Legal turduckens Jay Sekulow and John Dowd prepared a twenty page legal memo explaining why the President could not obstruct justice and therefore should not be interviewed by the Special Counsel as part of the Special Counsel’s ongoing investigation. Someone leaked it to The New York Times. And since Special Counsel Mueller and his staff never leak and officially have almost nothing to say that isn’t said in court filings or in court itself, it is most likely someone on or near the President’s legal team. And given the genius level legal representation that the President is both able to attract and retain, that likelihood is approaching certainty. The New York Times has the details:
In a brash assertion of presidential power, the 20-page letter — sent to the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and obtained by The New York Times — contends that the president cannot illegally obstruct any aspect of the investigation into Russia’s election meddling because the Constitution empowers him to, “if he wished, terminate the inquiry, or even exercise his power to pardon.”
Mr. Trump’s lawyers fear that if he answers questions, either voluntarily or in front of a grand jury, he risks exposing himself to accusations of lying to investigators, a potential crime or impeachable offense.
Mr. Trump’s broad interpretation of executive authority is novel and is likely to be tested if a court battle ensues over whether he could be ordered to answer questions. It is unclear how that fight, should the case reach that point, would play out. A spokesman for Mr. Mueller declined to comment.
Hand-delivered to the special counsel’s office in January and written by two of the president’s lawyers at the time, John M. Dowd and Jay A. Sekulow, the letter offers a rare glimpse into one side of the high-stakes negotiations over a presidential interview.
“Ensuring that the office remains sacred and above the fray of shifting political winds and gamesmanship is of critical importance,” they wrote.
They argued that the president holds a special position in the government and is busy running the country, making it difficult for him to prepare and sit for an interview. They said that because of those demands on Mr. Trump’s time, the special counsel’s office should have to clear a higher bar to get him to talk. Mr. Mueller, the president’s attorneys argued, needs to prove that the president is the only person who can give him the information he seeks and that he has exhausted all other avenues for getting it.
“The president’s prime function as the chief executive ought not be hampered by requests for interview,” they wrote. “Having him testify demeans the office of the president before the world.”
They also contended that nothing Mr. Trump did violated obstruction-of-justice statutes, making both a technical parsing of what one such law covers and a broad constitutional argument that Congress cannot infringe on how he exercises his power to supervise the executive branch. Because of the authority the Constitution gives him, it is impossible for him to obstruct justice by shutting down a case or firing a subordinate, no matter his motivation, they said.
“Every action that the president took was taken with full constitutional authority pursuant to Article II of the United States Constitution,” they wrote of the part of the Constitution that created the executive branch. “As such, these actions cannot constitute obstruction, whether viewed separately or even as a totality.”
As one would expect of a legal memo produced by a well past his prime John Dowd and a never was grifter of the religiously devout Jay Sekulow, the memo is full of errors in legal reasoning. Again from The New York Times (emphasis mine):
“There could not possibly have been intent to obstruct an ‘investigation’ that had been neither confirmed nor denied to White House counsel,” the president’s lawyers wrote.
Moreover, F.B.I. investigations do not qualify as the sort of “proceeding” an obstruction-of-justice statute covers, they argued.
“Of course, the president of the United States is not above the law, but just as obvious and equally as true is the fact that the president should not be subjected to strained readings and forced applications of clearly irrelevant statutes,” Mr. Dowd and Mr. Sekulow wrote.
But the lawyers based those arguments on an outdated statute, without mentioning that Congress passed a broader law in 2002 that makes it a crime to obstruct proceedings that have not yet started.
Samuel W. Buell, a Duke Law School professor and white-collar criminal law specialist who was a lead prosecutor for the Justice Department’s Enron task force, said the real issue was whether Mr. Trump obstructed a potential grand jury investigation or trial — which do count as proceedings — even if the F.B.I. investigation had not yet developed into one of those. He called it inexplicable why the president’s legal team was making arguments that were focused on the wrong obstruction-of-justice statute.
It's not exactly confidence inspiring on the part of @realDonaldTrump's lawyers that their statutory (as opposed to constitutional) analysis is focused on the _wrong_ federal obstruction-of-justice statute—18 U.S.C. § 1505 instead of 18 U.S.C. § 1512:https://t.co/4ZZ2jQ0Qrs https://t.co/EmKbvB25ES
— Steve Vladeck (@steve_vladeck) June 2, 2018
I award footnote 23 no points, and I’d like to see whoever thought they could get away with it in my office. https://t.co/SZykhRXezh pic.twitter.com/jJ7sbFzwwn
— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 2, 2018
Under this logic, the president could open a booth on Pennsylvania Ave to accept bribes, people under federal investigation could stop by with a briefcase full of cash, and he could order their investigations closed—all without incurring any criminal liability for himself. pic.twitter.com/3WI2ZVff07
— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 2, 2018
And my two favorite errors brought to us courtesy of Southpaw:
Not a fan of footnote 48. pic.twitter.com/PlandBYk73
— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 2, 2018
hahahaha pic.twitter.com/9EyGNckz2T
— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 2, 2018
Of course because Dowd should have stayed in retirement and Sekulow should have continued to fleece Pat Robertson’s flock, these aren’t the only errors. They admit in the memo that the President did, indeed, author the fraudulent statement for his son regarding the 9 June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower between Jr, Jared, Manafort, and a variety of Russian assets and agents.
For the first time, Trump’s lawyers say he dictated his son’s response to NYT over Russian lawyer meeting. They call the statement “short but accurate.” https://t.co/NJigLuXPfi
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) June 2, 2018
As David Corn writes, this has just further increased Jr’s legal jeopardy.
The sentence is also striking in that it undercuts the veracity of Trump Jr.’s testimony to Congress.
Then Trump Jr., according to the transcript, which was recently released, was asked about the Washington Poststory noting that his father had actually drafted that statement. This exchange ensued:
Q. The Washington Post has since reported that your father was involved in drafting your July 8th statement. Isthat correct?
A. I don’t know. I never spoke to my father about it.
Q. Do you know who did draft that statement?
A. Well, there were numerous statements drafted with counsel and other people were involved and, you know, opined.
Q. To the best of your knowledge, did the President provide any edits to the statement or other input
A. He may have commented through Hope Hicks.
Q. And do you know if his comments provided through Hope Hicks were incorporated into the final statement?
A. I believe some may have been,but this was an effort through lots of people, mostly counsel.
Q. Did you ask him to provide any assistance with the statement?
A. No. She asked if I wanted to actually speak to him, and I chose not to because I didn’t want to bring him into something that he had nothing to do with.
Trump Jr. certainly did not inform the committee that his father had dictated the statement. In fact, he made it seem as if Trump was marginally involved, if at all. Yet according to the letter written by Trump’s own lawyers, Trump was in charge of the statement.
Trump Jr.’s remarks to the committee conveyed an inaccurate impression and can be seen as an attempt to provide cover for his pop. They might even be considered false statements. By the way, it’s a crime to lie to Congress.
As was noted in The New York Times reporting:
A spokesman for Mr. Mueller declined to comment.
Open thread!
Baud
The NYT is garbage.
TS (the original)
Haven’t read all of the post – but when I saw this – hahahahahahahahaha
And who has turned the office into a whirlpool of political winds and gamesmanship. What idiot thinks this has not been achieved? Happened on day 1 with the massive enormous crowds at the inauguration.
Davis X. Machina
Any 17th c. European would recognize it instantly
The sovereign is God’s vicar on earth, and cannot be resisted, because blasphemy.
He doesn’t have to be personally moral, or pious, or even fit for the job.
Corner Stone
Emphasis mine. This is all they needed to leak. Now it will swell and become accepted argumentation.
Steve in the ATL
So Adam you just took my post from the previous thread, expanded it a little bit, and acted like it was your idea that while time? For shame!
Corner Stone
Why would they use the correct one when this suits their purposes just fine?
Corner Stone
JPL
Fox will use the letter, and then mention that these are highly qualified lawyers who understand the rule of law. The fix is in.
This is the sentence that depressed me..
Fortunately, another commenter below suggested that might not be the case.
jharp
It all points to Trump is guilty as fuck and he is shitting his pants.
And it seems to me that the pace has picked up. Considerably.
jl
@Baud:
” The NYT is garbage. ”
Quit flattering them to get the coverage you want for Baud 2020!
Just man up and show up and take a piss in their front lobby.
SiubhanDuinne
Haven’t even started reading the thread yet, but this …
… is pure gold.
JPL
@Baud: Lawfareblog has the document up, and you can read it there. Have a drink handy.
jl
Thanks for a great post. I didn’t know legal brief footnote humor could be so hilarious.
Baud
Truth be told, I would love to get Trump on grounds other than obstruction. He’s a worse criminal than that.
jl
@SiubhanDuinne: turducken slander. Why not go after deep fried turkeys? Seems more appropriate.
Edit: Adam L Silverman, you will strike ‘turduckens’ and substitute ‘deep fried turkeys’. You are grounded for the next fifteen minutes while you go to your room for some sober self-reflection, young man. (you are sober, right? If not, never mind, take a load off and enjoy your day).
Steve in the ATL
@JPL: of course the Special Counsel didn’t agree to that!
I get the same bullshit from one of the unions I deal with. “Three years ago at the bargaining table, we all agreed…”. Nice try, assholes, but I have bargaining notes. And a signed contract.
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: Actually I hadn’t been in the previous thread since around 2 PM when I posted my last comment. So I hadn’t seen your’s.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
They misspelled “led.” They are dead to me.
Baud
@JPL: How about I have a drink without reading poor legal reasoning.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: That is most certainly not the case.
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman: I was kidding. Same general theme, but mine was a brief off the cuff statement, whereas yours clearly involved a good amount of preparation.
debbie
Does “intent” when used in legal proceedings have the same meaning as when normal people use it? Because I think Trump is nothing but intent.
Steve in the ATL
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): how do you feel about Led Zeppelin? Checking for consistency.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I like the completely blank one.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I don’t drink.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Fixed it for you.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
IT’S REDACTED!
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: I got in, did a quick check of headlines, and went “well that’s the next post…” And off to the races I went.
jl
@debbie: I asked the BJ flying squad how to determine legal liability for a clearly deranged person who clearly would like to rob a bank, but can’t get any further than standing across the street and loudly and incoherently demanding that they give him money, while spinning around in circles. I never got an answer.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: No. If it was redacted it would have a black bar over it.
Another Scott
Dowd resigned on or around March 22. I’m sure there’s some important reason why this bit of legalese is hitting the news today.
Maybe something with Donnie and his minions insisting on staying in the news and setting the terms of the debate every single day. And the national press being more than happy to make sure it gets as many eyeballs and clicks as possible. Maybe.
To be clear – my view is that it doesn’t matter if the legal arguments can and will be laughed out of court for Donnie’s minions to think this is a great strategy. What matters to Donnie and his minions is getting and keeping his “base” engaged and giving them half-way (but no more) plausible arguments that everything Donnie is doing is great and anyone who opposes him is trying to steal the Presidency away from him. That’s what all the tweeting is about, that’s what the rallies are about, that’s what all these “leaks” and TV appearances are about.
We need to say that all of this is stupid and contrary to the rule of law, yes, but we need to keep our eyes on the prize. It’s not going to get better until they leave office (probably by being voted out, maybe by being forced out).
157 days to go…
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: Not even water?
Steve in the ATL
@debbie: some crimes or civil actions require intent; others do not and perpetrator is strictly liable for it.
An easy example is the difference between murder and manslaughter.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: If you are high on your own supply, that counts too and I graciously suspend your doom.
Steve in the ATL
@jl: Perhaps your retainer check bounced?
jl
The brief was tacky. A similar Baud 2020! brief would be written in fake gold leaf on black velvet, in an artful cursive script.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Trump is a facist. He redacts only in white.
JPL
Trump has the over the 65 crowd, I just don’t thing the argument if a president does it, it’s not illegal works with them.
debbie
@Another Scott:
Maybe the leaker (John Miller, was he calling himself?) should just leak things like this to Breitbart or NewsMax. That’s where his supporters are.
jl
@Steve in the ATL: My favorite footnote was ‘courts have said so’ or whatever it was.
Baud
@jl: You’re familiar with my work!
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: You have my permission.
khead
I watched Frost/Nixon again yesterday. These folks should just skip ahead to “When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal.”
Baud
Twenty pages is a lot of words to say “There are five Republican justices.”
TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate)
They are not geniuses, no, but their goal isn’t to make good legal argument. Their goal is a political narrative for the base.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud:
A capital idea, old bean!
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: Thank you. I think I’ll have a gin & tonic.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: that’s the plot of John Grisham’s The Gorsuch Protocol
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I like not better than drinking. Have you tried the other side?
And in a tweet that rikryah put up in the last post, a little truth about drinking.
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
When this over, all of the people who are involved in the conspiracy should be hung from a gallows. They don’t deserve to live a day past their convictions for conspiracy against the United States.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: This is a set up to allow the various Rudys Giuliani to go on The Drunk Crazy Aunt Who Was a One Term Municipal Judge Conspiracy Power Hour tonight and the Sunday gasbag shows tomorrow and go after Mueller, his team, the FBI, the DOJ, and the intel community.
Another Scott
@debbie: Cheney taught Republicans that if you leak something to the FTFNYT then you can go on the Sunday shows (which just happens to be on tomorrow – how about that) and say “The New York Times is reporting …” and get serious headnodding and knowing glances from all of the important TV and press people. And thus “win the cycle” at least until Monday afternoon.
That won’t happen if they just leak things to Breitbart or Drudge (is Drudge still around??).
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
This is from the list of possible questions that Mueller wants Trump to answer
OT.. I have a feeling that Trump will skip the G-7 and send Pence.
Steve in the ATL
@RobertDSC-Mac Mini: correct “hung” to “hanged” and almost all of the B-J pedants will agree with you!
So I speculate. I’m totally not one of the pedants.
debbie
@Steve in the ATL:
If Trump didn’t intend to collude or commit treasonous acts, but did, he should still be held just as accountable as if he had intended to. IACNAL, but it seems like all his legal team does is toss out mitigating circumstances for when Trump’s sentenced.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: I drink a lot of water. If I go out for dinner I tend to drink either unsweetened iced tea or diet coke.
Steve in the ATL
@debbie: as noted by other posters, their strategy is likely to (1) inflame their bleating base and its supporting media empire, and (2) give something, anything for the massively corrupt republican majority on the Supreme Court to hang its hat on when absolving trump and crew of any legal jeopardy.
ETA: and I agree with what RobertDSC types in his mini Mac: they all need to hang for their crimes.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: The problem with that is that neither Kennedy nor Roberts is willing to be thought poorly of by legal scholars and historians. It is why Roberts will side with RBG, Kagan, Sotomayor, and Breyer at times. He’s a movement conservative jurist, but he also has an eye on his and the court’s legitimacy. Kennedy is, of course, a weathervane with specific hangups. Alito, Thomas, and now Gorsuch do not care about any precedents, niceties, traditions, norms, and/or ethics. Or the actual Constitution for that matter.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: When I first moved to GA, I ordered ice tea and it was sickly sweet. yuck. Another time I asked for unsweetened tea, and the waitress asked if I was a Yankee.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
“Remember to hydrate.”
germy
@Adam L Silverman:
Still not as costly as all those golf trips to Fla.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
I agree they are the most likely ones to switch. I don’t know if they will though.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: That’s not why I don’t drink. I don’t have a problem with it. My family does have a hereditary issue with liver disease and no history of alcohol abuse or alcoholism. As a result I don’t imbibe.
germy
@Adam L Silverman:
“Up From Liberalism!”
khead
@RobertDSC-Mac Mini:
Good luck with that. We couldn’t even muster the will to hang Robert E. Lee.
Gelfling 545
I just read that one of the Assistant Prosecutors for Watergate said that the last person to advance this argument was George III.
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman: Roberts has long since lost the battle to have his court judged favorably by history. One example is that shit he completely made up about the “equal dignity of the states” to decide a case contrary to all law and precedence. Fuck that guy.
Luthe
Where were these legal eagles when Whitewater was being investigated? Because I distinctly remember a sitting president being interviewed by a special council while also running the government…
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: You are not the only one to speculate that. The argument I heard was he’ll claim he’s too busy preparing for the summit, but the reality is he doesn’t want to have to face the wrath of the other G-7 leaders. He’s a coward and won’t face the people he just tried and failed to bully.
trollhattan
@JPL:
A California buddy took a job in North Carolina where certain folks would tell him, “You’re just a big ol’ sack of sugar.” Which I translate as a variation of Bless your heart.
debbie
@Another Scott:
I think Trump is only interested in keeping his base riled up. He doesn’t care what anyone else thinks.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: A wise choice.
father pusbucket
@SiubhanDuinne: +1. Beat me to it. Glorious phrase.
debbie
@JPL:
Have you gotten used to the sweetness or have you stopped ordering iced tea?
jharp
@Adam L Silverman:
If I had an iced tea for lunch I would be up all night.
I quit that shit years ago.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Steve in the ATL: They are dead to me too as it happens
Adam L Silverman
@trollhattan: Always.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
@jl: That was beautiful. Have any of his lawyers actually done this before?
Adam L Silverman
@Gelfling 545: Ackerman or Wine-Banks?
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: I am well aware. But he still thinks he can get on the right side of it if he makes a few pretenses to moderation.
khead
@Adam L Silverman:
I suspect Roberts will eventually be “thought poorly of by legal scholars and historians” even if we don’t live to see it.
Edit – Steve in the ATL beat me to it.
JPL
@debbie: Now with the influx of yanks, most places offer both. (at least the places I go) If I’m north of here up in the mountains, I order water.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Steve in the ATL:
Don’t get me started. I find myself fantasizing about some Pelican Brief solutions all too often these days.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Baud: Misspelled words hurt me. I mean, how hard is it to get a three letter word right?
Citizen Alan
@JPL:
It’s not even that. The fuckers want a white supremacist dictatorship. To me, the saddest single moment of the 2016 election is when I think about Obama’s speech and that brilliant soaring line about how Americans “don’t look to be ruled.” And come to find out, nearly half of them do.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: What did you think about the question about Flynn’s communication with Pence about Kislyak? He probably knows the answer, but I don’t .
Corner Stone
@JPL:
Well, are ya?
Adam L Silverman
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): It’s as easy as “won, too, three”!
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack (phone):
How do you think they got to Scalia? Like he really died alone in his bed in West Texas.
Gelfling 545
@Adam L Silverman: Ackerman. Called the letter flim-flam.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Werd.
Adam L Silverman
@Citizen Alan: And yet when I wrote about that here in October 2016 everyone told me I was wrong in the comments…
https://balloon-juice.com/2016/10/08/the-herrenvolk-component/
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks.
I didn’t have an issue with drinking, but it did seem that if I kept going about 20 yrs ago it might develop into one. So I just stopped. Easy peasy. I find that for me it didn’t really add anything to life. Probably why it was so easy to just stop. I’ve seen too many drunks, in the navy and out to want to risk getting there.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Luthe:
And not spending half his day on “executive time” and Twitter.
Brachiator
This is absurd on its face, even if there is a conventional wisdom among some people that puts a president on the same level as Kings.
Also, the idea that a president is too busy to answer questions is quickly contradicted by a president that has plenty of time for golf.
If I thought that any of this bullshit was serious, I would think that these dopes hurt themselves by implying a distinction between the office of the president and the man who holds the office. The dignity of the office is not impaired by throwing Trump’s ass in jail.
Sm*t Cl*de
Hilarious that Don Trump Jnr is such a useless skinbag that he needs his daddy to write his criminal-activity-hiding letters for him. Evidently he is happy to be his daddy’s fuckpuppet.
Also hilarious that Don Trump knows that his son and namesake is such a useless skinbag.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: The Special Counsel surely has the letter from Elijah Cumings warning the VP about Flynn during the transition. He also has all the other openly reported information indicating that the VP was also informed by others that there were problems with Flynn. And he is most certainly aware that the VP was Manafort’s choice to be VP, not the President’s. And that Manafort manipulated the President into first picking and then sticking with Pence. I expect that he knows all the background to all of this by now. As in why the VP ignored the warnings. And why Manafort wanted Pence to be VP. The Vice President is not a smart man. But he is an exceedingly ambitious one. And he believes that it is not ambition, rather that he has been touched by the hand of the Lord and chosen to fulfill a special destiny. Dumb with delusions of Deity approved grandeur do not normally lead one to stay out of trouble.
sukabi
If he was sooooo busy he wouldn’t have time for his incessant tweeting and golfing….or his several hours of ‘executive time’ when he’s busy watching fox news…his lawyers lie as much as he does…fortunately they are also as competent as their boss.
Adding…are we going to get the nym and email boxes to remember info or is it going to be a constant source of irritation?
JPL
@trollhattan: Not me, but maybe Steve in ATL. At least that would be my guess.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Adam L Silverman:
You should have an apostrophe in there somewhere.
JDM
@Luthe:
Back when the rightwing pushed for a legal ruling that a president (named Bill Clinton) could be sued and had to testify while president, I thought that was going to bite them in the ass. It has. Thank goodness for nanotechnology, because without it we could never build a violin tiny enough to accompany their tears.
JMG
@Adam L Silverman: I am not so sure the conservative justices will uphold a claim the President is above the law. This basically is saying the President is above the Court, too. If they rule for this, a future President less to their liking could tell the Court to go to hell and maybe make it stick.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Brachiator:
Enhanced, more like.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Adam L Silverman: @Baud: You are hilarious.
Baud
@Brachiator: The dignity of prisons, however, would be irreparably harmed.
danielx
Only the best people redux.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: No worries. I also have the strange wiring where if I drink while I’m eating the food and the booze tastes funny. With only a couple of exceptions. Certain beers. Like a real German pils or Sierra Nevada. And sangria with Cuban or other Spanish and LatinX cuisines. But beer with wings or burgers or bbq or steaks or fish or whatever just tastes wrong. I don’t like wine. It all tastes like musty raisins to me. So I don’t waste my money on it. Every so often I get a yen for a martini and will have one if I’m out with friends. Or a proper single malt. But if I have more than one drink every three to six months, I’m on a bender!
sukabi
@Luthe: yeah but Clinton was an excellent multitasker. Drumpf is lucky he stays focused enough to get thru one of his photo ops…and he’s flubbed several of them.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator:
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@sukabi: He needs the parental controls set so he has less screen time.
Adam L Silverman
@Steeplejack (phone): See I can’t even do a purposeful error without making a typo!
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
So if Trump wins this argument, can Balloon Juice declare it’s independence?
Corner Stone
@JMG:
Let’s say they do not rule a president is above the law. Then what? They are a bunch of (((globalists))) elites, looking to take down the president in a rigged system, that is just so rigged, believe me. I have ordered the Justice Eagles of the Supreme Court to hearby remove all the traitors to this great nation who voted against King…Donald J. Trump.
Gelfling 545
@Brachiator: If the office ever was sacred it has been desecrated since January 2017.
JDM
They should also change the inaccurate “the president holds a special position in the government and is busy running the country, making it difficult for him to prepare and sit for an interview” to the accurate “the president is a lying lazy moron, making it difficult for him to prepare and sit for an interview”.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
This has been clear, or should have been clear, about Trump from the very beginning. But I think that there are some people who accept that Trump is racist, but think that this just means that he personally dislikes non-white people. However, these folks cannot accept that Trump would implement deeply racist policies, apart from, maybe, voting rights.
But Trump has been a master in connecting his personal resentments to the racist resentment of his supporters.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you. I forgot about that.
Frankensteinbeck
Everyone who thinks this is about setting a narrative, have you watched FOX News? That ship sailed so long ago it fell off the edge of the flat Earth they live on. It’s an alternate universe over there where Mueller is a Democratic political hack and Hillary is the one who’s about to get indicted. It’s irrelevant if any individual piece of shit thrown up by the Trump team is picked up. There’s a giant whirlwind of it already. What’s astonishing is that Trump has been so bad at setting the narrative for the national press beyond FOX and FTFNYT. They hate Democrats and want so badly to jump on the Trump wagon, but he’s so stupid and erratic everything he does turns to shit before a news cycle is up.
Adam L Silverman
@JMG: I don’t think Roberts or Kennedy would go for it. Alito or Gorsuch would. Thomas would either write a separate concurrence that’s really a dissent or just a separate dissent expounding his own theories of what the law should be in the fictional nation-state in which he resides. But Alito and Gorsuch, in fact all the Federalist Society pushed judges, all have one unifying component to their judicial philosophy: the powerful are always right and what they do or want to do is always constitutional. It doesn’t matter if that is governmental power, police power, or corporate power. And the only exceptions are in regard to allowing very specific Christian theology and dogma to override the actual Constitution and over 200 years of legal development, precedents, and rulings.
Citizen Alan
@Adam L Silverman:
I knew all about the white supremacist faction of the GOP. I just didn’t think it could possibly be enough to win (or even get close enough to fudge it in the EC). Just as I knew the majority of white Evangelical Christianity had become a degenerate cult, but I never dreamed it would be as high as 81% of them.
WereBear
Apparently there aren’t enough busses for all the people Trump wants to throw under one.
Brachiator
@Baud:
Baud for president of Balloon Juicistan!
Baud
@Brachiator: As great as that sounds, I’m kind of hoping to be above the law.
Frankensteinbeck
@Adam L Silverman:
Don’t look at me. I’ve been saying for at least nine years that the Republican Party (and I mean its voters even more than the elected officials) views politics as an existential war for the survival of white power. Compromise and politics as usual got America a black president. They will do anything to stop us now – except put forth actual effort. Our enemies are extremists, but thank goodness they’re also cowardly, lazy, and incompetent.
Viva BrisVegas
@JMG:
I thought Andrew Jackson already had.
Steve in the ATL
@JMG:
Maybe, but the executive branch has been itching to do this since John Marshall gave it an atomic wedgie in 1803 in Marbury v. Madison.
Uncle Ebeneezer
In my wildest fantasy, President Harris/Gillibrand, on Day One, announces that they will instruct the DOJ will investigate and prosecute anyone suspected of lying to Congress in official testimony, regardless of whatever level of authority they had. Including Trump, Sessions, all of ’em, Katie.
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
There’s a great article about the degree to which Fox News is an alternate news reality. Sinclair Broadcast Group is adding to it.
Link
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/30/17380096/fox-news-alternate-reality-charts
The Ancient Randonneur
Haberman’s tweet is bullshit.
https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1002990365350219778?s=20
David Corn is a beast on Twitter when it comes to shooting down his fellow reporters.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone:
That’s the Marshal of the Supreme Court and his Eagles of Justice.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: Yep. And unfortunately so.
sukabi
@Sm*t Cl*de: I’m a bit torn on this…on the one hand there probably hasn’t been anything Drumpf has let his kids do on their own EVER….on the other hand Jr. immediately tweeted out a copy of the emails proving the tower meeting was about getting dirt on Hillary– after Hope had assured Drumpf those emails would never see the light of day.
I’m just glad they’re all so fucking stupid. I guess that’s the silver lining.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: Happy to help.
Adam L Silverman
@Frankensteinbeck: And quite often none too bright.
Steeplejack
@Adam L Silverman:
Well played.
Brachiator
@Baud:
If you want to become emperor of Balloon Juicistan you will have to work for it, since that is not an elective office.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: before you are sworn in as president, we have a few questions about your billing records back when you worked at the Rose Law Firm
The Ancient Randonneur
@Frankensteinbeck:
That certainly explains why they control all three branches of the Federal government, a majority of state legislatures and governors offices.
Adam L Silverman
@Steeplejack: Thank you!
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
My favorite was George Dickel Tennessee whiskey. Not a fan of beer or wine.
Corner Stone
@The Ancient Randonneur: they’re also cowardly, lazy, and incompetent…and also really good at getting people to vote for them, over and over?
Steeplejack (tablet)
Goddamn, now there are three autoplay ads on every page.
This tablet has the worst possible setup: desktop version of the site, Chrome, Android. No ad blocker available. I guess I’m going to have to look at changing to Firefox with an ad-blocker extension or just using the Adblock Plus stand-alone browser. Fuck.
oldgold
@Steve in the ATL:
Marbury was primarily an atomic wedgie given to the legislative branch.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: You and I both know that you can find gems in garbage. Of course, you have to look though garbage to find them, so there’s that.
? Martin
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
They can’t do that. Separation of powers dictates that Congress has to request that DOJ do that, not the Executive. However, Speaker Pelosi or Majority Leader Schumer could certainly do that, or their respective Chairs of appropriate committees. And that could happen as soon as January.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Corner Stone: Yes. Underestimating an opponent is always a winning strategy It’s worked wonders for Democrats.
Baud
@The Ancient Randonneur: Our problem is not so much underestimating them but kneecapping ourselves. That’s what needs to change.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Baud:
I thinks it’s both, but yes, kneecapping, i.e. purity ponies are a big part of the problem.
Steve in the ATL
@The Ancient Randonneur: voter suppression, vote-changing Diebold machines, Fox News and its cohorts
Uncle Ebeneezer
@? Martin: Ah, thanks for the info. I want it to happen after pardoning by Trump is no longer even a possibility.
? Martin
Well, they can certainly wait until then…
sukabi
@Steve in the ATL: gerrymandering districts needs to be in there too
Mike in NC
There was a story going around a while back that Trump was reluctant to name his oldest son Don Jr. just because the kid might grow up to be a total loser.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’d put an “almost” in there. Damaged people, those Large Adults
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike in NC: Well, he was right about one thing.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Steve in the ATL: Yep. None of it happened overnight. They just methodically kept working at it.
Brachiator
@The Ancient Randonneur:
Speaking of purity ponies, local tv news story about Bernie Sanders speaking in downtown Los Angeles, part of a swing through southern California. Pretty good sized crowd.
PaulWartenberg
by the way, is the tweeter Southpaw someone here on BJ? I thought I saw that once, but am not sure…
Frankensteinbeck
@The Ancient Randonneur:
One half of the country is fighting an existential war and will cheat however necessary to win. They are insane and desperate. These are the voters, and we live in a Democracy and that matters. All they have to do is vote. Our half of the country isn’t insane and desperate, because they’re not in an existential war. Or at least, they didn’t think they were until now. I see signs that’s changing. I hope it is.
Like in business, you can be an absolute drooling moron and make a mint if you have a monopoly on something people desperately want.
B.B.A.
I expect every last fucking one of these fuckers to walk. Including the ones who’ve already been indicted – a Presidential pardon is absolute and can be granted at any time, including before an investigation even begins.
My only hope is that someday Mueller’s findings are published so the truth can be known.
Kay
@Davis X. Machina:
You’re back! I missed you.
FlyingToaster
@B.B.A.: Remember that a number of the money charges (which are all of them, thus far) can be duped in state courts (mostly NY), where the President* has no pardon.
Mary G
This is an attempt to baffle ’em with bullshit plus justify the legal bills, which must be Yuge. Also there was another gun control march across the Brooklyn Bridge again today and they want to take attention away from that. Not working.
Jean
OT, but this is the only website where I see a message at top of page: “This webpage is using significant energy. Closing it may improve the responsiveness of your Mac.” And yet, I notice nothing different about speed, etc.
Another Scott
@Frankensteinbeck: Watched Fox News? What kind of question is that?!?
;-)
Trump is all about setting the agenda on his terms. Remember that he acted like he was President on Wednesday November 9 and almost completely pushed Obama out of the news from that day forward. That’s why he is on Twitter. That’s why he threatened to move the press out of the White House complex. Of course he’s trying to set the agenda. That’s why he tried to hit the ground running with all his executive orders. Etc., etc.
That whirlwind doesn’t sustain itself on its own – it has to be fed, daily…
Of course, the GOP has been doing this for decades. But it’s much, much worse now. And there’s much more at stake.
Cheers,
Scott.
WereBear
I get exasperated when people don’t acknowledge that the Right Wing has certain advantages, like owning most of the mass media outlets, recruiting greedy scum, metric tons of money, and considerable cheating.
Yes, we have plenty of the deplorables in this country, but it’s not like they have a majority or a moral leg to stand on.
Shell
Gosh, with Lily doing so well and the peeps havIng left the nest, I guess well get less animal posts now…
A Ghost To Most
@Ruckus:
That wise man was Mike Cooley, in “Women without whiskey”.
Joe Falco
Donald Trump of yesteryear
Andrew Jackson: “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.”
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Frankensteinbeck: Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever watched FOX news. I guess I’m in a bubble.
Kay
Ugh. I hate this whole thing. They probably sent it to Mueller so they could leak it to the NYTimes and release it as more propaganda. It serves no other purpose. It wasn’t prepared to persuade Mueller of anything- why would he take their legal advice and analysis?
I loathe these people. They’re so sleazy and dishonest and I’m tired of trying to figure out what they’re up to.
Well, if they do manage to have Trump declared King of the World he’ll get even grosser and greedier so eventually we’ll reach some kind of crisis and none of these crap games they;’re playing will matter.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Corner Stone:
It’s ridiculous on its face.
Kay
More ugh. Only rich people are “successful and smart”. Gross. Anyone who still believes that after watching these two horrible families in action needs their head examined.
JR
@Citizen Alan: As ever was. I mean, George Washington bitched about how little support he was getting from the Tory assholes that represented a broad swath of the US.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
Yup. They’re priming the pump to hold themselves completely above the law, not in a court but in the pages of the NYTimes and on Fox News. Maybe Mueller is ethical. I sure hope so. He’s all we got.
danielx
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
I’m told that you have to have a really strong stomach to watch it if you’re sane.
Raoul
This is directly connected to the “POTUS can shoot anyone on 5th Avenue” clause of the Constitution. It’s in there. I read about it on the Internet.
Chyron HR
@Brachiator:
How odd, the way I heard it blue states are full of neoliberal filth, and Senator B is the champion of Real Americans in the red states.
SiubhanDuinne
@The Ancient Randonneur:
In another stunning news development, water is wet.
Gravenstone
@Mike in NC: He has truly proved to be a chip off the old block(head).
J R in WV
@B.B.A.:
This is not quite so. The portion of the Constitution that defines the power to pardon adds at the end “except in the Case of Impeachment”! So if Don Trump pardons these folks and THEN get impeached (not convicted, that isn’t what it says, perhaps all those pardons will be overturned on day one.
In any case, they can be forced to testify, and any lies going forward will be prosecutable, after impeachment.
I continue to be optimistic, in spite of everything to the contrary…..
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in NC:
Say what you will, but those were some fine instincts.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@danielx: I can’t even watch or listen to clips of Trump on my computer. I snap, “Shut up, shut up, shut up!” and drag the slider until he’s gone.
JGabriel
NYTimes via Adam Silverman @ Top:
Fixed it for you, New York Times.
I’m pretty sure it’s the Attention Deficit Disorder, not the golf (or the laughably insincere assertion of ‘running the country’), that makes it difficult for Trump to prepare and sit for … well, anything.
Steve in the ATL
There are FDIC regs that restrict employment at covered banks for people who have been convicted of certain crimes. One applicant’s background check hit my desk as he had been convicted of a coveted crime, but later pardoned by President Clinton.
Turns out that the presidential pardon did not trump the FDIC regs, which they stated expressly. I was gobsmacked.
Steve in the ATL
Covered crime, not coveted, but both edit and reply functions are nonfunctional at the moment. ***shakes fist at Alain***
Ruckus
@Jean:
I get that with netflix, nothing else.
Wanna bet it’s not normal? I’ve checked the amount of memory used with the activity monitor and it’s not abnormal. mmmmmmmmmm…….
Brachiator
@Kay:
Says Jared Kushner’s father, who is neither poor, nor smart, nor ethical.
JGabriel
NYTimes via Adam Silverman @ Top:
Article I trumps Article II, just as Impeachment trumps Veto.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ve been informed, on this very blog, that water is not wet, but make things it comes in contact with wet.
Jay S
@J R in WV:IANAL especially a Constitutional law one but couldn’t
be read as not allowing a president to pardon away an impeachment? Either their own or someone else’s? That seems a more logical read than restricting that power while impeached.
Ben Cisco
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I’ve not willingly watched nor heard him since well before the election. He disgusts me at the atomic level.
MomSense
@Adam L Silverman:
I usually order unsweetened iced tea when I go out. When I was in Florida I had to make sure to say unsweetened because of the one time the server brought me sweet tea. Holy hell that stuff is awful. I swear it gave me lock jaw.
J R in WV
@Jay S:
Well, in my book, no pardons allowed whenever there’s an impeachment anywhere nearby. Of the King, nor of anyone else.
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: Tea should be hot and strong, I don’t get this iced tea business.
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: Presidential pardon does not void guilt, as I’m sure you know. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
I hope your book is a better read than mine. In other news finally changed the nym on this machine.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@J R in WV: @YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S): Okay that was meant as a reply to J R, not a standalone comment. ETA not to beat a dead thread or anything.
Jinchi
Trump has pretty explicitly made that exact argument.
January 11, 2017:
Jackie
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I’m in a bubble of sorts – I will watch Seth Sheppard, and occasionally Chris Wallace – dependent on what’s going on via the news.
randy khan
The particularly strange thing about that memo is that it’s pretty well understood that you can do something that’s perfectly legal on its own and still commit obstruction or violate bribery laws if you do it with the wrong intent.
Ken
@Raoul:
I must be a sick person, because this makes me imagine the next President starting his inaugural speech by tossing the bloody, brain-smeared baseball bat down and saying “I don’t know about you, but I feel a lot better now. Oh, I pardon myself for that.”
Gozer
“Look, forget the myths the media’s created about the White House–the truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.”
-Deep Throat in All the President’s Men
sukabi
@Ken: too wordy…he’d just say “Pardon me” as he dumps the bloody body on the stage next to the VP and says “Take care of that.”
trnc
@Luthe:
Also
– DT has already said that he would like to be interviewed.
– As it is widely known that he spends a lot of time watching tv and flying to Fla to play golf, 3 hours for an interview doesn’t sound unreasonable
– Trust in the Office of the Presidency is important enough to outweigh any possible distractions
And finally …
-Seriously, guys?
Zinsky
I’m not a lawyer but this memo from Trump’s lawyer is pathetic from a logical standpoint as well. Extremely poor or non-existent reasoning. I think Trump’s goose is cooked, if this is the best defense he can muster.
Matt McIrvin
@JDM: How is it biting them in the ass? Is there going to be any practical consequence whatsoever for Trump? I don’t think so. It’s not as if Trump can be convicted of anything. Mueller can get as many Trump associates indicted and convicted as he wants; Trump will just pardon the few he finds particularly congenial and skate personally.
He’s almost certainly going to be reelected in 2020, so he’s not going to be prosecutable until 2025, and he’s an old man; he could be dead by then anyway. The Democrats are never going to have a two-thirds majority in the Senate, so as long as party lines hold–and with Trump’s job approval rising, I see no prospect of that reversing–removing him through impeachment is out as well.
The Other Chuck
@Matt McIrvin:
Even most Republicans don’t think that. Christ, you need to chill out.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Matt McIrvin: show your work, please.
Another Scott
@trnc: Dead thread, but …
Donnie also said that he wanted to release his income tax returns but couldn’t because he was being audited. Also too.
Cheers,
Scott.
trnc
@Another Scott: Not saying I believe him, just saying that he appeared to believe it wouldn’t be a distraction or waste of time when he said it.