Some folks argue that if you’re focused on who wins the DNC Chair election today, you’re doing it wrong. That’s a valid point, IMO. There’s not that much difference between the candidates’ plans. Everyone seems to agree job #1 is rebuilding the party at the state level. The chair post is not really all that important in the scheme of things.
Few people would give a damn about the outcome if the race hadn’t morphed into a proxy battle between the Obama/Clinton wing and the Sanders faction. A hint of that was on display at a local party function I recently attended. Two officials somewhat passive-aggressively made their case before an audience of largely new folks who seemed baffled and indifferent. I found their bafflement and indifference encouraging.
Weigel in the WaPo summed it up as follows:
On policy and on their prescriptions for the party, Perez and Ellison have few substantive differences. Ellison has taken pains in public forums to say that Perez was “an ally” in the Obama administration; both men have promised to pour resources into state and territorial Democratic parties, reversing what was seen as a trend toward centralization during the Obama years.
But outside of the DNC, progressive writers and organizers have begun to ring alarms about an Ellison defeat. On Friday morning, a number of groups that had endorsed Ellison, including MoveOn.org, 350 Action and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, asked DNC members “to be heroes” and back the congressman’s campaign.
“If Keith Ellison is DNC Chair, we can hit the ground running — and because of the pre-existing trust that exists between Keith and the grassroots, every state party would have a head start harnessing the power of the resistance,” they wrote.
I’ll be fine with whoever wins, but the framing in the quote above chaps my ass a little since it implies the Berniecrats own the resistance, which they do not. The resistance belongs to each and every person who got off of his or her ass and took to the streets. And millions of us were middle-aged ladies who voted for Clinton in the primary. Balloon Juice favorite Glenn Greenwald put it in even more offensive terms:
“If the plan to sink Ellison succeeds, the message that will be heard — fairly or not — is that the Democratic Party continues to venerate loyalty to its oligarchical donors above all else.”
That’s a steaming load of horseshit. Perez is a highly qualified candidate, and for many Democrats, his connection with a successful, incredibly popular two-term Democratic president is a decisive factor. End of fucking story.
On the other side of the coin, Alan Dershowitz, who is a giant, spraying douchenozzle and Fox News regular, says he’ll leave the party if Ellison is elected and encourage other “centrist Democrats” to leave with him. In later comments on his favorite network, Dershowitz said the following:
I will not be a member of a party that represents itself through a chairman like Keith Ellison and through policies like that espoused by John Kerry and Barack Obama.
So now it’s not just Ellison but Kerry and Obama too? Sounds like the Republican Party really is a better fit for Dershowitz, and I doubt he’ll have many “centrist Democrats” trailing him as he exits stage right.
The bottom line for me: I’ll support whomever wins. We have an honest-to-Christ unhinged demagogue to oppose. That’s what matters.
In the meantime, here’s a survey to capture participant consensus on who will win today’s vote: UPDATE: Survey results:
Seems to me it could go either way, but we really can’t go wrong, IMO. Both leading candidates have much to offer, and there’s a lot of work to be done, so let’s get past this, lose the butt-hurt and get to work. Open thread!
schrodingers_cat
GG is a Putin stooge, why do we care what he has to say.
Corner Stone
I vote to kick him the fuck out before the election is decided.
Corner Stone
Oh, man! No Joy on AMJoy today? W T F
I like Capeheart just fine but he’s no Joy.
Buskertype
Both candidates are great… personally I think I would vote for Ellison, but Perez is great, and far as I can tell the guy from Indiana is great too.
Let’s just get on with it
Shantanu Saha
I will vote for whoever vows to publicly tear up Dershowitz’s membership card and physically kick his raggedy ass out of the Democratic Party.
debit
Ellison is my rep and I like him, but honest to dog, if he loses you bet your ass I’ll be watching how he handles himself. He should know after last year’s elections just how much Minneapolis in particular just loves primarying the incumbent.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m with you on this one, Betty. Anyone who sees this election as a line in the sand deserves to spend four years walking around carrying Susan Sarandon’s handbag for her.
Corner Stone
I think these preening camera whores in the WHPC should all show their ass and as a group decide to not return to the WH “gaggle” next time or at all, for that matter.
Of course, they won’t because…”preening camera whore” and all.
Hildebrand
Best choice is to go with Pete Buttigieg. Listened to him on the ‘Pod Save America’ podcast a week or so back, thoughtful, savvy, creative, organized, progressive, and very comfortable doing the media thing.
Corner Stone
@debit: Do you see him (Ellison) doing something unhelpful? I never got that impression from him but all I see is on the teebee, so.
amk
fuck tbogg.
Corner Stone
As long as it is not Ed Rendell I will take just about anyone in this spot. I would prefer a young-ish black woman or woman of color but, IMO, no old white male party hacks please.
Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)
Basically as long as they all plan to take inspiration & direction from the grass roots & follow what the black & brown women have already figured out, I’m good.
Just One More Canuck
GG said something that’s a steaming pile of horseshit? Must be a day that ends in “y”
Hal
I thought Dershowitz was a Republican. Huh.
Why does Bernie have so much influence again? I would be more accepting if he had stayed a Democrat, but he didn’t, so why give his opinion so much weight? If only his son had endorsed Tom Perez.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/01/bernie_sanders_snubs_wisniewski_in_nj_governors_race.html
Tom Levenson
I’m easy w. our top choices, but anything that pisses off Dershowitz is fine by me. Of course, anything that pisses off Greenwald is fine by me too. Hence the Democrats’ dilemma!
Iowa Old Lady
@Corner Stone: I was just reading that Bloomburg has pulled its sponsorship of this year’s correspondents’ dinner. It’ll be interesting to see who turns up.
different-church-lady
ELLISON HAS MY SUPPORT!!!
TaMara (HFG)
Ellison or Perez? Bring it on. Both look seem like they are ready to kick ass and take names. I’m with them.
Aimai
@Hal: what the fuck is wrong with Bernie?! Oh, I know, same as it ever was. He is an asshole who has no real interest in actual electoral politics and coalition building.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Anyone who thinks that post-W Greenwald is a friend of Democrats and Democratic ideals needs to review driftglass’s reminder of what GG has said about that.
Greenwald is an enemy of people who want to see real-world political progress in the USA.
Cheers,
Scott.
debit
@Corner Stone: It could be my personal bias. He was a hard core Bernie supporter and I held it against him that he waited so long to endorse Hillary. I know, I know, this is not a Bernie vs HIllary thing. But if he only offers lukewarm support to the victor (assuming it’s not him) I’m going to remember it.
PsiFighter37
I really don’t care all that much. To be honest, both candidates bother me to varying degrees. Perez has done great work but really seemed to jump in only because the establishment Democrats seemed to absolutely want anyone other than Ellison. Ellison bothers me because he seems to be of the general same vein as Bernie – says lots of the right things but has never really been front and center of any of the big agenda items that were of focus during Obama’s presidency.
I do wonder why Dean dropped out so quickly. He was the most successful DNC chair that I can recall in the past quarter century. Yes, I know he sold out a bit and was doing some lobbyist work, but the man absolutely knows/knew what it took to build the party from the ground up. I am not very convinced – at all – that the folks currently running will do a better job. And I can understand why state / local Democrats are livid at OFA – having it act as a parallel organization outside of the DNC is completely redundant and unnecessary. That was a huge mistake after 2008…first order of business should have been to fold the entirety of OFA into the DNC.
We absolutely have to be on the ball and ready to capitalize on the fail Trump is going to be for the next 4 years so we can re-gain ground at the state level, and most importantly, have a much larger hand in redistricting in 2020. I am concerned we are going to be losing ground here. And you can call me a sellout, but I do wish we had someone the likes of Rahm and Schumer running the DCCC and DSCC. Those fuckers brought guns to a gun fight and won big, even if we didn’t personally like them a hell of a lot.
ThresherK
Alan Dershowitz, who is a giant, spraying douchenozzle and Fox News regular, says he’ll leave the party if Ellison is elected and encourage other “centrist Democrats” to leave with him.
Let’s fund Kickstarter to rent him an airport shuttle bus so he and all his “centrist Democrat” friends can leave in one group.
patrick II
If there is so little difference, why did Obama push Perez into the race when he saw that Ellison was most likely going to be the DNC chair?
Jinchi
I’m always surprised when I learn Dershowitz is a member of the Democratic Party. This is a man who has been speaking and writing in defense of torture since at least the late 1980’s, long before most torture apologists had the excuse of 9/11 to fall back on.
Schlemazel
Your poll needs a 4th option
O – I don’t give a fuck either way.
Both are as you say & either will be good at the job & fuck the destroyers that want this to be a blood feud. They are helping nobody but th4 GOP
chris
@debit: If Ellison wins who will take his place? IIRC he said he would resign from congress if he won the chair.
Another Scott
@Hal: Wilmer has shown for months (and probably much longer) that he’s all about Wilmer. How many House and Senate seats did he campaign for in the 2016 cycle? 3? That many? :-/
I’ve been impressed with what O’Malley’s been doing the last few months. He’s out there working for Democratic candidates and letting his earlier supporters know (I get an e-mail from him at least once a week).
More of this, please.
Cheers,
Scott.
danielx
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, fuckwit.
Jinchi
@Tom Levenson:
Best to avoid creating a left-wing version of Cleek’s law or we’ll end up with our own Milo Yiannopolous.
Hildebrand
@PsiFighter37: Dean has endorsed Buttigieg – that should say something about who he thinks has the necessary skill set and vision to herd the cats.
JPL
@Jinchi:Well CPAC members said the alt-right is the creation of the left, so how soon will they say that Milo is a socialist.
NCSteve
I’m not automatically against anyone or anything the PCC is for. However, anything or anyone they are for carries a rebuttable presumption of tactical and strategic imbecility that, as far as I can tell, the presumption has never been rebutted.
Okay, I’m holding back. I spit on the ground at the mention of the very name of Joe Lieberman. But the PCC’s Firebagger antecedents were the ones who successfully primaried Lieberman in ’06 but had absolutely no plan–none, zero, zip, nada, bupkis–for how they would beat him when he, inevitably, ran as an independent. Even in the face of actions by Lieberman indicating clear intent to do just that, and even knowing that they were primarying him because he was such a nasty, vindictive, self-absorbed little shitweasel, their plan was “oh, after we’re done villifying and defeating a vindictive, small-minded, self-righteous, vain little prick, we’re sure he’ll step aside like a good Democrat.”
And there, in a nutshell, is the very thing that makes those who are the PCC the useless, dangerous flame-thrower wielding children they are. Which is, of course, why they view the people closest to them ideologically as their worst enemies.
Schlemazel
Unity is key. Remember, individually we are weak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp8_FzJO458
Jinchi
@danielx:
It is a little odd that he’ll bail if Ellison is elected DNC chairman, but he didn’t bail when Obama was literally president of the United States. It’s almost as though he’s full of BS.
debit
@chris: No clue. I haven’t heard any names put forth for what I assume would be a special election. As I said, I like him, but…how can I put this? Every time I’ve contacted his office I’ve heard nothing in response. Not even a beg for money. You would think a rep would be more responsive than a senator, right?
So here’s a story. I work in a tax office. I had a vet come in with multiple years of issues with the IRS, who was being levied to the point of destitution. He was desperate. I called Klobuchar’s office, Ellison’s office and Franken’s office. Franken’s office responded within two hours with a contact name and phone number in the tax payer’s advocate office, someone who was fully up to speed on the situation and had it resolved in a matter of days. Further, Franken’s office followed up with me a week later to make sure everything was taken care of. I never heard back from anyone else.
Another Scott
BTW, I voted in the Survey but I don’t see any way to see the results. I hope you’ll do a followup, BC.
Cheers,
Scott.
billcoop4
@debit:
Which tells one a lot about all three, especially Franken. I think he’s pondering 2020, but I hope he focuses visibly and loudly on 2018 (and continues the focus on the Corruption.
WMC
danielx
OT – 42 degree change in temperature overnight and voila! There’s the Indiana winter I know and loathe!
MoxieM
I like Perez, but think Ellison will win b/c people are afraid of the Bernie anger crap. I, like many have lost friends–more ghosting than explosions, but it’s kind of a: they no longer talk to me after I expressed support for HRC and said I thought she had done a lot of good in her life. And this was after the election! They just can’t get past the anger, and the need for an idol to worship. I don’t think Bernie has been bad, over his career–and I’m glad he’s voted with the Dems more or less. But on its own his record hardly stands out for great moral courage or leadership.
I’m hopeful that if Ellison wins, he has more gumption, and more leadership ability–and, crucially, the ability to raise money. It’s like a college presidency–a little directed leadership, a bunch of smoothing ruffled feathers, and a whole lot of fundraising. For me, those are the criteria. I suspect both Perez and Ellison are smart enough to try and keep a rift from developing in the non-Trumpeteers (Bernie or die, or rational resistors).
But I’m curious, numerically, how many of the Bernie or die holdouts are really there, or do they just make a huge noise? Based on the Women’s Marches, there are one helluva lot of generally rational resistors (of course, my demographic is Northeast middle aged white lady, so what do I know?)
Schlemazel
@NCSteve:
How would you have gotten better Dems? The was a very good candidate, a real Democrat & money was poured onto winning him the primary and enough that he should have been good for the general. If you think primarying JL was so bad how do you propose to remove crappy Democrats? Particularly at that moment in time when it appeared there was a chance to do so? The tactic has worked admirably for the GOP but I guess we just need to leave the Leibermans of the party in place & live with the consequences.
Another Scott
@debit: Thanks for that story.
Al seems very, very good. I’ve always liked him and usually send him a little money when he’s running.
He’s a credit to MN and to the Senate. We need more people like him.
Cheers,
Scott.
Buskertype
One thing I think it’s very important for democrats to do right now is to say “We are the party of patriotism. The republicans are attacking our military, our intelligence agencies, our free press, comparing us to Russia, attacking fundamental constitutional rights. We, democrats, are the party of freedom and patriotism.”
JMG
@debit: It is possible there’s co-ordination between offices and once one has responded to a constituent request, the others are informed so they can focus on other requests. Not saying that happened in your case, but it seems like something which might happen in a well-run Congressional delegation.
MattF
I like Perez– he’s a local guy from the Maryland suburbs.
And– if I may have the honor of saying so– that quote from GG shows precisely why no one should trust him or believe anything he says.
Schlemazel
@debit:
I had an issue with the customs people & had the exact same experience. Franken yes, AK & KE, nope.
Corner Stone
@MoxieM:
Great, thanks. Now you’ve got me earwormed into singing Korn’s Twisted Transistor in my head.
randy khan
If I have to choose between annoying GG and annoying Dershowitz . . . Hey, how about co-chairs?
schrodingers_cat
BS did everything he could to undermine HRC long after he had a chance of winning and his behavior since the election has not impressed me. Electing KE would be like rewarding BS and his associates behavior, like those electors who wrote Collin Powell’s name when the electoral college voted.
beergoggles
While some of Ellison’s backers may be questionable, I enjoy that he pisses off the right enemies. So I’m somewhat rooting for him because of it.
chris
@debit: Thanks. I was hoping that there was some shining star on the horizon. Thanks for the story too, says a lot for Franken.
debit
@Schlemazel: Yep. I wrote him a glowing letter of thanks afterward. I hope his staff was rewarded, even if it was just pats on the back. They do good work.
Lyrebird
@Jinchi: Good point. Dershowitz is 79 yrs old (per Wikipedia) and somewhere in the 1990’s I think he started showing signs of the “moral compass” part of his brain, either that or he really did plagiarize Finkelstein (see Wiki.) in the writings that showed a moral compass in evidence.
Defense lawyers of his stripe always put me off, but I am really glad there are individuals willing to defend repugnant whatchacallems. . . defendants.
Greenwald is 30 yrs younger than Dershowitz, and while I thought he was having a post-9-11 conversion experience (way back then) somewhat like JG Cole’s, it doesn’t seem to have turned out that way.
I do rather hope someone fires Mary Matalin’s husband. (due to poor job performance, not because they’re in a mixed-party marriage! Can remember his skull-like visage but not his name.)
Corner Stone
@Buskertype: I disagree and would suggest that message is somewhere near the bottom of the Top Ten messaging ideas the D party should be focused on.
It doesn’t do anything for anybody. It doesn’t flip an R vote and Ind voters have shown they don’t care about the country as a whole, just the piece that’s in front of their nose.
geg6
I am on Team Perez, but I sign on to every word here, Betty. Resist! With all your resources, resist!
delk
I have a problem with politicians not finishing out their terms. I don’t care if it is a republican, democrat, or independent. Nor do I care what the reason is that is stopping them from finishing their term.
If you ask me to vote for you, to donate money, to knock on doors for you then you should at least stick around and do the job.
Baud
If people don’t leave over this, they’ll leave over something else. Better sooner than later. We have excellent liberal candidates to choose from. Let me be the first to offer my support to the winner and to thank everyone else who cared enough to run.
Schlemazel
@debit:
I had nice interactions with Franken’s staff. I had several run-ins with Klobuchers, particularly when she was voting for W’s stuff. They lied to me (more than once) about her votes and were rather snotty when I pointed out her votes were recorded & published. I have had no interaction with Ellison’s staff, it just never came up.
Keith Kennedy
There has been a long debate in the Democratic Party about whether we “move toward the center” or fight like hell for progressive policies. Which clouds our goals. Our we in favor of progressive policies but willing to water them down in order to win…. I’m on the “go big, go bold, go progressive” end of the debate. And I support Ellison. I will certainly stay in the fight and support Democrats across the board if Perez wins, but I do not think this is a meaningless decision.
Emma
Jesus. The country’s being swallowed whole by the Borg and we’re fighting over who gets to play boss of a semi-powerless committee.
Keith G
@schrodingers_cat: No, that’s just not true. In fact, that rises to Trumpian levels of falsehood.
I spend a lot of time listening to and reading what former Obama insiders have to say about the dynamics of the past race. And I have yet to find one of them who directly or by implication says anything amounting do that.
Tellingly, about the only place I go where sentiments like this are regular aired is here.
Edit…@Emma: Thank you!!
Schlemazel
@Emma:
Bingo!
schrodingers_cat
@Keith Kennedy: In what universe is Tom Perez not a liberal/and or progressive. Oh yes the one peopled by BS supporters where one can be a liberal and/or progressive only if he is personally anointed by the Senator from Vt.
geg6
@Keith Kennedy:
So what, exactly, makes Ellison’s positions more bold and progressive than Perez’s?
Aimai
@beergoggles: see that is really a dumb reason to vote. Spite voting or annoying people is no way to build a winning coalition.
schrodingers_cat
@Keith G: BS can do no wrong, he can only be wronged, if I disagree than you resort to low level name calling. Nice going.
Major Major Major Major
I like Perez better because he has executive experience, but what I really look forward to, if Perez wins, is hearing about this race at the local level interminably for the next two months, just like the last two, since if there’s one thing San Francisco progressives love it’s a perceived grudge.
patrick II
I am mildly for Perez. An important part of what the DNC chair does is act as the face of the party on the various news shows. I have seen them both, and Perez did a much better job of clearly and thoughtfully answering questions. Simply put I think he would be a more eloquent speaker when called for.
But I am generally ignorant of other differences between them as far as policy goes, but they claim there isn’t much. But then (as I asked earlier) was Perez pushed into the race by Obama?
Baud
@Emma: I also offer my thanks. The especially funny (as in weird, not funny as in haha) is that DNC chair is (or is supposed to be) a non-ideological position.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: You might have to escape to Iceland again.
geg6
@Keith G:
You must not get out much. Or you don’t know many women, of all colors. Because I certainly hear it everywhere I go with the exception of among white “progressive” males.
schrodingers_cat
@Keith G: Since you accused me of lying please point the lie.
1.BS continued running long after he was mathematically impossible to win
2.He went on and on about HRC and DNC’s crooked dealings, Wall Street speeches etc. His followers conducted a jihad against DWS.
3.Promptly changed party affiliation after the election was over.
Villago Delenda Est
Look, both of these guys will do just fine.
But Ellison is a huge, in your face, FUCK YOU, to Donald and his Islamophobic fuckwits. Eat shit and die, Donald, Bannon, Kelleyanne, Rinse, Flynn, Hucksterbee, evangelical “Christians” who take a shit on Jesus every time they open their pie holes.
Shalimar
@Hal: Every tv appearance for Dershowitz I have seen in the last 15 years has been to talk about how awesome torture is and ticking bombs and such. Easy to mistake him for a Republican, but I think his role has been the Fox Dem who allows them to say both sides agree with them that torture is great.
eta: Dershowitz was always famous for his civil liberties cases more than anything, so we only called him a Democrat because that is what he called himself. He could have just as easily been a libertarian douchebag to begin with.
Another Scott
@Baud:
Unpossible!!11 That’s what the sell-out corproatist Demonrats who are working hand-in-glove with Bannon and Goldman-Sachs and Putin want you to think!11
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I think this is false. Vermont does not have party registration, so their is no official way to change affiliation except through self-identification. And to my knowledge, he has never actually self-identified himself as a Democrat.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
Thoroughly Pizzled
We’re in a sorry state if we listen to Libertarian Gleen Greenwald.
Baud
@Thoroughly Pizzled: I agree. I don’t think we do, but too many others still do.
Corner Stone
Take me with you!
Villago Delenda Est
@Shalimar: I have no use for torture-lover Dershowitz, who embraces the idiotic script straight from the corner of Hollywood and Vine fantasy of the “ticking time bomb”. He also has the annoying habit of considering Palestinians to be Untermenschen. He can go fuck off and die, too.
Anya
If I had a vote, I might just vote for Ellison just to spite Dershowitz. But I think it might be best for the party if the unknown guy from Indiana won. He’s articulate, young and sounds super impressive. He can also articulate issues important to people in a simple, non Washington speak. It might also help to rid us of the troublesome Sanders wing. I still can’t get over the fat that a guy who’s not even a member of the party has a wing.
I know this will get me in trouble but I’ve been super depressed ever since the orange vulgarian won. Honestly, I am legit depressed. I seem to be stuck in the anger stage of the grief. In this stage and in most days, my ire is directed at the Sanders supporters who were were one of the reasons why we are here because of their political nihilism. I have a cousin who voted for Stein and honestly, I don’t even want to have anything to do with him. I know, it’s extreme but I just can’t. Every horrible new development makes me really mad. I am holding them responsible for every ICE raid, for every victim of the travel ban and for every single damage to our system. And before you lecture me, I am not spending all my time being angry at these people. I’ve set up monthly donation to PP, NAACP, ACLU and Sacred Stone Legal Defense Fund.
Corner Stone
Speaking of vicious and bitter, can we also start a fund to tell Nina Turner to go the fuck away?
Villago Delenda Est
@Lyrebird:
James Carville. And frankly, no Democrat who is serious about winning should give him the time of day. Rumor has it he passed on inside information to the deserting coward campaign via the Sith Apprentice he’s married to in 2004 about Kerry’s intentions in Ohio.
Baud
@Anya: I hope you find a way to feel better. I enjoy reading your comments here.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Didn’t he have to be a Democrat to run for the Democratic nomination?
ETA: If he is an independent, why does he get a say about what the party does?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: No. I think New Hampshire made him get a letter from the Vermont Democratic Party, but he didn’t have to sign a pledge or affirmation or anything like that.
tobie
@MoxieM:
The BS wing is very good at taking hostages, and the response of the party has always been to placate them. It didn’t help one damn bit in the buildup to the party convention. As I posted yesterday, I would be more inclined to support Ellison if he, like Senator Merkley, had been trying to get Sanders to concede after Trump became the Republican nominee. He didn’t and to this extent contributed to the divisions in the party. I don’t think he should be rewarded for this.
I’m going to spend the afternoon helping out in the special election in Delaware. That’s a better use of my time than fretting about the DNC chairmanship race.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: @Baud:
I stand corrected.
Major Major Major Major
@tobie:
TBH that’s the only reason I’d consider voting for Ellison over Perez. And it speaks to their hostage-taking ability that I would, in fact, consider it.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: That would be a reasonable course of action if there were reason to believe that the DNC Chair would be the last hostage they took if Ellison wins.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Appeasing them will make them more obnoxious. So why laugh at the Rs for giving in to T?
WereBear
@Keith Kennedy: I don’t see any point in “moving to the center” when the Republicans have dragged that to “halfway down the cliff.”
I think the biggest problem with Democrats, especially our more public and elected ones, is a kind of Learned Helplessness.
Quit accepting conservative frames. Fight back! Stand for who we are.
WereBear
@Emma: Yes, thank you!
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I just don’t think it should be a consideration one way or the other.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Yeah, exactly.
FlipYrWhig
Isn’t the entire perception that this is an ideological clash based on like one story from when Perez got in the race, saying that Obama people had encouraged him to do it?
Anya
@Baud: Thanks! I think I will. But my negativity is the reason I stopped posting her.
msdc
@Major Major Major Major:
FTFY
tobie
@Major Major Major Major: The problem with giving in to blackmail is that the blackmail never ends. Nor am I convinced that BS’s most ardent followers, who have made the DNC chairmanship race the ideology test for the party, are committed Dems. May this be over soon.
randy khan
Since I can’t vote on DNC chair, I thought it might be fun to vote in this poll:
RNC survey on Trump’s first month
They ask for name and email at the end, but obviously can’t tell if you’re putting your own name in. I was thinking it would be best to use the names of Republican Senators.
Frankensteinbeck
@Keith Kennedy:
I guess that was true in the 90s, but at the moment the debate is between people who think progressivism means attacking the rich, and the people who think progressivism means attacking institutional racism.
D58826
Interesting that Bernie and his pals are threatening to blow up the party if he/they don’t get their way today. According to Bernie’s Senate web site he is still an INDEPENDENT.
Major Major Major Major
@Frankensteinbeck:
Can’t we just tackle the issues of the day with whatever the best & most politically abundant tools might be?
DCF
Obama’s Lost Army
He built a grassroots machine of two million supporters eager to fight for change. Then he let it die. This is the untold story of Obama’s biggest mistake—and how it paved the way for Trump.
By Micah L. Sifry
February 9, 2017
https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine
Can yellow dogs learn new tricks?
by Tom Sullivan
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/02/can-yellow-dogs-learn-new-tricks-by.html
Frankensteinbeck
@Major Major Major Major:
Apparently not, because one of those sides refuses to work with the other.
grandpa john
@schrodingers_cat: Anybody who viewed the Dem primary with an open mind would, if they were truly honest,have to conclude that Sanders campaign eventually affected the outcome of the election
Major Major Major Major
@grandpa john:
I found your problem.
hellslittlestangel
@Jinchi:
We already have one. His name is Bill Maher.
Applejinx
If we have to go with the guy that the torture-loving Dershowitz demands we use, fuck ’em. I obviously like the ‘huge fuck you to Trump and islamophobe dipshits’ that Ellison represents.
I also like using ‘is this a huge IN YO FACE to Trump and everything they stand for’ versus ‘is this a REAL Democrat, are we remaining in control of what it means to be REAL Democrats’. I would respectfully suggest that if it’s really a ‘cure or kill the party’ moment that’s for a reason, and Dershowitz is a damn good symptom of the problem. Party of torture? Really? I woulda thought Trump had that shit covered.
Frankensteinbeck
@hellslittlestangel:
Christ, yes. I saw Maher sit next to Milo, when Milo spouted his factually incorrect bullshit about protecting women from transwomen, then say they were ‘sexually confused men.’ Maher’s response? That was ‘very reasonable.’ I wanted to punch Maher in the face, and I am not someone prone to those feelings.
Major Major Major Major
@Applejinx:
I presume you aren’t outright dismissing a candidate because you hate one of their supporters.
Lyrebird
@Villago Delenda Est: YES. And at the same time, he invested not a single cent in Shea-Porter’s race… Shea-Porter pulled out some kind of record #votes per (minimal) dollar spent and won that one.
Hearing Kerry speak and working for his campaign left me deeply convinced that he is a truly good and brave man.
germy
@Villago Delenda Est:
He’s a conservative undercover operative.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@DCF:
Didn’t Obama have some other job out there that he was supposed to be doing besides mobilizing progressive activists? I’m a little fuzzy on that…
germy
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: “even the liberal New Republic says…”
columbusqueen
@D58826: Bernie can go fuck himself with a rusty chain saw–the world would be a better place if he did.
Mnemosyne
@Anya:
I will not yell, but I will strongly suggest that you get an appointment with a nice liberal therapist and seriously consider getting some medication. A triggering event like this election can send a person spiraling down into a serious depression. There’s no need to make yourself suffer unnecessarily.
MoxieM
@cornerstone apologies for the earworm! Korn never made it onto my rotation, so that’s a new one for me…. if it makes you feel better, I was Rickrolled at the grocery the other day. yeah, they were actually playing Never Gonna Give You Up. (Maybe someone in the back room was having a giggle.)
tomtofa
@Anya:
Exactly the impression I’ve gotten from him, especially in how he can articulate the issues in a commonsense, non-emo way that can be very effective with the ‘average’ voter. There’s probably no chance he’ll get this, but he does add greatly to the small group we can look to for the future.
J R in WV
@Iowa Old Lady:
I was at first thinking to myself, No fuckin way I would go to an event when giant walking turd was going to be present up front. But then I thought, when giant turd speaks, as he will, isn’t there going to be food on people’s plates right there to hand?
And how close to the front would I be?
Could a buttered roll make the stage? will there be a bowl of fruit on the table?
See where I’m going? When the first completely unacceptable remark happens, throw food!!! Best society affair in a generation!!!
Hildebrand
@tomtofa: Yep, Buttigieg would be a great choice. Thankfully, even if he doesn’t get the nod today, there is clearly a bright future for him in the party. If he doesn’t win, the new chair would be wise to get him on board – or at least out in front of the cameras on a regular basis. Buttigieg – all the progressive savvy one could want without the nonsense proxy baggage.
Barbara
@Corner Stone: GG can blow himself. He has become a misogynistic malcontent and if Ellison does get it he will soon find some other issue that will become nonnegotiable for the privilege of deigning to bless on the ground activists while he lounges around somewhere in Brazil. What makes either of these guys think anyone cares whether they “stay” in the party?
martian
Shit shit shit. If torture loving Dershowitz is promising to leave the party if Ellison wins, then I feel morally obligated to switch my meaningless, blog commenter vote to Ellison. The big tent needs to be just a tiny bit smaller when it comes to that horror show.
Buttigieg seems great, and I hear even Howie Dean backs him, but a unity candidate seems passing unlikely. We’re aiming for maximum butthurt, I think.
ETA: Oh my god, I agreed with Applejinx.
liberal
@Hildebrand:
Huh? He might be an important player in the party in the future, but it should be obvious to anyone that the DNC needs to be focussed on rebuilding the party. That has nothing to do with how good you are in front of a camera and everything to do with organizational/logistics skills. (Whether Ellison or Perez is better in that sense, I have no idea, though presumably Perez must have an edge because he ran DOL.)
Mnemosyne
@MoxieM:
When I was at the grocery store the other day, I caught a young military-looking guy in a crew cut and fatigues singing along to “All Out of Love” by Air Supply. ?
liberal
@Mnemosyne:
Cosigned.
dm
I like the three I’ve heard — Ellison, Perez, Buttigieg. Ellison and Buttigieg have track-records of increasing turn-out among their electorate, though it’s not clear they can manage taking what worked at the small-scale to a national level.
But! The thing that excites me is the thing that Charles Pierce mentioned on his blog the other day: “sister-districts”, pairing guaranteed-blue districts with weaker districts elsewhere in the country. Volunteers from Blueville can phonebank and fundraise for their sister-district in Redville. Keeps districts from getting lost in the cracks, keeps people focussed and not diffuse.
Seems like a good idea to me.
bemused
@Iowa Old Lady:
It will be a shit show no matter what. This is one event that Dumpster would want all press there so he can verbally abuse them while they are sitting there in silence. He’s probably already thinking up insults or having staff create a script to slam them.
Barbara
@dm: Me too, especially for midterms.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
martian
@dm: Sister-districts is a very cool idea! Did Charles Pierce come up with that? The idea that it would help keep people’s efforts focused instead of diffuse feels right. Also, you hear a lot about how people outnumbered in red districts feel abandoned by the larger party, and this could only help with that.
Hildebrand
@liberal: Buttigieg can do both. He has the organizational sense to build on Dean’s 50 state strategy, and he is quite good at articulating a positive, progressive message that so many in the Democratic party seem incapable of doing. Great organization needs to be married to great messaging.
J R in WV
@Keith G:
Sorry to have to disagree with you!
Whiner Sandyrs is a loser piece of crap, based upon his record of non-accomplishment, and his wife’s record of bankrupting a fine small college, to her own profit. The two of them should be put in a small boat and pushed out to sea with a following stiff breeze.
Mnemosyne
@dm:
AFAICT, that seems to be the idea behind Swing Left. My target district is CA-25, which is out in the high desert (Palmdale, I think) and has an R representative.
Applejinx
@Hildebrand: Buttigieg’s dropped out, without endorsing anybody. (watching this on the #DNCChair hashtag, on Twitter… dayum, is all I can say.)
trnc
@Corner Stone: Amen, brother.
pamelabrown53
@Applejinx: #136.
Re: Buttigieg’s dropping out. I wonder why and when will we know. Although, I think the real energy which will have the most positive affect are the ones that both mobilize and organize to elect dems at a local level.
trnc
Butterfield town hall starting anytime. Thought it was a more generic dem event by moveon, so I’m glad its an actual TH.
Emerald
@Applejinx:
I just asked Al Giordano on Twitter if this might swing things to Ellison. He replied that Buttigieg only has about 10 votes, so it shouldn’t make any difference.
I’m for Perez, but would be fine with Ellison. As Al pointed out yesterday, even if Ellison wins the BernieBrats will turn on him just as soon as Ellison starts supporting the whole Democratic party, and not just them (which probably would begin with his acceptance speech).
My major hope is to get these toxic brats out of the party so we can move forward.
burnspbesq
The most important task facing the new DNC chair is recruiting a top-quality candidate to run for the Senate in Vermont in 2018. I keep hoping that Middlebury will recruit Obama to tach Poli Sci and Michelle will quickly grow bored with small-college-town life.
trnc
@dm: Cool.
martian
@Applejinx: That’s the smartest move for him. Why get stuck to one faction or the other. The fight is all symbolic. I hope Buttigieg gets in with whoever gets the job.
J R in WV
@Anya:
Anya, this is a great place for negativity. Semi-anonymous, a little, and people aren’t offended if you use the great old Anglo-Saxon words to describe what’s got your goat. Give anyone here hell in so many words, or anyone from anywhere.
The whole purpose, or one of many really, of B-J is to rant, rave and release tension and anxiety by so ranting. It makes me feel better. Often I delete my most bitter posts right after posting, or even refresh the page before pressing that big post button.
And, everyone, I have nothing against Keith Ellison, and a big plus would be to piss off all the idiots and maniacs who would suffer brain damage if the DNC picked an American-born Muslim for our party chairman. On the other hand, Perez has run a big organization, and done a good job by all accounts. We really need a good manager.
Keith hasn’t ever run anything bigger than a tiny congressional office. So that’s as big a minus as his Islamic belief is a plus, sort of.
Actually, personally, as a science-believing, big bang accepter evolutionist, I think anyone who makes a big deal of their religious beliefs needs help. So Ellison’s religiosity is an indication of a weak mind for me. Why does anyone even know what he believes? Why should we care? Because he talks about it? Like I said, that’s a bad sign to me.
amk
@DCF: yeesh, zillonth piece on wwc butthurt.
Applejinx
I think the people behind Perez pressured Buttigieg to drop out, thinking his votes would go to them. I’m not sure why anyone thinks potential Ellison votes would go to anybody but Ellison, but it seems likely that Buttigieg came across as ‘another non-radical choice’.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
Good luck. As I’m sure you know, the Antelope Valley is physically in California but spiritually part of Oklahoma.
Applejinx
@J R in WV:
Might be a legitimate ‘YOU SHALL NOT PASS’ moment when up against a Trump administration that’s probably already planning genocide camps for Muslims and global war on Muslims. I’m not a Muslim and not likely to become one, but talk about a slap in the face: and it’d be pretty insane for the dude to try and cover it up in these political times, so it’s obvious why he would talk about his faith: because if he doesn’t, somebody else will, and it’ll be a nutjob rightwinger.
martian
@Applejinx: Where in the world are you getting that? Cause it really sounds like you pulled a new conspiracy theory out of your ass right there.
Is Ellison’s support of Sanders the sole reason he’s “the radical choice”?
Major Major Major Major
@martian:
According to the ‘Berniecrats’ in San Francisco, it sure seems like that’s the case.
schrodingers_cat
@martian: If BS says it, it must be so. It is a cult of personality.
martian
@Major Major Major Major: I’m actually sympathetic to the idea that having a Muslim head of the DNC would be symbolically very meaningful right now, which seems to be the main Berniecrat argument in Ellison’s favour, but all of the main candidates have similar connections to threatened communities. I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere but a gay gossip site I hang on, but Buttigieg is an out and married gay man. I think it just underlines that our candidates this go around are really on par with each other in what they bring to the table practically and symbolically.
Hildebrand
@Applejinx: Bummer. I hope this run will catapult him into national prominence, he is an important young voice for the Democrats.
Applejinx
@Hildebrand: Maybe he will be the first gay President! :)
Better him than Thiel…
martian
Thiel fucked off to New Zealand and is now officially a Kiwi. And welcome to him, they are. He’s already busy screwing them over.
Major Major Major Major
@martian:
While that’s true, it’s galling coming from the same people who think that a focus on ‘identity politics’ instead of economics cost us the election, especially when the other option (Perez) is a labor lawyer.
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
And this conspiracy theory is based on what, exactly?
Mnemosyne
@Hildebrand:
I wouldn’t be surprised if Buttigieg dropped out and Ellison doesn’t get it because we need as many elected Democrats in office as possible right now, and Perez is the only one of the three who doesn’t hold an elected office. I would rather have both of them stay in place than risk a Koch or Mercer-funded campaign to elect a Republican in either of their places.
martian
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, that bothers me, too. “Diversity politics” isn’t progressive I guess? What the fuck ever, whitey.
Major Major Major Major
@martian: it’s only not progressive when it’s somebody they don’t like pushing it.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Mnemosyne: Ellison’s, my rep, and, trust me, this district isn’t going to elect a Republican.
Aimai
@schrodingers_cat: don’t even bother. This guy is a perennial with the smug butt hurt.
Peale
@Major Major Major Major: especially since before Bernie endorsed him, his “diversity” was a sign that the democrats hadn’t learned anything from the election.
Applejinx
#DNCChair is hilarious. So far I’ve seen announcements that Ellison won, that Perez won, and that Hillary Clinton won XD
Mike J
@dm:
Interesting idea, but the devil is in the details. It will be viewed as outside interference in local politics, Pairing demographically dissimilar districts could in the long term lead to better understanding of what locals want between districts, but more likely would lead to people who don’t find Pelosi liberal enough lecturing West Virginians.
Mike J
BernersEllisonites pissed about having a secret ballot.Mnemosyne
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
I’d still rather avoid having the Kochs and/or Mercers make the attempt. Just the ads and fake news alone can be bad for the longer-term.
@Peale:
Also, this.
Mnemosyne
@Mike J:
The secret ballot is anti-democracy!
Baud
Judging solely by Twitter activity, Perez is active and Ellison is not. FWIW.
germy
Captain C
@Mnemosyne: I must see how everyone voted! How dare you ask to see how I voted?!?
Applejinx
This is not looking much like a coalition, on #DNCChair :/
Lyrebird
@Major Major Major Major: a Dominican-American labor lawyer.
People LUV to slam the coastal elites and act like everyone living in/around a city is so elite and cushy and so forth. Who’s living in a bubble? For the rest of us, yes I love Ellison, and yes I respect Perez… yes yes yes I will love having this be over!
Major Major Major Major
@Applejinx: Oh no, people on twitter disagree about something????
Baud
@germy: Drama!
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, Twitter is a cess pool right now.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud:
FTFY
rikyrah
@billcoop4:
Franken has surprised me as a Senator. Very impressive.
Hal
So what portion of reliable Dem voters are hard core, ride or die Berniacs? I like Ellison from what I’ve read and seen of him on TV, but once again I find myself annoyed at (some) Sanders supporters swooping in and proclaiming themselves the one, true progressive voice! and Dems will rue the day they didn’t go with Sander’s choice.
There is also this weird disconnect of hating Trump, but still going with the Hillary would have been the same, wishing Obama were still in office, but then slyly criticizing Perez as Obama’s fave, which somehow makes him the wrong choice? So confusing.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Lee Fang (part of The Intercept) is so awful. Trolling the party from the inside on twitter right now/always.
@Hal: A reliable Democratic voter is not a ride-or-die anything.
germy
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Someone yesterday (I think it was debit) was saying that, in her experience, Franken’s office has terrific constituent services. When she contacted them to get help for an acquaintance, they returned her call within a couple of hours with a contact name and phone number to call for assistance. And they followed up with her to make sure the problem got solved, too.
hovercraft
Perez 235, Ellison 200
Barbara
WaPo tells me it’s Perez. Although I don’t like the headline — that it’s a “blow” to the liberal wing of the party. Perez has been as liberal as anyone could have hoped as Secretary of Labor. I really hate these self-appointed arbiters of who is liberal.
Applejinx
Does Alan Dershowitz half-leave the party if Ellison is appointed Deputy Chair of the DNC? o_O
Elizabelle
@Barbara: I’m good with Perez. Yea!
Am sick of the “Dems in disarray” crap. We won the popular vote, going away. The WaPost can suck it.
pamelabrown53
@hovercraft: #183.
Just saw that Perez was the winner. What a squeaker The good news is we’ll see who is more interested in fighting the dems than the fascists.!
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: Someone in Ellison’s secondary screwed up, obviously.
Villago Delenda Est
@Barbara: If you listen to the vermin of the Village, Hillary’s emails were the mark of her solid support of Hitler in the ’33 Reichstag elecions.
germy
I can just imagine 2020. Kirsten gets the nomination, and Stein goes on a twitter rampage complaining about her venture capitalist husband and centrist DNC chair.
This discourages enough ponies to throw the election to Scott Baio, republican nominee.
grandpa john
@Barbara: yeah, I noticed that dig they got in also. but it’ s the WP., Nothing the dems do will ever be without some controversy according to our media
Mnemosyne
@pamelabrown53:
From what everyone is saying, it’s Perez as the head and Ellison as the deputy chair. That seems like a very nice and artful compromise to me (and one that allows Ellison to keep his House seat), but I’m guessing it won’t be enough for the BoBs.
Goblue72
I hope you like losing. You’ll be doing a lot of it. DNC power brokers just told the activist wing to pound sand.
It’s not the responsibility of the membership to blindly follow. It’s the job of leadership to do what is best to win. And today, they decided feeding at the big money trough was more important.
Jinchi
@<a href="#[email protected]hellslittlestangel: mment-6264436″>hellslittlestangel:
No. Bill Maher is not the liberal Milo. Bill Maher is not a liberal, he’s a libertarian. He agrees with the left on a marijuana legalization, environmentalism and gay marriage, but he’s at home with the right wing hatred of Muslims and contempt of feminists.
pamelabrown53
@Mnemosyne: #196.
I already gandered GOS and the butthurt is bigly. Hopefully, that is just a minority in the scheme of things. Right now we have a country to save.
P.S. Good on Perez for making Ellison deputy chair. Plus, it’s a good thing we don’t have another special election on the horizon.
Peale
@Goblue72: perhaps with your failure to win within the party, you might wish to go off and reflect on why you keep losing.
Mnemosyne
@Goblue72:
Yeah, poor Ellison was forced to be merely the deputy chair. What a horrible rejection of the entire activist wing. You guys should stay home and sulk … like you always do anyway.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Goblue72: Oh, shut the fuck up, Dwight.
martian
Feeling a bitter pang at the thought that Dershowitz might feel gratified or even imagine that this vote was somehow due in part to his influence. {{shudder}}
Looking forward to seeing what kind of team Perez puts together.
D58826
@Barbara: Already a bunch of twitter links to articles about how the ‘establishment’ won and the D’s sold out.
IIRC we had an election not so long ago and inspire of all manners of problems the ‘establishment’ candidate won by 3 million popular votes. It’s Only due to the archaic EC that we are not talking about Madam President and what drapes the Big Dog will pick for the east wing.
I’m not suggesting that the party right-off it’s progressive wing but I’m not sure there are enough progressive votes in the country (outside of the San Fran Bay area) to win at the local/state/federal level. I don’t care how many ways you slice the electorate Bernie (or Liz) is not going to win in Texas.
And Bernie is still not a democrat. If he wants to play such a big role in the party then change your registration from independent to democrat. Is that really asking to much (i know the answer)
germy
@Goblue72: Stein/GoBlue 2020.
martian
Ooh, Ellison is the deputy chair? Looking good already!
germy
I still hope Dershowitz leaves the party. Maybe Ellison as deputy chair will annoy Dershowitz enough to walk out.
germy
Villago Delenda Est
@Goblue72: There has got to be a fire near you that you can go fuck off and die in, or are you actively seeking a position in the Donald Disaster?
Goku
@Goblue72:
But how are Perez and Ellison any different from each other? They’re both progressives qualified for the job. That’s the most ridiculous assertion I’ve ever heard.
Besides, I agree that it’s not the job of the membership “to blindly follow” but it is their job, as citizens of a republic to make the best possible choice, not throw a temper tantrum because they got a pony instead of a unicorn. To do so is selfish and ultimately dangerous not only to the country but the world as well, as we just saw this past election.
Oh, and I think the resistance is bigger than some Wilmer dead enders and growing.
martian
I wonder if a Perez/Ellison or Ellison/Perez partnership was what was being discussed when those two were caught in flagrante grabbing a meal together. Was that last week, already? Smart, if so. Eyes forward on the fascists.
CaseyL
A BernieBro on my FB feed is already out the door, saying Dems “didn’t learn anything.”
What lesson were we supposed to learn, that people who hate us should make our important decisions for us?
That people who can’t be counted on to vote in off-year elections are the ones we should be sucking up to?
That people who can’t be counted on to vote against neo-fascism if their precious feelings are hurt are the most important people in the universe?
Every time the BernieBros pop their heads out of their asses enough to join the conversation, I despise them more and more.
What repellent useless wattles they are.
Captain C
@germy:
All the while sprinting away from any intrepid reporter who asks her (Stein) about her own private investments in industries she condemns in public.
DCF
@amk:
You should try reading them once in a blue moon…you might learn that 1) choices are not binary and 2) detailed (and nuanced) knowledge is an asset….
Then again, an allergic reaction to any form of cognitive-emotional dissonance is hardly unique to you in this commentariat….
The DNC – once again – has shown that it will repeat the same exclusionary practices that have lost us the House, Senate, and now the Presidency.
germy
@DCF: Perez and Ellison working together. That’s their goal? Exclusionary practices?
DCF
@Goku:
Perez is an establishment Democrat who (strongly) supported HRC (and the TPP) in the primary. Ellison is a progressive congressman with empirical organizing chops who could fully harness the rising energy of the activist base.
The broad-brush superficiality of labeling both as essentially interchangeable is ludicrous. The Democratic Party needs to tack left if it is to regain credibility with that portion of the electorate who voted for Obama (twice) and then turned to Herr Trumpf….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: “Exclusionary practices” I suppose means not giving in to their tantrums
DCF
@germy:
If that truly happens, I’m all in…at this juncture, actions will speak far louder than all the talk of unity and shared purpose…when the Democratic Party finally decides to shed its addiction to corporate monies and a myopic focus upon the well-being of the ‘professional/creative class’ (read: the top 10%), it will regain ascendancy and return to serving all the people….
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Perez teaming up with Ellison seems pretty inclusionary to me.
DCF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
No, oh dismissive and denigrating one…’exclusionary’ refers to treating non-monied (read: non-corporate) interests as secondary and tertiary concerns, at best….
D58826
Well didn’t take long for the Bernie wars to start up again here.
I think I’ll plan on doing something productive this evening – like o playing dodge the truck on I85
germy
@DCF:
Agreed. If Perez had simply said a bunch of nice things about Ellison, it’d be one thing. But he’s teaming up with him. That’s impressive action and it sends a message of real unity.
Goku
@DCF: So what if he did? What is exactly is the problem with supporting the most qualified candidates in the race? Among both the Democratic base and the general electorate, that’s evidence that she was fairly popular right? BTW, is the label “establishment” one reserved for those who fail to meet your ideological purity tests? Just asking.
Also, isn’the it true that evil TPP would have made it so Asian nations would have been drawn closer to the United States and the west instead of the authoritarian PRC?
DCF
@germy:
I sincerely hope that they will ‘team’ with one another…saying they will do so is a good start…doing so is a horse of a different color….
Power, in these circumstances, will not be willingly diminished or relinquished. Molly Ivins famously said that ‘…you got to dance with them what brung you.’ At present, the Democratic Party is altogether too beholden to the corporate elements of the Party. To claim otherwise is to ignore (or deny) objective reality. Let’s not begin our own version of ‘alternative facts’ – that’s a Republican approach.
DCF
@Goku:
There was more than one ‘qualified’ candidate in the race – and HRC was the second-most unpopular candidate in electoral history. The Democratic Party chose to run an ‘establishment’ (read: non-change) candidate whose every weakness played to her opponent’s strength(s) – in a ‘change’ election. Brilliant political calculus, eh?
As for your snide reference to ‘purity’, there is no purpose in referencing it – apart from it serving as an absolutist/perfectionist foil to avoid discussing viable policy alternatives/differences. For example:
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/02/25/incredibly-disappointing-democrats-choose-tom-perez-head-party
Johnnybuck
@DCF:
You first motherfucker
Villago Delenda Est
@Johnnybuck: Seconded.
D58826
@Villago Delenda Est: same here and stop feeding the troll.
DCF
@D58826:
If you were cognizant of ‘the facts’, you’d have something more than blind reactivity and expletives to share….
As for any ‘unicorns’ you may find in your compartmentalized meanderings…you know what part you can mount…it appears to be the only thing that would shake you out of your somnolence….
Goku
@DCF: Still popular enough to beat BS, while he made the right sounds, didn’t know how to get to where he wanted to go. If he had won the primary, I sincerely doubt that he would have done much better against the white supremacist candidate. Y’know, considering he’s a Jewish socialist and all.
He has also said fairly recently in an oped in the NYT that he wanted to work with Traitor Trump, a genuine fascist. How’s that for brilliant political calculus, with how unpopular Trump is and has been for over a month now? While I don’t agree in principle with the actions taken by DNC members that you quoted in that piece, the Republicans are objectively far worse in every respect to good policy or progressiveism.
They want to take away the right to vote for millions of people that don’t vote for them. I mean for god’s sake, their covering for a guy who defends a Russian dictator who likely interfered in our elections. Their gutless cowards and traitors since at least top leadership like Mitch McConnell knew prior to 11/8 about it. Can you say the same about the Democrats?
Barry
@Shalimar: “Dershowitz was always famous for his civil liberties cases more than anything, so we only called him a Democrat because that is what he called himself. He could have just as easily been a libertarian douchebag to begin with.”
After becoming Mr. I Love Torture, I reconsidered his civil libertarian rep. If he only did it for multi-million $ legal fees, then basically he was just a shyster.
Brachiator
I missed all the posting fun while at the movies.
I don’t give 2 shits who won, between Perez and Ellison. I like both of them and expect them to work together.
Now, if Sanders thinks he has a wing or is shadow leader of something, he needs to wake up and get his head out of his ass. Similarly, the Clintons time is done. Both of them. They can pass the torch, enjoy their emeritus status, advise, run their great foundation, but otherwise I don’t want to hear from them anymore. Others may differ. I don’t care.
DCF
@Goku:
This is exactly what I’m talking about when I say that this is gross oversimplification. Sanders has said that he wants to work with Trump if Trump was true to his word about issues like infrastructure and entitlements – not on other issues where the policy gap is wider than the Grand Canyon.
Good night and good luck….
Economist Who Predicted Brexit & Trump Brilliantly Explains Capitalism’s Collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K8bf6dbYt4&feature=youtu.be
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@DCF: that thing where you put half your comment in boldface totally doesn’t make you look like a crackpot
Brachiator
@DCF: Oh, Lordy, Lordy. Collapse of capitalism. Where will we get the oats to feed our purity ponies?
Goku
@DCF:
Here’s a clue: Trump isn’t and BS is a dupe.
Goku
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: lol
amk
@DCF: yeah, real pity racist sexist pos are not openly welcomed by the dems.