Candles instead of torches. This is Charlottesville. pic.twitter.com/f31QHpXlMi
— Nora Neus (@noraneus) August 17, 2017
I've never seen the UVA lawn like this. And this is only a quarter of the people here. Hundreds more marching. pic.twitter.com/t0ChLe1BuC
— Nora Neus (@noraneus) August 17, 2017
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What’s on the agenda, as we gird ourselves for the new day?
This 83 year-old artist has painted hundreds of a recurring symbol: The Confederate flag https://t.co/iQErh2kB7D pic.twitter.com/SZXbenCJDZ
— CBS Evening News (@CBSEveningNews) August 16, 2017
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And, from the man responsible for the Crazification Factor…
Newt Gingrich: Mayors who take down Confederate statues are just pandering to a black audience https://t.co/bui8KsTbQ4
— Media Matters (@mmfa) August 15, 2017
Newt, people's feelings change. One day everybody loves a statue, then suddenly they just want a new younger statue that doesn't have cancer https://t.co/eXPIxZVlJK
— John Rogers (@jonrog1) August 15, 2017
OzarkHillbilly
Your Mama named you wrong Newt. She should have named you “Buzzard.”
NorthLeft12
Newt would never pander to a black audience. He is too busy pandering to the ruling class for that.
Chet
That’s what a peaceful demonstration looks like, Mr. President. But I dunno, maybe they didn’t have a permit.
Chet
Thinking about a pet-loving friend today. Her cat had been sick and getting worse, and she decided to let him die at home. This week her brother died unexpectedly, and she had to travel from New York to Indiana for his funeral. Which meant she had to put the cat down after all. She’s devastated.
satby
@Chet: that’s terrible. Two blows instead of one.
Montanareddog
I hope the marchers will not chant “Nazis will not replace us” because Foghorn Oramgehorn will then assure us that that is equivalently hateful
satby
Thanks to Elizabelle who reposted this last night. For the morning crew who may have missed the news: Immantenize’s wife Julie passed away Tuesday, on her 50th birthday, with her family by her side. Deepest condolences to Imm, their son, and family. Too young, too soon.
Baud
WaPo reports that dog bites man.
washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-lack-of-discipline-leaves-new-chief-of-staff-frustrated-and-disma…
Lapassionara
@satby: I have heard so much bad news like this recently. Words fail.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby:
satby
@Baud: not good enough Kelly. You agreed to work for the scumbag, everyone has known he was an unfit lying bastard from day 1, so don’t try now to act like it’s all so surprising that he’s an unfit, erratic, lying bastard.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: true words.
I believe their son was only told last week how bad it was, after the confirmation that palliative care was about the only option left. Just heartbreaking for that family.
satby
And there was a bright spot of news I caught hours after she commented: rikyrah’s sister was able to phone her and speak to her. She’s been improving. So I hope this is an even better morning for rikyrah.
OzarkHillbilly
I forgot to mention yestermorn, about what the best damn Miss Kitty in the whole damn world did Monday night (the cat my wife loves to bitch at and about because the animal really does complain a lot):
I’m sitting on the couch kinda half snoozing as I do after dinner, when my wife wakes me and says there is a “garden snake” in the bedroom and the damn cat won’t stay away from it. I’m thinking “garter snake”, right? So I get up and walk into the bedroom and what do I find but a bloodied 2 foot copperhead. Still alive (barely) but much the worse for wear.
So who’s a good kitty? That poor poor misunderstood, mistreated Miss Kitty.
Amir Khalid
@Baud:
Kelly’s success as Chief of Staff depends on President Trump’s willingness to take guidance and change himself. But Trump is pigheaded and spiteful and too lazy to change. Kelly is the President’s underling, and in no position to force Trump to grow up. Trump subjected Kelly’s predecessor Priebus to a series of public humiliations culminating in an undeserved sacking. Kelly knew all this, and he took the job anyway. For his own sake, Kelly needs to quit before he suffers the same.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: well done Miss Kitty! What a fearsome hunter!
Baud
@Amir Khalid: C’mon. There’s only been one neo-Nazi rally that has received the president’s approbation. That could happen to anyone.
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Lavocat
HOLY SHIT! John Rogers is my new hero. That is the most awesome put down I’ve ever seen on Twitter.
satby
@rikyrah: good morning and happy to hear about your sister’s improvement! ?
Baud
@Lavocat: That was awesome.
bystander
@OzarkHillbilly: There’s some Adam and Eve joke there, but working Miss Kitty into it is a challenge.
As for Trump/Kelly, Kelly will leave in disgust. Trump is a narcissist and will always do what he wants. If the Moanin’ Joe discussion about Bannon is correct, I could see Trump firing him this week.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: Let me echo Satby and say
as well.
bystander
@rikyrah: Good morning! And glad to hear of your sister’s improvement.
Zach
I get that it’s difficult for Twitter, Reddit and other social networks to stamp out white supremacy (I don’t quite get why david duke has a twitter account, though). Having them use public social networks rather than dark net or whatever also makes it easier to track by law enforcement when they break the law.
So, here’s a simple proposal: Twitter et al should do their best to quantify the revenue derived from white supremacist activity and donate all of it to the SPLC.
Kay
@Baud:
Enough with these people, though. It isn’t about them. Their “dismay” and “frustration” is not enough.
No one cares about their feelings. They really do need a godammned plan because the President of the United States is mentally unstable and a mean-spirited racist and he is going to get people killed. Come up with something! Tick tock!
He fell apart when there was a crisis. He couldn’t do President 101. All he had to do was go out and say something decent and stay out of the way of the professionals who would handle the crime- the murder by the terrorist- and he couldn’t even manage that. He made it worse, and he’s threatening to make it still worse. Stop him.
Amir Khalid
There’s going to be a second neo-Nazi rally, and a third, and many more. There’s only so much blame that even Kelly can take for failing to fix the unfixable. (or, in this case, the unwilling to be fixed.) He needs to put down the shit sandwich and walk away.
Chyron HR
@Zach:
Twitter revenue? You clearly don’t understand how e-business works in the i-world. They get paid in, like, eye clicks or something.
Kay
The best thing about the Trump Presidency is there’s the bad hire on top (Trump) and then there’s all the low quality piece of shit hires he brought on.
They should study this in business schools. How the crap at the top determines everything that comes after. It’s like they take turns – Trump sucks for a week and then one or another of the crap hires is in the spotlight, and then it’s back to Trump.
Also- can we take a real look at who makes a lot of money in this country? The meritocracy is obviously broken. The absolute worst sleazebags seem to be rewarded. Just once I want one of these Trump assholes to be NOT rich. I would find that comforting.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: I don’t know, Trump seems to be really bad at firing people; thought it was supposed to be THE ONE THING he was supposed to be good at.
Zach
@Chyron HR: That’s why I said revenue instead of profit. First google link I found says Twitter made ~$2 per timeline view in the States a few years ago. I imagine it’s even higher for white supremacists who are disproportionately targeted for doomsday financial/health scams and political ads.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: Speaking of fixed, someone should have had Fred Trump fixed.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
“Granddad, what did you do when the Nazis came back?”
“Well, son, I expressed some tepid concern and furrowed my brow about what was being said while pushing for the important goal of tax cuts for wealthy people and gutting health care for the working class.”
Kay
Because who better to lecture 17 year olds on preparing for work than a completely unqualified nepotism hire who did no work to prepare for anything. She’s telling them to enter 5 year programs in skills training but she needs no training or work experience of any kind, because she’s just better than them!
What goddamnned nerve.
Baud
@Kay: To be fair, DeVos also lacks credibility on the subject.
Amir Khalid
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Trivial problem. Trump will always find someone to do his dirty work. He can send someone to fire Kelly who was on thin ice with the Chief of Staff, thus humiliating Kelly some more.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: Yes, but the whole “You’re Fired” was what he was know to be able to do. He’s got nothing.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: He’s also good at bankrupting organizations he controls. Apparently, even morally.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: Looking at your comments in this thread and the last, you must have had your Wheaties this morning Kay. You’re bringing it today.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Does Miss Kitty do any freelance work on stink bugs?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I don’t think that was a selling point.
Kay
@Baud:
DeVos is even worse. She loves the idea of “up skilling” one of those dumb made up words which means “go and retrain for a new job because your old job disappeared”
Besides a 40 year old bachelor’s degree she has taken no additional training of any kind. Ever. She’s just better than they are! No training required! Slot her in anywhere and she can do literally any job. She says her experience comes from a volunteer stint in a Grand Rapids public school. There are probably 20 million people who meet that standard.
debbie
@rikyrah:
So glad to read your sister’s doing better. Hope the improvement continues!
debbie
@Kay:
The corner has yet to be turned. My local Fox station runs a Facebook poll during their broadcast every night. Last night, they asked whether people’s opinion of Trump had changed since his Charlottesville statements. Results: 57% said their opinion of Trump had improved, 38% said it had worsened, and the rest said their opinions hadn’t changed.
JPL
He’s tweeting. Today he’s attacking Sen. Flake and Sen. Graham.
MJS
@Amir Khalid: All in all, Kelly likes this. Given his military background, he may not like the lack of discipline, but given his tenure at DHS, he most certainly is onboard with Trump’s xenophobia.
Kay
@debbie:
Okay but what’s a “Facebook poll”? I hope we’re not relying on Facebook as some journalistic high standard. Again.
The People Of Facebook believe Obama outlawed the Pledge of Allegiance. That’s not true.
TS
@Lavocat:
Another good response
Jack Power @Official_Jack_P Aug 15
Replying to @jonrog1
What’s funny is that Newt is backdoor admitting that the Confederate statues are anti-black. *sad trombone*
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Re: Charlottesville vigil. I was at a multifaith service much like that. Not as big obviously, but every seat in the church was full and it was very good to see. There was a moment in the service where people came up to light votive candles, and that sea of candles filling the altar was also a good thing to see.
Readings and prayers from Muslim, Jewish, and Christian scripture. I was one of the volunteers providing meditative music. The Christian readings included Christ’s admonition that we don’t need to do that eye-for-an-eye stuff any more.
I was thinking during the opening invocation which included a Moslem call to prayer in Arabic, how pleasant it would be to have a Charlottesville Nazi present to see their head explode at that moment.
Seeing a crowd that size like that come together on no notice for a peaceful vigil can really go a long way to restore your faith in humanity.
rikyrah
@satby:
I am heartbroken, but the part concerning their son???
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: She kills them for us, I’ll ask if she travels.
.
.
.
.
.
Sorry, she says she gets motion sickness.
Baud
@Kay: It’s like a poll of Republicans except it’s cyber.
debbie
@Kay:
Viewers go to the station’s Facebook page and vote. I’m sure it’s good for upping the click numbers, but it does represent the station’s viewership. I would have expected that opinions might not have been changed (which is bad enough), but to see that opinions of Trump has improved surprised and disappointed me.
JMG
The Nazis (or their equivalent) their permit for a rally on Boston Common Saturday. But they;re on double secret probation. List of conditions is stringent. They can’t have weapons of course, or sticks, or even backpacks. All they can do is stand there and listen to speeches while the rest of Boston ignores/laughs at them. Also it’s gonna rain, nature’s unbeatable crowd control device.
Patricia Kayden
@satby: So sorry to hear of her passing. Condolences to Imm and his loved ones. Way too young.
Kay
@debbie:
I go into schools as a volunteer. I do “jobs” things or I do what the teacher wants me to do. It started out as “jobs” then after a while we had mission creep :)
Anyway, last year we did this discussion of “news”- what it is. They were 4th graders. I was like “is Facebook ‘news’?” (it’s a comparison- all the sources of info) and the majority opinion was “yes!”. They want to be right so they try really hard to guess what I want- I set them up- I asked it like I believe it’s news. You could weep, you really could. They have no defenses.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Is Trump’s lack of discipline a new development or is it something which we knew long before this week?
rikyrah
@satby:
Thanks satby.
I was really happy when I got to the hospital yesterday, and saw that they had moved her from the bed and had her sitting up in a chair. When I got there, she was conversing with some of her oldest friends, who had come to visit.
Baud
@Kay: There are rules on advertising during children’s TV because kids can’t distinguish reality from fiction.
@Patricia Kayden: I don’t know. I was pretty confident that he would successfully pivot this time. Oh well, better luck next week.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
It isn’t? Damn. The things I learn here.
Baud
@rikyrah: Is this sister Peanut’s mom?
rikyrah
@Chet:
That is so sad. So sorry for her.?
debbie
@Kay:
I’d say it’s getting even worse. The lunacy has only intensified. Alex Jones, that barometer of nuttiness, is insisting that it was Jews disguised as Nazis who marched on Friday night and that the helicopter was shot down by the CIA.
Patricia Kayden
@Kay: It’s so interesting that Bannon is talking about the race identity on the Left when he is literally hobnobbing with White Supremacists who are only focused on racial identity. The lack of self awareness would be amusing if he didn’t have such an important and influential position within the White House. The fact that he is still employed clearly shows that Trump is comfortable with racist ideology.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Keep bringing the truth, Kay.
rikyrah
@Kay: kapow
Patricia Kayden
@Amir Khalid: Why would Trump change? He’s a 71 year old man set in his ways. In his mind, he’s been successful so there is no need to change anything.
rikyrah
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Kay rocks. And, has been bringing the truth about Dolt45 and his spawn for quite awhile.??
rikyrah
@Baud:
No. She’s Peanut’s grandmother.
Kay
@debbie:
But that’s the thing, right? That’s one of the questions. Because none of the possibilities is mutually exclusive. Trump is a racist and uses racism to gain power seems to be what we have here.
When Bannon talks about a Nazi rally where a woman was deliberately run down by a car he puts it in political terms:
These are fucked up people. It’s not just that they lack character. They have no ethical grounding at all. This is, WE are, collateral damage in the war they want. Trump wants this. He went out of his way to pour gasoline on it. This isn’t an “error” or a “gaffe”. They’re doubling down!
Baud
@rikyrah: Gotcha. I was wondering who was taking care of Peanut.
debbie
@Kay:
I agree and I am filled with hate for them.
zhena gogolia
@satby:
Oh, I am so sorry. Thank you for telling us.
Amir Khalid
@Patricia Kayden:
One of the things behind Trump’s refusal to change is indeed his failure to recognise the need for it, which leads to his pigheaded refusal to do so and his habit of retaliating against those who try to make him change. Members of his staff like Kelly, whose success in the job depends on getting Trump to change, are thus doomed.
jonas
Mayors who take down Confederate statues are just pandering to a black audience
Never mind that putting the statues up in the first place was naked pandering to a *white* audience. But somehow that doesn’t count.
rikyrah
@Kay:
You have nailed them perfectly, and folks on our side better come to that realization. I believe that the non-White population gets it, which is why our position is so hardened against Dolt45 and his voters. We are quite clear as to whom he is. No confusion whatsoever.
Kay
@debbie:
I worry when we think of them as an unstoppable force – and that’s what polls like that are designed to do.
Bannon only sees one side. If the Trump base is energized by racism, well, it is also true that our base will be energized in opposition to it. The Dem base wasn’t really energized by Trump because no one thought he was going to win. He hasn’t met real political opposition yet.
jonas
@debbie: Local news viewership tends to be older, whiter, and more conservative. Add the self selection of an online poll to that and you get…pretty much those results. The fact that almost 40% said they like the President *less* is almost a good sign.
jonas
@Kay:
So anti-racism is the new racism, according to Bannon. Roger that.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Honestly I didn’t really get it. I didn’t even listen to Clinton’s speech about it. I sort of have no choice BUT to get it now because Trump and Bannon are telling me it’s true.
Trump and Bannon think this is politically beneficial to them. It’s ALSO what they believe but it’s not like that matters- they lie all the fucking time. It is what they believe and ALSO what their base believes, or they wouldn’t say it.
Patricia Kayden
@OzarkHillbilly: Miss Kitty did her good deed for the year.
Patricia Kayden
@Amir Khalid: Kelly knew about Trump’s pigheadedness before he assumed his current no-win position. Kelly was awful as DHS Secretary so I’m glad that he’s gone from that role at least.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: I think Bannon could be right about the electoral politics, though. You’re not supposed to gloat about it in public like Red Skull, but the dynamic he’s talking about is real, and it’s how Trump won in 2016.
The vast majority of white people in this country are deeply racist in an I’m-not-a-racist-but way, and they just don’t want to hear about it. They want to be told they’re OK. They’ll agree that racism is bad and Nazis are bad, but the barest of fig-leaf denunciations will satisfy them. They trust cops, and anything bad you say about cops offends them. They’re deeply scared of the image of rioting black people, and they find BLM demonstrations as alarming as Nazis, because it registers not as people trying to get a message through the thick heads of white people, but as agitators riling up the blacks. They don’t see what’s wrong with a both-sides comparison there. They’ll draw the straight line between the Dallas shooter and BLM that they won’t draw between Trump and the Charlottesville murderer.
We now have a situation in which white liberal Democrats are way more aware about these issues than they were just a few years ago–more than when they voted for Obama. In one sense, that’s progress. But there’s a counterreaction. I don’t think the attitude has percolated down to the mass of Americans. And historically, whenever the heat gets turned up on racial friction, the racist party wins.
I think the class-not-race insistence of the Bernie wing is also to some degree the same thing at work, and to some degree people worried about this political mechanism, and it’s hard to separate out the two.
OzarkHillbilly
@Patricia Kayden: I just saw Tom’s post from yesterday about the Dickey Medal. I think I’m going to nominate her for one.
Frankensteinbeck
@satby:
I think Kelly looked at Trump and thought ‘I’ve whipped worse losers into line before’ because of his experience in the military. But then he had absolute power over the loser. The fear he sees Trump has for him is not nearly enough.
@debbie:
I’m not super surprised by poll results. Trump always got a bump from being hideously bigoted and evil. That is who Republicans are. Our situation is polarization, not a shift in one direction. Trump is losing only a few of his voters. He’s more making them out-and-proud, while everyone else gets angry and motivated.
oldgold
George Will used a Winston Churchill crack to describe Trump.
“A bull who carries his china shop around with him.”
Boatboy_srq
@Kay: There’s a fundamental flaw in The Prosperity Gospel: the presumption that Wealth=Righteousness. There’s nothing wrong with having enough to be comfortable – even very, very comfortable – but the kind of wealth amassed by the DeVos, Koch, Walton and Murdoch clans bears scrutiny. Wealth amassed by doing The Right Thing and wealth amassed by grifting the rubes are very different things, and the PG doesn’t account for that. Catholic fixation on poverty as the truly blessed conditon is clearly misplaced, but the converse is far more toxic.
MomSense
@satby:
I’m just heartbroken for the imms. Words fail. I hope they can all find peace and cherish their memories.
Siubinduinne also posted it last night on Cole’s jurors thread.
Boatboy_srq
@satby: [[[hug]]] to Immanentize.
Boatboy_srq
@jonas: Antiracism has been the new racism since Reagan – and young bucks dining on T-bones and welfare moms in their Cadillacs.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
So happy to hear she is improving. Wow, our jackal pack is going through an emotional rollercoaster. Love, loss, worry, grief… the whole human condition.
Spanky
@MomSense: It’s a big pack.
Same as it ever was, I guess, made sharper by the interesting times we’re living.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@debbie: Use catnip against stinkbugs. Seriously.
They were a constant problem in my car, to the point where we were wondering if there was a pile of eggs in the car from while it was sitting on the lot. We found places to put fresh catnip around in the car. Soon, no more stinkbugs in the car.
Jeffro
Thought experiment: picture what would happen (from the media, from the GOP) if Hillary Clinton had a week where
– she said that BLM protestors (1 of whom had just run over and killed a cop, while the rest marched with torches and encircled a white church, chanting “whites will not replace us!”) had “some fine people” in their march
– the head of each branch of the military reaffirmed their commitment to fighting racism and division, in an obvious rebuke to her comments
– not one but TWO councils full of CEOs up and left her due to her comments
– she started posting on Instagram about how Dem Senators X, Y, and Z were “publicity seeking”, “weak”, and “toxic”
I mean, wouldn’t the networks just put up a “Resignation/Impeachment Countdown Clock” and leave it up 24/7?
Jeffro
Also, Twitler’s trying to make the argument that if we take “beautiful” Confederate statues out of parks, a) we won’t be able to learn history and b) their beauty is irreplaceable. So much for museums and for statues of the winners?
Quinerly
This may have been posted. Apologies if it has been discussed. A great read on the history of many of the monuments, including the one in Montana. 35 new ones have been erected since 2000 in my birth state (and Poco’s favorite vacation state!)of NC. The old one in Chapel Hill was modeled after a Harvard student.
Jeffro
As one wit put it on Twitter: THERE ARE NO MONUMENTS TO HITLER IN GERMANY, EVEN THOUGH HE’S PART OF THEIR HISTORY
Jeffro
Love this from the SPLC: 10 Ways To Fight Hate (downloadable/printable pdf)
Quinerly
@Baud:
Poco wants to take a bite out of Trump’s backside. You just say the word. He’ll be your attack dog on the campaign trail. Baud/Poco2020?
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
Good morning from Poco’s tribe! His kitty advisers send soft meows!???
Quinerly
@Kay:
Excellent post. Thanks!
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
Such great news. Hang in there.?
Jeffro
One more then I gotta run to a meeting: Sorry For the Inconvenience, Sports Fans, But Black Athlete Activism is Multiplying (and right)
Frankensteinbeck
@Jeffro:
This, I think, is why the only big difference the Nazi rallies are going to make is a positive one. The Nazis were already there. Seeing them out in public praising Donald Trump shakes the ‘willful hibernation’ people so hard, a lot of them are waking up. How many? Like everything in this unprecedented situation, hard to say.
Quinerly
@Quinerly:
Oops…here’s the link: usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/22/confederate-monuments-new-orleans-charlottesville-remova…
Thaddeu
Sadly, lighting candles is a feel-good gesture, that does not meaningfully address anything.
An impactful picture would be of voter registration tables, and deep lines of citizens lined up to register.
cmorenc
@debbie:
Think about the likely demographics of the local fox station, combined with the likely demographics of people willing to respond to the station’s poll – how statistically sound do you think the poll’s screen likely was? Doubt that it comes anywhere near the neighborhood of a valid sample of the adult population in the area – but nevertheless it still might vaguely reflect the skew in who actually turns out to vote (vs the less motivated or disenfranchised).
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Jeffro: If you want to read some really bad KKK type comments look at any article regarding Kaepernick on Profootballtalk. You’d think you were at Stormfront or something.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@rikyrah: That’s so good to hear, and I imagine it was even better to see.
Gelfling 545
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: We had one here last night. Very well attended except: NOT A SINGLE GOP OFFICE HOLDER OR CANDIDATE ATTENDED.
*caps for emphasis, not shouting. Ok, maybe a little shouting.
Gelfling 545
@Boatboy_srq: “Behind every great fortune is a crime.”
Gelfling 545
@Thaddeu: Symbolic, yes, bur symbols csn be powereul else why remove the statues.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
That’s really good news, rikyrah, when they start getting patients out of bed, they’re getting them ready to go home or to a rehab center. I wish your family the best of luck going forward !!
And I said this last night / early morning to Immantenize, we all feel for his loss, and his son’s loss of Mrs M, Julie. Too soon, as so many others have said.
debbie
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
You’re long gone, but thanks. I’ll be sourcing a couple bushels!