Tony and Maria Hovater were married this fall. They registered at Target. On their list was a muffin pan, a four-drawer dresser and a pineapple slicer.
[…]It was a weeknight at Applebee’s in Huber Heights, a suburb of Dayton, a few weeks before the wedding…
[….]In Ohio, amid the row crops and rolling hills, the Olive Gardens and Steak ’n Shakes, Mr. Hovater’s presence can make hardly a ripple. He is the Nazi sympathizer next door….
Reader Interactions
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germy
How heartwarming.
MaryRC
I am beyond disgusted with the NYT for this. If the Hovaters’ goal is to normalize Nazism, the NYT has certainly given them a boost with this article. Placidly accepting their tired old Jewish media slogans and Holocaust denials while playing their game of how they’re just a cute young American couple in love, with their pasta and their cats and their tidy little house? How is this any different from the propaganda the Hovaters and their cronies disseminate? This article is a huge victory for Nazis in America.
MobiusKlein
I believe we have moved past the question of “Is punching Nazi’s moral?”, with the solid answer of NO.
Shooting them was ethical for the Greatest Generation, and we should follow their example.
aimai
@MaryRC: Yup. I am floored by the normalization of this asshole. I never, never, never, wish harm on people but I found myself wishing that some enterprising neighbor would do to him what he pretends to believe Hitler didn’t do to the Jews. And fuck his new bride, too.
sharl
Ah, land of my yoot, or at least close to it; I grew up in east Dayton; Huber Heights is a northern suburb, New Carlisle is what I think would be considered an exurb (it’s also to the north). I’m not terribly surprised by this, and I think the Obama years and the subsequent anti-Obama president have “made it OK to be racist” in public; what you had to once be guarded about can now be stated openly. Let that racist freak flag fly!!!1!eleventy!!
I’m with family in Dayton for another day, and I hope to get a walk in this afternoon around the old neighborhood. The last time, I counted a few rebel flags adorning front yard flagpoles, which I don’t recall having seen growing up, even though as a white dude growing up in this overwhelmingly white neighborhood (“classic” white working class, I guess), you certainly heard the racism in casual conversations.
I’ll do another unscientific, half-assed traitor flag count on this afternoon’s walk.
matt
So glad I subscribed to the NYT to stop fascism.
Emma
Wasn’t the NYT one of those newspapers that reassured Americans that Hitler wasn’t such a bad guy? I guess they have decided to try again.
After this, why do you still subscribe?
PhoenixRising
Been looking for the right thread for this story.
Last month my mom needed some medical tests. At the world famous Cleveland Clinic, once you have enough MDs requesting a scan, they find some off-peak time to get you in, so I drove her across one of our 3 most racially segregated cities (the more you know!) to the radiology department.
While we waited, a mom with a young girl patient came into the patients-and-family waiting room. The TV was on Fox, so with the agreement of the mom (who happened to be black) I switched it to ESPN. They weren’t carrying the first home Cavs game live, of course, but they had coverage and the child was interested (she also happened to be black and 5’11” at 11 years old). We didn’t have a lengthy discussion, but there were 3 other white women patients in addition to my mom and myself, all of whom agreed that basketball was more suitable for this child’s environment than the white supremacy channel.
A few minutes went by, patients were called back, patients came in, patients left. An older white man who was accompanying his wife walked in, looked around at who was there–me, the mom and daughter, 2 other white women–and changed the TV back to Fox.
At that moment my mom was called back for her test. When I came back, he was still sitting there and I made a couple of loud comments about how awful it is that people expose themselves to that nonsense and think nothing of inflicting it on others in the area. He was obviously offended, but didn’t respond. I left it there after the mom took her daughter back for her scan.
What should I have done? Can decent people properly respond to the white supremacists among us who are one-time contacts by…
Doing nothing?
Changing the channel back?
Telling them off?
This guy in the NYT story is entirely too comfortable with his racism. He needs to be made uncomfortable, because his is not simply another viewpoint–it’s un-American, vile and should be shunned.
aimai
@PhoenixRising: Yes, you should have told him “we took a vote and changed to a less full on bat shit channel” and then changed it back.
Emma
@PhoenixRising: “Excuse me but we were watching the sports stories.” CLICK.
PhoenixRising
@Emma: Let me clarify that due to the layout of the room I would have had to stand in the manspreading space between his legs to change the channel.
It was a broader question about how all of us can interact more productively with the Proud to be Asshole-Americans among us.
laura
Just regular folks, heartland and all, being proud and not racist, but are working to create a white nation for white people with power inurning to “property owners” not normies or the government, and Hitler really being all chill, but strong in his policies.
And the FNYFT’s being all down with this, and finding it fit to print and making it even closer to conventional wisdom and All American as pumpkin pie.
smintheus
When they say “Have a nice day!” they really mean it. But they don’t speak about tomorrow.
debbie
@MaryRC:
This is why I don’t forgive my family for voting for Trump.
George
A dear older uncle of mine enlisted in the army after he graduated from high school. He was captured in the Alsace in early December 1944 and spent the rest of the war as a prisoner doing forced labor in Germany.
A few years ago I visited Auschwitz and saw the rooms filled with piles of human hair, prosthetic limbs, and so forth.
Which is why, for both deeply personal and also broad moral reasons, I loathe Nazis and anyone who even gives off a whiff of being a Nazi symp. I can’t yet say that they deserve to hang … and yet, given their history and what they hope to achieve, well, why not?
Emma
@PhoenixRising: Ah. That’s a bit different. I would still have said it. Depending on his answer, the response would have been “thank you” or “typical Fox viewer: neither manners nor education” and moved as far away as I could.
Mary G
“The NYT is garbage.”
-Baud
The Tom Friedman PR release of MBS was bad.
Betty Cracker
@PhoenixRising: Good for you for making your feelings known about it. I feel an obligation to push back too.
That Nazi shit-stain featured in the NYT and his stupid wife and their scumbag friends are thrilled that Trumpism has allowed them to slither out from under their rocks. It’s up to decent people to make them scurry back to their hidey holes.
sharl
OT,
A fine new online piece from a magazine for gun nuts – an interview with Dr. Seb Gorka – that is right in Adam’s wheelhouse: Zeroed: Sebastian Gorka
It’s a case of game-recognizes-game for the young testosterone-addled leftie irony dudes I follow on twitter:
MJS
@PhoenixRising: I have no expectations to interact productively with such assholes. They’re to be laughed at like the clowns they are. I’m hopeful they’ll get what’s coming to them, the sooner the better, but otherwise they should be scorned or shunned.
smintheus
@sharl: Speaking of gun nuts, the other day a deer hunter from nearby, who was hunting with a pistol (!) after dark (!) shot a women out walking her dogs. Killed her. He hasn’t been charged yet with a crime.
RSA
Hovater (does anyone else keep reading that “Hatover”?) should live up to his own ideal and stfu.
Baud
@Mary G: That guy is smart.
JR
Worst. Porn. Ever.
Chip Daniels
I read the piece. What bothered me wasn’t the tone of the piece, but that it needed to be written. I wouldn’t attack the NYT for failing to put biting criticism in there- thats not the place of reporting. Just stating the bald obvious truth is.
And attacking him is actually the smaller part of what will win this fight.
They thrive on victimhood after all, either invented or real.
More important is to continually recommit ourselves to solidarity with the targets of hate- those people of color, women, gays, immigrants.
Doug!
@Chip Daniels:
They need to have a dedicated wingnut beat, hire someone like Will Sommer, IMHO
Baud
@smintheus: Unless she was walking in the woods wearing Christmas reindeer antlers, that’s manslaughter at least. Jeez.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@PhoenixRising: What’s most frightening about his switching to FOX is that he’s so hooked that he can’t be away from the channel if he has a chance to watch, even if it means turning away from sports that other people are watching.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
You know, up until now I’ve had a twinge of apprehension about the appropriateness of “Vichy Times'” use here…
Burn it to the ground.
PhoenixRising
@Chip Daniels: Nah, the NYT has an obligation to its readers to point out very clearly that this nutcase builds his vile, abhorrent views against social and political equality for all on a foundation of lies.
“He thinks that the widely accepted estimate of 6 million is ‘overblown'” just isn’t sharp enough. He is WRONG. ‘He chooses to promote lies that justify his racist views’ is closer to an accurate description, but opens the question ‘and why are we helping him?’
This did not need to be written, nor published. It fulfills no legitimate social function to give this screwy racist a platform from which he can promote lies. No one was helped by this article.
sharl
@smintheus: Jeebus.
I’m hoping the cops are taking their time because a thorough investigation is needed, and that they’re doing their best with whatever resources they have, rather than it being one of the more awful explanations that (first) came to my mind, e.g., the killer has a connection to local powers-that-be.
I’m gonna guess that alcohol was involved, though that’s not necessary for a story like this, given the number of armed assholes we have.
I remember a hunter telling me a story about him and his pals being shot at by other hunters despite wearing the usual bright orange vests, and even after shouting out. At which point they shot back in the direction of the source of the fire, because of course. The dude telling me this story came back alive and uninjured, nor put on trial for attempted manslaughter, so I assume everyone survived the encounter.
schrodingers_cat
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Helping install the Putin stooge in the WH by hyping HRC emailz, was not enough?
PhoenixRising
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): What was troubling was his visual assessment of the room as containing no one who he had to account for the preferences of: frail, ill women and children aren’t people he needs to consider, all the more so if they’re not even white and the TV is broadcasting a sport dominated by black people. It was stark.
Brachiator
@PhoenixRising:
I would have asked him to change the channel back, and would have done it myself had he not complied.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@PhoenixRising: I thought of that after I posted. He thought of himself as the only one who mattered in that room.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
Today they have a front-page article about how Russian anti-Putin activists wish we would stop talking about Russian interference in US elections, because it just strengthens Putin. To which I say, well, you can guess what I say.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@schrodingers_cat: No argument about their malign even-the-liberal chickenfucking horseshit, merely an unease about the specific connotations of “Vichy.”
hellslittlestangel
I learned so much from this article. Nazis eat food, and they have feelings! They have so much in common with decent human beings, it’s almost like they’re decent human beings, too.
PhoenixRising
@Brachiator: OK then!
I still think a thread on which we crowdsource our ideas for how to express contempt for the assholes among us, in ways that cause them to notice they are not in fact the majority, would be valuable to many white Juicers who spend time in mostly-white environments (not family or work, which have their own protocols).
Maybe we can do that some other time after all the ‘If I’da been there…’ has been shared.
Baud
@hellslittlestangel: Everybody poops!
Brachiator
@PhoenixRising:
I think I kinda disagree. Some people want to pretend that these people are not out there. They want to pretend that these people do not feel emboldened by Trump.
This stuff is not going away without a fight.
Aleta
@sharl: Especially in NRA-dominated areas, it seems like going hunting together is the perfect crime opportunity for someone who wants to get rid of his son-in-law, father-in-law, former friend, business partner. Every year someone in one of these pair-ups gets wounded, sometimes killed. The NRA is quick to help with early publicity and defense.
Baud
Where are the stories from Weinstein’s point of view?
Chip Daniels
@PhoenixRising:
I think its important to point out and understand that evil never looks evil.
If we could time travel back to 1936 Berlin and hang out with a bunch of Nazis, what would we expect to see?
Horns and fangs?
Nazis were ordinary nice polite people, who were tender fathers and doting mothers. Who also supported a monstrous evil.
Or to put it another way, when we demand that Nazis be portrayed as obviously evil, it gives them a propaganda victory when they can present themselves as normal. Because we have unwitting accepted the idea that normal people can’t be evil.
I’ve actually met some children of actual Nazis soldiers from WWII. They were eager to tell stories of their fathers’ acts of kindness; refusing orders to shoot children or such. What they were really trying to say is that this warm generous loving man who was my father couldn’t possibly be like one of those guys in an Indiana Jones movie.
And they are right, because none of them were.
It is not an exaggeration to say that nice normal sweet-natured kids from Indiana are perfectly capable of supporting and participating in genocide.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@PhoenixRising: I put myself in that situation and realize that guy would make me nervous. He’s behaving aggressively. If I, say, declare we should all vote for which channel we want, I’d be afraid of his reaction. In other place, I’ve gone to the desk and asked them to control the situation.
Brachiator
@zhena gogolia:
I have no idea where it appears in the physical paper, but there is an excellent story about how Tillerson is decimating the State Department. This dovetails nicely with a WaPo story (I think it’s WaPo) about how Sessions is remaking Justice into a nationalistic neo Confederate agency.
A link to the NYT article (pardon the browser problem)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/us/politics/state-department-tillerson.html
hellslittlestangel
@Baud: I don’t know. Is Penthouse Forum still a thing?
schrodingers_cat
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): They aided a man who thinks Nazis are good people to win the Presidential election. A man who has hired Nazis like Miller who have made purging immigrants from the United States a top priority. See for example DACA and TPS revocation.
Edited.
Baud
Now that they’ve checked Nazis off their list, I wonder if the NYT will generously profile Hillary supporters next?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: No. Not even if they are white, working class and religious.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: A bridge too far.
hellslittlestangel
@Chip Daniels: Good points. I hate it when evil people are referred to as “monsters” or “animals.” They’re not animals, they’re people. Really bad people.
Dehumanization is easy, but it is never a good move.
Bill Arnold
@MaryRC:
Huh? I read it as an anthropology piece. Certainly Mr. Hovater’s life will not continue to be the same. He will come to know that there are men in their nineties thinking, to themselves, about killing him violently, e.g. with a bullet, like they killed German Nazis. (And yes, younger people will have similar thoughts about Mr. Hovater.)
From the writer of the original piece, RICHARD FAUSSET,
I Interviewed a White Nationalist and Fascist. What Was I Left With?
(italics mine).
@Doug!:
This would be beautiful. Do any major papers (inside or outside the US) have such a person?
hellslittlestangel
Meanwhile, the Washington Post is helping us understand Trumpistas who think education is for smartypants crybabies. What the fuck is next, brushing your teeth is so vain and elitist?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2017/11/25/elitists-crybabies-and-junky-degrees/
trollhattan
@smintheus:
I’ll guess the reason he will skate is some variation of “Hasn’t he suffered enough already? A second victim won’t help anybody.”
Bet he gets to keep the gun, too.
Tazj
@PhoenixRising: Good for you that you spoke up. I would hope that I would do the same.
Last year, I was called for jury duty and we all had to fill out paper work in a large open area with chairs.The television was on CNN and Trump was on and it was loud. A man got up and asked the people who worked there if he could change the channel, and then asked the room if anyone minded. No one minded, and the channel was changed to Food Network or something like that. What a relief!
You’re right the man that’s in the NYT interview is too comfortable with his racism. He’s also too comfortable with his ignorance and with his life in general. He doesn’t believe that white people have benefited from social welfare programs in the U.S.? What makes him think that life would be wonderful for him and his family under an authoritarian regime?
Bill Arnold
@hellslittlestangel:
Thank you for this.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Brachiator:
Exactly. I would have also called him an asshole and an idiot as I did it for good measure. And then said I’m a REAL American and he’s not. It’s time to flip the script.
Brachiator
@hellslittlestangel:
I always wonder how these people reconcile this with Trump’s bragging about how smart he is and how he and his kids went to the best colleges.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Brachiator:
They don’t. They just ignore it.
Bill Arnold
@Tazj:
Animal Planet and, in a pinch, History Channel also work well as room-consensus Fox or Fox-lite alternatives. I draw the line at House Porn TV though.
smintheus
@Baud: Yes. I don’t understand why he was not arrested immediately. There is no circumstance in which hunting deer after dark is not illegal.
@sharl: Supposedly he is being investigated. But it’s been days without charges being filed.
Chip Daniels
I think part of what makes all this so bizarre is that for anyone of Boomer age or younger, we have never had to actually confront and do battle with actual Nazis.
That is, in our generation, Nazis were so self-evidently evil and bad it was enough to merely expose someone as a Nazi, and the social opprobrium did the work for us.
But as the article points out, now we are facing out and proud Nazis. Like Americans in the 1930s, we actually have to do the hard work, to make the case as to why it is evil, and why it is a threat to all of us, right here and now.
And the people we need to make the case to are the ones they are trying to recruit- average white people whose fears and anxiety about a changing world can be exploited to find a scapegoat.
Steve in the ATL
@Aleta:
What about mother-in-law?
Uh, asking for a friend.
smintheus
@PhoenixRising: Asking questions is often a more powerful way of making a point than making statements or demands. For example…
Steve in the ATL
@Bill Arnold:
Just as much Nazi coverage as Fox News but without the obsequiousness!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Tazj:
Because he thinks he’ll be one of the privlidged few in the regime by virtue of his superior white genes or something. He’s not one of the “normies”. He’s an ignorant fuck who doesn’t understand that under such a regime he wants where few have protected rights practically anyone can be abused by the state security apparatus, even for crimes they didn’t even commit. Simply because they pissed off the wrong person.
The Pale Scot
Don’t be Dummie
Be a Smarty
Come and Join the Nazi Party
Almost considering joining twitlesser just to ask Jerry Seinfeld how he feels about being the go to comedian for the Aryan race.
Chyron HR
@The Pale Scot:
They only watch it for Kramer and O’Brien.
chris
@Brachiator: Take what you need, leave the rest.
hellslittlestangel
@Brachiator: The Orange Better One and his offspring had the grace and class not to actually learn anything.
Steve in the ATL
@hellslittlestangel:
It’s been replaced by Balloon Juice After Dark, in case you missed last night’s thread.
Mike in Pasadena
@smintheus: Where did this happen? I am trying to collect some of these stories but use local papers or news sites for my citation. Thanks
hellslittlestangel
@Steve in the ATL: Oh, right. “Road head.” Old people are so creepy.
SgrAstar
@MaryRC: oh for pete’s sakes. The NYT is not promoting these people in any way. Imho, giving voice to their “ideas” just reveals the rootless shallowness of their convictions. They seem more pathetic than dangerous, which I think is actually the case. YMMV.
hellslittlestangel
@SgrAstar: They seem more pathetic than dangerous …
Nearly every human being on earth from 1933-1945 would like a word with you.
chris
@Mike in Pasadena: This is useful in a horrendous way.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours
If you’re on Reddit see r/GunsAreCool
Radiumgirl
@Chip Daniels: I agree with you. I didn’t read this as promoting this man’s point of view, but reporting on it — rather dispassionately presenting his desire to be normalized and seen as an ordinary guy. It’s not the place of the newspaper to critique him or ridicule him, it’s their job to report that he is out there and this is how he and guys like him think and this is his agenda. Yes, the tone is rather reserved, but I think it was appropriate and your point is well taken that the fascists want to be seen as victims, so to write it with a really snarky tone would have played right into that. I don’t read the article as cheering him on or applauding his position. I really don’t understand how you can read it that way — what the reporter it is doing is providing a real service in revealing how guys like him are out there and what their mentality is. It’s something you need to know and understand. Why does he deserve the attention? Because he’s a threat to our democracy, and the very fact that he is so creepily ordinary makes him even more of a threat. The banality of evil and all that.
Chip Daniels
@SgrAstar:
Pathetic, yes, but I am wary of assuming everyone feels this way.
Racism is the aristocracy of the mediocre, but it lurks inside every one of us.
Every one of us feels at times mediocre and in desperate need of a narrative that tells us that we were destined for greater things if only…And there are always plenty of people waiting around to pounce and fill in the “if only…”
Edited to add: I don’t suppose it helps that I am reading a book on the Battle of Stalingrad at the moment, and its distressing to see so many parallel sentiments, on both the part of Nazis and Russians.
The Lodger
@Chip Daniels: We Boomers grew up watching a lot of World War II TV shows – Combat, Rat Patrol, even McHale’s Navy, FFS. There were plenty of opportunities to see Nazis as bad guys, and our dads were always there to remind us if we didn’t get the message. I wonder why WWII historical re-enactment isn’t a thing. I’d love to see someone dressed in Army OD pull up next to a group of marching Nazis with a jeep-mounted machine gun and a couple belts of blanks. All in good fun, of course.
Radiumgirl
@The Lodger: Actually WWII historical re-enactment is a thing. Have a nephew who’s involved in it — as well as WWI re-enactments.
The Lodger
@Radiumgirl: I didn’t know that. Where do they stage their events?
The Pale Scot
@Chyron HR: I think they’re Newman fans
Mike in NC
@The Lodger: Actually, WWII re-enactment is pretty big both here and in Europe. The 1994 commemoration of the Normandy landings drew hundreds of them when my Navy Reserve unit from Baltimore participated at Fort Story, VA.
Radiumgirl
@The Lodger: They’ve done re-enactments at airshows in Pa. — think they might have done some encampments (if you call them that) at Indiantown Gap. Central Pa.
Mike in Pasadena
@chris: Thanks for the reference. My older brother tried to tell me in September, 2016, that Hillary killed Vince Foster because he had a gunshot wound in his hand. Needless to say, he had Faux News on at the time. I told him about the daily news stories of gun owners shooting their genitals, their foreheads, their neighbors, their own kids, etc and always by accident and how often no charges are brought because they are already suffering. “Well, she sure seems to be around when people are killed,” he replied. I rolled my eyes and left the building. We’re done here, I thought.
woodrowfan
@sharl: I grew up in West Carrollton. The fact that this guy live up north of Dayton didn’t surprise me. go in any direction far enough and it became white and rightwing…
Gelfling 545
@PhoenixRising: I generally tell whoever is in charge of the waiting area that I will be waiting elsewhere because I have no desire to be exposed to that swill. My doctor’s office and my car dealership service dept. no longer have Fox as their default because I’ve complained. My doctor’s practice skews pretty old – hence, me – but I wasn’t having it. i told them to ring my cell, I’d be in the car. They changed the channel.
woodrowfan
@Gelfling 545: One reason why I like my doctor’s, and my dentist is that they have no TV is the waiting room!!!!!!
Steve in the ATL
@Gelfling 545: @woodrowfan: I complained vociferously to my doctor every visit; they finally changed fox news to HGTV. I still complain that there is TV at all in the waiting room–what’s wrong with peace and quiet?
ETA: I withdraw my earlier statement about not being old. Clearly I am.
CapnMubbers
The Weather Channel––neutral, and with closed captioning, can be very quiet without losing content.
zhena gogolia
@The Pale Scot:
I was about to see if anyone had picked up on the title. “We’re moving at a faster pace . . .”
bemused
@Gelfling 545:
It only makes sense to keep news channels off the tv in waiting rooms anywhere not only in clinics People get crabby no matter what political views they have. A smart shop owner wouldn’t want a customer have to listen to media crap while waiting to hear how bad the damage is on your brand new vehicle which had to be towed in after a deer jumped in front of it.
chris
@Mike in Pasadena: You’re welcome. The one that scares me the most is this:
https://massshootingtracker.org/
Every day! More than once a day! I’m Canadian and do not understand at all.
smintheus
@Mike in Pasadena: Happened in Sherman, NY. Here’s a link: http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/22/hunter-fatally-shoots-woman-walking-her-dogs-in-chautauqua-county-deputies-say/
delk
My doctor’s office plays music/concert DVDs. Last visit was an Adele concert.
zhena gogolia
@bemused:
My car guy always has it tuned to Hoda and Kathie Lee, which isn’t too bad.
buckeye666
@sharl:
delurking here. I’ve lived in East Dayton for a long time now, and am currently in a more liberal neighborhood. But there are plenty of people in the old neighborhood who I have no doubt share his views. And he’s got plenty of fellow travellers in Huber and New Carlisle and the exurbs and rural areas around Dayton.
I hate that the NYT seems to be normalizing the guy, but in many ways he isn’t out of the norm. At all.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I did Nazi this coming.
opiejeanne
@Gelfling 545: The McDonald’s here decided that to just change the channel to CNN wasn’t enough so they took the tv down. It is gone now and no one misses it.
opiejeanne
@Steve in the ATL: I turned off the
sound of “soothing music” tv show with stills of various vacation places when I was in a hospital waiting room. I was reading a book and could not concentrate at all until I turned the sound off.
I’m 67 and embrace my oldness.
opiejeanne
@bemused: That always puzzled me about our favorite garage: it was owned by a Mexican family, the workers were all Mexican (as opposed to generic Hispanic). Why would they have Fox News on the tv in the waiting room? Yes, it was Anaheim but still.
brettvk
@smintheus: I’ll be surprised if the killer doesn’t get off with a minimal fine for hunting after sunset. Hope the woman’s family sues him into poverty, the schmuck. And why in the name of Diana is it legal to try to kill a deer with a handgun? Sounds like a way to torture an animal, not an honest way to put venison on the table.
moops
@opiejeanne: Because it’s “news” but plays in your head like “entertainment”. Loud assertive Men, big-boobed Women, lots of colors, lots of technical events to hold the attention, but if you drift into something else, you can drift back and not have missed anything, since they will repeat themselves. It never does anything on screen requiring real thought, and never anything dealing with empathy. Simpler emotions only. Fear, Anger, Joy, etc. No guilt, or shame, or wonder.
They somehow end up “informed” at the end of the day, since all the Fox News talking points are there available in your head. It’s a mile wide and an inch deep. If you actually call them out on anything it becomes a whirlwind of whataboutism and distraction techniques, or attempts to change the topic.
Bill Arnold
@brettvk:
Well, people do bowhunt. Though bows are safer because arrows are slower. In some places bowhunting is all that is allowed, because bullets travel too far. People will ask landowners if they can hunt (set up a tree blind), and many/most landowners will say yes, because they hate deer overpopulation (lack of predation[1]) which results in gardens/shrubs/small trees being eaten.
[1] Coyotes (Eastern==bigger) are starting to move into my area past decade or two, but haven’t noticeably affected the deer population yet. I have to scare a coyote away occasionally; it is fun to method-act a much larger predator. Once had a coyote make eye contact with me for 2 seconds (50 meters away, deep-growled at it), then reverse course and walk rapidly back the way it came.
Brachiator
@Bill Arnold:
While driving, a coyote crossed my path, stopped, looked at me as if to say, “What the fuck you looking at,” then continue on its way.
sharl
@buckeye666: Thanks for delurking! And yeah, I agree with everything you said. I love my Dad, but despite that and his age (85), I’m still pushing back on some of his Trumpishness while I’m staying with him this weekend. Fortunately he’s not the super hard core MAGA chud some people are afflicted with as their kinfolk. Still, we can never be too old to be unable to defend the stuff that comes out of our mouths (obvious exceptions for senility and similar behavioral disabilities).
I never did make it to my neighborhood walk today to do the traitor flag count. Hope to do that tomorrow before I head back home.
Steve in the ATL
@Bill Arnold:
Indeed. I had a case on deer overpopulation go all the way to the Georgia Supreme Court!
AMM
.@Brachiator:
I often wonder about that too. FWIW, Frank Antenori, the Trump supporter prominently featured in the article, explains it thusly:
“Even though Trump boasts of his Ivy League degree from the University of Pennsylvania, Antenori said he “had a different air about him.” Unlike Obama, Trump has not emphasized the importance of Americans going to college.”
Duane
@Aleta: You don’t have to go hunting together to get rid of someone.
I’ve been told.
BruceJ
@AMM: Frank Antenori is an ass. While he was in the Lege, he tried to bring back incandescent bulbs because “those awful fluorescents make him pick out socks of different colors all the time”. A grown-ass man who can’t even properly store his socks has no goddamn business in the Legislature. Fortunately the voters agreed and bounced his sorry butt out of office.
Duane
@The Lodger: My mother gave me a good lecture while I watched Hogan’s Heroes. The gist being there’s nothing funny about Nazis.
Ithink
#SorryNotSorry but I absolutely hate these F***-ING people and wish them NOTHIMG bit a s***-tastic existence…
I absolutely hate saying THAT because I consider myself a lifelong esoteric Christian…
I’m getting beyond sick of the otherwise respectable-most-of-the-time New York Times profiling these motherf***-ERS w/out showing them in at least a marginally more critical light. Its worse enough having proto-fascists @ the ultimate head of the White House!
I guess I should be grateful as a person of color that these people get the media attention acknowledgement that they exist to all the naysayers that racism no longer exists but almost any profiled publicity is GREAT publicity for them these days. God help us all!
My Truth Hurts
@hellslittlestangel:
That Washington Post piece, my god what a resentful, mean spirited, angry little man that guy is. Why the fuck are we listening to people who do nothing but complain and see the world as nothing but cartoon stereotypes? Fuck this guy and everyone like him. Are there valid criticisms to modern education? Definitely. This guy, however, doesn’t make any. He’s just angry and resentful at people for being different than him.