BREAKING: Senate passes GOP tax bill 51-49 along party lines with just one Republican, Sen. Bob Corker, voting against it. pic.twitter.com/pEo2KHLfnJ
— NBC News (@NBCNews) December 2, 2017
The saucer that cools the coffee has turned into the septic tank that stores the swill.
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) December 2, 2017
Trying to decide whether Republicans know they're going to lose their majority in Congress next year and just don't care, or are literally insane.
— Matt McDermott (@mattmfm) December 2, 2017
I keep envsioning a US Marshal with handcuffs and Mitch McConnell with the tax bill racing each other through the WH to see who can get to Trump first.
— Better Than Ezra Klein (@Yeggo) December 1, 2017
The Get-Him-The-Wealth-Transfer-Bill-Before-He-Goes-Down-For-Treason Party.
— Oliver Griswold (@originalgriz) December 1, 2017
Schumer: "In my long career in politics, I have not seen a more regressive piece of legislation, so devoid of rationale, so ill-suited for the conditions of the country."
Watch more: https://t.co/wqHVaMdj4p pic.twitter.com/6BLypDEGqP
— MSNBC (@MSNBC) December 2, 2017
This tax bill is so predatory if it lived in Alabama it'd be banned from The Gadsden Mall #TaxScamBill https://t.co/7z5T0cFwpo
— Cliff Schecter (@cliffschecter) December 2, 2017
I've always been skeptical of JK Galbraith's argument that the tax cuts of the 1920s caused the Great Depression, but we are about to do an exact replay and will find out once and for all.
— Bruce Bartlett (@BruceBartlett) December 1, 2017
One tiny positive note:
Apparently the backdoor "personhood" provision didn't make it.
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) December 2, 2017
You know what I’m going to do? Take the anger I feel at this atrocious tax bill and turn it into vengeance for 2018. They will try to distract from this bill. Remind your friends and family what this bill does early and often.
— Neera Tanden???? (@neeratanden) December 1, 2017
rikyrah
This is who they are.
As a poster here says:
‘ Wipe them out. All of them. ‘
Major Major Major Major
I had a feeling this one was going to pass all week, in the same way that I didn’t have that feeling about the ACA repeal.
But this can be undone with a vengeance, and before the working-class increases hit.
jl
Just stroll out into the countryside tonight with a sigh, look up at the beautiful black velvet sky, and imagine every star you see is a twinkle in filthy rich GOP donors eye.
Major Major Major Major
The Onion’s headline: GOP Leaders Celebrate Passing Point of No Return
Urlhix
Scum. And the fools out here in rural GA have no idea what just happened. I’ve tried to reason with these folks (AL and GA) for over 30 years, I’m done. Reap what you sow, morons.
BerkeleyMom
I watched the vote out here in CA and called McCain, Flake and Collins’ offices and left scathing messages. It won’t help but it made me feel a little better. I did call and thank Corker though he knew this stinker would pass without his vote. What a disgrace.
Betty Cracker
Well, stopping it was always a long shot. Now our job is to hang this shitty piece of legislation around their necks like a flaming tire.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: I forget who was making the point. Maybe Krugman, or Marshall or DeLong, but they really don’t know what is in it. The GOPers have no clue. The thing was already rotten and had no time to ‘cure’, did it? So besides making a mockery or following any kind of procedure at all, they simply have no clue what is in it. So there will be endless conflicts and tangles. And those will stay if the thing is simply voted through the House.
People were pissed about Obamacare signup web sites malfunctioning. That was bad, Wonder what people will think about doing their taxed over next three years. But no problem, Trump will just blame the Democrats and everyone will believe him.
Boussinesque
I never used to be this much of an “eat the rich” guy, but the last decade (and this year in particular) has made me so sick of these parasites…how do we even begin to get back all the wealth that they’ve stolen from the country? Even if we pass massive tax increases once we get control of the government back, what’s to keep them from just fleeing with the money to some other country they can buy the government of?
Major Major Major Major
My friends have all been virtue signaling by talking about the ways they’re going to “donate their trump tax cuts”, and I’m like, bitch, this is going in the plane tickets and bullets fund
Emerald
@Major Major Major Major:
But this can be undone with a vengeance, and before the working-class increases hit.
DonkeyKong
You maniacs! You Blew it up Awwwwwwrgh! Damn you! Damn you to Hell!
Major Major Major Major
@Emerald:
Well, you see, presidential elections are held every four years, and the worst of it doesn’t kick in for nine.
BlueDWarrior
@Emerald: you undo it when you get there Presidency and majorities again.
Same as whenever one Congress passes bad legislation before.
Raven Onthill
I wrote this back in July about the ACA repeal which failed. Seems that it was just a bit early
Major Major Major Major
@BlueDWarrior: This is really not a difficult concept, but several people here have vocally had a problem with it today.
NotMax
December 2, a date which will live in infamy.
The day the Senate voted to secede from reality.
The phrase ‘moderate Republican’ is forthwith banished from any use, by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Origuy
One tiny bright spot, the giveaway to Hillsdale College was taken out.
Mnemosyne
My injured knee was bothering me all fucking day, and this news did not help my mood any. Fuck these fucking assholes.
In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, I hope they realize that this. means. war.
opiejeanne
@NotMax: Fuck Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski and John McCain and Flake and all the rest of those fuckers pretending to be sane, moderate Republicans.
And fuck Susan Sarandon and the Bros for what they have wrought.
Emerald
@Major Major Major Major:
Sure enough Democrats are going to be allowed to vote? They’ve got the suppression laws already established and are appointing more judges to uphold them every day.
And plus, might I point out, that we won the last election by 2.1%, which is a pretty clear and decisive victory, but our candidate was not allowed to assume the presidency. Some of think that’s the third time that’s happened since 2000.
I’m not at all convinced they won’t do it again, and get away with it again. Yeah, I’m that cynical. Or depressed. Or whatever.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
All the Dems voted against it because they’re Neoliberal sellouts.
Susie Collins voted for it cause she’s a moderate and deficit hawk, who painfully worries about passing debt to our grandchildren.
opiejeanne
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: She’s worried she won’t pass enough debt to them?
rlchina 大芒果
time to stock up on pitchforks, torches, and rails….
Ithink
@NotMax:
Agreed! Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins & even John F***-ing McCain are lower than pond scum now; I’m sorry I ever gave any of them the benefit of the doubt previously. I’ll try to never allow it to happen again!
Major Major Major Major
@Emerald:
Enough Democrats were allowed to vote last time. Enough of them chose not to. This isn’t a situation where we’re at full turnout except among the disenfranchised.
No, our candidate won the popular vote by 2.1%, which is not how you win a presidential election in America.
There are obstacles to overcome, but they’re considerably less apocalyptic than you’re making them sound.
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: Oh God, It’s nearly one ayem and I’m so wound up I am not sleepy. I can’t deal with the total Eeyores tonight, either. No patience.
Yes, it’s awful but we can’t let that stop us; we need to take them all down ASAP.
Some Dude
I just want the press all over the details of this bill like they were with ‘her emails’, but I know it won’t happen.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: I drew a vampire and am now reading a murder mystery.
Duane
Trump ran for President so he could get his taxes reduced. He’s about to complete the conjob of all time.
BlueDWarrior
@opiejeanne: I honestly believe that some people wallow openly in their despair to convince themselves that it really doesn’t matter.
I can’t do it anymore, myself. I almost made myself ill with stress from Bush’s re elect. I promised myself to not do that again.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
McCain is a major dickbag.
In 2001 he voted against the Bush tax cuts saying it cost too much. This is far worst, and it didn’t go through his precious regular order, yet he still voted for it.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
The
butlerSenate did it.Now am suddenly sitting here idly contemplating how a Bizarro vampire would work.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Jeff Flake is a comedian.
Betty Cracker
@Emerald: In a midday post yesterday, Doug observed that we’re in the middle of a political crisis and asked what we were doing as individuals to take advantage of that to change things. Here was my answer:
I get the depression, I really do. But it’s important to choose hope.
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: Nice. I have the latest Harry Bosch and I think I’ll read that until I fall asleep.
I started writing a book, I have 50,000+ words and I think it’s going to take another 20k-30k to finish but I don’t think I can write right now. Better to read.
I think I saw that you’d finished your book and I’m happy for you. It was a great idea and I really want to know how the story ends. Will you be looking for a publisher or will you self-publish?
patrick II
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
McCain’s wife owns one of the largest beer distributerships in the country. The excise tax on beer was lowered. His legacy, f*&k the poor, my wife and daughter will make more money.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: Gonna try traditional publishing, probably look at local shops.
@NotMax:
Not following.
opiejeanne
@BlueDWarrior: I spent the 9th of November and several days after that wanting to curl into the fetal position and stay that way.
I’ve been researching the Civil War, what they ate, what slang they used, what they wore (Zouaves for the best uniform ever!), reading their letters and the reports by various captains, colonels and generals. It helps to focus the mind on something other than politics. Weather conditions on certain dates, what hymns were in use, what songs did the army sing, etc.
I want to thank whoever it was that mentioned the 1859 phenomenon known as the Carrington Event. It fits exactly into the story I’m writing.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
Welp, there it is then. You know what the really disheartening part about this is? This is only phase 1. Phase 2 is when they come for Medicare and Social Security and student loans and veterans because deficits. Watching how the flacks and diehards defend THAT will be quite a display, and I hope that the battle over those things doesn’t get a chance to develop in this Congress. The suffering is bad enough now, but stop fighting and it will get so much worse. Our greatest ally right now is the fundraising and campaign cycle chewing into the legislative calendar. The less these evil fucks manage to accomplish, the less will have to be undone or re-done later, especially the way the judiciary is changing.
Duane
These rats called their bill… And Jobs Act.
That must mean the jobs their donors provide when they lose their current ones.
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: Please let me know how you proceed with the publishing. I will have about a year’s worth of rewriting before I even show it to an editor, several big chunks will go in the trash, I need to figure out how to write a battle scene, I have to resolve some conflicts in the story, and I just realized that I have three somewhat major characters whose names are very similar. I don’t know how to write dialog but some of my characters seem to have strong opinions and I let them speak (it’s weird when that happens) but I will need to go back and see if it works or if they’re just soliloquizing. .
Ladyraxterinok
@NotMax: 12.12.2000 – W sElected 5to4; 12.2.2017 – GOP tax bill completes destruction of middle-class
Like 12.7.1941….Days that will live in infamy
opiejeanne
@Comrade Nimrod Humperdink: Today they referred to Social Security and Medicare as Welfare Entitlements. They are NOT welfare, and an entitlement is something that is owed to you. As if paying into those funds all those years meant you’d get something back. One of the idiots, can’t remember which one but maybe Paul Ryan referred to SS as the greatest driver of the national debt.
There was no pushback on any of this that I saw.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: Well, begin where you are and such as you are.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
No connection to anything else. Solely a concept that popped unbidden into the skull when you mentioned vampires.
JanieM
@opiejeanne: @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: She’s got kids, so no grandchildren to give a fnck about. It’s ours that will pay for it.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: Gotcha.
Elizabelle
Republicans own this.
And our major media is learning. They made it clear: Republican bill, party line vote, if you read further you learn NO Democrats voted for this. None.
Good on the WaPost (they were shrillest), the FTF NY Times, and Joe Manchin.
We should call Manchin and other red staters and thank them for standing firm.
JanieM
Correcting myself (too late for an ETA): she’s got “no” kids.
That’s what I get for being up at 4:38 a.m.
Elizabelle
@Duane: Trump and his grifting crew will have legal bills up the wazoo. Tanking the brand, too.
We have to see that this is the most pyrrhic of victories.
NotMax
@opiejeanne
Ryan’s statement carries a weight of wrong sufficient to sink it to the asthenosphere in any rational universe.
Mary G
Fuck.
I typed that and the tablet suggested ‘cancer’ for the next word. Not wrong; these people are cancer in human form.
NotMax
Totally OT (may be snoozing when morning thread arrives).
4 p.m. today, TCM – Kind Hearts and Coronets.
If you’ve never seen it, remedy that and savor Alec Guinness times nine. If familiar with it, no need to further recommend.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: Kill em all, Mammon will know his own.
Duane
@Elizabelle: I agree, but Trump won’t care. His taxes are lowered, that was his goal. Resignation, impeachment, destruction of his party doesn’t matter, so long as he makes money.
TenguPhule
@Boussinesque:
That’s why we have a CIA and a huge military.
Dave
@Duane: That’s not true. Trump cares far more about being perceived as a winner and not a loser. Money is very far behind that.
GregB
The most disgusting part is that this is a life jacket to Trump as the anchor he was hanging on to was dragging him down.
Now he will be crowing and feeling empowered.
Sab
Just saying, that I hate this bill and yet I will make out like a bandit.
I am not a parent. I am 63 and I am a step-parent. My house is paid for. This bill is the anti-grandchildren-bill-because-it’s-too expensive-to-have-the-little-buggers–bill.
Hopefully my pro-life Republican niece will finally notice that they are attacking her family. She just got a doubled standard deduction, but she lost a lot losing the SALT deduction and the mortgage interest deduction, plus she lost four dependents exemptions for her spawn plus two for herself and her husband (she’s is pro-life so she breeds like a rabbit)(her kids are worth 4 thousand apiece for the 4 kids plus 8 thousand for the 2 parents.)
This is an ill-advised middle-of-the night post, but I am so frustrated with allegedly intelligent relatives going along with policies that phuck them because somehow their tribe demands it.
The Republican base are just tribal idiots.
Betty Cracker
@Dave: I agree. Trump is a malignant narcissist driven by two impulses: receive praise and avoid shame. His greed is incidental. His enormous self-regard is a rickety tower constructed to camouflage the bottomless pit of insecurity at the core of his being. If he were driven from office in disgrace, he would never recover from the blow to his ego.
Duane
@Dave: For Trump, money is winning. What other people think doesn’t matter to him.
Applejinx
Treat it as accelerationism. Radicalize.
How do you like your billionaires and your Congress made up all of millionaires now?
Chyron HR
@Applejinx:
How do you like your Bernie or Bust (specifically the latter) now?
Aleta
It continues to stun me (each time taking a different form),
how the amplitude of opposition and the number of origin points that conventionally had influence make no difference. This week, the sum of the CBO , the AMA, adoption organizations, children’s welfare, the belief in education, thousands of religious leaders organizing and protesting in towns, christians calling it profoundly unchristian. The proof that Sec Tr mchin lied, then didn’t even bother to produce fake model results. (It’s so much like the determination to invade Iraq while cutting taxes and inviting war profiteering.) Shorter version is what everyone says: they have no shame. Social responsibility helped win WW2 but isn’t working for this one.
It’s weird enough that we’ve become hardened to the sight of economists, scientists, academic specialists and teachers ignored by the GOP so they can go to war, manipulate markets, destroy life and its environment.
The only thing they can hear (the same thing that no Repub could resist tonight) is the sound of money being made or lost. It suggests that cable and internet news coverage won’t be changed by criticism, only by a large enough coordinated blip in the revenue stream. Making jokes and enjoying T and Cruz get demolished on twitter helps me feel better, a lot, but it doesn’t affect the GOP. Only losing money will do that.
Collins has wealthy family and she and they want that bonus. McCain is going to provide for his family after he’s gone, definition of a man. Every senator who voted for this looked at the numbers. I kinda blame the stock market thing of the 90s because everybody wants something crazy and surefire like that to happen again, to them. You have to destroy a lot of little investors to get that, and that’s still OK with them.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker: I would just like to point out the one flaw in your conclusion.
Trump doesn’t have any shame.
Chyron HR
When does this abomination even happen? Are they really going to turn these scribbles into the actual internal revenue code by January 15 (for tax estimates)?
Baud
@Applejinx: The Democratic ones are just fine.
Dave
@Duane: Again I think that’s fundamentally untrue. He cares deeply about what other people think about him being perceived as wealthy is part of that but not the core of it.
As for this bill yeah it’s awful the odds were they were always going to pass it. And it will do damage. And likely we won’t be able to replace it with something better until 2021. And replace bit with something better is the key. We don’t go back you can’t go back you go forward from where you are.
It’s also incredibly unpopular and the manner in which it was passed will strip a few more people of their illussions regarding the state of the GOP. Many more no but every voter adds up. Same with that we are finally seeing organization in support of voting rights and so on. It will take time but it can, not will there are no certainties, happen.
And it sucks that in that interim it will hurt people and often in ways that can’t be undone but still you move forward. Oh and Trump that guy is always miserable closest I’ve seen him to happy is pretending to drive big rigs. He’s not surviving the coming storm with his incredibly frail ego intact.
TenguPhule
@opiejeanne: Paul Ryan’s head on a poster with some mining signs plastered over it.
Out of fucks to give at this point.
Dave
@TenguPhule: Trump feels shame intensley just not in the sense manner you or I do and he goes to great lengths to shore his ego up to avoid that feeling. You fundamentally misunderstand him. His life is a scramble to fill the void and to avoid shame.
TenguPhule
@Chyron HR: One more vote in the House.
ZEGS is claiming he has the votes to pass the Senate version in one go.
Not sure if he does. But its a choice between him lying or the teabaggers lying. So who knows?
But this was our best shot at stopping the madness.
The House is a Freakshow.
Brachiator
Charles Pierce makes an odd claim
That provision is in the House Bill. It could still end up in the final bill after the House and Senate versions are reconciled.
This abomination of a bill has everyone confused.
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: Narcissists fear humiliation, i.e., public shame, above all else. Trump is “shameless” in the sense that he has no compunction about using others for his own ends, etc., but that’s not the same thing as being impervious to disgrace. He’s very acutely attuned to what other people think of him — that’s 100% of what drives him.
ETA: What @Dave said.
Sab
@TenguPhule: “The House is a freakshow”. Sad but true.
TenguPhule
@Dave:
I understand him perfectly.
He is the culmination of every asshole I’ve ever met distilled into a giant mass of greed, anger and lust. He does evil because it gives him pleasure,
he changes himself to match his audience as a survival skill and he recognizes nobody else as human.
Xenos
I used to be the sort of liberal who would give money and support to the ANC. Pretty soon I am going to end up as the sort of liberal who gives money and support to the Mau Mau.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Yes. The worse Dem is better than the best Republican.
Elizabelle
@Applejinx: Fuck off. No Democrat voted for this abomination. Not Manchin. Not Heitkamp.
Not one single Democrat.
Again, I invite you to fuck yourself. With a purity pony.
Brachiator
@Chyron HR:
Fun question. Some news wag predicted that a final bill would not go to Trump until January, but seeing how they rushed this mess through the Senate, I will bet small money that they will try to get this done before they leave for Christmas break.
So, this means mid December.
This not only impacts estimates. Wage earners will have to fill out new Forms W4 for withholding.
Dave
@TenguPhule: If you did then you’d realize that wealth acquisition is secondary to his need to avoid shame and seek praise. Are you under the impression that I find this exculpatory to him? His behavior would be far different if he was driven primarily by wealth.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
When Chuck looks for a spot to eat in the Congressional mess hall (so to speak), does he sit next to Mitch? Will Nancy and Lisa chat with collegiality on the steps of the Senate now? Was this a game changer?
Baud
@West of the Rockies (been a while): No.
JGabriel
@NotMax:
But how will I express my contempt without using the sarcastic, blatantly ironic, phrase: Mainstream Moderate Republicans™.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: Yeah, that’s one of the more brain-dead hot takes I’ve seen this morning, and I’ve been looking at Twitter intermittently since 3 AM, so…
I did see one contender for an even dumber take: a brofessor was bitching about a sign Debbie Stabenow used as a visual aid in her floor speech opposing the bill. The slogan wasn’t nearly punchy enough to suit him.
TenguPhule
@Dave: its not shame. I think this is the point everyone else is confusing with his complete detachment from humanity.
Its all a game to him. A game he must always win because he really believes he can never lose. The people singing his praises are just points on his scoreboard. None of them are real to him, they’re stage props that breathe and move.
Its like a very carefully crafted form of insanity. He really is in his own alternative universe.
The Thin Black Duke
@Elizabelle: Do yourself a favor and pie the dumb motherfucker. He’s a black hole.
TenguPhule
@JGabriel: Republican meat puppets.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
Actually, I think that some single people and some married people without children may see no change or tax increases almost immediately, especially if their income is only from wages.
Baud
@Brachiator: Who knows? They rushed this through. It’ll take several weeks to analyze its real impact.
Elizabelle
@The Thin Black Duke: Apple ? strudel.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Weeks? More like months. 497 pages of hand scribbled bullshit.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Step 1, Government shutdown.
No spending bills. No crossing the aisle. Just middle fingers raised in salute.
Fuck Civility.
Baud
@TenguPhule: The spending bills are our only opportunity to protect DACA.
JGabriel
Betty Cracker:
It still has to go to conference for reconciliation, unless Ryan can get it through the House in its present form. So we might still get another shot at stopping it in the Senate.
I don’t think we’ll have much chance of stopping it at that point, but it’s not quite over yet.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Baud:
How do you play nice with someone who shunned you completely in the crafting of the bill and then lied about it to the press? I couldn’t do it.
My hope is that “our friends on the other side of the aisle” soon learn that their bill was a botulism burrito, and that they’re holding their fat guys in agony are muttering,”I thought it tasted funny….”
Brachiator
@jl:
Don’t think so. The Republicans are happy about this. And they have aligned themselves more closely with Trump.
The story that they are selling is that they have given Trump a victory by passing this bill. And they will celebrate more when the final bill is passed and given to Trump to sign.
(Make a note of who surrounds him when he signs the bill. Make them own it.)
So Trump and Congress have promised that everyone will get a tax cut. They have promised that the economy will grow and that there will be more jobs.
They will not be able to hide if they don’t deliver on their promises. They will not be able to blame the Democrats. They may try, but it won’t work.
Baud
@West of the Rockies (been a while): It’s their job. Performance art helps no one.
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: Read this Mayo Clinic description of narcissistic personality disorder and tell me it doesn’t fit Trump to a goddamned tee.
TenguPhule
@Baud: At this point I think any agreement on DACA would not be worth the paper its printed on as long as Trump and Sessions call the shots and ICE remains a shithole of government.
Baud
@TenguPhule: Bullshit. I’m not throwing those people under the bus just to see our Dems put on a meaningless shoe.
Dave
@Brachiator: Right? That the 35% or so that still support him will blame the Democrats is kinda a no-brainer and even that may be overestimating it since I believe support for this bill was lower but so what? I will never understand people that believe, even knowing they are bullshit, statements as carrying weight with anyone that is reachable. Trump can say it’s the Democrats fault all he wants and too much of the media will report it as he said/she said but it doesn’t mean anyone outside the bubble is going to buy it.
Ohio Mom
@Origuy: I am actually sorry the Hillsdale exemption went down. It would have made a great soundbite, it was a very easy to explain and understand bit of corruption (contrast it with trying to explain pass through income, whatever that is).
Lots of families have members in college other than Hillsdale, and it would have been immediately obvious to them that they got cheated.
Oh well. The least of my regrets about last night.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker: He fits almost all of it. But he has no shame.
Remember this man barged into a charity event, took an actual donor’s seat, took credit for donations HE NEVER MADE and walked back out without a care.
TenguPhule
@Baud: The Republicans have done nothing in good faith. Why do you expect them to start now?
Dave
@TenguPhule: You again misunderstand shame and how he feels it. It dominates him but in a pathological manner the events that would trigger shame for you or me or most others don’t necessarily do so for him but he damn well feels shame.
And when he feels shame it’s so threatening to his sense of self that he reacts by attacking. He will never admit any behavior he engages in is wrong because shame is that powerful for him.
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: The word “shame” has more than one connotation.
Baud
@TenguPhule: I expect our Democratic legislators to fight for good legislation and not engage in performance art that accomplishes nothing.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Baud:
No. Republicans are not doing their job (the will of the people). They’re doing the bidding of their donors. Democratic representatives should hammer that point on TV non-stop.
Baud
@West of the Rockies (been a while): It’s the Dems job to work. Yes, they should also hammer the GOP.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Morning folk, the kid and I finally made the hike up to Mt. Pinos. To combat the gloom, here’s a picture of the snow capped eastern Sierra in the distance*.
*Those mountains are 130 miles from Mt. Pinos.
Brachiator
@Baud:
There are some good tax calculators based on the previous House and Senate versions.
Using sample return data, it’s pretty clear that single people and some married people without kids will be screwed. The tax code skews in favor of families with children and both bills continue this.
There might be some surprises in the hastily written crap that has been added on at the last minute, but the broad outlines of this are pretty clear. Also, we know that a lot of deductions have been taken away.
Tax, financial and accounting sites have a good handle on what this abomination of a bill entails.
It is amazing how moderate income Trump supporters think that he is really going to help them out. But that’s the art of the con.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Baud:
Not sure how treating a contemptible colleague with disdain is performance art.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
I’m not saying Dem members refuse to speak to Rep members.
If your job as camera operator is to train the camera on the person on stage, you do it. But afterwards, if that person on stage is an asshole, you don’t hang out for dinner, drinks and dancing.
Peale
@Brachiator: yep. I’ve been a good single guy. I’ve been paying my mortgage. I give money to charity through automatic payroll deductions. I’ve been contributing to my 401k. I’ve been paying my property taxes. I don’t see how I break even in this bill. I guess it will be fun to find out how much of the value of my place was tied to the property tax and mortgage interest deductions. my guess is that I was just robbed of $20,000 of equity I had in the place.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, it does, but it also leads to more questions, and suggests some horrible possibilities.
Trump has millions of people who admire him and who support what he is doing. His staff and the Republican leadership have become his enablers.
And Trump is one of the most powerful people in the world. He is in sum a narcissist success story who has put himself in the perfect position of power from which he can constantly get positive reinforcement for his worst traits.
So, we know what he is, but we don’t know how to stop him, especially since the very nature of the presidency let’s him insulate himself with people whose job it is to feed his ego and make him happy.
Jack the Second
So I know there’s a 0% chance of Trump not signing this, hell, he may have already done so.
But I wonder what would happen if everyone started tweeting at Trump “Hahaha, you know when you sign this they’re gonna impeach you, they don’t need you any more” and various things to the effect of “Sucker” and “You got played” and “Pence is going to get 3 years in the WH and you won’t even get 1”. Just to see what happens.
evap
I wonder if they took out the provision that graduate students have to pay taxes on the free tuition they receive. I know that those in my institution were lobbying hard against this. If this goes into effect it will decimate PhD programs at expensive private institutions like the one I work at.
What happens now?
Brachiator
@Jack the Second:
He has to wait for the House and Senate to reconcile the two versions of the bill and give him the final law to be signed.
But I like your idea of trying to drain some of the fun out of his legislative “victory.”
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: It’s like a terrifying case study that involves the entire planet! But I don’t think it’ll work out for Trump in the long run. He can’t dwell in the MAGAt bubble full time or forever.
Two-thirds of the country and the vast majority of people on the planet say he’s doing a lousy job. Powerful people defy him. Media figures criticize him. Mueller will keep on investigating him.
And it will drive him nuts because his neediness is insatiable. That’s the nature of his mental illness.
d58826
What follows is a very depressing and downbeat post. So sue me.
American democracy died on Jan. 20th 2009. It was the day Yrtle decided, that rather than being the loyal opposition, he would run a campaign of sabotage of everything that Obama and the voters wanted. Since Obama was popular, occupied the bully pulpit and had a veto pen, Yrtle had to exercise some degree of discretion over the next 8 years. Now that the axis of evil fully controls all levers of power in Washington the need for discretion has disappeared, So we now see the courts being packed with incompetent right wing hacks,. plans to expand the number of judges so they can overwhelm any remaining Obama judges, the Obamacare repeal show and now the tax cut show. Any pretense of adhering to the democratic norms that have guided this country since 1787 are out the window. It is now government of the oligarchs, by the oligarchs and for the oligarchs (sorry Abe).. A victory by Moore on the 12th will demonstrate that a significant portion of the public is entirely satisfied with being kicked to the curb as long as the gays and POC are kicked into the gutter.
At 71 I have mine and will live out the remained of my life in the middle class comfort that we remember from the 1950’s. I just grieve for my 30 something nieces and their kids ranging in age fro 9 months to 18. They will bear the brunt of the poison fruit that the axis of evil is continuing to plant
tobie
@evap: They took out the tax on funded tuition. As far as I know they did not take out the tax on student loan payments, and I believe they kept the tax on university endowments, which will make it tougher for universities to fund low-income students. The bill was meant to hurt higher education and it does…by screwing any lower income person that might want to get a bachelor’s degree or anything beyond that.
No doubt Susan Collins will go on the talk shows this weekend and no doubt not one host will compare her oh-so-anxious statements from 2009 about the haste of the passage of the ACA and the need for CBO scoring with her willingness to scrap all regular order, all committee review, all due deliberation on this tax bill. What I would give for just one talkshow host to confront Collins, Flake, McCain with the hypocrisy and hollowness of their own words.
d58826
@tobie:
Brian Rogers
@opiejeanne:
https://twitter.com/FrankConniff/status/936855720351240192
NotMax
@tobie
So many handwritten alterations that there’s no guarantee additions won’t be sneaked in before it makes its way to the printers.
SFAW
If Tom Perez has his wits about him, one of the things he will make happen — not that he doesn’t already have enough to keep people busy — is to have a website created which, interactively and in “real time,” will calculate for Joe Sixpack “This is how much MORE you are going to pay under the Rethuglican Tax Scam/Crime bill.” It’s not a fall-out-of-bed simple thing, but it shouldn’t be too hard. Users input their approximate income, what state they’re in, a few other key things.
Of course, having an actual idea of what the Crime Bill actually says comes first. But after that …
The Dems wouldn’t even need to ask too many semi-intrusive questions, And, once they get that site going, make it a talking point every fucking day. Along with all the other things they can use to remind the voters — Dem and moron alike — how much the Rethugs are fucking over not just them, but their children and grandchildren, just so the billionaires can get a few million more.
It’s my belief that one of the things driving the moron voters has been the idea that “Well, if they come after the people who have ‘made it,’ they’ll also come after ME when I make it.” Someone need to explain to them that this Crime Bill does its utmost to make sure they NEVER FUCKING MAKE IT.
tobie
@d58826: Today is a dark day. It doesn’t feel quite like the day after the November election but it’s startling to see just how baldly and boldly the entire GOP revealed that their only commitment is to their billionaire backers and how willing they were to stiff the democratic process and stiff working people. Betty Cracker is right, though: we need to convert this anguish into activism. I trained to register voters in MD ages ago and will do so again because this is our best chance. Too much is at stake not to fight. Yes, take a moment to lick wounds and then find a group doing something meaningful to stop this madness. Hang in there. It’s okay to feel bad but don’t give up.
Jack the Second
@Brachiator: During the election someone (the guy who wrote the entry on it?) was saying he didn’t like airchair diagnoses of Trump because he felt it was very important that the definition of “mental illness” includes the qualification “and it interferes with your quality of life”, not just non-conformity to societal baselines. And it’s hard to say that Trump’s narcissism has interfered with his quality of life.
SFAW
@Jack the Second:
After reading this, it may be the first time I’ve seriously considered getting a Twitter account.
SFAW
@Jack the Second:
.
Disclaimer: not a psychiatrist nor other mental health professional, but …
Bullshit re: the “diagnosis”: if you’re schizophrenic, or psychotic, you’re that way whether it interferes with your “quality of life.” And, just because Shitgibbon has enablers who have prevented him from feeling the effects does not mean he is not mentally ill.
Betty Cracker
@Jack the Second: I have no way of knowing this for sure, obviously, but as an amateur student of human nature, I’m convinced Trump’s mental illness has ruined his life. A happy person does not spend his mornings monitoring what people are saying about him and rage-tweeting at critics. A well-balanced person does not spread fascist propaganda to foment hatred against Muslims and immigrants. A secure person does not obsessively whip up rage against retired public servants. Etc. Trump has all the trappings of success for sure, but I think he is one miserable son of a bitch.
bemused
@Brachiator:
There is never enough praise to satisfy a narcissist like trump.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Problem is, Trump is driving US nuts. And he is causing damage to the country and the world. And he just has to make it through two terms as president. Or be voted out of office or removed.
@SFAW:
Actually, NPD is described as a disorder, and this shit verges on pseudo-science.
This stuff comes close to the nuttiness of astrological signs. Obviously, some narcissists are functional and can adapt their “disorder” to their needs. And the Mayo Clinic citation offers no origin, no remedy, no cure for the “disorder” or even provide a clear distinction between a narcissist and a jerk. Nor does understanding Trump provide much help in letting us predict what he might do next as president.
So saying that he is mentally ill does not say much at all. Hell, he is self medicating using the office of the president. Works for him, sucks for us.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
He doesn’t need “forever”; he only needs “until I can launch nukes at North Korea.”
[Note: The above falls into the “dark humour” category, lest some of the sanctimones here start in on the “fuck you for giving up!” bullshit.]
Brachiator
@bemused:
Probably true. That’s probably one of the reasons he has to have his little poliitical rallies so he can bask in the adulation of his core supporters.
But so what? How does understanding Trump’s personality help us?
SFAW
@Brachiator:
And does DSM-V classify disorders as mental illness? Or does it just say: “disorders annoy the fuck out of us, but they’re not mental illness”?
And it’s not clear what “shit” you’re referring to as verging on pseudo-science.
Brachiator
@SFAW:
DSM-V, and the way that people use it to reach shaky conclusions about Trump and other people.
What’s the practical difference between saying that Trump is a narcissist, and saying that Trump is a Sagittarius?
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
This may be true. But he is ruining all OUR lives also. That’s the problem we have to deal with. I want a world where I don’t have to care about or think about Trump.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: I had no idea you were a Scientologist! :)
Here’s the practical difference: If you can understand what drives Trump, you can predict how he’ll react to things. That doesn’t do us nobodies wasting time on an almost top-10K blog much good, but I dare say folks like Putin and Xi Jinping can put that knowledge to great advantage.
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: Agreed. I too find all this arm chair psychoanalysis tiresome. Also, calling a 70 year old man a toddler is an insult to toddlers.
bemused
@Brachiator:
I didn’t say it “helped”.
SFAW
@Brachiator:
Because astrology is disconnected from any semblance of science (other than calendar definitions), whereas psychology and psychiatry are not? Just because YOU think mental health assessments are bullshit doesn’t mean that they are.
Mental health assessments, and the science/studies surrounding them, are not as rigorous (so to speak) as physics, chemistry, etc., because the related phenomena are not as easily discernible or observable, but that doesn’t mean they’re non-existent (both the illnesses and the observable phenomena). And I think some classification have changed over time, with respect what behaviors they include or don’t include. But then again, the world believed the geocentric model before the heliocentric.
SFAW
@Brachiator:
Seconded, thirded, and fourthed. I’m saving the fifth for myself. (Not that the younguns know what a fifth is, of course.)
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: actually it’s useful in training people to quit expecting Trump to react like a normal greedy person. Think of the leopards eating face party “joke”. It’s a problem with getting people to see a danger ahead of them and react in a useful to democracy way. Not getting enough people to understand Trump is a problem. The armchair diagnoses has been better at predicting him than “normal republican” or even greed head or libertarian.
I do think we need to high light Ryan and Mitch more though because they are also abnormal by prior standards and they are actually just as important in a lot of ways to what’s happening.
Steve in the ATL
@Xenos:
This is a quality comment.
Neldob
@Betty Cracker:Yes Yes yes. Like a stolen diamond necklace, which it is. Repubs are stealing our Medicare and Social Security. Thanks for keeping me going BC.
Neldob
@tobie: Write the Damn media who are so reluctant to take responsibility.
Ruckus
@Comrade Nimrod Humperdink:
This bill affects all of us in many bad ways. I’m not sure it’s the worst of it. I know it won’t be for me personally. My life in a couple of years will revolve around SS and the VA. I still haven’t figured out how to survive on what I get from SS and without the VA it will be far worse. There are people right now who are having a hard time, and that’s before this train wreck. What do the rich people think is going to happen when millions upon millions of people figure out that they just got fucked and not in a good way? Angry people is one thing, millions of angry people with absolutely nothing left to lose is an entirely different game.
We had a nation on the road to a better life for all, and the wealthy were still getting exceedingly wealthier. Now we are a nation on the road to uber wealthy and barefoot poor. The only thing that might save them is barefoot poor can’t afford ammunition.