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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

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Technically true, but collectively nonsense

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fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

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Not all heroes wear capes.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

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Optimism opens the door to great things.

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Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

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Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2018 / Friday Afternoon Open Thread

Friday Afternoon Open Thread

by Betty Cracker|  May 18, 20182:25 pm| 114 Comments

This post is in: Election 2018, Gun nuts, Open Threads, Politics, Assholes, General Stupidity

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This girl from Texas:

Heartbreaking moment as Santa Fe High School student is asked if she thought a shooting 'would not happen' at her school:

"It's been happening everywhere. I've always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too." https://t.co/6fKS4bdvrk pic.twitter.com/ApfEloDyBP

— ABC News Politics (@ABCPolitics) May 18, 2018

America failed her. It’s shameful.

Speaking of shameful, the low-life piece of shit president and his vice-toady made the usual blah-blah-blah mouth-noises in response to the shooting. They’ll do nothing. It won’t change until we vote the NRA shills out. Simple as that. God gets it:

It’s too bad Twitter God isn’t equipped with smiting powers. If He were, perhaps He could put an end to authoritarian practices such as using Trump using federal power to punish and intimidate critics, as detailed in The Post:

President Trump has personally pushed U.S. Postmaster General Megan Brennan to double the rate the Postal Service charges Amazon.com and other firms to ship packages, according to three people familiar with their conversations, a dramatic move that probably would cost these companies billions of dollars.

Brennan has so far resisted Trump’s demand, explaining in multiple conversations occurring this year and last that these arrangements are bound by contracts and must be reviewed by a regulatory commission, the three people said. She has told the president that the Amazon relationship is beneficial for the Postal Service and gave him a set of slides that showed the variety of companies, in addition to Amazon, that also partner for deliveries.

Despite these presentations, Trump has continued to level criticism at Amazon. And last month, his critiques culminated in the signing of an executive order mandating a government review of the financially strapped Postal Service that could lead to major changes in the way it charges Amazon and others for package delivery.

The remedy for this is the same as the cure for the plague of GOP politicians — from the PEEOTUS on down to the lowliest goddamned councilman — who care more about NRA donations than they do about kids: Vote the fuckers out. Nancy Pelosi gets it:

Umm, yeah. Yes we will. https://t.co/S2Ch6bFtG0

— Nancy Pelosi (@TeamPelosi) May 17, 2018

There are 172 days until the midterm elections. Accountability starts then, or it never does. Let’s make sure it starts then. Open thread.

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Previous Post: « Another School Shooting: Thoughts and Prayers
Next Post: Daddy’s Rifle in my Hand Felt Reassuring »

Reader Interactions

114Comments

  1. 1.

    dexwood

    May 18, 2018 at 2:30 pm

    At last, a god I’d like to believe in.

  2. 2.

    gVOR08

    May 18, 2018 at 2:30 pm

    Amazon and the USPS were probably saved by Chris Hayes broadcast of the Bill Gates video. Trump will shift his fire to Apple.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    French Ambassador to the US, everyone:

    Gérard Araud
    ‏Verified account @GerardAraud

    Because of the US sanctions, the oil company Total will suspend its activities in Iran. A chinese company will replace it. I am sure there is some logic in this policy.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:32 pm

    @gVOR08:

    Amazon and the USPS were probably saved by Chris Hayes broadcast of the Bill Gates video. Trump will shift his fire to Apple.

    I admire your very Trumpian logic application.

  5. 5.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    @gVOR08:
    Hopefully. I don’t like the goddamn President of the United States attacking private companies like this but better Apple than Amazon, who gives the USPS lots of business and owns the best newspaper in the country that does good journalistic work.

  6. 6.

    TenguPhule

    May 18, 2018 at 2:35 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I am sure there is some logic in this policy.

    Weapons grade snark right there.

  7. 7.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:35 pm

    Tolerate him or hate him, David Frum has a pretty succinct piece on Trump – NK summit at The Atlantic. Nothing earth shattering in his process, but does sum up where we are probably going.
    Trump Can’t Afford to Admit His Failures With North Korea
    The administration has no choice now but to carry on the pretense that the negotiations are proceeding favorably.

    As I always suspected, so therefore agree with:

    Much of the work of snookering Trump into the Kim summit has actually been done by South Koreans, not North Koreans. It was President Moon who slyly insinuated that Trump deserved a Nobel Prize for the summit—bait that Trump swallowed like a credulous guppy. In fact, it was a South Korean delegation that first put the summit idea into Trump’s head back in March. It was the South Koreans who immediately announced Trump’s impulsive “yes” answer at the very entrance to the West Wing, thus effectively locking the door behind the president before he understood the full implications of what he had done—and before he could be dissuaded by his staff and secretary of state.

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    May 18, 2018 at 2:36 pm

    @gVOR08:

    Trump will shift his fire to Apple.

    Apple customers are even more hard core then Trump supporters.

    Gonna need more popcorn.

  9. 9.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Why the fuck would the ROK want to do this? And I thought the “Nobel Prize” comment was a mistranslation?

  10. 10.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 2:38 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Apple customers are even more hard core then Trump supporters.

    Apple customers are just mineral-water drinking, coastal elitists.

  11. 11.

    ? Martin

    May 18, 2018 at 2:39 pm

    @TenguPhule: 1/7th of the world population own an Apple product – over half of the US population. It’s not 1997 any longer.

  12. 12.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 18, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    Me update: The editor I’m working with told me my story is good to go after we resolve a couple line edits—very exciting! I asked him one last question before I submit the hopefully-final draft.

    ——

    a dramatic move that probably would cost these companies billions of dollars.

    And further starve the post office in the long term, as it presents a very lucrative opportunity for somebody else to pick up the slack (somehow) by charging slightly less than ‘twice’.

  13. 13.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    Also too, it’s a little light on facts or stats but still a good read from ForeignPolicy on Coast Guard and Climate Change:
    The Head of the U.S. Coast Guard Isn’t Afraid to Talk About Climate Change
    “Apart from the practical effects of a warmer Arctic, Washington faces a strategic challenge from Russian — and potentially Chinese — efforts to freeze the United States out of the region. But Zukunft says U.S. political leaders are not ready to make a commitment to a more ambitious American presence in the north.

    “There is no bipartisan, bicameral consensus that we the United States, with a GDP 10 times that of Russia, just need to make it a priority to invest in the Arctic,” Zukunft says.”

  14. 14.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    Can I assume the Republican investigation into what video games Dimitrios Pagourtzis plays has commenced?

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    May 18, 2018 at 2:43 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    …bait that Trump swallowed like a credulous guppy.

    Okay, Frum is a trout-faced, neocon jerkwad, but that’s a good line.

  16. 16.

    TenguPhule

    May 18, 2018 at 2:43 pm

    China: we have not bowed to Trump’s call to cut US trade surplus by $200bn

    Surprise, surprise. Trump’s folks lied. Again.

    China has rejected Trump administration claims that it had offered to cut its trade surplus with the US by $200bn, China’s foreign ministry said on Friday.

    Various US news outlets, citing anonymous sources, had reported that Chinese trade officials, meeting with US counterparts in Washington this week, had acceded to Trump demands to cut its $375bn annual trade surplus, in part by increasing purchases of American goods.

    “This rumor is not true. This I can confirm to you,” the foreign ministry spokesman, Lu Kang, told a regular news briefing.

    However, the ministry spokesman said that the trade consultations between the Chinese vice-premier Liu He and the US treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross, and trade representative, Robert Lighthizer, were “constructive”.

  17. 17.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 18, 2018 at 2:43 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Moon was basically saying “trump can have the nobel prize, we just want the peace.” It was a willful misunderstanding by trump.

    As for why South Korea would want peace with their belligerent nuclear-armed neighbor, with one of the world’s largest standing armies, that is currently positioned with the ability to kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of their civilians at a moment’s notice…

    ETA not to mention Moon’s parents are North Korean refugees, and the South Koreans in general would like some semblance of family unity.

  18. 18.

    sdhays

    May 18, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: They’re in charge there now. We don’t have a functioning State Department or President, and the Offal Office Occupant is prone to spews of war inducing diarrhea from his tweet hole and is advised by John Fucking Bolton, so why wouldn’t they want to take control of the situation and lock him into doing non-war-creating activities?

    Dangle the “deal” and “Nobel Prize” in front of him and he’s no longer talking about triggering a war that would kill millions of Koreans and Japanese.

  19. 19.

    TenguPhule

    May 18, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    @? Martin: I was talking about their loyalty to the brand. Threatening the brand would be a very stupid thing to do.

  20. 20.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:45 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: For one reason mentioned in the article, Moon was elected with 40% of the vote but now has a rating in the 70’s. All of South Korea despises Trump and any action Moon takes to warm relations with NK and stuff Trump into a box gets him more domestic authority.

  21. 21.

    tobie

    May 18, 2018 at 2:46 pm

    Hello Betty Cracker, DougJ! and JewishSteel haven’t been around lately to put up the BJ election fund link. Could you or one of the FPers add it to this post? Or maybe we can start a new donation group with Act Blue. Funds for candidates who support background checks and an assault weapons ban. Thanks. (Don’t mean to add extra work for anyone.)

  22. 22.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Moon’s comments being interpreted as a sly plan, may have been a combo of mistranslation and partial quote taken out of context.

    Some of Frum’s heart may be in the right place these days, but he makes mistakes (edit: or his analysis contains residual inherent dishonesty of GOPer loyalty) due to habit of looking at things from conventional GOP viewpoint, which contains a lot of BS, whether in Trump or never-Trump camp. I think hard to deny that Trump’s unique flaws played a large role in the current state of NK-US relations, but the BS GOP approach to these kinds of problems (talk feel-good tough man BS, posture about it for domestic partisan purposes, and then do nothing about it and let the problem get worse) gave Trump the required platform. Frum either can’t understand that or is censoring himself to promote a tendentious analysis.

  23. 23.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    @TenguPhule: Lu Kang? I am never getting into a negotiation with that bad mofo.
    /Mortal Kombat joke

  24. 24.

    Jeffro

    May 18, 2018 at 2:50 pm

    Looks like someone tried to set up a fake a Facebook page for today’s high school shooter…painting him as a HRC supporter + antifa. B/c of course.

    (Per Caroline O on Twitter)

  25. 25.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 2:51 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    @jl:
    @Corner Stone:
    @sdhays:

    I guess I understand where they’re coming from given current circumstances. I still can’t help feeling betrayed though. Trump is an illegimate Manchurian candidate placed into power by a hostile foreign power. They, along with our other allies, should be doing more to help us. I admit I don’t know what that would look like and there may be more going on behind the scenes, but I feel abandoned.

  26. 26.

    Dev Null

    May 18, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    @jl: In the end, #neverTrumpers like Frum and Kristol and Rick Wilson are arguing with movement conservatives about when to send LIE-berals to the gas chambers, not if.

    And yeah, for the most part #neverTrumpers are against getting us all killed in a nuclear holocaust, so at least in that sense they’re sane.

    But they’re still Republican apparatchiks.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    This is interesting. From Vox.

    After about nine months of negotiations, the US, Canada, and Mexico are far from settling on a final agreement.

    Experts say that the countries appear to be at an impasse over the US’s proposal for a five-year sunset clause that would require the countries to vote every five years on whether to stay in NAFTA. Canada and Mexico are staunchly opposed to the idea since it would create enormous uncertainty for businesses’ supply chains and investors.

    The US is also at odds with Canada and Mexico over its desire to get rid of the “investor-state dispute settlement” (ISDS) mechanism, a provision that allows corporations to sue foreign governments in tribunals if they think they’ve been wronged by them.

    The Canadians in particular don’t want to let this go; if they do, it will likely leave them with less power to respond to unilateral trade barriers on Canadian goods by the US.

    Another difference is that the US also favors more robust intellectual property protections than Canada and Mexico. They allow American corporations like pharmaceutical companies to hold patents on their products for a longer period of time and edge out foreign competition.

  28. 28.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 2:54 pm

    @jl: Unless I am misunderstanding the term tendentious, I see no evidence of that in this current Frum article. It seems a pretty standard layout of what we here have been discussing for some time. Trump is a buffoon who was played, is getting played, and will be so played the grooves are going to wear out. But there is no way he can possibly admit to that. You could see by the WH’s almost D-level acting job of nonchalance as to whether the Summit happened or not, that Trump is peeing his Depends. His inner voice is all but screaming, “I’LL DO ANYTHING! GIVE ANYTHING! JUST SHOW UP FOR OUR DATE!!”

  29. 29.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    @Jeffro: Initial reports I heard said no social media evidence of political motives (thought I don’t know how they would have had time to do an adequate search). But live news feed was talking about physical evidence the shooter was into reactionary and fascist symbols. So, we will see.

    Beyond that, there is the obvious problem of angry and disturbed men who can get their hands on powerful weapons far to easily, on a whim, that ties most of these shootings together, regardless of what political ideology they might adopt, sometimes almost as a mere pretext.

  30. 30.

    scottinnj

    May 18, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    In our town (blue town blue state NJ) our GOP council members have said ‘hey we are local, don’t hold Trump on us). And he lost

    Don’t focus on DJT/McConnell/Ryan. I live in NJ, I can’t help the 2020 Dem nominee. I can make the GOP toxic in my town from dog catcher up. If the dog catcher realizes he won’t get elected to council who wont gete elected to mayor who won’t got elected to state representative and so forth will things changes.

    Don’t get mad, vote.

  31. 31.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 18, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    @Baud: Daniel Dale covers NAFTA issue quite regularly but I mostly see this ignored in other outlets. Isn’t Canada our biggest trading partner? Our media is so useless.

  32. 32.

    RepubAnon

    May 18, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    @Corner Stone: Notice how Trump unilaterally decided to exempt China’s ZTE phone company from sanctions for trading with Iran and North Korea? I’d say the logic is that Trump is trying to give things to China in exchange for their help with a North Korea agreement. More poisoned bait for Mr. Credulous Guppy to swallow…

    This reminds me of Obama’s attempts to negotiate with the Republicans. He’d keep offering concessions, which the Republicans accepted without making any concessions. Then, the Republicans kept the concessions but declined the deal.

    The difference here is that Obama wasn’t billed as a skilled negotiator. Mr. “Art of the Deal” is falling for things that a first-year business administration student in Negotiations 101 would spot.

  33. 33.

    catclub

    May 18, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    tpm says that US and So.Korea caved on military joint ( B-52) exercises.

  34. 34.

    TenguPhule

    May 18, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    @RepubAnon:

    Notice how Trump unilaterally decided to exempt China’s ZTE phone company from sanctions for trading with Iran and North Korea?

    In return for half a billion in loan Guarantees from China for a Trump construction project.

  35. 35.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 18, 2018 at 2:59 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: North Korea sort of won the decades-long standoff we’ve had, after 3+ administrations of failing to stop their nuclear program. Letting Moon take the lead here is the best possible outcome given who’s president. Letting him take the lead is best for *us* too.

  36. 36.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 3:00 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    They, along with our other allies, should be doing more to help us. I admit I don’t know what that would look like and there may be more going on behind the scenes, but I feel abandoned.

    He’s threatening sanctions on the EU over Iran. I am not sure what you (or anyone) would expect of them?
    From all the reading I have skimmed across the tubes, and the few discussions I have had with colleagues elsewhere, the whole world is treating Trump like a blip on the radar. Sure, an erratic, dangerous blip but also one they expect to be gone in the very short term (according to the way they think). They are not very disposed to upending their own domestic agendas to babysit a bunch of ignorant racists in America. Almost all I have seen expect the transatlantic relationships et al to be put back on the rails pretty quickly after Trump is gone.
    Now, that may be optimistic, or maybe they can see a bigger picture from a distance. But right now they are more frustrated and annoyed than apocalyptic.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:00 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I think part of the problem is that there is a whole lot of nothing going on. I wonder if labor unions are at the table. That was one of the big criticisms of Obama from the left.

  38. 38.

    tobie

    May 18, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    @scottinnj: Thanks. Wise words for those of us who are beginning to feel frantic.

  39. 39.

    Brachiator

    May 18, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    President Trump has personally pushed U.S. Postmaster General Megan Brennan to double the rate the Postal Service charges Amazon.com and other firms to ship packages, according to three people familiar with their conversations, a dramatic move that probably would cost these companies billions of dollars.

    Brennan has so far resisted Trump’s demand, explaining in multiple conversations occurring this year and last that these arrangements are bound by contracts and must be reviewed by a regulatory commission, the three people said. She has told the president that the Amazon relationship is beneficial for the Postal Service and gave him a set of slides that showed the variety of companies, in addition to Amazon, that also partner for deliveries.

    Despite these presentations, Trump has continued to level criticism at Amazon.

    Trump in a nutshell. A woefully uninformed incompetent fueled by his resentments. What a fucking horror show.

  40. 40.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:03 pm

    @Corner Stone: OK, I admit that is my interpretation of the unstated assumptions behind Frum’s analysis. and opinion may differ. I think Frum is assuming that the standard GOP approach to NK and Iran is not total BS and will lead to situations like this regardless of whether Trump, or say a more competent person like Romney, were president. Trump’s unique incompetence and dishonesty is operating from several decades of a flawed GOP approach which has produced nothing but failure and steady creep towards disaster. Focusing solely on Trump’s BS gives a distorted picture.

  41. 41.

    Ohio Mom

    May 18, 2018 at 3:04 pm

    When my kid started high school six years ago, the front door opened into a lobby filled with couches (the waiting room kind), tables and chairs; at the far end, behind a counter, were the school secretaries. The gestalt was “come in, relax and hang out.”

    The secretaries kept a loose eye on things and were somewhat a part of the passing scene. The whole set up sent a message that the students were young adults now and could be responsible for their own comings and goings.

    Two years later there was a big renovation. The secretaries were moved to a glass box of an office next to the doors. To get into the building, they have to buzz you in, and you must enter the glass box and sign in.

    The couches, tables and chairs are gone. The corner where the secretaries used to be is a room covered in two way mirrors. It’s the police officer’s, oh I mean Resource Officer’s office (What he does in there all day is anybody’s guess).

    The foyer isn’t a hangout anymore, it’s a border crossing. Now I certainly get why the school did this (maybe less so for actual safety reasons and more to placate our suburban district’s snowflake parents).

    I wonder what the long term effect will be of all these students being told, by architecture and the shootings that are in the news almost weekly, that they must be afraid.

    Yes, some will turn into activists. But will others let the fears they have been fed turn them into hardcore authoritarians? Time will tell what the balance will be.

  42. 42.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    @RepubAnon: Wasn’t completely unilateral. China had to agree to a corrupt payoff to Trump first. Better to call it bilateral.

  43. 43.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Emma Gonzalez:

    Santa Fe High, you didn’t deserve this. You deserve peace all your lives, not just after a tombstone saying that is put over you. You deserve more than Thoughts and Prayers, and after supporting us by walking out we will be there to support you by raising up your voices.

    They did, too, there are pics of Santa Fe High kids walking out as part of the gun violence protest. In Texas that’s no small thing.

  44. 44.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 3:07 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Just to be clear, the “us” I’m using does not include Trump supporters/American racists. I mean the majority who didn’t support him, who are suffering under his rule (such as innocents being deported/held in detention facilities).

    As to their view that Trump is a blip, have they seen the rest of his party? How they bend over backwards to protect him? This isn’t a blip. This is a dangerous party that is a few decades away from putting their opponents in camps. Perhaps somebody should show them what the GOP candidate for OK governor thinks people on government assistance should do (submit to self-euthanasia rather than take anymore of his “hard-earned” tax dollars).

    They need to get their heads of their asses and realize that the GOP represent a grave threat to global security.

  45. 45.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    @Brachiator: An extortionate increase will just lead to sending the business elsewhere and Amazon spending more resources on developing its own in-house distribution system.

    Now, a really smart guy who studied business at Wharton should understand that.

  46. 46.

    ruemara

    May 18, 2018 at 3:09 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Help us? The folks that blithely walked into the most fucking avoidable trap ever? Dude. We need to help ourselves and these are just the first fucking consequences. You think folks abroad are mad at America about Trump? Hell no! They know the weakness in America are it’s people. Left & right. The left wander off like distracted sugar-addled children because they’d much rather fight each other about being holy purity, while the right have no cleverness, no brain power & no wisdom besides a slimy, corrupt intellect fully devoted to every method of cheating, stealing and destruction. I have no illusions about our allies giving us their full trust until we’ve proven we can act like half-grown adults for a few election cycles.

  47. 47.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    That good ol’ frontier spirit.

    If you care about fishing or boating Colorado’s rivers, this ongoing legal case should have relevance for you. Roger Hill is a 76-year-old Coloradan who likes to fish while standing on the bed of a stream. One of his favorite spots is a stretch of the Arkansas River below Salida.

    A local landowner claims that Hill is trespassing when he stands on the streambed adjacent to the landowner’s property. He has responded by repeatedly throwing rocks at Hill while he is fishing and leaving threatening notes on his car. The landowner even shot at one of Hill’s fishing buddies, though he was thrown in jail for that little stunt.

    Hill claims a right to fish from the streambed on the grounds that the stretch of the Arkansas River where he fishes is navigable and that the state of Colorado thereby owns the bed of the stream. So he sued the landowner.

    Now, Colorado has moved to dismiss the case, arguing that it cannot go forward without the state’s participation. In a complicated argument, the state also claims that because it has not consented to being sued, the case must be dismissed. Mind you, the state could simply waive its immunity claim and support the right of people like Hill to fish. Instead, the state is actively seeking to block Hill’s claim that he has the right to access navigable streams.

    Wonder who’s side Zinke would take? Kidding, Zinke probably wants to limit voting to landowners.

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    May 18, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    For one reason mentioned in the article, Moon was elected with 40% of the vote but now has a rating in the 70’s.

    Even better than that. From the May 10 USA Today:

    … , Moon Jae-in celebrated his one-year anniversary in office Thursday riding the highest numbers a South Korean president has ever seen in his first year.

    Moon garnered an 83% approval rating, buoyed by his April summit meeting with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, according to an opinion poll released Thursday by KBS, Korea’s national public broadcaster.

    The numbers echo several other polls released in recent days, with Gallup Korea showing Moon with a 83% favorable rating.

    Moon’s handshake with Kim and steps across the border in North Korea culminated a year of stunning progress on the diplomatic front for the South Korean leader.

    Moon has done actual diplomacy while dipshit Trump preens like an angry infant and tries to take credit for doing nothing.

  49. 49.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 18, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    @ruemara:

    I have no illusions about our allies giving us their full trust until we’ve proven we can act like half-grown adults for a few election cycles.

    Seriously, we can’t even get three in a row right.

  50. 50.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    @jl:

    I think Frum is assuming that the standard GOP approach to NK and Iran is not total BS and will lead to situations like this regardless of whether Trump, or say a more competent person like Romney, were president.

    I think in this specific GOP case we need to keep Iran separate from dealing with NK. While I agree the GOP would probably bluster their way along with both, Iran brings Israel into the picture and everyone gets wrapped around the axle. I would suggest that if Romney or probably 14 of the GOP candidates had been elected they would not have fallen into this Summit trap that Trump is in. While they may want the kudos that engagement might bring, they know what the Kim family is all about, and actually understand a little history. The rapid escalation, name calling, then bizarre sweet talk by Trump would not have happened under a different GOP person. There would have been many State Dept sternly worded letters submitted, and maybe some more sanctions, etc. Kim wants one thing and desires one other thing. Trump has already given him his desire to be seen as equal on the world stage. Now Trump is also mouthing that he will protect Kim and make him wealthy and powerful. I have a hard time believing that would have happened with anyone but Trump.

  51. 51.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    Like father like shooter?

    In an initial dive into the background and history of the Texas student who is accused of shooting up Santa Fe High School in Houston on Friday — killing at least ten — Heavy reports that the father of the alleged shooter was fan of controversial NRA spokesperson Dana Loesch.

    According to Heavy’s report, Antonios Pagourtzis — the father of suspected shooter Dimitrios Pagourtzis — posted a “like” for Loesch on his Facebook page. It should be noted that Pagourtzis has not posted on his personal page since 2016, well before the Parkland shooting, but Loesch was the only news or media personality listed.

  52. 52.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    @Brachiator:
    We’ll see. This has happened before without real lasting success.

  53. 53.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    @Corner Stone: I think it would have happened, but with far less public display of the dilemma US and its allies find themselves. So, we disagree, or maybe we can finesse to over to semantics.

  54. 54.

    D58826

    May 18, 2018 at 3:19 pm

    @trollhattan: Sen. Cruz just said that the school shooting is a horror beyond words. As he continues to talk and talk and talk.

  55. 55.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:19 pm

    @trollhattan: I think Western state and local governments caving into landowning interests to do WTF they want has been a problem for well over 100 years. The link indicates a gimmick in Colorado law which makes the problem particularly acute in that state:

    ” In Colorado, you are deemed a trespasser if you merely float over a riverbed adjacent to private property. As a result, Colorado recreational boaters and fishers use Colorado’s waterways at the sufferance of private landowners. ”

    IANAL, but I think California constitution and law gives landowner much less power and leverage, going all the way back to nineteenth century when CA was admitted.

  56. 56.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 3:19 pm

    @ruemara:
    I’m pissed that they don’t even seem to be able to call our mass deportations of innocents what it is: ethnic cleansing.

  57. 57.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 18, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    @Baud: Unlikely, unless there is a labor union for hedge funders like the Mercers.

  58. 58.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    May 18, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    It feels to me like everything about this administration is accelerating. The criminality we hear about and the damage they Trump and the Rs do.

    I don’t know how Mueller can even end his investigation. Every day they give him new crimes.

    On the damage end, they’re trying to destroy Planned Parenthood, keep guns in everyone’s hands, start a war with Iran, and convince our European allies we’re unreliable.

  59. 59.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 18, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    You’re right that its probably the best outcome possible right now. I still don’t like it. Our reputation is being completely dragged through the mud.

  60. 60.

    Brachiator

    May 18, 2018 at 3:22 pm

    @jl:

    An extortionate increase will just lead to sending the business elsewhere and Amazon spending more resources on developing its own in-house distribution system.

    Now, a really smart guy who studied business at Wharton should understand that.

    Ha! Trump ain’t smart and he probably never studied. But how could we compare Jeff Bezos and Trump. Hmmm. One measure:

    Jeff Bezos 2018 net worth: $131 billion
    Trump 2018 net worth: $3.1 billion. Maybe. Who knows for sure because Trump is too afraid to show the world what he’s made of.

  61. 61.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 18, 2018 at 3:22 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): European allies need no convincing they knew it the day the Orange One won.

  62. 62.

    germy

    May 18, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    @Brachiator: He shows the world what he’s made of every day.

  63. 63.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:27 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I agree, my only quibble with MMM’s statement is that I don’t think it is possible for any outside country to ‘stop’ a nuclear program of any other country that has a minimum level or resources (Edit: short of blowing up the country). So, the failure was inevitable. An outside country can inveigle and negotiate a country away from deciding to attaining certain milestones toward a credible and tested nuclear delivery capability that can actually be used in a crisis. The problem is how to negotiate what milestone the country chooses to attain in the most advantageous way.

  64. 64.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 18, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: details pending obviously but peace in Korea is probably a good outcome for a great very many people. If this shit stain gets some of the credit just for not whipping his dick out… I mean, that’s kind of ok! It won’t be quite as beneficial to us as it could have been but, better done than not.

    @jl: I mean, that’s one of the big reasons we failed!

  65. 65.

    Wapiti

    May 18, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    @jl: iirc, California law is that continuous flowing waterways and their banks are public property up to the high water mark. Intermittent streams – those that went dry for part of the year – weren’t protected the same way. I don’t know if that is a relic of Spanish and Mexican law, or of the gold rush, but that’s the rules we obeyed when I was a kid.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah, all the SECRET NEGOTIATIONS! people have gone silent too.

  67. 67.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 3:31 pm

    @Brachiator: Whatever Trump’s actual net worth is, it is certainly significantly more now than before he ran for office.
    I hope there’s some kind of forfeiture/seizure/clawback associated that LEO can slap on there.

  68. 68.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: That’s how I feel.

  69. 69.

    Wapiti

    May 18, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    @gVOR08:

    Amazon and the USPS were probably saved by Chris Hayes broadcast of the Bill Gates video. Trump will shift his fire to Apple.

    I think this is particularly funny because Bill Gates has nothing to do with Apple.

  70. 70.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    @Baud: NAFTA is a known entity. The parts they are struggling with are all already on the table. Who knows what they will end up with but the broad strokes and outline already exist for public consumption.
    I still don’t like ISDS.

  71. 71.

    Wapiti

    May 18, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    @Corner Stone: I’d like Congress (the new Congress after November) to treat all of the foreign emoluments as gifts, which must be reported and remain the property of the US Government.

  72. 72.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    @Wapiti: Thanks for info. I never thought about the ‘why’ of California’s commie approach to seashore, lakes and rivers. The Whites had to cater to the traditions and interests of the Californio population, otherwise the Mexican War wouldn’t have been wrapped up so quickly and neatly here, and would have been too many internal disputes for quick admission to US.

    But the Whites reneged on many of those parts of constitution and law in 1879, but not others. So, kind of a mystery. There was a big dispute between ag and mining landowning interests, over whether mining companies could use rivers as their own private industrial sewers at the expense of ruining everyone else within a mile of rivers all the way from the Sierras to SF Bay. Maybe that had something to do with it.

  73. 73.

    VeniceRiley

    May 18, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    @Brachiator: I wish Bezos would buy Fox News. I really do.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    @Corner Stone: I don’t know why that matters when it comes to criticisms of the process. And we kind of knew the broad strokes of TPP before it was finalized.

  75. 75.

    Brachiator

    May 18, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    We’ll see. This has happened before without real lasting success.

    North Korea/South Korea relations? True enough, but things change. I don’t know squat about North Korea, but I got questions.

    Kim ain’t his father or his grandfather. is he really good at that strongman thing? Where is it getting him?

    South Korea’s prosperity has accelerated greatly over the past few decades. So has that of China. China is still communist, kinda, but their economy has taken off since they loosened various economic strictures. North Korea, their client, is still mired in deep authoritarian bullshit and is becoming more of a liability.

    A core of North Korea’s military is formidable. Supposedly. But Kim can barely keep his soldiers fed. I don’t think that the North could mount a sustained attack on South Korea. And I think their army would defect like a muthafucka.

    In short, my totally uninformed speculation is that North Korea is treading water. The authoritarian facade may crack. Even if Kim wants to be major dictator, he cannot sustain it, and the countries that backed him are getting tired of his shit.

    Bottom line. I don’t think the old North Korean games work as well anymore. They got missiles. What are they going to do with them? The country is still largely starving and an economic dead end.

    Unfortunately, we are stuck with our own Dipshit Dear Leader who could not make a deal with a bag of potato chips, and doesn’t know how to get any results out of the opportunity that may be presenting itself here.

  76. 76.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 18, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    @Baud: Our fucking side excels at own goals. TPP had many detractors on Balloon Juice too.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    @Brachiator: It’s possible our current weakness makes a deal more likely, since Kim might be convinced this is his best chance at get the best deal.

  78. 78.

    ruemara

    May 18, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I swear that’s all I’d like. just master doing this for 3 cycles. voting sane.

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: People want to still believe that Nana & Uncle Carl & cousin Chet are good people with a few awful beliefs. They can’t handle the idea that those loving relatives are also more than willing to have state sanctioned ethnic cleansing, mass murder, slavery & stripping of rights from gays & women (the white ones, since everyone else will get the aforementioned). I mildly sympathize, but I excise evil from my presence with ruthlessness, as the good lord intended.

    I know my parents’ current interest in getting my citizenship is to prevent me from being caught up in ICE bullshit or my green card renewal being denied because I won’t turn over social media or anything not relevant to my application, but I don’t have that faith in people.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m not against debate and criticism. I just want it to be consistently applied to both sides. We mock people who only care about the deficit when Dems are in power. Absent a better explanation, I see no reason to treat the anti-trade groups differently.

  80. 80.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 18, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    It was President Moon who slyly insinuated that Trump deserved a Nobel Prize for the summit—bait that Trump swallowed like a credulous guppy.

    Great turn of phrase. Also, the name of my next band.

  81. 81.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    @Baud: No we didn’t. We knew the WH propaganda about what TPP was. Which was so transparently bullshit that it was mindblowing they’d try it on.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    @Corner Stone: I’m not interested in going back to check, but I recall people talking about the provisions (learned through leaks or otherwise) well before the final text was released.

    ETA:
    Quick Google search: First hit was this article from 2013.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/12/11/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-trans-pacific-partnership/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8c2e0167f4d2

    Do we know any more about what Trump is doing with the NAFTA rewrite?

  83. 83.

    Brachiator

    May 18, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    @germy:

    He shows the world what he’s made of every day.

    Ha! True dat!

  84. 84.

    dedc79

    May 18, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    Texas Lt General just blamed the number of casualties on the school having too many entrances/exits. He said there should only be one.

    I usually criticize politicians for offering “thoughts and prayers” after shootings, but I’m starting to think I don’t want some of these people making policy at all.

  85. 85.

    JPL

    May 18, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    This shooting was so unnecessary, because Congress can act to remove guns from households that pose a threat. In this case the dad owned the guns, and charge him also. I so hate these f.kers, because just a few days ago the students were probably arguing about Yanni and Laurel. fk em

  86. 86.

    eric

    May 18, 2018 at 3:50 pm

    @dedc79: if there is only one exit, I wonder where the shooter would funnel people….the thought is that a mass shooting is much more likely than a fire. sadly, yes.

  87. 87.

    Cacti

    May 18, 2018 at 3:50 pm

    Shooter was a white kid.

    So, lone wolf who played too many video games, not a terrorist.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    @Cacti: I’m glad. Saves us a week of racist chest-thumping.

  89. 89.

    Peale

    May 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    @dedc79: Arsonists dream that solution.

  90. 90.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    @Baud: The only parts learned were through leaks, as I recall. And look, I don’t want multi-lateral negotiations to be on C-SPAN or in the WaPo summary every day. That’s not how that works. But we were getting stuffed into a dark stable corner and told “Trust Us” when there was no one at the table for us to even consider trusting. I’m not going in my time machine either but it was something like 70% corporate reps, some Govt amount and 10% or less for labor.
    And listen, when the underlying premise of why we must do the deal is to “contain” China in APAC, and mollify their effects on our trading partners – that’s a fail from jump. It can’t be done so don’t try selling it to me. I know what wage exportation looks like when I see it.

    ETA, I’m not clicking on WaPo, but thanks for the link.

  91. 91.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    @Baud: I would prefer the US return to true multilateral global trade negotiations, and am a skeptic of the regional deals that the US has been doing ever since. I have no problem with the ‘free trade’ parts of TPP and NAFTA, but question the IP and arbitration rules that favor large multi-national and national corporations at the expense of everyone else.

    People forget that there is an alternative to these regional deals, and that the US walked away from those because big agricultural and corporate interests wanted everything on their wish list, and would give noting in rerun. There is mix of very good and very bad in TPP and NAFTA that makes them net out on the questionable side for me personally as a voter and tax payer.

    The US could go back to multilateral global trade negotiations. We would have to make concessions to not only China, and also countries like Brazil, India, So Africa, Kenya, etc. I can’t speak for other critics, but I think there is a superior alternative to both reactionary autarky and regional deals.

    And with Trump, apparently we will make concessions to China, just in the form of corrupt payoffs that benefit the Trumpsters.

    Edit: to be fair, Canada, Australia, and many interests in EU also backed US corporate stance, but once the US walked off, similar corporate and agricultural interests in those countries won the day, and it was game over for global trade negotiations.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    May 18, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Corner Stone: I’m not re-debating TPP. I’m saying that if those process concerns are sincerely held, then they should apply to every major trade deal, including the NAFTA rewrite. And from what I can see, those process concerns are not being raised.

    And maybe that’s because labor does have a seat at the table this time. I haven’t heard one way or the other. If that’s the case, then that’s great precedent for them.

  93. 93.

    dedc79

    May 18, 2018 at 3:59 pm

    @Peale: like trying to prevent yourself from getting sick by taping up all your airways except for one nostril.

  94. 94.

    MJS

    May 18, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    @Cacti: Also cause to briefly mention mental illness. But not guns. Never guns.

  95. 95.

    Brachiator

    May 18, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    @Baud:

    It’s possible our current weakness makes a deal more likely, since Kim might be convinced this is his best chance at get the best deal.

    Who knows? Everybody talks about “a deal,” but nobody talks about what anybody actually wants or is trying to achieve. And I have a hard time believing that Trump has a clue about anything.

    But I got no idea what might happen if this meeting still takes place. And you could be as right as anybody, and Trump’s real weakness (as opposed to his pretensions of strength) might result in something tangible being achieved. That would be a hell of a deal.

  96. 96.

    satby

    May 18, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    Hershey update (sorry email friends for repeating): So Hershey ripped some muscle and pulled tendons in his shoulder, painful but not serious. They didn’t feel the need for additional tests beyond a thorough exam (yay), though if he doesn’t seem to be improving after a week or they will do some imaging then. He’s got some good painkillers and is now sleeping his rough day off. He and Rosie were joyous at being reunited….
    And I am now going to take a short nap since I was up most of the night. But, personal birthday happiness salvaged, though curtailed by another needless slaughter. Thanks again for the good wishes all!

  97. 97.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 4:08 pm

    @Baud:

    And from what I can see, those process concerns are not being raised.

    They are in the news and print every day that they meet. I know more about this NAFTA process “rewrite” than I did over the extended genesis of the original NAFTA. And I somewhat paid attention. There’s a whole quote upthread about what Canada is not willing to stand for, and their concerns in this process.
    Anyway, I found your critique to be not holding water so…wevs

  98. 98.

    gvg

    May 18, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I don’t think we can stop alternating putting republicans back in power unless some of the awful things they want actually happen to a number of people. Our morons have to learn by burning their little hands a bit. Europe is being hurt too so if they really had the ability to save us more effectively, I am not sure it’s in their best interests to do it too soon. I also think they would have to be careful because normally we react very badly to outside meddling. Another problem is they have their own fascists trying to get power and outside meddling. Brexit is on par with electing Trump and I doubt it’s coincidence that Spain has a seperatist movement breaking out now. Anyway the real problem is too many very ignorant people voting.
    Saying something like let them burn their hand makes me very edgy. This is not a safe place to be. I just don’t see that they allied countries have much ability do fix our problems. A little help from cops and spies maybe and just trying to be sane is all I know of helpful.
    The problem is we are all miserable and want this danger past. But allies can’t do much I think.

    I hate Trump voters.

  99. 99.

    dmbeaster

    May 18, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    @jl:

    California’s commie approach to seashore, lakes and rivers

    Its based in part on centuries old common law tradition from England, but modified by the appropriative rights doctrine developed in the West concerning first use (as opposed to riparian use). Ownership of the land under navigable lakes, streams and seashores has always been with the government and is not unique to California. Even when the waters are not navigable and ownership of the land under waters is private, the government can regulate the waters for the public good — the individual’s ownership of the land does not give him exclusive rights to how the water on that land can be used.

    Another common law doctrine is that the government has the duty to manage waters for the public good (the public trust doctrine), which is also derived from common law. This doctrine was the basis for the decision that held that although the City of Los Angeles owned the water rights to the streams that fed Lake Mono, it could be barred from using diversion of water from those streams that would destroy Lake Mono.

  100. 100.

    Gex

    May 18, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    @jl: Sounds like the first victim was a girl too. How often are these school shootings about angry boys getting revenge on girls? I can think back all the way to the 1998 Jonesboro school shooting that happened because a boy was mad a girl wouldn’t go out with him. White male motivated by misogynistic impulses is a super common theme in these.

  101. 101.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 18, 2018 at 4:28 pm

    @Brachiator:

    dipshit Trump preens like an angry infant and tries to take credit for doing nothing.

    Didn’t notice that anyone commented about this on BJ, but yesterday when Trump was having a joint presser with the NATO Secretary General, he went on about his usual thing of NATO member countries “paying their fair share,” and then kind of pushed the SG into saying agreeing. When the SG allowed as how most countries were getting closer to their target 2% of GDP, Trump interrupted him with “I hope you gave me credit!”

    The man’s neediness is bottomless and pathological.

  102. 102.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    @dmbeaster: Thanks very much for info. But IIRC, every time I read about details of state constitution or law in a case in the news, it seems like California has an approach that is particularly protective of public use, and much of that goes back over 100 years. The gimmick in the Colorado law, which is still ‘West’ enough to qualify as similar to California, is an example. So, I am still curious about the details.

    OTOH, it is true that California was particularly backward and friendly of landowner rip off wrt to groundwater until just a couple of years ago. So, it might just be happenstance quirks that very from state to state.

  103. 103.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    @Gex: New information came out that the Vegas shooter was angry about the gumming taking his stuff, which his sick mind somehow connected to string of bad luck at the gambling tables. So, that was about money. But, like many, he abused women.

    Male anger and alienation, plus abusive personality, plus effortless access to weapons of mass slaughter certainly a common factor. More so than allegiance to any political cause, either left or right.

    It may not be so much that all of these shootings by angry white males are really right wing terrorism, any more than that the Florida Pulse nightclub shooting is an example of Islamic radical terrorism. What is a more obvious problem is the double standard in how the media and law enforcement report it.

    Even more obvious is that whatever the root cause of the shooters’ actions, and however it should be described as we understand it more, getting dangerous weapons and ammo at will is a common factor that can easily be fixed. That is the million pound elephant-gorilla in the room.

  104. 104.

    Teddys Person

    May 18, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    @dedc79: Someone should ask him how that worked out at the Triangle Shirtwaiste Factory.

  105. 105.

    JustRuss

    May 18, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    All I want for Xmas is a gavel. In Nancy Pelosi’s hand.

  106. 106.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 18, 2018 at 5:08 pm

    @Corner Stone: My Penzey’s box finally arrived yesterday. Looks promising.

  107. 107.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2018 at 5:20 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Mine showed up after a little over two weeks. I usually like to fresh grind my spices but they had some mixes that I wanted to try. So I guess we’ll see.

  108. 108.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 18, 2018 at 5:27 pm

    @Corner Stone: Same here. I have a dedicated coffee grinder just for spices.

  109. 109.

    Fleeting Expletive

    May 18, 2018 at 5:57 pm

    Did anyone ever find those nuclear hand-grenades or whatever that was in a box that fell off of a military truck a few days ago? The news, of course, has moved on, but it’s still a mystery.

  110. 110.

    Elizabelle

    May 18, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @satby: Good to hear. Get better, Hershey. And HB, satby.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    May 18, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @dedc79:

    Texas Lt General just blamed the number of casualties on the school having too many entrances/exits. He said there should only be one.

    Yes, there’s no way a gunman could stand outside that single exit and kill people as they come out. Great plan!

    Not to mention how many kids would die if the school ever caught fire.

  112. 112.

    J R in WV

    May 18, 2018 at 6:04 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    Say whut? No, the smallest real ones were barely able to fit into a backpack or small suitcase, hence called suitcase bombs. Not much bang either. All gone long ago.

    Link? Do I know you?

  113. 113.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 18, 2018 at 7:36 pm

    @dmbeaster: I think you’re thinking mainly of Owens Lake, LA takes it’s supply south of Mono Lake.

  114. 114.

    jl

    May 18, 2018 at 8:39 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I think both Mono and Owns Lake could be correct. There were long court and regulatory battles over both lakes, and the lakes won, at least enough to survive in the end. Both were ultimately about groundwater issues, pumping ground water, which dried up streams that fed both lakes. So in California, landowners could pretty much do what they wanted for a very long time, until environmental law and regs were in place and enforced.

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