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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2018 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Learning NOTHING from History

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Learning NOTHING from History

by Anne Laurie|  February 20, 20186:03 am| 234 Comments

This post is in: Election 2018, Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, Russiagate, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?, Our Failed Media Experiment

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(Jeff Danziger’s website)
.

Thank you Mr. President for the support. I hope that over the course of the campaign I also earn the support and endorsement of the people of Utah.

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) February 20, 2018

Mitt Romney is once again trying to kill me — and his own chances. (There’s only so much my blood pressure can handle.) We are told that Trump is about as popular among Mormons as Aunt Vidalisa’s potato salad that put half the family in the ER after last year’s reunion picnic, so *WHY* is Mitt crawling to him for affirmation?

Mitt & Trump share an awareness that they will never live up to the expectations or accomplishments of their fathers.

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) February 20, 2018

Think I’ll have to throw some cash at Jenny Wilson, in protest, even if The Smart Take is that a pro-life choice woman can’t win in Utah…

If Trump had said 4 years ago the things he says today about the KKK, Muslims, Mexicans, disabled, I would NOT have accepted his endorsement

— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) March 3, 2016

So why did you accept it today?https://t.co/aE6NdMd1nW

— Jenny Wilson for UT (@JennyWilsonUT) February 20, 2018

From Utah, for Utah. It's time for a homegrown leader who knows what everyday Utahns need.

Chip in if you agree that this Senate seat belongs to the people of our state, not an out-of-state member of the national establishment: https://t.co/CfHS0eJtIG pic.twitter.com/MNpR0jGLNG

— Jenny Wilson for UT (@JennyWilsonUT) February 16, 2018

***********

In related news, an excellent warning from one journo to her fellows:

I'd also like to add, as a fellow journalist, I'd ask you folks in politics to reconsider showboating about your skepticism on Russiagate. While you're rubbing your chins and pooh-poohing collusion, you could be missing out on the story of this (and every) century. It's big, IMO.

— Heidi N Moore (@moorehn) February 19, 2018


I understand that it is an enormous sacrifice to ask political media to give up "wry, knowing contempt" for Lent, but this is also a good time to mention that key parts of the major palace-intrigue coverage of Trump have been entirely incorrect. Kelly as a moderating force, e.g.

— Heidi N Moore (@moorehn) February 19, 2018

History has a right side and a wrong side. We don't always get to see clearly, in real time, which is which. But this is a rare, reliable case in which media giving Trumpsters the benefit of the doubt has only served to make the media look ridiculous. Trumpsters keep lying to you

— Heidi N Moore (@moorehn) February 19, 2018

In other words, to put in the terms of ….well, let's call it enlightened self-interest… you can have your skepticism of Russiagate, or you can have your Pulitzer for helping to uncover an unprecedented threat to the integrity of the American presidency. You cannot have both.

— Heidi N Moore (@moorehn) February 19, 2018

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Reader Interactions

234Comments

  1. 1.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 6:10 am

    Never heard of Ms. Moore, but I’m liking her tweets.

  2. 2.

    RedDirtGirl

    February 20, 2018 at 6:10 am

    Good morning everyone!

  3. 3.

    Bobby Thomson

    February 20, 2018 at 6:12 am

    Considering the media’s behavior goes beyond mere skepticism and mean girl snarkiness to affirmative support of and complicity in the corruption and treason, good luck with that.

  4. 4.

    Magda in Black

    February 20, 2018 at 6:12 am

    Love Ms Moore.
    Unfortunately our corporate yes men of the media aren’t going to rock the boat.

  5. 5.

    Barney

    February 20, 2018 at 6:14 am

    Talking of learning from history:

    Trump ranks as worst president in poll of scholars

    President Trump came in last place in an expert ranking of “presidential greatness,” according to the 2018 Presidents & Executive Politics Presidential Greatness Survey released by Boise State University Monday.

    The survey was conducted among 170 current and recent members of the Presidents & Executive Politics Section of the American Political Science Association, which is a group of scholars dedicated to studying the American presidency.

    These experts were asked to rank each president on a scale from zero (worst) to 100 (best) based on their overall performance in office. With this, Mr. Trump came in last place with an average score of 12.34.

    Even among Republican respondents, Mr. Trump still ranked extremely low, earning the 40th spot for presidential greatness. These Republicans labeled James Buchanan — whose presidency saw the secession of seven states before the Civil War — as the all-time worst and George Washington as the best.
    …
    In this round of questioning, former president Barack Obama moved up in the rankings to 8th best president, whereas in 2014 he came in at 18th. Scholars identifying as Republican, however, ranked Obama 16th. Ronald Reagan, who also moved up from his previous ranking, trails behind Obama in 9th place.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-ranks-as-worst-president-in-poll-of-scholars/

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 6:14 am

    Good Morning Everyone ???

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 6:16 am

    Hillary is supposed to go somewhere, knit and never be heard from again…but, Willard can run for office and it’s okay?
    Phuck Outta Here ???

  8. 8.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 6:16 am

    @RedDirtGirl: @rikyrah: Good morning ?!

  9. 9.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 6:18 am

    Moore’s tweets are pure ?!!

  10. 10.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 6:19 am

    @rikyrah: I’m sure he figures he can take another crack at running for President after his party comes to it’s senses post-Drumpf. Sadly for rMoney, that’s never going to happen.

  11. 11.

    JPL

    February 20, 2018 at 6:23 am

    @rikyrah: It’s okay if you are a republican white guy.

  12. 12.

    mezz

    February 20, 2018 at 6:23 am

    I for one am glad Presidents’ Day is over. I fking HATE those stupid polls that rank Presidents. Especially those of political scientists, but even charlatan “historians” (looking at you Beschloss, Meacham, DKG). The rankings are worse than stupidly useless.

    It is only becoming possible, IMO, to assess historically Bill Clinton’s presidency. (And he is not faring well, I would argue.) How Trump is already ranking at/near the bottom is absurd. He’ll get there in his own time, seriously. Just stop already.

    – Signed, an Actual Historian (teaching a History of American Presidents class this semester to boot!)

  13. 13.

    MattF

    February 20, 2018 at 6:26 am

    One word answer to why Mitt accepts Trump’s endorsement:
    Ambition.

    It’s his defining flaw.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 6:27 am

    The Smart Take is that a pro-life woman can’t win in Utah…

    ???? Pro Choice?

    @Barney:

    Ronald Reagan, who also moved up from his previous ranking, trails behind Obama in 9th place.

    During his dog whistling anti union presidency, reagan infected half of America with a brain eating virus that led us to where we are now. On a scale of 1 to 45 I’d put him no higher than 47.

  15. 15.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 6:38 am

    From the survey, the greatest presidents ranked by liberal historians are : (link – page 5)

    1……….Lincoln
    2……….Franklin Roosevelt
    3……….Washington
    4……….Theodore Roosevelt
    5……….Jefferson
    6……….Obama

    Only 1 year out of office and he’s already number #6.

    I love this, if only because it will piss off the emoprogs and The Village.

  16. 16.

    Thoughtful David

    February 20, 2018 at 6:38 am

    I’m skeptical that Mr. rMoney is ever going to get the title of senator. I think his sell-by date expired about the moment President Obama said “Please proceed, Governor.”

  17. 17.

    p.a.

    February 20, 2018 at 6:38 am

    Elite media do their job? And give up their cocktail parties?

    Historians? Social Scientists? Just poll the only people that matter: the .01%-ers. Ronnie, W right at the top. Jury still out on Trump: future rating devalued because of tumbril potential.

  18. 18.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 6:40 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning!

  19. 19.

    Frankensteinbeck

    February 20, 2018 at 6:44 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    We agree completely about Reagan. The racists were there and slowly getting crazier, but he told them that kleptocrats could save the white race. The damage done by that alliance has been unspeakable. Oh, and he convinced only slightly racist whites that ‘racism’ was a dirty word.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 6:46 am

    @JPL: It’s also OK if you are an unaffiliated old white guy from Vermont.

  21. 21.

    Betty Cracker

    February 20, 2018 at 6:47 am

    “Wry, knowing contempt” is a good description for the Beltway media point of view. I usually think of it as “ironic distance,” which is similar. Whatever you call it, it’s difficult to calculate what it has cost the nation.

  22. 22.

    msdc

    February 20, 2018 at 6:49 am

    We are told that Trump is about as popular among Mormons as Aunt Vidalisa’s potato salad that put half the family in the ER after last year’s reunion picnic, so *WHY* is Mitt crawling to him for affirmation?

    Because the so-called “moderate” Republicans always fold in the end, or, in this case, in the prologue.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 6:50 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 6:51 am

    @RedDirtGirl: Good morning.

  25. 25.

    SFAW

    February 20, 2018 at 6:51 am

    Oh, Heidi, STFU. It is clearly obvious that Hitlary would have been oodles worser, and probably have done something like demanded a military parade in her honor, done her utmost to destroy the environment, etc

    Or so DOCTOR Jill Vladimirovna Stalin Stein tells me.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 6:51 am

    @satby: Good morning.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 6:52 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Good morning.

  28. 28.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 6:52 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning (again)!

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    February 20, 2018 at 6:53 am

    @Betty Cracker:
    “Cult of savvy”?

    @msdc:
    Romney was never moderate. His policy positions were appalling, and he gets too much credit for things that he tried and failed to stop as governor. As polite racists who think the poors have it too easy, pundits really want you to believe that any Republican who can speak without frothing at the mouth is reasonable and mature.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 6:56 am

    @mezz:

    It is only becoming possible, IMO, to assess historically Bill Clinton’s presidency.

    Not for another two decades at least.

  31. 31.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 6:57 am

    @mezz:

    Maybe you can answer a question for me: Rachel Maddow covered this survey last night, and I was surprised to see Theodore Roosevelt rated so highly (#4, if I remember correctly). WTF? Trust-busting? Carrying a big stick?

  32. 32.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 6:57 am

    @Steeplejack: Good morning.

  33. 33.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 7:02 am

    @Baud: Good morning to you!
    @Steeplejack: and to you!
    @OzarkHillbilly: ?

  34. 34.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 7:02 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    I second your recommendation on the excellent tweet thread by Heidi N. Moore and recommend that readers start at the top—“Why is there reason to believe Trump colluded, as opposed to driving his clown car into the White House?”—and read all the way through.

    It’s a good recap/​summation and advances some very good points, e.g.:

    This is hard to accept as a baseline: That we allowed an illegitimate president to take over. More importantly, to believe Trump colluded makes it impossible to believe that Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate. And many in media made their names in 2016 saying she was.— Heidi N Moore (@moorehn) February 19, 2018

  35. 35.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 7:06 am

    It’s 60° right now and the rain that’s been falling since yesterday melted to remaining four inches of snow, so now we’re under a flood watch. Shouldn’t be as bad as what Cole went through, but it’s all going to freeze overnight tonight.

  36. 36.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 7:07 am

    Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

    [email protected] was a disaster candidate who had no guts and choked! Romney is a total joke, and everyone knows it!

    9:57 AM – 5 Mar 2016 (link)

    “I could have said, ‘Mitt, drop to your knees.’ He would have dropped to his knees.” ~ Drumpf (link)

    “The last election should have been won, except Romney choked like a dog. He choked. He went,” Trump paused to grab his neck and imitate choking and then said, “I can’t breathe! I can’t breathe, he said.” (link)

  37. 37.

    NorthLeft12

    February 20, 2018 at 7:07 am

    I guess the part that I find hard to believe is how the press [not sure how much but it feels like a majority of it] continues to rely on sources that have lied to them time after time after time. I’m sure most of these reporters know in advance exactly what the high level source is going to tell them based on their position and party, yet I guess they need to hear it whispered into their ears to be able to pass it on to us….the ignorant and gullible public.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 7:07 am

    @Steeplejack:

    More importantly, to believe Trump colluded makes it impossible to believe that Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate. 

    Mueller could uncover video of Trump and Putin personally changing votes in Pennsylvania and the haters will still spend 80% of their time talking about how Hillary was a bad candidate.

  39. 39.

    debbie

    February 20, 2018 at 7:08 am

    @satby:

    Very impressive, considering she’s been with the WSJ.

  40. 40.

    debbie

    February 20, 2018 at 7:10 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    Wait, wait. Hatch told Trump he was the greatest president ever. Greater, even, than Washington and Lincoln!. Your ratings must be a lie!

  41. 41.

    Amir Khalid

    February 20, 2018 at 7:10 am

    @mezz:
    One’s own politics will inevitably influence a historian’s or political scientist’s (or for that matter a layman’s) comparative assessment of POTUSes. (POTi?) It’s the same sort of parlour game as a pop-culture magazine’s list of the year’s ten best movies or albums or Rolling Stone‘s all-time best drummers list. It grossly oversimplifies the complexity of any President’s time in office down to one vague measure. I wonder why a serious academic would take part.

  42. 42.

    debbie

    February 20, 2018 at 7:11 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    In his original announcement, Romney promised the return of “Utah values,” which I find frightening.

  43. 43.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 7:11 am

    @Steeplejack: maybe when they were filling out their ballot they incorrectly marked the wrong Roosevelt. A transposition error.

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 7:12 am

    @Baud, @satby:

    Still getting the hang of this early-bird thing. I have been up at this time quite often on this blog, but usually at the end of a long night. The last couple of nights I have gone to bed early (for me), around midnight, and that of course has had me popping wide awake about 4:30 or 5:00.

    It has even disrupted the housecat’s routine. She takes pleasure in blasting me awake with “Feed me!” meows about half an hour before dawn—she’s crepuscular!—and now I have been taking a little revenge by jooging her awake as I read in bed for a while. Good times.

    But we’re up and at ’em now. She has had her second breakfast already, and I’m sucking a cup of joe at the real computer. She’s going into her morning doze at her workstation beside me.

  45. 45.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 7:14 am

    @debbie: of course he’s greater. Those losers Lincoln and Washington never slept with a porn star.

  46. 46.

    Jack the Second

    February 20, 2018 at 7:15 am

    Republicans: Let’s not politicize this latest school shooting, out of respect for the victims.
    Victims of latest school shooting: Let’s talk about gun control.
    Republicans: Fffuuuu–

  47. 47.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 7:17 am

    @Steeplejack: The first environmental president.

  48. 48.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 7:19 am

    Jen Rubin in WaPo:

    At least we have clarity. The GOP in its current incarnation is emphatically opposed to any gun measures and to measures (that could pass) to protect dreamers. Voters can cast their ballots accordingly.

  49. 49.

    Sheila in NC

    February 20, 2018 at 7:20 am

    @Steeplejack: Transformational president. The start of the progressive state. Food and drug safety laws. Outlawing child labor. Pulling us out of the Gilded Age. Other stuff I can’t remember off the top of my head but the ranking is entirely appropriate.

  50. 50.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 7:21 am

    @Steeplejack: always been an early riser, which is why I miss most night threads. Usually asleep by 11 and up by 4:30. Would like to sleep longer, but never manage to.

  51. 51.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 7:23 am

    @Sheila in NC: the beginnings of the national park system too, I think.

  52. 52.

    satby

    February 20, 2018 at 7:23 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: yeah, that.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    February 20, 2018 at 7:29 am

    It’s funny to look back on how thoroughly the Clinton’s finances were investigated by the NYTimes.

    This is when they bought a house in New York:

    In this case, the collateral on the loan is the $1.35 million cash put up by Mr. McAuliffe. Thus, this transaction seems to assure Mr. McAuliffe, who is already one of the President’s closest friends and supporters, a significant role in Mr. Clinton’s financial life after he leaves Washington.
    Mr. McAuliffe has amassed a personal fortune through his investments in a home-building firm, a title insurance firm and a mortgage servicing firm. Last night, he was at the Clintons’ side again as they raised money in Syracuse, where, as it turns out, Mr. McAuliffe grew up. He told reporters there that he had ”no closer friends than the President and the First Lady.” The secured-mortgage arrangement was described by other real estate brokers last night as slightly unusual, but not unheard of. Most of all, it seemed a reflection of the Clintons’ financial difficulties: notwithstanding the obvious earning potential of an ex-President from book deals, lectures or corporate boards, White House aides said the family had assets of just over $1 million and legal debts of about $5.2 million. As a result, one of the President’s associates said, banks were a bit wary about providing such a large a mortgage without extra security.
    This loan is a five-year balloon mortgage, which means that the Clintons will have to refinance, or pay back the entire amount, in five years. Such loans typically offer a lower rate than a traditional mortgage.
    In this case, it is an adjustable rate that can change every six months, and will equal one point above the London Interbank Offered Rate, the rate that the most credit-worthy international banks charge each other for large loans.
    The current rate is 5.52 percent, which would yield an interest rate of 6.52 percent for the Clintons. That would mean a monthly mortgage payment of either $7,335 or $8,550, depending on whether the Clintons have an interest-only balloon mortgage or one that includes principal payments as well. In addition, the estimated property taxes are $25,922 a year.
    Mr. Lockhart said that the White House Counsel’s office had ruled that Mr. McAuliffe’s guarantee did not fall under the provisions of Federal gift reporting laws and thus did not have to be listed on the Clintons’ annual disclosure report. Jim Kennedy, a spokesman for the White House Counsel’s Office, said he could not comment on whether that would change if the Clintons defaulted on the loan and Mr. McAuliffe lost his money.

    Does anyone know the first thing about what the Trumps own or owe? How many residences do the Trump’s have? Are they mortgaged? Which bank? What was the down payment and what is the interest rate? What about if they default?

    It is honestly amusing. You cannot honestly read coverage of other Presidents and conclude the coverage of this one is normal. It isn’t. There is a huge gaping hole where information should be!

    And I waited. I thought “okay, they didn’t think he would win, that’s bad because it’s an assumption they made and they shouldn’t be making decisions that drive coverage, but now they’ll catch up”. Then…nothing.

    Incidentally, there’s a piece like this from the Washington Post on the Obama’s home mortgage. The question there was did they get a favorable interest rate. On a single home mortgage! Because we’re worried about corruption!

    Not a WORD on the Trump family finances.

  54. 54.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 7:29 am

    Manafort under scrutiny for $40 million in suspicious transactions

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopold/manafort-under-scrutiny-for-40-million-in-suspicious?utm_term=.adAGQrVkje#.blJRKyQd2L

  55. 55.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 7:32 am

    @Kay:

    As a result, one of the President’s associates said, banks were a bit wary about providing such a large a mortgage without extra security.

    The Clintons were too corrupt for even Russian oligarchs to lend money to. /NYT or Trump or Bros, take your pick.

  56. 56.

    clay

    February 20, 2018 at 7:32 am

    @Steeplejack: Are you saying that trust-busting was a BAD thing? Big fan of oligarchs and monopolies, are you?

    The “big stick” philosophy, for better or worse, set up America’s role in the 20th century as a dominant power that (hopefully, aspirationally) benignly projected liberal values abroad.

    But, if nothing else, TR deserves to be in the top of the list for creating the National Park system.

  57. 57.

    J R in WV

    February 20, 2018 at 7:32 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Barney:

    Ronald Reagan, who also moved up from his previous ranking, trails behind Obama in 9th place.

    During his dog whistling anti union presidency, reagan infected half of America with a brain eating virus that led us to where we are now. On a scale of 1 to 45 I’d put him no higher than 47.

    Reagan was also guilty of committing treason prior to his election and war crimes and US felonies while in office. His treason was to negotiate with the Iranian hostage takers to ask them to hold American prisoners until after the election, so Reagan could run on freeing the prisoners Carter allowed the Iranians to hold.

    Much the same as the treason Nixon committed while running for office by asking the North Vietnamese negotiators at the peace talks in Paris to refuse to deal fairly with LB Johnson, telling them he Nixon would make a better deal that Johnson could. Of course we know how that ended up, with 6 more years of death raining from the sky upon Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, finished up with Watergate break-in, a failed cover-up, nearly impeached before he resigned.

    Reagan also sold arms to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard (illegally) and used that income to fund right-wing death squads in Central America, which is part of the reason we still have illegal immigration from that part of the world. He destablized Central America just as Bush shattered stability in the Middle East. We’ll never know how many people died from Reagan’s illegal acts close to home.

    I believe that since Eisenhower every Republican president has committed treason and war crimes. Mostly it is obvious to any skeptical observer. George H W Bush (Bush the First) was less conspicuous that the others, given his background running the CIA, but I’m convinced he was stirring the pot just like all the others. They have no morality, no ethics, and very little shame.

  58. 58.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 7:35 am

    @rikyrah:

    Wachovia officials also flagged $25,000 in “fraudulent charges” at Duane Reade stores in New York City in September 2007. Bank officials said the debit card was in Manafort’s possession during that time

    25 thousand dollars in purchase at a drug store. That’s a lot of aspirin.

  59. 59.

    SFAW

    February 20, 2018 at 7:36 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    We Massholes have known for quite a while that Mittens has been one of the biggest political whores around. And for that comparison, I apologize to honest prostitutes everywhere.

  60. 60.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 7:37 am

    The story of how Russia interfered with Pennsylvania in 2016.

    https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/965804895948410881

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2018 at 7:39 am

    Good morning, all. Glad to see Teddy Roosevelt getting some love. He was a transformative president. Always think of him with trustbusting and the great outdoors.

    Who cares how cynical the DC press corpse is? They’re gonna get left in the dust like everything else.

    Concentrate your attention on that which is moving forward.

  62. 62.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 7:39 am

    @Baud:

    White House aides said the family had assets of just over $1 million and legal debts of about $5.2 million.

    And when Hillary said they were broke when they left office the Bros and the Village flailed her.

  63. 63.

    magurakurin

    February 20, 2018 at 7:39 am

    @rikyrah: Josh Marshal wrote today that Manafort is looking at 80 years already…and now more charges. He is going to flip. And I bet he flips on Jared. Then Jared flips on Don Jr. and the real Shakespearean tragedy unfolds when Don Jr. flips on Dad. I can hear Meuller now, ” remember how he embarrassed you that day at Penn when he slapped you and made you put on suit before the ballgame?”

  64. 64.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 7:40 am

    @Elizabelle: Good morning.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 7:40 am

    @NorthLeft12:

    I guess the part that I find hard to believe is how the press [not sure how much but it feels like a majority of it] continues to rely on sources that have lied to them time after time after time.

    Moore sort of covers this in her thread. She calls it the “efficient markets hypothesis of Trump,” i.e., the Trumpsters compulsively blab all the time and can’t keep a secret. The unspoken corollary to that is that they’re blabbing the truth. So what comes out is all too often accepted at face value and “all bad news is already known and factored in to the Trump market, if you will.”

    But she blows that out of the water. “We only found out about Stormy Daniels last month—clearly the Trump camp managed to not blab about that for 15 months. Even more extreme, WE STILL HAVE NOT SEEN HIS TAX RETURNS. So, yes, Trump can keep a secret.”

    And the White House press corps is often so concerned about “access” that they forget about reporting. I can’t find it now, but Maggie Haberman had a tweet after one of the big revelations in which, after being asked “How did you miss this?,” she said, “We couldn’t believe how successfully they lied to us for so long.” W. T. F.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    February 20, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @Baud:

    I love the explanation of an adjustable rate mortgage. They calculated the monthly payments!

    I wonder what Trump pays every month, for anything. To anyone. He votes in NY. Is that campaign headquarters he used his legal residence? Does he own it? What else does he own?

    These are property records. They have those in NY, I bet!

    One of the criminal investigations into Trump’s family was leaked this week and it appears the Trump’s have credit card debt. Now, that’s probably a monthly roll over and I assume they pay it off every month, but let’s calculate the monthly on 50k at 24% .

    Why aren’t these ordinary investigations done? Bankruptcy courts have a shorthand they use- “what do you own and what do you owe?” These people have filed bankruptcy! Numerous times! There are no records of any Trump transactions when he owns real estate and files bankruptcy? How could that be?

  67. 67.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I remember.

  68. 68.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 7:43 am

    @Kay: I’m a little surprised a group like ProPublica hasn’t done that work by now.

  69. 69.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2018 at 7:44 am

    @Baud: Good morning.

    Caught “The Year of Living Dangerously” in predawn hours. That is a good flick, and still way too sophisticated for me.

  70. 70.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 7:44 am

    @satby:

    Well, now that you’re retired, you can explore the wonders of the occasional afternoon siesta. Very refreshing!

  71. 71.

    Luthe

    February 20, 2018 at 7:46 am

    @rikyrah: Yes, but did Romney ever use a private email server?

  72. 72.

    Thoughtful David

    February 20, 2018 at 7:48 am

    @satby:
    Jenghazi Rubin in WaPo, previously (somewhat paraphrased): “Don’t vote for demonrats ever. They’re evil, Evil, EEVIL! Hitlary is EEEEEEEEVIL! Destroy demonrats now and forever!”

    She may be right now, but she has a lot to atone for. She spent literally decades laying the groundwork for Trump. If she stays the course as she is for a couple more decades, maybe I’ll trust her.

  73. 73.

    James E Powell

    February 20, 2018 at 7:48 am

    Heidi Moore is right, if two years too late, but Haberman, the NYT, the people on the Sunday and cable shows, and the White House press have made it clear that they don’t see things the way she does. They see Trump as a goldmine, he draws audiences. They are having a great time.

    It’s like Heidi Moore is asking the war correspondents to write articles that prevent wars.

  74. 74.

    Adria McDowell

    February 20, 2018 at 7:48 am

    @mezz: Serious question, how is Beschloss a charlatan? Another serious question, how is Clinton’s presidency not fairing well historically?

    And nah, Trump’s presidency is pretty terrible already, but we don’t need rankings to tell us that. However, I would agree that ranking any president since Reagan is kinda pointless. The repercussions of a presidency can take some time to develop.

  75. 75.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 7:48 am

    When I first heard the news, I knew that I had to go to Leslie Jones’s Twitter feed and find her reaction, cause my reaction to the news was WHAT THE PHUCK ???

    https://twitter.com/Lesdoggg/status/965563238741041152

  76. 76.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 7:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly, @Sheila in NC:

    Ah, good points. I wasn’t questioning the ranking so much as what got him there. Thanks for jogging my memory.

    @clay:

    Are you saying that trust-busting was a BAD thing? Big fan of oligarchs and monopolies, are you?

    Jesus, where do you get that?!

  77. 77.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 7:49 am

    @J R in WV: Yeah but my reply could fit on a t-shirt. ;-)

  78. 78.

    JPL

    February 20, 2018 at 7:49 am

    @magurakurin: Manafort probably has enough to take down Don Jr., and that is when Trump takes down Mueller. Hopefully, Schneiderman then files charges in NY>

  79. 79.

    Schlemazel

    February 20, 2018 at 7:49 am

    @Steeplejack:
    I’m not mezz but here is my take on TR

    He established the national parks system. The trust busting thing which was part of his larger progressive agenda. This was also a tipping point where the progressives were driven out of the GOP and made peace with the Southern Dems. Over the next 20 years the GOP became the party of big business and Dems took the mantle of progressive that led to FDR.

  80. 80.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 7:51 am

    @Steeplejack:
    She nails it. Many in the MSM did malpractice during 2016

  81. 81.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 7:52 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Well, he IS a headache (for someone I’m sure).

  82. 82.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 20, 2018 at 7:54 am

    @Steeplejack: I was a bit surprised by that too, and then I went back to the Wikipedia page that lists results from these “rank the presidents” exercises going back decades… and TR is very frequently ranked #4. I’d say he’s the most common President put there after the Big Three that almost everyone puts in the top spots (Lincoln, FDR, George Washington in some order–a neat choice because you’ve got one from the 18th, 19th, 20th century).

    I’m not sure I agree, but it’s a common thing among historians.

  83. 83.

    Lapassionara

    February 20, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @Steeplejack: There is a recreated boyhood home of Teddy Roosevelt in NYC. I highly recommend a visit there.

    There are some sayings of his on display, and if I knew how, I would share my photos of them. In effect, he understood the need for regulations and for rules curbing corporations. We could use a leader with his perspective right now.

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 7:56 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Great movie. Excellent score, Linda Hunt before NCIS: Los Angeles and Mel Gibson before evil Mel Gibson. And Sigourney Weaver!

  85. 85.

    sdhays

    February 20, 2018 at 7:56 am

    We are told that Trump is about as popular among Mormons as Aunt Vidalisa’s potato salad that put half the family in the ER after last year’s reunion picnic

    Who’s been saying that? I remember hearing about how much Mormons disliked Trump before the election (maybe they’ll vote for that conservative independent guy who’s name escapes me and is irrelevant now and throw Utah to Hillary!), and they all happily voted for Trump. It’s all bullshit. Conservative Mormons are just like other members of the Russian Nationalist Party. Orrin Hatch loves him some Trump. Utah Republicans (primarily Mormons) love Trump. And Utah Republicans won’t punish Mitt if Trump goes down during the campaign.

    I think Texas is possible (if Doug Jones could win in Alabama, then…), but Mitt’s challenge in Utah is the primary, not the general election. I can’t imagine a scenario where he becomes so toxic that he loses the general election (even though he richly deserves to).

  86. 86.

    Kay

    February 20, 2018 at 7:59 am

    @Baud:

    I’m a little surprised a group like ProPublica hasn’t done that work by now.

    I donated to propublica once in the hope they would investigate and write and other outlets would pick it up but the fake IRS scandal proved to me that other outlets won’t pick it up.

    Propublica debunked the fake IRS scandal almost immediately, with their usual exhaustive records back up.

    It didn’t matter. They went with “scandal” anyway.

    Market principles don’t explain our media. It’s not markets. Even if someone else does the work they want the narrative they want and they cannot be convinced.

  87. 87.

    clay

    February 20, 2018 at 8:02 am

    @Steeplejack: I got that idea from you saying “WTF? Trust busting?”

  88. 88.

    Adria McDowell

    February 20, 2018 at 8:03 am

    Going to see Black Panther this morning with my husband, and we are so stinking excited!

  89. 89.

    Baud

    February 20, 2018 at 8:04 am

    @Kay: True, but they still do work even though news outlets ignore them.

  90. 90.

    Jeffro

    February 20, 2018 at 8:05 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    pundits really want you to believe that any Republican who can speak without frothing at the mouth is reasonable and mature.

    Yup. This will be the #1 danger to the Republic, post-Trumpov: that absolute loons like Ernst and Cotton will be considered ‘center-right’ and acceptable to the powers that be.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    February 20, 2018 at 8:05 am

    @Baud:

    What’s the market explanation for Chris Matthews? He’s objectively horrible.

    There was no market explanation for Matt Lauer. He was overpaid. They believed he was essential. He wasn’t.

    If it’s a market it’s broken.

  92. 92.

    Bobby Thomson

    February 20, 2018 at 8:06 am

    @Steeplejack: National Park System; co-opted some of the more popular positions of LaFollette.

  93. 93.

    JMG

    February 20, 2018 at 8:06 am

    @Kay: At the very top of the media food chain, there is a marked tendency, almost a mania, among outlets that if “we didn’t report it, it didn’t happen.” This institutional arrogance goes back almost as long as I’ve been able to read. The Times Watergate coverage sucked because the Post kept breaking stories, which the Times then relatively ignored. By the same token, the Times’ Vietnam War coverage was superior to the Post’s largely for the same reason. This arrogance accounts for the astonishing defensiveness of those institutions. They think so highly of themselves that being told you are in error here as always seen as a personal attack on motives, worth as people, etc.

  94. 94.

    Waldo

    February 20, 2018 at 8:07 am

    NPR just announced that it is going to interview an FBI guy to find if it’s true that the Russia investigation caused the Fla. school massacre, as Trump claims.

    I’m sure they’ll conclude that’s hyperbole, but, yeah, this exactly what Ms. Moore is talking about.

  95. 95.

    Bobby Thomson

    February 20, 2018 at 8:07 am

    @Kay:

    What’s the market explanation for Chris Matthews?

    Show business suits always go with a known entity over something new.

  96. 96.

    Bobby Thomson

    February 20, 2018 at 8:08 am

    @Waldo: “coming up next, do the Jews actually control the international banking system? Opinions differ.”

  97. 97.

    sdhays

    February 20, 2018 at 8:09 am

    @Kay: Add Brian Williams to that list. No one was demanding that NBC figure out a way to keep paying him after he was outed as a lying liar, but they found a way anyway (and I’m sure they’re paying him more than anyone else they could have found to read the news). Who is tuning into MSNBC to see what Brian has to say?

  98. 98.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 8:10 am

    Proverbial bad penny accepts endorsement from proverbial bad seed.

  99. 99.

    zhena gogolia

    February 20, 2018 at 8:10 am

    Does anybody here watch “Cole and Marmalade” cat videos on YouTube? Along with crossword puzzles, they’re what’s getting me through the Trump era.

  100. 100.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 20, 2018 at 8:10 am

    @Kay: The problem with his properties, I’d bet, is that everything is carefully hidden behind multiple layers of private companies and REIT’s. That’s not an excuse, but he’s been doing skeevy real-estate transactions most of his adult life, and there’s a whole industry of people in and around NYC who work at covering up who owns what. Neither the Obamas nor the Clintons engaged in those kinds of transactions.

  101. 101.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 20, 2018 at 8:11 am

    @Lapassionara: He was also a major-league racist and imperialist, in a very turn-of-the-20th-century way. And an egotist with childlike enthusiasms who other world leaders often talked about in an almost Trumpian way. …And a competent naturalist and a Nobel Peace Prize winner for negotiating the end of the Russo-Japanese War.

    A complicated man.

  102. 102.

    GregB

    February 20, 2018 at 8:11 am

    @rikyrah:

    Rikyrah.

    From that article:

    “Angry patriots are about to paint Philly red,” one account, singled out in Mueller’s indictment, tweeted on Sept. 29, 2016. “say no to lies, corruption and tyranny!”

    Trump is literally the epitome of lies. corruption and tyranny.

    I think, if this story every gets told truthfully, there will be dots connected about how Trump beat the odds and the pollsters not because of a brilliant strategy, but because he cheated, lied and stole the election.

    Dirty Don is the King of Lies.

  103. 103.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2018 at 8:11 am

    @Kay: It’s a market that reflects the media owners and their associates. It’s seriously broken, and I hope Trump takes big scared media down with him.

  104. 104.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 8:14 am

    ‘Sloppy and careless’: courts call out Trump blitzkrieg on environmental rules

    The reversal of Obama’s environmental legacy has been spearheaded by Scott Pruitt, who heads the EPA, the agency he repeatedly sued as Oklahoma attorney general. Pruitt, who accused Obama of “bending the rule of law” and federal overreach, has overseen the methodical delay or scrapping of dozens of rules curbing pollution from power plants, pesticides and vehicles.

    Ironically for Pruitt, who has touted a “back to basics” approach rooted safely within the confines of the law, this rapidly executed agenda has run into a thicket of legal problems, causing the administration to admit defeat in several cases.

    In July, a federal court ruled that the EPA couldn’t suspend rules designed to curb methane emissions from new oil and gas wells. This was followed by a hasty retreat in August when the EPA agreed to not delay new standards to reduce smog-causing air pollutants, the day after 15 states and environment groups sued.

    Then, in December, a federal court told the EPA it couldn’t delay a new standard for dangerous levels of lead in paint and dust.

    Other arms of the federal government have also been stymied from implementing Trump’s deregulatory agenda. The US Fish and Wildlife Service, stung by a lawsuit, listed the rusty patched bumblebee as endangered in March after initially delaying the decision. And on Thursday, a federal court told the department of energy it must implement four energy efficiency regulations it was looking to scuttle.
    ……………
    The EPA now faces a fresh wave of opposition as it looks to craft replacements for major Obama rules such as the clean power plan, which sought to limit emissions from coal-fired power plants, and the waters of the US rule, which greatly expanded clean water protections.

    If the proposed replacements are, as expected, far less onerous on industry than current iterations, environmentalists and around a dozen states, headed by New York and California, will be poised to further jam up the process in the courts.

    These people are gonna give lawyers a bad rep, doing good like this.

  105. 105.

    Waldo

    February 20, 2018 at 8:15 am

    @zhena gogolia: yeah — they are wonderful. I would say Dodo videos on Facebook are cool, too, but they recently started inserting ads in the middle of them, rendering them unwatchable.

  106. 106.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 8:16 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    My consumption of cooking shows, HGTV and antique ’60s TV has gone way up. I am now studying Peter Gunn with the same laser-like intensity that I brought to my groundbreaking work on Perry Mason.

    ETA: I watch those cat videos, and I also do six crosswords on line every day.

  107. 107.

    Bobby Thomson

    February 20, 2018 at 8:17 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I can get why Washington ranks so highly, warts and all, because his greatest contribution to American democracy can’t be understated. He was the FIRST president. Voluntarily transferring power like that was not a thing.

    But I’ve never understood the consistent Jefferson love from liberals. Yes, he added territory that other colonial powers had already stolen, but so did the Mexican-American war. Yes, he talked a good game about liberty, but then he used the Sedition Act to his advantage once he was elected. That’s without even getting into his personal status as a serial rapist.

  108. 108.

    Tenar Arha

    February 20, 2018 at 8:18 am

    @Waldo: Whut? WHUT?!

    ETA (fixing this) Every-time that I think they’re getting better….

  109. 109.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 8:20 am

    @clay:

    Maybe should have gone with a “Whut?”

  110. 110.

    Mike E

    February 20, 2018 at 8:21 am

    @Waldo: “Does this shooting somehow feel… different?”
    -npr this morning

  111. 111.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 8:21 am

    @sdhays

    Inexplicable to me as well, but the Williams shallow hour consistently ranks among the top 5 on MSNBC, insofar as size of audience, often in the top 3.

    Newton Minow weeps.

  112. 112.

    Thoughtful David

    February 20, 2018 at 8:30 am

    @Bobby Thomson:
    I’m with you on Jefferson.
    I also don’t get Lincoln at #1. He didn’t do a very good job of prosecuting the war, and he only came around to emancipating the slaves when it was forced on him.

  113. 113.

    Mike E

    February 20, 2018 at 8:30 am

    @Bobby Thomson: TR is the first modern president, for good or for bad…there were lots of panicky reactions when he succeeded McKinley (sound familiar?) but he surprised everyone with an unparalleled drive while he was in office.

    He was the first American to win the Nobel Prize; 1st pres to leave the country while in office (Panama); 1st to own a car, fly in an airplane, ride in a tank and dive in a submarine

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 8:32 am

    @Bobby Thomson

    For the record, the Alien & Sedition Acts were a big item in the election of 1800, and his opposition to them helped propel Jefferson to the White House. Early on once in office, he pardoned those imprisoned under the Sedition Act (and Congress reimbursed those pardoned for any fines they had paid). Three of the four Acts were allowed to expire in either 1800 or 1801.

  115. 115.

    Bookeater (formerly JosieJ)

    February 20, 2018 at 8:33 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Yes! Highly recommend maxluvsmya as well: kittens galore! A great, drug-free way to lower blood pressure and anxiety.

  116. 116.

    Mike E

    February 20, 2018 at 8:34 am

    @Thoughtful David: yeah, that Lincoln is soooo overrated

  117. 117.

    sdhays

    February 20, 2018 at 8:39 am

    @NotMax: How much of that is a function of the time slot and general strength of the MSNBC brand during the era of Trump rather than Williams himself, I wonder.

  118. 118.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 8:40 am

    @Mike E

    Also, if memory serves, first president whose voice was recorded.

  119. 119.

    Betty Cracker

    February 20, 2018 at 8:41 am

    In case you missed it, our own Mr. Levenson’s media critique on Twitter.

  120. 120.

    Percysowner

    February 20, 2018 at 8:43 am

    @Adria McDowell:

    Another serious question, how is Clinton’s presidency not fairing well historically?

    I can’t speak to historians, although I do think that it will take a few more years before we can really judge his Presidency. Over at Lawyers, Guns and Money they ranked the post WWII Presidents and although the article ranking is fair, Kennedy is a bit high IMO, the comments suddenly turned to why Clinton (and Jimmy Carter of all people) were the worst Presidents ever because they betrayed liberal politics and, in Carter’s case, didn’t click his heels together and rescue the Iranian hostages all by himself. And there is one guy going on and on about why Obama was a monster to not intervene in Syria. Then a few posters say we just don’t have enough to judge Trump on. Considering it’s a pretty liberal site, the comments are enlightening to say the least. They are a perfect example of the Democratic circular firing squad.

  121. 121.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 8:44 am

    @Elizabelle:
    TR gave us the National Parks. He will always deserve respect because of that.

  122. 122.

    oldgold

    February 20, 2018 at 8:45 am

    @Bobby Thomson:
    I agree that Washintom, a military hero, establishing the tradition of voluntarily transferring power justifies his high ranking.

  123. 123.

    GregB

    February 20, 2018 at 8:45 am

    Two special elections tonight.

    Seats vacated because of the following:

    Kentucky House of Representatives, District 49

    The race: Linda Belcher (D) and Rebecca Johnson (R) will run for the Kentucky House of Representatives. The incumbent, Dan Johnson (R), a former pastor, died by suicide in December after being accused of molesting a 17-year-old girl in 2013.

    Mississippi House of Representatives, District 60

    The race: Morris Mock Jr., Jim Giles, Bob Morrow, and Fred Shanks will run for the Mississippi House of Representatives after incumbent John Moore (R) resigned, citing health reasons. Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn (R) has said that Moore was facing multiple sexual harassment complaints at the time of his resignation.

  124. 124.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    February 20, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @GregB: Cheating, lying, and stealing is Trump’s idea of a brilliant strategy.

  125. 125.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @Adria McDowell:
    WAKANDA FOREVER ???

  126. 126.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @rikyrah

    With appropriate props to Gifford Pinchot.

  127. 127.

    geg6

    February 20, 2018 at 8:47 am

    @NotMax:

    You got there before me. Yes, this.

  128. 128.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 8:47 am

    @Mike E:

    1st to own a car, fly in an airplane, ride in a tank and dive in a submarine

    Shhhhhh…. you’ll give trump ideas.

  129. 129.

    Adria McDowell

    February 20, 2018 at 8:48 am

    @Percysowner: I’m a big fan of LGM, but I think it’s too early to really assess Clinton’s presidency, let alone Obama’s. In my totally-dumbass-opinion.

    There are commenters there whose opinions I really respect (just like there are quite a few commenters here that I really respect), but they have their share of idiots over there, too, just like our usual suspects here.

  130. 130.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    February 20, 2018 at 8:48 am

    @Bobby Thomson: To me, Chris Matthews is like a whole of both D and R politicians, and for all I know business leaders. An old white guy who’s been around forever and has no intention of stepping aside. Everyone just accepts his presence as long as he doesn’t do something criminal or scandalous.

  131. 131.

    geg6

    February 20, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @Percysowner:

    I can never read the comments there. So much stupid slung around with so much intellectual arrogance. Ugh.

  132. 132.

    Peale

    February 20, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @Percysowner: I’m beginning to think that I may be the only American who was not personally harmed by the Clinton presidency.

  133. 133.

    Alain the site fixer

    February 20, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @Steeplejack: try the original Hawaii Five-O. It’s a great thing you can study for years! ?

  134. 134.

    Waldo

    February 20, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @Mike E: I heard that. To be fair, I also heard Steve (I think) make a GOP interviewee squirm over the party’s 2nd Amendment absolutism in the wake of the massacre. Briefly and cordially, of course.

  135. 135.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @rikyrah: First thing I think of with TR. He will always be top drawer to me.

    The National Parks are treasures.

  136. 136.

    Betty Cracker

    February 20, 2018 at 8:51 am

    Regarding ranking presidencies, I agree it’s too early to judge Trump’s, but I’m personally convinced Trump is the worst person who ever served as president and will likely retain that distinction for the duration of the republic. And yes, I realize that past presidents include out-and-proud racists, sexist pigs and genocidal monsters.

  137. 137.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 8:51 am

    @Thoughtful David: You don’t go to war with the generals you want, you go to war with generals you have.

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2018 at 8:53 am

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t see how Trump is not, and does not remain, the worst president in history. There is nothing presidential about him, and he puts himself ahead of the country’s interests. He is a thief who cheated his way into an office he does not deserve. He is destroying the country.

  139. 139.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 8:53 am

    @GregB:

    incumbent John Moore (R) resigned, citing health reasons. Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn (R) has said that Moore was facing multiple sexual harassment complaints at the time of his resignation.

    His wife was going to kill him.

  140. 140.

    Tenar Arha

    February 20, 2018 at 8:54 am

    @rikyrah: Saw it yesterday, & it was superb!

  141. 141.

    mai naem mobile

    February 20, 2018 at 8:55 am

    @Percysowner: post WWII worst ever and Nixon and Dubbya don’t make the bottom two? I don’t count Dolt45 because he’s not done yet.

  142. 142.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    February 20, 2018 at 8:56 am

    He’s really agitated this morning. Looks like sundowning.

  143. 143.

    Chyron HR

    February 20, 2018 at 8:58 am

    @oldgold:

    I like politicians who voluntarily give up power, wink wink.

    Wow, I can’t imagine where you’re going with this.

  144. 144.

    oldgold

    February 20, 2018 at 9:02 am

    @Chyron HR:

    Not today!

  145. 145.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 20, 2018 at 9:02 am

    The media’s R tilt is no accident and it didn’t it start with T. It is not restricted to presidential level politics either, just look at the fawning coverage Paul Ryan gets even now, compared to Nancy Pelosi. It cannot be explained away as “market forces” or the cult of savvy either. It is deliberate and it is killing our democracy.

    ETA: Or see how they tried to both-sides the immigration debate. The media helps Rs lie with impunity.

  146. 146.

    Aimai

    February 20, 2018 at 9:03 am

    @sdhays: correct. 50 percent a pro trump.

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 9:03 am

    @Steeplejack

    Story from when they made the Peter Gunn movie was that no guitar player the producers auditioned was able to replicate the sound of the theme satisfactorily. Someone checked and discovered that, lo and behold, Duane Eddy (guitarist for the most popular and recognizable version) was alive and well. He was hired lickety-split.

  148. 148.

    Betty Cracker

    February 20, 2018 at 9:05 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yep. I keep waiting for him to attack the Parkland kids. It would not surprise me in the least. Dim Son already did so, vicariously, by retweeting some Gateway Pundit ghoul.

  149. 149.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 9:06 am

    @Alain the site fixer:

    I hate Jack Lord! And that show has a really fascist vibe. I’ve been occasionally watching Mannix and Cannon, although they are pretty cheesy. The Rockford Files is still the gold standard from that (approximate) period. I wish MeTV or one of those channels would run Harry O. That was a quirky series I’d like to see again.

  150. 150.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2018 at 9:08 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Agree completely with your comments re the media.

  151. 151.

    GregB

    February 20, 2018 at 9:08 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The kicker from the article, the wife is pulling a Jean Carnahan and running for her dead husband’s seat.

    The political pathology of this era is something to behold.

  152. 152.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 20, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I think I counted seven tweets in just the past hour or so.

  153. 153.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:11 am

    @Aimai: Read recently that trump has a 61% approval rating among Utah Mormons, but any other repub would get 83% approval. This is proof of how morally repugnant Mormons find trump.

  154. 154.

    Bobby Thomson

    February 20, 2018 at 9:12 am

    @NotMax: but.

  155. 155.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 9:13 am

    @Steeplejack

    Short-lived, but remember The Snoop Sisters (Helen Hayes and Mildred Natwick) from that same period as being a cut above the average.

    Should you come across them, also have recollection of quite enjoying the 60s series Ellery Queen and Checkmate. No idea how well they hold up now.

  156. 156.

    J R in WV

    February 20, 2018 at 9:21 am

    I really think the Mass Mainstream Media is controlled by the same people who control the Russo-Republican Party, whoever that is. Not Putin, but the uber-wealthy movers and shakers who control the world’s economy to some extent. The “publishers” are given their walking orders, which are passed to editors and lead reporters.

    What is “investigated” is what uber-boss knows is there to be found and published. No one is encouraged to investigate out there on their own, lest they discover things better left unsaid. I know this sounds paranoid, but how else to explain the lack or information about Trump – the kind of information openly available about every other politician in the country. We know about the Obama’s mortgages and property, the Clinton’s. We don’t know about McCain or Mittens Romney, though, do we?

    How long has the Russo-Republican party been owned and operated for the benefit on unknown entities? How long since the Russo-Republican party operated for the benefit of working people, doctors, accountants, ordinary people with plenty of money, as opposed to vastly wealthy people like the Kochs, the Hunts, the Bush family, etc? Decades at least!

    That’s how long the NYTimes has been not investigating the Republicans the same way they investigate Democrats!!!

  157. 157.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 9:22 am

    @GregB

    Not an uncommon happenstance. Instance which fist pops into the mind (although far from the first time it occurred) is Mary Bono.

  158. 158.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    February 20, 2018 at 9:24 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It’s bad – he was live tweeting Fox & Friends.

  159. 159.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 9:24 am

    @NotMax:

    There’s great West Coast jazz in almost every episode. Lola Albright (as Edy), “How High the Moon.”

    Even the incidental music is good. Almost every episode starts with a snippet from this.

    A young Diahann Carroll was on one episode as a troubled nightclub singer, and she did a whole song.

    The show is all style. The plots are laughably thin and have to be stretched out even to make a half-hour episode.

  160. 160.

    Phylllis

    February 20, 2018 at 9:26 am

    @NotMax: Do you mean Ellery Queen with Jim Hutton? That was mid-70’s. Terrific show. Also loved the Snoop Sisters.

  161. 161.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:27 am

    In the summer of 2014, an FBI special agent questioned Manafort at his attorney’s office in Washington, DC. Manafort denied knowing anything about money reportedly stolen by the Yanukovych government, according to internal FBI emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News, and promised to turn over documents to the Bureau. He never did, according to the two officials.

    “We had him in 2014,” one of the former officials said. “In hindsight, we could have nailed him then.”

    The FBI’s top brass, both of the former officials said, deemed Manafort’s suspected financial crimes as too petty: They amounted to only tens of millions of dollars — small potatoes compared to what Manafort’s boss, Yanukovych, was suspected of stealing.

    Says it all.

    from the buzzfeed article cited above by rikyrah iirc

  162. 162.

    GregB

    February 20, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @oldgold:

    Here in NH, we have access to a lot of great lectures because we sure loves politics here.

    So, just in the past few months I have seen a lecture titled: Washington, The Indispensable President, that posited that his willingness to lead and then cede power was revolutionary and ultimately a historically selfless act that created a whole new paradigm for heads of state.

    A quick aside, when the Q & A part of the lecture came up, a man attempted to force the lecturer to say that Washington was a Christian and that was what was important and that all of his decisions were based upon Biblical concepts. The lecturer really would not concede to this analysis despite the man taking the microphone three times to try and force his idea.

    Reading: Washington,, The Indispensable President by Stephen Knotts.

    Second lecture had to do with Oney Judge, a fugitive slave who escaped from Washington and lived openly in Portsmouth NH despite Washington’s efforts to have her tracked down and returned.

    Reading: Never Caught by Erica Armstrong Dunbar.

    So, yeah, judging people is pretty complicated.

  163. 163.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Watching “Murder She Wrote” and “Matlock” have been my go-tos when I can no longer tolerate one more second of of our national insanities.

  164. 164.

    But her emails!!!

    February 20, 2018 at 9:32 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    That logic never seems to hold for the guy who steals a couple of frozen pizzas from a corner store.

  165. 165.

    Phylllis

    February 20, 2018 at 9:33 am

    @GregB: I tried Never Caught as an audio book & it would always put me immediately to sleep–due I think to the narrator. Will give it another try in print.

  166. 166.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:34 am

    @J R in WV:

    We don’t know about McCain or Mittens Romney, though, do we?

    We know quite a bit about them. They both have released tax returns and McCain, as a sitting senator has to file financial disclosures every year.

  167. 167.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 9:35 am

    @Phyllis

    Yup, Jim Hutton. Shows the vagaries of memory; remembered it as during the 60s. Thanks for the correction.

  168. 168.

    Betty Cracker

    February 20, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes & @SiubhanDuinne: Whoever runs Fox & Friends (and it sure ain’t the grinning sofa squatters) is the de facto POTUS.

  169. 169.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    February 20, 2018 at 9:37 am

    Someone on here mentioned Hill Street Blues the other day, and I’ve watched a couple of episodes on You Tube. It’s interesting because usually I listen to stuff like that while I browse the internet, but I have to watch HSB to follow what’s going on. It’s much more visual. Partly it’s the huge cast but also it’s less dependent on dialogue than a lot of shows.

  170. 170.

    GregB

    February 20, 2018 at 9:38 am

    @Phylllis:

    If you ever vacation in NH, there is the Portsmouth Black History Trail which covers NH’s small but fascinating African-American community. History shows no recorded racist lynchings in NH and Nashua had the first racially integrated baseball team in the US. 1946 Nashua Dodgers. Also, the first African-American female published author, Harriet Wilson lived in Milford, and there is a statue there in her honor.

  171. 171.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:39 am

    @But her emails!!!: “Kill a few people and your a murderer. Kill millions and you’re a conqueror.”

  172. 172.

    manyakitty

    February 20, 2018 at 9:39 am

    @Kay: I accidentally forgot to change the channel after Ari Melber the other night and ran into Tweety whining about how the “libs” love to complain about everything, Not like I think it mattered to them, but I tweeted a nastygram to MSNBC. Maybe if more people started doing that, he’d go away.

  173. 173.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 20, 2018 at 9:39 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: In the summer of 2014 the FBI did not yet (I believe) have the cooperation of the Ukrainian government, as it was busy with other matters. By now I’m sure they’ve gotten everything the Ukrainians have on him. Many in Ukraine believe Manafort has blood on his hands from the Maidan massacre of four years ago.

  174. 174.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 20, 2018 at 9:40 am

    @Elizabelle: Thanks Elizabelle. Are you back from your European sojourn? How was your trip?

  175. 175.

    zhena gogolia

    February 20, 2018 at 9:40 am

    @Steeplejack:

    I got the music to the theme song arranged for piano. Surprisingly hard to play.

  176. 176.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:41 am

    “I’m going to make sure that this weapon will never take a life.”

    Gun owner destroys rifle after Florida shooting: ‘Now there’s one less’ – video

  177. 177.

    sdhays

    February 20, 2018 at 9:41 am

    @Elizabelle: I think Buchanan presiding over the crack up of the Union while shoving his thumb up his butt is a hard act to beat for worst President ever. I find it difficult to even really imagine what that was like; the pre-war period had some really, really poor leadership and stupid and nasty politics.

    Unfortunately, Trump still has some time to beat him.

  178. 178.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    February 20, 2018 at 9:43 am

    @Steeplejack: I think you’re being too hard on McGarrett. Constantly under siege by the cleaver Wo Fat.

  179. 179.

    ThresherK

    February 20, 2018 at 9:44 am

    @NotMax: I was wise beyond my years for the EQ show. And got an early lesson in how TV ratings work.

  180. 180.

    J R in WV

    February 20, 2018 at 9:45 am

    @Thoughtful David:

    He WON that little war, though, so he did well enough, saved the nation from being shattered by traitors defending slavery, and he DID free the slaves as well. Which changed the nation (and perhaps the world, too) forever, and for the better!!!

    You only think you’re thoughtful, David. Give it another try some time and see how it goes!!

  181. 181.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 9:46 am

    @bemused

    In the same vein (kind of) as Murder She Wrote is the Czech series Kveta Mysteries on Amazon Prime. Sort of an odd duck as while there is some internal story line continuity, each episode is almost a stand alone made-for-TV movie, clocking in at 90 minutes, so the pacing and structure is a departure from that to which we in the U.S. have become accustomed. Not great TV, but creditable. The actress playing the old woman (Kveta) is excellent.

  182. 182.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    February 20, 2018 at 9:47 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’d like those people identified for public shaming.

  183. 183.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:49 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    But the task force didn’t get Yanukovych either. The US government, the former officials said, devoted far too few resources to build a case of the scale and complexity needed to prosecute the former Ukrainian president, and agents assigned to the task force left because they felt they were unable to properly do their jobs.

    When the investigation petered out, the reports on Manafort and the detailed financial records that supported them were all shelved, two former law enforcement officials who worked on his case told BuzzFeed News. But banks continued to send in suspicious activity reports on transactions involving Manafort or his companies all the way through 2016. For instance, in April and September 2015, PNC Bank flagged two transactions for a total of about $75,000.

    They didn’t care about Manafort then, but all the legwork previously done put Mueller on the 5 yard line re him.

  184. 184.

    Kay

    February 20, 2018 at 9:49 am

    Another plea deal in the nothingburger Mueller probe.

    Obviously it’s not proof of wrongdoing but one does have to wonder why these people lie so much.

    I guess we could speculate on whether this is an indication of criminal activity related to coordination with the Trump campaign or just criminal activity in general, but these people lie like other people breathe and no one has offered an explanation on why that is.

    If the media standard is criminal activity does not matter unless it relates to coordination that is a REALLY low standard, and one that has NEVER been applied to a US administration.

    This is a brand new REALLY LOW standard. EXCLUSIVELY given to Donald Trump.

  185. 185.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 9:53 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    LOL. I have a bias against cop shows where they break every rule in the book but it’s okay because they’re never wrong! And Wo Fat was the perfect foil: pure, two-dimensional evil. It wasn’t just okay to hate him—you were actually un-American if you didn’t.

  186. 186.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 9:53 am

    @Steeplejack

    Also too, as you mentioned Perry Mason, have heard from those who purchased the DVD set that The Defenders (with E. G. Marshall, 1961 – 1965) weathers its age very well.

  187. 187.

    Kay

    February 20, 2018 at 9:54 am

    They’re told, too that lying to investigators is a crime all by itself yet they do it anyway.

    These are HUGELY sophisticated actors. They know how this works. These aren’t your average criminal! Thye aren’t like the tens of thousands of ordinary criminals who shuffle thru police interrogations. They are WELL represented. The best defense money can buy and money can buy a good one!

    So is that some risk analysis? The plea deal on the lie is worth it, because telling the truth would be worse?

  188. 188.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 9:55 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The couch sitters don’t get shamed for the intellectually stunted propagandized drivel they utter, why would their masters?

  189. 189.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 9:56 am

    We don’t have terrible internet service (rural here) but I don’t think it’s fast enough for Amazon, Netflick, etc streaming. We love most Masterpiece Theater series and reserve Sunday evenings with popcorn to watch them. Now a pause on local pbs station before new seasons start so I bought Midsomer Murders early cases to fill the void. So far we haven’t had time to watch but part of the first episode.

  190. 190.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 20, 2018 at 9:56 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Like I said, Ukrainians want Manafort in prison. That article, which I haven’t yet read, doesn’t seem to mention the intelligence the FBI is getting from them – maybe the FBI sources are just being circumspect about foreign cooperation – but Manafort had offices in Kyiv, and I’m sure every scrap of paper from them and the contents of every computer have been copied and sent to DC.

  191. 191.

    Amir Khalid

    February 20, 2018 at 9:57 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
    Now that I think about it, it’s amazing that a show set in one of America’s most ethnically diverse states had a character that was so much of a racial Cold War stereotype.

  192. 192.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 9:58 am

    Don Jr. Advises Trump After School Shooting: Don’t Go Wobbly on Guns

    He pushed dad to keep AR-15s legal while they both watched Parkland teen survivors speaking out on TV
    20 FEB 2018 AT 08:45 ET

    President Donald Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., urged his dad not to cave in to calls for gun control as both men watched teens who survived the shooting in Parkland, Florida call for action on TV news programs.

    The Daily Beast reported on Tuesday that Trump Jr. “has been assuring his dad that the right move was to stay strong on gun rights and draw a hard line on the issue that helped propel him in the 2016 election.”

    According to the report, Trump Jr. insisted that his dad refuse to revive any version of the assault weapons ban, which would have prevented the sale of the type of gun used at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    The Daily Beast noted that the discussion came as Trump and his son watched students who survived the shooting call for gun control on TV.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/don-jr-advises-president-trump-post-parkland-dont-go-wobbly-on-guns?ref=home

  193. 193.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 9:58 am

    @NotMax:

    I vaguely remember Checkmate, but that was at the early edge of my TV viewing. We lived in England from 1957 to 1960, so no American TV for me until we got back. I remember it had a good theme song and titles (swirly black and white liquids).

    I wonder why more of these shows don’t show up on the third-tier cable channels like MeTV. I assumed a lot of them were lost forever, for whatever reason, but IMDB seems to indicate that a DVD set of Checkmate is available. Same for Harry O. Second assumption is that, as with almost everything, it’s a tangled issue of ownership rights.

  194. 194.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 9:59 am

    Trump’s ‘no foreign deals’ pledge came with an asterisk
    02/20/18 09:21 AM—UPDATED 02/20/18 09:42 AM
    By Steve Benen
    At a press conference during the presidential transition period last year, a lawyer representing Donald Trump’s business assured the public that “no new foreign deals will be made whatsoever” during the Republican’s presidency.

    And yet, here we are, reading reports like these in the Washington Post.

    The president’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., is making what has been dubbed an unofficial visit to India to promote his family’s real estate projects. But he’s also planning to deliver a foreign policy speech on Indo-Pacific relations at an event with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

    Beginning Tuesday, Trump Jr. will have a full schedule of meet-and-greets with investors and business leaders throughout India, where the Trump family has real estate projects – Mumbai, the New Delhi suburb of Gurgaon, the western city of Pune and the eastern city of Kolkata.

    Jordan Libowitz, the communications director for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), told the Post, “Trump’s company is literally selling access to the president’s son overseas. For many people wanting to impact American policy in the region, the cost of a condo is a small price to pay to lobby one of the people closest to the president, far away from watchful eyes.”

  195. 195.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 20, 2018 at 10:00 am

    @Kay: I wonder, whoever could Person A be?

  196. 196.

    zhena gogolia

    February 20, 2018 at 10:03 am

    @bemused:

    Midsomer is addictive. I forgot to mention Barnaby’s blue eyes as another thing getting me through the Dark Ages.

  197. 197.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 10:04 am

    I do believe the damn WILL break one of these days.

    Trump Accuser Keeps Telling Her Story, Hoping Someone Will Finally Listen

  198. 198.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 10:06 am

    @bemused

    Unless your wired service is absolutely horrid, both Netflix and Amazon are pretty forgiving of slower connections. Friend here who chooses to live beyond the middle of nowhere gets (on a really, really good day) a connection clocking in at 3 Mbps and he has few problems with either service.

    Believe Netflix still offers a free 30 day trial period. Couldn’t hurt to try.

  199. 199.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 20, 2018 at 10:09 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I’d like those people identified for public shaming.

    The Fux and Fiends producer is Gavin Hadden.

  200. 200.

    Just One More Canuck

    February 20, 2018 at 10:09 am

    @GregB: Dan Johnson seems like he was a lifelong grifter/scumball. Is his widow any different?

  201. 201.

    Percysowner

    February 20, 2018 at 10:10 am

    @Peale:

    I’m beginning to think that I may be the only American who was not personally harmed by the Clinton presidency.

    Table for two on the never harmed by Clinton’s policies. The Right hates him for being effective, the Left hates him for not being the Liberal Savior.

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 10:13 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    PBS (at least here) has been bugging me lately. Midsomer Murders shows up seemingly at random in the program listings, but it always turns out to be an episode that they just ran recently. C’mon, there’s like 120 episodes. Branch out a little!

  203. 203.

    J R in WV

    February 20, 2018 at 10:14 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Read recently that trump has a 61% approval rating among Utah Mormons, but any other repub would get 83% approval. This is proof of how morally repugnant Mormons find trump.

    A little count-on-my-fingers math says…22% of them don’t approve of Trump as much as they would random Mormon Republican. Doesn’t speak well of the Utah morality in my book.

  204. 204.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 20, 2018 at 10:17 am

    @NotMax:

    The Defenders (with E. G. Marshall, 1961 – 1965)

    And Robert Reed!

  205. 205.

    Just One More Canuck

    February 20, 2018 at 10:18 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): “Let’s be careful out there”

  206. 206.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 10:23 am

    @Kay:

    These are HUGELY sophisticated actors. They know how this works. These aren’t your average criminal! Thye aren’t like the tens of thousands of ordinary criminals who shuffle thru police interrogations. They are WELL represented. The best defense money can buy and money can buy a good one!

    Kay,

    one of the favorite tweets that I stumbled across after Dolt45 fired Comey was from a guy that had to be a dope dealer or gangbanger. The precision with which he cut to the chase about what Dolt45 had done cracked me up. The average criminal sees what’s going on from a mile away.

  207. 207.

    J R in WV

    February 20, 2018 at 10:23 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yep. I keep waiting for him to attack the Parkland kids. It would not surprise me in the least. Dim Son already did so, vicariously, by retweeting some Gateway Pundit ghoul.

    I read that Gateway Pundit piece. He claimed first that the students were too polished for kids. Then he claimed that they were being “coached” by teachers. Then he something-something to try to make teachers teaching students was a sign of moral weakness and incipient evil.

    Say Whut??

    Teachers!?? were helping students??? I thot that was how it was supposed to work?!?!?

  208. 208.

    Dupe1970

    February 20, 2018 at 10:23 am

    @msdc: There are no good Republicans.

  209. 209.

    GregB

    February 20, 2018 at 10:27 am

    @Just One More Canuck:

    I know nothing about her except that she is running as a Republican and I now consider that morally indefensible.

  210. 210.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 20, 2018 at 10:28 am

    @rikyrah:
    I don’t know whether anyone linked to this Jill Abramson story on Clarence Thomas’ [other] accusers, but “Do You Believe Her Now?” is worth reading. New York Magazine link.

  211. 211.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 10:28 am

    @Bobby Thomson:

    But I’ve never understood the consistent Jefferson love from liberals.

    Jefferson- Louisiana Purchase.

    Complicated, yes.

    A muthaphucka’in slave holding child predator who wrote ‘ All Men Are Created Equal’
    Both things about him are true.

  212. 212.

    Timurid

    February 20, 2018 at 10:31 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He didn’t cut through the receiver. That rifle will still fire, and shortening a rifle barrel past a certain length is technically illegal.

  213. 213.

    rikyrah

    February 20, 2018 at 10:32 am

    @NotMax:

    Should you come across them, also have recollection of quite enjoying the 60s series Ellery Queen

    Back in the day, I LOVED Ellery Queen.

  214. 214.

    Spanky

    February 20, 2018 at 10:39 am

    I have regarded you, not as a novelist, but as an historian; for it is my considered opinion, unshaken at 85, that records of fact are not history. They are only annals, which cannot become historical until the artist-poet-philosopher rescues them from the unintelligible chaos of their actual occurrence and arranges them in works of art. When people ask me what has happened in my long lifetime I do not refer them to the newspaper files and to the authorities, but to your novels. They object that the people in your books never existed; that their deeds were never done and their sayings never uttered. I assure them that they were, except that Upton Sinclair individualized and expressed them better than they could have done, and arranged their experiences, which as they actually occurred were as unintelligible as pied type, in significant and intelligible order.
    George Bernard Shaw, Letter to (Upton) Sinclair (12 December 1941)

    I went off to verify that the author of “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”
    was Upton Sinclair (I always think Sinclair Lewis.) What I found at Wikipedia leads me to suspect that folks have been inserting quotes of his into the article to fit the slow-moving Trump disaster. And Sinclair has provided plenty of fodder over the course of his career. Makes entertaining reading.

    Anyway, I think the above quote applies to the discussion of Presidents as much as the “salary” quote applies to the press.

    Carry on.

  215. 215.

    Calouste

    February 20, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @Kay: I think a plea deal in which the only charge is lying to the FBI pretty much means they have flipped.

  216. 216.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 10:47 am

    @NotMax:

    I hate watching movies, etc. on computer or ipad.

  217. 217.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 10:59 am

    @Steeplejack:

    There were a few Masterpiece series I instantly liked but I didn’t notice until a few seasons in. Very annoying that I missed starting from first episode, season one.

    I remember PBS watching and enjoying some of the All Creatures Great and Small series which had a run in late 70’s to early 80’s and then late 80’s to early 90’s. I looked up the dvd box set but hugely expensive.

  218. 218.

    Waynski

    February 20, 2018 at 11:00 am

    @Steeplejack: I believe the correct spelling is Whut, as per Captain Sensible.

  219. 219.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @bemused:

    You can hook up your TV, even a non-“smart” one, to your network and stream Netflix to it. (Might need Roku, Chromecast, Amazon Fire stick or some such for a non-smart TV.)

  220. 220.

    bemused senior

    February 20, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @Kay: you must read the testimony of fusion GPS before both Senate and House.

  221. 221.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 11:06 am

    @Waynski:

    Noted.

  222. 222.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 11:10 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Yeah, could be a more likely option for us now than a few years ago but we should pick our son’s brains if he thinks it would work for our situation. We are rural with local internet provider while he lives in a city with great internet speed.

  223. 223.

    retiredeng

    February 20, 2018 at 11:11 am

    @Steeplejack: There are two choices:
    1. Trump is a fool.
    2. Trump is a traitorous fool.

  224. 224.

    bupalos

    February 20, 2018 at 11:13 am

    @rikyrah: I’m in the camp that they both need to take a hike. We have better versions of the smart pragmatism of Clinton and better versions of the wild-eyed enthusiasm of Bernie. This party can and should be better than either.

    Speaking of that here’s Betsy Rader’s response to “Hillbilly Elegy.” This is the gal that’s going to flip Ohio 14.

  225. 225.

    Steeplejack

    February 20, 2018 at 11:18 am

    @bemused:

    As NotMax noted upthread, Netflix (streaming) is fairly forgiving. Might have your son check to see exactly how fast (or not) your Internet connection is. (I’m assuming he’s your designated techno-weenie on call.)

    If you want to give it a go yourself, Google “Internet speed test”. Google’s own test will come up as the first result; you can click “Run Speed Test” to, uh, run the test. And Google will give you a thumbnail rating of your speed in addition to the actual number. (Download speed is what you care about, not upload.)

  226. 226.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 20, 2018 at 11:20 am

    @bemused: You can also connect your laptop to your TV via an HDMI cable in addition to what Steeplejack suggested.

  227. 227.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 11:25 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Yes, son is on call when he deigns to be. You know how much the “kids” love to help their parents with stuff like this. I’m considering some new negotiation terms the next time he wants us to babysit his dog for a week. No negotiating over the grandkid though who we’ll watch anytime, anywhere.

  228. 228.

    bemused

    February 20, 2018 at 11:28 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Thanks to you too. My spouse is pretty darn busy now and in near future but probably could figure it out. I think I’m more interested in this than he is.

  229. 229.

    The Lodger

    February 20, 2018 at 12:23 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: I would be completely in favor of Trump being the first president to dive in an airplane or fly in a submarine.

  230. 230.

    gvg

    February 20, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    @rikyrah: I happen to think Jefferson writing those words “all men are created equal” was hugely important in the formation of our national values, even though he himself was a total hypocrite about it. Think about how young we learn those words and how we are taught how great they are. then we start growing up and notice that we aren’t living up to them. Over time I think it changed the percentage of people who wanted the words to be real. My dad tells some stories about the south just before and during civil rights. People edging forward a little while looking around at their fellows to see if they could get them to go along.
    Anyway Jefferson is really complicated. I read a garden writer that justly admired Jefferson’s gardens but showed where he had also mistreated dogs. Those things don’t get mentioned because there were so many other more important issues about him, but it shows that he was complicated all the way through.

  231. 231.

    Miss Bianca

    February 20, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    @bemused: libraries are your friend. Just sayin’.

    I never purchase DVD sets of series. Always come from the library. (tho’ I may make an exception for both “Deadwood” and “Black Sails”, because I just loved those shows *so damn much*).

  232. 232.

    SgrAstar

    February 20, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    @debbie:

    In his original announcement, Romney promised the return of “Utah values,” which I find frightening.

    Amen, sister.

  233. 233.

    barb 2

    February 20, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    @Thoughtful David:

    Lincoln was racist — Native Americans summary execution per order of da Prez. Racism towards Indians during that era was horrible. Also, there was the – make them white — or the push toward “diluting” the Indians by intermarriage with white males. Taking Indian wives was acceptable when the market for white wives was tiny. Male Indians marrying white women — a horrible no-no.

    My aunt’s mom was a child of such an approved union. The family would move and become white — although some remembered their Indian roots. Senator Warren is the result of one of the White/Indian union. It was really common — I discovered while doing genealogy research.

    Anyway, Lincoln is still hated by various tribes who had ancestors “put down” like rabid dogs — according to family history.

    Lincoln no hero to Native Americans.

    How will historians rank the presidents 100 years from now? I thought Nixon was as low as one creep could go — then came Ray Gun. Each of those bad guys prepared the way for the current chaos in the White House.

  234. 234.

    NotMax

    February 20, 2018 at 2:11 pm

    @bemused

    Hear you on that. I watch the stuff on the big screen. As Steeplejack and others have noted above, not difficult to set up so long as your TV has an HDMI input jack.

    I watch Netflix and Amazon on the TV through the Roku box. Don’t have a ‘smart’ TV – purposely, when finally took the plunge to a big screen TV, scooped up a plasma set before they were phased out because I also watch a lot of TCM (plenty of black and white films) as at the time plasma sets displayed a much truer and richer black than LED sets. If not being able to stream more than one thing at the same time is hunky dory with you, Netflix is still $7.99 a month (there’s a moderately higher tier that lets you stream on multiple devices simultaneously). For that price I can watch something through the TV OR the tablet OR the PC but not on more than one device at the same time, which is no inconvenience for me at all. Can in all honesty say that having a Roku opened up an entire new universe of viewing options.

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