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You are here: Home / Open Threads / What in the Wide World of Fuck…

What in the Wide World of Fuck…

by Betty Cracker|  July 21, 20168:57 am| 175 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Assholes, General Stupidity

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Just catching up on last night’s news. Let me see if I have this straight:

Rodent fornicator Ted Cruz double-crossed Trump by failing to endorse him in his convention speech and exhorting so-con crazies to “vote their conscience,” i.e., vote for someone other than Trump. Moreover, Cruz provided an accurate transcript of his speech hours before delivery and ingeniously relied on the Trump organization’s incompetence to ensure it wouldn’t be reviewed in advance.

Master political strategist Trump triple-crossed Cruz by knowingly allowing him to deliver his non-endorsement speech while sending Trump minions to whip the crowd up into an anti-Cruz frenzy, such that Mrs. Cruz had to be hustled from the convention floor to safety by security guards. This is all good for Team Trump because it shows Trump is “well-liked” and that everyone despises Cruz.

In a NYT interview, Trump signaled a novel partnership with Vladimir Putin, in which Trump will stand by while Putin slams smaller NATO countries against the wall, and then Trump will emerge to shake those countries down for protection money. Will Putin get a cut? Probably in the form of an occasional annexation as an example to other countries that they better pony up.

Does that about cover it?

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Reader Interactions

175Comments

  1. 1.

    MattF

    July 21, 2016 at 9:01 am

    I think Mike Pence gave a speech.

  2. 2.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 9:01 am

    Trump wants to run the country like a mafia don and the media is worried about Hillary’s email server.

  3. 3.

    raven

    July 21, 2016 at 9:02 am

    Cruz didn’t “double cross” anyone. He told Triumph wasn’t going to endorse him and he didn’t.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    July 21, 2016 at 9:03 am

    Yeah, pretty much. But remember, Hillary Clinton something something emails something, so both sides are about the same.

  5. 5.

    dmsilev

    July 21, 2016 at 9:04 am

    Okay, there’s also this. That really happened, and no, that picture isn’t faked.

  6. 6.

    MattF

    July 21, 2016 at 9:04 am

    We know there’s a German word for ‘stab in the back’. What’s the word for ‘stab in the front’?

  7. 7.

    NorthLeft12

    July 21, 2016 at 9:04 am

    I really don’t get why the Donald’s, and RWNJs in general, love and admiration and obsequiousness to Putin do not have more serious repercussions.

    I mean, the guy is a grade A dictator, who is a potential threat to peace and stability in the world. Unless, this is exactly what the powers that be want that is.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    July 21, 2016 at 9:06 am

    @raven: Let’s just hope Bernie doesn’t get any ideas! (I keed! I keed!)

  9. 9.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 9:07 am

    Betty Cracker @ top Can you suggest a book/s that gives me a review basic punctuation rules. I am never sure about commas, sometimes I have too many and at other times too few.

  10. 10.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 21, 2016 at 9:08 am

    @NorthLeft12: They’ve always loved a guy who can say “fuck you” to anyone he wants, any time he wants. And I’m pretty sure there are some who wouldn’t mind the ability to off their pesky opponents without repercussions.

  11. 11.

    Pogonip

    July 21, 2016 at 9:08 am

    Are you all really this worried about Trump, such that the site is all Trump, all the time? If so, cheer up. The voting machines will be rigged so he will not become president. I was living in Ohio when the head of the Diebold company promised to deliver the state for Bush Jr., and I can tell you that nobody, including reporters, objected or even noticed much.

  12. 12.

    p.a.

    July 21, 2016 at 9:09 am

    @NorthLeft12: It’s Putin envy. It’s what they want the US to be.

  13. 13.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    July 21, 2016 at 9:11 am

    I couldn’t believe what I was hearing some years back, when my sister told me she had voted for McCain in 2008. She seems to have come back to her senses. A shit show fail parade like this’ll do that to people sometimes…

  14. 14.

    lamh35

    July 21, 2016 at 9:11 am

    ICYMI: Miami police shoot an unarmed black man who was lying in the street with his hands up

  15. 15.

    Face

    July 21, 2016 at 9:14 am

    @NorthLeft12: If I had to guess, it’s because The Base sees as their #1 opponent the Judicial System. They’re the ones who’ve allowed gay marriage, shot down voter ID (aka Keep the Nigs and Spix Away Laws), shot down abortion rights-killing legislation, etc. Dictators are infamous for ignoring the courts, and/or stacking them in their favor. The True Believers think this extra-Constitutional rule by Trump is the only way to bring back the country they want.

    Or, they’re just so fuckin stupid to even recognize just how awful this man would be, and his effect on relationships with damn near every other country not named Canada.

  16. 16.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:14 am

    @NorthLeft12:
    He does the types of photo ops that they love, bare chest horse riding, soring 7 goals in a professional hockey game, judo, killing big animals, you know all those manley things, none of namby pamby sports like body surfing and basketball. Plus Manafort told Trump that Putin promised to be his bestie.

  17. 17.

    rikyrah

    July 21, 2016 at 9:16 am

    Rodent fornicator Ted Cruz double-crossed Trump by failing to endorse him in his convention speech and exhorting so-con crazies to “vote their conscience,” i.e., vote for someone other than Trump.

    Rodent fornicator…

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

  18. 18.

    p.a.

    July 21, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: Strunk & White, The Elements of Style. Nice and brief. To build muscles: The Chicago Manual of Style (still a thing?), The New Century Handbook, Hult & Huckin (has ‘New’ in the title; must be good).

    Please note: do not judge these sources by my comment form!

  19. 19.

    srv

    July 21, 2016 at 9:16 am

    Most Americans don’t know why NATO is still a thing. Didn’t the EU put their big pants on? With an economy 8X bigger than Russia.

  20. 20.

    Cermet

    July 21, 2016 at 9:17 am

    Only tRump could make me feel bad for Cruz – not much, but a little. However, not at all for his wife – she is the worst form of life so makes sense those two are married.

  21. 21.

    Comrade Jake

    July 21, 2016 at 9:17 am

    Last night was basically a pro-wrestling spectacle, with Cruz playing the heel.

  22. 22.

    NickM

    July 21, 2016 at 9:17 am

    I can’t believe that Trump actually planned the triple-bank his people are spinning. If the name of Trump’s game is dominance politics, extracting concessions from friends and enemies by being tough, etc., allowing your chief rival to walk into your party, spit in your face, and walk back out again on his own power demonstrates weakness. So what Cruz got booed? He didn’t kiss anyone’s ring and basically threw down the gauntlet for 2020. No one’s going to remember the boos; they will for better or worse remember that Cruz shoved it right in Trump’s face.

  23. 23.

    rikyrah

    July 21, 2016 at 9:18 am

    I really don’t get why the Donald’s, and RWNJs in general, love and admiration and obsequiousness to Putin do not have more serious repercussions.

    Because, both sides don’t do it. How about Trump having as a Campaign Manager, someone with direct ties to Putin?

  24. 24.

    MattF

    July 21, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @Cermet: It’s the Cruz version of a pivot.

  25. 25.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    Nuh uh, the Mornin Joe crew says that the plagiarism story now makes Trump and Melania look good, that Rafael has healed the party wounds and united the party by shitting in the punch bowl, and to make the convention the greatst ever held Trump and his spawn just have to give great speeches tonight.

  26. 26.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    July 21, 2016 at 9:19 am

    That is exactly correct.

    And yet the major news sources will claim it’s all bad for Hillary Clinton because it keeps HER scandals front and center (because the Republicans have nothing else to attack her with), the die-hard Republican voting base will still vote Trump and play out the endgame of “party purity” by insisting on open pledges to the demagogue, the generally inclined voters who aren’t playing close attention will only get snippets of what’s going on and likely turn away creating reduced turnout numbers, and the polling will still have Trump’s numbers somewhere near around 40 percent (or, Dear Gods, go up /shudder) because the people getting polled are not representative of the actual population diversity (not enough Hispanics get polled).

    The only thing we can hope for now is that every NATO nation is breaking out every dark secret file they’ve got on the Republican leadership and threatening to release every last page unredacted unless the GOP agrees to rig their own turnout so that Trump only gets 50,000 voters nationwide.

  27. 27.

    Cermet

    July 21, 2016 at 9:20 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: There is mainly just one typical blunder with comma’s – comma splices; I live them, do them and can’t avoid them.

  28. 28.

    scav

    July 21, 2016 at 9:21 am

    The “I totally meant to do that!” defense is so convincing. “I meant for that to happen.” “It’s all a part of my cunning plan.”

    Well, that and using the reactions of a self-selected deliberately wound up sugar-high set of hard-core partisans as evidence of the inevitable reactions of all the piggies that stayed home, went to market, went without dinner or wanted nothing to do with the Orange Roast Beef in the first place.

  29. 29.

    Betty Cracker

    July 21, 2016 at 9:21 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: In addition to P.A.’s suggestions above, here’s a quick-n-dirty guide — warning, includes controversial style choices!

  30. 30.

    NonyNony

    July 21, 2016 at 9:22 am

    Interesting that Cruz is going out of his way to make sure that the Dolchstoßlegende narrative gets pinned on him. I know it’ll endear him with the muky mucks of the movement conservative leadership, but it strikes me as a bit of a misstep for winning a primary in 2020. Maybe not – maybe he’s counting on the fact that Trump supporters are a minority in the party and by 2020 he’ll be able to make the case that it wasn’t a stab-in-the-back but rather that Trump was a LOOOOSER and it won’t matter.

  31. 31.

    p.a.

    July 21, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @Cermet: Oxford comma. COMMA FIGHT!!!

  32. 32.

    Cermet

    July 21, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @lamh35: But to be fair to the Cop, the black man on the ground (trying to help) had someone (not black) sitting next to him holding a toy train. Who else would the cop shot if he felt threaten by that toy train? Duh.

  33. 33.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:23 am

    Dan Savage Has Had Enough Of ‘Pasty White’ Jill Sein Supporters

  34. 34.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    July 21, 2016 at 9:25 am

    I just wish that Cruz had closed with a “the Lannisters send their regards”. That would have been funny as shit.

  35. 35.

    Betty Cracker

    July 21, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @NickM: Yeah, that’s how I see it too. Seems like the entire convention has been geared toward the Trumpenproletariat true believers from start to finish, and they’ll be happy to view the Cruz incident in whatever manner Trump interprets it for them. But there’s a larger audience watching all this shit play out. Is not one of the main functions of a convention to introduce lightly affiliated or unaffiliated viewers to this year’s version of the party? Hard to see how this is not disastrous from that perspective.

  36. 36.

    Manyakitty

    July 21, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @Cermet: That, and the greengrocer’s apostrophe. “‘s” signifies a possessive or a contraction, but not a plural. /pedantry

  37. 37.

    Kay

    July 21, 2016 at 9:27 am

    It’s hard because they all lie constantly so “honorable”, “double cross” or “triple cross” will never be determined.

    It’s above my pay grade. They lie so much they probably no longer know themselves. I don’t think I need to remind you man’s nickname is “Ly’in Ted” and Trump of course is a well-documented liar of epic proportions :)

  38. 38.

    Cermet

    July 21, 2016 at 9:27 am

    @p.a.: :) Your on!

  39. 39.

    satby

    July 21, 2016 at 9:27 am

    @p.a.: Another one is Eats Shoots and Leaves

  40. 40.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:27 am

    @PaulWartenberg2016:
    Last night around 2 am when someone tried to make the point that this has all been disasterous, Tweety said yeah I know but I’m rooting for a close race, I want this to go down all the way to the wire. The media will do everything in their power to ensure the race stays close.

  41. 41.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    July 21, 2016 at 9:28 am

    I doubt that Trump reviewed it. The man is a consummate liar.

    And for the record, I never thought it a good idea to bring the Baltics and former Eastern Blocclients like Poland into NATO. That was ALWAYS fraught with disaster, given the treaty obligations.

  42. 42.

    Betty Cracker

    July 21, 2016 at 9:28 am

    @hovercraft: He actually said that aloud? Wow.

  43. 43.

    Shell

    July 21, 2016 at 9:29 am

    such that Mrs. Cruz had to be hustled from the convention floor to safety by security guards

    I bet she did. See. Honey. Its not just Hillarys blood the ravening hoard will yell for they’ve been riled up. Its anyone there told is todays enemy.

  44. 44.

    germy

    July 21, 2016 at 9:29 am

    @hovercraft: did he say why he wants a close race? I know why his bosses want it close (more drama, more viewership) but did Tweety give a higher-minded reason? Or did he admit it’s all just an adrenaline rush for him?

  45. 45.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    July 21, 2016 at 9:30 am

    I am not sure how widening the split between Trump and Cruz helps Trump. I mean most of the people at the convention are Trump supporters so of course they will rally around Trump. It’s the Cruz supports Trump needed to draw in, so how did last night do that….?

  46. 46.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:30 am

    @Betty Cracker:
    It was late, he was punchy, it was Tweety.

  47. 47.

    Betty Cracker

    July 21, 2016 at 9:32 am

    @Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: I think you can make a good argument that NATO should have been disbanded the day after the Berlin Wall came down, so I don’t necessarily disagree on the wisdom of expanding the alliance. But Trump isn’t offering a credible argument for scaling back entangling alliances; he’s proposing an extortion scheme.

  48. 48.

    Kay

    July 21, 2016 at 9:34 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think conventions matter more for Republicans because their voters are older and more traditional. The ways to reach the respective Party bases aren’t the same anymore. Democrats can use more fragmented and diverse outlets.

  49. 49.

    Cermet

    July 21, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: Putting anti-ballistic missiles in Eastern Europe was criminal and frankly, insane. Yes President Obama – I’m looking at you. Make the ONLY country in the world outside of us that has thousands of ICBM’s nervous and trigger happy – so fucking stupid! My only – Obama really fucked up really and in a monstrously big time manner. Yeah, ending all human life if the Russians panic makes any sense at all to protect Europe from Iranian missiles that DON’T FUCKING EXIST and WON”T!!!!

  50. 50.

    Some Dude

    July 21, 2016 at 9:35 am

    Cruz is betting that Trump tanks badly, and takes a chunk of the party with him in November. Come 2020, Cruz will try to be the White Knight saving the GOP from this terrible defeat by vanquishing Hillary. That is the plan as I see it. The only problem with that plan is that he is Ted Cruz.

  51. 51.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @germy:
    For him it’s for the love of the game, he just loves this stuff. The fact that he has a crush on both Drump and his wife, and dislikes Hillary makes him feel like each one has their pros and cons, but Drump being a builder seems to be the trump card so to speak. If Rafael had been the nominee, I’m pretty sure his attitude would have been completly different, he seems to despise Cruz (like most sentient people).

  52. 52.

    Mnemosyne

    July 21, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @Face:

    I’m pretty sure that Justin Trudeau is Not A Fan of Trump, so I wouldn’t count on Canada continuing to be nice to us if Trump somehow ends up in charge here.

    @scav:

    Now I’m picturing Trump as a dumber version of Blackadder. Or maybe we’re living in the universe where Baldrick ended up the dictator.

  53. 53.

    Amir Khalid

    July 21, 2016 at 9:36 am

    This RNC seems to be a dog’s breakfast of incompetence and disorganisation. As an outsider, my own feeling is that this party needs to be kept as far away from the reins of power as possible. I do wonder about the 40% or so of American voters who pick them no matter what.

  54. 54.

    gogol's wife

    July 21, 2016 at 9:37 am

    @NorthLeft12:

    The NYTimes, instead of having the headline “Trump Threatens to Dismantle NATO in Order to Please Putin,” has something like, “Trump Downplays U.S. Role in Other Countries’ Affairs.” Those small countries far away of which we know little.

  55. 55.

    Mnemosyne

    July 21, 2016 at 9:38 am

    @Manyakitty:

    True story: I once got into a verbal fight at work over apostrophe use.

  56. 56.

    VOR

    July 21, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @Betty Cracker: Yes. Most conventions are aimed at convincing the undecided voters that your party has better ideas. This convention seems to be geared to firing up the already committed base. Speakers keep exhorting people to vote in the fall, saying a non-vote is actually a vote for Hillary. The chants of “Lock Her Up” to fire up the crowd – how does that appeal to anyone other than the hardcore, talk radio crowd?

  57. 57.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 21, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: So, yes, my nym. Again and again.

  58. 58.

    MomSense

    July 21, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @lamh35:

    I just read that. OH MY GOD.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    July 21, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I do. I don’t think it’s a given that most of the people at the convention are strong Trump supporters. Most of the people at the convention are GOP Party “regulars”. Party regulars aren’t insurgents. They’re team players.

    There was beginning to be talk of empty seats and lower ratings than 2012. Popularity is all Trump has. It’s the entire argument for his candidacy- “people like me”. He has to create the appearance that he is popular and he is struggling to maintain that.

    I don’t know that he engineered this but there’s a plausible argument for why he would. He’s supposed to be a phenom. People watch phenoms. They don’t leave early. He was Tweeting afterward about all the “excitement in the arena”. He’s pushing back against the idea that this thing is a flop.

  60. 60.

    Jeffro

    July 21, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @dmsilev: She’s been waiting her whole life to give that salute…it all makes sense now. Coulter can only watch in envy.

  61. 61.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    July 21, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @p.a.: Team Oxford!

    @Betty Cracker: I think you missed the story that starts at this tweet. It’s arguably a continuation of the Heidi Cruz incident. Oh to have access to the listening devices at that hotel.

  62. 62.

    Betty Cracker

    July 21, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @Kay: Good point. But won’t the base outreach via whatever medium and impressions delivered to non-base voters revolve around the spectacles of the conventions to some extent?

  63. 63.

    MattF

    July 21, 2016 at 9:42 am

    @Betty Cracker: There’s also a ‘slow leak’ of possible Trump voters who decide, finally, one by one, that they just can’t do it.

  64. 64.

    Richard Mayhew

    July 21, 2016 at 9:42 am

    yes

  65. 65.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:42 am

    From Josh Marshall

    Like two zen masters facing off in a martial arts classic or perhaps two wizards doing battle in The Lord of the Rings, we have an epic confrontation between two masters who have trained for decades in the arts of assholery and bullying. But their powers equally matched, it is a stand off.

  66. 66.

    satby

    July 21, 2016 at 9:43 am

    OT, but giant evil software company forcibly moved my spambait hotmail account to Outlook. Hard to believe they consider Outlook an upgrade. It’s been my throwaway account for years but I have stuff from vendors I deal with I hate to lose, and Outlook makes it borderline unmanageable. Fuck MS.

  67. 67.

    Jeffro

    July 21, 2016 at 9:43 am

    @Some Dude:

    Cruz is betting that Trump tanks badly, and takes a chunk of the party with him in November. Come 2020, Cruz will try to be the White Knight saving the GOP from this terrible defeat by vanquishing Hillary. That is the plan as I see it. The only problem with that plan is that he is Ted Cruz.

    I agree with all of this.

    For the GOP, “did you openly…or even tacitly…support Trump?” is going to be their 2020 equivalent of the Dems’ 2008, “Did you vote to support the Iraq War?”

  68. 68.

    SFAW

    July 21, 2016 at 9:43 am

    @srv:

    Gee, there was a time when there was a “sometimes-amusing srv.” You seem to have replaced him/her with a “all dumbshit srv, all the time.” You might consider changing “back” (so to speak).

  69. 69.

    p.a.

    July 21, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @Amir Khalid: It’s the atavistic response to America’s original sin. The Western Hemisphere’s original sin actually, not that conquered peoples fate was ice cream and cookies here before the European invasion. There has been progress, but of the 2-steps-forward-1.8-back type. Glacial.

  70. 70.

    Jeffro

    July 21, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @hovercraft: Josh’s metaphor is correct, but for one thing: they are having this wizard-battle on Cruz’s turf. (and as an additional note: Cruz is much younger and can afford to play a longer game here).

  71. 71.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 21, 2016 at 9:45 am

    So is Drumpf going to send von Ribbentrop to Moscow and agree to let Russia snack on the Baltics?

  72. 72.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 21, 2016 at 9:46 am

    Um, what just happened to the Twitter feed? It’s now full of ads for something called LAShTal Daily News. Did you get hacked or something?

  73. 73.

    pluky

    July 21, 2016 at 9:46 am

    Trump loves Putin because the Russians are just about the only people left who will loan him money.

  74. 74.

    lamh35

    July 21, 2016 at 9:47 am

    Ted Cruz on Donald J. Trump: “I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father”

  75. 75.

    O. Felix Culpa

    July 21, 2016 at 9:47 am

    @satby: “giant evil software company “

    So, how do you really feel about corporate spawn of Bill Gates?

    ETA: Gaaahh. Block quote fail. Again. Thanks Obama.

  76. 76.

    Gene108

    July 21, 2016 at 9:47 am

    At a hotel for a business trip watching CNN. They cut to an interview with Manafort, until someone started asking him about white supremacists and ant-Semites backing Trump/Republicans. They cut back to the talking heads before the reporter finished his question.

  77. 77.

    Lee

    July 21, 2016 at 9:47 am

    One quibble:

    to “vote their conscience,” i.e., vote for someone other than Trumpf.

    That is the assumption that everyone booing made. There might be some people out there that voting their conscience is voting for Trump.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    July 21, 2016 at 9:49 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Well, for TRUMP it will because he isn’t doing anything other than that and cable and tweeting. The Clinton ads here are all about making Trump a bad person. They’re not directed to the Party base(s). They’re directed to older voters who watch and vote but aren’t plugged in other than that. Her Latino media outreach is for a segment of the Party base.

  79. 79.

    rikyrah

    July 21, 2016 at 9:49 am

    @lamh35:

    Hands up, and the AUTISTIC PATIENT HAD A TRUCK.

    Yeah, I can see why he needed to be shot

    Phuck.outta.here.

  80. 80.

    danielx

    July 21, 2016 at 9:50 am

    @Face:

    Or, they’re just so fuckin stupid to even recognize just how awful this man would be, and his effect on relationships with damn near every other country not named Canada.

    I’m waiting for Trump to announce that he’s going to acquire Canada in a hostile takeover. Because he can, and because they have all those resources going to waste, i.e., not being used for the benefit of Donald Trump and real Americans.

    I was conversing with a co-worker yesterday about the convention and what a complete display of asshatery and hatred it is. She’s a recent college grad; she told me her parents are Russian immigrants and do not care for Trump even the slightest bit because he’s all too reminiscent of Vladimir Vladimirovich.

  81. 81.

    p.a.

    July 21, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @Mnemosyne: on my corporate bio website under skills I posted “generally knows proper use of semicolon”. Under bio: “heir to Jolly Rancher fortune”. Got no response. When I changed my pic to Homer Simpson, however, I heard from HQ: “you can’t do that.” I deleted it, but replied to them that it was, unfortunately, a rather accurate portrayal.

  82. 82.

    Stan

    July 21, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @gogol’s wife: Well played!

  83. 83.

    NonyNony

    July 21, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @Jeffro:

    For the GOP, “did you openly…or even tacitly…support Trump?” is going to be their 2020 equivalent of the Dems’ 2008, “Did you vote to support the Iraq War?”

    The problem with that is that for the Dems “Did you vote to support the Iraq War” is a bottom-up requirement from Dem voters being imposed on Dem politicians.

    I strongly suspect that “did you support Trump” will also be a bottom-up requirement from Republican voters being imposed on Republican politicians. But it’s going to be the ones who can’t say “yes” who are going to feel the pain in the 2020 primary I suspect. (And in 2018 for a few marginal cases – but only at the margins. Without a presidential campaign I doubt that the hardcore Trump supporters will bother much except in a few cases.)

  84. 84.

    Mnemosyne

    July 21, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @lamh35:

    Your link was messed up, so here’s a fixed version.

    At least the poor guy didn’t die but, Jesus, what a fuck up.

  85. 85.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:52 am

    The key sign of a successful convention is when your runner-up opponent’s wife has to be escorted out by security.
    — Josh Barro (@jbarro) July 21, 2016

  86. 86.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    July 21, 2016 at 9:52 am

    @lamh35:

    The Lannisters send their regards.

  87. 87.

    MattF

    July 21, 2016 at 9:53 am

    Via TPM, Cruz continues to be Cruz.

  88. 88.

    SFAW

    July 21, 2016 at 9:54 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think you can make a good argument that NATO should have been disbanded the day after the Berlin Wall came down, so I don’t necessarily disagree on the wisdom of expanding the alliance.

    “Could have made,” maybe. But with Bush-and-Trump’s man-crush object (i.e., Vladimir Vladimirovich) having designs on expanding the Soyuz Rossya, it seems like that argument ought to be put on hold until Putin dies or leaves power.

  89. 89.

    Stan

    July 21, 2016 at 9:54 am

    @Lee:
    No. It is a very well established political convention that “vote your conscience” means “ignore the usual calculations and do what you want”, i.e., its the opposite of an endorsement. It’s not a neutral statement at all.

    Which, by the way, is another way of saying that most of the time political operatives are not free to vote their consciences.

  90. 90.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    July 21, 2016 at 9:54 am

    @danielx:

    As I read the transcripts of the programs on Radio Rwanda (aka RNC in CLE), I’m struck by how craven this whole hate bukakke is.

  91. 91.

    Mike in NC

    July 21, 2016 at 9:55 am

    After disbanding NATO, Drumpf and Putin will sign a historic non-aggression pact, which will work out as well as all previous such pacts.

  92. 92.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 9:55 am

    Master dealmaker Trump couldn’t extract an explicit endorsement from Cruz in exchange for a primetime speaking slot.

    — Michael Tracey (@mtracey) July 21, 2016

  93. 93.

    Mnemosyne

    July 21, 2016 at 9:56 am

    @lamh35:

    At least Cruz has something vaguely resembling a principle, unlike John McCain.

  94. 94.

    scav

    July 21, 2016 at 9:57 am

    Unifying the team by identifying a foe seems to be SOP and they’ll leap on the next available one to keep the excitement high. At this point, they’re adicted: they need the fix. Muslims, Women, Gays (especially in the military), Mexicans, Democrats, the poor, the sick (moochers all), fellow Republicans. This Very Hatefilled Hungry Caterpillar will consume all, but I somehow doubt it will prove a butterfly.

  95. 95.

    satby

    July 21, 2016 at 9:57 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: LOL, it’s a plot!!

  96. 96.

    NorthLeft12

    July 21, 2016 at 9:57 am

    @Gin & Tonic: I just realized that people might be confused. I was talking about Putin, not the yet unproven dicktator Trump.

  97. 97.

    Leto

    July 21, 2016 at 9:58 am

    From the Guardian: Donald Trump, Peter Thiel and the death of democracy

    Now, in 2016, Thiel has finally found a politician capable of seizing that opportunity: a disruptor-in-chief who will destroy a dying system and build a better one in its place. Trump isn’t just a flamethrower for torching a rotten establishment, however – he’s the fulfillment of Thiel’s desire to build a successful political movement for less democracy.

    Trump is openly campaigning on the idea that American democracy should belong to fewer people. When he talks about deporting 11m immigrants, or promises to build a database of Muslim Americans, or praises FDR’s internment of Japanese Americans during the second world war, or encourages violence against black protesters at his rallies, he’s making an argument about who counts as an American (native-born whites) and who doesn’t (everyone else). “Real” Americans get to enjoy the rights and privileges of citizenship; racial outsiders and internal enemies do not.

    This is certainly racist, and possibly fascist. It’s also profoundly anti-Democratic. It’s debatable how many of Trump’s campaign promises he could actually fulfill if elected, and how many he would even want to. But one indisputable effect of a Trump administration would be to diminish American democracy by lending credibility and resources to the forces of white supremacy and ultranationalism.

    I have a friend who’s a Libertarian and wonders why I always refer to him as a Repub. I’ll continue to use examples like this.

  98. 98.

    MattF

    July 21, 2016 at 9:58 am

    @Mike in NC: And after Putin re-Russifies those inconsequential little countries on the Baltic…

  99. 99.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    July 21, 2016 at 9:59 am

    @Dadadadadadada: Not seeing it now. Wonder if it was a glitch on Twitter’s part, sending the wrong account on the API call.

    I gotta admit, that’s a fascinating news aggregator. Choice selections:

    The Fortean Times’ editor on what makes a successful niche magazine

    The Cactus and the Beast: Investigating the role of peyote (mescaline) in the Magick of Aleister Crowley [M.A. Thesis]

  100. 100.

    amk

    July 21, 2016 at 9:59 am

    LOL. Wish the msm ‘reporters’ were all like you.

  101. 101.

    Rand Careaga

    July 21, 2016 at 10:00 am

    @Pogonip: Well, since you asked, The Diebold Variations from years ago. I’m actually agnostic on the subject of voting machine chicanery, but was amused at the notion of marketing it as a feature rather than a bug.

  102. 102.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    July 21, 2016 at 10:04 am

    The chants of “Lock Her Up” to fire up the crowd – how does that appeal to anyone other than the hardcore, talk radio crowd?

    @VOR: It appeals to virtually all Republicans and quite a few non-Republicans. Even my father, who is so appalled by Trump that he WILL be voting for Hillary in November, thinks she should be in jail over the email server issue.

    He’s ex-military (Vietnam) and I’ve tried to explain to him how things work in the modern military with IT issues and security – it’s what I do for a living – but he doesn’t accept it. In his world, classified was classified and you kept your fucking mouth shut and the documents in the safe or you’d go to jail. Which is a legit viewpoint. One could argue that both the Russian and Chinese stealth fighter jets would be still at windtunnel testing stages if not for what they stole from poorly secured US contractors networks, for example, and rightly so. But this is the world we have and the systems we have and classified doesn’t mean what it used to, even though none of the laws have changed. Gonna take a long time for the majority of the public to catch up to that kind of thinking.

  103. 103.

    MomSense

    July 21, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @Cermet:

    That happened when GW was still the decider.

  104. 104.

    Jeffro

    July 21, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @NonyNony:

    I strongly suspect that “did you support Trump” will also be a bottom-up requirement from Republican voters being imposed on Republican politicians. But it’s going to be the ones who can’t say “yes” who are going to feel the pain in the 2020 primary I suspect.

    We’ll see. I have a funny feeling that after seeing their chieftain get his mojo smacked into the ground this November, a notable number of Trump supporters will melt away, while another notable chunk will be attracted to Cruz’s “Donald was crude, unintelligent, and offensive…but his indictment of a ‘rigged system’ was on target” message for 2020.

    Cruz will also hide his true agenda behind a facade of ‘inclusion’ and ‘freedom’ gibberish…in fact, that may well be his campaign slogan in 2020. He was up there last night talking about a need for ‘love not anger’ with a straight face, fer Pete’s sake…

  105. 105.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 21, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @NorthLeft12: I was not confused.

  106. 106.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 21, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    How does one access the rest of that story? Only the first tweet shows up.

  107. 107.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 21, 2016 at 10:08 am

    @SFAW: Putin is doing it in direct response to the NATO expansion on Russia’s borders.

  108. 108.

    Jeffro

    July 21, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @Stan:

    It is a very well established political convention that “vote your conscience” means “ignore the usual calculations and do what you want”, i.e., its the opposite of an endorsement. It’s not a neutral statement at all.

    Exactly right.

    If it helps folks to ‘get it’ about what happened last night, just change the players to Democrats…

  109. 109.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 21, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @Leto: Thiel’s gay, isn’t he? Doesn’t he have a slight inkling of what might become of him in Trump’s America? Or does he think he’s rich enough to skate away? Or that Trump will be controllable after he’s purged the civil service, bypassed the judiciary, chucked our alliances and disposed of all other checks and balances to his power?

  110. 110.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 21, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @hovercraft:

    Drump being a builder seems to be the trump card so to speak.

    “Builder”? Fuck that. Real estate developer and “builder” aren’t the same at all. There’s been a massive retcon underway, abetted by scum like Donald Junior, wherein simple hardscrabble contractor Donald Trump raised himself up by his own drywall-hanging bootstraps. And it seems plausible somehow because Trump is so garish and classless that he seems to have been something other than to the manor born. But he was, pretty much literally.

  111. 111.

    Iowa Old Lady

    July 21, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @Mnemosyne: I used to edit a journal that mostly published articles by English professors. You want to see fights over commas, apostrophes, and pretty much every other part of copy editing, dare to edit an English prof.

  112. 112.

    amk

    July 21, 2016 at 10:10 am

    I read peter king of ny took ted bundy to task for not endorsing the deadbeat. So, after all the tough talk, this coward too surrendered?

  113. 113.

    Iowa Old Lady

    July 21, 2016 at 10:11 am

    @MattF: That slow leak is what I saw with Sanders supporters around here.

  114. 114.

    Amir Khalid

    July 21, 2016 at 10:11 am

    @MattF:
    The compound noun Dolchstoß literally means “a stab (Stoß) with a dagger (Dolch)”. It doesn’t actually specify whether the victim is being stabbed in the front or the back.

  115. 115.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 21, 2016 at 10:12 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    In his world, classified was classified and you kept your fucking mouth shut and the documents in the safe or you’d go to jail.

    But no one took the documents out of the safe this time either. At worst they mentioned that there were documents.

  116. 116.

    laura

    July 21, 2016 at 10:14 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: strunk & White’s Elements of Style is still a classic slim volume easy to read and apply.

  117. 117.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 10:14 am

    @Dadadadadadada: He’s rich. Like the Log Cabin republicans, he knows he can up stakes and live anywhere else in the world. His less fortunate brethren? Who cares. He’s got his.

  118. 118.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 21, 2016 at 10:14 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Leaking stealth-fighter tech to Russia and China was the patriotic thing to do. With any luck, all of our enemies will soon be wasting 70% of their defense budgets on that utterly useless dead end, just like we are.

  119. 119.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    July 21, 2016 at 10:16 am

    But no one took the documents out of the safe this time either. At worst they mentioned that there were documents.

    @FlipYrWhig: I know that. But they don’t. And we won’t win this discussion with these folks by quibbling over details, because they’re not looking for facts, they’re looking for reinforcement of an already deeply-held belief. So ignore it, let them yell about jailing her and wait for everyone to get tired of it, and move on.

  120. 120.

    NonyNony

    July 21, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @Jeffro:

    Cruz will also hide his true agenda behind a facade of ‘inclusion’ and ‘freedom’ gibberish…in fact, that may well be his campaign slogan in 2020

    a) No way in Hades does Cruz go that route. He doesn’t believe it and he can’t fake it. Plus it would alienate so many of his core supporters – remember that he’s the Real True Christian of the bunch.

    b) He has to win his Senate seat again in 2018 if he really wants a legit shot at the Oval Office in 2020. I’m putting a marker down right now that he’s going to get primaried hard. He’s made few friends in the Texas GOP establishment, and that won’t help him.

    And let’s keep in mind that by 2018 – assuming that Trump loses – we will be into our second year of SHE DEMON FROM HELL HILLARY CLINTON as President. Do you really think that the hard core Republicans will be thinking “well, I don’t care for Clinton, but at least she’s not Trump” by that point? Nope. The bad elements of Trump will have faded into the background in the face of the fact that “that woman” is president. And Cruz just set himself up to be the recipient of the stab-in-the-back “Ted Cruz elected Hillary Clinton by refusing to be a good Republican” attack.

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I suspect that even Republicans who refused to vote for Trump this year will be angry enough about a Clinton presidency – and that their memories of how godawful Trump would have been will have faded enough – that anyone who visibly didn’t get behind Trump is opening themselves up to a primary challenger who will be able to exploit that. And I think Cruz just set himself up to be the king of targets. We’ll see how it plays out.

  121. 121.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 10:17 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: How does he reconcile that with the fact that an ex-military secretary of state did the exact same thing? Or does Powell skate because he’s an ex-soldier?

  122. 122.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 10:18 am

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Not to Tweety, to him he is a builder which means he can re-build our infrastructure, but he mustn’t use the infrastructure word, he must emphasize the fact that he’s built things and created jobs, and ask Hillary what she has ever done. The fact that he has been in a building with drumps name on it makes him a builder. He’s a billionaire with a fabulous beautiful family who talks like a regular guy and many ‘working class’ voters are going to be impressed by him. Everything he’s ever done has been successful, so he can turn America around.

  123. 123.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 21, 2016 at 10:18 am

    @Emma: I guess that’s what he’s thinking, but I think he’s wrong. I mean, does it matter where you up stakes TO if Trump decides to send the SEALs after you? Or start a nuclear war?

  124. 124.

    rikyrah

    July 21, 2016 at 10:18 am

    From Redstate about last night:

    In fact, in response to the news that Cruz was going to make a speech that did not explicitly endorse him, Trump intentionally chose to escalate the situation by leaking the news to friendly delegations and instructing them to boo Cruz to make this a bigger deal that it otherwise would have been. If Trump’s delegates had not booed and caused a ruckus, but instead had remained silent or applauded at Cruz’s exhortation to vote for down ticket races, everyone today would be talking about Pence and his speech, and the discussion would be about positive things associated with Trump and Pence and how they are going to move forward after the convention to at least possible victory.

    But that is not what Trump’s supporters are interested in. They are interested in having a constant object of hatred and scorn, and it’s preferred if the target is a Republican. This is the driving force behind their support for Trump, principles be damned. Trump knows it too, which is why he was perfectly happy to let Ted Cruz go on stage, as long as the signal was clearly sent to his supporters that Ted Cruz is supposed to be the new object of hate.

  125. 125.

    Leto

    July 21, 2016 at 10:18 am

    @Emma: This.

  126. 126.

    rikyrah

    July 21, 2016 at 10:21 am

    @NonyNony:

    b) He has to win his Senate seat again in 2018 if he really wants a legit shot at the Oval Office in 2020. I’m putting a marker down right now that he’s going to get primaried hard. He’s made few friends in the Texas GOP establishment, and that won’t help him.

    Remember, Cruz only won a primary that was held in JULY.

    in 2018, it will be a regular Primary election in Texas……

    So, yeah, he’s gonna get primaried.

  127. 127.

    Leto

    July 21, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @Emma: Powell skates because his last name isn’t Clinton, and the symbol after his name is all that matters. (-R) The fact that he basically deleted his entire server also doesn’t matter.

    @Dadadadadadada: No, but I’m sure he thinks he can control him, or that his handlers won’t let that happen. I’m sure Dr. Frankenstein never intended to have his creation run amok, but hey, it is what it is.

  128. 128.

    burnspbesq

    July 21, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @Cermet:

    Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: Putting anti-ballistic missiles in Eastern Europe was criminal and frankly, insane. Yes President Obama – I’m looking at you. Make the ONLY country in the world outside of us that has thousands of ICBM’s nervous and trigger happy – so fucking stupid! My only – Obama really fucked up really and in a monstrously big time manner. Yeah, ending all human life if the Russians panic makes any sense at all to protect Europe from Iranian missiles that DON’T FUCKING EXIST and WON”T

    Wrong in every way possible.

  129. 129.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 10:23 am

    If there was a trap set for Cruz someone forgot to tell the kids. They were not amused.

    Ivanka Trump is widely known as The Donald’s composed, picture-perfect daughter – but Wednesday night the world saw a different side as she contorted her face and jabbed her finger accusingly following Ted Cruz’s controversial speech.
    In a floral-themed white dress, the mother-of-three looked furious as the Texas senator refused to endorse her father during the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio.
    And she wasn’t the only one. The fiercely loyal Trump clan – made up of Ivanka’s sister-in-law Lara, her half-sister Tiffany, brother Donald Jr. and his wife Vanessa – all flanked the businesswoman and shared looks of sheer disdain.

    Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3700701/The-moment-Ivanka-lost-cool-Normally-picture-perfect-daughter-j…
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  130. 130.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 10:25 am

    Help please, I’m stuck in moderation. Thanks

  131. 131.

    Amir Khalid

    July 21, 2016 at 10:27 am

    @laura:
    @schrodinger’s cat:
    But take what it says with a grain of salt. In fact that’s how you should treat all the popular prescriptivist grammar/usage guides. It helps to read a few of them to help you form a sense of how English works. But none of them is the whole truth on such matters. If a rule laid down in any one of them doesn’t make sense to you, feel free to disregard it.

  132. 132.

    trollhattan

    July 21, 2016 at 10:27 am

    @FlipYrWhig:
    “Steel girders or noodles? Why should I care? I got structural guys for that. Where are the gold toilets going?”

    –Trump, da developer.

  133. 133.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    July 21, 2016 at 10:28 am

    How does he reconcile that with the fact that an ex-military secretary of state did the exact same thing? Or does Powell skate because he’s an ex-soldier?

    @Emma: Never brought it up. Not going to, either, as he’s going to vote the right way and I have nothing to gain and everything to lose by rubbing his nose in the facts. People tend to respond extremely poorly to that kind of treatment. I know I do.

  134. 134.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 10:29 am

    If there was a trap set for Cruz someone forgot to tell the kids. They were not amused.

    Ivanka Trump is widely known as The Donald’s composed, picture-perfect daughter – but Wednesday night the world saw a different side as she contorted her face and jabbed her finger accusingly following Ted Cruz’s controversial speech.
    the mother-of-three looked furious as the Texas senator refused to endorse her father during the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio.
    And she wasn’t the only one. The fiercely loyal Trump clan – made up of Ivanka’s sister-in-law Lara, her half-sister Tiffany, brother Donald Jr. and his wife Vanessa – all flanked the businesswoman and shared looks of sheer disdain.

  135. 135.

    trollhattan

    July 21, 2016 at 10:31 am

    @Mike in NC:
    At that point Trump will have become the Neville Chamberlain the Republicans are always hauling out to compare every Democrat living and dead, against.

  136. 136.

    D58826

    July 21, 2016 at 10:31 am

    @Leto: But isn’t Thiel part of the ‘other’? He is gay. Or like all autocrats he makes an exception for because he is a special snowflake.

  137. 137.

    hovercraft

    July 21, 2016 at 10:33 am

    Nigel Farage, stil a dick

    The outgoing Ukip leader claimed Mr Obama influenced the British public to vote Leave after strongly urging the country to stay in the EU.
    Speaking at the US Republican Party’s national convention in Cleveland, Ohio, he told delegates the president’s suggestion Britain would go to the “back of the queue” for a US trade deal if it left had helped the Brexit campaign.

    Mr Farage said: “I think it is a big mistake for foreign politicians to tell people how to vote and how to think.

    So thank you, Obama, for helping us to win this referendum
    “Obama came to the UK during the Brexit debate and actually I shall always be eternally grateful to Obama because he came to our country, he was rude to us, he told us what to do and he led to a big Brexit bounce of several points.

    “So thank you, Obama, for helping us to win this referendum.”

  138. 138.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 10:33 am

    @Dadadadadadada: Of course he’s wrong. But, let’s face it, we allow the wealthy to get away with all sorts of crap, including buying legislation, with immunity. Why should he think any different? It will take a personal catastrophe before he gets it.

  139. 139.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 10:34 am

    @Amir Khalid: I know how English works, its the punctuation that sometimes trips me up.

  140. 140.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 10:36 am

    @Leto: I got that. I was just curious whether Congratulations has brought it up in conversation.

    (edited due to brain fart)

  141. 141.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 10:36 am

    Thanks for the suggestions. I am not too fond of Strunk and White.

  142. 142.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 10:38 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Agreed. Though I wish sometimes we could honestly have such conversations. Oh well. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

  143. 143.

    amk

    July 21, 2016 at 10:38 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Good point. As long as he is going to voter for her, no need to score points.

  144. 144.

    Immanentize

    July 21, 2016 at 10:40 am

    @p.a.: More commas!! I’m an Oxford man!

    (Well,I am wearing an Oxford shirt?)

  145. 145.

    Gelfling 545

    July 21, 2016 at 10:41 am

    @raven: I’m pretty sure that when they previewed Cruz’s prepared speech they didn’t think “vote your conscience” would be a problem as they don’t know anyone who actually has such a thing.

  146. 146.

    bryan

    July 21, 2016 at 10:51 am

    @Cermet: I haven’t followed the issue much since then, but during the fall term of 2007 (still during the Bush admin) I was taking Prof. Ted Postol’s class on nuclear warfare and missile defense, and this policy was already being implemented then. Much of the class was spent on Professor Postol’s critique of the policy, and of the whole concept of ballistic missile defense in general.

  147. 147.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    July 21, 2016 at 10:52 am

    Though I wish sometimes we could honestly have such conversations.

    @Emma: I’m curious as to why. We know, from decades of experiments, that all those “conversations” do is get people – both of the liberal and conservative persuasion – to dig into their already-existing belief systems and ‘talking points’ harder. So why have them when at best they are counterproductive?

  148. 148.

    catclub

    July 21, 2016 at 10:53 am

    @NonyNony:

    he’ll be able to make the case that it wasn’t a stab-in-the-back but rather that Trump was a LOOOOSER and it won’t matter.

    This certainly worked for Trump vis a vis Romney this year.

  149. 149.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 21, 2016 at 10:53 am

    @Amir Khalid: For example, Loki was facing Thor when he stabbed him.

  150. 150.

    Mnemosyne

    July 21, 2016 at 10:55 am

    @rikyrah:

    But that is not what Trump’s supporters are interested in. They are interested in having a constant object of hatred and scorn, and it’s preferred if the target is a Republican.

    Change a couple of names and affiliations and this sounds like very common political behavior from both sides.

  151. 151.

    Leto

    July 21, 2016 at 10:55 am

    @Emma: There are times when I’ll bring it up and the usual response is, “Oh yeah, that’s bad and it shouldn’t have happened, but we have to do something about it now.” Why is this case different? What makes it special? Oh…

  152. 152.

    Mnemosyne

    July 21, 2016 at 10:57 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    What actually works is asking the other person to explain what they think the situation is rather than confronting them. Studies have shown that people can talk themselves out of what they thought were strongly held positions and are then more open to actual facts.

  153. 153.

    Amir Khalid

    July 21, 2016 at 10:59 am

    @Emma:
    All the major dictionary publishers put out their own punctuation guide books. You could start there. My own favourite punctuation-specific work is G.V. Carey’s Mind The Stop. But that might be a bit too British English for your tastes. The fine points of punctuation, grammar, and usage are ultimately very personal to the writer. Your prose should feel like your own.

  154. 154.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 11:01 am

    @Leto: Yeah. And the hypocrisy isn’t even noticed. I’ve decided that my answer will be: if you agree to trying everyone who did it, be my guest. If not, I will fight you on it even if it’s with real weapons.

  155. 155.

    Emma

    July 21, 2016 at 11:02 am

    @Amir Khalid: Uh?

  156. 156.

    Leto

    July 21, 2016 at 11:03 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: I’ll answer for myself and say, it’s because I still hold out hope that people can be reasoned with and will “see the light”, as they say. I look at our blog host and think, it can be done. We’re supposed to be the party of logical thinkers, so there has to be a way to connect with them.

    But there’s also the part of me that just loves to troll, so I’ll occasionally do that too.

  157. 157.

    Humdog

    July 21, 2016 at 11:04 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: of course you have to do what is best for your relationship with your father, but this really sounds like a cop out. If your dad is being hypocritical, pointing it out gently may make him think about his hypocrisy and be embarrassed enough by it to change. Pointing it out harshly and with disdain will not, but I would like to think we all help those we love be their best selves. How else does someone learn? Pointing out that a respected military officer took similar steps to Hillary’s actions isn’t an insult to anyone.

  158. 158.

    Aleta

    July 21, 2016 at 11:13 am

    I wonder how the kid reporters covering the convention for National Scholastic are handling it all. I hope their moms or dads packed earplugs for them.

  159. 159.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 21, 2016 at 11:14 am

    @Cermet: In informal Internet writing I’m starting to see avoidance of comma splices as slightly stilted and unnatural.

  160. 160.

    J R in WV

    July 21, 2016 at 11:20 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Strunk and White “Elements of Style” was what my good English teacher used way back in… 1967. English changes over time, but I don’t imagine Elements of Style is out of date yet. A small book, packed with all the rules. American English, of course.

    And some people do argue about some of what they recommend, but that’s academia. Unless you’re writing an English dissertation I doubt anyone still counts commas, though. There is an on-going battle over the “Oxford comma” which I don’t understand well enough to describe.

    I grew up in a house full of writers, and so I depend to a large extent on feel for my correctness. I don’t know my pluperfects or subjunctives or gerunds that well. But my feel is successful enough that I think I do OK for writing. My grants got approved almost every time, so there’s that.

  161. 161.

    Aimai

    July 21, 2016 at 11:25 am

    @hovercraft: read that as PATSY white supporters which wofks well too.

  162. 162.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 11:28 am

    @J R in WV: My grammar and punctuation has been adequate to get me through most professional and academic situations. I am working on book right now and I just thought a brushing up of the rules learned a long time ago would be good.

  163. 163.

    Randy P

    July 21, 2016 at 11:34 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: As you probably know, what happened with a couple of emails (information on unclassified servers that somebody after the fact decides is classified) is called “data spillage”. It has a name and associated policies and procedures. Those policies probably include a mandatory scolding from your boss and somebody in Security. Nobody calls it a crime, let alone treason.

    Also, Petraeus. Who committed actual criminal leakage of classified info. How does your dad feel about him?

    Or the outing of Valerie Plame?

  164. 164.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 11:35 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: * a book. Stupid WP, it won’t let me edit my comment.

  165. 165.

    Feathers

    July 21, 2016 at 11:44 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: The book I like is The New Well-Tempered Sentence: A Punctuation Handbook for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed. The problem for me is that most grammar and punctuation guides assume you are writing a very spare newspaper style prose, which I generally don’t. This book uses humorously florid examples, closer to my own tastes. Here’s what it says about commas:

    A comma is a delicate kink in time, a pause within a sentence, a chance to catch your breath. A curvaceous acrobat, it capers over the page. A comma keeps apart two words, or bits of thought, that would confuse if they touched. Some of the instances calling for commas are inflexible, and the only way to get around them is to find another way to state and arrange your ideas. Other uses, though, are intended to make the reader’s experiences easier, and are up to the writer’s discretion or whim.

    I had a job where copyediting was one of the potential paths for advancement, so I did do some studying in the area before realizing that I don’t have the “eyes” for it. The most useful point I learned is that there is a reason every magazine, newspaper, and publisher has their own style guide: the point of punctuation is to recreate the author’s “voice” on the page, and people have differing patterns of speech. Getting good enough to let go of the rules is a great deal of work.

    Best wishes on your book! Do you have an idea of where it will be published or who you will be submitting it to? If so, you might want to find out what their favorite style guide is. At the pro level you are dealing with style guides, not grammar rule books. And for these purposes, Strunk & White is too old and incomplete to be relied on.

  166. 166.

    J R in WV

    July 21, 2016 at 11:48 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Well , as Amir said above, the language is flexible. If you’re consistent, you’re good. Having read your writing short form, I’m sure your long form is OK too.

    Especially with commas, which everyone has a different feel for. If you fear that you have a comma splice, which is about the only universally recognized rule, try it with a period or semicolon. Either is OK for repairing a comma splice, I usually try the semicolon, and if that works for me I change it to two sentences with a period followed by a capital letter. But a semicolon is OK to fix a comma splice AFAIK.

  167. 167.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 12:26 pm

    @Feathers:

    If so, you might want to find out what their favorite style guide is. At the pro level you are dealing with style guides, not grammar rule books. And for these purposes, Strunk & White is too old and incomplete to be relied on.

    I thought so, that’s why I asked BC the question, since I admire her prose. My book is in early stages. Its a part memoir, part oral history of my family intertwined with the history of the city about which Kipling
    wrote:

    Mother of Cities to me,
    For I was born in her gate,
    Between the palms and the sea,
    Where the world-end steamers wait

  168. 168.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Especially with commas, which everyone has a different feel for. If you fear that you have a comma splice, which is about the only universally recognized rule, try it with a period or semicolon. Either is OK for repairing a comma splice, I usually try the semicolon, and if that works for me I change it to two sentences with a period followed by a capital letter. But a semicolon is OK to fix a comma splice AFAIK.

    That’s what I do too. But I find that I am double guessing myself at times. So a quick review would be good, I think. I have more than enough suggestions to start with in this thread itself.

  169. 169.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 21, 2016 at 12:39 pm

    @hovercraft: So Farage, a foreign (to us) politician, attends a political convention in a country not his own, in order to tell a bunch of (to him) foreigners how to vote. In that speech, he leads with “foreign politicians shouldn’t tell people how to vote.”
    The hypocrisy, the stupid, it burns. Burns, I tell you.

  170. 170.

    Feathers

    July 21, 2016 at 12:43 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Then Well Tempered Sentence would probably work well for you. There is also The Transitive Vampire: A Handbook of Grammar for the Innocent, the Eager and the Doomed. I found it much more helpful when writing fiction and creative non-fiction than the academic/newspaper/magazine guides.

  171. 171.

    SFAW

    July 21, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I can’t tell if you’re being serious, or just channeling BiP, or what.

  172. 172.

    SFAW

    July 21, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @Feathers:

    Transvestite Vampires? What will they think of next?

    ETA: And of course, the vampire’s name would be “Dragula.”

    No, that’s not an original from me. NatLamp, 1970s vintage.

  173. 173.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 21, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @Feathers: Thanks, I will look them up.

  174. 174.

    Bill Arnold

    July 21, 2016 at 6:57 pm

    @p.a.:
    The classic missing Oxford comma making the rounds is “This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God”.
    There is decent pro/con collection at The Best Shots Fired in the Oxford Comma Wars (2013)
    (My personal favorite is the last one)

  175. 175.

    Bill Arnold

    July 21, 2016 at 9:29 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    In his world, classified was classified and you kept your fucking mouth shut and the documents in the safe or you’d go to jail.

    This we do know – Russian intruders were within the official state department unclassified email system from 2007 (maybe earlier) to 2014. . (Or at least it has been so reported.)

    Mrs. Clinton’s best defense, and one she cannot utter in public, is that whatever the risks of keeping her own email server, that server was certainly no more vulnerable than the State Department’s. Had she held an unclassified account in the State Department’s official system, as the rules required, she certainly would have been hacked.
    Russian intruders were thoroughly inside that system for years — since at least 2007 — before the State Department shut its system down several times to perform a digital exorcism in late 2014, nearly two years after Mrs. Clinton left office.

    I only know that because I read the whole article; most people probably missed it.

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