Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Be a wild strawberry.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

They spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

I don’t recall signing up for living in a dystopian sci-fi novel.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

“woke” is the new caravan.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Agonize - Organize / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Nancy STILETTO, Too

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Nancy STILETTO, Too

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Readership capture. Dana Houle, in the Washington Post, “Nancy Pelosi is incredibly underrated”:

… Pelosi has never tried, as Ryan did, to seduce the press, and what she says in public is occasionally convoluted. Her strength is in what she does away from the microphones.

Growing up in a political family, Pelosi learned to balance competing demands, get people enough of what they needed for them to feel satisfied, to keep track of who crossed you, who helped you, and whom to call on to return favors. And she learned to listen and ensure that people know they are heard. Pelosi draws on this experience while serving both her constituencies: San Franciscans, and the Democratic members of Congress she has led since 2003.

Pelosi is a master vote counter — and more than most 20th-century congressional leaders, she has to be. Majorities are narrower, and to pass partisan legislation, or keep a unified opposition, leaders cannot afford to have many members voting against their caucus. When Democrats have been in the minority, she has kept her representatives in check, even as Ryan and his predecessors have had to pull bills from the House floor because they got the whip count wrong.

And when Democrats were in the majority, Pelosi amassed a record that’s all the more impressive given her unpopularity nationally. In 2008, despite favorability ratings around 30 percent and attacks from the left for not defunding the Iraq War, Pelosi led House Democrats to their second straight wave election. Former Republican majority leader Tom DeLay — who knew a thing or two about keeping a caucus together — called her “the most powerful speaker in a generation. She will be able to do anything she wants.” The next two years, she passed nearly all of President Barack Obama’s legislative priorities.

Yes, of course, Pelosi is unpopular. So are Ryan (R-Wis.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). So is Congress. Yet, for some reason, only Pelosi gets blamed for an unpopularity that really stems from disgust with Congress and partisan polarization. Pelosi is not a scorched-earth partisan; indeed, at numerous times in her career she has been criticized for cutting deals, such as on Iraq War appropriations and Obamacare. But she also understands polarization. She sees her public role not as using policy to communicate a common ground to centrist swing voters but to expose differences between Democrats and Republicans…

***********
Apart from honoring our street fighters, what’s on the agenda for the weekend?

Reader Interactions

229Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    What’s on the agenda for the weekend? Freezing rain, sleet, and snow, all of which will add up to not very much. But baby girl is here for the wkend so cookies are on the agenda.

  2. 2.

    PST

    I’m getting a huge kick from how much our pup is enjoying her first taste of deep snow. I walk along the shoveled sidewalk holding my end of the lead and she galumphs through the drift at my side on her end. Playing in the snow is on our agenda.

  3. 3.

    tybee

    60 and fog here. supposed to push low 70’s early afternoon. did have a oyster stalking expedition lined up but the fog may put the kibosh on that. running a boat in thick fog is not fun.

  4. 4.

    NotMax

    Eruption or one-off? Either way, heat increased beneath a volatile situation.

    Israel struck a dozen Syrian and Iranian targets inside Syria on Saturday in “large-scale” raids after an Israeli fighter jet crashed under fire from Syrian air defences in a severe increase in tensions, the military said.

    The confrontation was the most serious between arch foes Israel and Iran since the start of the civil war in Syria in 2011.

    Israel’s raids came after it intercepted what it said was an Iranian drone entering its airspace from Syria, which it labelled an “attack.”

    It marked the first time Israel publicly acknowledged attacking what it identified as Iranian targets in Syria since the war began.
    [snip]
    Israeli forces identified an “Iranian UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle)” launched from Syria and intercepted it in Israeli airspace with a combat helicopter, a statement said.
    [snip]
    [Officials did not say] whether the drone was armed or strictly for reconnaissance, but said: “We know it was on a military mission sent by Iranian military forces.”
    [snip]
    The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based monitor of the seven-year civil war, said the earlier Israeli raids had targeted several military bases in the east of the central province of Homs.

    It said the bases are used by both Iranian and Russian military personnel deployed in support of the regime. Source

  5. 5.

    Amir Khalid

    @PST:
    Not long ago the BBC reported on a viral video of a puppy encountering snow for the first time. It was so adorable.

  6. 6.

    NotMax

    Galápagos in miniature.

    When a hotel on South Korea’s east coast was asked at short notice to host nearly 280 North Korean visitors, the problem wasn’t finding enough rooms.

    It was to learn how not to offend them.

    Within days of the request, the roughly 150 staff of the four-star Inje Speedium Hotel & Resort were attending sessions on North Korean words and manners, one of which was taught by a professor who used to teach defectors from the North.
    [snip]
    “The two Koreas may have the same ethnic background, but have gone totally separate ways for such a long time without barely any interaction, so there can be misunderstandings over trivial things,” he told Reuters.

    A separate one-page cheat sheet provided by Inje Speedium to its staff points out that North Koreans do not use English words like shampoo and conditioner, which are used in the South.

    The North also has words for food and everyday necessities that sound completely different to those used in the South.

    The sheet included word comparisons for commonly used goods and services, a hotel official said. For example, vegetable is called “chaeso” in the South and “namsae” in the North.
    [snip]
    The differences are particularly challenging for women ice hockey players from the two Koreas who were asked just a few weeks ago to compete as one nation, the Canadian head coach of the joint team, Sarah Murray, told a news conference on Sunday.

    There are “three” languages in one team, she said, referring to English, South Korean and North Korean. South Koreans frequently used English words not understood by the northerners.

    “For our team meetings it is going through to English to South Korean to North Korean. So the meetings take three times as long,” Murray said.

    The team has compiled its own “dictionary” of different ice hockey terms to better communicate with each other, she said. Source

  7. 7.

    Amir Khalid

    Nancy Pelosi is what a real dealmaker looks like. The fool in the White House is a mere blustering poseur.

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    @Amir Khalid

    In many ways she is reminiscent of (sorry, raven) LBJ when he was Senate majority leader. The times and the opportunities or applications may differ but the core of the skill set remains the same.

  9. 9.

    kindness

    I don’t get why some on the left are so quick to throw Nancy under the bus. She got blamed for all the Democrats that lost elections. Wasn’t her fault. The public is a fickle one and the media sharks love the smell of blood. And some liberals just seem to like to eat their own. Don’t ask me to explain why.

  10. 10.

    Brachiator

    And when Democrats were in the majority, Pelosi amassed a record that’s all the more impressive given her unpopularity nationally. In 2008, despite favorability ratings around 30 percent and attacks from the left for not defunding the Iraq War, Pelosi led House Democrats to their second straight wave election.

    Goddam. This proves again that in some contexts, popularity polls are fucking meaningless. They don’t measure anything significant.

    And clearly they didn’t tell you squat about Pelosi’s power or effectiveness.

    And hopefully the dumbass GOP will keep underestimating her.

  11. 11.

    NotMax

    @Brachiator

    When it comes to national polls regarding individual Congressional popularity (an exercise in silliness from the get-go) 30 is the new 60.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    @kindness:

    I don’t get why some on the left are so quick to throw Nancy under the bus. She got blamed for all the Democrats that lost elections.

    They can’t win elections even though they believe they are popular. So someone has to take the blame. The GOP offers up Nancy the way they offered up Hillary, and that is that.

  15. 15.

    gene108

    Makes a good point that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are hugely unpopular, but for whatever reason Democrats have not been able wepaonize their unpopularity the same way Republicans have, over the years, with various Democratic leaders like Ted Kennedy.

    Would be nice to have Republican Congresscritters in swing districts running scared from their leadership.

  16. 16.

    Raven

    @Baud: not for a very long time, any family connection to a country makes one eligible and people emigrate to join teams.

  18. 18.

    Raven

    The Olympic Charter requires only that an athlete be a national of the country for which he or she is competing. If they want to compete for a different nation, it has to be three years after they last competed for their country of origin. Becoming a national is not difficult for a talented athlete.Aug 5, 2016

  19. 19.

    Aimai

    @gene108: because the press refuses to harp on or remark on their horribleness. McConnell is physically and morally loathesome but the press treats him as a towering legislative genius and perfectly respectable. Ryan is treated as a brilliant wunderkind and propped up as the sexy republican alternative to Obama when he can barely read his own charts, is obviously bought and paid for, and can’t do his fucking job. While the press considers old wimen to have cooties and be absurd when in power.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    @gene108: For whatever reason, our voters don’t hate as much as theirs do. Maybe it’s media that makes the difference.

    ETA:. Aimai confirms it.

  21. 21.

    Ramalama

    @Amir Khalid: I sent badass Nancy flowers when she became Speaker. She’s awesome. I was a little dismayed by the article since I wanted her to remain a stealth bomb. But then again, it’s a nice change from all of the diatribes against her.

  25. 25.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    I am grateful Pelosi is there, doing her job like a champ.

    My editor says I have to draw a map for the book coming out in September. I am appalled. I looked at some free software and was even more appalled because using it would mean I’d have to draw the map and learn the software. I think I’ll do what I can and send it to her and let her realize her mistake.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    One of Pelosi’s strengths lies in choosing which hills to fight for. While it may, with some justification, be said she can be overly cautious, too selective or even on occasion downright incorrect when picking which battles not to fight, she is very rarely in the wrong when it comes to hunkering down and choosing which ones to pursue.

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    Yet, for some reason, only Pelosi gets blamed

    Why, whatEVER could the reason be? I’m sure it’s not misogyny — didn’t that end when men allowed the wimmins to vote?

  29. 29.

    Immanentize

    @kindness:

    I don’t get why some on the left are so quick to throw Nancy under the bus. She got blamed for all the Democrats that lost elections.

    Is this a trick question? My answer is “lady parts.” I hate those guys like Rep. Ryan (D Dago Wine) who can’t defeat her with a vote in the House, so take their quixotic campaign public. He might just have been upfront and said, “Peni$ is better.”

  30. 30.

    Cermet

    The dems lack a massive cable/television noise machine that generally lies; and also, does not have the low life, scum Kock sucker brothers with their massive contribution ability – $400 million just for this year! Really!!?

  31. 31.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Don’t leave out sexism. It’s very easy for (especially older) men to dismiss and slag on a woman because she’s a woman. There’s a long history of this in the Congress. Arlen Spector, Phil Gramm, and many others.

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I have drafted maybe 50+ cave maps, most without the use of software but in the later years of my caving career I did use.a program a buddy of mine wrote for a while and later used Walls to set the plot lines and they did help with that tedious chore. I tried using Xara for drawing maps but soon gave it up out of frustration and continued with my Stone Age drafting methods while all my caving compatriots rushed head long into the 21st century.

  35. 35.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: ok. How about Moulton, who is pretty left for Congress but boarded Ryan’s Anti-Nancy train to Assholeville? I really liked Moulton before that….

  37. 37.

    Anne Laurie

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    My editor says I have to draw a map for the book coming out in September. I am appalled. I looked at some free software and was even more appalled because using it would mean I’d have to draw the map and learn the software. I think I’ll do what I can and send it to her and let her realize her mistake.

    Maybe check your fanbase, see if any of them are artists?

    (I only suggest this because *many* years ago, Diane Duane contacted a talented friend of mine to draw the map for one of her fantasy novels, since she’d seen friend’s artwork in fanzines. I’m assuming Tumblr or Instagram has taken the place of fanzines-on-paper, but there’s certainly enough web artists you should be able to find a collaborator… )

  39. 39.

    Kay

    They hate Pelosi as much as they hate Clinton. I never join any of the uprisings to get rid of her just because I feel like she’s so unfairly treated and it’s 100% gender.

    She’s good at her job and she’s not a smarmy kiss-ass phony like Paul Ryan so she gets savaged. It’s disgusting.

  41. 41.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I never join any of the uprisings to get rid of her just because I refuse to do the Republicans dirty work for them. If they want to get rid of Nancy they can do it the old fashioned way, at the ballot box.

  44. 44.

    evodevo

    @Aimai: Yes. This. Both Repubs and the MSM (AND some Dems) hate powerful, effective women who are good at their jobs, and are in a position to ORDER MEN AROUND, and go after them at every opportunity.. Never fails to astonish me how 19th century cultural norms are STILL THE NORM….

  46. 46.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: I’m OK with that. As much as I admire Nancy nothing is a given. She needs to earn her party’s support too.

  47. 47.

    Immanentize

    @rikyrah: Hi Rikyrah! Funny but true story. Mt friend at school and I were so psyched to go to Wakanda that when we saw tickets had gone on sale, we thought it was THIS WEEKEND not next. Disappointment and regrouping ensued. He and I debating whether it is worth seeing it on opening day when the crowds will be wild but joyous or wait until we can actually watch the movie…. We are leaning to BOTH!

  48. 48.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: It was straight up shocking to me. And he still considers it a big nothing. I am pretty sure he is the same with women.

  49. 49.

    Kay

    It isn’t even true that Pelosi is some caricature of a “San Francisco liberal” out of touch with the normal folk.

    Go look at the Dem agenda in 2006. It was 90% economic issues. That was Pelosi. She was actually one of the FIRST high profile politicians who recognized that college costs were skyrocketing and states were picking up less and less of the cost and working and middle class people would either be shut out or have to borrow a ton. There was a period there where she was the only top tier DC person talking about it.

  50. 50.

    Jager

    We went to bed last night at 9:30 and of course I was wide awake at 3:45, couldn’t go back to sleep. Got up, made coffee at 4. I was standing on the porch drinking it when Anze the Dog started raising holy hell…our resident raccoons were having a party by the pond. Do you have any idea how loud a German Shepherd can bark when he is riled up?

  51. 51.

    Immanentize

    @evodevo: Can anyone point to any woman in the Trump administration who is competent and not there because she was brought along by a higher placed man? Maybe Nikki Haley, but Ambassador to the UN is one weak ass position.

  53. 53.

    oldgold

    I agree that Pelosi has been very good at certain aspects of her job. And, that much of the criticism directed towards her is unwarranted.

    That expressed, in late August I hope and expect that she will decide to step aside.

  55. 55.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    I have an attenuated set of athletic skills – like half for every sport.

    I can dribble a basketball well and check players on defense, but can’t shoot for shit. I bat decent grounders, but throwing accuracy and catching is awful. In golf, I can two putt every green and do nice chip shots, but my drives suck ass. My swimming backstroke is great, but my crawl is awkward. I have no fear on the grid, but can’t catch a football to save my life. I tried boxing, and had to take a beating to get in to score points. In fencing, J don’t do those quick score light touches, but beat the shit out of the other fencer with my blade, opening me up to multiple scores on me.

    It’s maddening.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Paul Ryan is a “far Right Republican” and as the piece points out, his poll numbers suck. Gosh, I wonder why Pelosi ALONE is singled out for this treatment among congressional leaders?

    Paul Ryan was on a losing presidential ticket. Yet, this myth survives that he’s somehow the Voice of the Thoughtful Center.

    These people are shallow. They’re easy to fool. They fall for anything. You can see Ryan is a phony from a mile away yet they all adore him.

  58. 58.

    Chyron HR

    @oldgold:

    I hope and expect that [Pelosi] will decide to step aside.

    Of course! You demanded it on a top 10,000 blog, so how could it NOT happen?

  61. 61.

    SFAW

    @Chyron HR:

    Ironically, to the actual far left, “centrist neoliberal” is code talk for “supports women’s rights”.

    Shouldn’t that be “centrist neoliberal SHILL“?

    ETA: Or, since it’s Nancy Pelosi, “SHRILL”?

  62. 62.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:

    You can see Ryan is a phony from a mile away yet they all adore him.

    It is so frustrating. Yesterday when they kept playing his little “commitment” (not promise) speech about finding a DACA solution, I realized why his voice chaps me so — it is as if it is always speeded up. Strained and high. Like a 33 played at 45 (youth here can Google the ref).

  64. 64.

    Kay

    Can we also admit that people love Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security? This idea that the recipients of these programs are somehow getting in the way of “smart” people cutting the programs is anti-democratic and incredibly elitist.

    That’s how it’s supposed to work. If the masses support something it’s SUPPOSED to be hard to cut. That’s because we’re the masses and these rich assholes are not the masses. They don’t have the numbers we have. The system is working. Paul Ryan’s position is a FRINGE position.

  65. 65.

    kindness

    Fox News changed everything. Before Fox there wasn’t so much epistemic closure on the right. There was a range of right wing views. I grew up in the north east. We had liberal Republicans then. But with the advent of Fox & all the Koch et al bankrolls thrown at all the Commissions and Foundations paid to spout the toady line, right wing America doesn’t leave it’s safe space any more. When you see troglodytes commenting at the WaPo or what ever, they mean it. They are only used to viewing liberals as from another world just about. It holds true on the left too but I don’t think as much.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    I can’t stand how he widens his eyes. Based on 20 years of trying to judge if people are lying or not it’s a “tell”.

    Steer clear of people who carefully arrange their faces to portray “sincerity”. His regretful smile- like “they know not what they do”- ugh- just insufferable.

    I know Pelosi speaks in an odd, stilted manner. I don’t care. To her credit and unlike Paul Ryan she knows what she’s good at and she was never stupid enough to think she could win a national race. He was.

  70. 70.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Jager:

    With me, it’s been a lifetime of trying different things for a single sport I did well, and always falling short because of some facet that I struggle with. I’m a good scuba diver, but that’s not a competitive activity. I’m toying with the idea of either trying aikido or Krav Maga. I’m mid 50s, have no real health issues beyond some extra pounds that I yoyo on, no joint problems, etc.

    Maybe that’ll be the one that works for me.

  71. 71.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: I have to point out that Nikki Haley took a foreign policy position in the trump administration where she is charged with presenting trump FP to the world in a diplomatic fashion. How competent can she be?

  72. 72.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    That’s how it’s supposed to work. If the masses support something it’s SUPPOSED to be hard to cut. That’s because we’re the masses and these rich assholes are not the masses. They don’t have the numbers we have. The system is working. Paul Ryan’s position is a FRINGE position.

    Tribalism. Rethug voters don’t care that the people they voted for are actively trying to make their lives a shitload worse.

    As the ZEGS-with-easel graphic says:
    “- More Money For Us”
    “- FUCK YOU”

    Rethug voters (theoretically) know this, but not enough of them care.

  75. 75.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: If I were the ‘Iron Stash,’ I would put that ridiculous photo of him “working out” with the backwards baseball cap on every billboard I could rent with just one word below it:
    “REALLY?”

    ETA. I am not sure Ryan is planning to run again. He may yet retire.

  76. 76.

    NotMax

    @Jager

    Hear that loud and clear. Have pretty much had to eschew using hand baskets at the stores; having a cart to lean on while trekking up and down the aisles is more and more an aid than a convenience.

  78. 78.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Now I wish I were athletically skilled.

    Being an Olympic athlete has not helped get one to the Oval Office. In fact, the only Olympic gold medalist to make it that far has been Dolt 45.

    Or so he says.

  79. 79.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: not very? But she seems out of the crazy fray a bit and I assume she took it to bolster her own foreign policy experience/bona fide. But that job is a resume killer. For just the reason you point to.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    @SFAW:

    It’s such bullshit. They bent over backward to find an excuse for why Rand Paul didn’t want to cut Medicaid. Rand Paul didn’t want to cut Medicaid because half his state relies on Medicaid. It’s no more complicated than that.

    They are allowing Republican voters to palm off this bullshit about how they hate government programs when actually they love government programs, judging by how many of them are on one. It took 20 years for them to admit the vast majority of the recipients of these programs are white people, even though that should have been obvious just by white percentage of the population.

  82. 82.

    SFAW

    @Immanentize:

    He may yet retire.

    Unlikely. In January, 2019, there will still be non-wealthy that he hasn’t managed to fuck over, and he is not one to leave undone something that important.

  84. 84.

    debbie

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I have skills, but I have no competitive drive. When I used to play a lot of tennis, I’d let a good shot go if I thought it deserved to win. Not what you’d want in a doubles partner!

    Growing up with three brothers, I had no interest in competing with them, probably because they were all hulks. I’m much better at outsmarting them, so I stick to that.

  85. 85.

    Immanentize

    @SFAW:
    Justice Byron White (Whizzer) was an NFL player for the Lions. And President Ford was a big deal on the Gridiron in college. But no Olympic medals, I suppose.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    I didn’t realize this.

    For the first time in Olympic history, an African-American is playing for a US hockey team

    CNN

  88. 88.

    Immanentize

    @SFAW: If it looks like the House will go Dem., Ryan will jump ship because he is a craven ass. He will not stay to fight for his causes or his caucus (like Nancy Smash has).

  89. 89.

    Cermet

    After reading the “Lawyers, Guns, and Money” post on whether a shut down would help, starting to think, not necessarily. Keeping most amerikans on board with support for the dreamers might be the best way but creating an issue that could sour some, might not work for getting it passed. A number of thugs do want to save the dreamers. Might be possible if the dems agree to limit immigration and throw money at the idea of a wall. Frankly, to save these 1.8 million(!?) kids, I’d happily build that stupid fucking wall and limit immigration. The thought of those amerikan kids being deported and cast in those alien and possibly very hostile environments, which would be the death of too many, absolutely horrifies me.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    In private, Trump has been questioning the credibility of the allegations against Rob Porter, and asked repeatedly if there are any reasons Porter’s ex-wives could have to make up such claims.

    Remember- this is the man who wanted teenagers executed based on hysterical, racist bullshit about “wilding” he read about in the newspaper most of which was invented. Thank God he wasn’t in charge of executions, huh? Since they turned out to be innocent?

    Why, just last week he made up an elaborate lie about how a border agent was murdered. Completely invented.

    He’s not fit to be on a jury let alone President.

  93. 93.

    cosima

    Does this piece say *who* they queried to get this magic popularity number? I find it very difficult to believe that’s a real number from Dem voters. If, however, you polled a heavily red district/area, or all of your BBros friends, you might get to that number. I’ve never — ever — thought badly of Pelosi, to the contrary, I think she is brilliant, and have never underestimated her. However, as long as d-bag R voters are keen to underestimate her, well, please continue to do so.

    And I’m so bloody sick of seeing posts (on the book of faces) about Dems ‘failing to capitalise on their leverage’ to help dreamers. What leverage are they talking about? The leverage that existed prior to the last presidential election that was binned thanks to a bunch of apathetic a-holes & BBros?

  94. 94.

    Peale

    @Cermet: I would like a list of names of congressmen on the gop side who would vote for the dreamers. I’m tired of hearing about these GOP saviors who don’t speak up. 180 members of the house will vote no because the freedom caucus and the gop study group is against them. I don’t believe there are more than 5 gop votes for it.

  95. 95.

    MomSense

    @debbie:

    I don’t think we can ignore that there have been so many despicable men in the news media and entertainment who have committed rape, sexual harassment, and assault. They have been influencing how Americans view women like Nancy Smash for decades.

  96. 96.

    Raoul

    Paul Ryan knows how to charm the Sunday show wankers. But “even as Ryan and his predecessors have had to pull bills from the House floor because they got the whip count wrong” is spot on. He’s a shitty Speaker. He can’t manage his freedumb caucus. But he’s telegenic and has totally bamboozled the press with fake, shallow, magic asterisk ‘wonkery’.

    We need to kick his ass to the curb in November.

  97. 97.

    Jager

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The only reason I started to play hockey was our next door neighbor was a semi-pro goalie and he had three little girls, I became Leo’s designated son. No one in my family had ever played hockey before or since. My mom was a incredible athlete, all state basketball, track and later a golfer. When she was in her 60’s she’d stub out her Tareyton 100 and shoot hoops with her grand daughters. Both my nieces played college hoops and to this day they say “grandma was one of the best shooters they’d ever seen.”, perfect form.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    @oldgold: Your ignoring the fact that pushing her out would hurt us more by discouraging our voters. We have to learn to win with our people, not by abandoning them whenever the GOP says boo.

  99. 99.

    Raoul

    @Kay: Hey, Orange menace, Porter’s second wife took out a freakin’ TRO against him in 2010.
    Was she planning to torpedo his political career eight years later with that? Or did she use a time machine to go back and file it? Jesus.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    I agree. Have you noticed also that there’s been remarkably little political punditry about this?

    The people in charge of the narrative are really good at protecting their own, unsurprisingly.

    Remember this? The worst debate moderator in history?

    “You’re communicating on highly sensitive topics. You’ve said it was a mistake,” said Lauer. “Why wasn’t it more than a mistake? Why wasn’t it disqualifying?”
    The insistence on discussing her emails continued throughout the forum, and Lauer spent a full third of Clinton’s allotted time talking about the controversy. Meanwhile, he failed to fact check Trump when he claimed that he had opposed the Iraq war. When Trump rambled about what the U.S. should have done in Iraq, Lauer quickly moved on without pressing him for clarity.

    The whole debate was like that. Then, surprise, surprise, we find out Matt Lauer has been treating women like shit for decades. With the full backing of his colleagues.

  101. 101.

    Schlemazel

    @Raven:
    One of them is, Marissa Brandt, Sister of Hannah Brandt. Adopted from Korea by the Brandts a few months before the learned She would have a sister. Hannah is one of the star forwards for team USA and winner of 3 NCAA championships as a MN Gopher. Marissa Brandt played D-III hockey at a private University here in the Twin CIties. MN played Team Korea last fall and they will not be winning any games at this tourney but they are having a great time & will do themselves proud I think.

  102. 102.

    Kay

    @Raoul:

    The key thing to remember with the Trump Administration is it is all about them. Personally. Those people. They analyze all issues as to how it effects the 150 people in top jobs in the Trump Administration.

    When the women who Trump has physically attacked came forward Trump gave a speech in PA where he said they were “hurting my campaign”. My. Me. Not the public. Not the women.

  103. 103.

    MomSense

    @cosima:

    I have developed some kind of bizarre Tourette’s like syndrome because I cant stop muttering, yelling st my radio, and typing in all caps ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES YOU FREKING DIPSHITS!1!!1!

  105. 105.

    Schlemazel

    @Baud:
    Every country can make their own rules. Several American born men have played for the Italian Ice Hockey team because their ancestors came from Italy. We have a goalie on the University team that holds dual citizenship in Canada and the US. SHe lives in Canada right on the border outside Vancouver. She was allowed to chose which national team she would play for & chose the US (Canada, despite their Olympic success is very Eastern-centric). As I understand it she would be allowed to change that decision once, but that might be before a certain age I don’t remember.

  106. 106.

    kindness

    @oldgold:

    Because I expect the planned GOP attacks on Pelosi will be effective in Purple Districts this fall.

    Shitting in one’s pants doesn’t help Blue Dogs or swing voters buy what you want to sell. And Nancy raises an incredible amount of money for Democrats. Where are you going to replace that? You need a better reason than that to revive the Bernie wars within the party. Doing that is what solidified Republican’s meme about Hillary you realise.

  107. 107.

    raven

    @Schlemazel: Whew, they are getting crushed but the Swiss also seem to have a ton of played who played in college here. I’ll rely on you for the facts!

  110. 110.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @SFAW: I remember when she became soeaker. Savage went on a long rant about how the congress was being inundated with the smell of diapers and baby powdwe (I think she had everyone bring their family on her swearing in or some such). He was livid at the thought of women being anywhere near congress.

    I find Savage weirdly funny at times. He once advised his’nice’ young male conservative listeners to remember one thing: democratic women are ok to date for great sex. But for marriage, only a good, moral republican woman can be a worthy wife.

  111. 111.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    The coverage of her 8 hour speech on the floor of Congress was covered decently in a few places but there was almost no discussion of what she said. They talked about what she wore and the stupid horse race aspect of how will this go over in Scranton. Meanwhile I’m yelling at my teevee that it might go over better in Scranton if you fucking reported what she said! I admit it’s colorful to talk about her four inch stilettos and Wendy Davis’ cool sneakers but c’mon they were talking about important shit.

  112. 112.

    Schlemazel

    @Raoul:
    Well, we know from the birth certificate caper that the libs have a time machine they used to plant the news article announcing Barak’s birth so that explains it!

  113. 113.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Good morning, everyone! Rainy and gloomy here (and for the next three days), but I have a delightful opera to see this afternoon — Donizetti’s L’Elisir d’Amore — and tomorrow afternoon a joint meeting between Common Cause and the local Indivisible chapter.

    Also wondering, has anyone seen or heard anything from Quinerly? Maybe I’ve just missed her, but she and Poco generally check in from the road at least once every day or two, and I don’t think I’ve seen a comment from her in close to a week. Hope they are having good travels and staying busy.

  116. 116.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    Oh what about the “joke” Matthews told before he interviewed her on that candidates forum. Hahahahaha it’s so funny to think about slipping the first woman nominee for President a date rape drug. Even funnier that he called it a Bill Cosby pill.

  117. 117.

    oldgold

    Has anyone been following the special House race in Pennsylvania?

    This fall’s GOP playbook is there to read.

  118. 118.

    rikyrah

    @Peale:
    If brought to the floor, I believe the DREAM Act can pass the House. It will be with an overwhelming majority of DEM votes, but you need less than 30 GOPers if the Dems vote for it. I think that’s plausible.
    If it wouldn’t pass, the ZEGK would bring it to the floor.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    He’s always been awful. What is his special skill, exactly? Why does he have that job?

    It isn’t just that they’re horrible it’s that they MAKE so much! There’s something wrong with this market. It isn’t functioning. Why in the HELL was Lauer paid so much for so long?

  120. 120.

    Schlemazel

    @raven:
    There are a handful of Swiss women that play D-I hockey here so they have some talent. Many Universities have European women because they can’t get the development opportunities anywhere else, not enough talent in the rest of the world. Duluth’s ex-coach had been Canada’s national coach before she took the job at UMD & she would routinely have women from 5-6 countries outside the US. Finlands goalie, Nora Räty (pronounced RAH-too) may be the best in the world, backstopped Minnesota’s perfect season and 62 game win streak. The problem in international play is that US and Canada produce about 80% of the best players in the world so it is always those two playing for gold with Finland getting bronze. In world play Finland has beaten both the US & Canada once. At this years world championship Russia appears to be much improved and Germany managed to get promoted to the A pool but really the dropoff after US and Canada is noticable.

  121. 121.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    Both siderism is another chronic and toxic problem. It plays right into the Republican strategy of making Congress so dysfunctional that voters become disgusted by politics and check out. The both siderism gives the false impression that both parties are to blame and so Republicans rarely take the hit for their bad faith behavior.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    @oldgold: You mean this one?

    The day after Conor Lamb won the Democratic nomination to run in this very pro-Donald Trump House district, Republican strategist Corry Bliss knew his party had another special election problem on its hands.
    …..
    By the end of the weekend, Republicans were outspending Democrats on TV by a ratio of nearly 5-to-1. The GOP push will only intensify: The Republican National Committee is set to invest about $1 million, much of it on digital, field and other get-out-the-vote activities.

    The blueprint, described by over a dozen senior party officials and strategists, underscores the enormous stakes for the party. With Republicans already deeply anxious about the midterms, a loss in Pennsylvania’s 18th District, which Trump won by 20 percentage points, would show that the party is vulnerable even in deep conservative territory and that a political bloodbath could be in the making.

    Republicans have reason for alarm. In January, America First Action, the principal pro-Trump outside group, quietly conducted a poll that found Saccone with a single-digit lead over Lamb, who hails from a well-known political family in southwestern Pennsylvania.

    Sounds like we’re overperforming. So why should we discourage our voters by showing weakness?

    ETA: Politico

    ETA2: Note: Not a swing district.

  123. 123.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    It turns out that Lauer May have raped women in his office – the one with the automatic door lock button on his desk. NBC installed a fucking button used to trap women in his office!

  124. 124.

    Silent no more

    @MomSense: On a topic you raised in an earlier thread — I asked this there, but think the thread was superseded by others — have you already looked at Ehlers-Danlos syndrome?

  128. 128.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @NotMax:

    Well … both. It’s transmitted live in HD to cinemas. I’m seeing it in a nearby movie palace (believe I have mentioned that I volunteer as the Met’s “Ambassador” for these events, serving as liaison between audience, theatre, and the Met — so it’s always the HD for me).

  129. 129.

    MomSense

    @Silent no more:

    I don’t know. I’ll ask. We are doing genetic testing and it takes a surprisingly long time. I think Marfan was the most likely b cause we have so many of the physical characteristics but I haven’t seen the longer list. When I’m in Florida in March I’m going to go to the medical appointments so I will know more. I’ll ask today if that was one of the tests.

  130. 130.

    Another Scott

    @oldgold: Anyone who thinks that the voters of San Francisco and the Democratic members of the House are wrong to have put Pelosi in her position as a US Representative and as Minority Leader have an obligation to say who they think would be better and why.

    Otherwise, they’re just stirring up dissension in the only group that can throw Trump and the Teabaggers out of power.

    So, who is better and why?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131.

    Schlemazel

    @MomSense:

    It plays right into the Republican Putin’s strategy of making Congress so dysfunctional that voters become disgusted by politics and check out.

    same difference

  132. 132.

    germy

    It’s not hard to see how they feel about women. They’ve left a trail of breadcrumbs.

    Donald Trump in 1994: "I tell friends who treat their wives magnificently, get treated like crap in return, 'Be rougher and you’ll see a different relationship.'" t.co/5TDVcoUgiK— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) February 9, 2018

  133. 133.

    oldgold

    @Amir Khalid:

    All of them.

    Which will be most effective?

    The GOP is currently betting the attacks on Pelosi in the swing districts will the most effective this fall.

  136. 136.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    @Kay: Trump thinks of events in small, personal terms and appears to believe other people do too. He seems unaware of institutions or processes outside someone’s personal orbit. Like he thought firing Comey would end the Russia investigation because it was just some personal persecution by Comey.

  138. 138.

    --bd

    It’s funny. I went to high school with Dana. Even ran Cross Country with him one year (minutes behind, for me it was glorified exercise). I always thought I was the political nerd. I’ve been following politics and policy since Watergate (Yep, I was 10). Then to discover his Twitter feed here when JC started posting his stuff, when I have been reading here for at least five years to find out that he’s actually living out the political nerd stuff, running campaigns and Congressional offices. Well done, Dana. Now I feel guilty that I was the one selected for Boys’ State. –MDW

  144. 144.

    Another Scott

    @Immanentize: Supposedly Ryan was thinking about retiring “after 2018”. We need to beat him like we’d beat a 100 year old rug and not assume he’ll just quit.

    (Figuratively, of course.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  145. 145.

    Betty Cracker

    There’s a fool who lives down the road from me who has had a “Fire Pelosi!” bumper sticker on his truck since at least 2008. We live nearly 3K miles from Pelosi’s district, mind you. I’m much more interested in firing the corrupt Republican piece of shit who actually represents us.

    As for whether or not Pelosi should retain her leadership post, here’s the only relevant question, IMO: Is she good at her job? The answer is yes. It would be foolish for Democrats to give people like my asshole neighbor a veto over party leadership positions.

  148. 148.

    gene108

    @Cermet:

    and throw money at the idea of a wall. Frankly, to save these 1.8 million(!?) kids, I’d happily build that stupid fucking wall and limit immigration.

    When they talk about “limiting immigration”, they are not just talking about keeping new arrivals out. They are talking about dicking over anyone, who is hear and not a naturalized U.S, citizen.

    They are already floating a proposal to deny Green Cards and citizenship to immigrant parents of U.S. citizens, if they enroll their kids in CHIP or get an ACA subsidy. People, who are hear legally can either self-deport or have their kids go without health insurance.

    They will also go after all people, who are here on temprorary visas, like H1-b*, F-1 (student visa), refugee status waiting for their case to be adjudicated, etc., because the New Cruelty will not stop until America becomes a white nationalist ethnic state, with the New Jim Crow to keep blacks in their place. They refused to extend the TPS visas, temporary visas for people displaced by natural disasters or civil wars, of hundreds of thousands of people, many having settled here for 20 years.

    After they clear out the temporary visa holders in this country, they will go after permanent residents, then naturalized US citizens, and then look for a way to revoke birth right citizenship for children born in the USA to immigrant parents.

    Don’t get fooled, by their talk about limiting immigration.

    * The backlog for an Indian on an H1-b to get a Green Card is 10 years, if you have a Masters Degree, when you applied or 12 years, if you only had a Bachelors Degree. There are three parts in a GC application. After the second part is approved, you theoretically should be able to get a green card in a few months. Because of country caps on the number of GC’s issued, there is this 10-12 year backlog for Indians, and shorter backlogs for Chinese. H1-b visas are supposed to be good for six years, but because of this backlog, USCIS as kludged together a work around. If the second part has been approved, you can keep extending your H1-b indefinitely. People have taken this for granted and settled down here, bought homes, have American born kids, etc. Trump & Co. were contemplating repealing this kuldged together ruling, throwing the lives of thousands into chaos.

  149. 149.

    SFAW

    @Immanentize:

    If it looks like the House will go Dem., Ryan will jump ship because he is a craven ass.

    From your keyboard (or whatever) to FSM’s ear-like noodle-y appendages.

    ETA: If Randy Bryce wins, I think it would be good fun to make him Speaker for one week, just to flip ZEGS/ZEGK the bird

  150. 150.

    Another Scott

    @oldgold: Yet the Democratic members of the House didn’t think that when they elected her Minority Leader again. I wonder why that is?

    Maybe the people whose careers and effectiveness as legislators, and who understand the importance of having the majority when it comes to getting things done in the House, have a better idea of her strengths and weaknesses (and those of people who might want to replace her) than you do?

    Don’t accept the GOP framing of how Democrats should run the party.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  154. 154.

    oldgold

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think the question should be: Does Pelosi being the leader of the House Democrats make it more or less likely that the Democrats take control of the House this fall?

  156. 156.

    debbie

    @MomSense:

    No, they can’t be ignored. But neither can we ignore the Neanderthal mindset of men who would relegate women to subservient positions.

  157. 157.

    gene108

    @oldgold:

    The GOP is currently betting the attacks on Pelosi in the swing districts will the most effective this fall.

    My mom has the same view you have, that there is a substantial risk in swing districts, when the Kochs, et. al. plaster the air waves with ads saying “A vote for “x” is a vote for Pelosi and her San Francisco values”.

    But, if Pelosi steps down from her leadership position and does not immediately resign her seat, Republicans will still run those attack ads, because she is still in Congress and (1) most people don’t pay enough attention to know, who the minority leader is, and (2) as long as she is still in Congress she can always be portrayed as the “power behind the throne”, i.e. a modern day Lady MacBeth.

    Edit: The only way to win this game Republicans want us to play is not play their game. We go into 2018 with the agenda we define, and don’t let Republicans dictate terms.

  159. 159.

    Schlemazel

    My new rule is anyone who whines endlessly in ways that will divide the Democratic Party while offering no viable alternative is either a tool of Putin or one of his useful idiots. Neither is worth responding to online since the finger is not yet an emoji

  160. 160.

    Another Scott

    @oldgold: Pelosi has been attacked as an “out of touch San Francisco Liberal” by the GOP since at least 1987. In that time, there have been several wave elections that have given the Democrats the majority – 6 Congresses have had Democratic majorities since then.

    Maybe she’s just a boogie-man and her serving in the House and as Leader aren’t a fatal flaw? Maybe she’s actually a huge benefit?

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  162. 162.

    SFAW

    @oldgold:

    Does Pelosi being the leader of the House Democrats make it more or less likely that the Democrats take control of the House this fall?

    Excellent point!!!!1!2!

    I know I DEFINITELY will only vote for a Demon-rat if they get rid of one of the most effective legislative leaders in recent memory, Because why the fuck would I want Dems to get anything through Congress?

    They’ve been using Pelosi as a boogy(wo)man for 10 or 15 years now. So what else is new?

    But, yes, by all means, let’s show we can be as loyal to our effective leaders as Shitgibbon is to anybody.

    ETA: Or what Another Scott said.

  163. 163.

    Amir Khalid

    @oldgold:
    Do you seriously believe the Republicans will attack Pelosi, and only Pelosi? That’s not how partisan politics works. You go to war with the enemies you have, not the enemies you wish you had.

  164. 164.

    PAM Dirac

    @oldgold: That is NOT the only question. A lot of people act like gaining a majority in the House and/or Senate would lead to unicorns farting rainbows and the singing of Kumbaya over the land. All it would do is give the Democrats more power to govern. If they can’t use that power to make things better, then everything falls apart. Governing is hard. You can’t escape reality and one of the realities is that there are a lot of people with different ideas of what is most important and how much can be done and it takes hard (and thankless) work to get real things done. Who is better at doing the hard work than Pelosi? Also, if the Democrats take back the House there is a very good chance that most of the newcomers will be women. You really think removing an exceptionally well qualified leader in favor of an untested one in such an important time just because the rethuglican daddies don’t like her will generate enthusiasm in this group?

  165. 165.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Schlemazel: He’s doing well, or at least as well as can be expected for someone with more titanium in his leg than bone. Went in to get the stitches removed but the original wound (where the bones came out of his leg) began oozing blood. After squeezing out a rather larger amount of coagulated blood that had accumulated there (he said that even he, an inveterate pimple popper, was grossed out by it) they put a couple stitches back in. Other than that all is progressing as it should with the swelling reducing.

    He got approved for Medicaid (thank you Obama and John Bell Edwards for the Medicaid expansion) so everyone gets paid. The company he works for has a fund for employees who find themselves in such situations and they are going to pick up 2-3 months rent so all he and his wife have to worry about is feeding themselves. That and finding a new vehicle because his truck has been totaled by his insurance company.

    Unfortunately he has had to hire a lawyer because all the other insurance companies involved are giving him a run around. SNAFU.

  166. 166.

    Another Scott

    @SFAW: I know. I’m giving him an opportunity to engage in a constructive manner today. If he chooses not to, well, …

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  167. 167.

    Baud

    To all the ladies who were inspired to run for office this year, you’re on your own if you piss off the GOP.

    Good luck!

  169. 169.

    oldgold

    @gene108:

    It is happening in the Pennsylvania special election.

    As they trudged through Greensburg, Terrill and Abbott hung door placards that took aim at a familiar Republican target: Pelosi. The hangers describe Lamb as a “rubber-stamp” for the Democratic leader — a message that grew directly out of focus groups the super PAC had conducted in January, when voters expressed widespread antipathy toward Pelosi.

    google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/02/05/pennsylvania-republicans-special-election-389…

  172. 172.

    Schlemazel

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Fucking insurance companies. So grateful he is on the mend and also that his company is extending him some help. Do you think he might need a gofundme? When I fractured my pelvis it took 3 months to recover enough to get back to work & a couple years to get to ‘normal’. The biggest part of rehab is to admit is is going to be slow and occasionally painful and there will be stretches where he will not see any progress. You just have to keep pushing forward.
    Thanks for the update.

  175. 175.

    Brachiator

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Trump thinks of events in small, personal terms and appears to believe other people do to. He seems unaware of institutions or processes outside someone’s personal orbit.

    Excellent point. Excellent.

    Trump doesn’t just seem unaware. It is the core of how he sold himself to Republicans.

    This is part of Trump’s appeal. His supporters want someone who will just get things done by personal decree. Institutions are just red tape.

    Like he thought firing Comey would end the Russia investigation because it was just some personal persecution by Comey.

    Yep. This is why is often so frustrated.

    But note that the Republican leadership provides the institutional muscle that props him up. And they will continue to do so no matter what he does.

    Taking back Congress will not solve everything, but it can definitely flip the script on aspects of Trump’s ignorant leadership style.

  176. 176.

    FlipYrWhig

    @gene108: If only Democrats could associate their Republican foes with someone better known and very unpopular with the general public. Wait a sec, it’ll come to me.

  177. 177.

    Schlemazel

    @Another Scott:
    The thing about these stupid trolls is that they have no useful alternative, they are only here to create division and depression. Stop responding, pie the fucker & move on. I am tired of fighting with all of them because you cannot get a straight answer and you will never convince them. That is why they are either on Putin’s payroll or one of his useful idiots doing the work for free. We get them here every election

  179. 179.

    cosima

    Democrats Abroad is promoting this bullshyt piece as proof that Dem resistance to the orange fart cloud is eroding:

    theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/democrats-resistance-to-trump-is-eroding-and-so-are-their-p…

    Has anybody with half a brain considered The Atlantic worth reading after they let Sullivan & McArdle dump all over their pages and their readers (and paid subscribers such as myself)? Told Dem Abroad to f right off and stop promoting pieces that rely on thehill and cnbc links to fluff up word count, presumably because the author doesn’t have a brain or original informed thought.

    Getting back into reading/commenting about politics is not good for my bp.

  180. 180.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @SFAW:

    Thing is, Nancy is an old time “pay equity, old labor, pro capitalism with everybody getting a taste” liberal. She’s not a “let’s get teary-eyed over the ignored wisdom and inherent societal worth of the sidewalk-shitting, aggressive-panhandling San Francisco homeless” ultraprogressive activist.

    Somehow, I doubt that Nancy would go to the mat over squatters and street-shitting panhandlers. for that matter, neither would Lenin or Trotsky.

  182. 182.

    Citizen Alan

    @Schlemazel:

    That is why they are either on Putin’s payroll or one of his useful idiots doing the work for free. 

    Not necessarily. Oldgold might just be a supporter of Willmer or Jill Stein …. wait a minute. Never mind, forget I said anything.

  184. 184.

    No Drought No More

    Lest We Forget: Pelosi also possessed the sound judgement to oppose the Bush-Cheney plot to war. I fault her only in her subsequent silence about what happened, and why. But I don’t fault her alone. The democratic party across the board- that is, its rank and file- inexplicably turned a blind eye to that treason, too. They utterly failed to hold unrepentant congressional democrats to account for their catastrophically bad judgement. Gar worse, they nominated two of them as presidential nominees.

    What sticks in my craw about that is that Dick Cheney will never live to see his name equated with treason. He will sneer and laugh all the way to his grave over his bloody bad deeds that made war criminals of us all.

  186. 186.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Schlemazel:

    Do you think he might need a gofundme?

    Nah, we’ll manage. He is very realistic about the rehab. His biggest frustration will be the fact that as a waiter/bartender he is on his feet all the time. Time will tell.

  188. 188.

    Another Scott

    @cosima: TheAtlantic is schizophrenic. Coates and Fallows are great. Ioffee is very good. Goldberg’s ‘The Obama Doctrine’ was important. Frum? Urgh.

    I give TheAtlantic more of a pass than FTFNYT because they’re small.

    One has to be selective in one’s reading, and sometimes that means sending clicks and dollars to organizations that support great and important writers, and also writers that should be banished.

    Take the good where you find it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  190. 190.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: I don’t know the ins and outs of how medicaid works but the first question the hospital social worker asked was what his income was, not what it will be.

  192. 192.

    oldgold

    @Another Scott:

    I do not have a specific individual in mind at this time. Probably best to wait until after the election to decide that.

    Did you know that an individual can be named Speaker of the House without being an elected member?

  199. 199.

    Glidwrith

    @oldgold: This isn’t the first time you have raised objections to Pelosi and various commentors have given well-reasoned and polite responses. I have enjoyed seeing the angles from which Pelosi is viewed.

    However, your continuing sea lioning shows no good faith on your part and it’s too early for this shit.

    Shorter: fuck off and pied.

  200. 200.

    tobie

    @Kay: I really wish every taxpayer in the country would get a report at the end of the year indicating how much their county paid in state and federal tax and how much it received in state and federal aid. I think it was Jeffro who suggested we call it the “Makers and Takers Report.” Rural life is not self-sustaining. Given that rural areas are the most solidly Republican, the voters there should be informed of how much the US pays to let them live in far-flung places.

  201. 201.

    cosima

    @Another Scott: I agree that they deserve recognition for supporting TNHC. Are they now wandering into more harm than good, territory, though? I’m not convinced they’re part of the solution, rather than the problem, similar to the FTFNYT having Krugman as the sole sane person not making up for the evil they peddle.

  202. 202.

    Immanentize

    Ok. This thread is almost dead, but after (d)reading today’s NYT and their stories on Kelly on Hope Hicks, I gotta ask — she dated Lewandowski, she dated Porter, she ______ed Trump — hasn’t any friend ever told Hope she shouldn’t get her meat where she gets her bread?

  204. 204.

    Betty Cracker

    @oldgold:

    I think the question should be: Does Pelosi being the leader of the House Democrats make it more or less likely that the Democrats take control of the House this fall?

    Two problems with your theory:

    1) The House leadership job is really difficult and important (whether in the majority or minority position), so it’s pretty dumb to make a wholly subjective political assessment the primary consideration. A potted plant would be inoffensive to pretty much everyone, but it would suck as speaker, no?

    2) People who recoil at the name “Pelosi” like vampires confronted with garlic and holy water aren’t going to vote for Democrats. Period.

  205. 205.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: My theory is that she is working so much, work relationships are the only relationships she has. As such she has a pretty shallow puddle of suitors to fish in.

  207. 207.

    Citizen Alan

    @No Drought No More:

    It was hardly inexplicable. In the aftermath of 9/11, Shrub had a 97% approval rating, and the Republicans made it clear early on that they were going to demagogue the hell out of any Democrat who didn’t support their rush to war. You may not think it speaks well of Democrats who try to balance the possibility of staying in office and trying to slow the express train to hell against the possibility of taking a stand against Bush only to see him end up with a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. But it was hardly inexplicable.

  209. 209.

    oldgold

    @Betty Cracker:

    1) Yes, the Pelosi’s job is very difficult. You will get no argument from me there. And, as I stated earlier, certain aspects of this job she does very well. I accept that Pelosi is a “Master Legislator.”

    2) My view of independent voters in swing districts is much different than yours.

  211. 211.

    gene108

    @Citizen Alan:

    demagogue the hell out of any Democrat who didn’t support their rush to war.

    Technically not a rush to war, but rather sabre rattling to let weapons inspectors back into Iraq. Bush, Jr’s sales pitch to Congress was give me power to use military force, if Saddam doesn’t let inspectors back in. Saddam, to Bush’s chagrin did let inspectors in and cooperated with them.

    Bush had won the point, but it wasn’t the point he wanted to win.

    As much as we like getting into a circular firing squad about Democrats votering for the AUMF, the reality is BUSH LIED TO CONGRESS AND THE DECISION TO GO TO WAR AS HIS AND HIS ALONE.

    Quit blaming Democrats for Republican bad behavior. We are like abuse victims. If only, I had done this or that better, the abuser would have not done something bad.

  212. 212.

    Brachiator

    @gene108:

    As much as we like getting into a circular firing squad about Democrats votering for the AUMF, the reality is BUSH LIED TO CONGRESS AND THE DECISION TO GO TO WAR AS HIS AND HIS ALONE.

    Quit blaming Democrats for Republican bad behavior.

    Yep. Voting for the AUMF is not the same thing as launching the war.

    There may be purity ponies who want to insist that the Democrats should be pacifists, but this ain’t reality.

  214. 214.

    J R in WV

    @Immanentize:

    Well IF Nikki had any pretense of academic qualifications for that diplomatic position, it would lead to a nice career of think tanks, international meetings with suites in Switzerland, London, Paris, Vienna, etc. Well paid to opine on the latest international frufru.

    But so far as I know, she has no qualification for the position at all, other than being of Indian heritage, which she had been running away from her whole life.

  215. 215.

    Miss Bianca

    @Amir Khalid: Because there is no good reason.

    Every “reason” a Pelosi-kvetcher can offer up boils down to its roots in either sexism, ageism, or white-lefty resentment of “neoliberalism”, which is shorthand for “knows how to get shit done, and knows that purity politics ain’t the way that shit gets done.”

    Or a creamy and toxic blend of all three.

    ETA: Or it’s “oh, because *Republicans* will slag her and it will hurt Democratic election chances!!” concern trolling. That’s a new one that oldgold offered up for free!

  216. 216.

    Miss Bianca

    @oldgold: Don’t tell me, let me guess: you were totally on board with what happened to Al Franken, right? Because oh my God, the Republicans might have made the Democrats look bad on the issue of sexual harrassment!

  217. 217.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Immanentize: Agreed. I think the competence/sanity of anyone in the trump admin needs to be questioned, as in “Drunk? Or just stupid?”

    I would suggest “Drunk? Crazy? Or just Stupid” myself, YMMV….

  219. 219.

    J R in WV

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    I find Savage weirdly funny at times. He once advised his ’nice’ young male conservative listeners to remember one thing: democratic women are ok to date for great sex. But for marriage, only a good, moral republican woman can be a worthy wife.

    “But for marriage, only a good, moral republican woman can be a worthy wife[, if you aren’t interested in sex any more!]”.

    FTFY ;-)

  220. 220.

    J R in WV

    @oldgold:

    Oh dawg, I am so grateful to Major^4 and Alain for implementing such a simple to use version of Cleek’s pie filter!!! I can make the BernieBros go away, and the Russian bots too, with just a cut ‘n paste and a click or two.

    Thanks Major^4, Thanks Alain !!!!

  221. 221.

    oldgold

    From the Hill:

    CLF has had success during the 2017 special election cycle tying candidates to Pelosi no matter their stance on her leadership. And the group made it clear in a recent memo that it will continue to bludgeon candidates by linking them to the Democratic leader, noting that its surveys of 69 competitive districts (including Pennsylvania’s 18th District) show Pelosi’s favorability underwater in every instance.

    google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/371488-new-gop-ad-attacks-dem-in-pa-special-election-ov…

  223. 223.

    SFAW

    @oldgold:

    The Rethugs ALWAYS try to destroy a strong woman who has some power. So was neues?

    But if Steny Hoyer or Seth Moulton suddenly became Minority Leader, the Rethug ads would be shrieking about the ultraliberal Steny Hoyer or the ultraliberal Seth Moulton.

    But, yes, because you’re CONCERNED about what the Rethugs might say, let’s by all means throw yet another Dem leader under the bus.

  224. 224.

    J R in WV

    @Another Scott:

    Just WOW, Colossal Cave maps!!11 I haven’t been in Colossal Cave since the ’80s. Not only another Old, a computer geek old too!!

    Nice to meet you! in a manner or speaking, we’ve been acquainted, but not on this level, heh, heh! Twisty passages, indeed…

  225. 225.

    burnspbesq

    @oldgold:

    Does Pelosi being the leader of the House Democrats make it more or less likely that the Democrats take control of the House this fall

    More, ya daft-ass muthafucka. Pelosi is the best fund-raiser the Dems have.

  226. 226.

    SFAW

    @burnspbesq:

    Pelosi is the best fund-raiser the Dems have.

    Interesting that she’s the best fund raiser for both parties. (As some persons would have you believe.)

  229. 229.

    Marcia

    @kindness:

    I don’t get why some on the left are so quick to throw Nancy under the bus.

    Her being a “pushy woman” might have something to do with that.

    Don’t kid yourself for a nanosecond that the Left is immune to that sort of thing.

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