Fortunately I did that Browder testimony piece you all have been asking about before checking social media feeds…
Exclusive: President Trump personally dictated the misleading statement on Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with Russians https://t.co/FvPd6bU3Jf
— Washington Post (@washingtonpost) July 31, 2017
While it’s not a crime to lie to the news media, given the ongoing counterintelligence and criminal investigations being supervised by Special Counsel Mueller this is not good!
The strategy, the advisers agreed, should be for Donald Trump Jr. to release a statement to get ahead of the story. They wanted to be truthful, so their account couldn’t be repudiated later if the full details emerged.
But within hours, at the president’s direction, the plan changed.
Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had “primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was “not a campaign issue at the time.”
The claims were later shown to be misleading.
“This was . . . unnecessary,” said one of the president’s advisers, who like most other people interviewed for this article spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations. “Now someone can claim he’s the one who attempted to mislead. Somebody can argue the president is saying he doesn’t want you to say the whole truth.”
“This was . . . unnecessary,” said one of the president’s advisers about his direct involvement in the statement https://t.co/A5AO7ckbL3 pic.twitter.com/unRxHpfQN2
— Washington Post (@washingtonpost) August 1, 2017
JPL
The best hire that the Post did was Marty Baron, because he is fearless. Great reporting, and twitter reminds me that Trump spoke to Putin about adoptions also.
TenguPhule
Game on.
Keith P.
A new candidate for Worst WH Week Ever is born on Monday evening, right on schedule.
Laura
So much winning!
Show of hands – who already suspected that Don Senior dictated the lie, but was also present at the meeting?
Quinerly
It’s becoming very obvious that Corner Stone has a life without us.?
Baud
But what about Hillary? So unfair.
TenguPhule
@Laura:
I am running out of hands.
Villago Delenda Est
An innocent man doesn’t behave like this.
Soprano2
I saw this on CNN earlier, and wondered when it would show up here. How can anyone deny he’s acting like a guilty man? It gets more obvious every day. The coming tweetstorm will be epic, believe me!
Gin & Tonic
@Laura: I am very confident he was at the meeting.
JPL
From the article
BTW Gen. Kelly is doing a great job at plugging the leaks.
Adam L Silverman
@Laura: It would explain Sekulow’s strange comment about the Secret Service.
Mnemosyne
As I said in one of the threads below, of course Trump did this personally. Narcissists are fucking control freaks and always assume they’re smarter than everyone around them.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Good call.
scottinnj
“Hope Hicks, the White House director of strategic communications and one of the president’s most trusted and loyal aides”
Can we just call her his mistress already?
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: Most likely this had leaked a week or so ago. These stories don’t usually appear the same day as the leak.
TenguPhule
@JPL:
Remember, he thinks he can self-pardon his way out of this at any time.
Kay
What about Kushner? Was he asked about the statement at his hearing?
TenguPhule
@Villago Delenda Est:
Donald Trump hasn’t been innocent since he put out a hit on puberty.
schrodingers_cat
I knew it! Of course he was there.
efgoldman
@JPL:
What’s the old saying about fools for clients….
mai naem mobile
@Laura: when I first read your reply I saw ‘Dan Senor’ and I was like ‘wahhhh, that douchebag was at the meeting too?’
Thoughtful David
Wouldn’t this fall under witness-tampering? Jr. is surely a witness in the collusion investigation.
SiubhanDuinne
Probably just as well for Trump, since if it were he’d be facing close to 450 life sentences, to be served consecutively.
mai naem mobile
First test for John Kelly. We’ll have to see if Dolt45 has a twitter meltdown at 3AM.
lamh36
Per Joy Ann, subbing for Rachel, MSNBC has statement from WH outside lawyer…
“Fake News…”
really, the one sentence response began with “Fake News…”
TenguPhule
Meanwhile, the most dangerous man in Washington prepares to burn it all down.
Why more media outlets aren’t noticing the debt ceiling is on par with their crime last year of ignoring Trump’s scandals in favor of “Her Emailz!”
Adam L Silverman
@scottinnj: The whole timeline/thread is worth a good laugh:
lamh36
Also, did ya’ll ok…so this BS story bout Kelly calling Comey after he was dumped by Cheeto, and talking bout resigning in solidarity?
So we’re to believe that Kelly felt so bad for the way Trump dumped Comey,, that he decided to accept job as CoS…
because…
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: Kushner’s and his legal team’s response is in the article.
JPL
@scottinnj: This is internet smut, but I’ll share anyway. Supposedly she was attracted to Corey Lewandowski. I have no idea who Trump has his little paws on.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: That story isn’t pro Kelly. That’s a leak to undermine Kelly with the President. He now has a target that has been painted on his back.
patrick II
I am read about this at least a week ago. I don ‘t know why it disappeared. I guess someone finally figured out the legal implications.
Immanentize
@lamh36: best gif ever.
SiubhanDuinne
I just took a look at the dates.
Do y’all realise that the story about Don Jr. setting up the meeting with the Russian lawyer lady broke THREE FUCKING WEEKS ago??
Truly, truly, if someone had asked me today to put my hand on the sacred scripture of my choice and state for the record when that story broke, I would have sworn it was at least two months ago, or perhaps a bit more.
Apart from everything else he is doing to us, Trump is fucking with the sense of time as though he were Einstein in a doobie.
Cheryl Rofer
More news. I’ve followed Diplopundit for some time, and he’s a reliable source.
If this is true, it seems to say that nobody in the State Department can do anything without Tillerson’s permission.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and in fairness, trump don’t know much, but nobody knows better how dumb Fredo I is. Well, maybe Ivana. And Ivanka.
Major Major Major Major
He really does remind me of how an old client of mine would behave if he were president. What a fuckstick.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: Here you go:
eemom
I have a question for you and other military-connected folks: why did people like Kelly and McMaster, who actually seem to possess some modicum of integrity, agree to — and why do they continue to — work for trump?
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic: FYI I had one of you on the plane and immediately remembered why I quit drinking gin in high school
MazeDancer
Don Jr already testified to Congress behind closed doors. He had to be asked about the first statement. Did he lie for dad?
Or is somewhere in the orbit of the Committee the source of the leak?
Roger Moore
@Laura:
[Raises hand]
I suspect, as others have said, that Trump Sr. was not present in person but was listening and possibly actively involved via telephone. It would be very interesting, though, to see Secret Service logs for that day to see if the Secret Service (and hence Trump Sr.) was at the meeting.
TenguPhule
@SiubhanDuinne:
You too? I thought it was just me.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: Oh…I’m sure it’s not…I’m just saying it’s ridiculous on it’s face…makes absolutely no sense…I’m not fan of any Trump pick, but I’d like to think someone like Kelly wouldn’t change on a dime just like that…
At some point you just gotta wonder who’s doing what and poisoning the well, on these leaks…so to speak
Adam L Silverman
@eemom: I do not know. I was not consulted.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: we have become unstuck in time. Trump sends tweets from the future criticizing his actions in the present. Days feel like weeks and weeks like months. Maybe we should investigate Hillary’s emails.
(To mostly paraphrase Petri)
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer:
So we effectively no longer have a State Department.
Which leaves us with what to deal with North Korea again?
Kay
These people. I swear it would be easier to tell the truth once in a while. Trump lies constantly. No one would have blinked an eye if he had just said he wrote the statement. It would have been ONE of that day’s lies.
p.a.
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s a 4th dimensional cube of corruption coming at us through the random eruptions of an unstable wormhole.
tRump emits tachyons!
Keith P.
@Adam L Silverman: Also explains DJT’s mentioning of talking with Putin himself about adoption
different-church-lady
Wow! Mooch has been off the job for 8 hours and already the leaks start up again! /s
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
I thought it was tweets sent back in time from the future to warn the past about the present?
Cheryl Rofer
On the Trump story, as I’ve said before, consider the sources. Who comes out looking good, who looks foolish?
Looks to me like the family is coming apart.
Eric
I wonder what the FORMER chief of staff has to say on background? Hmmmmm. What timing.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: yes, he overshoots.
jl
” Somebody can argue the president is saying he doesn’t want you to say the whole truth.”
I would never argue that based on this story.I would argue that based on the fact that The Drumfpster tells so damn many demonstrable and obvious lies.
Wow. I feel like Somebody now! And I made it into the WaPo!
debbie
A control freak who likes chaos is a disaster waiting to happen.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: If accurate, and from everything I’ve been reading about the meshugas at State I have no reason to believe it isn’t, this is very, very bad.
Keith P.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I saw a tweet earlier from that Cernovich person, I’m not sure who he is but I believe he’s one of the loudest of the alt-right, that he’s very disappointed that The Mooch has been pushed out. and I saw a couple of trump campaign vets saying similar things. If those goons see The Mooch as a martyr and Kelly as his tormentor, things could go bad for him quickly. Bannon and the Fredos will make sure trump hears every whisper and rumor and “President Kelly” joke.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Twitter.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
Trump has always felt that he was above the law. In the past, he would use lawyers to work out deals. He thinks that the authority of the president makes his immunity official.
This personally dictating statements and direct involvement is consistent with his past behavior.
The Republican leadership continues to run interference for Trump. The only question is how far they will go to protect him.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: I don’t know anything other than what is in the public record about Kelly, so I won’t comment on him. I knew McMaster a bit more than 25 years ago and have followed his career with interest ever since, so I will take stab at guessing what made his do it. I would say a combination of ambition, a belief that he could have a positive effect (mistaken belief, imo, unless he is leaking like fuck) , and a sense of duty as a serving officer.
MomSense
@SiubhanDuinne:
This is why we are all so exhausted and stressed out. Trumptime passes in double dog years.
You can’t even go for an evening walk without breaking news happening.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Adam L Silverman:
Adam, wouldn’t the Secret Service presidential protection detail know right now if Trump were in that meeting? Were they not protecting him at that point?
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I could see Mooch being popular with people who think ‘cuck’ is a word.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cernovich claims to have a source within the White House. It is speculated to be Bannon or one of Bannon’s people on the staff (Gorka or the Breitbart reporter Bannon hired).
SiubhanDuinne
@TenguPhule:
All my most vivid memories of being stoned out of my gourd are somehow connected to the, uh, flexible nature of time.
Gravenstone
@Gin & Tonic: yeah, Trump is far too thick and addled of mind to pull ‘adoption’ out of thin air as an excuse. Unless he was present when it touched on (likely in the most peripheral of manners).
Brachiator
@debbie:
At this point, there is almost no difference between the Trump administration and an episode of Game of Thrones.
jl
@Keith P.: I’ve been wondering about how to parse that ‘Russian adoption’ cover story. Is it code for the adoption angle to the Magnitsky Act and sanctions regime (so they were talking the quid pro quo, gut if they say ‘adoption’ no one can possibly ever figure that out?). Or is it a cover story for the real subject of the discussions being how the Trumpsters could get adopted by the Russians?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and they seemed like such a healthy, loving group of normals
I’ve been rematching Game of Thrones, and I’m just imagining the look of surprise on Ivanka’s face when Tiffany pushes her through the Moon Door.
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: I just can’t keep. I was away from the puter for 5 hours and moochie was gone.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Seriously? Kelly is already doomed?
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
Is there a way to just dump Trump into Facebook and lose him in there?
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: lol That sounds like a story printed in love magazines in the sixties.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: ah, good times.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
All of em, Katie.
Kay
Now they have to call her. She’ll be the one who knew what both Senior and Junior were saying.
momus
Just when you think Trump can’t get any dumber.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Aside from the regrettable lack of incest. Probably.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: I am very concerned, have reached out to some friends in the know.
SiubhanDuinne
@Major Major Major Major:
I know. It’s just headspinning (which, of course, is probably the idea).
TenguPhule
FFS WP, you and your insane definitions for moderation.
p.a.
The
NightAdministration of theLongButter Knives.SiubhanDuinne
@Cheryl Rofer:
(Everybody together now) ALL OF THEM, KATIE!!
TenguPhule
Help, reply stuck in moderation.
Felonius Monk
@efgoldman:
But in Trump’s case he doesn’t even have to be someone’s client to be the fool.
Gravenstone
@Cheryl Rofer: Yet business leaders are typically versed, if not adept at delegation. So what’s the game here?
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: FWIW apparently Gorka has a vanity license plate: ART WAR.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: I sincerely doubt they’re this insane and incompetent specifically to make our sense of time all fucked up.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I thought i saw a photo earlier today that showed da Mooch in the room for the cabinet meeting w/the new CoS…
I’m not sure, but when did he resign before or after the cabinet meeting with Kelly?
Anne Laurie
@Gin & Tonic:
Possibly not in person. Deniability! But it was held in Trump Tower, he was in the building when it was held, and he could certainly have been “dialed in”, even by his semi-competent offspring, to such an
importantinsignificant convo.(And that’s leaving aside his history of surreptitious monitoring of other Trump properties… )
Adam L Silverman
@West of the Rockies (been a while): At the time of this meeting he was the only person involved with the Trump campaign with a Secret Service detail. Once he became the nominee his family got the full detail and Trump Tower got an additional on site detail.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
Maybe he does, but if he repeats what they say credulously, he’s a fool and/or a tool.
Radiumgirl
@Laura: I’m waiting for that one to drop.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Baud: She sat by and did NOTHING!
schrodingers_cat
@Gravenstone: Bloodless coup by Putin.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch says
? I’m singing in the
leaksrain, just sing in theleaksrain.What a glorious feeling, I’m happy again. ?
Radiumgirl
@Adam L Silverman: Bingo.
randy khan
@JPL:
The next article will have only 3 unnamed sources, just you wait.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Actually plenty of blood. Just that most of them have been Russians.
SiubhanDuinne
Okay, sorry, but this kind of statement from the likes of Adam L Silverman to the likes of Cheryl Rofer, in which the phrase “very, very bad” is used, makes me
a bit nervousfucking terrified.Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Except that the characters in Game of Thrones are way better looking.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: It is how the Russian government and officials discuss their opposition to the Magnitsky Act without mentioning it because they consider it illegitimate.
TenguPhule
@SiubhanDuinne: If you weren’t already terrified before, you haven’t been paying enough attention.
Adam managed to scare the piss out of me (and this is me we’re talking about) with that Vanityfair article about the Dept of Energy.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: I don’t know if he’s doomed, but he has people gunning for him already.
Felonius Monk
@Cheryl Rofer:
Maybe we’ve been looking at the wrong guy as “Putin’s Puppet”.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
You have seen the pictures of Donald Sr. and Ivanka, haven’t you? There’s more than fatherly love there.
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
Spoiler alert: they’re all doomed. It’s going to be like the ending of Hamlet.
Immanentize
When people talk about how clever some strategy of Trump is, or how this is a distraction for that, I always try to remind people that it is entirely amateur hour in the White House. More proof:
I was talking with a fellow who is rather high up in the FBI. Served under Comey, Mueller, and Freeh. Besides other info., He said that when Wray was tweet-appointed, no one at the White House bothered to actually appoint him by, inter Ali, sending a letter to the Bureau indicating he was appointed. Wray kept calling folks at the FBI to get information and to get “read in” but they had to keep saying, sorry, no letter. For at least two effin’ weeks!
Your Trump taxes at work.
TenguPhule
And all of this on the same day Trump tweeted that there was no chaos in the White House.
raven
And in more news the Cubbies are giving Steve Bartram a World Series Ring!
Cheryl Rofer
@Gravenstone: If you look at Rex Tillerson as a business executive who has not made the transition to cabinet secretary, some of his actions, like saying he doesn’t want to interact with the press, make a certain sort of sense. But I cannot understand what he thinks he is doing. Further, he is cut out of much of the administration’s foreign policy by Javanka, and maybe even Bannon, along with assorted other gnomes like Cohen-Watnick. He has been consolidating power in his office, with a few secretive aides. Today there was a news story that sounded like he was making the Office of Policy Planning his personal support staff, all to be hired, of course.
Rescinding authorities, though, gives him ALL the power. Now he is the only person who can approve parking permits and visas, along with many other things. I hope that ambassadors and others will raise hell.
But why? Damfino
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Hey Adam, what do you think about Kelly becoming COS? And what do you think of his record at DHS?
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: It isn’t in moderation, trash, or spam. I don’t know where it went, but it didn’t go to any of those places. Have you checked another blog?
Roger Moore
@Felonius Monk:
It’s like Scream; you’ll miss the plot if you think it’s only one.
Eric U.
I never quite agreed with it, but people have been prosecuted for obstruction of justice for lying to the press. Of course,that’s almost always democrats.
if someone really wanted to stab Kelly in the back, a batch of articles about how he’s going to stop Trump from being such an idiot would be an excellent approach. I am hoping they are forthcoming from the useful tools at the usual media outlets.
Kay
So now that we all know “the leaker” is Jared, what happens next?
He gets escorted out? Does Ivanka go?
randy khan
@Brachiator:
GoT is better written and more plausible.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: As a former soldier/officer what do you think of all the fluffing in the media, that T’s generals are getting?
ETA: The tongue baths that Kelly is getting are nauseating, much honor, such marine, wow!
As if only military men serve with honor, civilians are chopped liver. I find the fawning quite sickening.
Cheryl Rofer
Ah, okay, maybe less than it seemed.
Iowa Old Lady
He doesn’t believe he’s in legal jeopardy? How is that possible?
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Who gets to play Horatio? Does Pence really think he’s Fortinbras?
Anne Laurie
@scottinnj:
Why pick on a mere handmaiden?
Be fair, Trump’s at an age & condition when most men are less interested in coitus than they are in having someone cute & adoring hanging around to admire them — preferably in public. Hicks, who came into the campaign because she was working in Ivanka’s fashion ‘business’, is there to act as Ivanka’s stand-in when the Princess-Apparent is busy seat-warming, quote-lifting, and standing a helpful step behind Prince Jared.
To be honest, before all this news broke, I was working on a post… there were a bunch of stories over the weekend which suggested, to me, that Ivanka is preparing to throw Jared and even (if absolutely necessary) Daddy under the bus, worse comes to worst. She is, after all, but a simple wife and daughter from the sheltered hamlet of Park Avenue, too busy with her adorable young children and Etsy-level design studio to understand what the menfolk might’ve been getting up to, down at the VFW hall!…
Gravenstone
@TenguPhule: To be fair, the chaos won’t be limited to the White House…
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Adam L Silverman:
Intriguing… perhaps 3 Sticks has already made inquiries.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: As someone who has taught the Sun Tzu lessons at USAWC, and discussed the content of them with Saotome Sensei to produce supplementary reading material for the students, I can honestly say based on a review of Gorka’s work and my one run in with him that he couldn’t explain Sun Tzu, or any other part of the Bin Fa literature, if his life depended on it.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
We haven’t for months. They’ve left ~2000 positions unfilled; empty desks, empty offices, empty heads.
Rextill couldn’t have micro-managed Exxon that much and been successful, could he? Could anyone?
different-church-lady
@eemom:
Seem to possess; actually possess — two different things.
lollipopguild
@Iowa Old Lady: He lives/exists in his own little world where he is always right.
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: My limited understanding of him and his oeuvre indicates both.
Kay
@Eric U.:
Ken Starr wrote that Clinton “misleading” staffers was obstruction and witness tampering. It’s close but I’m not sure it applies since Trump colludes with his staff to mislead media and the public. Clinton at least protected his people.
I can’t believe he had that Hicks person carrying messages between Junior and Senior- “edits”. Trump can’t talk to his son directly? He has to get some underling involved in this bullshit story they’re cooking up?
magurakurin
@JPL:
Ivanka in his mind’s eye (remembering the good ole days when she was 13) while Conway services him. I always thought that was kind of obvious.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman: It came back at 82.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Read these:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/how-the-trump-administration-broke-the-state-department/
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/the-week-donald-trump-lost-the-south-china-sea/
different-church-lady
@Brachiator: Flying dragons. Other than that…
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer: Is it too late to request Asylum in Canada?
raven
@Adam L Silverman: Reminds me of Carl Spackler:
Mnemosyne
@Felonius Monk:
Tillerson is the guy who was receiving medals from Putin.
It’s Russian connections all the way down, and the MSM and Republicans didn’t give a shit.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mnemosyne:
Who’s Guildenstern and Rosencrantz?
Adam L Silverman
@Felonius Monk: Penetration at all levels.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I am tempted to suggest that you dig though the archives as you offered to do the other day, but I won’t. It is what the MSM does. It fluffs the military and works to find that moment when the Trump admin pivots.
NotMax
@jl
It’s an all but too obvious red herring so that when asked about the meeting he can say “we talked about adoptions.”
Like John Gotti saying he discussed the menu at Sparks Steakhouse.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Saw that. But did they get one for the goat?
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne: not Hamlet. Titus Andronicus.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I saw a retweet of Kellyanne Conway today, (pretending to be) angry that that this whole Russia/Collusion story has fallen apart! Where are the apologies! I wonder if that tweet was also dictated by the Rough Beast.
Gravenstone
@Adam L Silverman: Yet he probably believes that one or two Sun Tzu’s most famous quotes *definitely* define his (Gorka’s) existence.
Cheryl Rofer
@TenguPhule: Too soon, actually, unless your real name is Jared Kushner.
different-church-lady
@TenguPhule: There’s no incest in Game of Thrones?
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman:Doesn’t his actual military experience consist of two years as a TA MI type while he was at university?
raven
@Adam L Silverman: Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger. . .
different-church-lady
Shake me loose between 150 and 151 please and thank you.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
Hicks was typing up dictation like a good little secretary. You didn’t think that any of the Trumps learned how to type, do you? That’s for underlings.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
saw this earlier today
ETA: @Mnemosyne: My thinking as well: “Hope, take a memo: Happy Birthday, Eric, Love, President Donald J Trump, et cetera et cetera”. Sign a picture, too. Have Reince run out to CVS for a card”.
Cheryl Rofer
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
No joke, after the election I was looking up emigrating to Canada. It’s a pretty stringent process and they really want someone with advanced skills. Lucky me I’m in nursing school. But then you have to spend several years as a resident before being able to apply for citizenship.
different-church-lady
@Iowa Old Lady: Yeah, if there’s no legal jeopardy then what’s with the lawyers?
NotMax
@Immanentize
Detritus AnDONicus?
GregB
McFaul said the Putin expulsions are the largest bulk expulsions in US history.
Putin’s cuck Donald is very silent.
Weak. Sad.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: Yes, that is true. I was snarking on how many ways that phrase is a ridiculously incompetent cover story. But, I guess it is the only one that they have. When I read about Donnie Jr. and Kushner saying that all that talk about those loser Russian orphans seemed so out-of-the-blue and puzzlingly irrelevant to them, I busted out laughing.
@NotMax: Gotti had a better cover. But then he was a pro at the business Trump thinks he is in.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m starting to doubt these people could shut up long enough to “collude”.
rikyrah
Dolt45 misleading people?
NO!!!
REALLY?
Uh huh
UH HUH
Immanentize
@NotMax: Everyone stabs everyone.
Steve in the ATL
@raven: that’s awesome!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: found it, from yesterday
“slinking away”… I wonder when they got word that a story like this was coming
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: I remember your comments that you were personally not comfortable with the fawning, but what about the media and its reverent attitude towards T’s generals, even after Flynn’s resignation, it continues.
ETA: In case I am not clear, I just wanted a perspective of someone who has been on the other side.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Despite culling Scaramucci, who was low hanging fruit, and the reporting indicating he’s been empowered to make all the White House staff, including the senior advisors (Bannon, Miller, Conway, Jared, Ivanka, McMaster – though this one is a wee bit funky as the AP-NSA reports both directly to the President and through the COS, Schiller, Hicks, Scavino, etc) report through him, I’ll believe it when I see it. Specifically I don’t see how he’s going to stop Jared, Ivanka, Bannon, Schiller, Hicks, and/or Scavino from end running him. I’ll be surprised if he’s still there in six months.
As to DHS. There are two different questions here. The first is was he a good administrator. My understanding is he was. The second is more subjective in regard to clicking his heels and moving out sharply to the President’s orders that fall under DHS’s purview. The travel ban, rounding up undocumented immigrants/immigrants that have overstayed their period of residency. Things like that. My understanding is that his work as the SOUTHCOM Commander, working with regional allies and partners on drugs and human trafficking, had a profound impact on his understanding of these problem sets and how to resolve them. What I don’t know is whether he simply functioned as a good Marine and carried out his boss’s orders. He had, in interviews during the election, indicated that general officers/flag officers should be apolitical and indicated he would be willing to serve in a civilian capacity regardless of whether Secretary Clinton won or the President won the election.
What concerned me the most was his remarks about Congress and what Congress should and shouldn’t do. I know that the Marine Corps professional military education (PME) programs do a much better job of teaching both CIV-MIL relations and separation of powers and each branches role in making policy for his responses to be acceptable. My actual concern, however, is who will be his replacement.
Immanentize
@GregB: we do not have over 1000 Americans working for State in Russia. More like 300. Everyone else is Russian (mostly) or other. It is a classic bluff — Russians: You must remove 750 workers. Us: OK (send 50 home). Everyone is big dick person!
different-church-lady
@TenguPhule: For us or for Trump?
Miss Bianca
@Roger Moore: we won’t need em – it’s gonna be all Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, all the way down…
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: What about his attitude towards the press and the Congress, or anyone with the temerity to question him, seems profoundly undemocratic.
He also refuses to use discretion when it comes to deporting people. It was his idea to separate minors from their parents at the border.
What about the deaths in ICE custody. Is that being a “good administrator”. Or the dead don’t matter because they are not citizens.
NotMax
@Immanentize
[Exit, pursued by a shirtless man riding a bear.]
Steeplejack
@TenguPhule:
Incest is a forbidden FYWP word, I believe.
germy
Is the NY Times the official place dolt45 has chosen to “issue statements” to?
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Okay that’s much more reasonable.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
They could have the decency to cut her out of the crime-committing. She now knows more than either of them about the specifics- she heard both men. Presumably Trump Jr. wasn’t lying to his father so she’ll be the specific source for when it went from “this happened” to “say this happened”.
I’m thrilled with the chance that Kushner is throwing Trump under the bus. That would be too great. I’ve noticed that Kushner and Ivanka always come out looking good in these leaks. Mmmm. I wonder who the leakers are?
Adam L Silverman
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I expect he has.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: You can’t explain these things. Therefore it was clearly the work of the New World Order. And the Illuminati. And the Bilderbergers. And the Trilateral Committee.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
So you don’t think he has political ambitions that include trying to manipulate Trump into doing what he wants?
Adam L Silverman
@raven: I’ve met the Dalai Lama. I sincerely doubt he’d stiff his caddy. Doesn’t seem to that type of spiritual leader in exile.
Kay
@germy:
The NYTimes relationship with Trump is as weird as their weird hatred of the Clintons. Their political reporters seem to have some bizarre affection for him, like the opposite of their bizarre negative obsession with the Clintons.
schrodingers_cat
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Wait and watch.
Adam L Silverman
@Gravenstone: I’m sure he does. That guy got whiny and folded like a cheap suit on email. I can’t imagine what would happen if someone looked at him the wrong way in person.
different-church-lady
@Adam L Silverman: Carl Spackler is what we would refer to as an “unreliable narrator.”
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Internet choke point at Bohemian Grove.
different-church-lady
@NotMax: It’s not a big truck!
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
Phucking Turtle and the ZEGK better wake the phuck up and present a clean debt ceiling bill.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat:
What would be scary is if Pence were to somehow get taken down and Trump named him for VP and then Trump were removed. Say hello to President Kelly, a man who has the same lack or respect for the press and powers of Congress like Trump but with far more competence.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Soldiers are people. Some are awesome. Some are shitty. Most are somewhere in between. Any depiction of them, at any level, that doesn’t acknowledge this is inherently unbelievable. Generally, someone becomes a flag officer by being good at one’s job and not being inconveniently right when everyone else above one is wrong – that little error caused McMaster to be passed over for brigadier general three times. One percent of 2LTs get a star. They are not necessarily the bravest or smartest.* They are the ones who can negotiate the byzantine power structures well and also have a bit of luck – a war at the right time, etc. Does that answer your question?
*Part of my hopes for McM were that he really was one of the bravest and the smartest.
different-church-lady
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: “The Year of Four
PopesPresidents.”Burnspbesq
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
When a story like that goes quiet, it’s usually because there is a new group of players who take their responsibilities under Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure (relating to grand jury secrecy) seriously.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Just because: Comey, Comey, Comey, Comey, Comey chameleon….
germy
@Kay:
Kay
She was smart up to now. You never heard about her. Oh, well. So much for that. Thanks, Mr. Trump. Now she gets an expensive lawyer too. They should all just walk around with counsel. Stop talking entirely.
Wapiti
@eemom:
I don’t know their specific reasons. I’d just say that they both have ~30+ years of service, and have almost undoubtedly had some assholes and some fools for bosses. So part of it might be trained resignation to that sort of thing.
Assuming that they do have integrity – then taking the job, say of Natl Security Advisor, comes with the expectation that in the next 4 years there will almost certainly be a crisis. A Katrina, a 9-11, maybe China grabbing a spy plane. The President will have to make decisions, quickly. Even if the President is an ass or a fool, he or she deserves to have a ready staff to give them the ability, to maybe make decisions that spare the most American lives, or whatever we value. Maybe, at that time, Trump considers how history might view him and makes a good decision. So I mostly give McMaster a pass, though I’d agree with Adam that he might have a stronger hand if he were already retired.
Kelly… I don’t know why he didn’t resign over the Muslim bans.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Correct. And he’s consistently misrepresented it. He was in the Territorial Army’s 20th Company (20 Coy) while doing his bachelors degree in divinity/theology. He has gotten the name of the unit wrong. He’s claimed to have done work on the Troubles with the SAS. He’s claimed to have done work on Balkan war crimes. His total service time amounted to 90 days over 2 or 3 years. A lot of his claims have been debunked by British Army veterans.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/uk-defence-ministry-casts-doubt-on-trump-aides-military?utm_term=.whYedXLXz#.scz9qmrmb
Adam L Silverman
@raven: PEPSI!!!!
rikyrah
@Kay:
BWA HA HA HA HA H AH HA HA HA
Emma
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you for the nightmares, Adam. Jesus. The South China Sea… *whimpers*
JPL
@germy: Trump has this love/hate relationship with Maggie.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: I would walk away from them if I were counsel. “If you can’t shut the fuck up, I can’t help you. I will return the remainder of your retainer.”
lamh36
Ah…Ugh…
westyny
@Felonius Monk: All of them, Katie . . .
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: I believe I addressed that with this:
As for deaths in ICE custody versus being an administrator. As Secretary of DHS he is responsible for what happens in his department. Ultimately the buck should stop with him. That said I don’t know the details of the deaths, although I saw one today that was clearly the fault of the local jail where ICE had a detainee housed. Given just how sprawling DHS is – a department of 18 other departments – it would not surprise me that specific details of this stuff don’t get to him. That doesn’t excuse him for them happening, but there’s a difference between making sure everything runs smoothly and deaths in ICE custody. Especially given that the acting ICE director was clearly hired by the President because he looked like Michael Chiklis’s character in The Shield.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: So he parlayed the 22 into a suggestion that he was connected with the SAS? I have never seen a reference to what rank he held. do you know?
ETA: I caught the 20 vs 22. My bad.
schrodingers_cat
@Wapiti: Because he agrees with Miller and Bannon’s fevered dreams.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
Not really surprising that people with fake credentials would try to get into this administration, especially since they seem so indifferent to good background checks and proper vetting.
Kay
@germy:
I don’t know though- I live and work with what feels like 90% Republicans and they’re really not happy campers. I was teasing them the other day that I have showed enormous restraint not giving them shit on Trump but it’s true- I stopped. It’s no fun when they’re miserable and serious and they are miserable. Whatever Sinclair is doing it doesn’t seem to be working with The Base. I think it’s tough for genuine conservatives- people who are temperamentally conservative. They truly don’t approve of all this excess and drama. Obama actually has much more in common with them as a person.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I don’t know him. The people I do that do know him and the reporting indicate no.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: To me, this marks him as a monster.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: They had to put that damn traffic circle in.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: There have been a record number of deaths including some suicides. More than 10 IIRC in 6 months. Most immigration violations are not felonies, death seems like a harsh punishment for that, doesn’t it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
on Kelly, here’s a not-terribly reassuring thread from a former Senate staffer who saw Kelly at work
germy
@Brachiator:
You’d think people with fake credentials would try to be a bit more low key.
Instead of indulging in cosplay for the inauguration.
rikyrah
John SchindlerVerified account @20committee
My latest:
Putin Declares War on Trump
Why the White House should be very, very afraid of the Kremlin’s wrath.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t believe he got above corporal in the Territorial Army.
His claim was he trained the SAS for counterterrorism ops in Northern Ireland. This is just farcical on its face. His unit was involved doing cryptolinguist work at the time, not anything to do with counterterrorism. His would have been Hungarian translation. He also claimed because of his Hungarian fluency he did translation work pertaining to war crimes in the Balkans. This makes no sense as 1) Serbian and Croatian aren’t Hungarian and 2) This occurred several years after he left the TA.
The Marshall Center has distanced itself from his claims he was a faculty member there. Marine Corps U has distanced itself from him. I have no idea what Joint Special Ops University (JSOU) at SOCOM has done as I left there in AUG 2015 (I was briefly a Senior Special Operations Fellow). But knowing JSOU they’ve maintained their relationship with him.
dmsilev
Jeez, I go offline for just a couple of hours, and this happens. Wonder what’s in store for tomorrow.
Brachiator
@germy: Interesting that Circa is popping up now. I recall your recent post about biased news coverage coming from a Sinclair tv station news program. I didn’t realize the degree to which Circa is targeting younger people. It’s insidious how these organizations are claiming to do accurate reporting while dealing in propaganda. At least Fox News has an established reputation as right wing garbage.
rikyrah
Eugene RobinsonVerified account @Eugene_Robinson
Why, other than nepotism, does Ivanka Trump have an office in the White House?
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: As I’ve stated a couple of times: I’m the actual national security professional he claims to be.
Though I’ve never served in the British Territorial Army nor claimed to have done so. Nor did a bogus doctorate (not that my dissertation is perfect). Nor claimed a relationship with the Marshall Center I didn’t really have. Nor scammed my way into an endowed chair at Marine Corps University because my wife’s cousin endowed the chair and I failed to disclose this to Marine Corps University. I have never been fired by the FBI/DOJ for doing work on terrorism.
But other than that…
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
http://www.salon.com/2017/06/12/john-kelly-the-grownup-forget-it-homeland-security-chief-turns-out-to-be-another-trump-zealot/
Also, his opinion on marijuana legalization:
efgoldman
@Miss Bianca:
If Tom Stoppard wrote this, it would be too absurd even for him.
lamh36
@Cheryl Rofer: ugh…the country is being “lead” by bunch of idiots…smh
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Anyone who has any familiarity with eastern Europe and/or the Balkans would lol at the first point. The second is just a dumb lie.
Brachiator
@germy:
To the contrary, a lot of these people feel emboldened. Also, if you know or think that other knaves are working in an organization, you feel less worried that honest people will rat you out.
Rotting meat attracts flies.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Fawning upon generals, both from the media and the populace, goes back as far as George Washington.
Davebo
@JPL:
Give him a break, it’s his first day. Or maybe days before.
SiubhanDuinne
Jeebus FSM Gods, it never lets up with this gang, does it?
germy
@Brachiator: One thing I noticed when I saw the first (of many) circa reports on my local sinclair station was how young the correspondents were. They looked like they were barely out of college.
Their goal really is to capture the young generation because they know the fox news watching viewers are aging out.
Another Scott
@Iowa Old Lady: Donnie thinks he was elected Tyrant. He thinks the rules and the laws and the norms don’t apply to him. He thinks he can do what he wants and the rest of us just have to lump it.
He’s in for a rude awakening…
Cheers,
Scott.
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not for nothing, Eisenhower was considered an excellent, skillful politician while he was still a commander, long before he ran for president.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: I’m not arguing about the deaths with you. One is too many. I just didn’t know all the details. If they’re because ICE agents killed the detainees you have one problem. If, like the case I read about earlier today where the detainee died because ICE had left him at a local jail they had a custodial agreement with and the local jail screwed up his medical care (withheld medication), then you have a different problem. Neither of these types of problems are good things. Nor do they reflect well on him.
That said, it feels like you’re pushing for me to make a statement on the crackdown on undocumented immigrants and those who have overstayed their permitted time in the US. Aside from the post I wrote about this during the campaign explaining why such crackdowns were silly because of how the law is written and what Congress appropriates funds for in regards to dealing with, it is also socially corrosive. I also, if you recall, wrote a post about how the Southern border as a line on the map is in one place and as a demarcation of patterns of settlement is in another, which is why this type of crackdown and the attempt to bill the wall is just silly. As for the travel ban, it is self destructive as it gives ISIL what they want. Which I’ve also written about.
Also, I do believe the Israelis directly targeted and sank the USS Liberty and the US government covered this up. I also don’t know what I can actually do about this.
Anne Laurie
@germy:
People who decide it’s okay to fake credentials have a particular mindset. Once they get away with the fakery — or it looks, for a while, like they will — the mindset further “reasons” that yay! They’re GIFTED! They can (remember the Dubya drone?) make their own reality…
It’s like the woman who wants to know, if she lets her dogs chew up her shoes, why can’t the dog understand that this one pair of expensive Choos or Louboutins is special & not-to-be-chewed? There are levels of reasoning which dogs, and fantasists, are just not capable of achieving.
Adam L Silverman
Ooopsie:
RobNYNY
@Villago Delenda Est:
Prosecutors call it “consciousness of guilt.”
germy
@Another Scott:
https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2017/07/27/foxs-jesse-watters-lot-people-wish-president-trump-was-dictator/217420
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: FP:
He’s violating his oath:
Something like 90% of Trump’s appointees should be in the middle of impeachment hearings now – in a just world…
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good god. Fox has actually gotten worse since Ailes left
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Yep. One of my dad’s first cousins was on the path to a star. Airborne and Ranger. BSM with V and OLC in Vietnam. He ticked off all the right boxes until as a LTC on the COL list, he was offered a gig in Korea. He was getting divorced at the time and wanted custody. He declined the job and retired as an LTC. The next day, he went back to his same office as a civilian DoD employee. He was FA when it mattered, and switched to AG – his thing was computers. He would have stalled at one star.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: GMTA. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: I am just frustrated at the direction the country is taking, nothing personal against you.
dogwood
@Kay:
Watched a cable news clip the other day where Josh Ernest and David Frum talked about the disfunction in the WH. They were clear that while all staff serve at the pleasure of the POTUS and work to advance the administration’s agenda, the deepest sense of loyalty tends to exist among the staff. These are stressful demanding jobs, and you can only keep going if there is trust and respect among the staff. There is no chance that that will ever happen in Trumpworld no matter what Kelly does. These people don’t trust one another and never will. And maybe that’s what will save us in the end. W was a bad president, but his WH was not full of incompetent people despite democrats selling that line. It was organized effectively and functioned without chaos. We have to hope that the Trumpers never figure out how to set things up right because if, that ever happens, the damage will be beyond anything that George W ever created.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Do you think we aren’t?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Watters should go to Zimbabwe or Russia and see what he thinks of a dictator being in charge.
Better yet, let’s use Obama’s time machine and send him back in time to a 1930s Soviet Union gulag.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: We all are. I guess I am more irritable because of all the Kelly fluffing in the media.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: I understand. I empathize, sympathize, and agree.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman: I’ve worked with a handful of people who turned out to be frauds. No matter how flashy their credentials appear to be, their actual work is crap. And they are lazy. They never want to do the work. One guy had somehow intimidated a female colleague into letting him submit her work as his own. He promised he would take care of her if he got a big promotion. Ultimately, he got caught out.
sukabi
@Adam L Silverman: there was something I saw last week or shortly after Jr. made his statement that Sr. had a hand in “crafting” it….but it was more of an “oh yeah, Drumpf revised the statement. No biggy”
sukabi
@Cheryl Rofer: so between Tillerson not having staff and not knowing what he’s doing and not being in the loop with the WH do we even have a State Department any more?
sukabi
@TenguPhule: Madman with Twitter.
Lurking Canadian
@Mnemosyne: I nominate Justin Trudeau to play Fortinbras.
Kay
@dogwood:
That makes sense to me. I still marvel at how people are fooled by Trump. It all just seems so fake to me. I find that “serious, Presidential” face he once in a while remembers to slap on almost comical.
I try not to think about it because I can get spooked at how really vacant he is- how he doesn’t seem to have any ordinary human qualities. I was listening to Stephen Colbert the other night and he imitates Trump’s speech in the same way I hear it. He gets the bragging quality that I can’t describe. It doesn’t change enough for me, his tone. It’s the same sound no matter what he’s saying. It’s disturbing. It’s more like a car horn than a person speaking- just loud and alarming.
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: yeah I think the DMV messed it up…. Should have been FART WAR
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: Unfortunately there is a cottage industry of people claiming bogus PhDs – from dodgy like Gorka’s all the way to completely fabricated/no documentation to sustain the claim – or bogus experience/capability being able to worm their way in with the military as consultants, advisors, etc. Some start as contractors and the companies there with don’t do proper vetting. Some get in other ways, such as being well connected. They are very hard to dig out. I’ve come across a bunch. I’ve only ever been able to dig out one of them. There just seems to be a blind spot among senior uniformed personnel.
Xenos
@efgoldman: Re. Tillerson, the last ambassador to Luxembourg established a program for the embassy to celebrate international AIDs day and to commemorate gay marriage with a special ceremony and party. This has something to do with homosexuality being decriminalised more than 200 years ago, and the PM being the first gay-married head of state.
This spring that event took place as usual, there being no ambassador to stop it. I don’t even think Tillerson noticed.
Cheryl Rofer
@Another Scott: Yes. Tillerson has barricaded himself behind two or three staffers and has pretty much kept the rest of State at arm’s length. Now it looks like he is staffing up from those two or three to make the Policy Planning Office his private purview. I really can’t figure out what he’s thinking. Dan Drezner has done several columns in which he can’t figure it out either. I would like to hear more from people who had experience with him as an Exxon executive. Of course there are differences; he can be a secretive autocrat at Exxon, but the government is supposed to work differently.
@sukabi: Yes, there is still a State Department. Most of the people who do the work are still in place. But the layer of Senate-approved managers that connects them to the Secretary and President is absent, and it appears that the Secretary and President want it that way.
Calouste
@rikyrah: Kushner is going to be easy to turn. You arrest him on Friday before a long weekend and make sure the bail can’t come through until Tuesday. He’ll be so scared of jail that he’ll sign like a canary on Sunday.
Barbara
Comments at Washington Post are a combination of disgust and despair:
The level of contempt for the rest of us, and the elevation of their own interests above anything else is just surreal.
NotMax
@Xenos
Tillerson probably thinks Luxembourg is one of those stinky cheeses everyone passes by at the executive dining room buffet.
sukabi
@Cheryl Rofer: Jared might be better off sharing a room with Assange. No extradition.
Adria McDowell
@Omnes Omnibus: Preach it!
burnspbesq
@sukabi:
I believe there is an Amendment that says something about cruel and unusual punishment, although it’s far from clear whether that would be crueler and more unusual for Assange or Kushner.
sukabi
@burnspbesq: cruel and unusual? Don’t care. the assholes deserve each other.
Kay
This is wonderful, it’s the right thing to do and ballot initiatives are a lot of fun to work on. They can win this if they work hard enough. Something like 10% of Florida voters are disenfranchised because of a criminal record. They could flip the state if they win:
sigyn
@Anne Laurie: Oooh, I would love to see that post!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Kay:
That’s awesome! Voting is a right not a privilege. No citizen should be deprived of their right to vote.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@TenguPhule: Yeah. I’m a cynical bastard, but that article opened up whole new horizons of dread.
david spikes
@efgoldman: And the one time he actually fought a battle(Kasserine Pass) it was a disaster.
Booger
@Adam L Silverman: Ask him what color is the boathouse at Hereford?
Adam L Silverman
@Booger: I’ve only ever had one encounter with him. It was by email. And it was quite enough to last a lifetime.
WaterGirl
@Kay: How do we know the leaker is Jared?
Seth Owen
@Omnes Omnibus: I topped out as a MAJ, myself. Had trouble with weight control. Still did more than 20. I did have a friend who got a star though — and she really was good, so it happens. She retired as a MG.