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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

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Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

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Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

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When I was faster i was always behind.

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You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Agonize - Organize / Monday Morning Open Thread: Look for the Helpers

Monday Morning Open Thread: Look for the Helpers

by Anne Laurie|  October 2, 20174:55 am| 125 Comments

This post is in: Don't Agonize - Organize, Excellent Links, Open Threads, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

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An immigrant is doing the job the US president has proved incapable of doing.https://t.co/iO1n8XlYcJ

— Al Giordano (@AlGiordano) September 30, 2017

Unlike the president, Homeland Security or the Federal Emergency Management Agency, José Andrés has no responsibility to respond to natural disasters, and yet the Washington celebrity chef has become a reliable presence in disaster zones, deploying his Chef Network to help feed thousands of displaced people.

Andrés was among the first responders in Haiti and Houston, and now he and his crew from World Central Kitchen are on the ground in Puerto Rico, improvising ways to feed countless residents who are stranded without electricity, drinking water and food in the wake of Hurricane Maria. With little ability to speak with the outside world, Andrés has used his Twitter feed to keep followers updated on his progress in the U.S. territory.

If President Trump has become a target of criticism for the administration’s response in Puerto Rico, Andrés has become a hero. The restaurateur’s social networks are overflowing with words of praise for the native Spaniard who became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2013.…

If I was .@realDonaldTrump I will stop attacking the media, with their reporting keeps everyone inform actually helping fix satellites pic.twitter.com/QmdLHR39Z9

— José Andrés (@chefjoseandres) October 1, 2017

Thank you the men and women of @fema because I know you have a plan and you are trying to deliver help as fast as you can.#PuertoRicoRelief

— José Andrés (@chefjoseandres) October 1, 2017

For those that think we do not have it in us. They are deadly wrong. Honored to be your Mayor. Here is looking at you!!! pic.twitter.com/Uoz1669PTU

— Carmen Yulín Cruz (@CarmenYulinCruz) October 2, 2017

How you can help… #TheSimpsons pic.twitter.com/QE73mTbyLK

— The Simpsons (@TheSimpsons) October 2, 2017

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Previous Post: « Sunday Night Horrowshow Open Thread: As American As A Burning Cross
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Reader Interactions

125Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2017 at 5:24 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2017 at 5:25 am

    Prayers for the victims of the shooting in Las Vegas??

  3. 3.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 5:30 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  4. 4.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 5:41 am

    In The Simpsons tweet, any guesses on why Lisa looks sad? Works g for charity is usually her thing.

  5. 5.

    raven

    October 2, 2017 at 5:47 am

    20 dead and 100 wounded.

  6. 6.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    October 2, 2017 at 5:55 am

    Sheriff explains how LVPD determined shooter wasn’t terrorist (link)

  7. 7.

    JaneSays

    October 2, 2017 at 5:56 am

    Coward was firing from a 32nd story hotel balcony (Mandalay Bay). The victims were all sitting ducks. Very similar to 1966 University of Texas tower shooting.

  8. 8.

    raven

    October 2, 2017 at 6:07 am

    @JaneSays: Charles Whitman had an semi-automatic M-14 and fired people walking on the quad. This guy had an automatic weapon and unloaded hundreds of rounds into a huge crowd. There are going to be more dead before this is over.

  9. 9.

    raven

    October 2, 2017 at 6:11 am

    Stephen Paddock Mesquite, Nevada

  10. 10.

    raven

    October 2, 2017 at 6:13 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Did you trot out your agenda before the shooting stopped?:

  11. 11.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 6:14 am

    @raven: The shooter?

  12. 12.

    HeleninEire

    October 2, 2017 at 6:14 am

    Oh holy hell. One of my friends was one of the people shot in Vegas. She is fine, she just posted that it was just a graze to her leg. She’s OK though, she’s OK.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 6:16 am

    Three Americans won Nobel prize for medicine.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 6:17 am

    @HeleninEire: Damn. Glad she is ok. That hits home.

  15. 15.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2017 at 6:20 am

    @raven:
    That the shooter?

  16. 16.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 6:23 am

    @Baud:

    Americans are spoiled by the cutting edge research that’s gets done here. In other countries these people would be national heroes.

    In America it is “like no duh.., Americans win a Nobel Prize…big deal, we win it every year…”

    I wonder how much longer America’s dominance in research will last, given the cuts to higher education, which results in fewer tenure track research positions.

  17. 17.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    October 2, 2017 at 6:26 am

    Has the Mayor of London tweeted to Dolt45 about how awful a president he is since he didn’t stop the terrahrist shooting in Vegas?

  18. 18.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 6:27 am

    @gene108: We could also see a brain drain due to Trump. I read an article recently about Canadian efforts to attract talent that we would normally get.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 6:27 am

    @Mai.naem.mobile: Good call.

  20. 20.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2017 at 6:32 am

    The bet that all weapons were obtained legally?

  21. 21.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2017 at 6:33 am

    Will the shooter be called a domestic terrorist??

  22. 22.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 6:37 am

    @rikyrah: Already saw “lone wolf” in one article. We’ll see. Just glad it’s not an Islamic terrorist because the country loses its mind when that happens.

  23. 23.

    JWR

    October 2, 2017 at 6:39 am

    Jesus! LV Sheriff: ‘In excess of 50 dead, 200 injured.’

  24. 24.

    JaneSays

    October 2, 2017 at 6:39 am

    Death toll now over 50.

    This just became the largest mass shooting in American history.

  25. 25.

    SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)

    October 2, 2017 at 6:40 am

    NPR now reporting 50+ dead in LV.

  26. 26.

    JWR

    October 2, 2017 at 6:40 am

    Also too, I just posted this on my FB page: “Phew! Older White male. Thank God it wasn’t a terrorist!”

  27. 27.

    bystander

    October 2, 2017 at 6:45 am

    @Baud: One of them was born in Kansas City. Probably Shawnee Mission and not KC, but I’ll take the reflected glory.

    Now saying 50 dead and 200 injured.

  28. 28.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 6:47 am

    @JaneSays:

    This just became the largest mass shooting in American history.

    and absolutely nothing will change. Gun ownership needs to be severely restricted…like it is in civilized countries. But, nothing will change. Nothing.
    Fucked Country.

  29. 29.

    Schlemazel

    October 2, 2017 at 6:54 am

    My nephew lives in LV, worked at Mandalay bay. Its too early to call him so I will wait.

    My usual response to this sort of insanity it to turn an NRA quote around on it. Like “Too bad there wan’t a good sniper with an automatic weapon around to stop this” But I am sick to the teeth with these things and nothing changes. Fuck the ammosexuals and their sick fetish, magurakurin is right, “fucked country”

  30. 30.

    JWR

    October 2, 2017 at 6:59 am

    @magurakurin: Yep. CBS just did an interview with, I think, a member of either the band or the crew, and they asked him what we could do about such events. After a bit of waffling, he talked about how we all have to come together, yada yada, and he of course mentioned ‘The Troops’. (???) Bunch of BS! Why not ask the obvious… about our current definition of the Second Amendment?

  31. 31.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:00 am

    @Schlemazel: I emigrated away from the United States two decades ago. My new country, Japan, basically does not allow gun ownership. There are a few skeet shooting clubs to be found, but the people who own shotguns to use them there must pass a strict licensing test and they must keep their guns on the range under control of the range. There are also some who are authorized to hunt wild animals and they are subjected to similar very strict controls. I have no Second Amendment rights. I gave them up to live here. And I haven’t missed it for a single solitary second. The United States left the point of madness in regards to gun ownership years ago. It will never change. It will only get worse and worse.

  32. 32.

    scottinnj

    October 2, 2017 at 7:00 am

    Fuck you NRA. That is all

  33. 33.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:02 am

    @JWR: pretty sure that 95% of the people at that concert are Republicans and would oppose any and all forms of gun control. It is a horrible human tragedy, but at some point you can’t escape the fact that you reap what you sow.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 7:04 am

    @magurakurin: Was it a religious concert? Why do you assume that?

    ETA: just read it was a country music concert.

  35. 35.

    Feathers

    October 2, 2017 at 7:08 am

    @Baud: it was a three day country music festival.

  36. 36.

    debbie

    October 2, 2017 at 7:10 am

    @gene108:

    She is probably sad that the recovery is going so ineptly. She does like efficiencies.

  37. 37.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 2, 2017 at 7:10 am

    @Baud: Country music. It’s as reasonable an assumption as pegging a NASCAR crowd as mostly Republican.

  38. 38.

    debbie

    October 2, 2017 at 7:11 am

    @HeleninEire:

    Glad she’s okay.

  39. 39.

    TS

    October 2, 2017 at 7:14 am

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Country music. It’s as reasonable an assumption as pegging a NASCAR crowd as mostly Republican.

    I love country music – which causes me grief with so many of my family/friends – sobeit – but as sure as climate change is real and the seas are rising – I do not vote for RW politicians – so there are probably a few folks there who aren’t republicans.

  40. 40.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 7:14 am

    @magurakurin: A pretty pointless and ugly assumption. And I’m pretty sure you pulled at least 95% of that assumption right out of your asshole.

    That said, just how much longer will the GOP allow the citizens of this country to be held as hostages of the NRA?

    I just read last week that they have inserted a provision in a bill that would prevent states and municipalities from banning silencers. All I could think was “WTF? Fuck these assholes.” I feel double that way these morning.

  41. 41.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    October 2, 2017 at 7:14 am

    @raven: no, I waited for the news conference. After the sheriff specifically said the shooter wasn’t a terrorist because he was of local origin.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 7:15 am

    @raven: TPM has it at 50 and 200.

  43. 43.

    Schlemazel

    October 2, 2017 at 7:16 am

    @magurakurin:
    I told my kids to get out in the early 2000s. I said that the US was in a downward spiral and remaining here would become increasingly more dangerous. It was not just the ammosexuals, it was the ‘thinking’ that put boy blunder in office and stood behind his response to 9/11. They didn’t listen to me and I fear they will come to regret it.

  44. 44.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 7:16 am

    The NRA continues to succeed at what they intended: to help make us hate and distrust each other and to degrade the society by making it feel like no place anywhere is safe.

  45. 45.

    Shalimar

    October 2, 2017 at 7:17 am

    @magurakurin: They’re out in force right now in the Rawstory comments, saying he owned his gun illegally so what is the point of laws at all.

  46. 46.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:18 am

    I’ll most likely never live there again, but if I heard news that the Second Amendment was to be repealed, it would not bother me a whit. In fact, I would be extremely happy to hear the news. It would make my highly improbable dream of retiring in Hawaii even more appealing. (never gonna happen, but if it did it would be nice to not have to worry about being shot)

  47. 47.

    Janelle

    October 2, 2017 at 7:19 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: WTF?

    The sheriff literally said that the shooter was not a terrorist? Or were you just being hyperbolic?

  48. 48.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:20 am

    whatever. You reap what you sow. Would you support the repeal of the Second Amendment? I would in a New York second.

  49. 49.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 7:21 am

    The real issue is will the majority of Americans, who are not gun owners, and who are sick of this shit organize as effectively as the gun lobby.

    Also, for many gun owners the NRA are a bunch of liberal squishes, which is why groups like the Gun Owners of America exist.

    Edit: For a lot of us the NRA represents an extreme position on gun ownership, but keep in mind there are folks, who think the NRA is not extreme enough.

  50. 50.

    JWR

    October 2, 2017 at 7:21 am

    Trump musta just woken up. Only one tweet, offering condolences.

  51. 51.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 7:23 am

    @TS:

    I love country music

    You and me both. That said, we are by far in the minority. Getting “Dixie Chicked” is a verb meaning “drummed out of the business for expressing excessively liberal views.”

  52. 52.

    Baud

    October 2, 2017 at 7:23 am

    @Schlemazel: I’m starting to think the real problem isn’t the ammosexuals and other wingnuts, who are a small minority. It’s with the mushy others who refuse to stand up to them because the other party has a bunch of brown people on it or some other equally pathetic reason.

  53. 53.

    debbie

    October 2, 2017 at 7:25 am

    @satby:

    My guess is that if anyone in the crowd was carrying, they were of zero help in ending the attack.

  54. 54.

    hueyplong

    October 2, 2017 at 7:25 am

    We’re at the point at which unimaginable horror is considered to be mitigated because Donald Trump was momentarily deprived of his tweeting phone.

    And we’re also at the point at which not a single one of us thinks anything will be done in response to the killings, except for maybe another country being added to the travel ban..

  55. 55.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 7:26 am

    @TS: there are lots of people who like country music who aren’t Republican (though I am not one of them, I hate country music). But, even if every single person who was killed did vote Republican, that isn’t a death penalty offense any more than DWB is. And in spite of our justified frustrations with the voters who seem to reward NRA stooge politicians, no one deserves to be gunned down. Even Republicans. We all deserve a society where we can feel safe. That has to continue to be the goal.

  56. 56.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:26 am

    @Shalimar:

    Nevada gun laws

    Machine Guns
    It is lawful to possess, purchase or sell a machine gun or silencer that is legally registered and possessed in compliance with all federal laws and regulations.

  57. 57.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 7:28 am

    @magurakurin:

    You reap what you sow

    Really? you know according to several accounts I heard on television there were families with children present at that concert. Please tell me what a kid injured or killed in last night’s madness might have sown to deserve that fate.

    Yeah, blame and hate the NRA/GOP bastards all you like and I’m with you on that 100%, but lay off making mass generalizations about the victims
    5

  58. 58.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:29 am

    @satby:

    That has to continue to be the goal.

    it’s not their goal. you reap what you sow. And innocents often pay for the sins of the many. Life is shitty and unfair…more so if you let people buy AR-15’s.

    whatever. you post all the platitudes, excuses, qualifications, arguments for and against…

    Nothing. Will. Change.

  59. 59.

    TS

    October 2, 2017 at 7:29 am

    He has no idea of language

    Warmest condolences – from any normal person would be heartfelt condolences, deepest condolences

  60. 60.

    debbie

    October 2, 2017 at 7:30 am

    @magurakurin:

    Illegal in that it is believed to have been an automatic weapon.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    October 2, 2017 at 7:31 am

    @gene108:

    The real issue is will the majority of Americans, who are not gun owners, and who are sick of this shit organize as effectively as the gun lobby.

    I lost hope on it after the first graders were slaughtered and nothing happened. That should have been the turning point but it’s actually gotten worse since then- they want to legalize silencers now.

    It’s a profound thing though, because it goes back to the basic duty of government, one of which is “public safety”. If they can’t regulate on death and serious injury then they’ve given up on one of the main reasons government exists. All they can do is respond after the fact- they’ve tied their own hands.

  62. 62.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    October 2, 2017 at 7:31 am

    @Janelle: a reporter asked if the shooting was terror related and he replied no because the shooter was a local resident.

    this shouldn’t be shocking, comey and the fbi insisted the charleston church massacre was terrorism, even though Dylann Roof said it was politically motivated. (photo)

  63. 63.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:32 am

    @prob50: It is the society that Americans have made for themselves. Again, are you in favor of repealing the Second Amendment, yes or no?

    I am.

    I challenge you to find 20 liberals or progressives who agree with that. Find me a single solitary politician of any prominence who has ever proposed it.

    you can’t.

    Nothing. Will. Change.

    because this is the society America has made and even the most liberal are only for increased regulation.

  64. 64.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:32 am

    @debbie: machine guns are legal in Nevada if registered. Maybe it was unregistered. the gun itself was most likely legal for purchase.

  65. 65.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 7:35 am

    @TS: @TS:

    Warmest condolences – from any normal person would be heartfelt condolences, deepest condolences

    That’s alright, I’m sure SHS or some other equally repugnant shill will be along later to tell us what Trump really meant.

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 7:40 am

    @debbie: It is legal to own an automatic weapon, IF you have the proper federal licenses. I know people who do and have. Unknown at this point whether this individual did.

  67. 67.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 7:41 am

    @magurakurin: deserving a safe society is not the NRA’s goal, it’s the goal of the rest of us. And that isn’t a platitude, it’s a fact as far as many Americans go.

    And I have to work as hard as anyone to remember that, because my initial reaction to any mass shooting at this point is decidedly less zen about my political opposition.

  68. 68.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 7:41 am

    @Baud:

    I think the problem is that gun owners are fanatics, who have been indoctrinated to view any reduction in the guns everywhere creed to be the same as supporting outright gun confiscation, along with the belief any Democratic politician has a secret plan to confiscate all the guns, therefore if they allow a rational discussion to occur and/or a Democrat becomes President their guns will be taken away. And like other fanatics, there isn’t a lot else that’s a top of their list of concerns.

    For the rest of us, who are not running into guns in our daily lives, because we do not own them, we do not run across people, who own them and are not seeing all the folks, who conceal carry, we do not prioritize guns very highly on our list of shit I need to be concerned about.

    We are seeing a highly organized group of fanatics impose their will on the majority of people, who do not support them.

    Getting people, who do not interact with guns to get as worked up as the fanatics and sustain that level of intensity over the long period of time it will be required to force change is something I do not foresee how to do.

    The labor movement, for example, was sustained for decades in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century because people saw how crappy their lives were on a daily basis, against very powerful entrenched interests.

    I am not sure, how we generate that level of intensity needed, for the majority of us to fight the fanatics.

  69. 69.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:43 am

    @satby:

    it’s the goal of the rest of us. And that isn’t a platitude, it’s a fact as far as many Americans go.

    It would appear then, that you have failed spectacularly.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    October 2, 2017 at 7:44 am

    Is there any position more irrational than the far Right position on guns? These are people who want whole countries barred from entry into the US based on the remote possibility of a terrorist attack but they regularly put up with mass shootings.

    You can’t do anything with it because it is insane. Those 50 people are just as dead as any victims of a terrorist attack but nothing will happen- the government response will be…nothing.

    People used to say “well, wait until one of them is a victim” then a member of Congress was shot in the head at a constituent event and nothing happened.

  71. 71.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 2, 2017 at 7:45 am

    @TS: Yeah, which is why I said “mostly”. It’s less an opinion on the music itself than an observation of the fan trends over the last couple of decades.

  72. 72.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:46 am

    @gene108:

    I am not sure, how we generate that level of intensity needed, for the majority of us to fight the fanatics.

    You won’t. Because what is needed is for all the guns to be confiscated. And as you said, nobody wants that.

  73. 73.

    Elizabelle

    October 2, 2017 at 7:46 am

    Good morning all.

    Saw the news, not surprised. This happens way too much, and it’s the same kabuki, always. Shame on Nevada for allowing sale of machine guns and silencers.

    I thought about the police and first responders, how traumatic it is for them. How futile, to be up against a machine gun/automatic weapon with a large magazine.

    The police should be in the lead against so many firearms in the hands of those who shouldn’t have them. I think one of the reasons so many people of color and other folks are getting shot is that the police are afraid of the public, which is heavily armed and sometimes crazy.

    However, a lot of the police have no moral authority, if they are turning a blind eye to the murders by police in their midst.

    A few good ones should step up, though, and say this madness needs to end.

    GOP in Congress behind its layers of taxpayer-provided security: whores. Just plain whores.

  74. 74.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:46 am

    @Kay: yes. you are completely correct.

    nothing will change.

  75. 75.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 7:48 am

    @magurakurin:

    It is the society that Americans have made for themselves. Again, are you in favor of repealing the Second Amendment, yes or no?

    Huh?? “Again”`?` You are challenging me to address something I never once have referenced here. But, OK, I’ll play. I would prefer the 2nd amendment be interpreted with common sense and severely limit gun ownership. I would like to see automatic weapons completely banned to private owners, and likewise conversion kits. I’d also like to see the gun show where these weapons and kits can be too easily obtained shut down.

    And no, I am sorry to say that I have absolutely no idea how to make this happen.

  76. 76.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 7:49 am

    @magurakurin: you know what? Fuck yourself. You live in Japan, are you still voting in elections here? Have you also been voting for saner politicians and better gun laws? More of us voted for the other person to be President, is the fact she isn’t our failure or maybe a lot of factors influenced that outcome?
    I get your frustration, but shitting on allies isn’t helpful.

  77. 77.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 7:51 am

    @magurakurin:

    I think at some point gun confiscation will take hold as an alternative. The problem is twofold. One is the political will is not there, because the fanatics vote in numbers on this issue alone. The second is gun owners will become violent, if we repeal the second amendment, with regards to surrendering their guns, so we are scared to insight right-wing terrorism here.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    October 2, 2017 at 7:53 am

    @gene108:

    It’s changed the way I think. When we have people upset at the law office, and we have a lot of upset people, they’re there because something terrible is happening, I always treat them like they’re armed and dangerous because they probably are armed and I can’t tell if they’re dangerous. I go through elaborate conversational gambits to get them outside. My whole focus is moving them out without upsetting them further.

    No one is “more free” because of this. I’m acting defensively. They’ve added this whole level of danger that barely existed before.

  79. 79.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 7:54 am

    @satby: Geez, why did’t I just say that?

  80. 80.

    hueyplong

    October 2, 2017 at 7:56 am

    If first graders, country music fans and Ronald Fucking Reagan himself as gun violence victims can’t move the needle much for our Republican fellow Americans, I’m pretty much out of suggestions. Their ability to blame the messenger/libruls has no limit. The continuation in office of a manifestly unfit person is a daily reminder even when the bullets aren’t finding mass targets.

  81. 81.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 7:57 am

    @satby:

    I sent a small fortune (for me) to Clinton. I vote for every possible thing they let me. I google the names of the Portland School Board to try and determine who is or isn’t a wingnut. I send as much money as I can to races across the country. Just the other day I called Nancy Pelosi on the 24th and asked her to do something about Puerto Rico….Merkley, Wyden and Blumenauer in Oregon and Schumer, too…

    But…
    …I told everyone two days ago. Just ban me now. I have no fucks left to give.

    repeal the 2nd Amendment…it will never be spoken, never proposed, never supported by a single person here or almost anywhere.

  82. 82.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 7:57 am

    @prob50: I am a natural redhead, we go from nice to fuck yourself in < 30 seconds if pushed.

  83. 83.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @Kay:

    I live in NJ. Gun laws here are pretty strict. I don’t run across people with guns very often.

    I guess we need an opposition to Obamacare level of activity on gun laws, not just aimed at Congress but at state office holders, and sustain it for a single long as it takes.

    But some of us are getting fatigued with constantly opposing Republican insanity now. I just don’t see how we can add one more issue to the list.

  84. 84.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @gene108:

    I think the problem is that gun owners are fanatics,

    A quibble: Not all gun owners. In fact not most gun owners. There is a sizable # who are absolutely bugnut insane, but I just read yesterday that something like 80% of gun owners want to expand checks on gun purchases to ALL gun sales including private sales. A lot of gun owners only have one for home protection. Most are like me, a couple handguns for home protection, a .22 for critter control, a hunting rifle for deer and such, a shotgun. And I don’t have a CCL. Don’t want one. Then you have the nutso whackjobs with 60 (or 200) guns of every conceivable type with a 10,000+ rounds for when the world ends.

    We are seeing a highly organized group of fanatics impose their will on the majority of people, who do not support them.

    Is entirely accurate. That CCL I mentioned above isn’t even necessary in Misery any more. I could, if I wanted to, carry a concealed weapon and it would be entirely legal here. This is insane.

  85. 85.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    October 2, 2017 at 8:01 am

    @Janelle:

    Jamelle Bouie‏ @jbouie 15m15 minutes ago

    That Las Vegas authorities have ruled out terrorism at this early stage is another example of how the idea has all but been racialized.

    44 replies 830 retweets 1,765 likes

  86. 86.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 2, 2017 at 8:01 am

    @Elizabelle:

    GOP in Congress behind its layers of taxpayer-provided security: whores. Just plain whores.

    And one of them still got shot in the ass.

  87. 87.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 8:02 am

    @prob50: does it make you feel better that you found someone you can look down on because they offended some sense of….something? 50 people murdered for the Temple of Freedom…

    …whatever.

  88. 88.

    Elizabelle

    October 2, 2017 at 8:04 am

    I wonder if we’ll ever hear how many dead bodies and victims of this one were packing, themselves.

    I am just fatigued.

  89. 89.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:04 am

    @magurakurin: you have only 1 solution and we’re all insufficiently pure if we all don’t agree? The interpretation of the Second Amendment as “moar guns for everyone everywhere, no restrictions” is recent, before Scalia (damnation be upon him) wrote Heller, stringent gun regulations in some worked ok. I’m fine with a return to those days or a complete repeal of the Second Amendment, but revising Heller is the faster way to get to some sanity, and that’s still going to be a tough slog.

  90. 90.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @Kay:

    No one is “more free” because of this. I’m acting defensively. They’ve added this whole level of danger that barely existed before.

    Yes, Years ago I very briefly had a roommate foist upon me who had guns. If you started to disagree with him he would get angry and so I started to defer to his opinions even though most of them were asinine. I finally asked him to move when he tried to give me a .22 to protect myself because he and another local gun-toter were having some sort of feud. He was a little apologetic about it so I felt safe to finally speak up – I just looked at him and said, “John, you need to take your .22 and get the hell out of here” Fortunately he did. There are way too many gun owners who are bullies – they let you know they pack to intimidate and get their way. it’s an easy way to do it and lets them avoid the need to directly threaten the other party.

  91. 91.

    gene108

    October 2, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    If most gun owners aren’t fanatics, why do they let the fanatics dictate gun laws? And run the gun lobby?

    If 80% of gun owners want something, I think they could exert some influence on the gun lobby.

  92. 92.

    Elizabelle

    October 2, 2017 at 8:07 am

    @satby: Speak of the devils.

    First Monday in October. Isn’t this the first day of the USSC term? Including Gorsuch, in that stolen USSC seat?

  93. 93.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:08 am

    @gene108: 80% of us didn’t want the ACA gutted, and look how white knuckle that fight got. The Republican politicians answer to their donors, not the people who vote for them.

  94. 94.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 2, 2017 at 8:08 am

    @satby: One of Olbermann’s pieces pointed out that the 2nd amendment says ‘keep’ not ‘own’.

  95. 95.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 2, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @gene108: The gun lobby doesn’t represent gun owners. It represents gun manufacturers.

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @gene108:

    I guess we need an opposition to Obamacare level of activity on gun laws, not just aimed at Congress but at state office holders, and sustain it for a single long as it takes.

    Sadly, the current majority of the Supreme Court has decided that the first and 2nd parts of the 2nd Amendment have no meaning at all.

  97. 97.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @satby:

    I am a natural redhead, we go from nice to fuck yourself in < 30 seconds if pushed

    Hey, I’m a red=head, too (well, actually it’s all gray now). Somewhere along the line I went from “fu in <30" out loud to just thinking it most of the time.

  98. 98.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @Elizabelle: yep. Though he’s more of a corporatist whore, so the freshest hell will be what succor he can provide to the suffering CEOs.

  99. 99.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:11 am

    @prob50: Still waiting for age to mellow me, not working so far.

  100. 100.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 8:14 am

    @satby: you need to wrap your mind around the fact that in your lifetime you simply will have to accept that if you are in the United States, you have a abnormally decent chance to be shot. That is probably also true in say Somalia or Syria. It isn’t true in say Australia or Japan.

    You can hate on me all you want. But, yes, there is only one solution. Restricting gun ownership so severely that that they are effectively banned except for a small number of reasons. Australia and Japan are fine examples. There are others. If there isn’t the will among the citizenry to do such a thing…what can we say?

    I’m done. Be safe. You live in a dangerous place. More so than you can probably realize because you haven’t lived in a place where the idea of being shot is essentially unthinkable because of its rareness.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 8:18 am

    @gene108:

    If 80% of gun owners want something, I think they could exert some influence on the gun lobby.

    You would think that but the gun lobby does not serve gun owners, it serves the manufacturers. I am not in the NRA. And no, I will not join it to try and influence it’s direction.

    Most gun owners don’t belong to the NRA — and they don’t agree with it either

    Per the Census, there are roughly 245 million adults aged 18 and over in the U.S. Multiplying the adult population by the ownership rate gives us between 73 million and 81 million adult gun owners in the U.S. And the 5 million NRA members represent about 6 or 7 percent of that total.

    Fuck the NRA.

  102. 102.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:20 am

    @magurakurin: you’re kind of an idiot. I’m 62 years old, the daughter of a homicide detective, a former EMT, a Chicagoan and have never had the privilege of the illusion that life comes with guarantees of safety at all.
    And you’re just a wraith on the internet, not worthy of bothering to hate on.

  103. 103.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:20 am

    @magurakurin: I hadn’t thought of it that way. Honestly though, I’m at a loss to see how you can conflate anything I said as trivializing the death and horror of last night. You might recall the initial post I directed at you was triggered by you implying that the concert-goers bore some responsibility for their fate because you thought “95%” of them were Republicans. and thus had to reap what they had sown.

    But anyway, I don’t look down upon you because you offended my sense of anything. I look down upon you because you are a jerk.

    So now that we’re both fairly clear about how we feel about each other I think I will try to move on.

  104. 104.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:24 am

    Ok, who the fuck are Blake and Gwen, and why are we supposed to care that IT’S OVER?

  105. 105.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 8:25 am

    @satby: and I’m not a real American anymore as you were so quick to point out..so, you know, carry on.

  106. 106.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:25 am

    @satby:

    Still waiting for age to mellow me, not working so far.

    I’m not saying that it’s necessarily a good thing to hold back.. Sometimes it’s better to cut loose than let things back up inside you. Depends on the situation.

  107. 107.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:30 am

    @satby: satby – hmmm.. our posts #102 & 103 are were remarkably similar and both posted at exactly 8:20am. Age-wise I’m 67. Is there some kind of synchronicity going on here?

    Or have I just picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue?

  108. 108.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:32 am

    @prob50: ?

  109. 109.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 8:32 am

    @satby: I don’t know and I don’t care.

  110. 110.

    Shalimar

    October 2, 2017 at 8:36 am

    @magurakurin: The shooter apparently had a criminal record, so it was illegal for him personally to own any firearms. How they know this minutes after his name was released, I have no clue.

  111. 111.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:37 am

    @magurakurin: reading comprehension fail: I never said you weren’t a real American. Never once.
    I asked if you voted and (by implication) if so if anything you voted for won, or if not is that your failure, since you castigate us for our votes not carrying the day.
    Done here, you’re just trolling now.

  112. 112.

    satby

    October 2, 2017 at 8:38 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: that was rhetorical, and a snarky way to move on.

  113. 113.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2017 at 8:42 am

    @satby: My reply was an echo of your own sarcasm.

  114. 114.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 2, 2017 at 8:42 am

    Lots of you are hating on magurakurin, but her/his first comment was “nothing will change.” And that is absolutely true. A congresswoman gets shot in the head – nothing. 20-something 1-st graders get shot and killed in school – nothing. 49 people are shot and killed in a nightclub – nothing. In Australia in 1996, 35 people were killed by a gun-toting nut. In reaction, they passed severely restrictive gun laws. In reaction to last night’s massacre, the US will do precisely nothing. I’ll bet everything I own on that proposition.

  115. 115.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 2, 2017 at 8:50 am

    @Shalimar: The article I saw said that the LVMD statement mentioned his “history” with law enforcement, but they weren’t sure if that meant a criminal record.

  116. 116.

    Another Scott

    October 2, 2017 at 8:52 am

    @gene108: It doesn’t have to be confiscation. Gun buy-backs work, but are expensive.

    If you make it worth people’s while, they’ll give up their guns. Most of them. But even getting 95% of them would still (supposedly) leave 15M of them out there.

    Incremental progress, as always, is the only path forward.

    Condolences to the survivors and their friends and families. We have to do what we can to lessen the chance of something like this – or worse – from happening again.

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  117. 117.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:52 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Sadly, I understand the “nothing will change” feeling. It probably won’t, at least in my lifetime. But the other “95%” of his/her schtick begged to be taken out to the woodshed.

  118. 118.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 8:53 am

    @Another Scott: Yes.

  119. 119.

    Jeffro

    October 2, 2017 at 8:54 am

    I know we’re going to be talking about the LV shooting all day, but…bookmark this and come back to it: Can Our Democracy Survive Tribalism?

    I missed it when it came out a couple weeks ago. Great long read.

  120. 120.

    Another Scott

    October 2, 2017 at 8:57 am

    @magurakurin: Lots of people have talked here about repealing the 2nd Amendment. I know it’s hard to keep up with all the conversations here, but you’re not the only one seeing the necessity of doing so.

    The questions are: 1) how do you do it without making the gun nuts even more insane? 2) how do you do it with the current SCOTUS? 3) how do you do it with the Constitutional requirements on changing the Constitution? 4) how do you do it with the gerrymandered state legislatures?

    It’s a hard problem and will take decades of effort – not some magical 1-off election wave.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  121. 121.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 9:04 am

    @prob50:

    America is most certainly reaping what it has sown in regards to guns. That is simply undeniable. That innocents are being slaughtered only makes it worse. Is your quibble over what the percentage of innocents actually is? Choices lead to this dark place. Choices made by Americans. Large and significant numbers of them. Choices will continue to be made that will lead to even darker places. No one “deserves” death, but our choices have consequence for ourselves and for the innocent or for those who chose otherwise. But collectively, as a society, this IS the path America has chosen. Australian society turned on a dime and changed. But American society has not. Every single one of us bears the responsibility for that lack of change regardless of our positions or voting record. This is our shame. Our embarrassment. Our sin.

  122. 122.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 9:06 am

    @Another Scott:

    but you’re not the only one seeing the necessity of doing so.

    I am happy to hear this. thank you.

  123. 123.

    prob50

    October 2, 2017 at 9:49 am

    @magurakurin:

    America is most certainly reaping what it has sown in regards to guns.

    That is just simply not what you initially said. You clearly said you believed the folks at that concert bore responsibility for their fate because you believed “95%” of them were Republicans. You said or at least implied they should/would reap what they had sown. I responded to that. Since then you have continued to hide from that assertion by putting words in other people’s mouths, perhaps to deflect being properly pillaried for making such an ugly and demonstrably inaccurate statement.

    You said it , you need to own it.

    Case closed.

  124. 124.

    magurakurin

    October 2, 2017 at 10:11 am

    @prob50: I do own it. Many…in fact probably most at that event are facing the consequences of their choices and actions. Sorry if that bothers you.

  125. 125.

    Elizabelle

    October 2, 2017 at 11:36 am

    @magurakurin:

    Hey there. Have been thinking for some time of joining you as an expat.

    Every single one of us bears the responsibility for that lack of change regardless of our positions or voting record. This is our shame. Our embarrassment. Our sin.

    I could not agree less with this overstatement. We have tried, and tried, and money always wins out over lives and the public will.

    I know I felt weary anger on today’s news. People who say “take to the voting box” — that worked out great last November.

    I think there is a great anger in America, and it’s not solely the province of the wingnuts. I wish we could make the congresswhores afraid of us. There are more of us than the NRA nutcases.

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