Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

No one could have predicted…

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Russiagate Open Thread: Young Prince Jared Is Troubled

Russiagate Open Thread: Young Prince Jared Is Troubled

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And well he should be! Gabriel Sherman, at Vanity Fair, says “’Kelly Has Clipped his Wings’: Jared Kushner’s Horizons Are Collapsing within the West Wing”

… [I]t wasn’t long ago when Trump handed Kushner a comically broad portfolio that included plans to reinvent government, reform the V.A., end the opioid epidemic, run point on China, and solve Middle East peace. But since his appointment, according to sources, Kelly has tried to shrink Kushner’s responsibilities to focus primarily on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And even that brief appears to be creating tensions between Kushner and Kelly. According to two people close to the White House, Kelly was said to be displeased with the result of Kushner’s trip to Saudi Arabia last month because it took place just days before 32-year-old Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman arrested 11 Saudi royals, including billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal. The Washington Post reported that Kushner and M.B.S., as the prince is known, stayed up till nearly 4 a.m. “planning strategy,” which left Kelly to deal with the impression that the administration had advance knowledge of the purge and even helped orchestrate it, sources told me. (Asked about this, Sarah Huckabee Sanders responded, in part: “Chief Kelly and Jared had a good laugh about this inquiry as nothing in it is true.”)

Where this all leaves Kushner in Trump’s ever-changing orbit is a topic that’s being discussed by Republicans close to the White House. During Kelly’s review of West Wing operations over the summer, the chief of staff sought to downsize Kushner’s portfolio, two sources said. In the early days of the administration, sometimes with the help of a small cadre of Ivy League whiz kids who staff his Office of American Innovation, Kushner dreamed up scores of business “councils” that would advise the White House. “The councils are gone,” one West Wing official told me. With some of their purview being whittled away, “they seem lost,” the official added…

According to two Republicans who have spoken with Trump, the president has also been frustrated with Kushner’s political advice, including his encouragement to back losing Alabama G.O.P. candidate Luther Strange and to fire F.B.I. Director James Comey, which Kushner denies. (For what it’s worth, Kushner’s choice of Strange prevented Trump from the embarrassment of inadvertently supporting Roy Moore.) Trump, according to three people who’ve spoken to him, has advocated for Jared and Ivanka to return to New York in part because they are being damaged by negative press. “He keeps pressuring them to go,” one source close to Kushner told me. But as bad as the Russia investigation may be, it’s not clear a New York homecoming would be much better for Kushner, given that his family’s debt-ridden office tower at 666 Fifth Avenue could be headed for bankruptcy…

All his beautiful councils, gone away! You’d think Jared would’ve learned from his own daddy’s experience: When Big Poppa tells you to get out of town, it’s never a smart idea to hang around and wait for the Law to show up. Somebody’s gotta stay clear, be ready to show up on visiting days with reports from outside.

It’s also a mystery to me why Kushner’s security clearance hasn’t been pulled, although ten days ago Politico reported that he’s still using a temporary clearance, while he keeps being reminded of stuff he should’ve listed on his application. The professionals quoted say it’s not unheard-of for a permanent clearance to take months, although “under normal circumstances” someone who ranks as high as Kushner would be moved to the front of the line.

Reader Interactions

203Comments

  1. 1.

    Amir Khalid

    If Jared Kushner ever gave it any thought, he might have realised that asking “will they get” the President was implicit confirmation that the President had indeed done something he could be got for.

  4. 4.

    satby

    I guess this is our morning thread, so good morning Amir and Ozark! I just missed the side table putting down my ☕cup and had to mop up a mess. Serves me right for reading instead of watching what I was doing.

    Edited to add: Good morning eclare too!

  6. 6.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: @eclare: I suspect that the only thing delaying any accidents to any of the principles in this is Putin’s knowledge that it might push his toadies in government here too far; it would practically be an open declaration of war on them and they’d suddenly become “patriots”.

  7. 7.

    burnspbesq

    I don’t think there is ANY doubt that Kushner could be indicted on Monday for misstatements and omissions on his SF-86. That’s the basic source of all the leverage that Mueller has on him.

    Sometime in the not too distant future, Mueller is going to haul Kushner’s ass into Room 101, strap the cage on his head, and start asking questions. And the rats will be hungry.

  8. 8.

    eclare

    @satby: Might also scare them silly…stuff got real. What are people up to? Just chores and football here. Iron Bowl should be good.

  9. 9.

    Zinsky

    I think nailing Kushner may be key to getting Trump the hell out of the White House. I think if Trump can cut a deal to keep Jared from going to prison, he might do it. Trump may preemptively pardon everyone, including himself, and then resign.

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @eclare: Oh Putin won’t do the deed. As far as he is concerned,
    “everything is beautiful,
    in it’s own way…”
    Chaos in the White House is exactly what he wants. Mind you, he’ll be just fine with Kelly offing Jared but he doesn’t really care one way or the other.

  13. 13.

    bystander

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Jared had a fatal accident.

    You sweet talker! Umbrella tip or an infected paper cut from his own indictment, I’m OK either way.

    Morning all!

  20. 20.

    Sam

    The SF86 thing is really bad. He should have been frog-marched out of the White House months ago, after a stiff reminder of his lifetime obligation to guard classified information. There is evidence that his omissions were deliberate, and he should have been charged with perjury a long time ago.

    Instead he is fomenting a coup in Saudi Arabia.

    MAGA

  21. 21.

    Kristine

    Morning to All!

    Yesterday was unseasonably warm here in NE Illinois—60F—so I put out Xmas decorations. A fair number of homes ? around here are well-illuminated.

  27. 27.

    Cermet

    A bit lost for the extreme hatred of Kushner – while he is a low life, many are and much worse than him – for instance, Kock sucker brothers; also, Kushner is just a symptom of the disease rather than its cause. I would much more enjoy others coming down with permanent illnesses that follow a path downward trajectory, in reverse order of course, than such a secondary and somewhat irrelevant character like the small handed orange fart cloud’s son-in-law.

  29. 29.

    satby

    @Kristine: both Thanksgiving and yesterday were beautiful days for late November here in Indiana too. If I put out decorations, it would have been perfect weather. Many Novembers I would be stringing lights in sub-freezing temperatures with surly teenage boys.

  32. 32.

    satby

    @Cermet: ahh, I don’t think anyone really hates him personally as much as hates the nepotism and avarice he represents. We’re rooting for injuries to the Orange Abomination, and Kushner is probably key to that happening.

  33. 33.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cermet:
    Kushner may be a small fry who doesn’t realise it, but he is in the President’s inner circle. Bring him down and you’re already at the Oval Office door.

  43. 43.

    Sab

    @satby: If you have seen anything about the slimy stuff his company has done as land lord, like civilly arresting many tenants for back debts (didn’t that used to be illegal in US) it’s not hard at all to hate him for himself, not just hate him as a Trump in law. He is a predator.

  46. 46.

    Waspuppet

    (For what it’s worth, Kushner’s choice of Strange prevented Trump from the embarrassment of inadvertently supporting Roy Moore.)

    A small service which Trump repaid by loudly and proudly supporting Moore this week.

    Dealing with a sundowning parent is tough …

  47. 47.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I made the chili and cornbread for tonight’s creek side thanksgiving meal yesterday, still have to pack everything up. Something will be forgotten. Hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving as much as I will mine.

  48. 48.

    Kristine

    @satby: According to my Book Of Faces memories, we had quite a bit of ❄️ at this time two years ago. Currently my lavender bush is still green, though the blooming may have stopped. I had the snow thrower serviced so it’s ready to go, but I am enjoying not needing it

  49. 49.

    Cermet

    @Amir Khalid: Good point

    @Baud: Yeah, a lot do thanks to that fart cloud

    @satby: agree he shouldn’t hold even unofficial positions but if he can destabilize the Saudi’s, he is helping humanity …maybe he can even get a radical faction to take over and attack Israel …oil production tanks, we get an incentive to give up oil and Israel reverses really bad policies…. uh, maybe tRump is on to something here..

  50. 50.

    satby

    @Sab: oh, he’s loathsome, certainly; but no more than the rest of the crew. I despise all of them on principle and hope they all go down for assorted crimes. But singling him out for special hate, I don’t really, much more hate for his father-in-law.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    So trumps Tday tweet received 95,518 likes and 23,951 retweets. Obama’s? 1,264,793 likes and 210,836 retweets.

    That got me to wondering and I looked up the top 30 most liked tweets and it turns out Obama authored 17 of them including the #1 tweet, “No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion…” which has 4.6 million likes and 1.7 million retweets. Michelle Obama makes the list twice and Hillary once.

    The twitler? Nope, probably not even close.

    I’ll bet that eats him up.

  57. 57.

    Bruce K

    Kushner and Ivanka should go back to New York. Rikers Island isn’t bad this time of year, and Ossining has its points of interest as well.

  62. 62.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I prefer “Merry Appropriated Pagan Solstice Celebration”. It is a bit wordy but far more accurate.

    THAT…is going to make some folks in my office quite happy on Monday!

  65. 65.

    Immanentize

    Hello, All. I am lazing about, coffee in hand (not on floor, Satby), cat at my feet, Immp still asleep. Made it through the first holiday-without intact. Now, Appropriated Pagan Solstice Day looms….

    Meanwhile. OzarkH (and all others). I’m refinishing a small table — Mid-Century, Beech wood top. Refinish with: Watcos? Waterlox? Other????
    Thanks

    ETA clarity

  71. 71.

    zhena gogolia

    Sleepless with a bad cough, I fantasized that Robert Mueller knows that we have an illegitimate president; that’s he’s as pissed about it as we all are; and that he is laser-focused on bringing him to justice and restoring some semblance of the American way.

  72. 72.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Jeffro: @Josie: Just because they are idiots, doesn’t mean they are ignorant too. A lot of Christians are convinced they are the most persecuted people on the planet and an atheist making fun of their 2nd most sacred holiday is just what they are looking for.

    I’m also thinking of another t-shirt that wouldn’t get me punched but is no less true: “The war on Christmas is over. Walmart won.”

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    3 a.m. and popped awake. Got in a little downtime, anyway, before the hand poking out the end of the raveled sleeve of care gave sleep the finger.

  77. 77.

    tobie

    I’m waiting for the delivery of my new range/oven. It’s the first appliance I’ve bought for the house so I’m very excited, especially about the double oven, which means I won’t have to heat up a huge oven just to bake something for Mr. tobie and myself. I was in a funk for three days after my surgery on Wednesday but today am feeling awake. Yes!

  78. 78.

    Spanky

    @Immanentize: One foot in front of the other …
    Don’t get sucked down. (Easily said, eh?) I know you have good IRL support, and we’re here when you need to let something go.

  79. 79.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: I use Watcos for nearly all my furniture finishing. Depending on the final look I want I may topcoat with polyurethane but usually not. I am planning on making Mrs OH a trestle dining room table from local red oak I’ve had drying in a shed for over a year now, and the color imparted by their cherry danish oil gives it the perfect warmth (to my eye).

  80. 80.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Good morning, all. There were two deer in the front yard when I got up, and they were driving the kittehs crazy. I chased them away – they eat too many things I like. The kittehs are now jumpy. First time they haven’t met me at my bedroom door.

    I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what a “temporary security clearance” is.

    At a national laboratory, if you don’t have a security clearance, you sit in an office “outside the fence” and are given work to do that doesn’t require dealing with classified material until your clearance comes through.

    If Jared is being given access to classified, which “temporary security clearance” implies, I wouldn’t depend on his unseeing it if his clearance doesn’t come through. Of course, in a normal administration, people who are nominated to such posts (nominated because it’s conditional until the clearance comes through) are the kind who usually will get a clearance. So there hasn’t been a problem in the past.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    @Spanky: Thanks. That is the plan. I have a close friend whose husband died just weeks after my wife. We have agreed together that we will not get hollowed out! Which is like sucked down…. I am relying on the kindness of friends — including folks here — and the immediate needs of a 16 year old boy to keep the engines running. So far, staying on the track with my hand still on my heart.

  83. 83.

    Josie

    @Immanentize: Twenty years ago, I found that the needs of my three boys were the lifeline that kept me going. Children are a blessing in more ways than we can count. I wish you strength and peace in the days to come.

  84. 84.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Here’s my guess: a temporary security clearance is what der Scheißgibbon got for his SIL by throwing a tantrum when the security clearance people told him they couldn’t possibly sign off an actual clearance to said SIL. Valid until Jared is led away in handcuffs.

  85. 85.

    randy khan

    @Sam:

    Instead he is fomenting a coup in Saudi Arabia.

    It’s hard for me to imagine he’s competent enough to do that. In fact, if he was so tight with the Crown Prince that they stayed up until 4:00 a.m. strategizing and he didn’t get any indication that something was coming, he’s even less competent than I thought. (The alternative, hat he did figure something was coming but didn’t think he needed to tell U.S. intelligence about it, seems more likely to me.)

  86. 86.

    Redshift

    Hi, everyone! I am finally getting my new front door today, which is why I’ve dragged my night owl ass out of bed this early in a Saturday. No more earthquake-shifted doorframe, no more weatherstripping to keep cold air from blowing through the gap under the door, yay! (Some previous owner of this house was really bad at home improvement.)

  89. 89.

    Redshift

    @randy khan: I don’t think he’s competent enough to initiate it, but I think he’s entirely capable of telling his pal the prince to go for it and we’ll be behind him 100%, without along anyone smarter if that’s in the United States’ interest.

  94. 94.

    tobie

    @randy khan: Does anyone know how Kushner’s visit with MBS is being characterized in the region? I assume the US is seen as squarely supporting the palace coup, and this could get us into trouble a region, where anti-American sentiment runs rampant for many legitimate reasons. I think the best characterization of Jared is the British expression: he couldn’t organize a piss-up in a brewery.

  96. 96.

    ThresherK

    The mole (from three days ago) has gone to a better place.

    Okay, I mean it’s alive, but not in our apartment. Geez, no wonder nobody lets me deliver news to their kids.

  97. 97.

    Tenar Arha

    @Cermet: There’s justifiable anger for Javanka, but it is because of what they symbolize. They’re simultaneously a symptom of the grifting and rot at the center of this Administration. They’re also a symbol of the bait and switch inherent in how they were used to sell the possibility of moderation in this Administration. They’re neither capable of talking down the Shitgibbon’s bad ideas, but also they have really terrible ideas.

    It may be smarter to watch out for the evil Jeff Sessions and Neil Gorsuch etc. are doing, but it’s easier to point to Javanka and ask “why are these completely unqualified failures allowed in our government?” Basically, everyone understands how bad nepotism for the unqualified is in their own lives, probably because they’ve already experienced it.

  99. 99.

    Matt McIrvin

    @burnspbesq: yeah, I don’t see Trump leaving office voluntarily because at this point it’s the one thing keeping him out of prison in New York. It’s a variant of the classic Third World strongman problem.

  100. 100.

    Sam

    @randy khan: I’m sure he aided and abetted. The doings in SA would not have happened without implicit US backing. Did we ever get any info about the purpose or outcome of the trip? ‘Nuf said.

  101. 101.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Cheryl Rofer: “Temporary security clearance” sounds like a misstatement of “Interim clearance”, which is a thing I’ve held. There were times when the backlog was so bad for investigations that it could take 18 months to get fully cleared, but the interim clearance could be processed in a couple of weeks. I think it’s based on some minimal background check, like asking law enforcement if your fingerprints are on file, the kind of thing they do for people in teaching positions. It’s the door-to-door checking of all your reported facts and the interviews with friends and family that takes all the time.

    Of course, the stuff that Jared has been allowed to deal with is our most sensitive secrets, so almost certainly Sensitive Compartmented Info (SCI). I’m not sure if there’s such a thing as an interim SCI. So I just did a quick google and lo and behold, it actually exists. You can actually be given SCI after a cursory check. Presumably it can be then taken away if the longer investigation finds any oopsies.

    Here is one discussion on the subject.

    Bringing these people down is really important for the soul of this country. My wife has had to teach an ethics course this year. What do you say when the students ask, “Look what Trump’s people get away with. Why should I be ethical?”

    Edit to add: ALL security clearances are temporary. If you leave the job, if you change assignments and can no longer justify access to the information, if you commit an oopsie and the Security people decide you are no longer trustworthy, you can lose it. Even if none of that happens, they all expire and have to be redone.

  102. 102.

    Amir Khalid

    @Matt McIrvin:
    I can easily imagine Trump refusing to leave office — well, refusing to leave the White House — even after impeachment and conviction.

  105. 105.

    Matt McIrvin

    @tobie: I just read Thomas Friedman’s long puff piece in the Washington Post gushing about the coup and the prince’s reformist ambitions. If nothing else made me suspicious about it, Friedman being on board would.

  108. 108.

    debbie

    @Josie:

    It was a billion years ago when my father died, but my 8-year-old brother was the only reason my mother chose to live on.

  109. 109.

    raven

    @Immanentize: I use “A crystal clear finish that never yellows, Varathane® Diamond Wood Finish® resists water, alcohol, and household chemicals, AND is low odour and environmentally friendly.” On my heart pone floors and an old oak table.

  112. 112.

    wenchacha

    Shameless plug here for my beautiful daughter-in-law, Harumo Sato, who will have a booth at Etsy San Francisco this weekend.

  113. 113.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Matt McIrvin: @tobie: Larrison tears him a new one: Friedman’s Love Letter to a War Criminal

    Sometimes newspapers publish credulous fluff pieces about their subjects, but Tom Friedman leaves them all in the dust with his encomium to Mohammed bin Salman (MBS):

    Unlike the other Arab Springs — all of which emerged bottom up and failed miserably, except in Tunisia — this one is led from the top down by the country’s 32-year-old crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, and, if it succeeds, it will not only change the character of Saudi Arabia but the tone and tenor of Islam across the globe. Only a fool would predict its success — but only a fool would not root for it.

    It would be more accurate to say that only a fool would be so quick to take all of this at face value. I don’t see the news value in having a prominent columnist working as a foreign leader’s publicist, but it is extremely useful for the crown prince to be given a major platform to deliver his spin to someone who will uncritically endorse it. There is practically nothing in the long profile that might displease its subject, whose assurances are taken as proof that he is the zealous “reformer” that his cheerleaders say that he is. Friedman tells us that he couldn’t find anyone with a bad word to say about MBS’ purges, as if anyone there would feel free to do so after the dramatic mass arrests that the crown prince has orchestrated.

  114. 114.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Thanks. All this is predicated on the assumption that people don’t hire people who likely can’t get a security clearance because of their money laundering and parties in Moscow. As usual, Trump is blowing through the norms.

    There are also cultural differences between the various agencies and types of classified. The categories applied in National Security Information (what Jared is mostly dealing with) are higher than for Restricted Data (nuclear weapons-related), but what I’ve observed is that the people who work with NSI are more casual about precautions like who sees it than those who deal with RD. One might think that if they put stronger labels on it, they would also be more careful with who sees it, but it’s the other way around.

  116. 116.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump

    Robert Mueller called to say that I was PROBABLY going to be exonerated of money laundering, treason, and mangling the English language, but I would have to agree to an interview and a major lie detector test. I said probably is no good and I have decided to resign. Thanks anyway!
    2:40 PM – Nov 24, 2017

    84,046 84,046 Replies
    33,702 33,702 Retweets

  118. 118.

    MomSense

    It’s a bright and beautiful morning here. The dog just walked by and I could see the dog hair falling off of her and catching the light as it floated to the floor. I think that means I should do some vacuuming and dusting before going out for a walk.

    Haven’t heard any hunters yet which is weird. I’ll wear my orange anyway.

    I think there are a few more horcruxes to be destroyed before we get Jared, but I think he’s in big trouble. I really hope Flynn flipping is causing lots of upset to Under His Eye Pence.

  122. 122.

    StringOnAStick

    Yesterday I had two old friends from college drop by for the first of what we’ve all agreed will be a resumption of our friendships from 34 years ago. They weren’t a couple when we were in college; both had first marriages and 1 or 2 children. It was so great to see them, I’ve been on a happy high ever since. Both have a child living on our side of the Rockies so they’ll be over often, and I plan to go visit them too. Winter travel might slow us all down but not too much!

  124. 124.

    Redshift

    @OzarkHillbilly: From a couple of pieces I’ve seen, BBC seems to be taking the “anti-corruption” story at face value more than I would expect from them. However, I haven’t seen everything they’ve done on it, so they may have done other more skeptical stories.

  125. 125.

    susan

    Trump is an epic asshat and Kushner is less interesting. Did you adopt out the sweet torbies Irina and Masha?

  126. 126.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: “Under His Eye Pence” — love it! I might modify it to “Under His Beady Eye Pence.” He’s got those creepy, sunken eyes like a secret child molester.

  129. 129.

    Amir Khalid

    @germy:
    It’s as if the substance of those deals wasn’t actually negotiated by officials and experts at a level below that of President and Secretary of State/Foreign Minister.

  132. 132.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I suspect Jared’s family members (business partners, including in 666 Fifth Ave– and once again, Come on, Universe!– and it’s outstanding loans) have rather strong ideas about how much loyalty Jared should have for the trump clan. I think even Ivanka would oh-so-regretfully and passively agree that he should talk to those people if it meant she could maintain her lifestyle on this side of the ol’ Graybar Hotel

  133. 133.

    MomSense

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    I absolutely think Flynn will drag Pence into this because it was Pence who was warned directly by Yates. It was Pence who ran the transition and it there are a lot of super shady things that happened during the transition. Flynn’s telephone conversations with Kislyak, the documents stolen from the SCIF, and so on.

  136. 136.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Amir Khalid: If he loses in 2020, even by a landslide, he will assert a rigged election and contest every way he can, including urging mass violence. If he wins, and lives long enough, he’ll push hard for revocation of term limits or some kind of emergency suspension of the Constitution. I think he hates the job but if jail is the alternative, he won’t leave quietly.

  137. 137.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    Everything about these people is fucked up, down to the smallest details

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders responded, in part: “Chief Kelly and Jared had a good laugh about this inquiry as nothing in it is true.”

    “Chief Kelly”? Where do they get these titles? He’s the goddamn chief of staff in a white-collar office suite. She makes him sound like some grizzled old Navy guy with anchor tattoos on his forearms and a half-chewed stogie always in his mouth who stands by in the background ready to do some wrench-turning, wipe random stuff with an oily rag or plug any leaks that might spring up. Well, okay, he might be doing some of that last thing.

    This goes on the list with “General Sessions.”

  138. 138.

    Citizen_X

    “Do you think they’ll get the President?” – Jared Kushner

    Mother will they get the President?
    And will they tie me to the FSB Resident?
    Mother does Bob Mueller have me by the balls?
    Ooooo-oo,
    Mother will we ever Build the Wall?

  139. 139.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    White athletes tend to be right-wingers if they’re political at all, so I won’t be looking to this guy to join the Resistance, but this made me chuckle

    Noah Syndergaard‏Verified account @ Noahsyndergaard
    Sports Illustrated called and said I was probably going to be Sportsman of the Year, but it was going to take a long photo shoot and interview. I’m not proud of my recent perm and have a interpretive dance class at the interview time so I turned it down! No Thanks SI!!

    @Steeplejack (phone): “Chief Kelly”? Where do they get these titles? He’s the goddamn chief of staff in a white-collar office suite. She makes him sound like some grizzled old Navy guy with anchor tattoos on his forearms

    Jumped out at me, too. Old Navy guy, or Chief of Police, which with this crew and Kelly’s history is scarier

  141. 141.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Josie: My preferred version is “Have a happy Winter Solstice Holiday of your choice.” And to any Xtian who gets shirty: “You do know that Biblical scholars all agree Jesus of Nazareth was born in the springtime – don’t you?”

    I had a deeply religious coworker years ago whose calendar sported the following entry for December 25: “Jesus’s Birthday (Observed)”. Our judges will accept that…

  144. 144.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @schrodingers_cat: Spiro T. Agnew had been accepting bribes from those seeking government contracts since his days as Baltimore County Executive (1963-7), through his abbreviated term as Governor of MD (1967-8), & was still accepting “white envelopes” from engineer Lester Katz in the Vice President’s office (literally). George Beall, the Republican US Attorney for MD, had Matz’s testimony & enough other evidence to send the sitting VPOTUS up the river for many years – but recognized that the most urgent need was to get that mofo out of the line of successioin to the Presidency. So Agnew was allowed to plead nolo contendere (“no contest”) to the charges in Federal court, in exchange for his resignation. (IIRC some enterprising U of MD law students successfully sued Agnew for the sum total of the bribes he accepted, which $$$ was then returned to the state government.)

  145. 145.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Uncle Cosmo: ETA: Lester Matz, not Katz. Apologies to all my friends of the Katz persuasion…

    Also please note: The bribes were relatively small amounts, in the high 3- or low 4-figures. The wonder is not that Agnew was a crook – there was some bitter justice to the late-1970s National Lampoon’s proposed motto for MD license plates, “Cradle Of Graft” – it’s that he was such a cheap crook.

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Good morning everyone!!

    We celebrate Winter Solstice, with a little gift giving, a feast, depending upon the weather a fire in the backyard, or even a smallish bonfire if there’s that kind of waste around, brush and tree bits. I am hoping for more indictments.

    Did everyone see my warning about Pineapple Upside Down Cake??

    NEVER USE Fresh Raw uncooked Pineapple to bake with!!! My cake turned out to be a monstrosity, a thin layer of baked crust on top of a thick layer of uncooked sticky batter, that floated on top of a thin brown fluid. Vile, because of enzymes in the fresh pineapple.NEVER USE Fresh Raw uncooked Pineapple to bake with!!!

    Cheryl warned me, but too late, I didn’t see her warning until the monster was in the oven, so I just baked it to see what the results would be. Cheryl’s reaction was That sound worse than I expected.

    I’m a good cook in general, but sometimes I make a mistake. So far the funniest one was the time I made a really good stir-fry for dinner, followed by a freshly baked lemon merangue pie, with eggs from our yard birds it was a thing of real beauty and could have been a cover photo shot for a foodie publication. More golden (from the outdoor chicken’s gold egg yolks) and with a really smooth white topping browned evenly, it looked so good!

    But after we each took a bite, it was disappointing. Sweet sugary nothing pie, with the faintest hint of lemon from the zest, the fresh squeezed lemon juice was on the counter where I beat together the pie filling, sans lemon juice. SAD! But not as sad as the pineapple skillet cake, which didn’t even pose a food.

    ;-) better luck next time, for the solstice.

  149. 149.

    frosty

    @schrodingers_cat: @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Yes, while governor, but it started before that when he was County Executive of Baltimore County. If an engineering firm wanted to get a County contract, they had to pass a brown envelope to Agnew. Spiro liked the cash so he kept the tradition as governor. He got taken down by George Beall, US Attorney for Maryland, who was investigating Baltimore County corruption in 1973, well after Agnew became VP, and he didn’t expect to snare him.

    I haven’t heard that Pence has anything like this in his background.

  150. 150.

    Uncle Cosmo

    Jar-Jar Kush in an orange jump suit next to his father-in-lawlessness: Delectable!

    Dunno who Poison Uv Duh Yeer is for 2017 but I have great hopes that the recipient for 2018 will be one Bobby 3Styx….

  151. 151.

    BellyCat

    @raven: Varathane is also great.

    If you’re not aware of this, note that Watco has a distinct odor (that fades over time).

    Suggestion for Immanentize: try a small sample of both on a similar color wood (or a hidden area on the piece of furniture you’re refinishing) of both before you commit.

  156. 156.

    J R in WV

    @raven:

    Panama City Beach?

    @schrodingers_cat:

    “So unless a VP resigns on his own accord, is impeachment the only way to remove him from office.”

    Well, they could indict him, convict him, and take him to Federal prison somewhere, which would make it hard for him to exercise his prerogatives of office. But I imagine they would have been impeaching him in there somewhere, don’t you?

    Yes, impeachment is the only way. The 25th Amendment only provides a method for removing a President, leaving the original language of the Constitution to remove a VP.

    And Don’t Cook with fresh pineapple! Or have I mentioned that? ;-) Every recipe should include that note!!

  157. 157.

    frosty

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    it’s that he was such a cheap crook.

    To be fair, there wasn’t a lot of money to be made in his line of graft. He was getting kickbacks from engineering companies for 5% of the fee, where the profit on the work is typically 10%. Much more than that and it might have raised some questions.

    Fun disclosure: I work for the company that Matz and his partner Childs founded.

  159. 159.

    BC in Illinois

    Full disclosure:
    I worked at the polls (age 17) for Agnew’s election as Governor. You should have seen the guy he was running against. The Dem primary, as I remember it, split three ways and so their candidate was some guy whose slogan was “You home is your castle — Protect it!” That’s what he thought about gun laws [a big thing at that time, Sen Tydings lost because of NRA opposition] and “open housing laws” [you know, laws that took away your right to forbid any Black person from buying your property and took away the right of communities to enforce “White only” policies].

    Agnew was seen as a moderate Republican, in contrast. (In 1966. By 1968, he was mad at the Blacks.)

    We thought, until it all came out, that he was one of our less-corrupt Governors.

  161. 161.

    Brachiator

    @Matt McIrvin:

    If he loses in 2020, even by a landslide, he will assert a rigged election and contest every way he can, including urging mass violence.

    Don’t care, as long as he loses.

    If he wins, and lives long enough, he’ll push hard for revocation of term limits or some kind of emergency suspension of the Constitution.

    Never gonna happen. He could not suspend the Constitution.

    I think he hates the job but if jail is the alternative, he won’t leave quietly.

    Impeachment, conviction, and removal from office would be sufficient. He can make all the noise he wants.

    I want him gone by any legal means possible. I don’t care what kind of racket he makes.

  164. 164.

    randy khan

    @Amir Khalid: @Matt McIrvin:

    If he loses in 2020, even by a landslide, he will assert a rigged election and contest every way he can, including urging mass violence. If he wins, and lives long enough, he’ll push hard for revocation of term limits or some kind of emergency suspension of the Constitution. I think he hates the job but if jail is the alternative, he won’t leave quietly.

    All of the scenarios that imagine him trying to stay in the White House do not seem to account for the Secret Service or the military, which will switch loyalty to the new President pretty much immediately. Once that happens, he’s gone.

  165. 165.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @frosty: Damn right I beat you – I not only lived through it as a young adult but I was active in the Baltimore County Democratic Party at the time. I even have Beall’s (ghostwritten) book about the affair, A Heartbeat Away, on my shelf if I need it.

  166. 166.

    Brachiator

    @BC in Illinois:

    Agnew was seen as a moderate Republican, in contrast. (In 1966. By 1968, he was mad at the Blacks.)

    We thought, until it all came out, that he was one of our less-corrupt Governors.

    Thanks very much for this bit of historical insight.

    I had no idea that Agnew had been seen as a good, reasonably honest choice.

  167. 167.

    J R in WV

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Nice! That office tower on the left, how long has it been falling over to the left? ;-)

    You’re really tearing it up well on Photoshop. My camera offers panorama and I’ve used it a couple of times, seems to work OK. I don’t know how it would do in the available darkness like this shot.

  168. 168.

    J R in WV

    @raven:

    So Raven, that photo, you must be looking west, as we see the setting sun. How is the beach on the left, which is south, when we all know the gulf coast is the south end of the country?

    When we visited Panama City back in the late 1950s or early ’60s there were no buildings more than 2 or 3 stories high. It was still old Florida, quiet clean beaches, seafood to eat, and old motels along the beach road. Quiet all day. How tall are those towers? 20 or 30 stories of apartments and condos? Sarasota’s Siesta Key is like that too, hotels and condos instead of beach houses.

  169. 169.

    dexwood

    @Uncle Cosmo:
    I grew up in Baltimore County and well remember the politics of the time – once a political junkie always a political junkie it seems. My father, no liberal by any stretch, loved the Baltimore Colts more than he did the Catholic church. Once, as a union representative, he was invited to sit in Agnew’s box at Memorial Stadium to watch a game with him and others. My father refused. It must have killed him to miss that game while watching from a great seat. He hated Agnew. Unfortunately, he really liked Nixon.

  170. 170.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @schrodingers_cat: Impeachment – or death. (NB I do not advocate the latter.) In tneory VPOTUS could be a convicted felon languishing in prison & still be second in line for the Presidency.

    IIUC Nixon was seriously considering replacing Agnew on the 1972 ticket with former Democratic Governor of TX John Connally (when he changed parties & joined the Administration as Secretary of the Treasury, it was cited in the press as the only known instance of a rat jumping onboard a sinking ship…). IMO one reason he did not was that he knew the sitting VPOTUS was so despised by the Democrats that they would never vote to impeach & remove Tricky Dick if it meant putting that lamebrain SOB in the White House. Agnew was, in effect, Nixon’s “human shield.” **

    For USAtty George Beall (pronounced “bell”), member of a respectable family of MD Republican politicians (they existed in those days!) including one former & one then-sitting U. S. Senator, the prospect of a convicted felon ascending to the Oval Office was too horrible to contemplate – so he acted to prevent it. Wisely, as it turned out.

    ** I also believe that the nomination of Gerald Ford to succeed Agnew as VPOTUS under the provisions of the 25th Amendment served the same purpose. While in fact Congress nearly unanimously wanted their longtime colleague for the position, I believe that in Nixon’s mind, no one in their right mind would seriously vote to replace him with the amiable but bumbling Ford. Wrongly, as it turned out.

  173. 173.

    lgerard

    Agnew was still collecting bribes when he was VP

    I remember he also wrote some best selling spy novel after he resigned, which was a pretty strange development.

  174. 174.

    J R in WV

    @Betty Cracker:

    That’s fascinating material… I’m surprised it isn’t bigger headlines even though it’s older news. The age of it is part of the proof, after all. Needs to go down hard, life in prison.

    Never see the sun again without stripes from the bars!

  176. 176.

    The Moar You Know

    I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what a “temporary security clearance” is

    @Cheryl Rofer: it’s called an “interim” clearance, no different than a regular clearance, just means they haven’t finished your investigation but they don’t see any obvious red flags. There aren’t enough investigators to do them in any sort of timely fashion.

    I suspect the reason for Kushner’s being temporary is different.

  177. 177.

    J R in WV

    @debbie:

    DUH! Fisherman. I’m a night owl, more likely to be up a 2-3 am watching meteorites than up before dawn to go fishing!!! DUH:!!!

    And it was right there in his title, too… glad I’m no longer in charge of a multi-million dollar budget for software development, huh?!!

  179. 179.

    frosty

    @Uncle Cosmo: I lived through it too, raised in PA, but on the other coast for Watergate. I’ve got the book somewhere in the house in a box with some others. Interesting times, sorry that we’re living through the same thing (but worse) again.

  181. 181.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Brachiator:

    I had no idea that Agnew had been seen as a good, reasonably honest choice.

    Agnew had been elected Executive of then-heavily-Democratic Baltimore County in 1962 when the Democrats were bickering among themselves; by 1966 the Party had buried the hatchet & he had no shot at re-election, so he ran for & won the GOP nomination for Governor.

    Meantime 3 significant candidates vied for the Democratic nomination to replace term-limited Democratic Governor Tawes. In the middle, sitting Attorney General Tom Finan. To his left, Congressman-at-Large* Carlton Sickles. And to the (far) right, paving contractor (& perennial candidate for whatever office he thought he might win) George P. Mahoney, who picked up where George C. Wallace had left off in 1964** & ran a dogwhistles-loud-as-air-raid-sirens racist campaign (slogan: “Your home is your castle – protect it!”).

    Finan & Sickles split the sane-Democratic vote; Mahoney got the knuckledragging mouthbreathers & won the nomination. At which point everyone in MD left of Genghis Khan turned to Agnew, at the time a moderate Republican*** & yooooge fanboi of NY Governor Nelson Rockefeller who buried Mahoney in the general election.

    —-
    * MD received an 8th congressional seat as a result of the 1960 Census, but did not redraw its CDs until after the 1964 election; meantime the additional Congresscritter was elected statewide, or “at large”. Sickles was twice elected “at large” but would have had to run in a smaller district in 1966; with statewide name recognition, he opted for the gubernatorial nomination.

    ** In the 1964 MD Democratic Presidential primary, Alabama Governor George Corley “Segregation Forever!” Wallace received 43% of the vote vs 53% for LBJ’s designated stand-in, US Senator Daniel Brewster. Border state, former slave state, held in the Union by force of arms during the Civil War, but still…yeesh.

    *** Agnew’s turn to the Dork Side of the Farce dates from spring 1968, when he called a meeting of African-American community leaders in the wake of the riots in Baltimore following MLK’s assassination. They expected him to ask for their advice & recommendations; instead he lambasted them for failing to restrain “their people.”

  182. 182.

    Barbara

    @J R in WV: Seventh grade science experiment: Why does jello not set when you try to put fresh pineapple in it but it does set when you use canned pineapple? There is an enzyme that eats whatever it is that makes jello set (or used to make it set — probably a protein — who knows what jello includes these days).

  183. 183.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @lgerard: Yeah, well, hark thee back to that old Frankie Laine song, “Ghostwriters In Disguise”. It ain’t just Trumpolini who’s used his name & not much else to sell a lot of books… ;^)

    He also lobbied for the Saudis IIRC.

  184. 184.

    Suzanne

    @satby:

    I don’t think anyone really hates him personally as much as hates the nepotism and avarice he represents.

    I personally hate Ralph Lauren of Arabia with an unholy fire. Fuck his sniveling, entitled ass with a thousand rusty, spiky, acid-tipped dicks.

  185. 185.

    wenchacha

    @satby: satby, how kind! I will share with pleasure. Thanks for your interest. She will be doing craft fairs the next few weekends in different California venues, including LA.

    harumobakery.com

  186. 186.

    BC in Illinois

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    At which point everyone in MD left of Genghis Khan turned to Agnew, at the time a moderate Republican

    Yeah, that’s how I remember it, looking on as a teenager from Montgomery County.

    I remember in ’64 when Wallace did so well in the primary. My Jr High English teacher, who enjoyed her status as a 20-something southern belle from somewhere further south (GA? SC?) [and who received in return the admiration of every 15-yr-old boy in the class] was livid. Someone made a wisecrack about Wallace and she — in cold anger — said that the people of Maryland had been taken in “by a southern bull-thrower.” I had never before seen a teacher be so mad and so political in the classroom.

  187. 187.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @J R in WV:

    The 25th Amendment only provides a method for removing a President…

    Technically true I guess, but in practice not really. The 25th provides a mechanism for transferring Presidential authority to whoever is next in the line of succession when POTUS is unable to discharge the duties of office. The transfer is clearly intended to be agreed to by POTUS him/herself to preserve a clear chain of command as a temporary expedient, e.g., when POTUS is undergoing surgery requiring general anesthesia.

    Review the 25th Amendment’s procedure for continuing the “Acting Presidency” for any length of time against the wishes of the sitting POTUS. The amendment is (IMO deliberately) structured to require majorities as large or larger (2/3 in both Houses of Congress) to continue the “Acting Presidency” than to impeach & remove the sitting POTUS for good.

    TL;DR version: The 25th is simply not designed for use as a permanent solution – that’s already provided for in the Constitution.

  188. 188.

    Gelfling 545

    @Uncle Cosmo: I was given to understand at the time (yes, I’m THAT old) that his unsavoriness was seen as an advantage by Nixon as a hedge against impeachment.

  189. 189.

    J R in WV

    @Barbara:

    Yeah, I have never done a jello desert – so far. I guess lots of cooks knew what I was doing wasn’t gonna work. But that pineapple smelled SO GOOD at the grocery store, all ripe. So inspired I went on to work extra hard on an already complicated cake recipe. Beat first batch for exactly 1:30 minutes, then add 1/3 of egg mixture and beat for 20 more seconds, repeat 3 times.

    Cutting up a pineapple, exp one that’s a little irregular in shape, is time consuming difficult knife work. A pineapple coring gadget wouldn’t have worked well as it was conical rather than cylindrical, probably why it was left on the table there for sucker to buy. Me, that is.

  190. 190.

    J R in WV

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    I can’t disagree with you, because you are correct about the temporary replacement of the president when incapacitated; the topic we were addressing, though, wasn’t the voluntary temporary replacement of a president, but the removal of a vice-president.

    Which isn’t addressed in the 25th amendment. Which also addresses the removal of a president with overwhelming support in the legislature as well as the cabinet. Not likely at all today with irresponsible nitwits in charge everywhere.

  192. 192.

    J R in WV

    @J R in WV:

    Additionally, removing an obviously disabled president via the 25th amendment rather than by impeachment would be much preferable to his supporters, as opposed to a law-breaking thief felon being removed by impeachment as Nixon was nearly removed. Reagan, if his mental problems became more obvious, for example, would deserve to have been removed via the 25th amendment and not impeached.

    Trump, of course, deserves to be impeached and convicted on the same day, even in the same hour, to keep him from mischief between impeachment and conviction.

  193. 193.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @dexwood: You of course remember that in the Bawlmer Merlin of our misspent yoot, the bitterest probate fights were waged over who would inherit the deceased’s Colts season tickets.

    Whenever I meet someone who can’t understand why those of us of an age are still bitter about the Hosses sneaking out on the Mayflowers >30 years ago, I recount the following absofuckinglutely true story:

    After my freshman year at Johns Hopkins my summer job was delivering mail on foot down in the blue-collar rowhouse Baltimore suburb of Dundalk* where I grew up. Eventually via the practice of marginal competence** I was assigned a regular route which included several blocks of 1950s-era brick rowhouses. One was home to a retiree who always seemed to be grooming his small front lawn & who would call out to me, Hey Mr Mailman, what’ve you got for me today? & I’d tell him & then place the goods in the mailbox on the front gate.

    One day (probably around the 3rd of July***) I replied, I’ve got your Social Security check, & you should come get it, because some people had theirs stolen out of their mailboxes last month.**** He replied, I’ll get it when I’m through here, & went back to weeding.

    A couple of weeks later there arrived at my filing case a handful of white 8-/12″x11″ envelopes labeled Baltimore Colts Football Club. I had no clue what they were, then one of the veteran carriers explained: Season tickets (perforated to tear off). One was for Mr Gardener.

    Hey Mr Mailman, he called out from behind his paramour**, what’ve you got for me today?

    This bill, that bill– And your Colts tickets.

    He turned off the mower, came to the gate, took the envelope tenderly into his hands, & disappeared into the house.

    “And that,” I’d conclude, “is what the Colts meant to Baltimore.”

    (Nowadays I can just refer them to Barry Levinson’s ESPN 30-for-30 documentary “The Band That Wouldn’t Die.” Much more eloquent & complete. Even so…)

    ———
    * At the time of my birth, the largest unincorporated (i.e., lacking its own government separate from any larger subdivision) metropolitan area in the USA, population >82,000. Also the nation’s most populous Redneck Refugee Resettlement Region from ~1937 through 1960-something.

    ** I.e., perform just well enough that the hassle of firing you is less (ETA: greater, damnit!) than the aggravation of having to make special provisions for your incompetence. Worked at the time…

    *** SocSecChex, in those days before direct deposit, were always supposed to be delivered on the 3rd of the month or the first mail delivery day thereafter. I nearly got fired once for failing to deliver one on the appointed date – the supervisor all but accused me of stealing it. (It had jammed in the filing case & been left behind. When we found it I was ordered to drive it IMMEDIATELY to the recipient & apologize profusely.)

    **** Truth (see *** above).

    /TMI

  197. 197.

    SgrAstar

    @Matt McIrvin: respectfully disagree. The repub mega donors want one thing, and one thing only: full estate tax repeal. When they get that, trump is totally expendable. They won’t lift a finger to protect him, and neither will their fully bought-and-paid-for lackeys in Congress. trump doesn’t realize it but his continued residence in the WH is dependent on the good will of some very malevolent SOBs.
    My 2 €

  199. 199.

    Bill Arnold

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Jared had a fatal accident.

    You mean like Princess Diana, or would it be heart-attack-with-concurrent-head-trauma?
    I think he’ll be fine, if he stays out of prison. (He should probably pay close attention while crossing the street though.) And the Family analogies to Fredo Corleone aren’t close enough.

  200. 200.

    Bill Arnold

    @SgrAstar:

    trump doesn’t realize it but his continued residence in the WH is dependent on the good will of some very malevolent SOBs.

    Yep. You could view[1] the whole Meuller investigation as a slow-motion well-timed disguised coup by said malevolent SOBs and malevolent actors aligned with them (but alignments can change. :-) ).
    [1] I don’t, but some do.

  201. 201.

    dexwood

    @Uncle Cosmo:
    Nice. Thanks. I do remember the season tickets legacy and battles. My father took me to the Colts’ summer camp every August. You could walk out onto the field, mingle with players on the sidelines, get any autograph you wanted. Free. Sorry about the late reply.

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