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But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

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No one could have predicted…

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

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You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Agonize - Organize / Monday Morning Open Thread: The Work Goes On

Monday Morning Open Thread: The Work Goes On

by Anne Laurie|  June 18, 20184:51 am| 92 Comments

This post is in: Don't Agonize - Organize, gun safety, I'm With Her, Immigration, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

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You didn't think your $7.20 would be much. Some of you gave $72 you barely had. In just two days, you guys donated over $1,000,000 to the @ACLU. Over 20,000 of you donated. You. Did. That. I am so grateful, so happy, so humbled and hopeful to live amongst you wonderful beings.

— christine teigen (@chrissyteigen) June 16, 2018

From the Washington Post, “Students begin tour to address gun violence, uniting suburban and urban survivors in Chicago”:

CHICAGO — The nation’s contentious debate about guns came here this weekend, to a small, nondescript South Side park in a city where violence is rampant and the homicide count is escalating. Survivors of a suburban school mass shooting in Florida joined with survivors of an ongoing urban shooting epidemic in an effort to unite the nation’s youth ahead of the upcoming midterm elections.

But instead of the walkouts and political speeches and boisterous rallies like one Friday night at a nearby church — which included music stars such as Chance the Rapper and Jennifer Hudson — on Saturday the students got down to work. In an understated effort in the struggling Auburn Gresham neighborhood, about 20 teenagers with the March for Our Lives movement began a 20-state summer bus tour with a drive to register young voters and encourage them to go to the polls.

The students and recent graduates of Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, the site of a mass shooting in February that left 17 people dead and created a renewed effort to battle gun violence, said they don’t want a repeal of the Second Amendment or to banish guns. Instead, they want to galvanize the youth vote to make their peers understand how they can play an important role in getting more sensible gun reform laws on the books.

“The only horse we have in this race is living until tomorrow,” said Cameron Kasky, 17.

Volunteers maintained a registration kiosk as a DJ played music and local residents could pick up free fried chicken and ice cream. Partnering with teenagers from Chicago anti-violence groups, packs of young people canvassed surrounding blocks and rang doorbells. The Parkland and Chicago students, some of whom met during a Florida visit in March, walked leisurely as they talked and laughed with a familiarity that obscured the troubling circumstances that brought them together…

FLASHBACK: “I don’t want to rip families apart. I don’t want to send parents away from children.” — @HillaryClinton stands up for immigrant children and predicts how evil Trump’s immigration policy would be. pic.twitter.com/LhnRaYqljL

— Kaivan Shroff (@KaivanShroff) June 16, 2018

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Reader Interactions

92Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 5:56 am

    “an idea that would rip our country apart.”

    What’s not to like?

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 6:00 am

    Mexicans jumping in jubilation on Sunday shook the ground hard enough to set off earthquake detectors after their team scored a surprise victory over World Cup defending champions Germany.

    The Institute of Geological and Atmospheric Investigations said highly sensitive earthquake sensors registered tremors at two sites in Mexico City, seven seconds after the game’s 35th minute, when star player Hirving Lozano scored. It called the tremors an “artificial” quake.

    After all they have been thru during our “war on drugs”, they deserve this.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    June 18, 2018 at 6:06 am

    FLASHBACK: “I don’t want to rip families apart. I don’t want to send parents away from children.” — @HillaryClinton stands up for immigrant children and predicts how evil Trump’s immigration policy would be.

    Fake news! I have it on good authority that she only campaigned on identity politics, moar war, and the fact that it’s her turn.

  4. 4.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 6:16 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  5. 5.

    aimai

    June 18, 2018 at 6:16 am

    I am really annoyed that there is no one out there, like Obama’s photographer is for him, to throw shade on the Trump phenomenon by simply putting up HRCs policy proposals and speeches against Trump’s actions. Like a daily diary of the dispossessed presidency of HRC.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    June 18, 2018 at 6:20 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

    @aimai: I agree. Random people on Twitter will have to do.

  7. 7.

    WereBear

    June 18, 2018 at 6:37 am

    Was the Trump immigation policy clear that they were going to do this? It sounds like it from the clip, and yet I don’t remember that. I know there aren’t enough laws about this.

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 6:43 am

    Moral bankruptcy:

    The first legal challenge to the Trump administration’s crusade for Medicaid work requirements came before a federal judge in Washington on Friday, where attorneys representing 16 low-income Kentuckians argued they would be unlawfully stripped of Medicaid coverage should the court allow the state’s waiver to take effect in July. The groups challenging the policy said the work requirements violate Congress’ original intent for the Medicaid program and instead are a mere cover for cutting tens of thousands of people from the rolls.

    In response, attorneys representing the Trump administration and Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin (R) warned U.S. District Judge James Boasberg of dire consequences should he rule against their new Medicaid rules.

    Matthew Kuhn, arguing on behalf of Kentucky, pointed to Bevin’s executive order to terminate the state’s Medicaid expansion entirely, stripping health coverage from more than 400,000 people, if the court strikes down any piece of the waiver.

    Kuhn claimed that “serious budget problems” mean that “the governor will be forced to withdraw from expanded Medicaid” if he’s not allowed to impose the rules, which are expected to save the state money by kicking at least 95,000 people off of Medicaid. “We are making sure Medicaid remains sustainable,” he said.

    Boasberg appeared skeptical of this line of argument, noting that under the Affordable Care Act, the federal government currently reimburses states for about 95 percent of the cost of the Medicaid expansion if they opt into the program.

    “Why are you attacking the expansion population, when the rate of reimbursement is much higher there than in traditional Medicaid?” he asked.

    “We consider traditional Medicaid sacred,” Davis replied. He added that the lawsuit should be thrown out entirely because of the state’s threat to un-expand, saying that it made the plaintiff’s claim of imminent injury not “redressable” since they will lose their Medicaid coverage no matter how the court comes down.

    Sacred? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…. gasp…. wheeze….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….

    Stopit! Yer killing me!

  9. 9.

    Baud

    June 18, 2018 at 6:57 am

    @WereBear: I think the clip refers to deporting parents but allowing their young citizen children to stay.

  10. 10.

    EZSmirkzz

    June 18, 2018 at 7:09 am

    Well we’ll just have to wait and see
    If the President has a shred of humanity,
    all he really has to do,
    Is call off his dogs!

  11. 11.

    MagdaInBlack

    June 18, 2018 at 7:16 am

    Theres a site called “Sleeping Giants” that has been posting info on the contractors involved with ICE.
    I don’t know much about them and I’m on way out door for hour commute (ty chicago traffic)
    but I know you all will dig further.
    Have a peacefull day ?

  12. 12.

    Immanentize

    June 18, 2018 at 7:18 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I don’t get the Governor’s threat at all. The Kentucky legislature voted for expansion – I don’t see how the Governor alone can get rid of it. And, so what if he did? Either work requirements are legal or they are not. Holding the whole system hostage should not change the judge’s calculus on that point.

  13. 13.

    debbie

    June 18, 2018 at 7:23 am

    @Immanentize:

    I don’t see how the Governor alone can get rid of it.

    If Trump can be autocratic, why not Bevins? That’s how he sees it.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 7:26 am

    @Immanentize:

    Holding the whole system hostage should not change the judge’s calculus on that point.

    And using it as a legal argument is indicative of not just the weakness of their position but the profound stupidity that is theirs.

  15. 15.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 7:29 am

    @Immanentize:
    He never wanted Medicaid- the Demon.?

  16. 16.

    Jager

    June 18, 2018 at 7:30 am

    A guy I worked for turned 96 last week, WWII Navy landing craft skipper, landed Marines on the beach at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. He got his MBA at Harvard on the GI Bill after the war. A bit of an asshole, but smart and he brooked no bullshit from anyone or anybody. He has all the prejudices of the ‘Greatest Generation” . One of his daughters is married to a Jewish guy, he says, “He’s a Jew, but he’s smart and I like him” I called him to wish him a happy birthday, he was in his office, he still goes everyday. This old New York business guy, son of Italian immigrants, said this about trump, “He’s nothing but another cheap ass, phony, bullshitter from the Bronx, I’ve met a million of them over the years.”

  17. 17.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 7:31 am

    Thanks for all the helpful information yesterday from BJ. You guys rock ??

  18. 18.

    Dorothy Winsor

    June 18, 2018 at 7:33 am

    Twitter tells me John Oliver took on Trump’s child kidnapping policy last night. I haven’t seen it on line yet, but I’m looking forward to watching.

    I met Stinger for dinner yesterday. We talked about writing and politics. Also some of you. :-)

    ETA: Raw Story has the Oliver clip.

  19. 19.

    Betty Cracker

    June 18, 2018 at 7:37 am

    Still so impressed with the Parkland students, especially the way they’ve used their fame to highlight stories that usually don’t get told (i.e., gun violence that affects non-white kids), their unrelenting focus on voter registration, etc.

  20. 20.

    WereBear

    June 18, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @Baud: ah, thanks.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 7:43 am

    @MagdaInBlack: Now reading this at Mother Jones:

    Shortly after the November election, a Twitter account called Sleeping Giants (@slpng_giants) began using the social media platform to chisel away at the ad revenue of extreme right-wing news site Breitbart. The account, which now has more than 73,000 followers, has a simple strategy: Tweet at companies who unknowingly have ads on Breitbart and teach them how to blacklist the site from their ad distribution algorithm. Sleeping Giants is the work of an anonymous group in the digital marketing industry, and their strategy seems to be working: To date, more than 1500 companies have joined the movement, including big names like Visa, Sephora, and Audi.

  22. 22.

    WereBear

    June 18, 2018 at 7:44 am

    @Betty Cracker: They are savvy people, and I hear they are accepting advice and mentoring from other orgs. Best of all worlds.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 7:46 am

    CBS Morning Show has been covering the border extensively so far. Gayle King interviewed a border patrol agent, which I had to mute because he was spewing bullshit. The interview with the pediatric doctor was excellent, and she mentioned long term damage to children this policy is creating. The doctor also mentioned the joy she saw in a picture that Ivanka had with her children, and the lack of joy in the eyes of the children who were separated from there parents. Gayle asked about human trafficking and the doctor said if a child is screaming for her mother, we can assume that the person was her mother.

  24. 24.

    Bobby Thomson

    June 18, 2018 at 7:46 am

    @Baud: well, you see, it’s identity politics to promise not to commit crimes against humanity against brown people.

    That’s really how those people think.

  25. 25.

    Bobby Thomson

    June 18, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @aimai: that’s because she actually cares about those policies and knows taking a higher profile would cause idiots to dig in.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 7:56 am

    This story is horrifying

    A sheriff’s deputy in Texas is accused of sexually assaulting a 4-year-old girl and threatening to deport her undocumented mother if she reported the crime, authorities said.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/06/18/deputy-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-girl-4-threatening-to-have-mother-deported-if-she-spoke-up/?utm_term=.2c522c938024

  27. 27.

    EZSmirkzz

    June 18, 2018 at 7:59 am

    Apologies to one and all, I should have wrote human decency instead of humanity, but I was listening to Mountain’s cover of Roll Over Beethoven and my fingers were flying faster than my feet.

  28. 28.

    TS (the original)

    June 18, 2018 at 8:01 am

    @Immanentize: GOP governors don’t have to follow laws – they just make them

    I don’t see how the Governor alone can get rid of it

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 8:23 am

    In a series of tweets, Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen claimed border patrol agents are operating under the rules enacted by previous administrations– that children will taken from their parents who are seeking asylum if the child is in danger, has no immediate family or if a parent has been arrested.

    “We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period,” she tweeted.

    However we do have a policy of arresting anyone and everyone who comes to the southern border of the United States seeking asylum. Therefor we are not separating children from their parents, we are separating parents from their children. Get your facts straight Libtards!!!

  30. 30.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 8:32 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yup! They are closing legal points of entry in order to create a situation where all enter illegally.

  31. 31.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 8:35 am

    The president must have been a bad boy, because someone took control of his phone. tsk,tsk,tsk

  32. 32.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “I wouldn’t put it quite that way,” Kelly said. “The children will be taken care of — put into foster care or whatever. But the big point is they elected to come illegally into the United States and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long.”

    A technique.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @Mikel_Jollett
    6m6 minutes ago
    More
    This morning, a smiling white man looked into a camera and said, “They’re not cages. They simply built walls out of chain-link fences.”

  34. 34.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 8:50 am

    @JPL:

    You can’t think that this is the only one.

    Once again….

    WHERE.ARE.THE.GIRLS,???

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 8:52 am

    @JPL:

    They are closing legal points of entry in order to create a situation where all enter illegally.

    say it again for the bleacher seats!

  36. 36.

    But her emails!!!

    June 18, 2018 at 8:53 am

    @Kay:

    I’m not stabbing you to death with a knife, I’m just patting you on the back with a piece of sharpened metal attached to a handle.

  37. 37.

    HAL

    June 18, 2018 at 8:54 am

    I’m glad Laura Bush spoke out in her OP ed, but am I being peppermint petty in being irratated she did not name Trump? There’s just way too much timidity on the Republican side over this party and it would be great if prominent Republicans started calling trump out by name.

  38. 38.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 8:54 am

    @Kay:

    this is who they are.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 8:55 am

    Steve Inskeep
    ‏@NPRinskeep
    2h2 hours ago
    More Steve Inskeep Retweeted Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen
    Asked on @MorningEdition just now about this statement that there is no policy of separation, GOP Rep. Will Hurd laughed.

    Congress should have enforced their own rules when all of these people lied at the hearings they held- that was the opportunity to hammer them on lying, as a deterrent.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 8:57 am

    The WaPo let HOTUS put out that bullshyt statement with lies, knowing full well that they had the Laura Bush Op-Ed, which,
    1. Would go immediately to the top of the discussion list
    2. Threw HOTUS’ statement into the dustbin of irrelevance.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 8:58 am

    @But her emails!!!:

    @kylegriffin1
    “”I’m going to take your child to get bathed.” That’s one we see again and again. … The child goes off, and in a half an hour, twenty minutes, the parent inquires, “Where is my five-year-old?” … And they say, “You won’t be seeing your child again.””

    General Kelly’s technique. Which he “hopes” he doesn’t have to use very long.

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 8:59 am

    @Kay:

    yeah, because separating children from their parents is SOOO funny. It’s a phucking laugh riot.

  43. 43.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 9:03 am

    @rikyrah:

    I think Bush makes Melania look bad, too. It’s funny- Melania’s statement about “heart” is so rote and boilerplate DC she sounds like “generic politician”. She hopes for bipartisan legislation in the coming months. There’s no heart in it at all.

    Trump’s a coward. He won’t go after Laura Bush- not that she gives a shit if he does.

  44. 44.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 9:03 am

    @rikyrah: Yup. Melanie’s statement got lost in the shuffle, because Laura compared it to Japanese internment. ‘

    He didn’t tweet this

    Why don’t the Democrats give us the votes to fix the world’s worst immigration laws? Where is the outcry for the killings and crime being caused by gangs and thugs, including MS-13, coming into our country illegally?

    His tweets are run on sentences.

  45. 45.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 9:05 am

    @Kay: I think she is trying to bait him, and John Kelly said don’t. It’s time for Michelle to pile on, and drive him over the ledge.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 9:08 am

    @rikyrah:

    The Trump Administration first sent out the manly men to defend getting tough on 5 year olds, then they sent out the women to recite mush about how they feel bad about it. Later, Smoky Eye will use the fact that she’s “a mom” to deflect criticism and avoid accountability for this policy. Excuse me, “technique”. This technique.

  47. 47.

    chopper

    June 18, 2018 at 9:10 am

    @Baud:

    i remember hearing that if she were elected we’d be in iran “in two seconds” so we def dodged that bullet amirite?

  48. 48.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 9:14 am

    @chopper:

    And we’re supposed to be grateful that Trump didn’t bomb North Korea. Of course, Trump is the one who threatened to bomb North Korea, but him withdrawing his threat means I have to thank him or I am actively in favor of bombing North Korea. They’re idiots. They screw up the simplest concepts.

  49. 49.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 9:17 am

    Trump sees immigrant children as bargaining chips in political fight
    06/18/18 08:40 AM
    By Steve Benen

    …………………..

    Indeed, the New York Times had an excellent piece over the weekend documenting how the president and his team decided to pull the trigger in recent months.

    [F]or George W. Bush and Barack Obama, the idea of crying children torn from their parents’ arms was simply too inhumane – and too politically perilous – to embrace as policy, and Mr. Trump, though he had made an immigration crackdown one of the central issues of his campaign, succumbed to the same reality, publicly dropping the idea after [White House Chief of Staff John Kelly’s comments in March] touched off a swift backlash.

    But advocates inside the administration, most prominently Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, never gave up on the idea. Last month, facing a sharp uptick in illegal border crossings, Mr. Trump ordered a new effort to criminally prosecute anyone who crossed the border unlawfully – with few exceptions for parents traveling with their minor children.

    We know when the president did this, we know why, and we know how. We even know who was helping drive the decision behind the scenes. Trump may be desperate to shift the blame for his policy to those who have nothing to do with it, but top members of his team have openly acknowledged that this was, and is, the White House’s idea.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 9:21 am

    @JPL:

    @Kay: I think she is trying to bait him, and John Kelly said don’t. It’s time for Michelle to pile on, and drive him over the ledge.

    ICAM.

    Come on, Forever FLOTUS.

  51. 51.

    wuzzat

    June 18, 2018 at 9:28 am

    I’ve been off the grid, but just in case it you guys missed it, Sessions’ church leadership called him out.

  52. 52.

    chopper

    June 18, 2018 at 9:28 am

    @JPL:

    schumer put together and got passed a comprehensive immigration bill in 2013. ZEGS tabled it. but of course it’s the dems’ fault for our immigration laws.

    ETA: not ryan, the original orangeman.

  53. 53.

    jackmac

    June 18, 2018 at 9:31 am

    I had the opportunity to hear some of the Parkland, Fla. kids during their stop in Naperville, Ill. last Saturday. They were joined by inner city Chicago teens and activists from nearby suburbs to talk about gun violence — whether school shootings or gun carnage on Chicago’s South Side. They all give me hope.

    The money quote from the visit:

    “A lot of people have said we are this liberal army coming to disarm the law-abiding citizens and that is ridiculous, a flat-out lie,” said Matt Deitsch, a 20-year-old Stoneman Douglas graduate. “We are trying to prevent gun violence,” he said. “It has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. It has everything to do with protecting American citizens, protecting our children so we don’t have to worry or fear for our lives anymore.”

  54. 54.

    Kay

    June 18, 2018 at 9:37 am

    DOOCY: Some refer to these [child detention facilities] as cages. I’m from a farm community, I see the chain-link fences, it’s more like a security pen to me.

    Add “I’m from a farm community” to the list of justifications/excuses. They’re livestock. Of course. If you were from a farm community you would know that.

  55. 55.

    zhena gogolia

    June 18, 2018 at 9:38 am

    @wuzzat:

    Great statement. It will be ignored by the Christian-bashers around here.

  56. 56.

    zhena gogolia

    June 18, 2018 at 9:39 am

    @Kay:

    HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT???????

  57. 57.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    June 18, 2018 at 9:39 am

    Colbert had Sessions going on about this separation is bibically justified. Like Trump, Sessions another smirky punk ass twat whose full of himself and needs to be punched in the face. I was clear by Sessions expression and body language Sessions knew he was being evil.

  58. 58.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 9:46 am

    @Kay: Brian Stelter
    No, these aren’t cages, @SteveDoocy says. The authorities simply “built walls out of chain-link fences.” Yes, that’s a real quote from Fox just now.

    This might be a new show on the hgtv. How to decorate with chain-link.

  59. 59.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 9:48 am

    @Kay:

    Add “I’m from a farm community” to the list of justifications/excuses. They’re livestock. Of course. If you were from a farm community you would know that.

    That they are having to be creative is instructive. Cages penetrate through the bullshyt.
    CAGES clarifies things.

    I said before, the simplicity of the obvious EVIL of all of this, punches through the bullshyt.

  60. 60.

    The Other Chuck

    June 18, 2018 at 9:49 am

    Impeachment and imprisonment here is no longer enough. I now want to see Trump and GOP leaders handed over to the Hague.

  61. 61.

    The Other Chuck

    June 18, 2018 at 9:51 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Great statement. It will be ignored by the Christian-bashers around here.

    Maybe when Christian theocracies stop being so fucking fascist, we’ll cut Christianity a break.

  62. 62.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 9:51 am

    @Kay:

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

    But, farms deal with ANIMALS, muthaphucka.
    THESE.ARE.CHILDREN.

  63. 63.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 9:52 am

    @The Other Chuck:

    I now want to see Trump and GOP leaders handed over to the Hague.

    I HEAR YOU.

  64. 64.

    zhena gogolia

    June 18, 2018 at 9:52 am

    @The Other Chuck:

    Right on cue.

  65. 65.

    germy

    June 18, 2018 at 9:58 am

    As I have said many, many, times before, America is in its Brezhnev Years. Just as the Soviet Union limped on once belief in Marxism and Soviet ideology had faded before it collapsed, the United States still maintains the facade of democracy, even though a sizable number of Americans (perhaps a majority) do not really believe in it beyond lip-service. Our president certainly does not believe in it. He adores despots and attacks democratic rulers who dare to criticize him.

    The only way forward that we have is to achieve what Lincoln proclaimed in the Gettysburg Address: a new birth of freedom. For this nation to survive as a democracy we need to make it truly democratic, and not simply aim to restore the status quo ante, since that’s what got us here in the first place. The only way that is going to happen is that those of us who want it put our shoulders to the wheel.

    link

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 9:59 am

    @wuzzat: And all this time I thought he was a Southern Baptist. Love the quoting of Isaiah:

    Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. (Isaiah 10: 1-3 NIV)

  67. 67.

    scav

    June 18, 2018 at 10:01 am

    @JPL: Well then, if decoration minutia are so core and vital to the situation, why then are they complaining about the inhumanity of Manafort’s being in jail? The exterior is that of a Holiday Express!

  68. 68.

    germy

    June 18, 2018 at 10:01 am

    This just in from @davidbegnaud: Border Patrol has reached out to @cbsthismorning and said they are "very uncomfortable" with the use of the word cages. They say it's not inaccurate and added that they may be cages but people are not being treated like animals.
    pic.twitter.com/0zSDqJszgK— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) June 18, 2018

  69. 69.

    Brachiator

    June 18, 2018 at 10:02 am

    Trump doubles down on racism at home by attacking our “ally” Germany and its immigration policies. From the Guardian.

    Donald Trump has launched an unprecedented attack on Angela Merkel’s government, tweeting that “the people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition”.
    While the US president has previously been openly critical of Germany’s export surplus and defence spending, he has refrained from openly criticising the country’s migration policy since taking office in 2017.
    In November 2014, during the US presidential campaign, Trump called Merkel’s decision to keep open the country’s borders to Syrian refugees in the summer of 2015 as “insane”.

    In his latest tweet, Trump also said “crime in Germany is way up”. In May, Germany’s interior ministry recorded the lowest crime levels since 1992.
    “Big mistake made all over Europe in allowing millions of people in who have so strongly and violently changed their culture!” he added.
    In a second tweet, Trump noted:

    We don’t want what is happening with immigration in Europe to happen with us!

    Immigrants are animals, violent criminals, according to Trump. Don’t expect Republicans in Congress to back away from the vicious treatment of immigrant children. They must back their Dear Leader.

  70. 70.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 10:02 am

    Gayle King was at the border reporting for CBS This Morning, and she did an excellent job. Here is one clip
    https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1008695502379077637

    This is the day border patrol agents became snowflakes.

    Thanks to Germy for highlighting it also.

  71. 71.

    japa21

    June 18, 2018 at 10:03 am

    The excuse given when people arrive seeking asylum and they are turned away is that we don’t have the facilities or capacity to handle them. Yet, amazingly, there is enough capacity to hold all those who, because they have been refused at legal points of entry, are so desperate they try other ways.

    This period will go down in infamy the same as the Japanese internment camps and the Trail of Tears. Not quite to the level of slavery. And what do they all have in common? Racism.

  72. 72.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 18, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @Brachiator: Couldn’t be doing Vladimir Vladimirovich’s bidding any better.

  73. 73.

    scav

    June 18, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @germy: Let the galled jade wince.

  74. 74.

    JPL

    June 18, 2018 at 10:05 am

    @Brachiator: Trump is protecting us from becoming like Germany who recorded their lowest crime rate since 1992.

  75. 75.

    japa21

    June 18, 2018 at 10:05 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: That passage is conveniently ignored, as are others in a similar vein, by those who say the government has no responsibility to take care of the poor.

  76. 76.

    But her emails!!!

    June 18, 2018 at 10:06 am

    @Kay:

    Add “I’m from a farm community” to the list of justifications/excuses. They’re livestock. Of course. If you were from a farm community you would know that.

    If that’s how they keep children in farm country, I think farm country needs more child welfare officers.

  77. 77.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 10:10 am

    @The Other Chuck: Religion is neither good nor evil. The people wielding it are good or evil.

    For the record, I’m a lifelong atheist.

  78. 78.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 10:13 am

    @germy:

    LIPS PURSED.

  79. 79.

    scav

    June 18, 2018 at 10:16 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Exactly. Therefore a) merely being christian shouldn’t be used as evidence in itself of being a good — let alone well-intentioned — person and b) the good action of one or a few christians does not exonerate the actions of all those using its cover to do evil. They also don’t get to announce their own universal forgiveness, but that’s a personal beef.

  80. 80.

    EZSmirkzz

    June 18, 2018 at 10:16 am

    @zhena gogolia: Well we’re not getting beaten and thrown in jails like Paul, or hung up on sticks upside down like Peter, so the level of persecution here is rather thin gruel, IMHO. Shining examples like Sessions and Conway just make Christianity a fine canvas for the broad brush of those who choose to use them as examples of the faith.

    Having said that, none of us are above reproach for failing to meet the level of Christian perfection embodied by the Christ, which puts all of us on equal footing with the Apostles, who weren’t shy about their own failings, such as Peter displayed in the Gospels and Acts, and Paul wrote about himself. If this is the cross you have to bear, then it is pretty light indeed.

    My course is to judge no one and forgive everyone.

    I would hope to at least convey to fellow commenter’s here that we are all philosophers of varying degrees, and that American Stoicism, like Christianity, teaches us that our happiness is internal and not dependent on external stimulations. When dealing with politics or policy it’s better not to internalize other peoples points of views or emotional attachments before thinking things through very thoroughly, especially when we disagree with those views or policies, but more importantly emotions. It just isn’t healthy, either mentally or emotionally to become too wrapped up in the things external to our own happiness.

    Finally we should not overlook, IMHO, how so much closer to the Christian ideals many atheists and non-Christians are than many prominent Christians with the mega-phones, some of whom richly deserve being hit on the head with colanders here at BJ, and other blogs and fora. That we get swept up in it is a choice we make.

    I can admonish one and all, as Paul wrote, to widen yourselves out. Whether in matters of faith or politics there are a multitude of streams and creeks that flow into the rivers that flow into the seas. Yours is but one of them.

    Peace

  81. 81.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 18, 2018 at 10:17 am

    @japa21: They are Christians in name only, parading their “faith” for all to praise. I despise those people to the extent that I have Matthew 6: 5-6 on the back of my truck. My very Catholic neighbor doesn’t understand how an atheist has a Bible quote on his truck.

  82. 82.

    zhena gogolia

    June 18, 2018 at 10:23 am

    @EZSmirkzz:

    So you’re directing this homily at me and not at The Other Chuck as well? Interesting.

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    June 18, 2018 at 10:30 am

    @japa21:

    japa21 says:
    June 18, 2018 at 10:03 am
    The excuse given when people arrive seeking asylum and they are turned away is that we don’t have the facilities or capacity to handle them. Yet, amazingly, there is enough capacity to hold all those who, because they have been refused at legal points of entry, are so desperate they try other ways.

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

    AMAZING, HOW THERE’S ENOUGH CAPACITY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN REFUSED AT LEGAL POINTS.

  84. 84.

    ruemara

    June 18, 2018 at 10:35 am

    @zhena gogolia: I say this as a church raised girl. If Christians don’t want to be bashed, they need to stop letting the conservative movement use their faith without pushback.

  85. 85.

    zhena gogolia

    June 18, 2018 at 10:48 am

    @ruemara:

    There is tons of pushback. We don’t get represented on the news. The initial impetus for this exchange was an extremely strong statement by the United Methodist church condemning Sessions.

  86. 86.

    The Other Chuck

    June 18, 2018 at 11:01 am

    Born and raised Catholic, became a born-again in my teens, then atheist and never looked back. I’m well-acquainted with the very core doctrine of “salvation”, and the toxic notion that we are all not just fundamentally flawed, but damned to suffering for all ETERNITY, where billions of years, trillions, lifetimes of universes, are mathematically nothing. Eternity. Damned by an “all-loving” god unless we do his bidding as communicated by the elders of the religion.

    Spare me whatever your denomination’s interpretation is that refutes hell: I’ve seen such moderates, followed them, even volunteered (while an atheist) to do charity work at churches that lived a more enlightened view. I don’t condemn the followers, I don’t condemn every offshoot of the ideology. This Jesus seemed rather a nice character, but the power belongs to the orthodoxy and some variant of its vision of hell. And I’m tired of the fear of damnation still being wielded as an instrument.

    Spare me the downplayed vision of hell too. Denounce the very concept as an affront to God, fight against every last teaching of it (gonna be hard, it’s all over the Bible) and then maybe I can give a few inches. Til then, I’ll continue with my assertion that the core value of most religions is fear, not love.

  87. 87.

    EZSmirkzz

    June 18, 2018 at 11:06 am

    @zhena gogolia: Not particularly to you, just riffing on your comment. I read the Methodist article, and the Atlantic I believe has an article on the Southern Baptist convention voting to cut their ties to the Republican party too. But no, I’m not singling you out. When you point a finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at yourself. I just thought my remarks where general enough for the whole community at BJ.

  88. 88.

    EZSmirkzz

    June 18, 2018 at 11:24 am

    @The Other Chuck: You’re right, Jesus was a nice guy.

    As for hell as the orthodox use it, it doesn’t exist. Maybe a root cellar in Wycliff’s translation. Ecclesiastes states the living know they are dying and the dead know nothing at all, so who am I to believe, the Bible or the orthodox? What’s the point of the resurrection if one doesn’t really die? I’m not an orthodox Christian, nor an Orthodox Christian either. I’m just me. A log snatched from the fire, if you will.

    As for atheists or other non Christians too, and the orthodox Christians for that matter, so long as they are doing things according to the law of love, then they are a law unto themselves. Everything beyond that is above my pay grade.

    All I really know is Christ in the flesh, Christ dead, and Christ resurrected.

  89. 89.

    Shana

    June 18, 2018 at 12:17 pm

    What does HOTUS stand for? A quick Google search didn’t give me an answer.

  90. 90.

    James Powell

    June 18, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    @EZSmirkzz:

    but I was listening to Mountain’s cover of Roll Over Beethoven and my fingers were flying faster than my feet.

    That sent me to archives to listen to that. One of my favorite Chuck Berry covers. Not for the timid. Tried to see Mountain twice when I was in 10th grade. They cancelled both times. But I later saw West, Bruce, & Laing.

  91. 91.

    James Powell

    June 18, 2018 at 2:04 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    There is tons of pushback. We don’t get represented on the news.

    Then I guess we need more pushback.

    This is a discussion for another thread and maybe another day, but there is no question that the established Christian churches, including the Catholics, pretty much ceded the label “Christian” to right-wing fanatics in the late 70s. When the cable shows have “Christian” on, they are always a RW fanatic, never Catholic or Mainline Protestant. They’ve never moved to reclaim it.

    I have no idea why they don’t, but I suspect it’s because their congregations are mostly Republicans who are less vocal, less crass, but also support the RW policies. The Catholic Church has been vocal about abortion & gay marriage & little else. The occasional mannerly words from the Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, or UCC don’t really register.

    Please don’t take this personally.

  92. 92.

    Dan B

    June 18, 2018 at 2:33 pm

    Zheena;

    I wholeheartedly agree that the issue with Christianity is the media vacuum around progressive Christians. I spent 5 years trying to persuade progressive Christian leaders to focus more, much more, effort and resources, on a modern media push. When we explained how this works, backed up by some of the most capable communications professionals and academics, we got every excuse in the book. We even got total lack of understanding from some very intelligent people, “We’ve got to get the facts to them.” I gave up when the rest of the group bailed.

    Wanting better media coverage is not enough. Right wing “christians” were a fading phenomenon until they adopted a media strategy and got long term funding.

    A good campaign could help revive progressive Christian denominations. Indeed it has placed them in the center of moral leadership in many communities.

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