• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

đŸŽ¶ Those boots were made for mockin’ đŸŽ”

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

T R E 4 5 O N

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

No one could have predicted…

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

In my day, never was longer.

Mobile Menu

  • Winnable House Races
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • Balloon Juice 2023 Pet Calendar (coming soon)
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • War in Ukraine
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • 2021-22 Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Good Government Open Thread: Senator Elizabeth Warren, Still A Model for Us All

Good Government Open Thread: Senator Elizabeth Warren, Still A Model for Us All

by Anne Laurie|  August 22, 20188:05 am| 110 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Don't Agonize - Organize, I'm With Her, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

FacebookTweetEmail

feel a little badly for @SenWarren, whose ambitious proposal to tackle public corruption is prob being bumped from the headlines by breaking stories about public corruption

— Catherine Rampell (@crampell) August 21, 2018

Per CNN:

Sen. Elizabeth Warren unveiled a series of new planks Tuesday in her wider plan to stem corporate influence on government and root out corruption in Washington…

Warren’s plan, which would impose a lifetime ban on appointed officials from taking lobbying jobs, is dead on arrival in a Republican-controlled Congress. But it is likely to influence the talking points of other Democrats and, should she run for higher office in 2020, be a staple of her campaign pitch.

In a speech at the National Press Club, Warren called for Congress to “end lobbying as we know it” and not allow “the rich and powerful buy their way into congressional offices.”

“Our national crisis of faith in government boils down to this simple fact: People don’t trust their government to do the right thing because they think government works for the rich, the powerful and the well-connected and not for the American people,” Warren said. “And here’s the kicker: They’re right.”…

Among the more specific new rules Warren is proposing in her Anti-Corruption and Public Integrity Act are a prohibition on elected and senior agency officials owning or trading stock while in office; the livestreaming of audio from federal appellate court proceedings; a requirement to make public a record of all meetings between lobbyists and public officials; and perhaps most dramatically, the creating of a new independent agency to enforce new and existing ethics laws.

The unveiling on Tuesday marked the second major policy proposal from Warren, who is also up for re-election to the Senate this year, in as many weeks.

Her Accountable Capitalism Act, unveiled last week, would require American corporations to have 40% of their directors elected by their own workers, obtain shareholder and board approval for any political spending (which must then be made public), and put the brakes on the pace at which top executives can sell off stock in their own companies…

In nod to Manafort trial, Warren proposes banning all Americans from lobbying for foreign governments. "If foreign governments want to express their views they can use their diplomats."

— Benjy Sarlin (@BenjySarlin) August 21, 2018

Elizabeth Warren proposes banning members of Congress from owning individual stocks as part of sweeping anti-corruption bill https://t.co/EXu95J0xDp

— Joseph Lawler (@josephlawler) August 21, 2018

… “The problem is far bigger than Trump, and the way I see it this loss of faith this broad, and this profound, is more than a problem — it is a crisis, a crisis of faith,” the Massachusetts Democratic senator said at an event in Washington unveiling her legislation.

Warren’s bill would force members of Congress, judges, and high-ranking executive branch officials from owning individual stocks while in office. It would force the president and cabinet members to divest assets that could present conflicts of interest, something President Trump has not done.

The legislation would also go much further and ban members of Congress from lobbying after they left office, tighten existing lobbying restrictions, and require greater disclosure of influence peddling.

Congressional conflicts of interest have been subjected to added scrutiny thanks to the indictment of Rep. Chris Collins, R-N.Y., for insider trading.

In her speech, though, Warren also highlighted aspects of the Trump administration that she argued were egregious, saying that the administration has provided the “most nakedly corrupt leadership this nation has seen in our lifetimes.”

Second Q to Warren at her NPC speech on corruption is about… Ocasio-Cortez not allowing press into one of her town halls. (Warren refocuses the Q to point out that, well, SHE lets press into all of her town halls, as one should.)

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) August 21, 2018

The Democrats’ new argument for why they should be in charge? Corruption. @paulwaldman1 weighs in: https://t.co/HxNFqiCxJB

— Post Opinions (@PostOpinions) August 21, 2018

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Wednesday Morning Open Thread: MOAR POPCORN!
Next Post: Blues and MLR in 2019 »

Reader Interactions

110Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:09 am

    She picked the wrong day to unveil this.

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    August 22, 2018 at 8:17 am

    @Baud: It would be kind of nice if every day going forward was the wrong day … but yes, overwhelmed by a tsunami of bad Trump news.

    Yea Elizabeth. Good suggestions. Fight them on corruption. It’s there, and it needs to stop.

  3. 3.

    Platonailedit

    August 22, 2018 at 8:18 am

    Does her long term proposal come with a one day shelf life? What an utter nonsense from the chase the shiny object media minions.

  4. 4.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 22, 2018 at 8:21 am

    I’m never fond of breathless announcements of proposed legislation that are DOA. I tend to think of that as grandstanding.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:23 am

    I’m concerned she is setting out specific legislative proposals rather than hawking pithy slogans that we can respeat as mantras on Twitter.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:24 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I kind of disagree. Some things take a long time to come to fruition. I can see something like this being enacted after 2020 if we take back the government.

  7. 7.

    Platonailedit

    August 22, 2018 at 8:25 am

    .@playbookplus this morning: "While President Donald Trump turns on the noise machine every day — shouting about what he sees as bias — Mueller is using the criminal-justice system to take out the people closest to the president."

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 22, 2018

  8. 8.

    DanF

    August 22, 2018 at 8:28 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Disagree. It’s a stake in the ground. I stand for this and all good Democrats should stand for this. You can’t change the conversation if you don’t start.

  9. 9.

    satby

    August 22, 2018 at 8:29 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: it’s useful as a cudgel to beat corrupt Republicans up with. This quote:

    “Our national crisis of faith in government boils down to this simple fact: People don’t trust their government to do the right thing because they think government works for the rich, the powerful and the well-connected and not for the American people,” Warren said. “And here’s the kicker: They’re right.”

    will resonate with a lot of voters of every party.

    @Baud: ? here, let’s boil the above down for twitter: “people think the government works for the rich and they’re right. Let’s stop that and make it work for all of us” . That fits.

  10. 10.

    Platonailedit

    August 22, 2018 at 8:31 am

    @Baud: “Government is not your enemy?”

  11. 11.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 22, 2018 at 8:31 am

    I can’t keep up with all the good posts. I don’t know if we’re fired up by yesterday’s Trumpocalypse or taking the chance to post while we can. In either case, it’s good.

  12. 12.

    Another Scott

    August 22, 2018 at 8:33 am

    Good proposals, and I don’t mind the timing. Conversations have to start somewhere, and starting before an election is good. Waiting until “the time is right” assumes that public pressure can rise and be effective quickly – it can’t (usually). Oak trees take years to mature…

    Public service is a sacrifice for millions of people who work for us (teachers, firemen and women, and even the people who do the grunt work in public offices). It shouldn’t be a path to riches for corrupt elected officials.

    (Who doesn’t have a problem with sensible people making millions on their books and speaking tours.)

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  13. 13.

    Platonailedit

    August 22, 2018 at 8:33 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    taking the chance to post while we can

    That one.

  14. 14.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 8:40 am

    Warren was just on Morning Joe before 8:00 and had a fairly long discussion with Mika about this (enhanced by the absence of Joe, who is off today).

  15. 15.

    Platonailedit

    August 22, 2018 at 8:42 am

    Nice job by Steven Breen.

  16. 16.

    Immanentize

    August 22, 2018 at 8:43 am

    @Baud: Ha!
    I think the pithy slogan that goes with her legislation is:
    Corrupt AF

    That’s pithy!

  17. 17.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @Another Scott: I meant yesterday specifically, given all the other news.

  18. 18.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 22, 2018 at 8:48 am

    @Immanentize: I see on a previous thread that Immp is looking at great universities. Good for him. They’re all pretty far from home though. No weekend visits. So…how are you doing, Dad?

  19. 19.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 8:51 am

    @Baud:

    How was Warren supposed to know ahead of time that much shit would hit multiple fans at 4:00 p.m.?

  20. 20.

    A Ghost To Most

    August 22, 2018 at 8:52 am

    Shitler’s first tweet of the day just dropped:

    If anyone is looking for a good lawyer, I would strongly suggest that you don’t retain the services of Michael Cohen!

  21. 21.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:53 am

    @Steeplejack: I’m not blaming her. I’m saying she hit some bad luck.

  22. 22.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 8:53 am

    The latest from the tweeter in chief!

    If anyone is looking for a good lawyer, I would strongly suggest that you don’t retain the services of Michael Cohen!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 22, 2018

  23. 23.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:54 am

    @A Ghost To Most: that actually doesn’t sound like him.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 8:55 am

    @Steeplejack: But what if you’re a corrupt client looking for a corrupt lawyer?

  25. 25.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 8:55 am

    @Baud:

    “She picked the wrong day” an infelicitous choice of words, then.

  26. 26.

    JGabriel

    August 22, 2018 at 8:58 am

    Benjy Sarlin via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    In nod to Manafort trial, Warren proposes banning all Americans from lobbying for foreign governments. “If foreign governments want to express their views they can use their diplomats.”

    I like the idea, and agree with Warren’s observation re: diplomats, but I suspect it would run into first amendment issues. How do we tell US citizens they don’t have the right to express an opinion – or get paid for expressing an opinion – on whether, or not, or how, we should help another country?

  27. 27.

    Platonailedit

    August 22, 2018 at 8:58 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Not to mention his number one client is an adulterous felon.https://t.co/0GZlRSHY2T

    — Tea Pain (@TeaPainUSA) August 22, 2018

  28. 28.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 8:59 am

    @Baud:

    Jesse on Breaking Bad: “You don’t want a criminal lawyer. You want a criminal lawyer.”

  29. 29.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 22, 2018 at 8:59 am

    @A Ghost To Most: @Steeplejack: So I guess a pardon is right out of question. LOL

  30. 30.

    Baud

    August 22, 2018 at 9:01 am

    @Steeplejack: No, it’s a common idiom for these types of situations.

  31. 31.

    JGabriel

    August 22, 2018 at 9:01 am

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Shitler’s first tweet of the day just dropped:

    If anyone is looking for a good lawyer, I would strongly suggest that you don’t retain the services of Michael Cohen!

    Says the man who retained Michael Cohen while telling us he only hires the best people.

  32. 32.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 22, 2018 at 9:01 am

    @JGabriel: Any restriction on money in politics runs into First Amendment issues, thanks to recent court precedents that identify money with political speech. Basically, they’ve decided you don’t have true freedom to do something unless someone who is 1,000 times richer can do it 1,000 times as much.

  33. 33.

    A Ghost To Most

    August 22, 2018 at 9:02 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Everyone on the MJ panel burst out laughing when the tweet dropped. I

  34. 34.

    RobertDSC-Mac Mini

    August 22, 2018 at 9:02 am

    Just a plea to anyone who can talk to Alain:

    the mobile site on my iPhone 6 via Safari is a horrendous resource drain. I lost 10% in battery power in trying to read the threads yesterday while doing nothing else on my phone. It is this site that is draining resources as no other site I visit causes that much battery loss.

    If there is any way to fix that, it would be appreciated.

  35. 35.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 9:05 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Ha! Probably.

    Lanny Davis was on Morning Joe earlier, and, among other things, he made several plaintive pitches for people to donate to Michael Cohen’s defense fund. Womp-womp.

  36. 36.

    Belafon

    August 22, 2018 at 9:08 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: It’s also part of campaigning, and representing who you are and hopefully who your party is. Not doing this would amount to the minority party having no influence over the narrative.

  37. 37.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 9:08 am

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini:

    Supposedly this is a temporary situation while a fix is in the works.

    Is your phone’s screen big enough that you could switch to the desktop version of the site and expand the text to be readable?

  38. 38.

    Elizabelle

    August 22, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @A Ghost To Most: I don’t think Mr. Cohen is going to be a lawyer much longer.

    Andy Borowitz yesterday:

    Michael Cohen pleads guilty after Giuliani offers to be his lawyer

    In an interview on CNN, the former New York City Mayor said that he had offered to give Cohen “the kind of defense that only I am capable of giving.”

  39. 39.

    Belafon

    August 22, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: It’s also part of campaigning, and representing who you are and hopefully who your party is. Not doing this would amount to the minority party having no influence over the narrative.

  40. 40.

    Frankensteinbeck

    August 22, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Like I said yesterday, if Cohen is angling for a pardon he’s a fool. Trump is too big an asshole to understanding protecting other people to protect himself.

  41. 41.

    A Ghost To Most

    August 22, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Michael Cohen pleads guilty after Giuliani offers to be his lawyer

    Ha! Earlier, Mika said of Shitler, “The emperor has no clothes, and his lawyer is a drunk!”

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini, @Steeplejack:

    Also, the “not mobile/​not quite desktop” version seems better behaved on my phone this morning.

  43. 43.

    Bobby Thomson

    August 22, 2018 at 9:23 am

    @JGabriel: that has to be unconstitutional. The trading ban and transparency in lobbying records are good ideas.

  44. 44.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 9:23 am

    @A Ghost To Most: Ha! Earlier, Mika said of Shitler, “The emperor has no clothes, and his lawyer is a drunk!”

    One of the Obama Bros said the same thing yesterday about Rudi and the hooch. Sounds like one of those things “everybody” in Washington knows that’s starting to leak out to the broader world.

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 9:24 am

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini: I think he’s aware there are tons of issues (thread yesterday), but you can always email [email protected] if you want to report something specific. I’ve had a devil of a time with my iPhone lately — haven’t been able to post, and commenting capabilities are sporadic. Shitty timing, since the Angry Circus Peanut administration is teetering on the abyss!

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 9:29 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ah, you heard Pod Save America? I’ve had to do a bit of local travel lately, so I’ve been listening to podcasts and heard that one too. It would not surprise me — the man is impaired by something.

    Did you hear their take on corporate PAC money? It was an earlier episode. As frustrating as the prospect of “unilateral disarmament” is, I think the Obama Bros are right. Of course there’s no comparison of Republicans and Dems on that score, but try telling that to the general public.

  47. 47.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 22, 2018 at 9:35 am

    So for Manafort, a pardon it is.

  48. 48.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 22, 2018 at 9:37 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That’s not real, is it? You’re just speculating? Don’t scare me like that. I had a heart attack way too recently.

  49. 49.

    tobie

    August 22, 2018 at 9:40 am

    I like Sen. Warren’s proposals a lot, but the populist rhetoric, like the bolded part in this quote, is like nails on a blackboard for me:

    In a speech at the National Press Club, Warren called for Congress to “end lobbying as we know it” and not allow “the rich and powerful buy their way into congressional offices.”

    People like Scott Walker, Devin Nunes, Chris Collins, Duncan Hunter, etc. have enriched themselves mightily while in office, and Warren is right that people in office should not be allowed to use their office for insider trading. But it’s not their personal fortunes that got them elected. It’s the money from industry that poured into their campaigns. Warren is too smart for this populist crap. She’s demagoguing this and I find that deeply unattractive.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 9:41 am

    @Betty Cracker: I think it was on that episode that Favreau or Pfeiffer raised the idea that a million Dems donating $100 each can do a lot to counteract PAC money. I think targeted, well-defined campaigns like that could do a lot to engage donors, bringing in people who might have a hundred dollars to spare, who feel disgusted but overwhelmed when they hear about the Koch brothers or Shelly Adelson dropping tens of millions on Republicans without breaking a sweat

  51. 51.

    Yarrow

    August 22, 2018 at 9:43 am

    There were elections yesterday that kind of got lost in the news avalanche.

    Trump-backed Friess loses Wyoming governor's primaryhttps://t.co/RP3FyXg46M— Daniel Strauss (@DanielStrauss4) August 22, 2018

  52. 52.

    Aleta

    August 22, 2018 at 9:44 am

    @Baud: @Steeplejack:

    Random thought: It occurs to me that the active voice of that idiom

    “you picked a fine time to leave me Lucille
    five hungry children
    and a crop in the field”

    is slightly the opposite of when using passive voice accidentally or intentionally implies no responsibility.

  53. 53.

    Leto

    August 22, 2018 at 9:44 am

    @Another Scott:

    Who doesn’t have a problem with sensible people making millions on their books and speaking tours.

    BerniBros. Anyone named Hillary Clinton. I think that covers it.

  54. 54.

    BC in Illinois

    August 22, 2018 at 9:46 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Any restriction on money in politics runs into First Amendment issues, thanks to recent court precedents . . .

    The First Amendment to the U S Constitution, according to recent court pdrcedants:

    Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of money to talk.

  55. 55.

    Bobby Thomson

    August 22, 2018 at 9:55 am

    @tobie: demagoguing is very much on brand.

  56. 56.

    jonas

    August 22, 2018 at 9:57 am

    @Baud:

    She picked the wrong day to unveil this.

    Being Infrastructure Week and all…

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 9:57 am

    @tobie: Maybe she’s talking about the rich and powerful influencing lawmakers — “buy their way into congressional offices” could easily mean fat cats getting face time with congresscritters due to donations. She’s 100% right about that. And honestly, if she’s talking about rich people outright purchasing political offices, like Rick Scott did here in Florida by contributing $72M to his own campaign, I don’t really have a problem with that either. The people who do that are overwhelmingly conservatives.

  58. 58.

    Steeplejack

    August 22, 2018 at 9:57 am

    @Aleta:

    Not quite sure what you’re getting at, because I can’t tell whether “is slightly the opposite of when using passive voice accidentally or intentionally implies no responsibility” is supposed to be one sentence or two that got run together.

  59. 59.

    jonas

    August 22, 2018 at 9:59 am

    @Yarrow: Would that be that billionaire jackass Foster Friess who bankrolled Santorum’s vanity presidential campaign, and suggested women just hold an aspirin between their knees if they didn’t want to get pregnant?

    Good riddance to bad trash.

  60. 60.

    Immanentize

    August 22, 2018 at 9:59 am

    @JGabriel: @Matt McIrvin: @BC in Illinois:
    The first amendment does not apply to non-US citizens, so it is a closer call then you guys suggest. Congress could ban lobbying by foreign governments. No first amendment problem at all. The right to redress is probably US citizen specific. So, once you ban lobbying by foreign governments (or entities?) you side door ban the use of US citizens from lobbying on behalf of those governments. But what about AIPAC, you ask?

  61. 61.

    Kay

    August 22, 2018 at 9:59 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    IMO, corruption is an issue that plays well with Democratic voters. It was the main issue Democrats used in Ohio in ’06. They had the national corruption in the GOP Congress and then state-level corruption. I thought it was much bigger than any anti-Iraq invasion sentiment as far as voters. Getting them out.

    They’re actually using corruption effectively this cycle and it seems to be effective- Sherrod is ahead and so is Cordray.

    It helps if the Democrat is clean and Sherrod Brown and Cordray are squeaky clean.

    I’m really pleased with Warren’s proactiveness on both this and the bill to reform corporate governance. I don’t want to stay on defense all the time. It’s dispiriting to our base. We can’t just “protect”- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, abortion rights, civil rights. That’s a defensive position and we can’t stay there. I personally can’t stay there- it doesn’t keep me engaged.

  62. 62.

    Immanentize

    August 22, 2018 at 10:02 am

    @Kay: Warren is smart. Her proposals are both good policy AND tie into (what should be) the Democratic themes of the mid-terms.

  63. 63.

    Leto

    August 22, 2018 at 10:03 am

    @Betty Cracker: Have you listened to The Wilderness? It’s the O Bros (specifically Favreau) take on what’s wrong with the Dem party and potentially how to fix it. Some interesting ideas. They still have a tendency to shit on Hillary though (regular PSA podcasts) which leaves me more irritated with them. Pfeiffer’s Pod Save the World is a better one to listen to (foreign policy focused).

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s an interesting idea, trying to bring in more voters like that but how sustainable is that over the long run when, as you admitted and we know, the top 5 R donors can match that amount without breaking a sweat? Agree though that we have to start somewhere.

  64. 64.

    Yarrow

    August 22, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @jonas: The very same! And it looks like even a Trump endorsement couldn’t get him across the finish line.

  65. 65.

    smintheus

    August 22, 2018 at 10:05 am

    We also new a bill prohibiting members of Congress from borrowing money from banks that are lobbying them, which has now become a standard means of corrupting Republican swamp overlords. Vern Buchanan has been caught taking multi-million dollar loans from a foreign bank to buy a yacht and a plane while the bank was trying to influence him on tax proposals during the last few years. Buchanan is chair of the Tax Policy subcommittee of House Ways and Means. He used one of the loans to buy a yacht the day he voted for the Trump tax bill.

    Although Buchanan is one of the wealthiest members of Congress — worth at least $80 million — federal records show one of his limited liability companies financed the purchase with a BMO Harris Bank loan worth as much as $5 million. Since 2016, Buchanan’s companies have received three loans worth as much as $35 million from BMO Harris, which is the American subsidiary of the Bank of Montreal. In total, since he was appointed to the Ways and Means Committee in 2010, Buchanan and his companies have received between $17 million and $85 million worth of loans from four lenders.

    At the time Buchanan’s company received the 2017 yacht loan, BMO Harris was lobbying congressional lawmakers on tax policy overseen by the Ways and Means Committee, according to federal records. Buchanan received a separate BMO Harris loan for a plane in 2016. Records show that loan, worth between $5 million and $25 million, was made around the same time that the bank began lobbying lawmakers on “tax reform proposals.”

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    August 22, 2018 at 10:05 am

    @Yarrow: So a 78-year-old hedge fund manager is not an ideal gubernatorial candidate. Who could have guessed?

  67. 67.

    Yarrow

    August 22, 2018 at 10:07 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t want to stay on defense all the time. It’s dispiriting to our base. We can’t just “protect”- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, abortion rights, civil rights. That’s a defensive position and we can’t stay there. I personally can’t stay there- it doesn’t keep me engaged

    Yes. This.

  68. 68.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 10:08 am

    @Leto: I listened to one half of the first episode of The Wilderness — the one that rehashed the 2016 election. The part I heard was painful but good. I only stopped listening because I arrived at my destination! Will catch up next time I’m in the car.

  69. 69.

    tobie

    August 22, 2018 at 10:08 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe she’s talking about the rich and powerful influencing lawmakers.

    I like your phrasing a lot better than hers and agree with the point entirely. Government has come to serve the interests of the few–the fossil fuel industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the gambling industry, etc etc etc.–and reforms of the kind Sen. Warren is discussing are desperately needed. I wouldn’t have responded to Warren’s phrasing if this were a one-off occasion. It’s not. She’s smart and she knows what she’s doing. That’s what bothers me.

  70. 70.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 10:09 am

    MSNBC just announced and upcoming panel with Alan Dershowitz and Omarosa Manigault. My first thought was “journamalistic malpractice, even for political cable”. As nutty and hateful as the racist old coot may be, he’s been practicing and talking law, and chasing TV cameras, for longer than OMN has been alive. But with her pathological self-confidence and ability to word-salad shoot and inside knowledge and willingness to make accusations, Derhsowitz might meet his match in shameless showboating.

  71. 71.

    Frankensteinbeck

    August 22, 2018 at 10:09 am

    @Kay:

    IMO, corruption is an issue that plays well with Democratic voters.

    I think this is generally true, and I really like 90% of what I hear in this post. I do cringe at the accusation that government works for the rich. That should never be said without a clear qualifier that the speaker means Republicans. The argument that both parties are owned by corporations is the primary Purity Pony advertising pitch to young idealists.

  72. 72.

    Immanentize

    August 22, 2018 at 10:10 am

    @Yarrow: @Kay: Reduce the SS age to 60 — give the kids a chance in the world!

  73. 73.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 10:13 am

    @Leto: They still have a tendency to shit on Hillary though (regular PSA podcasts) which leaves me more irritated with them

    That and their tendency to treat Wilmer and his cultists with kid gloves (and the 8 million other podcasts I try to keep up with) have made me leery of the Wilderness, but I’ve seen a lot of positive chatter. Maybe I’ll save it for an upcoming road trip

  74. 74.

    Corner Stone

    August 22, 2018 at 10:15 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    MSNBC just announced and upcoming panel with Alan Dershowitz and Omarosa Manigault. My first thought was “journamalistic malpractice, even for political cable”.

    The main problem is that it’s on Hallie Jackson’s time block. And I can’t decide who I dislike more intensely of the three. Personally, I am loving this new Omarosa character the networks have unveiled. She’s smart, can’t be thrown off-track, and is a wonderful saleswoman.
    Dersh is going to Dersh. How do you teach law if you say out loud that something is a crime but everyone does it, so meh? I mean, we’re not talking rolling through a stop sign.

  75. 75.

    Corner Stone

    August 22, 2018 at 10:17 am

    @Leto: I gave the Obama Bros multiple chances but for my tastes they simply are not worth my time. Shitting on HRC for no damn good reason, selling NYT subscriptions, and getting into bed with Bill Frist to “reform” healthcare. No thanks. They sometimes do give good tweet though.

  76. 76.

    Aleta

    August 22, 2018 at 10:22 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That assumption needs more information than we have:

    Who’s paying for his lawyers?

    Did he refuse a deal with prosecutors ahead of time because
    –he expects a pardon
    –he’s holding information with enough weight to plead down his sentence, but waited to see the verdict (Or he couldn’t get witness protection yet; they’ve waited to offer it until they can get more out of him); or
    –he didn’t feel fear before now (Must have a high threshold for self-protective fear, considering his past clients)

    Does Trump believe a pardon will save him or make him look guilty. This depends on the effect of what Mueller does next.

    Who’s the biggest threat to Manafort?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets one though. Lying about taxes and on loan applications– made a mistake on the those complicated forms–who hasn’t done that? (Yo, Trump. Hey Kushner)

  77. 77.

    Corner Stone

    August 22, 2018 at 10:23 am

    Thought this was funny:

    Philippe Reines
    ‏Verified account @PhilippeReines
    17h17 hours ago

    Philippe Reines Retweeted Philippe Reines

    .@realDonaldTrump THANK YOU for making it ok to say “Merry Christmas Donald!”

  78. 78.

    Leto

    August 22, 2018 at 10:25 am

    @Betty Cracker: Another recommendation would be the Slow Burn podcast. The first season covered Watergate and personally I learned a lot. Second season is out and they’re covering Bill Clinton. First episode was how the FBI first approached Monica Lewinsky, and interviews some of the agents involved with that.

    Regarding The Wilderness, I’ll be interested on your take when you get to the Obama/Trump voters episode. I think that’s ep 5? Mainly with their take regarding those voters vs the BJ hivemind.

  79. 79.

    Aleta

    August 22, 2018 at 10:26 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Gordon Liddy toured a sideshow act with Timothy Leary in the 80s or 90s. Dog help us with the entertainment marketing to come.

  80. 80.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 10:30 am

    @Aleta: I’d rather have Avenatti rebooting Crossifre with Scaramucci than running for president, in part because I don’t watch CNN

  81. 81.

    Yarrow

    August 22, 2018 at 10:30 am

    @Aleta: The only real question is, does Trump think pardoning Manafort is good for Trump. He’s a narcissist and as such only sees things as good for him or bad for him.

    I maintain that pardoning Manafort is bad for Trump. If pardoned, Manafort would lose his ability to use the fifth amendment because he could not longer incriminate himself on those issues. Manafort talking is bad for Trump, so why would Trump pardon him?

  82. 82.

    Leto

    August 22, 2018 at 10:31 am

    No edit button:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve noticed that too regarding Wilmer and company. Any other good political podcast recommendations?

    @Corner Stone: Monday’s podcast had a part where they talked about what a hard time Chuck Todd has with trying to fact check liars in real time (specifically Ghouliani and “truth is not truth”), essentially giving Chuckles a pass, and saying that there’s still value in inviting on known liars. I was in the middle of my run, so couldn’t easily change the podcast, but the urge to throw my phone was very strong. So same question I asked Jim: better podcast recommendation?

  83. 83.

    Yarrow

    August 22, 2018 at 10:35 am

    @Leto: Maybe we should have a thread for podcast recommendations, like we have with book recommendations.

  84. 84.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 10:37 am

    @Leto: ssentially giving Chuckles a pass,

    that was one of those moments when I wanted to join twitter just to give somebody a dopeslap– “If it’s what you say it is, I love it, especially later in the summer!” is the heart of the whole fucking thing. THere’s no earpiece excuse for Chuckles letting that slide

    PSA and Slow burn (second your rec, it’s great) are really the only political podcasts I listen to. I turn to history podcasts to get away from trump

  85. 85.

    gene108

    August 22, 2018 at 10:38 am

    Anti-corruption worked in 2006. There was a back lash against Foley and perceived Republican corruption in covering up his wrong doings.

  86. 86.

    tobie

    August 22, 2018 at 10:39 am

    @Leto: It would be interesting to have an open thread devoted to voters we know personally who switched from Obama to Trump. My suspicion is that this demographic is very small and self-reporting is not the most reliable index. Still it would be interesting to hear about those who made the switch. I’ve only encountered one person who voted for Obama in 2008, didn’t vote in 2012 and went MAGA crazy in 2016. He’s got a small business removing and pruning trees. The big issue with him was that he felt like he couldn’t compete with “Mexicans” (the group he identified), so immigration was the big draw for him.

  87. 87.

    Another Scott

    August 22, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @Kay: Atrios is a crank about too many things, but he was and is right that 401Ks are a disaster and Expanding Social Security is excellent policy.

    I agree that we need to run on offense much, much more often.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  88. 88.

    Corner Stone

    August 22, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @Leto: I don’t listen to any podcasts with regularity. I’ll come across one or some piece of one that sounds interesting and give it a try. But I simply do not like the format for regular intake. I would much rather have a transcript to skim. And even when it’s video format I still can’t watch anything that’s 45 minutes long. So anyways…no.

  89. 89.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 10:45 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The argument that both parties are owned by corporations is the primary Purity Pony advertising pitch to young idealists.

    That’s absolutely true, but from what I see, it resonates far beyond that audience, and we’ve got to find a way to address that. 40% of eligible voters don’t even bother to show up in a presidential election year, and something like 65% don’t cast a ballot in midterm elections. That’s a genuine crisis of democracy.

    I’ve registered a ton of non-voters since November 2016, and the overwhelming impression I’ve gotten from my conversations with them is that they didn’t bother to vote because they didn’t think it would make a difference. They buy the “both sides/they all suck” message. Sanders, Warren, et al, didn’t invent it — they’re responding to what people believe.

    You can argue that they’re reinforcing a false narrative, and I take that point — it’s one I make frequently myself. But I don’t think it’s very convincing beyond the choir, tbh.

    Putting a stake in the ground on corruption like Warren is doing could maybe move the needle. Another thing that would be helpful, IMO, is to root out corruption in our party where it exists. And while the scale of Democratic corruption compared to that of Republicans is roughly proportional to the size of a BB and Jupiter, it does exist. For example, someone should have had a talk with Bob Menendez and told him to take a hike.

  90. 90.

    Frankensteinbeck

    August 22, 2018 at 10:50 am

    @Yarrow:

    The only real question is, does Trump think pardoning Manafort is good for Trump. He’s a narcissist and as such only sees things as good for him or bad for him.

    There’s another factor. Narcissists are rarely logical. He’s a mean shit, and he likes kicking people who are in trouble. Plus, someone made an excellent point about Trump while observing last night’s rally. Narcissists retreat from shame. “Manafort who?” is a very natural response to them, because they are far more insecure and terrified of public censure than regular people.

  91. 91.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 22, 2018 at 10:51 am

    @Betty Cracker: it’s a tricky line to walk, but it’s a point Dems and their allies need to push. It’s one of the reasons the lazy anti-Pelosi rhetoric drives me nuts. The idea that she’s part of the fabled “neo-liberal” borg because she’s old and influential (and personally ) rich doesn’t change the fact that she’s a progressive fighter.

    That said, someone needs to point out to her that bragging about her fund-raising to TV cameras is the wrong message for this moment. Talk about expanding health care, protecting the environment and voting rights.

  92. 92.

    Chris Johnson

    August 22, 2018 at 10:51 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I do cringe at the accusation that government works for the rich. That should never be said without a clear qualifier that the speaker means Republicans.

    wat? Money is party-blind. You’re insane if you don’t think Democrats are way deep in that trough. The difference is, Democrats have a chance if the trough is gone. Republicans don’t.

    The whole business of re-election campaigns, which are constant, is taking money from rich people and rich corporations. That’s nearly all they do. It’s constant phonebanking and trying to find contributors. It’s actually a horrible job, I think just about anybody stuck with it would like a better way.

  93. 93.

    Kay

    August 22, 2018 at 10:56 am

    Adam Davidson
    ‏
    Verified account

    @adamdavidson
    Follow Follow @adamdavidson
    More
    Millionaire hustlers should be far more scared that they will be prosecuted if they blatantly lie to banks and the IRS in order to get and keep money illegally.
    There should be indictments and convictions constantly, not only in extreme cases

    This will be popular- a crackdown on white collar crime. I would bet money on it. The 3% of people who are offended by it weren’t voting for your candidates anyway and even if they did it wouldn’t matter- they’re 3%.

  94. 94.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 11:03 am

    @Kay: Yes! Chris Hayes pointed out that Manafort and Cohen had no priors before yesterday — even though they’ve been high-profile grifters in plain sight for decades. Meanwhile, we’re the planet’s chief jailer, incarcerating the poor (disproportionately POC) for crimes that materially affect practically no one and ruining average citizens’ lives over petty shit. It’s outrageous.

  95. 95.

    gene108

    August 22, 2018 at 11:03 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The argument that both parties are owned by corporations is the primary Purity Pony advertising pitch to young idealists.

    Even non-Bernie/ DSA’ers, who are solidly behind Democrats feel Democrats are not above being corrupt. If you look at heavily Democratic areas, like Baltimore, Philadelphia, Detroit, etc., there’s always some city official getting busted for corruption, whether it’s the mayor, the DA, the city controller, etc.

    I think it is good to take a stand as being against corruption, but there’s enough corruption on the Democratic side, on an individual basis, that people feel both sides are not playing fair.

    I think what has to be conveyed is the difference between individual corruption and creating a climate of systemic corruption. Individual Democrats maybe corrupt, but they are not creating a system that caters to allowing the rich and powerful to write laws in their favor, which Republicans are doing. I’m not holding my breath that this will be explained to people, as to requires a level of nuance most folks don’t have the time or interest to grasp.

  96. 96.

    The Moar You Know

    August 22, 2018 at 11:08 am

    It would be interesting to have an open thread devoted to voters we know personally who switched from Obama to Trump. My suspicion is that this demographic is very small and self-reporting is not the most reliable index.

    @tobie: I know two Trump voters who claim to have voted for Obama in 2008. One I know for a fact did not, voted for McCain. My estimate is that the vast majority of people who claimed to have done this did not.

  97. 97.

    Evil_Paul

    August 22, 2018 at 11:08 am

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini: Holy crap, you ain’t kidding! I’m reading off an iPhone 6 as well and I’m down 2/3 Battery life! And I literally just unplugged it this morning to catch up on last night’s threads.

  98. 98.

    schrodingers_cat

    August 22, 2018 at 11:10 am

    @gene108:

    I think what has to be conveyed is the difference between individual corruption and creating a climate of systemic corruption. Individual Democrats maybe corrupt, but they are not creating a system that caters to allowing the rich and powerful to write laws in their favor, which Republicans are doing. I’m not holding my breath that this will be explained to people, as to requires a level of nuance most folks don’t have the time or interest to grasp.

    Well said. As for individual corruption, human nature being what it is, it is going to be impossible to eradicate. But Rs are consistently against regulations and rules that would in any way hold white collar criminals accountable

  99. 99.

    schrodingers_cat

    August 22, 2018 at 11:12 am

    @tobie: My ex-friend voted for Obama twice and then for JS in 2016. Her husband voted for Obama twice and then for T. So only one example.

  100. 100.

    VOR

    August 22, 2018 at 11:15 am

    This was one of Trump’s campaign messages. He said politicians catered to the rich and powerful because they gave campaign contributions. He knew, because he did it. Then he claimed that his insight into the corruption uniquely allowed him to fix the system. Of course he hasn’t done squat since elected to address this other than the empty slogan of “drain the swamp” and bringing new, more feral creatures into the swamp.

  101. 101.

    tobie

    August 22, 2018 at 11:18 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: @Betty Cracker: @gene108: Since Reagan, people have been running against the government because Reagan convinced the electorate that the government was the enemy of the people. I think there are two ways to respond to this. One is to talk about combatting corruption, the other is to talk about making government work for you. I’m more taken by the latter, but clearly others are more moved by the corruption pitch. The Democratic party is going to have to find a way to adopt both lines. It’s not easy. This is the conundrum of being a truly big-tent coalition.

  102. 102.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    August 22, 2018 at 11:25 am

    @The Moar You Know:

    Why do you think that they claim to have voted for Obama?

  103. 103.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    August 22, 2018 at 11:28 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    What was their reasoning?

  104. 104.

    Betty Cracker

    August 22, 2018 at 11:51 am

    @tobie: IMO, combating corruption and making the government work for you aren’t competing messages. The baseline argument is this: The government is working for fat cats now because they buy access. Let’s drive them out so ordinary citizens can be heard and served.

    Reagan railed against government per se, implying that everything would be better if government just got out of the way. I don’t think even his moron supporters really believed that — they wanted their Social Security, Medicare, etc., they just didn’t want black people to get benefits.

  105. 105.

    schrodingers_cat

    August 22, 2018 at 11:59 am

    @Steeplejack (phone): BLM and all the anti-ISIS hysteria freaked out my friend who was also very anti-HRC. She was on the BS bus. Her husband is an R, who came home. Temporary sanity was because he personally liked Obama and was pissed with W for tanking the economy. Also they both moved from a college town to wingnut central in Idaho to be with family.

  106. 106.

    wuzzat

    August 22, 2018 at 12:22 pm

    @Baud: “Give the government back to the people,” or if that sounds too “entitlement programmy,” “Take the government back from Wall Street.”

    Trumpistas and Berners hate Wall Street because Hillary Clinton gave speeches there.

  107. 107.

    Another Scott

    August 22, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    @gene108:

    If you look at heavily Democratic areas, like Baltimore, Philadelphia, Detroit, etc., there’s always some city official getting busted for corruption, whether it’s the mayor, the DA, the city controller, etc.

    This.

    I think this is the absolutely biggest problem with Democrats not having bigger success in the suburbs and rural areas (even bigger than racism and the rest). People look at how badly and how corruptly too many Democratically-controlled cities have been run and say they can’t vote for that party. We really need to do more to clean up big-city politics in many, many areas.

    Of course, there are lots of reasons why cities are badly run (lack of investment in the 100+ year old physical plant, residual pollution poisoning residents, etc.). And lots of the bad examples aren’t as bad as, say, intentionally poisoning Flint. But that doesn’t mean that Democratic leaders should think that they can get away with being corrupt.

    Being an elected official means that you are given certain powers in return for the expectation that you will conduct yourself honorably. Too many people on our team don’t do that.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  108. 108.

    J R in WV

    August 22, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini:

    Just a plea to anyone who can talk to Alain:

    YOU can talk to Alain, there’s a click link to email site issues on the front page. Though Major^4 might get some of those emails… but I’m betting you don’t care who fixes it.

    Also, install an ad-blocker, which will fix many or most of the issues, which are caused by ads being written to misbehave.

  109. 109.

    J R in WV

    August 22, 2018 at 2:20 pm

    @tobie:

    Your comment has nothing to do with Warren’s proposed legislation. She’s talking about lobbying, and you’re talking about elections.

    Wake up and learn to read, then go and read her proposal, as opposed to bits or misleading propaganda about her proposal. You are making things up because of your personal feelings, which is as bad as the Republicans making things up about Demonrats on their side.

    The last thing we need is someone who claims to be on our side building strawmen for the fascists. Or maybe you are on their side, I don’t know you so I won’t claim to have an opinion until I learn more.

  110. 110.

    tobie

    August 22, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    @J R in WV: Good grief. Did you read what I wrote?

    I like Sen. Warren’s proposals a lot.

    Or this a few comments down:

    Government has come to serve the interests of the few–the fossil fuel industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the gambling industry, etc etc etc.–and reforms of the kind Sen. Warren is discussing are desperately needed.

    It’s also true that she slips into a populist rhetoric that obviously many people find very appealing. I just don’t happen to be one of them. I like Warren when she shows not her common but her uncommon (as in exceptional) sense, experience, and expertise. Sorry if it’s offensive to you to critique some of Warren’s rhetoric while praising other aspects of her program.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • Jeffro on Saturday Afternoon Open Thread (Sep 23, 2023 @ 5:03pm)
  • NotMax on Saturday Afternoon Open Thread (Sep 23, 2023 @ 5:03pm)
  • Omnes Omnibus on Saturday Afternoon Open Thread (Sep 23, 2023 @ 5:03pm)
  • JoyceH on Saturday Afternoon Open Thread (Sep 23, 2023 @ 5:01pm)
  • JPL on Saturday Afternoon Open Thread (Sep 23, 2023 @ 5:00pm)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
We All Need A Little Kindness
What Has Biden Done for You Lately?

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
TaMara
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Join the Fight!

Join the Fight Signup Form
All Join the Fight Posts

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Cole & Friends Learn Español

Introductory Post
Cole & Friends Learn Español

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2023 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!