanist, not because he’d be the most effective powerbroker. And a powerbroker we shall need. We just want her to be humanist whilst doing so, and we are prepared to demand that of her. (and frankly, that’s how she’d rather see herself, so it’s not an unpleasant demand)

  184. 184.

    Elie

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Clinton needs to stay away from getting into the mud pit with Trump. She should respond where there is anything substantive, but the smear needs to be countered by others and with appropriate “pay back”. Trump has no idea what the firehose is gonna do to HIM and as we see by this whole Manafort hoo ha — he will always want to run things himself and has largely politically incompetent staff — so I see very very chaotic times ahead for him that by themselves will be disqualifying. The primary season is not the general. As many enemies as Hillary has, I am willing to bet that Trump has more. Don’t think for a minute that all the people he dissed like Bush and others are seething and may have their own scores to settle that they are holding back on. I remember reading somewhere that the Mormons associated with Romney just absolutely hate him and would vote for Hillary before supporting Trump..
    Trump may have been lucky for a while but we will see if this will continue.

  185. 185.

    Elie

    @Mike J:

    Bernie is too angry and too one note to be a growing trend… he doesn’t wear well and to anyone who has been paying attention, his negative campaigning has not served him well — despite that this is a pretty standard way to campaign against a stronger opponent. He, his team and his wife have not taken advantage of the good start they had from a positive and aspirational perspective. That and he was, persistently, weak on any details of how he would make all this happen. He is too old to not sound wiser… he in the end, just came off as more and more resentful than a visionary who could lead a real movement. He has some good ideas, but it will be up to others to actually get them done.

  186. 186.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Elie:

    Bernie is too angry and too one note to be a growing trend

    But he actually has been a growing trend for most of the primary season, in almost linear fashion, so there’s apparently more of a market for this than most people would have suspected at the beginning of last year.

    Very recent polls suggest he might have finally hit a ceiling, but it’s really too early to tell yet.

  187. 187.

    J R in WV

    @rikyrah:

    Rikyrah,

    You know that Hussein Obama can’t be a good father, a good man! He’s an African, for crying out loud!!! And a Demoncrat to boot…

    /snark

    Best president of the 21st century.
    Best President since FDR.
    Best father in the Oval Office, ever.

    what am I leaving out?

  188. 188.

    J R in WV

    @Matt McIrvin:

    IT doesn’t matter if Senator Sanders’ trend keeps going up! It’s too late, Hillary has won enough delegates that unless Sanders runs wins by 90% to 10% he can’t catch up.

    Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee in the 2016 presidential election. Done deal.

  189. 189.

    Barry

    @Baud: “Trump has succeeded so far without fundraising much or spending a lot of money in the primary. I don’t think he can get away with not spending money in the general. It’ll be interesting to see how much of his own money he continues to put up.”

    Especially if everybody else with the GOP shifts the money to Operation Save the DownTicket. That would make sense, under the assumption that Trump is doomed.

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