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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

When I was faster i was always behind.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

How stupid are these people?

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

White supremacy is terrorism.

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You are here: Home / So Do Something About It, FFS

So Do Something About It, FFS

by John Cole|  October 9, 20175:40 pm| 92 Comments

This post is in: Just Shut the Fuck Up

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Saw this at Vox and it just made me laugh:

I’m sick of her too, but I don’t live in California. If only there was a way to choose a different candidate.

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Previous Post: « Wig-Snatch 2017
Next Post: Monday Evening Open Thread: The Mad King & His Criminal Enablers »

Reader Interactions

92Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 5:42 pm

    It’s a jungle primary too, so there’s a good chance we’ll get two Dems in the general election.

  2. 2.

    debbie

    October 9, 2017 at 5:45 pm

    @Baud:

    That would be a better choice than the usual choice.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 5:46 pm

    @debbie: Right. Especially given the propensity of butthurt by losing candidates.

  4. 4.

    opiejeanne

    October 9, 2017 at 5:48 pm

    I’ve been watching Pelosi and Kamala Harris, and haven’t paid much attention to her. Has she become a bad senator?

  5. 5.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    October 9, 2017 at 5:49 pm

    This is our big problem. Too many liberals are happy to just wait for somebody to run and do shit for them. It’s why so many people were so pissed at Obama, because his election didn’t get them everything they wanted. He was supposed to change everything! To their credit, conservatives have understood this for years now. They have people who are willing to run for the shitty offices, local school boards and local political offices and town and county councils. They understand that the best (from their way of looking at things) will climb up to the state legislature, and the best of those will make the big time. For a lot of liberals, small local elections, off year elections and off-off year elections and special elections just aren’t worth worrying about. I don’t know how to change this.

  6. 6.

    Roger Moore

    October 9, 2017 at 5:50 pm

    @Baud:
    The problem with the jungle primary is the Democrats can screw themselves if they split the vote too many ways. We need one solid alternative to Feinstein, not every backbencher who thinks he’d like to be Senator. If it looks like the vote may be split too badly for Democrats Against Feinstein to settle on a single candidate, we may be forced to vote for her to avoid getting two Republicans in the runoff.

  7. 7.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm

    @opiejeanne: become? She’s always been fairly right wing on foreign policy and not that reliable on domestic.

  8. 8.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 9, 2017 at 5:53 pm

    @Roger Moore: I think that actually happened in a district up north, bunch of D’s running and only 2 R’s; ended up with the 2 R’s in the general. I hate the jungle primary.

  9. 9.

    schrodingers_cat

    October 9, 2017 at 5:54 pm

    So what does the Comrade BS have to say?

  10. 10.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 5:54 pm

    @Roger Moore: Agree with the structural problem in general. Hard to believe that Feinstein won’t be in the top two, however.

  11. 11.

    Jack the Second

    October 9, 2017 at 5:55 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): We need more fiction that doesn’t rely on savior figures and revolutionary change, but it’s hard to make books about large committees of people slowly making incremental improvements which gradually, over the course of years or decades solve complex and nuanced problems.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 5:55 pm

    @opiejeanne: No, just a Bernie competitor in 2020.

  13. 13.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 9, 2017 at 5:55 pm

    Bad confirmation votes in 2007

  14. 14.

    Chyron HR

    October 9, 2017 at 5:56 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    “White working class lives are the only thing that matter! P.S. MLK was basically my sidekick.”

  15. 15.

    Mary G

    October 9, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    Mother Jones has a great article about her – “The Lioness in Winter,” and I learned a few things I didn’t know.

    In our conversations, Feinstein fumed that the Obama administration had been too cautious in keeping vital information on this interference—which she still cannot legally disclose—under wraps. They “should have been more forward-leaning and let people know what was going on before the election,” she told me. Had the public known what she knew, Feinstein insists, it would have changed the outcome. “I deeply do believe it.” Now, the Senate Intelligence Committee she once led is in charge of investigating the Russia connection—but, she warns, with insufficient resources and focus. Only 7 Senate staffers are assigned to the Russia probe; the 2014 Benghazi investigation in the House had 46. The committee’s Republican chairman, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), has reportedly refused to sign key requests for information, such as documents from the Trump campaign.

    I have always admired her, because when one of the Board of Supervisors did his right-wing thing by shooting the mayor and one of the first gay politicians I had ever heard of, Harvey Milk, she stepped in hard and restored order, even though lots of men who had seniority over her were running around with their hair on fire. Did good, good things for women in politics in California. So, yeah, I’ll support her run unless her opponent can make a good case for replacing her.

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    October 9, 2017 at 5:58 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    A party that gets its shit together in who it puts into the primary has a huge advantage over one that doesn’t exert the same kind of control. The net effect is that it winds up rewarding parties with the kind of backroom deal maker its proponents claim to despise.

  17. 17.

    texasboyshaun

    October 9, 2017 at 5:58 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): so much THIS. Could we shout this from the mountains, or maybe hire someone to skywrite it? I’m so tired of my Dem friends voting once every 4 years and then gripe about the leadership here in Harris County and Texas. GOP voters will show up to vote for dogcatcher in a blizzard, while our purity ponies can’t be bothered to learn who’s responsible for fixing their streets or picking up the trash.

  18. 18.

    debbie

    October 9, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @Mary G:

    I remember that. She deserves more respect than she’s been getting.

  19. 19.

    Elizabelle

    October 9, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @Mary G: Thank you for that comment. It is encouraging.

    WRT Burr: aside from not moving full steam on the investigation: he is the #2 recipient of NRA funds, careerwise, in the Senate. And he never ran for president (which accounts for #1 recipient, John McCain).

  20. 20.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Agree.

  21. 21.

    Hungry Joe

    October 9, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    I’d like to see one (and only one) solid progressive running against her; he/she would have a good shot at taking the whole thing in the general. Feinstein would be a fine senator from a purple state — politics being, after all, the art of the possible. But we blue state folk need to step up and push left. Were she to be re-elected it’d be far from a tragedy, but a missed opportunity for sure.

  22. 22.

    Elizabelle

    October 9, 2017 at 6:01 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): How much might it be that Republicans always have lots of money with which to slime their opponents? You get dragged through the mud when you run for anything, unless you’re very lucky.

    ETA: Totally different standard of behavior too. It’s amazing the stuff that comes out about GOP politicians — and they ran for (and often won) national office.

    See, also, the experiences of Carlos Danger — how lucky — blanking on his last name! Huma’s soon to be -ex — and Harvey Weinstein. Shown the door, pretty damn quick.

  23. 23.

    mai naem mobile

    October 9, 2017 at 6:01 pm

    I don’t like DiFi either but does she lose any power she has by announcing she’s not running right now. She’s ranking member on Judiciary . Any possibility she’s doing this to hold onto power while they’re investigating stuff on Dolt45? She might be hanging in because she may want to be part of history if Dolt45 gets impeached. Just a slightly contrarian a view here. She may also be hanging on for her hubby’s defense contracting bidness ofcourse.

  24. 24.

    oatler.

    October 9, 2017 at 6:01 pm

    Don’t know if I’m “the left” but I do remember that old bat snarling about pot smokers.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:02 pm

    @mai naem mobile: Makes sense to me.

  26. 26.

    BC in Illinois

    October 9, 2017 at 6:02 pm

    — What do you want?
    — Incremental change through responsible policy implementation over the next four years!!
    — When do you want it?
    — Over the next four years!!

    ETA — Or, in this case, six years.

  27. 27.

    Schlemazel

    October 9, 2017 at 6:03 pm

    The problem is these ‘liberals’ would have to get off their fat asses and show up at precinct caucuses and then pound the pavement and work the phones and do all the unpleasant inglorious drudge work involved in getting their miracle baby across the finish line. It is easier by far to stay on their fat asses & whine about how the they are ignored and abused. I have busted a fuck hump for 50 years trying to get better candidates. SOmetimes I have been successful, sometimes not but I have paid the price every time. These whiney ass fuckers can’t be bothered & they are a bigger problem than the god damned GOP because they do nothing but complain and weaken the liberal effort.

  28. 28.

    ruemara

    October 9, 2017 at 6:04 pm

    Ok, you guys have convinced me. I’m running for Senator now. Just gonna strap my two kittens on my chest and run as the pro-cat candidate. Maybe a Sanders tattoo on my ass.

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    October 9, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I think you could school folks WRT strategic voting in the jungle primary. And you’ve just identified another reason DiFi might be running — as a protectant, in event you have too many Dems in there. She’s got enormous name recognition and money.

    I’d be so happy with the possibility of two Dems in the general election. It’s worth the dangers of the jungle.

    (Also for GOP areas: you can get a less crazy vs. the extremist GOP candidate in the general — that could help ameliorate the lunatics, over time. Particularly with such a base GOP base out there. FoxNation.)

  30. 30.

    Schlemazel

    October 9, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    what you said also

  31. 31.

    jc

    October 9, 2017 at 6:09 pm

    I live in SF, I was sick of her 20 years ago.

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    October 9, 2017 at 6:11 pm

    @Baud:

    It’s a jungle primary too, so there’s a good chance we’ll get two Dems in the general election.

    Open primary.

    I mentioned in another thread that some California progressives pressed for term limits and open primaries as a means to get one of their ilk elected, after years of whining about being excluded by mainstream Democrats. Despite this, they still can’t gain traction, mainly because voters don’t want them, but also because the party leaders often decide who will move to the next available spot when someone is termed out, and because money and resources are poured on preferred candidates for other open seats.

    The next big thing for progressives is various forms of proportional representation and preference voting schemes (1st choice, 2nd choice, etc). Everything except viable candidates who actually excite voters.

    DiFi may have been around too long, but she is preferable to Unnamed Fantasy Progressive Candidate Numbers One, Two and Three.

  33. 33.

    kindness

    October 9, 2017 at 6:12 pm

    I saw an article earlier at HuffPo regarding DiFi’s running again. I’m sad because California can elect better. But that article’s comments left me sadder still. All the BernieBros out there going seemed to be commenting on that article about how the Democratic Party sucks balls and it’s the DNC’s fault….and can I say something to the BernieBro’s here? OK…good. Don’t fuck this up! Yea you. You got taken by Russian trolls and ran with them helping to hurt a Democrat from being elected. Don’t do that! It’s really really bad and we end up with a lunatic like Trump. That’s on you, not on me. Now I will vote for whom ever the best progressive candidate is come the primary in 2018 wrt the Senate but if DiFi wins the primary I will vote for her in the general, even though I’m not a fan. Why? Because I’m not a fucking moron like all too many BernieBros.

  34. 34.

    Raoul

    October 9, 2017 at 6:13 pm

    I got an email from Kamala Harris asking me to chip in $3 for DiFi. I deleted it in 0.5 seconds. There are 100s and 100s of races that matter to me. Feinstein will have no problem whatsoever raising what she wants. I’ll give many multiples of $3 to Dems, but not her.

    (I get that as a fellow CA senator, Harris kinda has to do this ask. I don’t have to like it).

  35. 35.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    October 9, 2017 at 6:15 pm

    Feinstein: Trump ‘can be a good president’

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said late Tuesday that President Trump could “be a good president” and that he “can learn and change.”

    The Democratic senator’s comments reportedly “shocked” the crowd in San Francisco.

    “The question is whether he can learn and change,” Feinstein said, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. “If so, I believe he can be a good president.” (link)

    She said this on August 29, after 7 months of total disaster.

    Sad!

  36. 36.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:15 pm

    @Brachiator: The problem with the system is that it’s mostly based on a farm system, and that means that there are many opportunities for people to lose their purity.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:17 pm

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: The first and final paragraphs do not agree with each other.

  38. 38.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 9, 2017 at 6:18 pm

    @ruemara:

    Just gonna strap my two kittens on my chest

    Tittens?

    (Edit: She who posts and runs away / Will live to pun another day.)

  39. 39.

    PhoenixRising

    October 9, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    @Mary G:

    1) Let me rephrase that: DiFi grabbed for power with Harvey Milk’s blood literally on her hands, and that wasn’t wrong–someone had to be levelheaded under fire. When his killer got off with a slap on the wrist and gays rioted, she was quick to establish lawn order, so that’s offsetting, as well as off-putting.

    2) She votes like any other CA Democratic senator and is 84 years old. Why do we want to choke off the path for the next Kamala Harris to get to national recognition? Committee seniority? The Senate norms that McConnell choked the life from and then set fire to around Merrick Garland got no active response from her or anyone else with seniority. I’m starting to think seniority might be overrated.

    3) California’s absolutely chuckleheaded term limit system for all state legislators creates enormous upside possibility for public officials to earn a promotion to federal office. DiFi is 84 years old and there are plenty of good options in LA, Oakland and Sacramento County districts who could do as good a job in the US Senate…but her presence in the primary raises the costs to the point where it’s not effective for anyone who has good options to chase it.

    ETA 4) as Brachiator explains, the farm system will select someone in her 50s who can sit in that seat for 3 decades from current elected Democrats…and for those who think that gives the party too much power, try attending some gotdam boring meetings and taking over your county party. You’ll be amazed at the quality of candidates who can get endorsed when you’re doing the endorsing.

  40. 40.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 9, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    I keep wondering why we’re not hearing more from the Democrats about Trump’s idiocy and his administration’s corruption.

    On the one hand, I can understand the tactic of saying nothing while one’s enemy is shooting himself in the foot. But he is shooting all the rest of us as well.

    On the other, I would like for patriotic Americans to be calling out the breaches of the Constitution and common decency that the Republicans inflict on us every day.

    I’d like to see a concentrated and continuous campaign to highlight how the Republicans and Trump in particular are damaging the country.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: “I dare you to grab these pussies.”

  42. 42.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 9, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    @Brachiator:

    The next big thing for progressives is various forms of proportional representation and preference voting schemes (1st choice, 2nd choice, etc).

    Ah yes, the straightforward voting schemes that San Francisco and Berkeley spend thousands and thousands of dollars explaining each election, to little apparent effect.

    ETA: if we’re talking alternative voting schemes, i like “select all that are acceptable”.

  43. 43.

    dexwood

    October 9, 2017 at 6:21 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Ok, that made me chuckle. Thanks. Yes, I am 65 going on 12 at times.

  44. 44.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 9, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    @Baud:

    LOL

  45. 45.

    Roger Moore

    October 9, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    @Brachiator:

    The next big thing for progressives is various forms of proportional representation and preference voting schemes (1st choice, 2nd choice, etc). Everything except viable candidates who actually excite voters.

    I think that’s unfair. They can get candidates who actually excite voters, it’s just it’s such a small slice of the voters it isn’t enough to get elected. In some ways, I think getting rabid support from dedicated supporters ought to me more important than tepid support from a larger slice. The problem is our system doesn’t agree on that point, and we have to work within the system that exists, not the fantasy system we’d like to have.

    That said, I support moves toward a better system than first-past-the-post. Our current system sure isn’t doing a great job of things. I would support something like proportional representation. My personal hobby horse is approval voting. It combines a lot of the strengths of ranked preferential voting schemes with being simple enough to explain to anyone in a couple of sentences. You can vote for as few or as many candidates for each office as you like. Whoever gets the most votes wins.

  46. 46.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 9, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    @dexwood:

    I am too, apparently. Well, except for the “65” part.

  47. 47.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Every time Dems talk about X, someone complains they should talk about Y. I think that’s why it’s hard for them to message well.

  48. 48.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 9, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    In some ways, I think getting rabid support from dedicated supporters ought to me more important than tepid support from a larger slice. The problem is our system doesn’t agree on that point, and we have to work within the system that exists, not the fantasy system we’d like to have.

    Isn’t that what caucuses are for?

  49. 49.

    PhoenixRising

    October 9, 2017 at 6:31 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Don’t start with me.

    We just wrapped yet another mayoral election in My Fair City, to a runoff, because the purity progressives who insisted that the only clean election is a non-partisan publicly-funded campaign process, which opens the ballot to anyone who can get 400 signatures, provided an unqualified hapless BernieBro who earned the votes of 7000 equally hapless idiots who would otherwise have selected the progressive Dem.

    So now we get the sprint through tossed garbage known as the ‘run off’, in which the progressive Dem and the most obnoxious Republican spend 4 weeks attacking the character and values of the other party.

    If the jungle election’s second-place finisher had instead been the longtime Democratic Party hack who was 3rd, we would still need a runoff, but it would be a campaign about the future of the Democratic Party and whether progressive ideas really have a home with us, or we’re really the crony ponies some Santa Fe hippies like to say while holding their noses and voting Green.

    Thanks, Bernie. You inspired a generation to action. Inaction would have had better results.

  50. 50.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:32 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    My personal hobby horse is approval voting. It combines a lot of the strengths of ranked preferential voting schemes with being simple enough to explain to anyone in a couple of sentences. You can vote for as few or as many candidates for each office as you like. Whoever gets the most votes wins.

    I’ve seen this proposal for multimember bodies. Choosing a single person based on this system would give a minority control. The GOP would govern California.

  51. 51.

    tobie

    October 9, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    @Baud: I think with so many daily outrages, it’s really hard to control the conversation.

  52. 52.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 9, 2017 at 6:34 pm

    @Brachiator: @kindness: It’s amusing how frequently “the left” complains that it’s unfair for Democrats to run candidates who are… too popular. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO COMPETE WITH POLITICIANS WHO VOTERS LIKE FINE AND HAVE VOTED FOR MANY TIMES! ITS CORRUPT IS WHAT IT IS! Oy.

    There are primaries. Win one. They’re hard to win. You’ll need to work at it. That’s the fucking point.

  53. 53.

    Another Scott

    October 9, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: It’s still early – normal people lose political focus easily, and there’s the curse of “old news” to worry about when the elections actually happen.

    I hope the national Democrats are paying attention to Virginia and New Jersey this November. And I hope they build upon those successes (ohpleaseohpleaseohplease) and tweak the messages and tactics (as necessary) to run the tables in November 2018.

    I think national Democrats are acting responsibly so far. Make comments to the press when asked, but leave the GOP and the Teabaggers to twist in the wind while they try to figure out a “winning message” from the disastrous Twittler policies. And fight like hell to prevent Donnie’s minions from passing as much damaging legislation as possible.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  54. 54.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 9, 2017 at 6:38 pm

    @Baud: huh? That’s not how it works.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: How does it work then?

  56. 56.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 9, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    @Baud: Yeah, and those someones are often Democrats. If I were in charge, I would just keep pumping out the messages, damn the torpedoes.

  57. 57.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 9, 2017 at 6:42 pm

    @Baud: you pick everybody who you’d be alright with holding office. How does that lead to republican control in a state that’s 2:1 democratic?

  58. 58.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 9, 2017 at 6:42 pm

    @Another Scott: There’s something to what you say, and saying too much now can lead to internal fights. That goes along with my “on the one hand” of not interrupting the enemy as he is shooting himself in the foot. I would like to hear a chorus of “This is wrong,” perhaps from some lesser-known Democrats so that we could get to know them better.

  59. 59.

    NCSteve

    October 9, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    I’m about as far from the weeds of California politics as one can get without leaving the country, but I’ve lived here all my life and I’ve followed politics since the Milk assassination put her onto the national political map. And the one thing I’ve learned from those years of watching her is that some days you love DiFi and some days you hate DiFi. And from day to day, you never know which DiFi is going to show up.

    California can elect who it wants. If it’s shown us one thing, it’s that. And I’ve never been a fan of hers. Don’t spit at the mention of her name like I did Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller or Blanche Lincoln, but never a huge admirer of her’s, to say the least.

    But this is now and we’re in a mess. And for all the handwringing and moaning, at this rather unexpectedly precarious and unstable moment in American history, what with a depraved mentally ill and insuperably stupid narcissist in the White House, gun-fondling Republicans across the nation simultaneously apologizing for treason while working themselves into one of their periodic flag-worship outragegasms, and with the prospect of war, impeachment and indictments on the wind, there’s something to be said for institutional gravitas and national security cred.

    If they dump her, we will miss her sometime in the next two years. Miss her badly.

  60. 60.

    sharl

    October 9, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    NYT’s Jonathan Martin offered this earlier today

    A wired Calif Dem, roused from slumber, sez DiFi moved bc @kdeleon anncmt is imminent,she wanted to get out in fronthttps://t.co/ffCSFPtJpl— Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) October 9, 2017

    The person being referred to here is Democrat Kevin de Leόn, leader of the California state senate. I have no idea if there is any “there” there, so to speak, beyond DC Beltway chatter; plenty of well informed Californians here can weigh in on that far better than me. The only reason I saw it at all was its retweeting into my TL by Dave Dayen, who I follow less for his commentary on electoral politics than I do for his expertise on corporate monopolies run amok.

    Anyhoo, that’s my $0.02 worth of input…

  61. 61.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 9, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: keep wondering why we’re not hearing more from the Democrats about Trump’s idiocy and his administration’s corruption.

    very strange that the Jetset Price thing seemed to capture the public imagination, but the grifting around the hotels, and right down to the fucking secret service being billed for golf carts, doesn’t seem to get any traction.

    @Another Scott: I hope the national Democrats are paying attention to Virginia and New Jersey this November.

    I”ve been seeing a lot of worry around the tubes about complacency in VA

  62. 62.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I thought the system was that you could give multiple votes to one candidate if you wanted. Is that not so?

  63. 63.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 9, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    @Baud: in the acceptability voting scheme me and Roger mentioned you just pick between zero and whatever# candidates who are acceptable to you.

  64. 64.

    geg6

    October 9, 2017 at 6:47 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    This. Fuck them. I’ve worked for my party for forty years now. Even I don’t always get the candidate I want, but I still work my ass off for the nominee. That’s how you slog through and win. My progressive betters wouldn’t slog through anything. They are the mirror image of the Trumpsters.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    October 9, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Ok thanks. That’s different from what I was thinking about
    Then it seems like it would benefit parties with fewer schisms.

  66. 66.

    Brachiator

    October 9, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    @Roger Moore: RE: The next big thing for progressives is various forms of proportional representation and preference voting schemes (1st choice, 2nd choice, etc). Everything except viable candidates who actually excite voters.

    I think that’s unfair. They can get candidates who actually excite voters, it’s just it’s such a small slice of the voters it isn’t enough to get elected.

    Same thing. A small slice that can’t get elected don’t mean shit, especially if the system tries to accommodate you. Some progressives overestimate their general appeal, and they have spent so much time in their own little in-group, that they do not know how to appeal to a wider segment of voters.

    In some ways, I think getting rabid support from dedicated supporters ought to me more important than tepid support from a larger slice. The problem is our system doesn’t agree on that point, and we have to work within the system that exists, not the fantasy system we’d like to have.

    Bottom line is that if you can’t get elected it doesn’t matter how much that small slice loves you.

    That said, I support moves toward a better system than first-past-the-post. Our current system sure isn’t doing a great job of things. I would support something like proportional representation. My personal hobby horse is approval voting. It combines a lot of the strengths of ranked preferential voting schemes with being simple enough to explain to anyone in a couple of sentences. You can vote for as few or as many candidates for each office as you like. Whoever gets the most votes wins.

    I hate proportional representation. In practical terms, in New Zealand and other places, it results in a deadlock in which some small, otherwise irrelevant party, becomes kingmaker. In the current New Zealand election, the right wing New Zealand First Party is ending up being essential to forming a ruling coalition government.

    Also, I would never support proportional representation unless there could be some vote against candidates as a kind of “under no circumstances would I want this person.”

    I’ve seen a few progressives support proportional voting with the hopes that this would give them a shot if other candidates didn’t quite win enough votes. But I disagree with the premise behind this kind of thing, that some progressives somehow deserve a chance even if they otherwise are not wanted by a majority or even a strong plurality of the voters.

    In practical terms, I think that in the US, the better financed Tea Party and its offshoots would have ended up as the deciding kingmaker had we adopted some parliamentary or proportional voting system. Of course, what we have now is pretty damn bad.

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    October 9, 2017 at 6:50 pm

    @ruemara:

    When we were at the cat cafe last year, the sticker I bought for one of my friends was “Pro-Feminism. Pro-Contraception. Pro-Cats.” So, clearly, there’s an existing constituency you can plug into.

  68. 68.

    ruemara

    October 9, 2017 at 6:51 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m stealing that.

  69. 69.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 9, 2017 at 6:51 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s all longing for attitude, though, which grates on me. Ralph Northam is a soft-spoken head-down kind of guy. Tim Kaine is a soft-spoken head-down kind of guy. Mark Warner is a soft-spoken head-down kind of guy. McAuliffe is louder… and nobody really liked McAuliffe, and he still won. Political people on the Internet like to carp about things.

  70. 70.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 9, 2017 at 6:55 pm

    @geg6: “People are on our side and want to vote for us, if not for all the people who outnumber us and keep getting in the way.” It’s like “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded.”

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 9, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: It’s all longing for attitude, though, which grates on me.

    Yup. Purity Pony Jockey Jon Fuglesang (whom I still like, but he can be so precious about his lofty standards for pols and politics) once made a joke that Biden was Obama’s impeachment insurance because Republicans didn’t want a “real liberal”. Without repeating the list of Biden’s sins (and him, too, I still like)… it’s all about the affect

  72. 72.

    Roger Moore

    October 9, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Isn’t that what caucuses are for?

    Unfortunately, the enthusiasm with a dedicated base that helps to win caucuses doesn’t translate well into general election victories.

  73. 73.

    j

    October 9, 2017 at 6:58 pm

    Regardless of what anyone thinks of Feinstein’s policies, at 84 she’s simply too fucking old for this job.

  74. 74.

    Roger Moore

    October 9, 2017 at 7:03 pm

    @Baud:

    I’ve seen this proposal for multimember bodies. Choosing a single person based on this system would give a minority control. The GOP would govern California.

    Why? You aren’t splitting your vote between the candidates you like; you’re giving full votes to every candidate you vote for. The goal is to find the candidate who can get support from the most voters. The candidates who win are the ones who can get the broadest support from across the whole electorate, rather than passionate support from a narrow slice.

  75. 75.

    SgrAstar

    October 9, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    @sharl: Kevin deLeon vs DiFi will be a hell of a battle…which DF could well lose. Buckle seatbelts….

  76. 76.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    October 9, 2017 at 7:13 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: I hear plenty from the elected Dems I follow on Facebook – Oregon Senators Merkley and Wyden, Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, California Sen. Harris, etc. They’re not slacking in calling out Yrump and the Republicans for their destructive words and actions.

  77. 77.

    Cacti

    October 9, 2017 at 7:24 pm

    My one consistent complaint with Feinstein is that she’s overly hawkish on foreign policy.

    As for the Bernie Bros being upset about her seeking another term, put on your big boy pants, find a candidate, and make your case to the voters. Otherwise, GTFO with the entitled whining.

  78. 78.

    Shantanu Saha

    October 9, 2017 at 7:38 pm

    This is the American Left we’re talking about. A more lazy, whining bunch of would-be revolutionaries does not exist. In no other western country is there an existing Green party that does not have at least a few representatives in their legislature, but our “Green” party is only interested in posturing and spoiling center-left candidates for President.

  79. 79.

    Kathleen

    October 9, 2017 at 7:39 pm

    @ruemara: You could be a “catidate”!

  80. 80.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 9, 2017 at 7:40 pm

    a good point on the the Feinstein race and the CA run-off vote

    Stephen Wolf‏Verified account @ PoliticsWolf 8h8 hours ago
    Ironically, even if a progressive challenger loses the general election thx to top-2, they could tank GOP turnout & cost GOP key House races

    Bye, Darellicia

  81. 81.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    October 9, 2017 at 7:42 pm

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: THIS. I follow Kamalla Harris, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, Judy Chu, etc., and it seems like one (or more of them) comments publicly on pretty much every awful thing that 45 does. The Dems-Aren’t-Saying-Anything narrative definitely doesn’t match my reality. Maybe I’m just following the right people…

  82. 82.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 9, 2017 at 7:43 pm

    @Uncle Ebeneezer: like with HRC’s policies, the water is there, but the horses won’t drink. I don’t get it

  83. 83.

    Davebo

    October 9, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    @Cacti: Foreign policy as well as the surveillance state.

  84. 84.

    Roger Moore

    October 9, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    @Uncle Ebeneezer:

    The Dems-Aren’t-Saying-Anything narrative definitely doesn’t match my reality.

    If a Democrat says something in the forest and the media doesn’t report on it, does it make a sound?

  85. 85.

    agorabum

    October 9, 2017 at 9:19 pm

    @sharl: California has term limits, so it used to be two 4 year terms (recently amended to be 12 years total in the assembly or Senate). So while de Leon is the head of the CA Senate, he hasn’t actually been there that long. He’ll term out in 2018, so might take a shot at it.

    But he certainly won’t have the national security and foreign policy handle that DiFi has.

  86. 86.

    different-church-lady

    October 9, 2017 at 9:56 pm

    When is the goddamed “left” happy about anything?

  87. 87.

    sharl

    October 9, 2017 at 10:31 pm

    @different-church-lady: LOL, this kind of presumes “the left” is a monolithic political culture, but I suspect you are closer to being correct than otherwise on this, especially for our big cities, and doubly so among the young and privileged performative (in word only) leftists in politically deep blue cities on the left and right coasts.

    A significant number of young leftist activists have taken heart with Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party advances in the UK in the most recent election. They aren’t in charge in the UK, but their significant gains shocked the Conservatives and gave dispirited young lefties on both sides of the Atlantic quite a morale boost. A recent US podcast included a report from a DemSoc who had just returned from a strategy meeting with counterparts in the UK, where they traded ideas and get-out-the-vote strategies that – if it goes as planned – will lead to a door-to-door campaign in a lot of communities in the US. Much of the strategy is centered on health care reform, which is a topic relatable even for otherwise nonpolitical people. Who knows if it will work, but it’s not all just sitting-back-and-bitching by the kids.

  88. 88.

    Luc

    October 9, 2017 at 10:50 pm

    I will watch out for Michael Eisen, running as independant for this seat,thus definitely a long shot. Forgive me, but I am longing for some scientists after all this stupidity in politics.

    http://www.eisen2018.com
    https://www.nature.com/news/geneticist-launches-bid-for-us-senate-1.21381

  89. 89.

    sharl

    October 9, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    @Luc: That’s interesting; I’ll need to follow that. I rarely run across Eisen’s name of late, except maybe when something on open access publishing comes up in my internet wanderings. Assuming he hasn’t done so already, I hope he would get in touch with folks like AAAS honcho and former Congressman Rush Holt for guidance.

  90. 90.

    jonas

    October 9, 2017 at 11:22 pm

    Feinstein is generally a reliable progressive on a number of issues and an experienced pol, but she’s goddamn awful when it comes to privacy/security/foreign policy. In that way, she’s up there with my senator, Chuck Schumer. When he’s right, you love the guy, but when he (inevitably) chooses Wall Street over rational progressive priorities, it drives you bonkers. The thing is, California is a safe state for a Dem. This isn’t like RBG retiring right now, knowing she’ll only be replaced by a RWNJ who will destroy the country. Feinstein could be making room for a young rising Dem — like her junior colleague Kamala Harris — who could be a leader in building the party nationally.

  91. 91.

    moops

    October 10, 2017 at 12:39 am

    It’s time for DiFi to endorse a new Dem Senator and step aside. It’s as simple as that.

    It would work and it’s what the country needs.

  92. 92.

    moops

    October 10, 2017 at 12:58 am

    We suffer from the endless tugging on the steering wheel of government from safe-seat GOP Senators.

    She is tying up a spot and is awfully tepid. A Senator from California means something in the USA. The number of media opportunities they give her and she just squanders it, again and again. The invite her on national TV, given who she represents…then have her give a tired and distracted and passionless response….no wonder they stop asking her for her input.

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