Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Let there be snark.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Come on, man.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Tuesday Evening Open Thread: Why the Election Was Close Enough to Steal

Tuesday Evening Open Thread: Why the Election Was Close Enough to Steal

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Imagine you were an idiot, and imagine you were a Trump voter. But I repeat myself!
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Apart from [all the facepalms], what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

166Comments

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    25 years of Hillary demonization
    Voter suppression through Voter ID
    White Supremacy
    Propaganda that worked on those who wanted it to work on them.

    If there had been no Voter Suppression, the rest would not have mattered.
    The amount of votes for his ‘win’?

    2-3 times that amount was voter suppressed.

  7. 7.

    different-church-lady

    @Baud: We definitely need to stop assuming people on Twitter have anything valuable to tell us about the world.

  11. 11.

    Thoughtful David

    So, I’m guessing that AliciaLee1296 is a writer for John Oliver?
    Stupidity that dense can only be intentional, right?

  12. 12.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @A Ghost to Most:

    I don’t have to imagine it. I can just call my brother. But I don’t.

    So could I (call my brother, I mean). I wish your brother were my brother. Because then there would be fewer fucknuts on the planet.

  13. 13.

    Ian G.

    It’s times like this that I hope the next news story is about the Yellowstone supervolcano waking up. Maybe next time, nothing as stupid as Homo Repulicanus will evolve.

  14. 14.

    A Ghost to Most

    Trump’s Evangelical Fans Preach the Gospel of Greed, Not Grace
    The Christian nationalists Trump has emboldened pray in public and prey on the people in private.

    by Rev. Dr. William Barber / Oct.17.2017 / 8:58 AM ET

    President Donald Trump speaks at the Values Voter Summit in Washington, D.C., on Oct. 13.Al Drago / Pool via EPA
    God’s orders: “Go to the royal palace and deliver this Message. Say, ‘Listen to what God says, O King of Judah, you who sit on David’s throne — you and your officials and all the people who go in and out of these palace gates. This is God’s Message: Attend to matters of justice. Set things right between people. Rescue victims from their exploiters. Don’t take advantage of the homeless, the orphans, the widows. Stop the murdering!” — Jeremiah 22:1-3

    On Friday, President Donald Trump went before the annual Values Voter Summit and declared America “a country that never forgets that we are all, everyone one of us, by the very same God in heaven.” In the name of Jesus, Trump vowed to “stop cold the attacks on Judeo-Christian values.” But the Values Voter Summit, hosted by the anti-abortion, anti-gay Family Research Council, no more represents Jesus than did the church authorities who backed slavery.

    Trump invoked the name of Jesus just a day after he announced his executive order to stop the federal government’s Cost Sharing Reduction payments, which subsidize health care for lower-income families under the Affordable Care Act. Throughout the Scriptures, virtually every story told by Jesus admonishes us to see to the needs of the poor and vulnerable among us. Instead, Trump told the crowd of cheering evangelicals that he would always defend those who use religion to discriminate.


    All props to this guy

  16. 16.

    Gravenstone

    I demand proof that AliciaLee is either sterile or elected tubal legation. Shot that stupid can’t breed.

  17. 17.

    lamh36

    Been at work all day and finally catching up on the news of the day. I caught the morning bits where Trump used John Kelly’s dead son to try to defend his Obama comments yesterday…smh

    My two cents this moring…Kelly told Chump that Obama didn’t call. Chump likely asked Kelly in a rage… “well John did Obama call you…” and Kelly likely said “ well no…but…”. and that’s all Chump needed to hear.

    I fully expect Kelly to totally back up Chump in this…he’s drunk the Trump kool aid since the beginning. I already see the usual folks talking bout Kelly is staying on because he loves this country…oh plz. Anyone who paid any attention to how Kelly was at HSA…Gen John Kelly believes in DJT’s vision more than some folks are comfortable admitting.

  18. 18.

    WaterGirl

    @Mnemosyne: Wait, who are they saying is a russian bot? Kilgore Trout, which is surely named from a Kurt Vonnegut, and I assumed that tweet was snark.

  20. 20.

    Barbara

    The jokes in response are pretty funny, what with financing a campaign with Hilton Honor points and comparisons to the Danang Doubletree. I just remind myself that people tend to wrap themselves tightly around the flag and military symbols in inverse proportion to their willingness to serve. Their respect is a mile wide and an inch deep, which is how they could write something so disgusting.

  21. 21.

    Gravenstone

    @rikyrah: Five times the margin of victory in WI were estimated as likely voters who could not fulfill the expanded ID requirements to register to vote in 2016. Damn certain our state at least was stolen by Republican ratfuckery.

  22. 22.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: Saw that.

    And Raqqa is nothing more than rubble now. As is much of Marawi in the Philippines.

    A few more “victories” like that, and, well, … :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (“What ever happened to a good old fashioned siege?”)

  26. 26.

    lamh36

    I’m sorry…are we supposed to be “outraged”…

    Bish…please..nobody wants to be on a closed flight with some crazy nut singing at the top of her lungs…smh

    @thehill
    Passenger says Delta stopped her from singing anthem on plane http://hill.cm/D4NekAO

  27. 27.

    lamh36

    He’s gonna run out of news org…

    @realDonaldTrump
    So much Fake News being put in dying magazines and newspapers. Only place worse may be @NBCNews, @CBSNews, @ABC and @CNN. Fiction writers!
    4:51 PM – Oct 17, 2017

  30. 30.

    lamh36

    So Spicey was interviewed by Mueller…do we think Reince or Spicey sang like songbirds?

    My money says, when/if Mueller gets to the Crypt keeper, I mean Kellyanne…then we’ll be cooking with Crisco!

    Cause I can’t see Kellyannne being willing to take the fall for Chump w/her husband and kids on the outside

  31. 31.

    Mary G

    @Another Scott: Yeah,

    I don't know man. It's a grim victory. I don't know what we're celebrating. ISIS is no longer in Raqqa but Raqqa is also no more. https://t.co/ytUhmfXcF5— İyad el-Baghdadi (@iyad_elbaghdadi) October 17, 2017

    “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.”

    I’ve read that Obama called Kelly’s son’s wife, as is protocol. She is the closest family member.

  32. 32.

    Mnemosyne

    @WaterGirl:

    There’s an image with his Tweet that isn’t loading properly. The person who says the stupid thing that Trout is snarking about is a Russian ‘bot. Somebody in his comments figured it out.

  33. 33.

    Anne Laurie

    @lamh36:

    My two cents this moring…Kelly told Chump that Obama didn’t call. Chump likely asked Kelly in a rage… “well John did Obama call you…” and Kelly likely said “ well no…but…”. and that’s all Chump needed to hear.

    President Obama called Kelly’s son’s wife — the actual ‘next of kin’.

    I vaguely remember an earlier (pre-election?) Faux-News kerfuffle about this, where they ended up admitting that okay calling the dead soldier’s wife may have been ‘legally appropriate’, it still would’ve been more patriotic to call General Dad also/instead. Memory-holed (again, IIRC) because Kelly the Elder didn’t want to look like a publicity-hunting Real Housewife…

  35. 35.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    Adam was saying in the other thread that Obama probably conveyed his condolences to Kelly in person since Kelly was in DC at the time. So, no, Obama didn’t call, because he probably took the time to speak to Kelly in person.

    Plus Kelly and his wife were seated at Mrs. Obama’s table when the Obamas held a Gold Star Families dinner.

  36. 36.

    lamh36

    @clay: @Mary G:

    Right it as been confirmed. The point being…that Kelly likely told DJT in private that Obama didn’t call him or his wife, but DJT not knowing the protocol only heard what he wanted to hear.

    Now I’d think this would be the straw that broke the camel’s back. DJT using Kelly’s dead son to score political points. And, IMHO, by not breaking away or by being silence, he is giving silent consent to DJT using his son’s sacrifice to the nation in the way that DJT did this morning.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    Trump added: “We now actually have military distributing food — something that, really, they shouldn’t have to be doing.”

    This should be easy to verify one way or another. Is distributing food something the military does in situations like this, or not? Either way, I find myself wondering how people who are without food and water and shelter themselves are supposed to be lining up to help distribute food.

  39. 39.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    Yeah, I realized it wasn’t clear because the image wasn’t loading. It’s the commenter Alicia who says the stupid thing about the Hanoi Hilton, and that “person” is a Russian ‘bot.

  40. 40.

    khead

    @Baud:

    Heh. Funny. Took all of five minutes from my day.

    Also, those folks beat us in the last election. So, I can spare a few minutes to make them look bad in front of the rest of the decent people I know.

  41. 41.

    debbie

    @lamh36:

    I was trying to find more information about this. There’s an ABC article which says a senior official said he didn’t call, but it isn’t clear whether the official is from the Trump or Obama administration. These crap writers! ? ?

  42. 42.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Imagine you were an idiot, and imagine you were a Trump voter. But I repeat myself!

    Could see that coming from a few hundred miles off. Still, I laughed heartily.

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, too, as I was saying in the previous thread, I managed to fall and sprain my knee pretty badly this morning. We did go to urgent care and nothing’s broken, but it’s sore as hell so I’ve been doing RICE all day. Almost time for an ice pack change.

  50. 50.

    Baud

    @khead: Well, if you made them look bad, then it’s alright. When you said we are doomed, I thought that person got the best of you.

  52. 52.

    HeleninEire

    @Baud: Yeah. There is no getting through to them. It’s like that pig quote from Shaw. “I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it”

    I used to be a big politics arguer. Me and my Masters degree in government and public policy from Columbia University could argue all night. I had every single fact at my fingertips. But those fuckers didn’t care. So I saved my breath and just did the best I could on my own.

    Also, too I had a drink.

  53. 53.

    Elizabelle

    Pretty good article in the FTF NY Times: imagine this, all these folks in Mountain Home, Arkansas, with good jobs because of Obamacare who voted for Trump anyhow —

    surprise, surprise, surprise.

    I skimmed the article, but the reader comments are divine.

    NY Times: Deep in Trump Country, a Big Stake in Health Care

    Medical care is the job engine in an area that strongly backed President Trump, and the cloud over the Affordable Care Act has left residents uneasy.

    Dumbasses. They should not sublet out their thinking to Fox News and Breitbart and their churches. Sheeple, sheeple, sheeple.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    @WaterGirl: I think the military and National Guard do indeed assist in distributing food and water. They did during Katrina, didn’t they? The military takes this stuff seriously.

    And I bet a lot of them are delighted to be able to be of assistance. I think the only jackhole complaining is their moronic Commandant in Chief.

  55. 55.

    Tenar Arha

    @lamh36: *nods vigorously* When the history of this era is written, most likely John Kelly’s name will be on a lot of the documents implementing the worst policies of this Admin. (If he doesn’t realize that his name is already historical mud, he should).

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    Yep, I’ve been 20 minutes on/20 minutes off since I got back from urgent care. My next dose of ibuprofen is due in about 90 minutes.

    The cats are very annoyed that I’ve commandeered the couch, but it’s the closest spot to the kitchen and ice packs.

  59. 59.

    khead

    @HeleninEire:

    You were targeting the wrong audience. I’m not looking to get through to “them”. I’m looking to point out the bullshit of “them” to everyone else I know.

  61. 61.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @debbie:
    Trump could easily have gone, or say right now, ‘This Puerto Rico thing is making me look bad. Whatever we have, go send it so I look good.’ Instead he is actively scaling back efforts. He is expending effort and letting himself be shamed publicly to kill Puerto Ricans.

  62. 62.

    Jay C

    @Baud:

    War is hell. I defer to the people of Raqqa whether they are happy ISIS is gone given the cost.

    Well, at least the ones still able (i.e. alive) to proffer an opinion….

  64. 64.

    Elizabelle

    Have you guys noticed how few magazine covers with Trump on the cover?

    I am speaking of grocery stores/supermarkets.

    But I think the editors have realized he is pretty much poison to the media-purchasing audience. People do not want to look at his awful face.

    It’s striking, to me anyway.

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Trump could easily have gone, or say right now, ‘This Puerto Rico thing is making me look bad. Whatever we have, go send it so I look good.’ Instead he is actively scaling back efforts. He is expending effort and letting himself be shamed publicly to kill Puerto Ricans.

    A normal asshole would have sent additional aid — W did ramp up aid to Katrina in response to being publicly shamed, though it was too little, too late.

    But Trump is a full-blown toxic narcissist, one of the people who really mean it when they say things like, If you don’t stop crying, I’ll give you something to cry about!

    He is going to punish Puerto Rico because people are trying to shame him into doing more, and a narcissist’s reaction to shame is always to double down on doing the thing that people are saying he should be ashamed of doing. It’s what narcissists do.

  70. 70.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    I know the headline writer means well, but that comes across as, Wait, we need to talk about the real problem — men are being victimized, too, not just lowly women!

  71. 71.

    Elizabelle

    @germy: That’s true. Definitely the National Enquirer. And they’re lying about Hitlery too.

    And whatever celebrities might be on their deathbeds/just died …

    So, if that’s a backdoor reason for featuring Trump — he on his way out — I can put up with that.

  72. 72.

    HeleninEire

    OK so now just reading through the thread. Y’all have to stop trying to determine if Obama did the right thing. “Did he talk to Kelly?” “Did he talk to Kelly’s son’s wife?” “Kelly was seated at Michelle’s table..” Stop it. President Barack Obama did the right thing. As he always did (does).

  74. 74.

    germy

    @Elizabelle:

    And whatever celebrities might be on their deathbeds

    Except those celebrities are usually healthy and fine. If the Enquirer conceives a grudge against a celebrity, then the “deathbed” watch begins.

    They have something against Cher lately… they’re really trying to kill her off with all the “death’s door” coverage. And of course Hillary has been suffering from some secret ailment for twenty five years.

  75. 75.

    Elizabelle

    @HeleninEire: Good point, Ms. Helen.

    Everything Barack Obama — or Bill Clinton — did is filtered through the crazy ass rightwing filter. Lie, lie, lie. We report — you decide — and then we run the correction about 3 days later, once conventional wisdom has already been manufactured.

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: Here’s the relevant Department of Defense Instruction:
    https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/dodd/corres/pdf/i130018_121800/i130018p.pdf

    4. POLICY
    It is DoD policy:
    4.1. That in the event a military member becomes a casualty, the NOK shall be
    notified as promptly as possible in a dignified, humane, professional, empathic, and
    understanding manner. Additionally, in those cases in which the military member is
    declared deceased or missing, the Military Services shall appoint a casualty assistance
    officer to advise and assist the immediate family in matters concerning NOK
    entitlements.
    4.2. That the Military Services shall record and report, to the most realistic extent
    possible, a full and accurate accounting of the death or missing status of all AD military
    personnel.
    4.3. That the dignity and privacy of the NOK and surviving family members will be
    protected and guarded. That no information concerning the military member will be
    released to individuals, agencies, the media, or the general public until the appropriate
    NOK have been notified by the Military Service concerned.

    And:

    6. PROCEDURES
    6.1. Casualty Notification and Assistance
    DODI 1300.18, Dec. 18, 2000
    5
    6.1.1. Initial Notification
    6.1.1.1. Desires of the Military Member. The desires of the military
    member, expressed in the record of emergency data or expressed by the member at the
    time of the casualty concerning whom not to notify, shall be honored unless, in the
    judgment of the member’s commander, official notification by the Military Service
    should be made.
    6.1.1.2. Deceased, Missing, and Duty Status Whereabouts Unknown
    (DUSTWUN). Within the guidance of the subparagraph 6.1.1.1., above, initial
    notification(s) shall be made in person to the primary NOK by a uniformed
    representative of the Military Service concerned, unless unusual circumstances prevent
    such procedures. Whenever a casualty occurs as the result of either a hostile action or
    terrorist activity, initial notification(s) shall also be made in person to parents who are
    the secondary NOK by a uniformed representative of the Military Service concerned,
    unless unusual circumstances prevent such procedures. When appropriate, a military
    chaplain shall accompany the uniformed representative on all initial notifications. If
    required, chaplain assistance from another branch of Military Service may be requested
    to provide timely and proper pastoral care. All facts and circumstances on the casualty
    incident, known at the time of the initial notification, shall be provided to the NOK.
    Care should be taken to ensure that no information that is offensive to the NOK, such as
    burial details and monetary provisions in a death case, be included in the initial
    notification. Whenever someone other than the member’s commander or designated
    representative makes initial notification, an official notification confirmation to the
    NOK shall be made by telegraphic or written communication.

  77. 77.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Gravenstone: What’s being done to get these people the stuff they need to register?

    A general gripe, complaint : we always seem to wait to the last minute to realize there needs to be organization and money to ensure that probable democratic voters get registered. IIRC thre was a county wide organization in 2012 in PA to fight the GOP voter suppression. Similar efforts need to be everywhere.

    Where are the big money democrats to support this kind of move to save democracy..

  78. 78.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mnemosyne:

    He is going to punish Puerto Rico because people are trying to shame him into doing more

    Viable, since he’s certainly a narcissist and a fine example of how spiteful they are. A simpler and fully supported explanation is that he’s a white supremacist and wants them to die. Built into that would be that it irritates the fuck out of him that people are trying to shame him for this.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    @different-church-lady: @germy: @Baud: Correct. My guess is the Senior White House official who approved this is the new Director of Communication, and boss of Huckabee Sanders, Hope Hicks. And my guess is the President told Hicks to do it directly.

  86. 86.

    different-church-lady

    @Baud:

    The news media should never have run with that then.

    Please apply my comment at 82 to this as well.

  88. 88.

    WaterGirl

    @Elizabelle: I am assuming that’s true, but someone somewhere ought to be able to say the military distributed this many bottles of water (or days or weeks) for this disaster and that many bottles for that disaster.

    It should be definitively provable one way or the other. That’s what I want to see.

  92. 92.

    Mnemosyne

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Both/and: he’s a racist narcissist who’s going to punish the people of Puerto Rico because other people are trying to shame him. That extra dose of spite and malice is the narcissist in action.

  95. 95.

    Fair Economist

    In all the tragedy of the California fires, something that will make it personal for many people:

    Home of Peanuts creator Charles Schulz destroyed in Santa Rosa fire.

    His widow is fine, and most Peanut memorabilia is in the museum, which didn’t burn (but which is closed because there’s no power). But there were some things there, like his workdesk, which are gone, and of course the house itself. One of his sons also lost a house.

  97. 97.

    lamh36

    @Adam L Silverman: yes…I saw that. I’d assume that Kelly advised Trump on the protocol of it all. But Chump had to have gotten that info from somewhere and I see him in conversation with Kelly, his CoS, “confirming” it.

    If Chump still went out and used Kelly’s son’s death in that way, then I’d like to think Kelly would be pissed…as anyone would be…but I also suspect that Kelly is fine w/Trump and loyal to his vision. Unlike some I don’t attribute his current willingness to co-sign everything Chump does/says to being loyal to country mostly. I attribute it to loyalty more so as loyalty to Chump.

    My question for those who still stink Kelly is staying cause of love of country, what do you think would be the line drawn in the sand?

  98. 98.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    I have noticed. I rarely buy magazines these days, but I still look at the covers.

    During the eight years of Obama, I bought pretty much every mag I saw with POTUS, FLOTUS, or the Obama girls on the cover. Still have them. Pretty sure more than a few CVS clerks wondered why a nice little old white lady was always buying Ebony, but that’s neither here nor there.

    I wouldn’t so much as touch a magazine with a Trump cover. Cooties is only the beginning.

  101. 101.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne: headline maybe, but the underlying article is good at pointing out another issue that has been underlying in Hollywood, but never really discussed, along the same lines as sexual harassment in Hollywood

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: @lamh36: Who knows. Most likely someone asked Kelly and he either said nothing, said no, or just shook his head and walked away. My understanding of how he dealt with his son’s death in terms of public interest was to ask that it be kept private. As I’ve repeatedly stated I don’t know him, but I have a close friend and former colleague who served with him and thinks highly of him. And I have a former student and good friend who was his aide de camp in Iraq in 2008 (Kelly was in charge of Multi-National Division West in Anbar, my brigade was in Multi-National Division Center south and east of Baghdad). He also speaks highly of him. My understanding is that at the time he didn’t want this to become a story of “first serving general’s son killed in current war” and have all the oxygen sucked out of the room when there were other parents who had also lost children who weren’t general officers/flag officers.

    I honestly don’t know what happens from here. At some point I expect a call log will be produced showing what President Obama did or did not do. And I reckon that Gen. and Mrs. Kelly are going to have a very long and painful discussion tonight about several things including just how much longer he will remain as chief of staff.

    I had a colleague at USAWC, a colonel on the faculty, whose son was killed in Afghanistan while he was also deployed forward. I did not know him or his wife before there son was killed in action. But it was clearly, even a couple of years on, very, very hard on them. He was exceedingly standoffish – even everyday, ordinary seeming acts of collegiality were made with stone faced responses. He was quite hard to deal with in in planning meetings and work groups. There was no joy in anything he seemed to be doing professionally. We all basically just let it go because we knew what had happened. And we all tried not to treat him differently. I cannot begin to fathom what the Kelly’s are going through right now. What the past 36 hours has done to them.

  105. 105.

    germy

    The brother and former business partner of disgraced Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein has been accused of sexual harassment.

    Amanda Segel, an executive producer of the television show “Mist,” told Variety that Bob Weinstein had made multiple unwanted romantic advances toward her last year.

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    It’s all the same issue. Young girls AND young boys are used and exploited sexually in Hollywood. Women AND men are sexually harassed and abused — look at what Terry Crews had to say about his experience of being groped by an executive.

    But there are some people (ETA: I don’t mean you!) who are only outraged when it’s “gay stuff” and stories about gay men abusing other men/boys. They don’t give a shit when it’s women being abused, only men.

    I feel about it kind of the same way you feel about the MSM suddenly discovering that white drug addicts exist and need help. The stories of the women and girls who’ve come forward are going to get shoved aside so homophobes can wring their hands about “predatory gays.”

    I will make one prediction without having to read the article: Black and other minority boys were probably victimized more often, because they have even less power than the white kids do. People knew for years that the guy who was the Svengali for Menudo was a pedophile, but they kept enabling him because his boy band made money.

  111. 111.

    mai naem mobile

    @Anne Laurie: you would have to explain this to Dumbass Dolt45 in the following terms: if Melanoma was lost serving in the War of Jimmy Choo Stilletoes vs. Kate Spade Platforms, would it be more appropriate for Anna Wintour to notify you or Melanoma’s parents?

    You could plug Ivanka’s name above for Dumbass Dolt45 may have that role confused .

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: From the reporting, and it got a bit muddled with yesterday’s report about the instructions he pushed to ICE about how to publicly refer to undocumented immigrants, my understanding is that Gen. Kelly is largely moderate and apolitical. The two friends I know that have served with him think highly of him. They also indicated that some of his views on immigration, human trafficking, and drug trafficking were informed by his time as the Commanding General of Southern Command. As I wrote above, I would expect that he and his wife will be having a long and painful discussion when he gets home tonight.

  113. 113.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As I’ve repeatedly stated I don’t know him, but I have a close friend and former colleague who served with him and thinks highly of him.

    I quite honestly would be curious to know if your friend still thinks as highly of Kelly now that he’s part of the Trump administration and it’s known that Kelly was deliberately ginning up anti-immingrant stories while he was head of DHS.

    As I’ve said a couple of times, I suspect that Kelly did fine when he was in the Army and stuck to their rules, but he seems to have internalized Trump’s rules now and is using those instead.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Or, to put it another way, Kelly is tarnishing his own brand by his actions:

    (Steve Jobs) believed that a company’s brand works like a bank account.

    When the company does good things, such as launch a hit product or a great campaign, it makes deposits in the brand bank. When a company experiences setbacks, like an embarrassing mouse or an overpriced computer, it’s making a withdrawal.

    When there’s a healthy balance in the brand bank, customers are more willing to ride out the tough times. With a low balance, they might be more tempted to cut and run.

    — Excerpt from “Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple’s Success” by Ken Segall

  117. 117.

    frosty

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    What’s being done to get these people the stuff they need to register?

    I don’t know and it’s driving me nuts. We knew we had to do this a year ago. All I get in email is begging for money. I could be out helping people get birth certificates or driving them to the DMV. Who’s asking for that sort of thing?

  118. 118.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: My friend is confused. He thinks a lot of what was observed at DHS was a combination of following orders from above combined with Kelly’s professional assessment, formed when Commander Southern Command, of what needs to be done to reduce/interdict human and drug trafficking from Central and South America. He thinks he’s taken the chief of staff job to try to stave off the worst.

  119. 119.

    Gelfling 545

    @lamh36: my 10 year old granddaughter was experimenting with the Halloween face paint and got herself up as a vampire. She was pretty scary. With her long blond hair & the vampite get up she looked like Conway.

  120. 120.

    Elizabelle

    @frosty: Thank you.

    Agreed. Send us projects we can show up for.

    Don’t just beg us for money with apocalyptic language. You are training us to say no.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: My understanding is that Gen. Mattis, Gen. Kelly, and LTG McMaster are willingly sacrificing their reputations because they think they can prevent the worst from happening.

  124. 124.

    lamh36

    Time for Finding Your Roots! Tonight’s guest: Ted Danson, Mary Steenburgen & William H. Macy!

    Hope this one is interesting, cause I’m already bored by the guest list…LOL

  127. 127.

    hedgehog mobile

    The mister and I are driving to Des Moines tomorrow. His mom passed away this morning; she was 92 and had been in hospice since July. Not unexpected but still awful. Today at work was spent getting everything lined up for a project due Thursday.

  128. 128.

    Mnemosyne

    @WaterGirl:

    My question is, if incontrovertible evidence comes out that Trump and his campaign colluded with Russia, what will McMaster and Kelly think is their first duty — protecting the system by continuing to prop him up or letting Trump fall?

  129. 129.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: I don’t know what they may or may not be doing. But for those that think the 25th Amendment would be the quick and easy path, it isn’t. You have to have a majority of the cabinet and then a 2/3 majority in both the House and the Senate. And you have to be able to sustain that 2/3 majority to override what will certainly be a veto by the President of the action. And if you think the Vice President would actually countenance this, I have a bridge to sell you.

  135. 135.

    lamh36

    @RossPalombo
    BREAKING: @RepWilson says @realDonaldTrump told soldier’s widow “He knew what he signed up for… but when it happens it hurts anyway.” @WPLGLocal10 (2/2)

  138. 138.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I am not as confident about that as you are, and Kelly’s actions at DHS are not making me feel any better about their decisionmaking. They may try to stop Trump from starting an actual shooting war, but if they decide that Trump needs to stay in office to avoid political chaos at home, I do not trust them to do what’s right. They have squandered that trust with their actions.

  139. 139.

    Blehmann

    I’m just so angry about that entitled, whiny woman complaining that Delta wouldn’t let her sing the national anthem while a fallen soldier was being transported.
    I visited the Arizona Memorial last month and the only proper way to show respect is through group silence. I have never been with such a solemn and well behaved tour group. It was very moving . I think that’s why that woman’s grandstanding as moved me to make a rare comment on a likely dead thread but I had to put this somewhere.

  142. 142.

    Jeffro

    “Just hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other, and showing it — of being friendly to one another, you know, that Americans owe to one another,” Mattis told them.

    It’s unclear when the Facebook video was actually filmed but Defense One’s Kevin Baron, who spotted the footage, said the remarks could have come during Mattis’ visit to Jordan last week.

    That would have been in the aftermath of the racist Charlottesville, Va. violence.

    The video shows Mattis, in a suit, introducing himself to the troops and thanking them for choosing service.

    “My name’s Mattis. I work at the Department of Defense,” the plain-spoken defense chief said.

    “And thanks for being out here, OK? I know at times you wonder if anybody knows … The only way this great big experiment you and I call America is going to survive is if we got tough hombres like you.”

    Mattis, who is also dealing with implementing President Trump’s transgender military ban, told service members: “You’re a great example for our country right now. It’s got a few problems. You know it and I know it. It’s got problems that we don’t have in the military.

  143. 143.

    Betty Cracker

    @lamh36: “He knew what he signed up for?” He actually said that to the soldier’s widow? As if explaining the Trump U contract to a fleeced mark?

    Christ, the fucking gall. I’m discovering new depths of hatred every day with that morherfucker in the White House.

    The day that corpulent prick’s latest bucket of KFC finally sends him to a well-deserved dirt nap will be a day — no, a week! — of great rejoicing in the Cracker Compund. Y’all are all invited for champagne brunch and viewing of the ceremony on a big screen.

  145. 145.

    chopper

    @lamh36:

    jesus, I mean I love ace of spades but I don’t want some crazy person sitting next to me on a flight screaming it at the top of their lungs.

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:
    I want proof positive before I do any rejoicing. I’m going to need to see the autopsy done in real time. And that’s the only time between now and then that I want to see his face.

  152. 152.

    J R in WV

    @lamh36:

    Just saw that… hard to watch. The soldiers did well at a very difficult job, I have been a pall bearer for relatives and friends, hard to do in any case!

    Thanks for sharing. Mr Trump wasn’t there……

  154. 154.

    Miss Bianca

    @Betty Cracker: oh Betty, do you promise? I will be there with bells on – and a red dress. All the better t o dance metaphorically, if not literally, on the Dirt Bed. Thanks for my only good laugh so far today!

  155. 155.

    hugely

    @Blehmann: I found it interesting that the Japanese tourists at PH do not, or rarely take the launch out to the Arizona Memorial. I’m guessing that it is printed somewhere in a guidebook that they shouldn’t go because it may offend Americans

    I had to keep my kids from yapping and playing around on the memorial. But silence was the order for the visit yes

  157. 157.

    Tehanu

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I cannot begin to fathom what the Kelly’s are going through right now. What the past 36 hours has done to them.

    That’s because you’re a decent human being and Dump is a disgusting turd.

  159. 159.

    hedgehog mobile

    Thanks everyone for your kindness. This is a true community and I am grateful to be part of it.

  161. 161.

    No One You Know

    @frosty: I’ve responded to my last DNC survey that until they fix two specific problems, the damning of senior women in the party such as Pelosi and Clinton, and the utter failure to deal with GOTV, that I have nothing further to say to them and no more money to waste on them. Kamala Harris can’t do it all.

    I’m tired of them. They will not get the message. But it’s not because I didn’t try. Might be because I don’t matter; to matter, I’d have to have a million bucks, scorn the wise grandmas, and help some of the new kids on the block burnish their resumes. That seems to be the message. Fuck ’em.

  163. 163.

    J R in WV

    @hedgehog mobile:

    So sorry to hear of your loss. At 92, or even 80s, you know it is gonna happen someday, sooner than later, but it is still and always a shock the day it happens.

    I hope you have a good wake with lots of family and friends to hug and tell stories. That can help a lot. Or even just a couple cousins you have known all your life you can stand with and be the was it used to be.

    Be careful traveling and such!

  164. 164.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you Adam! I have repeatedly posted this here till I was blue in the fingers & no one seems to have noticed. Maybe now that you have posted it, they will.

    FTR:

    The 25th is intended for instances when POTUS agrees that the command authority will be out of the loop, e.g., during general anesthesia. It is not intended for use in sidelining an uncooperative POTUS – impeachment & removal is actually easier from a vote-counting standpoint.

    Read the fucking amendment text if you don’t believe me!

  166. 166.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @hedgehog mobile: My condolences as well. It may not have been a shock, but losing someone that close is always accompanied by the sense of a large door closing forever: sometimes with a crash, sometimes with a thud, sometimes with no more than the soft but definitive clank of the bolt sliding into place. (Not sure how to deal with that – having lost two close family members in the last 2-1/2 years, I’m still feeling my way one foot after the other…)

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