Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

We will not go back.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

We still have time to mess this up!

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2018 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Learning NOTHING from History

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Learning NOTHING from History

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Mitt Romney is once again trying to kill me — and his own chances. (There’s only so much my blood pressure can handle.) We are told that Trump is about as popular among Mormons as Aunt Vidalisa’s potato salad that put half the family in the ER after last year’s reunion picnic, so *WHY* is Mitt crawling to him for affirmation?

Think I’ll have to throw some cash at Jenny Wilson, in protest, even if The Smart Take is that a pro-life choice woman can’t win in Utah…

***********

In related news, an excellent warning from one journo to her fellows:


Reader Interactions

234Comments

  3. 3.

    Bobby Thomson

    Considering the media’s behavior goes beyond mere skepticism and mean girl snarkiness to affirmative support of and complicity in the corruption and treason, good luck with that.

  5. 5.

    Barney

    Talking of learning from history:

    Trump ranks as worst president in poll of scholars

    President Trump came in last place in an expert ranking of “presidential greatness,” according to the 2018 Presidents & Executive Politics Presidential Greatness Survey released by Boise State University Monday.

    The survey was conducted among 170 current and recent members of the Presidents & Executive Politics Section of the American Political Science Association, which is a group of scholars dedicated to studying the American presidency.

    These experts were asked to rank each president on a scale from zero (worst) to 100 (best) based on their overall performance in office. With this, Mr. Trump came in last place with an average score of 12.34.

    Even among Republican respondents, Mr. Trump still ranked extremely low, earning the 40th spot for presidential greatness. These Republicans labeled James Buchanan — whose presidency saw the secession of seven states before the Civil War — as the all-time worst and George Washington as the best.
    …
    In this round of questioning, former president Barack Obama moved up in the rankings to 8th best president, whereas in 2014 he came in at 18th. Scholars identifying as Republican, however, ranked Obama 16th. Ronald Reagan, who also moved up from his previous ranking, trails behind Obama in 9th place.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-ranks-as-worst-president-in-poll-of-scholars/

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    Hillary is supposed to go somewhere, knit and never be heard from again…but, Willard can run for office and it’s okay?
    Phuck Outta Here ???

  10. 10.

    satby

    @rikyrah: I’m sure he figures he can take another crack at running for President after his party comes to it’s senses post-Drumpf. Sadly for rMoney, that’s never going to happen.

  12. 12.

    mezz

    I for one am glad Presidents’ Day is over. I fking HATE those stupid polls that rank Presidents. Especially those of political scientists, but even charlatan “historians” (looking at you Beschloss, Meacham, DKG). The rankings are worse than stupidly useless.

    It is only becoming possible, IMO, to assess historically Bill Clinton’s presidency. (And he is not faring well, I would argue.) How Trump is already ranking at/near the bottom is absurd. He’ll get there in his own time, seriously. Just stop already.

    – Signed, an Actual Historian (teaching a History of American Presidents class this semester to boot!)

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The Smart Take is that a pro-life woman can’t win in Utah…

    ???? Pro Choice?

    @Barney:

    Ronald Reagan, who also moved up from his previous ranking, trails behind Obama in 9th place.

    During his dog whistling anti union presidency, reagan infected half of America with a brain eating virus that led us to where we are now. On a scale of 1 to 45 I’d put him no higher than 47.

  15. 15.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    From the survey, the greatest presidents ranked by liberal historians are : (link – page 5)

    1……….Lincoln
    2……….Franklin Roosevelt
    3……….Washington
    4……….Theodore Roosevelt
    5……….Jefferson
    6……….Obama

    Only 1 year out of office and he’s already number #6.

    I love this, if only because it will piss off the emoprogs and The Village.

  16. 16.

    Thoughtful David

    I’m skeptical that Mr. rMoney is ever going to get the title of senator. I think his sell-by date expired about the moment President Obama said “Please proceed, Governor.”

  17. 17.

    p.a.

    Elite media do their job? And give up their cocktail parties?

    Historians? Social Scientists? Just poll the only people that matter: the .01%-ers. Ronnie, W right at the top. Jury still out on Trump: future rating devalued because of tumbril potential.

  19. 19.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    We agree completely about Reagan. The racists were there and slowly getting crazier, but he told them that kleptocrats could save the white race. The damage done by that alliance has been unspeakable. Oh, and he convinced only slightly racist whites that ‘racism’ was a dirty word.

  21. 21.

    Betty Cracker

    “Wry, knowing contempt” is a good description for the Beltway media point of view. I usually think of it as “ironic distance,” which is similar. Whatever you call it, it’s difficult to calculate what it has cost the nation.

  22. 22.

    msdc

    We are told that Trump is about as popular among Mormons as Aunt Vidalisa’s potato salad that put half the family in the ER after last year’s reunion picnic, so *WHY* is Mitt crawling to him for affirmation?

    Because the so-called “moderate” Republicans always fold in the end, or, in this case, in the prologue.

  25. 25.

    SFAW

    Oh, Heidi, STFU. It is clearly obvious that Hitlary would have been oodles worser, and probably have done something like demanded a military parade in her honor, done her utmost to destroy the environment, etc

    Or so DOCTOR Jill Vladimirovna Stalin Stein tells me.

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Betty Cracker:
    “Cult of savvy”?

    @msdc:
    Romney was never moderate. His policy positions were appalling, and he gets too much credit for things that he tried and failed to stop as governor. As polite racists who think the poors have it too easy, pundits really want you to believe that any Republican who can speak without frothing at the mouth is reasonable and mature.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    @mezz:

    It is only becoming possible, IMO, to assess historically Bill Clinton’s presidency.

    Not for another two decades at least.

  31. 31.

    Steeplejack

    @mezz:

    Maybe you can answer a question for me: Rachel Maddow covered this survey last night, and I was surprised to see Theodore Roosevelt rated so highly (#4, if I remember correctly). WTF? Trust-busting? Carrying a big stick?

  34. 34.

    Steeplejack

    @Anne Laurie:

    I second your recommendation on the excellent tweet thread by Heidi N. Moore and recommend that readers start at the top—“Why is there reason to believe Trump colluded, as opposed to driving his clown car into the White House?”—and read all the way through.

    It’s a good recap/​summation and advances some very good points, e.g.:

    This is hard to accept as a baseline: That we allowed an illegitimate president to take over. More importantly, to believe Trump colluded makes it impossible to believe that Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate. And many in media made their names in 2016 saying she was.— Heidi N Moore (@moorehn) February 19, 2018

  35. 35.

    satby

    It’s 60° right now and the rain that’s been falling since yesterday melted to remaining four inches of snow, so now we’re under a flood watch. Shouldn’t be as bad as what Cole went through, but it’s all going to freeze overnight tonight.

  36. 36.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

    .@MittRomney was a disaster candidate who had no guts and choked! Romney is a total joke, and everyone knows it!

    9:57 AM – 5 Mar 2016 (link)

    “I could have said, ‘Mitt, drop to your knees.’ He would have dropped to his knees.” ~ Drumpf (link)

    “The last election should have been won, except Romney choked like a dog. He choked. He went,” Trump paused to grab his neck and imitate choking and then said, “I can’t breathe! I can’t breathe, he said.” (link)

  37. 37.

    NorthLeft12

    I guess the part that I find hard to believe is how the press [not sure how much but it feels like a majority of it] continues to rely on sources that have lied to them time after time after time. I’m sure most of these reporters know in advance exactly what the high level source is going to tell them based on their position and party, yet I guess they need to hear it whispered into their ears to be able to pass it on to us….the ignorant and gullible public.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    @Steeplejack:

    More importantly, to believe Trump colluded makes it impossible to believe that Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate. 

    Mueller could uncover video of Trump and Putin personally changing votes in Pennsylvania and the haters will still spend 80% of their time talking about how Hillary was a bad candidate.

  41. 41.

    Amir Khalid

    @mezz:
    One’s own politics will inevitably influence a historian’s or political scientist’s (or for that matter a layman’s) comparative assessment of POTUSes. (POTi?) It’s the same sort of parlour game as a pop-culture magazine’s list of the year’s ten best movies or albums or Rolling Stone‘s all-time best drummers list. It grossly oversimplifies the complexity of any President’s time in office down to one vague measure. I wonder why a serious academic would take part.

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud, @satby:

    Still getting the hang of this early-bird thing. I have been up at this time quite often on this blog, but usually at the end of a long night. The last couple of nights I have gone to bed early (for me), around midnight, and that of course has had me popping wide awake about 4:30 or 5:00.

    It has even disrupted the housecat’s routine. She takes pleasure in blasting me awake with “Feed me!” meows about half an hour before dawn—she’s crepuscular!—and now I have been taking a little revenge by jooging her awake as I read in bed for a while. Good times.

    But we’re up and at ’em now. She has had her second breakfast already, and I’m sucking a cup of joe at the real computer. She’s going into her morning doze at her workstation beside me.

  46. 46.

    Jack the Second

    Republicans: Let’s not politicize this latest school shooting, out of respect for the victims.
    Victims of latest school shooting: Let’s talk about gun control.
    Republicans: Fffuuuu–

  48. 48.

    satby

    Jen Rubin in WaPo:

    At least we have clarity. The GOP in its current incarnation is emphatically opposed to any gun measures and to measures (that could pass) to protect dreamers. Voters can cast their ballots accordingly.

  49. 49.

    Sheila in NC

    @Steeplejack: Transformational president. The start of the progressive state. Food and drug safety laws. Outlawing child labor. Pulling us out of the Gilded Age. Other stuff I can’t remember off the top of my head but the ranking is entirely appropriate.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    It’s funny to look back on how thoroughly the Clinton’s finances were investigated by the NYTimes.

    This is when they bought a house in New York:

    In this case, the collateral on the loan is the $1.35 million cash put up by Mr. McAuliffe. Thus, this transaction seems to assure Mr. McAuliffe, who is already one of the President’s closest friends and supporters, a significant role in Mr. Clinton’s financial life after he leaves Washington.
    Mr. McAuliffe has amassed a personal fortune through his investments in a home-building firm, a title insurance firm and a mortgage servicing firm. Last night, he was at the Clintons’ side again as they raised money in Syracuse, where, as it turns out, Mr. McAuliffe grew up. He told reporters there that he had ”no closer friends than the President and the First Lady.” The secured-mortgage arrangement was described by other real estate brokers last night as slightly unusual, but not unheard of. Most of all, it seemed a reflection of the Clintons’ financial difficulties: notwithstanding the obvious earning potential of an ex-President from book deals, lectures or corporate boards, White House aides said the family had assets of just over $1 million and legal debts of about $5.2 million. As a result, one of the President’s associates said, banks were a bit wary about providing such a large a mortgage without extra security.
    This loan is a five-year balloon mortgage, which means that the Clintons will have to refinance, or pay back the entire amount, in five years. Such loans typically offer a lower rate than a traditional mortgage.
    In this case, it is an adjustable rate that can change every six months, and will equal one point above the London Interbank Offered Rate, the rate that the most credit-worthy international banks charge each other for large loans.
    The current rate is 5.52 percent, which would yield an interest rate of 6.52 percent for the Clintons. That would mean a monthly mortgage payment of either $7,335 or $8,550, depending on whether the Clintons have an interest-only balloon mortgage or one that includes principal payments as well. In addition, the estimated property taxes are $25,922 a year.
    Mr. Lockhart said that the White House Counsel’s office had ruled that Mr. McAuliffe’s guarantee did not fall under the provisions of Federal gift reporting laws and thus did not have to be listed on the Clintons’ annual disclosure report. Jim Kennedy, a spokesman for the White House Counsel’s Office, said he could not comment on whether that would change if the Clintons defaulted on the loan and Mr. McAuliffe lost his money.

    Does anyone know the first thing about what the Trumps own or owe? How many residences do the Trump’s have? Are they mortgaged? Which bank? What was the down payment and what is the interest rate? What about if they default?

    It is honestly amusing. You cannot honestly read coverage of other Presidents and conclude the coverage of this one is normal. It isn’t. There is a huge gaping hole where information should be!

    And I waited. I thought “okay, they didn’t think he would win, that’s bad because it’s an assumption they made and they shouldn’t be making decisions that drive coverage, but now they’ll catch up”. Then…nothing.

    Incidentally, there’s a piece like this from the Washington Post on the Obama’s home mortgage. The question there was did they get a favorable interest rate. On a single home mortgage! Because we’re worried about corruption!

    Not a WORD on the Trump family finances.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    As a result, one of the President’s associates said, banks were a bit wary about providing such a large a mortgage without extra security.

    The Clintons were too corrupt for even Russian oligarchs to lend money to. /NYT or Trump or Bros, take your pick.

  56. 56.

    clay

    @Steeplejack: Are you saying that trust-busting was a BAD thing? Big fan of oligarchs and monopolies, are you?

    The “big stick” philosophy, for better or worse, set up America’s role in the 20th century as a dominant power that (hopefully, aspirationally) benignly projected liberal values abroad.

    But, if nothing else, TR deserves to be in the top of the list for creating the National Park system.

  57. 57.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Barney:

    Ronald Reagan, who also moved up from his previous ranking, trails behind Obama in 9th place.

    During his dog whistling anti union presidency, reagan infected half of America with a brain eating virus that led us to where we are now. On a scale of 1 to 45 I’d put him no higher than 47.

    Reagan was also guilty of committing treason prior to his election and war crimes and US felonies while in office. His treason was to negotiate with the Iranian hostage takers to ask them to hold American prisoners until after the election, so Reagan could run on freeing the prisoners Carter allowed the Iranians to hold.

    Much the same as the treason Nixon committed while running for office by asking the North Vietnamese negotiators at the peace talks in Paris to refuse to deal fairly with LB Johnson, telling them he Nixon would make a better deal that Johnson could. Of course we know how that ended up, with 6 more years of death raining from the sky upon Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, finished up with Watergate break-in, a failed cover-up, nearly impeached before he resigned.

    Reagan also sold arms to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard (illegally) and used that income to fund right-wing death squads in Central America, which is part of the reason we still have illegal immigration from that part of the world. He destablized Central America just as Bush shattered stability in the Middle East. We’ll never know how many people died from Reagan’s illegal acts close to home.

    I believe that since Eisenhower every Republican president has committed treason and war crimes. Mostly it is obvious to any skeptical observer. George H W Bush (Bush the First) was less conspicuous that the others, given his background running the CIA, but I’m convinced he was stirring the pot just like all the others. They have no morality, no ethics, and very little shame.

  58. 58.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @rikyrah:

    Wachovia officials also flagged $25,000 in “fraudulent charges” at Duane Reade stores in New York City in September 2007. Bank officials said the debit card was in Manafort’s possession during that time

    25 thousand dollars in purchase at a drug store. That’s a lot of aspirin.

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    Good morning, all. Glad to see Teddy Roosevelt getting some love. He was a transformative president. Always think of him with trustbusting and the great outdoors.

    Who cares how cynical the DC press corpse is? They’re gonna get left in the dust like everything else.

    Concentrate your attention on that which is moving forward.

  62. 62.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Baud:

    White House aides said the family had assets of just over $1 million and legal debts of about $5.2 million.

    And when Hillary said they were broke when they left office the Bros and the Village flailed her.

  63. 63.

    magurakurin

    @rikyrah: Josh Marshal wrote today that Manafort is looking at 80 years already…and now more charges. He is going to flip. And I bet he flips on Jared. Then Jared flips on Don Jr. and the real Shakespearean tragedy unfolds when Don Jr. flips on Dad. I can hear Meuller now, ” remember how he embarrassed you that day at Penn when he slapped you and made you put on suit before the ballgame?”

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    @NorthLeft12:

    I guess the part that I find hard to believe is how the press [not sure how much but it feels like a majority of it] continues to rely on sources that have lied to them time after time after time.

    Moore sort of covers this in her thread. She calls it the “efficient markets hypothesis of Trump,” i.e., the Trumpsters compulsively blab all the time and can’t keep a secret. The unspoken corollary to that is that they’re blabbing the truth. So what comes out is all too often accepted at face value and “all bad news is already known and factored in to the Trump market, if you will.”

    But she blows that out of the water. “We only found out about Stormy Daniels last month—clearly the Trump camp managed to not blab about that for 15 months. Even more extreme, WE STILL HAVE NOT SEEN HIS TAX RETURNS. So, yes, Trump can keep a secret.”

    And the White House press corps is often so concerned about “access” that they forget about reporting. I can’t find it now, but Maggie Haberman had a tweet after one of the big revelations in which, after being asked “How did you miss this?,” she said, “We couldn’t believe how successfully they lied to us for so long.” W. T. F.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I love the explanation of an adjustable rate mortgage. They calculated the monthly payments!

    I wonder what Trump pays every month, for anything. To anyone. He votes in NY. Is that campaign headquarters he used his legal residence? Does he own it? What else does he own?

    These are property records. They have those in NY, I bet!

    One of the criminal investigations into Trump’s family was leaked this week and it appears the Trump’s have credit card debt. Now, that’s probably a monthly roll over and I assume they pay it off every month, but let’s calculate the monthly on 50k at 24% .

    Why aren’t these ordinary investigations done? Bankruptcy courts have a shorthand they use- “what do you own and what do you owe?” These people have filed bankruptcy! Numerous times! There are no records of any Trump transactions when he owns real estate and files bankruptcy? How could that be?

  69. 69.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: Good morning.

    Caught “The Year of Living Dangerously” in predawn hours. That is a good flick, and still way too sophisticated for me.

  70. 70.

    Steeplejack

    @satby:

    Well, now that you’re retired, you can explore the wonders of the occasional afternoon siesta. Very refreshing!

  72. 72.

    Thoughtful David

    @satby:
    Jenghazi Rubin in WaPo, previously (somewhat paraphrased): “Don’t vote for demonrats ever. They’re evil, Evil, EEVIL! Hitlary is EEEEEEEEVIL! Destroy demonrats now and forever!”

    She may be right now, but she has a lot to atone for. She spent literally decades laying the groundwork for Trump. If she stays the course as she is for a couple more decades, maybe I’ll trust her.

  73. 73.

    James E Powell

    Heidi Moore is right, if two years too late, but Haberman, the NYT, the people on the Sunday and cable shows, and the White House press have made it clear that they don’t see things the way she does. They see Trump as a goldmine, he draws audiences. They are having a great time.

    It’s like Heidi Moore is asking the war correspondents to write articles that prevent wars.

  74. 74.

    Adria McDowell

    @mezz: Serious question, how is Beschloss a charlatan? Another serious question, how is Clinton’s presidency not fairing well historically?

    And nah, Trump’s presidency is pretty terrible already, but we don’t need rankings to tell us that. However, I would agree that ranking any president since Reagan is kinda pointless. The repercussions of a presidency can take some time to develop.

  76. 76.

    Steeplejack

    @OzarkHillbilly, @Sheila in NC:

    Ah, good points. I wasn’t questioning the ranking so much as what got him there. Thanks for jogging my memory.

    @clay:

    Are you saying that trust-busting was a BAD thing? Big fan of oligarchs and monopolies, are you?

    Jesus, where do you get that?!

  78. 78.

    JPL

    @magurakurin: Manafort probably has enough to take down Don Jr., and that is when Trump takes down Mueller. Hopefully, Schneiderman then files charges in NY>

  79. 79.

    Schlemazel

    @Steeplejack:
    I’m not mezz but here is my take on TR

    He established the national parks system. The trust busting thing which was part of his larger progressive agenda. This was also a tipping point where the progressives were driven out of the GOP and made peace with the Southern Dems. Over the next 20 years the GOP became the party of big business and Dems took the mantle of progressive that led to FDR.

  82. 82.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Steeplejack: I was a bit surprised by that too, and then I went back to the Wikipedia page that lists results from these “rank the presidents” exercises going back decades… and TR is very frequently ranked #4. I’d say he’s the most common President put there after the Big Three that almost everyone puts in the top spots (Lincoln, FDR, George Washington in some order–a neat choice because you’ve got one from the 18th, 19th, 20th century).

    I’m not sure I agree, but it’s a common thing among historians.

  83. 83.

    Lapassionara

    @Steeplejack: There is a recreated boyhood home of Teddy Roosevelt in NYC. I highly recommend a visit there.

    There are some sayings of his on display, and if I knew how, I would share my photos of them. In effect, he understood the need for regulations and for rules curbing corporations. We could use a leader with his perspective right now.

  85. 85.

    sdhays

    We are told that Trump is about as popular among Mormons as Aunt Vidalisa’s potato salad that put half the family in the ER after last year’s reunion picnic

    Who’s been saying that? I remember hearing about how much Mormons disliked Trump before the election (maybe they’ll vote for that conservative independent guy who’s name escapes me and is irrelevant now and throw Utah to Hillary!), and they all happily voted for Trump. It’s all bullshit. Conservative Mormons are just like other members of the Russian Nationalist Party. Orrin Hatch loves him some Trump. Utah Republicans (primarily Mormons) love Trump. And Utah Republicans won’t punish Mitt if Trump goes down during the campaign.

    I think Texas is possible (if Doug Jones could win in Alabama, then…), but Mitt’s challenge in Utah is the primary, not the general election. I can’t imagine a scenario where he becomes so toxic that he loses the general election (even though he richly deserves to).

  86. 86.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I’m a little surprised a group like ProPublica hasn’t done that work by now.

    I donated to propublica once in the hope they would investigate and write and other outlets would pick it up but the fake IRS scandal proved to me that other outlets won’t pick it up.

    Propublica debunked the fake IRS scandal almost immediately, with their usual exhaustive records back up.

    It didn’t matter. They went with “scandal” anyway.

    Market principles don’t explain our media. It’s not markets. Even if someone else does the work they want the narrative they want and they cannot be convinced.

  90. 90.

    Jeffro

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    pundits really want you to believe that any Republican who can speak without frothing at the mouth is reasonable and mature.

    Yup. This will be the #1 danger to the Republic, post-Trumpov: that absolute loons like Ernst and Cotton will be considered ‘center-right’ and acceptable to the powers that be.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    What’s the market explanation for Chris Matthews? He’s objectively horrible.

    There was no market explanation for Matt Lauer. He was overpaid. They believed he was essential. He wasn’t.

    If it’s a market it’s broken.

  93. 93.

    JMG

    @Kay: At the very top of the media food chain, there is a marked tendency, almost a mania, among outlets that if “we didn’t report it, it didn’t happen.” This institutional arrogance goes back almost as long as I’ve been able to read. The Times Watergate coverage sucked because the Post kept breaking stories, which the Times then relatively ignored. By the same token, the Times’ Vietnam War coverage was superior to the Post’s largely for the same reason. This arrogance accounts for the astonishing defensiveness of those institutions. They think so highly of themselves that being told you are in error here as always seen as a personal attack on motives, worth as people, etc.

  94. 94.

    Waldo

    NPR just announced that it is going to interview an FBI guy to find if it’s true that the Russia investigation caused the Fla. school massacre, as Trump claims.

    I’m sure they’ll conclude that’s hyperbole, but, yeah, this exactly what Ms. Moore is talking about.

  95. 95.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Kay:

    What’s the market explanation for Chris Matthews?

    Show business suits always go with a known entity over something new.

  97. 97.

    sdhays

    @Kay: Add Brian Williams to that list. No one was demanding that NBC figure out a way to keep paying him after he was outed as a lying liar, but they found a way anyway (and I’m sure they’re paying him more than anyone else they could have found to read the news). Who is tuning into MSNBC to see what Brian has to say?

  99. 99.

    zhena gogolia

    Does anybody here watch “Cole and Marmalade” cat videos on YouTube? Along with crossword puzzles, they’re what’s getting me through the Trump era.

  100. 100.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Kay: The problem with his properties, I’d bet, is that everything is carefully hidden behind multiple layers of private companies and REIT’s. That’s not an excuse, but he’s been doing skeevy real-estate transactions most of his adult life, and there’s a whole industry of people in and around NYC who work at covering up who owns what. Neither the Obamas nor the Clintons engaged in those kinds of transactions.

  101. 101.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Lapassionara: He was also a major-league racist and imperialist, in a very turn-of-the-20th-century way. And an egotist with childlike enthusiasms who other world leaders often talked about in an almost Trumpian way. …And a competent naturalist and a Nobel Peace Prize winner for negotiating the end of the Russo-Japanese War.

    A complicated man.

  102. 102.

    GregB

    @rikyrah:

    Rikyrah.

    From that article:

    “Angry patriots are about to paint Philly red,” one account, singled out in Mueller’s indictment, tweeted on Sept. 29, 2016. “say no to lies, corruption and tyranny!”

    Trump is literally the epitome of lies. corruption and tyranny.

    I think, if this story every gets told truthfully, there will be dots connected about how Trump beat the odds and the pollsters not because of a brilliant strategy, but because he cheated, lied and stole the election.

    Dirty Don is the King of Lies.

  103. 103.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: It’s a market that reflects the media owners and their associates. It’s seriously broken, and I hope Trump takes big scared media down with him.

  104. 104.

    OzarkHillbilly

    ‘Sloppy and careless’: courts call out Trump blitzkrieg on environmental rules

    The reversal of Obama’s environmental legacy has been spearheaded by Scott Pruitt, who heads the EPA, the agency he repeatedly sued as Oklahoma attorney general. Pruitt, who accused Obama of “bending the rule of law” and federal overreach, has overseen the methodical delay or scrapping of dozens of rules curbing pollution from power plants, pesticides and vehicles.

    Ironically for Pruitt, who has touted a “back to basics” approach rooted safely within the confines of the law, this rapidly executed agenda has run into a thicket of legal problems, causing the administration to admit defeat in several cases.

    In July, a federal court ruled that the EPA couldn’t suspend rules designed to curb methane emissions from new oil and gas wells. This was followed by a hasty retreat in August when the EPA agreed to not delay new standards to reduce smog-causing air pollutants, the day after 15 states and environment groups sued.

    Then, in December, a federal court told the EPA it couldn’t delay a new standard for dangerous levels of lead in paint and dust.

    Other arms of the federal government have also been stymied from implementing Trump’s deregulatory agenda. The US Fish and Wildlife Service, stung by a lawsuit, listed the rusty patched bumblebee as endangered in March after initially delaying the decision. And on Thursday, a federal court told the department of energy it must implement four energy efficiency regulations it was looking to scuttle.
    ……………
    The EPA now faces a fresh wave of opposition as it looks to craft replacements for major Obama rules such as the clean power plan, which sought to limit emissions from coal-fired power plants, and the waters of the US rule, which greatly expanded clean water protections.

    If the proposed replacements are, as expected, far less onerous on industry than current iterations, environmentalists and around a dozen states, headed by New York and California, will be poised to further jam up the process in the courts.

    These people are gonna give lawyers a bad rep, doing good like this.

  105. 105.

    Waldo

    @zhena gogolia: yeah — they are wonderful. I would say Dodo videos on Facebook are cool, too, but they recently started inserting ads in the middle of them, rendering them unwatchable.

  106. 106.

    Steeplejack

    @zhena gogolia:

    My consumption of cooking shows, HGTV and antique ’60s TV has gone way up. I am now studying Peter Gunn with the same laser-like intensity that I brought to my groundbreaking work on Perry Mason.

    ETA: I watch those cat videos, and I also do six crosswords on line every day.

  107. 107.

    Bobby Thomson

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I can get why Washington ranks so highly, warts and all, because his greatest contribution to American democracy can’t be understated. He was the FIRST president. Voluntarily transferring power like that was not a thing.

    But I’ve never understood the consistent Jefferson love from liberals. Yes, he added territory that other colonial powers had already stolen, but so did the Mexican-American war. Yes, he talked a good game about liberty, but then he used the Sedition Act to his advantage once he was elected. That’s without even getting into his personal status as a serial rapist.

  111. 111.

    NotMax

    @sdhays

    Inexplicable to me as well, but the Williams shallow hour consistently ranks among the top 5 on MSNBC, insofar as size of audience, often in the top 3.

    Newton Minow weeps.

  112. 112.

    Thoughtful David

    @Bobby Thomson:
    I’m with you on Jefferson.
    I also don’t get Lincoln at #1. He didn’t do a very good job of prosecuting the war, and he only came around to emancipating the slaves when it was forced on him.

  113. 113.

    Mike E

    @Bobby Thomson: TR is the first modern president, for good or for bad…there were lots of panicky reactions when he succeeded McKinley (sound familiar?) but he surprised everyone with an unparalleled drive while he was in office.

    He was the first American to win the Nobel Prize; 1st pres to leave the country while in office (Panama); 1st to own a car, fly in an airplane, ride in a tank and dive in a submarine

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    @Bobby Thomson

    For the record, the Alien & Sedition Acts were a big item in the election of 1800, and his opposition to them helped propel Jefferson to the White House. Early on once in office, he pardoned those imprisoned under the Sedition Act (and Congress reimbursed those pardoned for any fines they had paid). Three of the four Acts were allowed to expire in either 1800 or 1801.

  117. 117.

    sdhays

    @NotMax: How much of that is a function of the time slot and general strength of the MSNBC brand during the era of Trump rather than Williams himself, I wonder.

  120. 120.

    Percysowner

    @Adria McDowell:

    Another serious question, how is Clinton’s presidency not fairing well historically?

    I can’t speak to historians, although I do think that it will take a few more years before we can really judge his Presidency. Over at Lawyers, Guns and Money they ranked the post WWII Presidents and although the article ranking is fair, Kennedy is a bit high IMO, the comments suddenly turned to why Clinton (and Jimmy Carter of all people) were the worst Presidents ever because they betrayed liberal politics and, in Carter’s case, didn’t click his heels together and rescue the Iranian hostages all by himself. And there is one guy going on and on about why Obama was a monster to not intervene in Syria. Then a few posters say we just don’t have enough to judge Trump on. Considering it’s a pretty liberal site, the comments are enlightening to say the least. They are a perfect example of the Democratic circular firing squad.

  123. 123.

    GregB

    Two special elections tonight.

    Seats vacated because of the following:

    Kentucky House of Representatives, District 49

    The race: Linda Belcher (D) and Rebecca Johnson (R) will run for the Kentucky House of Representatives. The incumbent, Dan Johnson (R), a former pastor, died by suicide in December after being accused of molesting a 17-year-old girl in 2013.

    Mississippi House of Representatives, District 60

    The race: Morris Mock Jr., Jim Giles, Bob Morrow, and Fred Shanks will run for the Mississippi House of Representatives after incumbent John Moore (R) resigned, citing health reasons. Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn (R) has said that Moore was facing multiple sexual harassment complaints at the time of his resignation.

  128. 128.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Mike E:

    1st to own a car, fly in an airplane, ride in a tank and dive in a submarine

    Shhhhhh…. you’ll give trump ideas.

  129. 129.

    Adria McDowell

    @Percysowner: I’m a big fan of LGM, but I think it’s too early to really assess Clinton’s presidency, let alone Obama’s. In my totally-dumbass-opinion.

    There are commenters there whose opinions I really respect (just like there are quite a few commenters here that I really respect), but they have their share of idiots over there, too, just like our usual suspects here.

  134. 134.

    Waldo

    @Mike E: I heard that. To be fair, I also heard Steve (I think) make a GOP interviewee squirm over the party’s 2nd Amendment absolutism in the wake of the massacre. Briefly and cordially, of course.

  136. 136.

    Betty Cracker

    Regarding ranking presidencies, I agree it’s too early to judge Trump’s, but I’m personally convinced Trump is the worst person who ever served as president and will likely retain that distinction for the duration of the republic. And yes, I realize that past presidents include out-and-proud racists, sexist pigs and genocidal monsters.

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t see how Trump is not, and does not remain, the worst president in history. There is nothing presidential about him, and he puts himself ahead of the country’s interests. He is a thief who cheated his way into an office he does not deserve. He is destroying the country.

  139. 139.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @GregB:

    incumbent John Moore (R) resigned, citing health reasons. Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn (R) has said that Moore was facing multiple sexual harassment complaints at the time of his resignation.

    His wife was going to kill him.

  145. 145.

    schrodingers_cat

    The media’s R tilt is no accident and it didn’t it start with T. It is not restricted to presidential level politics either, just look at the fawning coverage Paul Ryan gets even now, compared to Nancy Pelosi. It cannot be explained away as “market forces” or the cult of savvy either. It is deliberate and it is killing our democracy.

    ETA: Or see how they tried to both-sides the immigration debate. The media helps Rs lie with impunity.

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Story from when they made the Peter Gunn movie was that no guitar player the producers auditioned was able to replicate the sound of the theme satisfactorily. Someone checked and discovered that, lo and behold, Duane Eddy (guitarist for the most popular and recognizable version) was alive and well. He was hired lickety-split.

  149. 149.

    Steeplejack

    @Alain the site fixer:

    I hate Jack Lord! And that show has a really fascist vibe. I’ve been occasionally watching Mannix and Cannon, although they are pretty cheesy. The Rockford Files is still the gold standard from that (approximate) period. I wish MeTV or one of those channels would run Harry O. That was a quirky series I’d like to see again.

  151. 151.

    GregB

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The kicker from the article, the wife is pulling a Jean Carnahan and running for her dead husband’s seat.

    The political pathology of this era is something to behold.

  153. 153.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Aimai: Read recently that trump has a 61% approval rating among Utah Mormons, but any other repub would get 83% approval. This is proof of how morally repugnant Mormons find trump.

  155. 155.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Short-lived, but remember The Snoop Sisters (Helen Hayes and Mildred Natwick) from that same period as being a cut above the average.

    Should you come across them, also have recollection of quite enjoying the 60s series Ellery Queen and Checkmate. No idea how well they hold up now.

  156. 156.

    J R in WV

    I really think the Mass Mainstream Media is controlled by the same people who control the Russo-Republican Party, whoever that is. Not Putin, but the uber-wealthy movers and shakers who control the world’s economy to some extent. The “publishers” are given their walking orders, which are passed to editors and lead reporters.

    What is “investigated” is what uber-boss knows is there to be found and published. No one is encouraged to investigate out there on their own, lest they discover things better left unsaid. I know this sounds paranoid, but how else to explain the lack or information about Trump – the kind of information openly available about every other politician in the country. We know about the Obama’s mortgages and property, the Clinton’s. We don’t know about McCain or Mittens Romney, though, do we?

    How long has the Russo-Republican party been owned and operated for the benefit on unknown entities? How long since the Russo-Republican party operated for the benefit of working people, doctors, accountants, ordinary people with plenty of money, as opposed to vastly wealthy people like the Kochs, the Hunts, the Bush family, etc? Decades at least!

    That’s how long the NYTimes has been not investigating the Republicans the same way they investigate Democrats!!!

  157. 157.

    NotMax

    @GregB

    Not an uncommon happenstance. Instance which fist pops into the mind (although far from the first time it occurred) is Mary Bono.

  159. 159.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:

    There’s great West Coast jazz in almost every episode. Lola Albright (as Edy), “How High the Moon.”

    Even the incidental music is good. Almost every episode starts with a snippet from this.

    A young Diahann Carroll was on one episode as a troubled nightclub singer, and she did a whole song.

    The show is all style. The plots are laughably thin and have to be stretched out even to make a half-hour episode.

  161. 161.

    OzarkHillbilly

    In the summer of 2014, an FBI special agent questioned Manafort at his attorney’s office in Washington, DC. Manafort denied knowing anything about money reportedly stolen by the Yanukovych government, according to internal FBI emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News, and promised to turn over documents to the Bureau. He never did, according to the two officials.

    “We had him in 2014,” one of the former officials said. “In hindsight, we could have nailed him then.”

    The FBI’s top brass, both of the former officials said, deemed Manafort’s suspected financial crimes as too petty: They amounted to only tens of millions of dollars — small potatoes compared to what Manafort’s boss, Yanukovych, was suspected of stealing.

    Says it all.

    from the buzzfeed article cited above by rikyrah iirc

  162. 162.

    GregB

    @oldgold:

    Here in NH, we have access to a lot of great lectures because we sure loves politics here.

    So, just in the past few months I have seen a lecture titled: Washington, The Indispensable President, that posited that his willingness to lead and then cede power was revolutionary and ultimately a historically selfless act that created a whole new paradigm for heads of state.

    A quick aside, when the Q & A part of the lecture came up, a man attempted to force the lecturer to say that Washington was a Christian and that was what was important and that all of his decisions were based upon Biblical concepts. The lecturer really would not concede to this analysis despite the man taking the microphone three times to try and force his idea.

    Reading: Washington,, The Indispensable President by Stephen Knotts.

    Second lecture had to do with Oney Judge, a fugitive slave who escaped from Washington and lived openly in Portsmouth NH despite Washington’s efforts to have her tracked down and returned.

    Reading: Never Caught by Erica Armstrong Dunbar.

    So, yeah, judging people is pretty complicated.

  163. 163.

    bemused

    @Steeplejack:

    Watching “Murder She Wrote” and “Matlock” have been my go-tos when I can no longer tolerate one more second of of our national insanities.

  165. 165.

    Phylllis

    @GregB: I tried Never Caught as an audio book & it would always put me immediately to sleep–due I think to the narrator. Will give it another try in print.

  166. 166.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @J R in WV:

    We don’t know about McCain or Mittens Romney, though, do we?

    We know quite a bit about them. They both have released tax returns and McCain, as a sitting senator has to file financial disclosures every year.

  169. 169.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    Someone on here mentioned Hill Street Blues the other day, and I’ve watched a couple of episodes on You Tube. It’s interesting because usually I listen to stuff like that while I browse the internet, but I have to watch HSB to follow what’s going on. It’s much more visual. Partly it’s the huge cast but also it’s less dependent on dialogue than a lot of shows.

  170. 170.

    GregB

    @Phylllis:

    If you ever vacation in NH, there is the Portsmouth Black History Trail which covers NH’s small but fascinating African-American community. History shows no recorded racist lynchings in NH and Nashua had the first racially integrated baseball team in the US. 1946 Nashua Dodgers. Also, the first African-American female published author, Harriet Wilson lived in Milford, and there is a statue there in her honor.

  172. 172.

    manyakitty

    @Kay: I accidentally forgot to change the channel after Ari Melber the other night and ran into Tweety whining about how the “libs” love to complain about everything, Not like I think it mattered to them, but I tweeted a nastygram to MSNBC. Maybe if more people started doing that, he’d go away.

  173. 173.

    Gin & Tonic

    @OzarkHillbilly: In the summer of 2014 the FBI did not yet (I believe) have the cooperation of the Ukrainian government, as it was busy with other matters. By now I’m sure they’ve gotten everything the Ukrainians have on him. Many in Ukraine believe Manafort has blood on his hands from the Maidan massacre of four years ago.

  177. 177.

    sdhays

    @Elizabelle: I think Buchanan presiding over the crack up of the Union while shoving his thumb up his butt is a hard act to beat for worst President ever. I find it difficult to even really imagine what that was like; the pre-war period had some really, really poor leadership and stupid and nasty politics.

    Unfortunately, Trump still has some time to beat him.

  180. 180.

    J R in WV

    @Thoughtful David:

    He WON that little war, though, so he did well enough, saved the nation from being shattered by traitors defending slavery, and he DID free the slaves as well. Which changed the nation (and perhaps the world, too) forever, and for the better!!!

    You only think you’re thoughtful, David. Give it another try some time and see how it goes!!

  181. 181.

    NotMax

    @bemused

    In the same vein (kind of) as Murder She Wrote is the Czech series Kveta Mysteries on Amazon Prime. Sort of an odd duck as while there is some internal story line continuity, each episode is almost a stand alone made-for-TV movie, clocking in at 90 minutes, so the pacing and structure is a departure from that to which we in the U.S. have become accustomed. Not great TV, but creditable. The actress playing the old woman (Kveta) is excellent.

  183. 183.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Gin & Tonic:

    But the task force didn’t get Yanukovych either. The US government, the former officials said, devoted far too few resources to build a case of the scale and complexity needed to prosecute the former Ukrainian president, and agents assigned to the task force left because they felt they were unable to properly do their jobs.

    When the investigation petered out, the reports on Manafort and the detailed financial records that supported them were all shelved, two former law enforcement officials who worked on his case told BuzzFeed News. But banks continued to send in suspicious activity reports on transactions involving Manafort or his companies all the way through 2016. For instance, in April and September 2015, PNC Bank flagged two transactions for a total of about $75,000.

    They didn’t care about Manafort then, but all the legwork previously done put Mueller on the 5 yard line re him.

  184. 184.

    Kay

    Another plea deal in the nothingburger Mueller probe.

    Obviously it’s not proof of wrongdoing but one does have to wonder why these people lie so much.

    I guess we could speculate on whether this is an indication of criminal activity related to coordination with the Trump campaign or just criminal activity in general, but these people lie like other people breathe and no one has offered an explanation on why that is.

    If the media standard is criminal activity does not matter unless it relates to coordination that is a REALLY low standard, and one that has NEVER been applied to a US administration.

    This is a brand new REALLY LOW standard. EXCLUSIVELY given to Donald Trump.

  185. 185.

    Steeplejack

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    LOL. I have a bias against cop shows where they break every rule in the book but it’s okay because they’re never wrong! And Wo Fat was the perfect foil: pure, two-dimensional evil. It wasn’t just okay to hate him—you were actually un-American if you didn’t.

  186. 186.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Also too, as you mentioned Perry Mason, have heard from those who purchased the DVD set that The Defenders (with E. G. Marshall, 1961 – 1965) weathers its age very well.

  187. 187.

    Kay

    They’re told, too that lying to investigators is a crime all by itself yet they do it anyway.

    These are HUGELY sophisticated actors. They know how this works. These aren’t your average criminal! Thye aren’t like the tens of thousands of ordinary criminals who shuffle thru police interrogations. They are WELL represented. The best defense money can buy and money can buy a good one!

    So is that some risk analysis? The plea deal on the lie is worth it, because telling the truth would be worse?

  189. 189.

    bemused

    We don’t have terrible internet service (rural here) but I don’t think it’s fast enough for Amazon, Netflick, etc streaming. We love most Masterpiece Theater series and reserve Sunday evenings with popcorn to watch them. Now a pause on local pbs station before new seasons start so I bought Midsomer Murders early cases to fill the void. So far we haven’t had time to watch but part of the first episode.

  190. 190.

    Gin & Tonic

    @OzarkHillbilly: Like I said, Ukrainians want Manafort in prison. That article, which I haven’t yet read, doesn’t seem to mention the intelligence the FBI is getting from them – maybe the FBI sources are just being circumspect about foreign cooperation – but Manafort had offices in Kyiv, and I’m sure every scrap of paper from them and the contents of every computer have been copied and sent to DC.

  192. 192.

    rikyrah

    Don Jr. Advises Trump After School Shooting: Don’t Go Wobbly on Guns

    He pushed dad to keep AR-15s legal while they both watched Parkland teen survivors speaking out on TV
    20 FEB 2018 AT 08:45 ET

    President Donald Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., urged his dad not to cave in to calls for gun control as both men watched teens who survived the shooting in Parkland, Florida call for action on TV news programs.

    The Daily Beast reported on Tuesday that Trump Jr. “has been assuring his dad that the right move was to stay strong on gun rights and draw a hard line on the issue that helped propel him in the 2016 election.”

    According to the report, Trump Jr. insisted that his dad refuse to revive any version of the assault weapons ban, which would have prevented the sale of the type of gun used at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    The Daily Beast noted that the discussion came as Trump and his son watched students who survived the shooting call for gun control on TV.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/don-jr-advises-president-trump-post-parkland-dont-go-wobbly-on-guns?ref=home

  193. 193.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:

    I vaguely remember Checkmate, but that was at the early edge of my TV viewing. We lived in England from 1957 to 1960, so no American TV for me until we got back. I remember it had a good theme song and titles (swirly black and white liquids).

    I wonder why more of these shows don’t show up on the third-tier cable channels like MeTV. I assumed a lot of them were lost forever, for whatever reason, but IMDB seems to indicate that a DVD set of Checkmate is available. Same for Harry O. Second assumption is that, as with almost everything, it’s a tangled issue of ownership rights.

  194. 194.

    rikyrah

    Trump’s ‘no foreign deals’ pledge came with an asterisk
    02/20/18 09:21 AM—UPDATED 02/20/18 09:42 AM
    By Steve Benen
    At a press conference during the presidential transition period last year, a lawyer representing Donald Trump’s business assured the public that “no new foreign deals will be made whatsoever” during the Republican’s presidency.

    And yet, here we are, reading reports like these in the Washington Post.

    The president’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., is making what has been dubbed an unofficial visit to India to promote his family’s real estate projects. But he’s also planning to deliver a foreign policy speech on Indo-Pacific relations at an event with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

    Beginning Tuesday, Trump Jr. will have a full schedule of meet-and-greets with investors and business leaders throughout India, where the Trump family has real estate projects – Mumbai, the New Delhi suburb of Gurgaon, the western city of Pune and the eastern city of Kolkata.

    Jordan Libowitz, the communications director for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), told the Post, “Trump’s company is literally selling access to the president’s son overseas. For many people wanting to impact American policy in the region, the cost of a condo is a small price to pay to lobby one of the people closest to the president, far away from watchful eyes.”

  198. 198.

    NotMax

    @bemused

    Unless your wired service is absolutely horrid, both Netflix and Amazon are pretty forgiving of slower connections. Friend here who chooses to live beyond the middle of nowhere gets (on a really, really good day) a connection clocking in at 3 Mbps and he has few problems with either service.

    Believe Netflix still offers a free 30 day trial period. Couldn’t hurt to try.

  201. 201.

    Percysowner

    @Peale:

    I’m beginning to think that I may be the only American who was not personally harmed by the Clinton presidency.

    Table for two on the never harmed by Clinton’s policies. The Right hates him for being effective, the Left hates him for not being the Liberal Savior.

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    @zhena gogolia:

    PBS (at least here) has been bugging me lately. Midsomer Murders shows up seemingly at random in the program listings, but it always turns out to be an episode that they just ran recently. C’mon, there’s like 120 episodes. Branch out a little!

  203. 203.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Read recently that trump has a 61% approval rating among Utah Mormons, but any other repub would get 83% approval. This is proof of how morally repugnant Mormons find trump.

    A little count-on-my-fingers math says…22% of them don’t approve of Trump as much as they would random Mormon Republican. Doesn’t speak well of the Utah morality in my book.

  206. 206.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    These are HUGELY sophisticated actors. They know how this works. These aren’t your average criminal! Thye aren’t like the tens of thousands of ordinary criminals who shuffle thru police interrogations. They are WELL represented. The best defense money can buy and money can buy a good one!

    Kay,

    one of the favorite tweets that I stumbled across after Dolt45 fired Comey was from a guy that had to be a dope dealer or gangbanger. The precision with which he cut to the chase about what Dolt45 had done cracked me up. The average criminal sees what’s going on from a mile away.

  207. 207.

    J R in WV

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yep. I keep waiting for him to attack the Parkland kids. It would not surprise me in the least. Dim Son already did so, vicariously, by retweeting some Gateway Pundit ghoul.

    I read that Gateway Pundit piece. He claimed first that the students were too polished for kids. Then he claimed that they were being “coached” by teachers. Then he something-something to try to make teachers teaching students was a sign of moral weakness and incipient evil.

    Say Whut??

    Teachers!?? were helping students??? I thot that was how it was supposed to work?!?!?

  210. 210.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @rikyrah:
    I don’t know whether anyone linked to this Jill Abramson story on Clarence Thomas’ [other] accusers, but “Do You Believe Her Now?” is worth reading. New York Magazine link.

  211. 211.

    rikyrah

    @Bobby Thomson:

    But I’ve never understood the consistent Jefferson love from liberals.

    Jefferson- Louisiana Purchase.

    Complicated, yes.

    A muthaphucka’in slave holding child predator who wrote ‘ All Men Are Created Equal’
    Both things about him are true.

  214. 214.

    Spanky

    I have regarded you, not as a novelist, but as an historian; for it is my considered opinion, unshaken at 85, that records of fact are not history. They are only annals, which cannot become historical until the artist-poet-philosopher rescues them from the unintelligible chaos of their actual occurrence and arranges them in works of art. When people ask me what has happened in my long lifetime I do not refer them to the newspaper files and to the authorities, but to your novels. They object that the people in your books never existed; that their deeds were never done and their sayings never uttered. I assure them that they were, except that Upton Sinclair individualized and expressed them better than they could have done, and arranged their experiences, which as they actually occurred were as unintelligible as pied type, in significant and intelligible order.
    George Bernard Shaw, Letter to (Upton) Sinclair (12 December 1941)

    I went off to verify that the author of “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”
    was Upton Sinclair (I always think Sinclair Lewis.) What I found at Wikipedia leads me to suspect that folks have been inserting quotes of his into the article to fit the slow-moving Trump disaster. And Sinclair has provided plenty of fodder over the course of his career. Makes entertaining reading.

    Anyway, I think the above quote applies to the discussion of Presidents as much as the “salary” quote applies to the press.

    Carry on.

  217. 217.

    bemused

    @Steeplejack:

    There were a few Masterpiece series I instantly liked but I didn’t notice until a few seasons in. Very annoying that I missed starting from first episode, season one.

    I remember PBS watching and enjoying some of the All Creatures Great and Small series which had a run in late 70’s to early 80’s and then late 80’s to early 90’s. I looked up the dvd box set but hugely expensive.

  219. 219.

    Steeplejack

    @bemused:

    You can hook up your TV, even a non-“smart” one, to your network and stream Netflix to it. (Might need Roku, Chromecast, Amazon Fire stick or some such for a non-smart TV.)

  222. 222.

    bemused

    @Steeplejack:

    Yeah, could be a more likely option for us now than a few years ago but we should pick our son’s brains if he thinks it would work for our situation. We are rural with local internet provider while he lives in a city with great internet speed.

  225. 225.

    Steeplejack

    @bemused:

    As NotMax noted upthread, Netflix (streaming) is fairly forgiving. Might have your son check to see exactly how fast (or not) your Internet connection is. (I’m assuming he’s your designated techno-weenie on call.)

    If you want to give it a go yourself, Google “Internet speed test”. Google’s own test will come up as the first result; you can click “Run Speed Test” to, uh, run the test. And Google will give you a thumbnail rating of your speed in addition to the actual number. (Download speed is what you care about, not upload.)

  227. 227.

    bemused

    @Steeplejack:

    Yes, son is on call when he deigns to be. You know how much the “kids” love to help their parents with stuff like this. I’m considering some new negotiation terms the next time he wants us to babysit his dog for a week. No negotiating over the grandkid though who we’ll watch anytime, anywhere.

  230. 230.

    gvg

    @rikyrah: I happen to think Jefferson writing those words “all men are created equal” was hugely important in the formation of our national values, even though he himself was a total hypocrite about it. Think about how young we learn those words and how we are taught how great they are. then we start growing up and notice that we aren’t living up to them. Over time I think it changed the percentage of people who wanted the words to be real. My dad tells some stories about the south just before and during civil rights. People edging forward a little while looking around at their fellows to see if they could get them to go along.
    Anyway Jefferson is really complicated. I read a garden writer that justly admired Jefferson’s gardens but showed where he had also mistreated dogs. Those things don’t get mentioned because there were so many other more important issues about him, but it shows that he was complicated all the way through.

  231. 231.

    Miss Bianca

    @bemused: libraries are your friend. Just sayin’.

    I never purchase DVD sets of series. Always come from the library. (tho’ I may make an exception for both “Deadwood” and “Black Sails”, because I just loved those shows *so damn much*).

  232. 232.

    SgrAstar

    @debbie:

    In his original announcement, Romney promised the return of “Utah values,” which I find frightening.

    Amen, sister.

  233. 233.

    barb 2

    @Thoughtful David:

    Lincoln was racist — Native Americans summary execution per order of da Prez. Racism towards Indians during that era was horrible. Also, there was the – make them white — or the push toward “diluting” the Indians by intermarriage with white males. Taking Indian wives was acceptable when the market for white wives was tiny. Male Indians marrying white women — a horrible no-no.

    My aunt’s mom was a child of such an approved union. The family would move and become white — although some remembered their Indian roots. Senator Warren is the result of one of the White/Indian union. It was really common — I discovered while doing genealogy research.

    Anyway, Lincoln is still hated by various tribes who had ancestors “put down” like rabid dogs — according to family history.

    Lincoln no hero to Native Americans.

    How will historians rank the presidents 100 years from now? I thought Nixon was as low as one creep could go — then came Ray Gun. Each of those bad guys prepared the way for the current chaos in the White House.

  234. 234.

    NotMax

    @bemused

    Hear you on that. I watch the stuff on the big screen. As Steeplejack and others have noted above, not difficult to set up so long as your TV has an HDMI input jack.

    I watch Netflix and Amazon on the TV through the Roku box. Don’t have a ‘smart’ TV – purposely, when finally took the plunge to a big screen TV, scooped up a plasma set before they were phased out because I also watch a lot of TCM (plenty of black and white films) as at the time plasma sets displayed a much truer and richer black than LED sets. If not being able to stream more than one thing at the same time is hunky dory with you, Netflix is still $7.99 a month (there’s a moderately higher tier that lets you stream on multiple devices simultaneously). For that price I can watch something through the TV OR the tablet OR the PC but not on more than one device at the same time, which is no inconvenience for me at all. Can in all honesty say that having a Roku opened up an entire new universe of viewing options.

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