Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Come on, man.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Sunday Night Open Thread: Holiday Wrap-Up

Sunday Night Open Thread: Holiday Wrap-Up

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May you always be the bunny, and never the shocked baby.
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221Comments

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne

    If I were hosting even a scaled-down WH egg roll tomorrow, supported by skeleton staff, I think I might have opted to spend my weekend at the actual, you know, LOFUCKINGCATION of the event instead of Mar-a-Loco.

    But that’s just me. I’m sure it will go well.

  4. 4.

    Noncarborundum

    It might go down better without the Grabber-in-Chief there speculating about which of the kids he’s going to want to date in 5 to 10 years.

  5. 5.

    SenyorDave

    Trump worked his ass off on the Easter Egg Roll. He spend hours, but ultimately could not figure out any way he could personally profit off this event. We can all understand why it might be on the chopping block.

  6. 6.

    randy khan

    The Arkansas situation is incredible. It’s the kind of thing that actually can shift public opinion – that appearance of an unseemly rush to kill the inmates is really troubling.

    But I really feel like the news in this area is the unwillingness of the drug companies to participate in executions. I was talking to my wife about this earlier this weekend and we both were wondering how much of the reason for their attitudes is that so many drug companies are now based in Europe.

  7. 7.

    Yarrow

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m surprised he isn’t flying in at the last minute and then landing on the lawn on Marine One. Then giving kids rides in the helicopter. Didn’t he do that during the primaries–maybe in Iowa?

  8. 8.

    bago

    @mainmata: Republicans don’t care about anything. Bombs on Syria? Good idea now, bad idea then. Taxes ok? Bad Idea then. Good idea now. Economy OK? Bad notion then, reality now!

    Nihilists, the whole lot.

  10. 10.

    Mary G

    I hope it is the disaster I expect it to be, full of crying kids and angry parents. Is Ivanka still hiding out at the kosher ski resort?

  11. 11.

    MomSense

    I find this Arkansas situation incredibly upsetting and discouraging.

    And Louise Mensch has everyone ruled up about imminent arrests and impeachment. I’m afraid to get my hopes up.

    ETA should be riled up

  12. 12.

    Yarrow

    @randy khan:

    we both were wondering how much of the reason for their attitudes is that so many drug companies are now based in Europe.

    I thought I’d read that that is the main reason they can’t get the drugs for executions–the European-based drug companies won’t make them or won’t provide them for that purpose or something.

  13. 13.

    TenguPhule

    And a moment of silence for all the waiters and waitresses who will be screwed out of a tip today by Holy Baller Christian assholes.

    Because nothing says love like enjoying making those poorer then you feel like shit.

  14. 14.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Yarrow:

    Don’t recall where it was (for some reason I was thinking Pennsylvania, but could easily be wrong — could have been Iowa, I just don’t remember) but it absolutely wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t try to make tomorrow’s Easter Egg Roll totally about him.

  16. 16.

    Central Planning

    I figured the White House egg roll would have been today, so I googled it to see how it went. Turns out there’s a whitehouse.gov1.info website that says it’s the official web site for the egg roll. That’s one classy, yuge website. They couldn’t figure out how to add it to whitehouse.gov? Sheesh.

    ETA – egg roll is Monday

  18. 18.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MomSense:

    I find this Arkansas situation incredibly upsetting and discouraging.

    We actually haven’t had much about it on BJ, and I’m not sure how much I’d be able to participate in that conversation anyhow. It’s extremely upsetting to contemplate, and I feel pretty helpless at being able to do anything to change the outcome.

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Central Planning:

    Well, according to Friday’s news dump, they are basically planning to shut down the whitehouse.gov site fairly soon anyhow. So no worries!

  22. 22.

    Yarrow

    There’s a website about the White House Easter Egg Roll. I scrolled down and the list of musical performers caught my eye.

    Musical artists will perform on the South Lawn music stage throughout the day. Guests include the Martin Family Circus and pop-rock boy band Bro4.

    Bro4? The Martin Family Circus? All star lineup.

  23. 23.

    mai naem mobile

    I happened to have MSNBC on earlier and they had a clip of all the damn parasite family walking down the airplane. Even Melanomas parents. I am waiting for one of the rightwingers who called Mrs Robinson for staying at the WH(to help with Sasha and Malia) a welfare mom, call Melanomas parents welfare parents.

  25. 25.

    catclub

    It is my understanding that suffocation by replacing the oxygen in the air with nitrogen, (and keeping the CO2 levels low – because high CO2 does induces a gasping response), would be a very painless form of execution. Basically an inflated bag over the head, with increasing ratio of nitrogen input.

    Am I deluded? Anyone with any real knowledge on this?

    ETA: It seems I am not deluded:
    >>
    Can inhaling pure nitrogen kill someone instantly? – Quora
    https://www.quora.com/Can-inhaling-pure-nitrogen-kill-someone-instantly
    It definitely will kill you, but definitely not instantly. Nitrogen is not toxic at all under normal … Moreover, if you’re breathing nitrogen, you don’t feel like you’re suffocating. You get light-headed and pass out (apparently very quickly) but you never …
    >>

  26. 26.

    magurakurin

    fuck Easter.

    apparently there is a tape of Shitgibbon offering to change policy in exchange for help.
    Carter Page Went to Moscow With a Tape of Donald Trump Offering Treason For Hacking

    For now, the point is that intelligence sources say that Page, Manafort and Epshteyn, possibly also with Trump, are on tape discussing how Page should carry a recording of Donald Trump to Moscow, offering his bona fides in exchange for Russia’s help hacking the election; and that the said tape of Trump was played by Page to Russian intelligence, possibly including Mr. Diveykin, the Russian official in charge of hacking the election; and that multiple foreign intelligence services, among them the UK, Germany and Ukraine, have a tape of this; and that finally, in October, the FBI was able to listen to that tape.

  27. 27.

    Miss Bianca

    @catclub: I have never cared enough to master the mechanics of “painless” state-sponsored slaughter to be able to answer your question.

  29. 29.

    Yarrow

    @Central Planning: That website isn’t the official website for the Easter Egg Roll. It’s basically a fan site–someone who loves the egg roll and wants to get the info out.

  30. 30.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @MomSense: she’s not the only one; Claude Taylor says FBI first and NY state RICO next. John Schindler (that asshole) says indictments are coming, and allies have turned over SIGINT of Trump RU connections going back decades and “it’s devastating.” He also agrees with Taylor’s assertions that deals don’t need to be made because FBI has “principals dead to rights” and that Germany provided SIGINT of quid pro quo.

    I’m trying not to hope too hard.

  32. 32.

    ThresherK

    @Yarrow: Sounds like something he did for the press.corps in Iowa. The gradeschoolers at the egg roll will prove to be less impressionable and gullible to a stunt like that, however.

  35. 35.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Miss Bianca: I wish I’d thought of it. A friend posted it on her FB page. I failed to ask if she performed it, but when I said I couldn’t tell if it was a spay or a section, she told me it was both, which makes sense surgically. Oh, you’re right; I am a nut to consider it that carefully or technically.

  36. 36.

    efgoldman

    @mainmata:

    Orange Monster doesn’t care about anything that doesn’t immediately glorify himself. So…

    Gold plastic eggs with his picture inside.

  39. 39.

    efgoldman

    @randy khan:

    the news in this area is the unwillingness of the drug companies to participate in executions.

    That’s OK. They’ll just drag Old Sparky out of the warehouse and plug it in.
    I have never, and will never, understand the bloodthirstiness of these :::ahem::: “christian” states.

  40. 40.

    TenguPhule

    @MomSense: When Trump is evicted, there’s a better then even chance they’ll go nuts and try to kill people. And while Trump is in power, they serve as a natural Brownshirt reserve.

  41. 41.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    @randy khan:

    It’s the kind of thing that actually can shift public opinion – that appearance of an unseemly rush to kill the inmates is really troubling.

    I’m waiting for footage on the 10 pm news of Arkansas gubmint officials cheering & high fiving if they manage to pull this off…

    ***puts head down on arms and starts crying quietly***

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    @randy khan:
    There’s a stubborn cohort that “believes” in capital punishment (death penalty ban narrowly lost last fall in California). Will be surprised if the Arkansas ghoulishness changes any hearts and minds. Be that as it may, they’ve descended into NKorea-level subhumanity.

  45. 45.

    Felonius Monk

    We had a f*ckTrump Easter dinner out today —- We enjoyed a fine meal at one of our favorite Mexican restaurants and tipped bigly.

  47. 47.

    Patricia Kayden

    @randy khan: Hmmmm. I assume it depends on who is being put to death. We’re talking about a very conservative Southen state. I would assume that Arkansan voters are generally good with the death penalty.

  50. 50.

    magurakurin

    @Jeffro:

    I’m still good with that. But only as a minimum.

    How about if he ends up like the Nazi in that episode of the Night Gallery, “Escape Route?”

  51. 51.

    efgoldman

    @TenguPhule:

    there’s a better then even chance they’ll go nuts and try to kill people.

    He and his brood would literally pee their pants if asked to pick up anything more lethal than a bottle opener.
    So will you, but that’s a different conversation.

  52. 52.

    Miss Bianca

    @efgoldman:

    They put the “ack” in “tacky”

    I am so swiping this. And on that note, I wish all you jackals a fond good-night. Parting is such sweet sorrow, etc etc.

  55. 55.

    Mnemosyne

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I read a book written in 1830 by an Englishwoman who lived in the United States for several years, and she talks about how Americans were uncomfortable executing white men no matter what they did, but didn’t have the same scruples when it came to Black or Native American men. And this was almost 200 years ago.

    Some things never change.

  62. 62.

    Jeffro

    @magurakurin: I had to look that up but I’m glad I did…learned quite a bit about the young Stephen Spielberg and the seasoned Joan Crawford.

    I’m good with that ending you suggested. Let’s just get this over with, America.

  63. 63.

    Yarrow

    @debbie: It’s Louise Mensch’s blog. She has been quite accurate so far in calling how things in the Trump Russia scandal have happened. She says she uses her blog for things that are a bit more theoretical and if she writes for other publications she has more stringent requirements. However, she has gone back and “upgraded” some of her theories to facts as she learns more info, so add that into any assessment you make of what she writes.

  66. 66.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule: i sense a mass act of stupidity soon like the idiot how shoot up that pizza joint in DC.

    “When Trump is evicted, there’s a better then even chance they’ll go nuts and try to kill people. And while Trump is in power, they serve as a natural Brownshirt reserve”

    Not, if when. Most likely they will turn on Trump to. This is just mindless bashit nuts rage.

  69. 69.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @debbie: Consider Claude Taylor, and retweeted without criticism by Schindler (that asshole), linked above. All seem to have pretty reliable sources. Louise can get a little loopy sometimes, but she’s reported a bunch of stuff that’s proven correct. Schindler (that asshole) clearly has good sources going back to his IC days. And the Jester predicts the same. I have high confidence.

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Mike in NC. Indeed; not at all.

  70. 70.

    TenguPhule

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: What’s worse is that they’re mainstreaming in the right, which is why I keep saying we’re headed for a Civil War. All the rules are being thrown out the window.

    And when that happens, the only solution is to eliminate the other side.

  73. 73.

    Mnemosyne

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    If you heard anything about the riot here in California by white supremacist assholes in support of Trump, it looks like the ringleaders are convicted felons with several violent felonies already on their records. So it’s not going to come out of nowhere — it’s going to be organized by the guys who joined white supremacist gangs while they were in prison for committing violent felonies.

  74. 74.

    efgoldman

    @debbie:

    I wish this would come out already so we could be done with this nightmare.

    Relax. Twenty-six months between the Watergate burglary and Tricksie Dicksie Nixie getting on the helicopter, with a lot fewer trails of bread crumbs, and no foreign power involved.

  75. 75.

    grandpa john

    @mainmata: well he could always have himself crucified on the white house lawn, that would certainly garner him some glory and fame

  77. 77.

    efgoldman

    @Mnemosyne:

    the ringleaders are convicted felons with several violent felonies already on their records.

    And as Adam pointed out late last nite, they are such brilliant strategists and organizers that they made all their plans on fully identifiable web videos, and also snapped pictures of themselves committing additional felonies.

  79. 79.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    @TenguPhule: Good show yesterday… hopefully some felony assault charges are on their way, especially w/ Ann Coulter coming to town on the 27th…

    The people involved keep this up, there will be deaths…

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    Yep. And while there are a lot of cops out there who are right-wing assholes, even in California, those right-wing asshole cops hate it when other right-wing assholes show up and start causing trouble, because the asshole cops are not having their authoritah respected.

  82. 82.

    gene108

    @grandpa john:

    Crucifixion was not a big deal. The Romans crucified a bunch of folks. Coming back from the dead, that’s what got people’s attention.

  83. 83.

    efgoldman

    @debbie:

    I was younger then and more patient.

    I’d much rather that the state and federal prosecutors have all their waterfowl in a row. I’d hate for any of the cases to be borked by rushing them.

  90. 90.

    efgoldman

    @debbie:

    You’re right, of course.

    Comes with age; also with having lived thru Watergate as an adult in my late 20s – early 30s.

  91. 91.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: I think that’s a not quite accurate. What I understood her to say is that originally the BLM/Ferguson protests were organized by locals and mostly peaceful. However they were infiltrated by outsiders. There was even something she was citing–an article I think that had Senate testimony, but I can’t remember exactly–that backed up the claims of infiltration by outsiders who wanted to be violent. Her claim was that BLM was targeted by the Russians, using Active Measures to negatively impact legitimate protests. The goal was to shut down the right to protest peacefully as well as discredit the organizations protesting.

    Here’s a sample tweet from her on that issue.

    @RVAwonk Yes. I myself was catfished by all this stuff pre-election. #BlackLivesMatter were 100% targeted by Russia to make THEM look bad.— Louise Mensch (@LouiseMensch) April 15, 2017

  92. 92.

    efgoldman

    @EBT:

    not so bad he is gonna keel over before he gets fitted for an orange jump suit.

    Who knows, maybe everyone who he knows getting indicted and singing will give him a stroke.

  94. 94.

    efgoldman

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    what was it like when there were only three channels and PBS?

    Since they all carried all the hearings non stop, it was really, really interesting.

    ETA: I saw the Tricksie Dicksie / Dan Rather “Mr President, ARE you a crook?” press conference live.

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yarrow: I still think that she is a bit of a loony, but she has good sources. What one gets from that – well, who knows…

  97. 97.

    danielx

    @Yarrow:

    “Treason” is one of those words not just tossed out, and for good reason. But when somebody offers to suborn the foreign and domestic policy of the US on behalf of a third party, in exchange for unlawful interference with the election process, that sounds pretty damn treasonous to me.

    It sure as hell does not sound in keeping with that whole business about protect and defend etc etc, nor yet with taking care that the laws are faithfully executed. Or am I missing something?

  99. 99.

    Aleta

    @Mnemosyne: I’m hoping that the whit. sup. who’s on tape punching a woman (and already has been in prison once for a violent felony) might be charged with another violent felony for this. (Also, I know that the 3 strikes thing is more stringent now, but I saw that ‘mayhem’ can count toward it. That’s defined to include an attack that (intentionally or not) causes certain kinds of physical damage to a person.)

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    @MomSense: No, that’s not what she indicated. She indicated, or at least went back and revised it, that the black bloc folks that went there and caused trouble were being pushed via the same social media channels that are pushing the other Russian back desinformatziya, proviskaya, and propaganda. We saw some of this, and I put up the social media captures of it in my post last night, in regard to the Berkeley violence yesterday. The same set of bots and bogus news sites being referenced by the alt-right folks that organized yesterday’s violence. Creating civil society disturbances and exacerbating divisions would be consistent with the apparatchiks manual.

  101. 101.

    Yarrow

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, she’s definitely got her own style. Not sure how accurate she is on everything, but so far quite a bit of what she’s written has turned out to be true. I guess we’ll see.

    I guess I kind of hate that she’s being accused of saying that BLM was a Russian op. She didn’t say that, but she did express her thoughts poorly about it initially. I think the damage was done, even though her follow ups were much clearer as to her intent. Whether she’s right or wrong about that is a separate issue.

  103. 103.

    GregB

    @Yarrow:

    It is also interesting that Milo Yiannopolous’ Dangerous Faggot campus tour was running around the country during the end days of the election. It was at one of his events that the Nazi right claimed the battle of Berkeley happened.

    Obviously his whole shtick was designed rot rile and provoke and I can see agent provocateurs inserting themselves and causing shit.

    It should also be noted that General Flynn used to name drop Milo when Flynn spoke publicly.

    It should also be noted that Milo never took his tour of provocation to Russia.

  104. 104.

    Yarrow

    @danielx: It’s treason in the commonly understood usage of the word. Our resident lawyers can weigh in as to whether or not it meets the legal definition of the word and whether or not it might be applicable here.

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: She was citing FBI Special Agent (ret) Clint Watts’ testimony before the Intel Committee a couple of weeks ago. Prior to joining the FBI, Watts was in the Army and was an Intel bubba.

  106. 106.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Patricia Kayden: Blahs are just fine to be put to death. White guys who convert to “Christianity” get pardons or commutations or parole from asswipes like Mike Hucksterbee.

  108. 108.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Yarrow: Her sources seem to be consistently accurate in the information they provide to her. The question is how accurate is the narrative she’s been building, and, as necessary revising.

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yarrow:

    Her claim was that BLM was targeted by the Russians, using Active Measures to negatively impact legitimate protests. The goal was to shut down the right to protest peacefully as well as discredit the organizations protesting.

    Given the number of whites people who voted for Trump because they were pissed off at Black Lives Matter, it sounds like it was yet another successful Russian propaganda effort.

    Or, you know, a majority of white Americans are just assholes who get pissed off when any black American speaks up about being treated badly. That seems more likely to me, unfortunately.

  111. 111.

    randy khan

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I think they’re just shutting down the part about the visitors log – the amount of money they claim to be saving is nowhere near what it costs to run whitehouse.gov. Also, it’s an important tool for getting the Administration’s message out (as in all administrations), so shutting it down would be beyond stupid.

  112. 112.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for your comment. That’s my understanding as well. She didn’t express herself well initially and it got taken the wrong way. She definitely has clarified her position.

    I think it’s important to understand the role of Russian proviskaya and their goal of disrupting events with violence to discredit organizations such as BLM. They are stupid enough to post all their planning and coordination online, so it’s pretty easy to create a trail and see connections. I think it will also be relatively easy to trace it back their Russian connections.

  113. 113.

    efgoldman

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    White guys who convert to “Christianity” get pardons or commutations or parole from asswipes like Mike Hucksterbee.

    Hucksterbee hasn’t been governor for quite a number of years – it’s Asa Hutchinson, who once upon a time (in congress) was considered an OK guy.
    I think three, or maybe four, of the inmates on the list are white, FWIW

  114. 114.

    Adam L Silverman

    @GregB: Caroline O. (RVAWonk on twitter), who pulled together most of the social media evidence of who was responsible for yesterday’s action, was able to go back and show the same folks, specifically Chapman and a couple of others, had done the same type of planning around Milo’s appearance. Perlstein provides the actual backstory in his Washington Spectator article about who started the violence that day (the alt-right folks), how it preceded Milo trying to give his talk, and that the news coverage, for whatever reason, simply ignored the pre-event violence, as well as the shooting of an anti-Milo/anti-Trump peaceful protestor in Seattle the week before by a pro-Milo/pro-Trump alt-right guy.

  115. 115.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: Did you see the sample tweet I linked from her in a comment above? She mentions BLM specifically and how they were targeted. It’s one of many like it. She has clarified her position on it.

  117. 117.

    randy khan

    @trollhattan:

    There’s definitely a group that’s unpersuadable (almost all nominally Christians, surprise, surprise), but there’s also a group that’s pro but soft, and events like this can affect them.

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @randy khan:

    Also, it’s an important tool for getting the Administration’s message out (as in all administrations), so shutting it down would be beyond stupid.

    Yeah, not seeing how that would stop the Trumpsters from doing it.

  121. 121.

    randy khan

    @amk:

    If they really follow the policy, that will mean that nobody will be boarded and then pulled off for crew, since boarding never starts an hour before the flight.

  122. 122.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: One of the ways this sort of infiltration works is that it uses already existing splits and tensions and then seeks to increase or exacerbate them. So white people might have some unease with black people protesting but it’s not a huge deal. Bring in provocateurs to turn the protests violent and white people are now more scared. The issue already exists, but the goal is to make it a bigger issue.

    One might also look at the splits in the Democratic party in the recent election and ask some questions.

  123. 123.

    danielx

    @Yarrow:

    The not-so-odd part is that I can see Trump a) being dumb enough to permit himself to be recorded saying such things, and b) considering it a more or less normal commercial NYC-type deal. You do this for me, I do this for you…bada bing, Trump-style. From everything I have ever read about him – which, believe me, is more than I ever wanted to – the lawfulness or morality of actions taken towards his ends has never really been considerations for him.

    And indeed there is reason for this, because in an exceedingly checkered career, nothing he has ever done has resulted in any real consequences for him. Not affected his lifestyle, not affected his liberty, and not restrained his further filthy impulses, either. So any sort of threats (other than to his ego or self-image) or possible consequences don’t seem to be real to him. After all, they never have been in the past.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: Honestly, given the alt-right folks, and the well stated position from Stormfront and Daily Stormer to Breitbart to Gateway Pundit to Alex Jones to Drudge that BLM are domestic terrorists and hunting cops, which was also promoted in primetime at the RNC Convention by Sheriff Clarke (who we now know thanks to his disclosure forms is connected to Russia), which is also the stated position of a number of high profile NRA board members and media personalities/staff, I’m pretty sure the alt-right and fellow travelers would be promoting the same BS regardless of Russia’s active measures campaign.

    But, as always, it is interesting that all these folks suddenly took the same position, at the same time, with the exact same language and phrasing. It seems to happen very, very often whether we’re talking Syrian chemical attacks or Susan Rice or what Russia is doing in Ukraine, etc. And people are now looking to see where it all tracks back to. And this was really Watts’ point.

  130. 130.

    randy khan

    @Mnemosyne:

    I know they’re actively mining the email addresses of people who comment on whitehouse.gov, because now I’m on the list. That’s not to say that they’d be dumb enough to close down the whole thing, but again the reported savings are nowhere near what it costs to run a site that elaborate, so I think they must have meant they were closing down the visitor log part.

  131. 131.

    Adam L Silverman

    @danielx: This, if accurate, will be follow the money. In this case the Rosneft deal will be a major component. Here too, and amazingly, many of the players have direct ties to the President.

  133. 133.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: It does indeed. However, here too their are just too many coincidences. And we can also see who is talking to who on social media.

  136. 136.

    GregB

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I keep seeing the Twitter rightwingers using the memes about the ‘peaceful left’ whenever they claim victim hood in these street fights.

    It seems there are violent elements in the antifa and black block groups, but I am also fully believing that rightwing elements are often the instigators and allow for the leftist groups to jump in on the action.

    It is a pretty dangerous game they are all playing.

    But I really see Breitbart and Alex Jones with its black crime hype as sinister as radio Hutu in Rwanda.

    I assume Jones has scrubbed his maniacal web rant about Hilary murdering and chopping up babies in the run up to the election but it was really the equivalent of shouting fire in a crowded theater.

    Meanwhile in Georgia someone video taped some young wingnut stealing Democratic special election yard signs and then ranting about John Podesta when confronted.

    The Fox, Drudge, Breitbart, Jones nexus has created literal mental cases with potential for great violence. Luckily most of them seem to be dumb as a sack of shit.

  139. 139.

    Yarrow

    @danielx: I agree. I can see him having those sorts of conversations in the NYC real estate world and they’d be perfectly normal. You’re right that there have never been consequences for him for anything he’s done. Why would he think things would be different with the campaign and being president?

  140. 140.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good plan, and Mensch certainly can draw wild con conclusions. But as Adam points out, she seems to have very solid sources, as does Claude Taylor, and those sources often agree.

  143. 143.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I saw a twitter thread or series of tweets yesterday about some subject (Syria maybe?) about how all the bots started tweeting the exact same wording at the exact same time–and in multiple languages. It’s kind of shocking when you see it that way. And it’s easy to see how it influences how people talk about, think about, see issues.

    I also agree the tendency is there for all the alt-righters, etc to be promoting the same things. I do think the level of coordination that the apparently active measures provides can turn it into a bigger thing than it would be otherwise.

  144. 144.

    Adam L Silverman

    @GregB: You are not wrong. The majority of these folks seem perfectly happy to posture in comment threads while hiding behind nyms, not going out and actually doing anything. And as long as that cathartic outlet is sufficient, then things will remain isolated and, essentially, manageable. If (when?) that ceases to be the case, then there will be serious problems.

  145. 145.

    efgoldman

    @GregB:

    The Fox, Drudge, Breitbart, Jones nexus has created literal mental cases

    Some of whom live in the White House, some of whom work in the Capitol, and some of whom work in executive departments.

  149. 149.

    Lizzy L

    @efgoldman: Hutchinson was one of the “managers” i.e. prosecutors of Bill Clinton’s impeachment in the House. He supported Huckabee in the 2016 campaign until Huck dropped out, when he switched to Rubio. But when Trump became the nominee, he became a Trump supporter. Of course he did. He’s just like all the rest of them.

  150. 150.

    danielx

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And the usual suspects will loudly chorus that it’s all fake news, horseshit, or whatever and that Trump is being railroaded and the Russians are, in point of fact/fantacy, our bestest buds because Putin knows how to get shit done, something-something. I can see people like Alex Jones telling people to go out in public with rifles, because the shitrain is about to start. None of these congressional hearings and such, nosiree.

  151. 151.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: I agree it’s prudent to be skeptical. Her twitter feed can be very hard to follow and she tweets so much that it’s very easy to miss things. And she’s certainly got a distinct personality.

  153. 153.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, I skimmed your post but was unable to read the whole thing last night or comment in the thread. I caught up with some of the twitter conversations on it today. It’s crazy stuff, isn’t it? And of course it started in Russia!

  156. 156.

    GregB

    Something that hasn’t really been explored or fleshed out vis a vis the election and contemporary conservative thought is as follows.

    They have been saying for decades that the media is liberal and full of anti conservative propaganda. They have argued ad nauseum that they are a distinct disadvantage due to power and influence of the media saturation.

    Now strangely in regard to the election and to evidence of heavy Russian meddling and mediated influence intrusion they want to argue that it is silly to think that information and propaganda can have any meaning effect on people’s opinions and actions.

  157. 157.

    randy khan

    @amk:

    Airlines are going to accommodate crew being repositioned for a flight before paying passengers no matter what we want them to do. Making the decision well before boarding begins *is* a big improvement over what happened in Chicago. Besides avoiding a scene on the plane, it makes it easier to get volunteers and reduces the chance that someone will get bumped involuntarily.

  160. 160.

    MomSense

    @Yarrow:

    The kick in the gut of the last election and the ongoing Russian interference/manipulation of our politics is that they are exploiting existing strains of racism, misogyny, distrust of institutions, lazy opportunistic media, etc. If we are to have a functioning democracy we are going to have to figure out how to find some sort of consensus about facts, history, and science.

  161. 161.

    efgoldman

    @GregB:

    they want to argue that it is silly to think that information and propaganda can have any meaning effect on people’s opinions and actions.

    “Logic” and “reason” and “thought” and “follow thru” have never been arrows in their quiver.

  162. 162.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @GregB: This is because everything, but everything is projection with these assholes.

    Also, too: “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” – John Kenneth Galbraith

  164. 164.

    Adam L Silverman

    @burnspbesq: They did. On request of one of the companies that makes one of the drugs. Apparently the company told Arkansas they wanted the drugs returned as they were purchased under false pretenses and would never have been sold/supplied if the company knew what they would be used for. Arkansas agreed to return the drugs and then never did. There is a separate state in regard to one of the eight men on death row on the basis of whether he is mentally competent enough to be executed.

  165. 165.

    Yarrow

    @GregB:

    they want to argue that it is silly to think that information and propaganda can have any meaning effect on people’s opinions and actions.

    I had this argument with a wingnutty person ages ago. And when he said pretty much the above, I said, “So if none of that works, why do companies spend so much money on commercials and ads?” He had to admit I had a point. It’s just stupid to think we aren’t going to be influenced by what we see and read.

  166. 166.

    Mnemosyne

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Yes, Clemmons was very convincing, in part because he really was batshit insane and thought God was talking to him. His family said that in the weeks before he killed those cops, he was waking his family members up in the middle of the night and forcing them to pray for hours.

    But he was Black, not white. That’s the only point where I was correcting you.

    DuMond had an even more compelling story — he insisted that he was an innocent guy who had been persecuted by the evil Clintons because one of his victims was a distant cousin of Bill Clinton. That claim was even more compelling to Huckabee than any claim to Christianity that DuMond had.

  167. 167.

    efgoldman

    @MomSense:

    If we are to have a functioning democracy we are going to have to figure out how to find some sort of consensus about facts, history, and science.

    Follow Villago’s advice.

  170. 170.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    A question occurred to me the other day but I don’t know where to look for the answer: if the Attorney General seems to have committed a crime, who brings the evidence to a grand jury? I am quite frankly assuming that Sessions has committed or will commit crimes beyond the scope of the Russia investigation.

  171. 171.

    dogwood

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
    People here will correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s been my understanding that Mensch is a Brexiter. So I’m pretty skeptical of someone who rails against Russian interference in American politics, but seems fine with the same in her own country.

  172. 172.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: Yeah, it’s a problem. I’m maybe a bit optimistic that the huge nature of the Russian interference in our election, and how social media was used to influence people, might be a bit of a wake up call. Some people will realize they were manipulated. Not all, but some. And that may lead to questions about who to trust. Could all turn out poorly, but it might lead to recognizing that we need consensus on key issues.

    We’ll see. I don’t know how it’s going to turn out.

  173. 173.

    Suzanne

    @Yarrow: I was a graphic design student many years ago. Of all of the visual arts, that’s easily the one that people encounter the most. One of the statistics that a professor cited to me (and I have no idea if it’s true, but it seems very plausible that it is) is that the average American today sees as many images in one day as someone living in the year 1900 saw in their entire lifetime.

    It is simply impossible for that not to impact the way your mind works.

    It makes it plain that the intellectual challenge of our time is not going to be discovering information, but sorting, evaluating, and chaining it together.

  174. 174.

    Yarrow

    @dogwood: She is a Brexiter. She seems completely convinced that the Leave campaign was decided by British voters with zero outside influence. Seems daft to me because there’s plenty of evidence of influence from elsewhere, especially the changing of tactics to anti-immigrant when the Leave campaign wasn’t going well. I think she’s got a huge blind spot about it. I wonder what she’ll do if info comes out about how the Leave vote was also influenced by a Russian disinfo campaign.

  175. 175.

    The Dangerman

    @MomSense:

    And Louise Mensch has everyone ruled up about imminent arrests and impeachment.

    Link or it didn’t happen.

    I expect Trump is going to pardon everybody for everything, perhaps with a giant FU by grabbing Ivanka’s ass on the South Portico and daring people to impeach him (and unless Trump takes a shit on Reagan’s grave, he will never be impeached).

  176. 176.

    burnspbesq

    @Mnemosyne:

    Ordinarily it’s the U.S. Attorney for the district in which venue lies, which can be a complicated question to unravel. I haven’t looked to see who the actings are in SDNY or DDC. The USA for EDVA is acting as Deputy AG because that job became vacant when Yates was fired.

  177. 177.

    Achrachno

    @dogwood: Even if she’s totally wrong on some things, she might still be totally right on Trump-Russia. We have to evaluate the evidence provided and not get into discussing how much we like certain people. That’s literally ad hom territory.

  178. 178.

    GregB

    @Suzanne:

    I have been talking about that for years.

    To think some woman who was born in the 1800’s just passed away. Imagine that arc of change during her life.

  182. 182.

    efgoldman

    @burnspbesq:

    Ordinarily it’s the U.S. Attorney for the district in which venue lies, which can be a complicated question to unravel.

    Also. it’s entirely possible that NY AG Schneiderman is running a parallel investigation into financial crimes, conspiracy, etc.
    That could create a REALLY interesting constitutional question. The president can only be removed by impeachment in the house and conviction by the senate (or by the 25th amendment).
    But it doesn’t say anything about a state’s jurisdiction.
    A trial in Manhattan, of the sitting president who refuses to resign, could be the biggest political circus in our history.

    ETA: If I were in line to be the trial judge, I’d leave the country.

  183. 183.

    Goku

    @The Dangerman: Do you honestly think that won’t have consequences? You think people are pissed off now? Pardoning POIs will only raise more questions and not even the idiot media will be able to ignore/spin that. Enough people will stay angry until 2018 and the House will be swept. Before that happens, I expect the GOP to start impeachment to save their own skins

  185. 185.

    The Dangerman

    @Goku:

    Enough people will stay angry until 2018…

    At this point, we are so far into “that’s unthinkable” territory, I’ll be thrilled to have elections in 2018. Fair elections, I mean.

  186. 186.

    efgoldman

    @Goku:

    Do you honestly think that won’t have consequences?

    Apricot Asswipe doesn’t think more than an hour ahead, and he definitely doesn’t understand “consequences.”
    It wouldn’t occur to him that once pardoned, everyone HAS to testify.
    Also, I don’t think he has state pardon power. No president does.
    This is going to be a great show, and a shitshow, no matter what happens.

  187. 187.

    Aleta

    @magurakurin: I’m hoping for the best, but all these sources floating around also bring up ghosts — Judith Miller’s sources for Iraq and Plame who worked for the Cheney administration, not to mention the CBS source who helped take Dan Rather out of reporting for both of Bush’s terms.

  188. 188.

    Goku

    @The Dangerman: Honestly, if enough voters vote and the results skew heavily away from how millions actually voted, then there will be hell to pay. Probably in the form of violent popular revolution or coup by some other part of the gov (IC or military). Either way it won’t be pretty.

    Oh and stop with the doom and gloom please.

  189. 189.

    The Dangerman

    @efgoldman:

    Also, I don’t think he has state pardon power. No president does.

    True, but everything I’ve heard sounds like a Federal offense (I should note that I’ve been mostly News Dark for about a month, so I could easily be missing something).

  190. 190.

    Mnemosyne

    @Goku:

    I do think that the Republicans are hoping to suppress enough votes in 2018 that they won’t have to suffer any consequences. I’m pretty sure they’re wrong, but we need to work our asses off for the next 18 months to make sure that they’re wrong.

  191. 191.

    The Dangerman

    @Goku:

    Probably in the form of violent popular revolution or coup by some other part of the gov (IC or military). Either way it won’t be pretty.

    Oh and stop with the doom and gloom please.

    Damn, Dude.

  192. 192.

    efgoldman

    @The Dangerman:

    but everything I’ve heard sounds like a Federal offense

    Everything to do with Russia. Russian money, campaign funds, sure.
    But he’s been a Manhattan real estate developer for decades. Nobody in that business, in that geography, for that time, is clean.

  193. 193.

    Goku

    @efgoldman: I admit I don’t know much about the president’s pardoning powers. I would hope that is correct. Even if it wasn’t there are still enough people in this country who care and they vote; and if they don’t they will. Sessions can’t disenfranchise all of us.

  194. 194.

    The Dangerman

    @efgoldman:

    Nobody in that business, in that geography, for that time, is clean.

    Oh, no doubt, he’s been playing with the Mob.

  195. 195.

    MomSense

    @Mnemosyne:

    I was looking at the numbers of voters purged in swing states since 2013 and you can see how we lost those states this year. Unfortunately it doesn’t fit the Bernie bro preferred message about how bad Dems are so it’s not getting the attention it deserves. The GOP stole the election by disenfranchising a lot of people.

  196. 196.

    Goku

    @Mnemosyne: The question to my mind is this: will enough high SES whites be effected in this effort? I’m hoping that not will the DEM base remain energized but others will be pulled into the tent. Especially new people who have never voted before and are appalled by Trump and Repubs. If enough of them are disenfranchised, then will be the straw that breaks the authoritarian’s back

  197. 197.

    Chet Murthy

    @efgoldman: Also, given NY’s status as basically the financial center of the US, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that NY has all sorts of laws about financial shenanigans and money-laundering. I remember during the financial crisis, lots of the action was in NY state courts for that very reason. And a lot of what’s been reported about his early years, is replete with money-laundering for mobbed-up Russkies.

    IANAL, YMMV, etc.

  199. 199.

    Goku

    @The Dangerman: Creating a hypothetical based off your comment, which started off negative. It’s okay to vent, but the deadline for that level ended about 4 months ago. It helps no one, least of all yourself

  200. 200.

    efgoldman

    @Goku:

    Sessions can’t disenfranchise all of us.

    Nobody in DC has power over state AGs, state courts, or state voter rolls that don’t want to allow them to.

  201. 201.

    Goku

    @EBT: He can try. Let’s pretend he does and is successful. Do you think Americans who participated are going to take that? Sessions will need double whatever SS detail he has now to even begin to think about surviving to 2020

  203. 203.

    Goku

    @Goku: Can’t edit anymore, so correcting typos:

    The question to my mind is this: will enough high SES whites be effected in this effort? I’m hoping that not only will the DEM base remain energized but others will be pulled into the tent. Especially new people who have never voted before and are appalled by Trump and Repubs. If enough of them are disenfranchised, then that will be the straw that breaks the authoritarian’s back

  204. 204.

    efgoldman

    @Goku:

    Federalism might yet save us, or least prevent the situation from getting worse

    Look at the Washington (and other) state AG suits against the immigration EOs.

  207. 207.

    NotMax

    @Siubhan Duinne

    While it is sort of humorous, we ought to steer clear of such derogatory first names for her, just as we thought the Rs ought regarding Michelle.

    IMHO.

  208. 208.

    dogwood

    @Achrachno:
    There’s nothing ad hom about recognizing she’s a Brexiter. It’s a fact. And there’s nothing wrong wrong with being skeptical about a source who seems to have some blind spots when it comes to Russian influence in Britain.

  209. 209.

    Mnemosyne

    @MomSense:

    The GOP stole the election by disenfranchising a lot of people.

    Yep. That’s been my personal hobby horse since November. It’s appalling to see not only the number of people who were disenfranchised, but to see how many people supposedly on the left don’t give a shit and insist that we just need to find new voters since minority voters have been disenfranchised and then we’ll, like, totally circle back and give people their voting rights again. It’s really infuriating.

  213. 213.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @NotMax: The corruption is the same. These people are fascists. You can’t play nice with them, they will not reciprocate.

  215. 215.

    Achrachno

    @dogwood: “There’s nothing ad hom about recognizing she’s a Brexiter. It’s a fact.”

    But if you try to use that fact to defeat her arguments on another matter, Trump-Russia, then you are off in ad hom territory, “She’s a Brexiter so she must be wrong about Trump too” seems to be your argument. Faulty logic. OK? If she’s wrong about Trump, show me that. Show me how her argument is defective. Don’t tell me about her opinion on Brexit, which is literally irrelevant to the issue.

  218. 218.

    TenguPhule

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s appalling to see not only the number of people who were disenfranchised, but to see how many people supposedly on the left don’t give a shit and insist that we just need to find new voters since minority voters have been disenfranchised and then we’ll, like, totally circle back and give people their voting rights again. It’s really infuriating.

    What’s really infuriating is that the GOP is gonna do it again, from a stronger power base and with more official resources and support.

    And I would not bet against them succeeding, again. Who can call them to account? It sure as hell isn’t going to be the justice system.

  219. 219.

    J R in WV

    @Yarrow:

    My only problem with Trump’s impeachment/arrest is that I can’t make a rational evaluation of the “facts” – I want it so much to be true. But they also have to get Pence, Ryan, McConnell etc, etc. And they have to have them stone cold with evidence at least as good as the Nixon tapes. Hoping.

  220. 220.

    trnc

    and that the said tape of Trump was played by Page to Russian intelligence, possibly including Mr. Diveykin, the Russian official in charge of hacking the election; and that multiple foreign intelligence services, among them the UK, Germany and Ukraine, have a tape of this; and that finally, in October, the FBI was able to listen to that tape.

    If true, then one more example of how screwed up Comey’s priorities were right before the election.

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