Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

No Justins, No Peace

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / How To Recognize A Russian Intel Operation

How To Recognize A Russian Intel Operation

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When you work at a place like Los Alamos, one of the potential job hazards is that the spy services of other countries may try to recruit you. Between required training sessions and the rumor mill stories about successful and other attempts, you learn how it’s done.

Rolf Mowatt-Larssen explains some of it. The Donald Trump, Jr., meeting was of a different sort than what I was warned against, although there are many similarities.

The warning signs are clear if you are aware of how such things work. A Russian (or Chinese, or perhaps other nationalities) colleague offering help out of nowhere, which seems to have been the case for Donald Jr., should raise questions. At a lower level, an acquaintance would not start with such an offer, but merely a personal interaction. Then favors might be exchanged, copies of scientific papers shared, leading up to more questionable types of sharing.

Considering that sequence, I suspect that Mowatt-Larssen’s article is not quite complete. Russian contact with Rob Goldstone, who then contacted Donald Jr., was a gentle testing of the waters, but it’s likely that even gentler testing preceded that.

Both Donald Trumps have been fascinated by Russia since the 1980s. But that is not the same as being willing to work with Russia during his political campaign. The earlier testing would have been among people working for the Trump campaign. This is where Jeff Sessions’s contacts with Sergey Kislyak, Carter Page’s talks in Russia, Michael Flynn’s romance with RT, and probably other contacts paid off for the Russians.

It’s possible that none of those contacts amounted to offers of collaboration,* just collegiality and trust-building. The responses from the Trump campaign, however, must have been favorable enough for Russian intelligence to believe a next step would be reasonable. Colin Kahl points out that Trump senior was also showing public indications in that direction.

Clearly, Donald Jr. had not had the briefings that Los Alamos employees do. But one might expect some caution when an email proclaims Russia’s desire to help get your candidate elected. The fact that he expressed enthusiasm suggests that 1) winning was all, and any help was welcome or 2) there was a continuity of relationship between the Trumps and Russian figures that made the offer seem normal. Caution was eclipsed.

_____________________________

* I dislike the horrendously overused word collusion. Lawyers say it has no legal meaning.

 

Cross-posted at Nuclear Diner.

Reader Interactions

40Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    But one might expect some caution when an email proclaims Russia’s desire to help get your candidate elected.

    Not from any of these clowns, Katie.

  3. 3.

    Roger Moore

    There were obviously previous contacts; that’s clear from the emails Trump Jr. released. How else can you explain the “this is part of Russia’s support” line? There was an expectation/belief that Russia already supported Trump. The only thing that’s unclear is if they had already moved from moral to material support.

  4. 4.

    germy

    Matt Taibbi says he was approached a few months ago by an associate of Veselnitskaya.

    Like Veselnitskaya, this person had been lobbying on behalf of a Russian-directed company called Prevezon to overturn the Magnitsky Act, a 2012 law which sanctions Russia for human rights abuses.

    The interview was off the record, so I can’t say much about it, except to say that my experience was weirdly similar to the account Trump Jr. offered about his meeting with Veselnitskaya.

  6. 6.

    patrick II

    I think the word collusion has been used precisely because it has no legal meaning. It means people cooperating to do something evil. Back before we knew as much as we do now — particularly about the Trump/ Goldstone emails — we could freely speculate about “collusion” without being assailed for inadequate proof of illegality. I agree that now, specifically relating to those emails and that meeting, it is indeed time to start using the word “conspiracy”.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    It will be interesting to see if Trump returns to Russia the diplomatic compounds. In that case, I assume that they are holding tapes of the adoption meeting.

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    @JPL:

    It will be interesting to see if Trump returns to Russia the diplomatic compounds.

    What do you mean if?

  9. 9.

    germy

    @Baud: In the article he goes into detail about what was done to Magnitsky. Not a pretty picture.

    But he seems to imply Veselnitskaya is more of a small potatoes operator rather than a representative of Vlad.

  11. 11.

    TenguPhule

    How To Recognize A Russian Intel Operation

    I believe the first clue was the Russians.

  14. 14.

    TenguPhule

    A federal judge found an anti-abortion activist known for clandestine videos of abortion-rights advocates in contempt on today after additional secretly-taken recordings appeared online.

    U.S. District Court Judge William Orrick said David Daleiden, a leader of the anti-abortion Center for Medical Progress, had violated the judge’s injunction against releasing additional videos.

    Orrick ruled Daleiden’s lawyers, former Los Angeles prosecutor Steve Cooley and Brentford Ferreira, had also violated his injunction.

    Assholes. Just Assholes.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    @germy:

    But he seems to imply Veselnitskaya is more of a small potatoes operator rather than a representative of Vlad.

    She has obviously been promoted.

  16. 16.

    TenguPhule

    AND HERE’S EVIL NEWS NUMBER THREE!!!

    And in pointed remarks, Lew told Mnuchin to take the debt ceiling seriously — or face a potential financial crisis.

    Months later, Mnuchin is hurtling toward his first fiasco, unable to get Congress, let alone his colleagues in the Trump administration, on board with a strategy to raise the federal limit on governmental borrowing.

    His struggles are casting doubt on whether the political neophyte, who made his name on Wall Street, has the stature in Washington to press through a vote on a measure that former treasury secretaries of both parties have said is critical to preserving the nation’s reputation for financial stability.

    Doctor Strangelove’s ending is coming to mind here.

    One former Treasury official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive agency deliberations, said officials are now “brushing up on options in the ‘crazy drawer.’ ”

    Fucked, we are.

  18. 18.

    gene108

    I think, if Trump had not won, the Russian interference would be taking a back burner to whatever “investigation” Chaffetz and who ever else decided to have hearings in emails, Benghazi, etc.

    I guess this is a small, very, very small, blessing, I guess.

  19. 19.

    Yarrow

    Clearly, Donald Jr. had not had the briefings that Los Alamos employees do. But one might expect some caution when an email proclaims Russia’s desire to help get your candidate elected. The fact that he expressed enthusiasm suggests that 1) winning was all, and any help was welcome or 2) there was a continuity of relationship between the Trumps and Russian figures that made the offer seem normal. Caution was eclipsed.

    It was not possible for the Trump team to say no because they are owned by the Russians. Have been in debt to them since the 90’s. In 2008 Don, Jr. himself said Russian money was “pouring” into their business and that Russians made up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of their assets. In addition to the money, there is compromising material on them of other types. They are owned.

  21. 21.

    debbie

    @JPL:

    I caught a bit of a report this morning on NPR about the Russians wanting their compounds back. The Russian interviewed sounded kind of threatening. I don’t think they’re messing around anymore.

  22. 22.

    Yarrow

    @debbie: Re: the compounds:

    Just in: Russian Dep Foreign Minister Rybakov says Russian government "almost" at a deal on getting back property seized by the US— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) July 17, 2017

  24. 24.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @debbie:

    I caught a bit of a report this morning on NPR about the Russians wanting their compounds back. The Russian interviewed sounded kind of threatening. I don’t think they’re messing around anymore.

    Fuck’em. All Putin did was unite much of the world against him by election meddling. Russia, long-term, is doomed economically

  26. 26.

    gene108

    @TenguPhule:

    This is one of those basic things Congress should do, like passing a budget.

    It shouldn’t even make the news.

    And yet here we are.

    We are run by a bunch of clowns, who can’t do the basic shit they are required to do by the Constitution.

  27. 27.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @germy: Thanks for the Taibbi article. I stopped reading him a while back.

    As he notes, the connections with the Magnitsky Act are weird. This may be one of those places where we underestimate just how much an American action has irritated Russia, or, more specifically, Putin.

    It’s possible that Veselnitskaya is a two-bit lawyer focused on the Magnitsky Act AND a Kremlin cutout to ensnare the Trumpies.

    I’m not convinced that the Trumpies have been owned by the Kremlin all along. Entangled, yes, and now the Kremlin may be trying to reel them in.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    @gene108:

    It shouldn’t even make the news.

    And yet here we are.

    Tell me about it.

    These idiots have no idea of the forces they’re messing with here. American credit is the literal gold standard for ALL debt in the world. Defaulting on it or even failing to pay on time risks a disaster that is simply mindboggling.

  30. 30.

    mai naem mobile

    Jared didn’t give a shit about anything except for getting his ass out of the 666 5th Ave building sling. It’s really disgusting. I bet the buidling doesn’t mortally endanger the Kushner empire, just makes tough slogging for a few years until property values catch up to what the moron paid for it.

  31. 31.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Senators Jerry Moran of Kansas and Mike Lee of Utah have said they will not vote for the Measure to Proceed on the Senate health bill. This means that the bill is dead for now. But we can’t assume that it will stay dead. Continue to call your senators.

  32. 32.

    kindness

    I don’t know….it sure seems to me as if the entire Trump family is all to happy to be productive ‘partners’ with their Russian money, I mean friends.

  33. 33.

    sdhays

    @gene108: It shouldn’t even be something Congress has to do. It’s implicit with Congress’ spending authorizations. The “ceiling” shouldn’t exist. It’s there because stupid con-stupid-tives like demagoguing it.

  34. 34.

    smintheus

    Collusion means creating a secret agreement (literally playing along with someone else).

  36. 36.

    Jinchi

    The fact that he expressed enthusiasm suggests that 1) winning was all, and any help was welcome

    Any help was welcome. I’m surprised that I never see mention of the fact that the Trump campaign got caught red handed soliciting donations from foreigners and continued to do it well after it had been discovered and they had been told it was illegal.

    July 2016:
    Trump campaign solicits illegal foreign donations despite warnings
    Donald Trump’s campaign is still soliciting illegal donations from foreign individuals — including members of foreign governments at their official email addresses — weeks after the campaign was put on notice by watchdog groups.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/288031-trump-campaign-solicits-illegal-foreign-donations-despite-warnings

  37. 37.

    Mike in DC

    @smintheus:
    Conspiracy, aiding and abetting, and being an accessory after the fact are all actual crimes, and they fit the general concept/rubric of collusion.

  38. 38.

    NCSteve

    Don Jr.’s involvement is peripheral, not the real story. The real story is that Kushner and Manafort dropped everything to attend.

    The thing I find most perplexing is that despite the fact that everyone involved who has talked to the media or the public has been repeatedly caught telling demonstrable lies, the MSM nonetheless seems to take their claims that Kushner and Manafort were uninterested, fiddling with their phones or left early at face value.

  39. 39.

    Redstatefemdem

    A law school professor told our class that the purpose of college was to teach us to think and that of law school was to teach us to think like lawyers. I don’t have an opinion on the legal issues of the Trump campaign members’ or administration’s actions, but my gut tells me there is a tremendous amount of dishonesty going on here. None of this is new to anyone on this website-the thoughts and feelings about all of this. The reason I’m prompted to comment in a friendly atmosphere, is, growing up in the 50’s, watching old Popeye cartoons, after taking insult after insult from Bluto, he would say “‘I’ve had all I can stands, I can’t stands no more.” There’s not much I can do to affect any outcome from here in Louisiana so I’m very, very grateful to those of you in states who are calling, etc, doing things that can have an effect. Thank you. Also, thank you Balloon Juice and some other websites for being a place where I can read the articles and comments from and by people with whom I am ‘simpatico’. Together we can get through this and I believe, and have had the experience that Truth (however you may define it) ALWAYS wins out in the end. It’s just the there can be pain on the way to the end and that’s where we help each other. Take care and have heart.

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