Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

In after Baud. Damn.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

How stupid are these people?

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

So many bastards, so little time.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Late Night Rant Open Thread: Speaking of Cranky Old Grifters…

Late Night Rant Open Thread: Speaking of Cranky Old Grifters…

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Politico, of course, is rooting for Democratic injuries — but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a real problem. I give Bernie Sanders due credit: With a mere fraction of the economic advantages Donald Trump or even Jill Stein were born to, he (eventually) achieved a rewarding career that did not require more than three days’ work per week, and that doing what he loved best. Tragically, a confluence of larger forces during the 2016 election gave him a much larger platform for his talents, attracting a motley crew of fellow cranks and perennial malcontents along with the media-friendly innocents who actually believed that he offered a working alternative to our current two-party political system. If he’d only had the smarts to shut up and go back to his Senate sinecure no later than December 2016, I would not dismiss him as the least effective Presidential Change Agent since Leon Czolgosz…

… But it’s not just the outside agitators that Democratic lawmakers, operatives and activists are annoyed with: They’re tired of what they see as the Vermont senator’s hesitance to confront his own backers, either in public or through back channels.

Tensions boiled over recently when a handful of Sanders loyalists bashed freshman Sen. Kamala Harris — a rising star in the party and potential 2020 hopeful — as an establishment tool. Democrats were also rankled that other prominent Sanders allies said support for single-payer health care should be a litmus test for candidates.

In response, Democratic senators and outside groups have begun telling Sanders and friendly intermediaries that if he wants to be a leading figure for Democrats ahead of 2020’s presidential election, he needs to get his supporters in line — or at least publicly disavow their more incendiary statements…

The mutual mistrust goes beyond the establishment vs. insurgent divide that defined 2016’s presidential primary. Some Democrats from the progressive wing of the party agree that he needs to do more to rein in his supporters.

If Sanders intends to lead the party, said one Democratic operative who’s worked with him, requesting to speak anonymously like many others for fear of reprisal from Sanders backers, “you don’t get to wash your hands of all of this.”

The complaints have largely gone unheeded by Sanders’ camp. Many of the senator’s closest allies insist such frustration simply reflects the same misunderstanding of Sanders’ “political revolution” Democrats have had since he first started running for president.

“Bernie Sanders really does lead a movement, he doesn’t run an organization. And movements are different from organizations,” said Mark Longabaugh, a veteran Democratic strategist who was a senior adviser to Sanders’ campaign. “A movement operates organically and moves on its own. It can have leaders, but no one directs a movement.” …

A ‘movement’ happens when it happens! No fair picking on an old man for his incontinent habits, no matter how often you have to clean the furniture or replace the rugs!

If Granpa can’t stop taking off his Depends in public — or encouraging his cultists finger-painting with the contents — I’m gonna start hoping the investigation of his wife’s penny-ante Burlington College “financing” scheme gets serious enough to distract the old phart into an overdue retirement. Let him go spend more time at any of his three lovely homes, basking in his fat pension and a no-doubt-unending stream of worshipful acolytes…

Reader Interactions

137Comments

  2. 2.

    Mnemosyne

    to the point where it seems highly likely that his messaging consultants *created* those accounts to do just that.

    You know who else uses extensive fake media accounts to boost their preferred candidate?

    And I don’t mean Hitler.

  5. 5.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Tonight, if it isn’t a nuke attack or something similar, I am not engaging with the world. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

  7. 7.

    Amaranthine RBG

    Another attack on Sanders.

    He did more to get Clinton votes on 2016 than anyone posting here

    Tiresome.

  8. 8.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    I found out why my power is still out, some moron let a mylar balloon fly off and it hit power line.

  9. 9.

    Major Major Major Major

    I so don’t have the energy for another rehash of the primary tomorrow.

    We’re going to a big gay brunch tomorrow, and this will doubtless come up. I’m actually going to bring a Neal Stephenson doorstop with me to pull out if it does, I feel like the sheer size will enhance the visual.

  10. 10.

    Another Scott

    Just saw a clip of him on Colbert’s Friday show (where he summarized the week – full clip here). Bernie’s hair looked much thinner than usual. He said:

    Look, you know, Secretary Clinton ran against the most unpopular candidate in the history of this country, and she lost, and she was upset about it, and I understand that. But our job now is really not to go backwards. It is to go forward.

    He really is (and continues to be) a slimy character. Grrr….

    I’m looking forward to her book. Bernie should be thinking about anointing someone to succeed him if he wants to have a chance of a positive legacy in the Senate. Otherwise, I hope and expect more will see him as a bitter old crank.

    Good for Kamala in pushing back. More need to do so.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  15. 15.

    rikyrah

    Tired of MSM folks like Chris Hayes repeatedly going to Bernie. He has him on to comment on the deal Nancy Smash and Schumer did with Dolt45. Excuse me?
    Phuck Outta Here ?

  20. 20.

    Gretchen

    When it became apparent that he couldn’t win the Deomocratic nomination, he could have thrown his weight behind the winning Democratice nominee to defeat Trump. He did not do so. He continued to whine that the process was unfair. He helped Trrump win. He is culpable in the result.

  23. 23.

    Mary G

    @Mnemosyne: That’s what I’m thinking. I would love to see some of the things Russians are aiming at Sanders supporters on FB. You know they are still at it.

    I got so aggravated by idiots on Twitter that I pre-ordered both the Kindle version and the audiobook of HRC’s book, when ordinarily I’d wait for the library to get it.

  25. 25.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Another Scott: He really is (and continues to be) a slimy character. Grrr….

    he may have started out as a principled, message candidate, but like another individual I can think of, he fell in love with the applause, became the High Priest (High Sparrow) of his own cult of personality.

    @Another Scott: you left out “top-down decisions”

  27. 27.

    oldgold

    We got married in a fever, hotter than a pepper sprout.

    Bern, after New Hampshire, for most of us the fire burned out.

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Around here the power company asks that customers call an automated line to let them know about outages. I assume you’ve got something similar out there.

    Hope they get the transformer replaced/bypassed for you soon.

    And here’s hoping the power outages in Florida aren’t catastrophic, and that those remaining in Texas get repaired soon. It looks like about 2250 customers are still out around Houston.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    From Anne Laurie’s link

    At no point was this worry more apparent than after the leaders of the National Nurses Union refused last month to rule out supporting primary challenges for Senate Democrats who don’t support his Medicare-for-all health care bill. The group, one of Sanders’ closest allies, vowed to “[hold] the Democrats accountable.”

    Roseann fucking DeMoro. This Roseann fucking DeMoro

    As Washington grapples with health care policy again, the head of the 185,000-member National Nurses United is turning her attention to a seemingly unlikely advocate for a single-payer system. “The one I’m counting on the most is Trump,” RoseAnn DeMoro said,
    DeMoro, who serves as executive director of both the Oakland-based National Nurses United and the California Nurses Association, told POLITICO California on Thursday that she is “disgusted” with Democrats like House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and believes that the president-elect may actually get action
    “He’s a businessman, he has an international perspective — and his wife comes from a country where they have single payer,’’ said DeMoro, who also is an AFL-CIO national vice president and executive board member. “I think that Donald Trump is not about either party; he’s about something very different. He’s the one who can actually rise above this and do what’s right, and he knows as a businessman, it’s the most cost effective,’’ she said

    his wife comes from a country with single-payer… one of Wilmer’s biggest supporters

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    Clouds, Wilmer. Clouds.

    It’s clouds we old men are obligated to yell at, not crowds.

    And just in case, it’s onions, not grunions, that go on the belt, bubala.

  36. 36.

    Eljai

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jeez, even Richard Trumka, the President of the AFL-CIO decided to ditch Trump a week ago, saying he couldn’t work with racists. But DeMoro thinks Trump is a businessman who can do what’s right. Huh.

  37. 37.

    StringOnAStick

    I’m up monitoring my husband, who had a high fever attack of food poisoning, most likely from a veggie tray that was at work and that he snacked on heavily all day. He’s better now but exhausted and on the couch, so I’m going go be up for awhile making sure he’s OK. It was such a sudden and intense attack that food poisoning makes the most sense.

  38. 38.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Eljai: in fairness, that DeMoro dimwittery was from January, but she’s still an idiot, still one of Wilmer’s biggest boosters. I believe she was just under Nina Turner and Michael Moore at the recent Wilmerite gathering

  40. 40.

    Another Scott

    @StringOnAStick: Food poisoning is one of those horrible things. :-( Last time I had it, it seemed to be from a frozen chicken cordon bleu (that I tried to make sure was fully cooked above 165F, but apparently it wasn’t enough). It is a horrible, horrible feeling.

    Best of luck to him, and to you. Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42.

    Ruckus

    @StringOnAStick:
    I keep telling people that we aren’t meant to eat weeds, but do they listen to me, noooooo.
    I’ve had food poisoning, twice. The second time was annoying. The first time I could have sworn I was going to die. Linda Blair had nothing on me, projectile evacuation is exactly what it sounds like. And I just got the first attack cleaned up and the second one hit. That was a fun 3 days on the road for work.
    My bad, I forgot to add, best of getting better to Mr. String.

  43. 43.

    cain

    Very pleased this evening, made sushi at home and it came out pretty good. Can’t believe how many rolls I made off of a $5.50 worth of salmon.. nice!

    OK, back to bitching about Sanders.

  44. 44.

    piratedan

    I guess the hardest part I have about all of this internecine fighting on the Dem side is that all of those folks who support Sanders who have wholeheartedly bought into that fucking GOP narrative that keeps being trotted out on Clinton…

    If she is the corrupt evil wunderkind, if you accept that motherfucking framing that she really is corrupt, duplicitous and conniving. That her opponents mysteriously shuffle off this mortal coil and that she is pervasively rich beyond her means…

    then how come she’s never even been charged, much less indicted in any court of law, at the local, state or federal level of any fucking thing? Why hasn’t she moved into a dormant volcano lair by now?

    whenever I bring that up in polite conversation, all I get in return are goldfish faces…

  45. 45.

    Keith Kennedy

    You never could “rationally discuss the Sanders campaign”. You are doing the very thing you accuse me (and all Sander’s supporters) of. Let’s talk policies preferred and policies supported OK?

  48. 48.

    StringOnAStick

    @Ruckus: If he isn’t significantly better by morning then we’re seeking medical attention whether he wants to or not. He refused it tonight when he had a severe gut ache and was sweating bullets, but he got better after he evacuated and has continued to improve. I’m pretty sure it is food poisoning but he said its never felt like that before so maybe its the real flu that’s been around lately. I’m just extra jumpy because he got that CLL diagnosis recently but his bloodwork is barely out of normal range and all the genetic tests came out as the best possible markers and the hematologist said it will be many, many years until he shows symptoms and he may never do so. He’s felt fine before and after that diagnosis and this was so sudden and the worst passed so quickly that food poisoning from inadequately washed raw veggies or the onset of influenza makes sense. I’m trying to fight off my flights of worry though, he’s my whole world.

  49. 49.

    HyperSphericalCow

    Many Democrats are concerned that Sanders no longer has any control over the vast political network surrounding him after his 2016 campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, left the helm of Our Revolution in June

    Was Jeff Weaver the “Comic Book Guy”, or am I thinking of someone else?

  52. 52.

    Anne Laurie

    @StringOnAStick:

    If he isn’t significantly better by morning then we’re seeking medical attention whether he wants to or not.

    Sounds like a plan!

    If he’s like my own Spousal Unit, you can reassure him that you’ll make it clear to the intake person at Urgent Care that it’s not him worrying, it’s you getting all upset.

    (After all, one of the best parts of being married is always having a partner to shoulder the blame!)

  53. 53.

    sharl

    @HyperSphericalCow: Was Jeff Weaver the “Comic Book Guy”, or am I thinking of someone else?

    I kept coming across that tidbit during the primary, and your question inspired me to finally look it up. The answer is YES.

    His [Sander’s] is an unconventional campaign, so it was only logical that in May [2015] he picked an unconventional operative to run it—the owner of a comic book shop. A longtime Sanders friend and advisor, Jeff Weaver had worked on Sanders’ campaigns and in his Washington offices for more than two decades. But before he came on board Bernie 2016, Weaver had retired from politics to launch one of the DC-area’s biggest gaming businesses.

  55. 55.

    Anne Laurie

    @HyperSphericalCow:

    Was Jeff Weaver the “Comic Book Guy”, or am I thinking of someone else?

    Yep, that’s Jeff.

    Notice how Tad Devine, the other BS strategist, has quietly retreated back to his lobbying firm, instead of following the cultists around? Devine’s a professional; Weaver is a crank scrabbling for his last chance at The Big Ticket.

    ETA: @sharl: Beat me to it!

  56. 56.

    StringOnAStick

    @Major Major Major Major: Last year’s vaccine didn’t cover what has shown up lately, and the worst season for flu is winter and spring so the doctors will tell you to get vaccinated in the fall. I have heard of a few people around here getting the full 10 day real flu in the last 4 weeks.

    We’re supposed to leave Thursday for Europe, of course through Atlanta. There seems to be some roadblocks building for us. If its food poisoning he’ll be OK soon, if its flu then a Tamiflu of whatever its been replaced with should shorten the course of his flu but probably not shirt enough for us to go. I just pray this is just as it looks and not something bigger.

  57. 57.

    StringOnAStick

    @Amir Khalid: It came on too late to call any coworkers, and most of them ate the co-located donuts. He was praising his boss for bringing both earlier thus evening. I asked if anyone else ate the veggies and he said someone took a few but he wasn’t sure who. I guess the mystery has to resolved tomorrow since its 1:30 am here now.

  58. 58.

    Freemark

    @Major Major Major Major: If Clinton is so great, and Trump’s so awful, how come she couldn’t even beat him? All I hear from Clinton us whining. She was a crappy candidate. I don’t mean she would have been a crappy President just that she was a crappy candidate. She was terrible at selling herself and her ideas and always has been. The fact she surrounded herself with some pretty stupid people like Penn didn’t help her either. Clinton lost because she ran a bad campaign period. The only reason it was close was because Trump was a Scheisse show. Her entire advertising campaign was ‘Trump sucks’ vote for me. I liked Hillary, voted for her, and knocked on over 500 doors to try and get her elected. Doesn’t mean I’m going to just ignore how bad her campaign was and try to blame others for it. It isn’t the ‘Bernie Bros’ who are ignoring reality here.

  59. 59.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    What’s interesting is Saint Bernard Sanders has recently decided to cut and run from single payer in favor of incremental change.

    The truth is, as everybody knows, the Affordable Care Act is far from
    perfect. What we need to improve it, not destroy it. What we need to is,
    among other things in my view, lower the cost of prescription drugs, save consumers, save the government substantial sums of money. And what we need to do is provide for a public option in every state in this country. What we need to do is lower the cost – lower Medicare eligibility from 65 to 55
    and then begin the process of doing what every other major country on Earth is doing, and that is guaranteeing health care for all people and as a right through a Medicare for all single payer program.

    (link)

    Now I got a good laugh outta watching the self proclaimed revolutionary turn into a pragmatist, but unfortunately it signals he wants to run again for president and he doesn’t want to be swamped by 100s of millions of dollars in hysterical Harry and Louise ads that scare the olds about gubmint take overs.

  61. 61.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Freemark: If Saint Bernard is so great why did he lose by 3,700.000 million votes.

    He would have lost by even more, but he got bailed out be the caucus system.

  66. 66.

    Origuy

    @eclare: Mylar balloons cause power outages all the time. If they get loose and hit two power lines just right, you get arcing and the lines short out. I go off trail when orienteering and see remnants of mylar balloons all the time. For a while, vendors were attaching mylar lines to the balloon. The power companies got them to stop that.

  67. 67.

    mai naem mobile

    @StringOnAStick: pre-prepped veggies/fruits are one of the most common causes of food poisoniglng. I would get cut fruit once in a blue moon but I don’t do that after seeing that. I’ve never gotten cut veggies. I just can’t justify paying 5-10 bucks for cut veggies when it would take you a few minutes and cost a lot less $$$ to cut stuff up yourself and it’s fresher.

  68. 68.

    opiejeanne

    @Major Major Major Major: We were in Wales very briefly and were fascinated by the sounds of the language. It was just an overnight stay on the way to London from the Dublin Ferry. A pleasant side trip to a seaside resort of the Victorian age.
    We learned not to order the risotto in an Italian restaurant in Wales when the cooks are all Cuban and there’s a notation that the rice is long grain.

  70. 70.

    mai naem mobile

    I love Colbert but I think he’s a Bernista anI find that really disappointing. I just feel he’s too smart to be snooker ed by this fraudster.

  73. 73.

    Keith Kennedy

    Is single-payer, medicare for all the way we *should* be doing health care in the US? If not, what is the way we ought to be doing it? I wish people would separate out what we *wish* we could do, what we think it the best policy, from what we think is possible in the current climate. I want to know what candidates think the best policy is, and why. And I want to know what they think is possible, or what strategy or tactic can improve things as much as possible. It is frustrating having to guess about what they really believe.

  75. 75.

    Keith Kennedy

    Complaining about people bashing Kamala Harris, and in the same breath talking about Sanders as an incontinent grandpa is inconsistent isn’t it?

  76. 76.

    Amir Khalid

    @Freemark:
    Hillary did beat Trump, in the popular-vote count. At least you are aware that Trump was the worst possible candidate, unfit for the Presidency in every possible way including some unexpected ones. You’re probably also aware that Trump missed no opportunity to demonstrate his unfitness. So I don’t think Hillary lost to him on merit. I think she lost to him because he succeeded in appealing to (and inciting) the prejudices of a particular group of white voters — prejudices he himself shares. When people are inclined to vote according to their prejudices, it’s pretty much impossible to get them to vote rationally instead; even in US presidential campaigns which go on for two years, there isn’t enough time to lead that many people out of their prejudice. I doubt that campaigning in the right red states towards the end could have helped her.

    As for Bernie, it’s a good thing he didn’t become President. He would never be as inept and sleazy as Trump, but he lacks the intellectual, executive, and political/diplomatic skills that Hillary has in depth.

  77. 77.

    Aleta

    @StringOnAStick: Hope he’s OK now and sleeping. Your instinct about medical attention sounds like it might be wise, even if for nothing. (I’ve no expert knowledge though). Only to to rule out any other possibility. Rarely, but sometimes, sudden sweating and nausea, throwing up, etc can be signs that need checking (based on my father’s experience w/ heart issues).

  78. 78.

    Amir Khalid

    @Amir Khalid:

    As for Bernie, it’s a good thing he didn’t become President. He would never be as inept and sleazy as Trump, but he lacks the intellectual, executive, and political/diplomatic skills that Hillary has in depth.

    I should have mentioned that Bernie also lacks Hillary’s work ethic.

  80. 80.

    Yoda Dog

    @Freemark: Well if you fail to mention Russian influence, voter suppression or the fact that she won the popular vote by three million-plus and instead just go diving straight to HILLARY SUCKED, I think maybe your extremely cogent, reality-based argument might need just a little bit of tweaking there, guy.

  82. 82.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @eclare: Yes mylar. I conducts electricity as Origuy said. The power came back on about a hour and a half ago. Now about half of my smart lights won’t connect to the hub. So climbing a ladder at 1:30am is what I always wanted to do, fuck mylar balloons!

  84. 84.

    TS

    @Freemark: Christ on a stick – they crawl out of the woodwork – the best candidate ever and you blame her instead of the media and the lies for the defeat. You got what you deserved given the attitude. Every last democrat who didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton deserves the disgust of a nation – in fact the disgust of a world.

  85. 85.

    TS

    @eclare: Went for a week with no power after a flood. The 5000% lifting of spirit when the power returns – has to be experienced to be believed.

  90. 90.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Keith Kennedy:

    Shut the fuck up and go die in a fire. The sooner Bernie has a debilitating stroke and starts drooling on himself less while forgetting the urge to spew his nonsense in that shitmouth accent he should have lost already, the better off we’ll all be.

  92. 92.

    p.a.

    A dead thread I quickly scrolled thru, so it may already have been said, but if Bernie wants to have influence in the Dem party maybe he should, you know, BECOME A DEMOCRAT.

  93. 93.

    Kristine

    @Origuy: I hate those blasted things. I walk along Lake Michigan several times a week, and almost always find a deflated Mylar balloon or two (or more) washed up on the beach, ribbons still attached. I wish those folks who released them realized that what goes up comes down as garbage.

  95. 95.

    SFAW

    @Freemark:

    It would have helped if you had actually paid attention during the campaign, tovarishch. Or maybe you did, and just are choosing to “forget” her platform that was, curiously, ignored by the media, because she wasn’t saying (for example) that Ted Cruz’s father killed JFK,

    Your BS is the same BS that Naderites spewed to absolve St. Ralph the pure of his role in Bush’s 2000 “win.”

    Come back when your surviving brain cell has another one to rub up against.

  96. 96.

    SFAW

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Last time that happened to me was a disaster! I had to rely on laptop power and cellular internet and my poor cat had no drinking fountain.

    Channeling Martin Mull, are we?

    When I woke up this afternoon
    I saw both cars were gone
    Yes, when I woke up this afternoon
    I saw both cars were gone
    I felt so low-down deep inside
    I threw my drink across the lawn

    Come on, Lucille!

  98. 98.

    randy khan

    @Freemark:

    I’m not going to relitigate the campaign here (even though I’m a Democrat and it’s what we do), but the number of things in that short paragraph that are wrong is pretty impressive.

  100. 100.

    james parente

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I know of another hazard of Mylar Baloons.
    I hav espend many years on and in the Ocaen. I have owned my own boats, I have run charter boats. While running in a 0/0 visibility situation, the Skipper alerted me to a substantial radar target, dead ahead.
    We were running dead slow, because of conditions. I could not see a thing, at a 1/4 mile distance. Capt altered course. Asked again if I had a visual. Target at 100 yds. I sitll saw nothing and heard nothing. He then informed me that taget was right on top of us. It was then that I spotted a cluster of Mylar balloons placidly drifting past us.
    Mylar baloons suck!

  101. 101.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    I love how the same Bernie that would have millions of Americans on the lawn of the White House at the snap of his fingers (remember that?) can’t possibly influence his supporters to get them to stop being divisive a-holes and concentrate their efforts on the GOP. It’s like the Republican myth of Schrodinger’s Obama: powerful demagogue coming to take their guns any moment now AND yet completely clueless and ineffective at anything he attempts.

  104. 104.

    VFX Lurker

    I honestly thought this post would give the pie filter a heavier workout than this. I blocked three posters who I’d never seen before, and saw Argle-Bargle RBG do just one post…but other than that, crickets. I expected a LOT more preachy posts from Wilmer fans on this post.

    Maybe he’s lost some of his fans.

  105. 105.

    smintheus

    The obtuse Bernie-hate will never get stale.

    I give Bernie Sanders due credit: With a mere fraction of the economic advantages Donald Trump or even Jill Stein were born to, he (eventually) achieved a rewarding career that did not require more than three days’ work per week, and that doing what he loved best.

    That of course cannot be said to apply to the besainted Hillary Clinton.

  107. 107.

    VFX Lurker

    Woo-hoo! Make that FOUR strangers sent to the pie filter!

    I’ll stick around to see what other moths get drawn to Anne-Laurie’s flame.

  109. 109.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    Obviously dead by now – but as someone who cares more about what happens next politically in this country because it affects real people, not because of identity/cult-of-personality bull, I would really appreciate it if Bernie would confront the haters in his orbit – loudly and publicly. Their self-serving crap should have no place in US liberal politics, yet it’s what we have to compete with now for the hearts and minds of tomorrow’s voters. Results for real people are what matter, and litmus tests on “means” are counterproductive.

  110. 110.

    smintheus

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: When has Clinton forced all her own haters to STFU? I see plenty of Clinton supporters sowing discord and nursing old grudges; in fact, Hillary herself can’t stop blaming others. She has a much larger effect on political discourse than any random Bernie supporters kvetching on line about her.

  112. 112.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    @Freemark:

    She was terrible at selling herself and her ideas and always has been. The fact she surrounded herself with some pretty stupid people like Penn didn’t help her either.

    WTF did Mark Penn have to do with the 2016 election?
    Penn was her 2008 chief strategist, and had little or nothing to do with last year’s run.

    While her campaign could have done better at microtargeting precincts in battleground states and being open to help and advice from local party people, she *tried* to run an issue oriented campaign with plenty of policy proposals.

    The sad fact is that for the media, Trump’s daily bullshit was preferable to policy discussions.

    Bad for America, but good for CBS, indeed.

  113. 113.

    burnspbesq

    @Keith Kennedy:

    Let’s talk policies preferred and policies supported OK?

    You sure you want to go there? Cuz your guy brings nothing to that party that isn’t half-baked, half-assed, bass-ackward, or a shibboleth masquerading as a policy.

  114. 114.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @smintheus: Pro-Clinton “haters” didn’t help hand the keys to the WH to Donald F’ing Trump last year. Or continually slag the Democratic Party while providing no alternative, helping the Republicans win all over the country.

  116. 116.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    @Amir Khalid:

    When people are inclined to vote according to their prejudices, it’s pretty much impossible to get them to vote rationally instead; even in US presidential campaigns which go on for two years, there isn’t enough time to lead that many people out of their prejudice.

    Excellent explanation.
    I am *so* stealing this .

  117. 117.

    VFX Lurker

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

    I would really appreciate it if Bernie would confront the haters in his orbit – loudly and publicly.

    I agree with you whole-heartedly…but that action requires courage, wisdom and leadership qualities that Wilmer does not currently have.

    I hope he can learn from Kamala Harris.

  118. 118.

    smintheus

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Did Sanders’ “haters” hand the WH to Trump? If so, where’s the evidence that they bear the blame? The evidence I’ve seen says a higher proportion of Sanders’ primary voters cast a ballot for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton primary supporters cast a ballot for Obama in 2008. So if anything he did a better job than she did in delivering primary supporters.

    If we were being honest, we’d admit that 2016 should never have been so close that a few of your primary opponent’s dead-enders would make a difference. Blaming a pol because some of his supporters are nutty seems itself an exercise in nuttiness, particularly so when we have seen plenty of Clinton supporters in both 2008 and 2016 spewing bile against her primary opponents.

  120. 120.

    Bobby Thomson

    @smintheus:

    Did Sanders’ “haters” hand the WH to Trump? If so, where’s the evidence that they bear the blame?

    They greased the rails for literally every single one of Trump’s “Crooked Hillary” attack lines, thereby giving them credibility. If I ever saw Bernie I’m not sure I could resist the urge to kick him square in the nuts. And scene.

  123. 123.

    Citizen Alan

    @Keith Kennedy:

    My personal belief at the moment is as follows. I, like the Democrats, want everyone to have affordable healthcare. Maybe single-payer will achieve that. Or maybe more market-based solutions that are better regulated and financially supported would work better. But ultimately, I consider single-payer to be a means to that end and nothing more.

    The Berniacs on the other hand consider single-payer to be the end in itself. To them, getting everyone affordable healthcare is a secondary concern that falls behind destroying the health insurance industry because it’s an evil force for capitalism. Viewed from that perspective, it is better for the Bernie crowd for our Healthcare crisis to get worse rather than better if it increases the likelihood that eventually the proletariat will rise up against the bourgeoisie of the insurance industry.

  125. 125.

    smintheus

    @Bobby Thomson: The exact same thing could be said about the Clintons’ attacks on Obama in 2008. Did Clinton supporters just start paying attention in 2016? Because it’s been obvious to me since the ’60s that primary opponents usually attack each other during the primaries.

  126. 126.

    VFX Lurker

    @AxelFoley:

    Quite a few new Berniebros visiting us today.

    Not sure if they’re new BernieBros, or old BernieBros with new handles. I sent ’em all to the pie filter anyway.

  127. 127.

    Freemark

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I never said he was great nice use of a red herring there.. I just said Hillary ran a crappy campaign. Blaming Bernie Sanders is just deflection from how supremely crappy of a campaign it was. I think she would have made a potentially good President. Her poor campaign makes me wonder how good she have actually been though. I campaigned for her even though I thought her campaign was poorly implemented because I thought she was a decent person and she was a million times better than Trump. Recognizing she ran a terrible campaign isn’t any different than recognizing climate change, It’s just a fact.

  128. 128.

    VFX Lurker

    @Citizen Alan:

    To them, getting everyone affordable healthcare is a secondary concern that falls behind destroying the health insurance industry because it’s an evil force for capitalism.

    I first noticed that attitude from FireDogLake in 2010, when Jane Hamsher implored her readers to “kill the [ACA] bill” rather than help more Americans get access to healthcare. Destroying the insurers mattered more to her than helping uninsured people. I questioned the compassion of the far left often after that.

    I saw it in my far-left co-workers last year. They’re all about tearing down the eeeeeevil insurance companies…not too interested in universal healthcare as practiced in Switzerland, Germany and Japan.

  132. 132.

    Freemark

    @Yoda Dog: Damn people can’t read.I never said Hillary sucked. I said her campaign sucked which it undeniably did. She didn’t campaign personally enough especially towards the end. She mad a lot of assumptions of winning states she lost. and most importantly she made her campaign about how bad Trump was and not about what she wanted to do. Here in PA she ran thousands of ads about how bad Trump was for months before the election. She only ran ads about herself and her vision a couple of times shortly before the election. The majority of her campaign was vote for me the other guy sucks. While true it isn’t a great sales pitch. You can blame the Russians, Comey,Bernie, etc. all you want. They very well probably pushed Trump into the winners column but her poor campaign made it possible for them to do that.

    The problem is people here still don’t recognize that fact. A campaign is essentially a sales pitch and “We aren’t as bad as those guys over there” isn’t an inspiring sales campaign. This isn’t about Bernie. The fact that people in the Democratic Party are still worrying about a curmudgeonly septuagenarian show they haven’t learned the lesson from this campaign if they had they wouldn’t be worried about him.

  133. 133.

    Freemark

    @TS:

    the best candidate ever and you blame her instead of the media and the lies for the defeat

    Dude you certainly are smoking some good stuff. Are you sure you aren’t a Trump supporter pretending to be a Hillary supporter.

    As for coming out of the woodwork I’ve probably been here a hell of a lot longer than you using the same handle since day one. I’m sorry Clinton was a terrible campaigner. I really wish she would have been good at it. I’m also sorry people here get upset with the obvious fact that she wasn’t. Putting policy positions on a website isn’t a great way to campaign. If people keep failing to recognize that fact we may end up with Trump or Pence in the next election. Blaming Bernie is just plain stupid. Might as well blame whale farts for climate change while your at it.

    As for people talking about how she won the popular vote so what. She isn’t President is she? I am more than happy to rub that in Trump supporters faces but Christ on a cracker until the EC is fixed it doesn’t determine who is President.

  134. 134.

    msdc

    @Freemark:

    The fact she surrounded herself with some pretty stupid people like Penn didn’t help her either.

    2008 called, it wants its valid criticisms of Hillary Clinton back.

  136. 136.

    VFX Lurker

    @Freemark:

    PiePiePiePiePiePiePiePie!

    This post is the gift that keeps on giving. I’ve added three more first-time commenters to the pie filter, and it hasn’t even been 24 hours.

  137. 137.

    Keith Kennedy

    @Citizen Alan: I don’t think that’s true. The people I know, who supported Sanders, support single-payer rather than for-profit health insurance schemes, because they think it will work better. (I do). But most wouldn’t support making things worse for people short term as a tactic to force long term change.
    I’m surprised how nasty this thread is. I know it’s fun to be angry. I suppose people are seduced.

Comments are closed.