Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Joe Lieberman disappointingly reemerged to remind us that he’s still alive.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

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148Comments

  3. 3.

    ArchTeryx

    Will repost from previous thread.

    I’m a big WWII buff and I seriously loved Dunkirk. It was telling three very narrow stories and it told them extremely well. It also helps to recall that it was the Allies’ Darkest Hour – France occupied, Western Europe days from falling, the Nazis preparing a massive cross-channel invasion, and the Americans nowhere to be found. This was war as it actually was – capricious and utterly horrifying.

    And it’s not like there was zero heroism. The Spits pilot who managed to shoot down a JU-87 in a dive with no engine actually had me stand up and cheer.

    My one objection was how much the French were written out of it, when it was pretty much the French Army that held the Germans at bay long enough to get 300K people off that beach. There was a nice touch at the end, though, when the senior officer said he was staying on the beach until the French defenders were evacuated, too.

  5. 5.

    Mary G

    My first cat was so clumsy it was funny. She was always walking off the end of the sofa without meaning to, running into closed doors and such. The dumb one of my current pair is currently sleeping only on the cat tree, facing into one of the carpeted boxes with just her butt and tail hanging out.

  7. 7.

    Mnemosyne

    Keaton is napping on top of a pile of free weights. How this is comfortable, I don’t know, but it’s one of his favorite spots.

  11. 11.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @ArchTeryx: @ArchTeryx:

    My one objection was how much the French were written out of it, when it was pretty much the French Army that held the Germans at bay long enough to get 300K people off that beach.

    As I noted in the thread below: it was explicitly stated at the beginning of the movie.

  12. 12.

    Phylllis

    @ArchTeryx: We plan to see it next week. Also, Walter Lord’s The Miracle of Dunkirk is a Kindle deal today; I snagged it earlier for $1.51.

  13. 13.

    SiubhanDuinne

    At the moment, there are two movies I plan to see this week: Dunkirk, and The Big Sick.

  14. 14.

    TriassicSands

    I wish I had a dollar for every time a sleeping cat fell “out of bed” so to speak. They can be their own worst enemies.

  15. 15.

    ArchTeryx

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh I know, and you did briefly see a French emplacement. (There were French tanks as well, but they were vastly outgunned by the Panzerkorps). But it would have been better to give the French their own thread, and see them coming to the beach at the end.

  16. 16.

    lollipopguild

    When I was a kid we had a cat who liked to sleep on the top part of a chair we had in the living room. Because of where the chair was located in the living room if she fell off she fell all the way into the basement, one floor down. When she fell I would go down the steps to check on her. She was always ok but she always had a look on her face of “How did that happen?”.

  17. 17.

    A Ghost to Most

    First thoughts on arriving in Taos:
    Funky!
    Love the stick fences
    Zoning code must be ridiculously lax

  19. 19.

    NeenerNeener

    @rikyrah: Yep. Last night’s episode was the best of the season so far. I’m going to miss this show when it’s over.

  20. 20.

    WaterGirl

    @rikyrah: Yes and no. I am still a big fan, but I wait to watch it with my friend who won’t be around until September. So I have to console myself by reading the Tivo description every week.

    What can you tell me without spoilers?

  21. 21.

    ArchTeryx

    One other note about Dunkirk. Major Kong, a fellow who used to fly B-52s and now flies Fed Ex cargo planes, said wars are won by the side that is least incompetent.

    Both sides’ slips were showing hard during the Battle of Dunkirk. The Nazis, thanks to a three-way conflict between field generals and Hitler, held their Panzerkorps and the vast majority of the Luftwaffe in reserve instead of sending them all to that beach. Had they done so, the British would have either surrendered immediately or had their army wiped out down to the last man. But the British also made a serious mistake: They held the vast majority of the RAF in reserve as well, which left the soldiers on the beach sitting ducks for JU-87s and strafing. Yes, they wanted to defend against a cross-channel invasion, but if their army was wiped out, there was no way they’d repel an invasion anyway. Leaving those soldiers on that beach without air cover could have easily left them with no army at all.

    But the Nazis were more incompetent still, and thus the Brits managed to save their army.

  24. 24.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @ArchTeryx: Next time, why don’t you direct the movie? Nolan was doing something specific: telling three stories with different timelines that summed up the experience. I think he did it well. Someone else could have done a four hour epic that showed the French, the Germans, and the displaced civilians. It would have looked something like A Bridge Too Far.

  25. 25.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @HeleninEire:

    I’m tentatively also looking at Wednesday, but given the time difference, you’ll probably see it first. Look forward to comparing notes.

  26. 26.

    Major Major Major Major

    What a silly kitty.

    I’m also over talking about politics at the moment. Playing some Warcraft (well, queued for a raid) at the moment. Had some brunch, did a little work on my comic. I think I’m finally hitting my stride there and can get to a 2x-per-week update schedule very soon

    But God am I over talking about politics for the moment.

  27. 27.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Gonna see a lot of play readings this week. There’s a very cool organization called PlayPenn here in Philly that is dedicated to nurturing new plays. During the festival, each play gets two staged readings, and the play is rewritten in between when the playwright gets a chance to see how things play for a live audience. One of the plays they workshopped a couple of years ago just won a Tony for best new play on Broadway.

    It’s just amazing to see the quality of not only the writing, but the local acting and directing talent and what an effective job can be done with a reading, with a few chairs, a couple of music stands and a bare minimum of movement and a prop or two.

  29. 29.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @ArchTeryx: I am saying that the change that you seem to want in the movie would have resulted in a completely different thing than the movie we watched.

  30. 30.

    Karen

    I don’t have any cats at this time, but do have a pit bull; she will eat anything I am eating. I gave in to her sad eyes and she ate cabbage salad; I have been picking and eating snow peas fresh from vine, she not only ate one but asked for more. First time I have had a dog that will eat salad greens; my black lab would pick and eat tomatoes but no other vegetables.

  31. 31.

    Roger Moore

    @Mnemosyne:
    In the wild, cats sleep on things like tree branches. If you can lie on a tree branch and be comfortable, I figure free weights wouldn’t be any worse. Also, too, they’re probably cool in the summer.

  32. 32.

    HeleninEire

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Omnes Omnibus: Also, and this is important cuz I for lottsa family who get all their history from movies. Movies entertain; they don’t educate. If you want to be educated READ A BOOK. Well, there’s a thought.

  33. 33.

    p.a.

    You have to pay attention. At the start Dunkirk explicitly states there are 3 stories, each with different timelines.
    My question is, could the final Spitfire pilot have doubled back to the part of the beach that was ally controlled? Or was the evacuation over and Dunkirk wholly in German control?

    open thread: Major League Lacrosse has been livestreaming a game a week free on twitter this year. (Signal quality, production values, and announcer competence have varied.) Have any of the major sports done this? I haven’t heard of it.

  35. 35.

    schrodingers_cat

    My ginger kitteh fell off the new coffee table when she was trying to get down this morning. She misjudged the curved end, it was quite funny. She then proceeded to lick her paw and walk away nonchalantly.

  36. 36.

    Emma

    Well, ok, since it is an open thread. My father was admitted to the hospital on Thursday morning with vomiting and extreme stomach (or so we thought) pain. It turned out to be biliary pancreatitis. They had to wait until the pancreas returned to almost-normal before taking the gallbladder out, so today the decision was made. Surgery is tomorrow and he will probably return home on Tuesday. Doctors are very reassuring; he’s a strong guy in general and gallbladder removal is not difficult operation these days. Still he is 83, so I will be staying home from work the whole week while he recuperates. Uses up most of my accumulated leave, so if Tamoxifen bites, well, tough.

    It’s strange, this becoming the keeper of your keeper.

  37. 37.

    Schlemazel

    @ArchTeryx:
    Tissue Thin saw the movie too. Hope he stops by to chat about it. He also was very impressed.

    I haven’t seen it yet, I know how it ends.

  39. 39.

    Schlemazel

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Saw the Big Sick last night, we enjoyed it a lot. It got a little slow in places but it was a good mix of comedy and real life drama. I was pleased to see Holly Hunter, she did a nice job and I was sort of surprised by Ray Romano, sure he pretty much played his usual character but he did it well.

  42. 42.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Emma:

    All best wishes to your father. I hope the surgery is uneventful, and that he recovers fully and quickly. How lucky that you can take the full week off to look after him.

    Yes, taking care of ailing parents is something that many of us are or have been faced with, but it still seems odd.

  43. 43.

    Schlemazel

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Both. Its just an old joke with me. They used to run “The World At War” (a great series BTW if anyone is interested in WWII and has not seen it) late on Sunday nights. At times I was ready for bed before it ended & when the wife asked why I was stopping early I would just say “Eh, I know how it ends”

    So, yeah, Nagasaki in flames. Dark humor.

  44. 44.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Schlemazel:

    Love Holly Hunter, ever since the days of The Piano and Broadcast News. I’ve heard several radio interviews with the creators of the film, and have had a couple of friends give unsolicited recommendations, so I’m looking forward to seeing it.

  46. 46.

    WaterGirl

    @lollipopguild: Oh my gosh, I hope your mom wasn’t hurt when she fell to the basement! (just kidding) Glad your mom moved the chair!!

    None of my kitties has ever fallen out of anything.

  47. 47.

    Schlemazel

    @Emma:
    Best of luck to him. 83 is a tough age to have to deal with that but it could be worse. Hopefully he will be up and around better than new soon enough.

  49. 49.

    Schlemazel

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    It was an enjoyable 2 hours.

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Used to run that on Sunday afternoons here along with “The 20th Century” which I don’t think was supposed to be only about WWII but those are the only episodes I remember.

  53. 53.

    stinger

    @Emma: Best wishes that your father handles the surgery well. I must say, though, that the going-home-the-next-day thing still strikes me as strange. Patients must do okay, as it seems to be the norm for so many types of surgery.

  58. 58.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    I LOVE the expression on his face. Like, Who are you people and why are you all staring at me?

    NICU can really work miracles these days. My boss’s twin boys spent two months in NICU and seem to be no worse for the wear 5 years later. The one interesting thing is that, from infant through toddler stages, they were consistently two months behind on every milestone. Her doctor explained that that’s totally normal — basically, the two months in the NICU were their last two months of gestation, so they were two months behind their technical birthdate.

  61. 61.

    dmsilev

    @p.a.: There were still plenty of British soldiers on the beach when the fighter made its last pass (witness all of the cheering from the soldiers), though it wasn’t clear how far up the beach the perimeter extended by that point. Pilot probably could have bailed out instead of landing as well.

    Doesn’t really matter. It was an excellent film.

  62. 62.

    frosty

    @Schlemazel: I remember seeing The 20th Century. I thought the shows about the Battle of the Bulge (in the snow) was the Cold War. Figured it out a few years later.

  63. 63.

    Mnemosyne

    @Emma:

    Yikes — good luck to your dad! One of my coworkers had her gall bladder suddenly give out on her and had to have emergency surgery a few years ago. It helps that they can do it laparoscopically now, which means you heal a bit faster than with the larger incision, but still far more slowly than you want.

    And he should probably start getting used to a low-fat diet now, because he’ll need to do it for the rest of his life. It’s not too onerous, though.

  65. 65.

    Mnemosyne

    Back to cat talk: our youngest cat Charlotte will do this thing where she stands in the middle of the apartment and yowls until one of us hairless monkeys breaks down and goes to lie down in the bedroom so she can lay on top of us to take a nap.

    But, of course, being a cat, she has to play coy and pretend she doesn’t really want to lay down until we call her. Because she’s a cat.

  67. 67.

    HeleninEire

    @Baud: Hey boss. You have some very important decisions to make in the previous thread. See 184, 189, and 192.

    Me? Imma go to sleep!

  68. 68.

    Mike in NC

    Anybody who has seen and liked “Dunkirk” ought to check out “Atonement”, which has a pretty impressive Dunkirk sequence of its own.

  69. 69.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The trailers for Thor Ragnarok look awesome!

    Cate Blanchett as Hela…fulfilling the dark vision of Galadriel!

  74. 74.

    Ohio Mom

    @Emma: Tamoxifen? Then you must have been through a medical adventure of your own recently.

    Sign me, Too old for Tamoxifen, on Arimidex instead.

  75. 75.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Question for the Marvel Cinematic Universe fans, and I know there are a bunch of you here. I recently watched the latest Spiderman movie, which I liked a lot more than I thought I would. There seemed to be a lot of backstory I was missing which I was expected to know. For instance, this new Spiderman is a protege of Tony Stark. How did that come about? The movie skipped any actual origin, which makes me think there’s some other Marvel movie that has the origin story. Or maybe they figure we all know that by now and don’t need it.

    Actually one of the reasons I thought I wouldn’t like it was that I wasn’t sure that Peter had any innate powers. The trailers seemed to imply that it was all in the suit, and that seemed all wrong to me. Who needs Peter Parker then? Why not any schlemiel? But there were some things that implied that no, he does have powers such as super strength, the suit just adds some toys like the webbing. Still this point remains confusing to me: what powers are Peter, what are the suit?

    My other question has to do with Captain America, who shows up in a series of hokey Public Service Announcements that high-school kids are forced to watch. Again I get the feeling I’m missing a backstory here. Is there a joke here? Was he assigned community service for something perhaps?

    From a little bit of googling I get the impression that the backstory I’m missing on at least some of this is in Captain America: Civil War, a movie I haven’t seen and which I’m not sure I want to.

  77. 77.

    Ohio Mom

    @lamh36: He has a very expressive face. You can tell he’s taking everything in — he’s an alert one.

    Lucky you to have such a cutie in your life.

  80. 80.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mike in NC:

    Anybody who has seen and liked “Dunkirk” ought to check out “Atonement”, which has a pretty impressive Dunkirk sequence of its own.

    I saw it when it was first released — ye gods, that’s ten years ago! — but not since. And I must admit I had almost forgotten about the Dunkirk scene. Should find and watch it again; as I recall, it was quite a good movie.

  82. 82.

    Tazj

    Zooey looks like my Ben, who is brother to Star. However, Ben is fatter and his lower body is all white with a black tail with white rings. The black markings on Zooey’s head are very similar to Ben’s. I don’t think Ben could balance himself like that.

    @lamh36: I’m so glad your handsome nephew is home.

  83. 83.

    dexwood

    @A Ghost to Most:
    Funky is a good word to describe Taos. Long tradition of funky. Like so many things, it has changed, though. It was once funkier. If you make your way south to Albuquirky, I’ll buy you a beer.

  85. 85.

    ruemara

    @Major Major Major Major: I am looking forward to a raid, but I fear I may just suspend my account to enforce a buckle down approach to writing. All those practical panels on getting to the next step as a pro tv writer have had their intended energizing effect and I want to make this last, embrokening year really count.

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: The suit keeps Peter clothed, lol. The powers are all him. The webbing used to be just a machine he made, later versions gave him webbin as power. Barring his time with the symbiote suite from Secret Wars (the black inky one), the suit just preserves him from a nudity charge.

    Stark is not a mentor to Parker, but rather an interested party in this story. In most Spider-Man stories, Stark recognizes the brainpower of Parker and helps from time to time. But not enough (since Pete’s usually broke).

    Captain America was doing hokey PSA’s in the MCU. Yes, a bit of a joke, but no, not community service. Remember that Captain America is both a real Boy Scout and a joke on being a Real Boy Scout.

  86. 86.

    Emma

    @Ohio Mom: Second run of non-genetic, post-menopausal, estrogen-positive breast cancer. Three years Femara, two years Tamoxifen. It’s nearly over, thank ye Lady.

  87. 87.

    opiejeanne

    @SiubhanDuinne: Victory at Sea! I remember that too. We played a medley of the music from that show in concert when I was in HS. Southern Cross is the one I remember.

    I have an LP of the music from the show, from about that same period.

  88. 88.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @opiejeanne:

    I love the music, but then I am a big Richard Rodgers fan. Always thought it was neat that he and Hammerstein reworked “Beneath the Southern Cross” into the song “No Other Love.”

    Have a CD with all three Victory at Sea suites, which I think cover just about all the music for the TV series.

  89. 89.

    p.a.

    With all the talk of Dunkirk and WWII let’s not forget we’re still in the middle of the 100 year remembrances of WWI; alpha ‘how to kill millions’ to the latter beta model.

    Will be interested to see how/if Russia notes the anniversary of the revolution later this year.

  90. 90.

    Josie

    I just got some good news – or rather my youngest son did. After laboring in obscurity in the music world for a long time, he co-wrote a song that is featured in the new movie Girls’ Trip. His name is actually in the credits. For us, this is a really big ——- deal.

  95. 95.

    Ruckus

    Cheryl

    He fell off shortly after

    My roommates cat comes in my room all the time and jumps on my bed, trying to get 100% of my attention. She has fallen off the bed trying to do that. Problem for her was that there is a desk about 6 inches from that side and she fell between and couldn’t quite get her feet under her before she hit the floor. The look on her face was, and I’m having a hard time saying this, but it was priceless. I didn’t even know she understood the concept of WTF. Maybe she didn’t before that.

  96. 96.

    Emma

    @Ohio Mom: Unfortunately, in cancer, fair is a place you go to see which pig won the blue ribbon. :-) It seems I have (had now) the estrogen from hell. Which is why the long protocol.

  101. 101.

    Sab

    @Emma: This happened to my dad about ten years ago, at about the same age as your dad. It turns out we had to take him off his wine. He now drinks de-alchoholized wine (tastes kind of like vinegar crossed with unsweetened grape juice.) It comes in a bottle with a cork, so we just pretend its real wine. No problems since.

    Good luck to you and your dad.

  104. 104.

    Josie

    Thanks, everyone. I am so happy to see him with some success at something he loves to do.

  105. 105.

    Ohio Mom

    @Emma: I also had estrogen positive breast cancer, it will be five years in January.

    When I asked my oncologist if I will be done with the Arimidex then, or if I will be following the new ten year protocol, she smiled and said, “We’ll see.” She’s very smart and I trust her as much as anyone should trust a doctor but I would have liked a clearer answer.

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @Emma:
    Good luck to you and dad.
    Mom had hers out in her early 70s. That was about 30 yrs ago. She lived to 94. I don’t think it’s really much of a big deal these days.
    And yes it is a bit difficult to become their caretakers. I worked with my dad every day for almost 30 yrs (other than my service time) before we had to put him in a home. At which time he didn’t know my name and then he didn’t even know who I was. It was to say the least a different way of seeing things, being in charge of his health care, his life and his estate.

  107. 107.

    dmsilev

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    For instance, this new Spiderman is a protege of Tony Stark. How did that come about? The movie skipped any actual origin, which makes me think there’s some other Marvel movie that has the origin story. Or maybe they figure we all know that by now and don’t need it.

    Tony Stark connecting with Peter Parker was a subplot of Captain America:Civil War. I don’t think this iteration of Spiderman has had an explicit portrayal of his origin story; as you say, anyone going to see a superhero film probably knows that one without needing to have it spelled out.

  110. 110.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @ArchTeryx:

    My one objection was how much the French were written out of it . . .

    If you want more of the French, then you need to say what it is that’s in the movie that you want taken out. Nolan was adamant that he wanted the final cut of Dunkirk to clock in at less than 110 minutes, and he only had four of them to spare. His view was that he wanted it to be non-stop, white knuckled terror, and that you can’t maintain that pitch for any longer than that.

  112. 112.

    Ruckus

    @Ohio Mom:
    Hoping for the best for you, and Emma but I think they don’t ever really know, till they know, if you follow. I’m still waiting for my first real test that my cancer might be controlled. I’ve asked what do we do if it comes back not as good as we want or positive. There is never an answer, just let’s wait and see. It’s frustrating to have this hanging over your head, as much the unknown as the bad news.
    And because I haven’t said it out loud today, FUCK Fucking cancer. Who ever thought up this shit? Sure wasn’t any benevolent entity.

  113. 113.

    Jim Parene

    I love boats, ships and all watercraft, except go-fast boats. When my ex and I were in London we took the train to Richmond Palace. For our return trip to Town, we took a canal boat back to Boudica’s statue.
    My point is the vessel we took back to Town was a built in 1918. She was a Canal Boat, she was a veteran of Dunkirk. I felt proud to be aboard her. She was perfect for the river, but I could see her as being frightening, at the mercy a severe blow on the English Channel. I know she saved many lives.
    All did their all in a time of dire need.

  114. 114.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    The Spits pilot who managed to shoot down a JU-87 in a dive with no engine actually had me stand up and cheer.

    In a movie with remarkably few historical or technical errors, this was one of them. You can glide a plane with no power for quite a distance, but it’s extremely difficult to gain elevation as Farrier does here in order to get the shot. That’s especially true if you haven’t feathered the prop, which he doesn’t; you can tell because it stops rotating, which would just kill the aerodynamics. It should be rotating freely from the air current produced by the forward movement. Related to that,

    My question is, could the final Spitfire pilot have doubled back to the part of the beach that was ally controlled? Or was the evacuation over and Dunkirk wholly in German control?

    The British still had a portion of the beach; they cheer as he passes over after downing the Stuka. (That was one hell of a mission; Farrier made ace in one day. I’d call shenanigans, but it’s Tom Hardy, so . . . badass.) The question is whether he still has enough forward momentum to be able to bank and turn and still have lift. He almost certainly wouldn’t have had time to manually crank down the landing gear, so at best it would have been a crash landing. Which gets us to,

    Pilot probably could have bailed out instead of landing as well.

    Not by that point he couldn’t; he’s too low to have time for the chute to open properly and brake his fall. With parachutes of that era, you need at least 600-800 feet of elevation to be able to bail out safely.

  115. 115.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Ohio Mom:

    uld have liked a clearer answer.

    It’s that way a lot in medicine. Over the weekend I was talking to one of my oldest and closest friends about my own medical problem, which seems to involve a lot of “gee, I don’t know.” My friend, who has undergone more than one life-threatening medical crisis himself, says he trusts the doctors who say “gee, I don’t know” more than the ones who are very sure of themselves and eager to proceed. As he said about a $100k or so surgical procedure that was recommended to him: “it’s hard to give objective advice when you have so much skin in the game.”

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    With parachutes of that era, you need at least 600-800 feet of elevation to be able to bail out safely.

    As someone who has jumped a few times, while 600-800 feet is enough I wouldn’t want to do it.

  117. 117.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @ArchTeryx:

    Yes, they wanted to defend against a cross-channel invasion, but if their army was wiped out, there was no way they’d repel an invasion anyway.

    That was their thinking, but it wasn’t actually true. The British Army after Dunkirk was so shredded, and had left all of its heavy equipment in France, that it was incapable of resisting a German invasion even with the evacuation. The defense of the British Isles was the RAF and the Royal Navy, and the Germans never had a workable plan for defeating them. They might have been able to shove several divisions across the Channel, but would have had no way of supplying or reinforcing them once they were in England. This is why the decision to hold the bulk of the RAF back from Dunkirk was absolutely the correct one.

    Where a failure to evacuate Dunkirk would have had repercussions is that it would have eliminated any British ability to participate in offensive operations later in the war. They might have been able to hold North Africa, as that was done primarily with Commonwealth troops (Australian, New Zealand, and Indian), but any meaningful contribution to Overlord would have been a non-starter.

  118. 118.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Gin & Tonic: Omitted from that story is the fact that my friend is himself a medical doctor, which is why I was discussing my problem with him.

    I blame the editor of my post – you simply can’t find good editors these days.

  120. 120.

    Ruckus

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
    That people watching a movie might not like it being longer I get.
    As I understand it from first hand telling from combat vets, marines mostly, that I spend a couple of months in a navy hospital with in 73, that level of terror can last a hell of a lot longer than 106 minutes. It can last a lifetime. And do it easily. I know another fellow that got his plane shot in a major way 3 times. First time they landed on their carrier. Second they had to ditch next to it when they couldn’t land. gear was out. Third time they had to ditch in the middle of the sea way away from it and be rescued before the Migs found and machine gunned them. When he told me that almost 20 yrs later, he had the same look in his eyes that I saw in the hospital. I see vets occasionally at the VA who still have that look.

  121. 121.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    I’ll just reiterate that Dunkirk was a brilliant movie. The converging timelines element may not work for some people, though I thought it was very well done, but it’s a solution to a real problem, not a gimmick. Land, sea, and air combat all take place on very different time scales, and there’s no way to show both the continual, ongoing stress of Tommy, and to show Farrier and Collins go through a single mission in depth without doing something funky with your storytelling. Very few war movies are a truly combined arms affair, and so they don’t face this problem. In Saving Private Ryan, for instance, airplanes are a thing that happen to the characters, not something that any of them are involved in.

    The other creative decision that I’ve seen people react badly to is the extreme lack of characterization. However, contra many of them, it wasn’t a failure of execution; it was a deliberate choice. It is not meant to be about individuals; Tommy, Gibson, Alex, and the unnamed French soldier are meant to represent all 400,000 men. Who they are isn’t the point; what they experience is.

  122. 122.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Ruckus: Well, yes, if you are actually in it, that terror can last as long as the other side has ammo. However, a movie audience is most definitely not in actual combat, and you can’t maintain that level of tension within them for much longer than Dunkirk lasts. Longer war movies have interludes where there is a release of tension. Nolan didn’t want that.

  124. 124.

    The Lodger

    @Ohio Mom: I agree, the little guy is definitely ready to get involved.
    Let me add my congratulations to lamh for a fine nephew.

  127. 127.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ruckus: Yes, with a T-1 type chute. With a static line, one generally jumps at 1200 feet. Skydiving, one usually polls the cord at around that height. Lower and one can hit kind of hard.

  128. 128.

    Ruckus

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
    I understand fully. My point was that the enemy running out of ammo isn’t always enough to end the terror. It can live with you for ever. People don’t not talk about it because they don’t remember or because they don’t want to share, they don’t because they can’t forget no matter how hard they try. I was able to talk a little with a guy last year in group who was about 30, so middle east conflict. He was the youngest by far. He had that same look, that same affect. This is all wars, all combat that I’m talking about. You don’t get over it, you learn to live with it. Hopefully.
    I’m actually glad that the director did as you said and didn’t put breaks into the movie, that it’s non stop. That’s as close to reality as most people would ever want to know.

  129. 129.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I did, but I’m not sure every one else did. You certainly do, Village does, there are some others who might surly get it. Say it’s a pet peeve of mine. I don’t really know but I’ve been close enough to know, probably just like you that this terror doesn’t go away for lots of people. You know that your body can not make enough adrenaline for the length of time of most battles. And that is what your body needs to do to get you through it less mentally harmed. You’ve jumped out of planes, I think skied down mountains, I’ve raced motorcycles, we like that adrenaline rush. Battle runs through all your body can make long before it’s over.

  131. 131.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ruckus: There is a character in the movie who is brave and rational until he can’t be any longer. And someone who is able to explain that. The movie addresses it.

  135. 135.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    Also, I’ll give another shout out to Hans Zimmer’s score for Dunkirk. It may be his best movie score, and that’s a very high bar. It’s not as good as stand alone music as some of his others, but it’s extremely effective for setting the tone of the movie.

  136. 136.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    You do understand that I’m not knocking the movie or Tissue Thin don’t you? I haven’t seen the movie. I’m not sure I will. I have a very difficult time with war movies any more, it may be my exposure to so many people I see without limbs or with that look in their eyes all the time. Over the last 5 yrs I’ve spent a lot of time at the VA. the vast majority of people I see are about my age, they are Vietnam era vets. A portion is doing OK, many are not. I’m also at the at that point in life where the rear view mirror of life has seemingly gotten bigger than the windshield. And I don’t like it. But like this subject there isn’t a lot that can be done about it. Live with it and move on is all there is.

  140. 140.

    Vhh

    @Phylllis: He’s planking, which was made illegal in parts of Australia when people started falling odd of apartment balconies while planking.

  141. 141.

    Brachiator

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    .Also, I’ll give another shout out to Hans Zimmer’s score for Dunkirk.

    Christopher Nolan gave a great interview on the BBC Kermode and Mayo show, available as a podcast and on YouTube. Maybe you saw it or other similar material. It underscores some of the things you’ve written about. Nolan deliberately structured the screenplay to emphasize tension, echoing a piece of music he heard. Then he asked Zimmer to base the score around the same themes.

    But the result is more than a technical exercise. Always the point is to focus on the dilemma of the troops trying desperately to survive.

  142. 142.

    J R in WV

    @Emma:

    It’s strange, this becoming the keeper of your keeper.

    Yes, it is.

    Almost like a hallucination once you’re done for the day and trying to go to sleep…

  144. 144.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Brachiator: I have not seen it; I’m not really into podcasts. Some of it I’ve picked up from written interviews, but a lot of it is just plainly obvious watching the movie. It’s brilliant, but it isn’t complex, other than the timelines not being as clear as they could be; you have to be paying close attention to realize that some of the scenes from The Sea are identical to ones you saw earlier in The Air, just from a different angle. Personally, I like it that way, but it may lose some people.

  145. 145.

    workworkwork

    @rikyrah: My wife and I are. It’s pretty amazing.

    I’m looking forward to seeing what Tatiana Maslany does after the show is over.

  146. 146.

    SgrAstar

    @lamh36: He is adorable! My twin nieces were also premature and in the NICU for weeks- a very stressful experience for all. Jsyk, they’re in college now and doing great. Big congratulations to your family!

  148. 148.

    central texas

    @ArchTeryx:

    I think that if you read more of the history and less of the legends, the RAF was wisely committing fighters to interdicting German bombers and close support aircraft between the German’s airfields and the beach. Most of the air action took place 15-40 miles away where the Tommys could not see it. Their stories of abandonment were widely spread, long remembered, and largely based on an incomplete view of the battle. Not at all unusual in the midst of an epic defeat.

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