BREAKING: The House Judiciary Committee is told to expect notification by 5pm that the Mueller report has been delivered to Barr
— Ellen Nakashima (@nakashimae) March 22, 2019
https://twitter.com/ktbenner/status/1109199280408092677
From The New York Times:
WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, has delivered a report on his inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 election to Attorney General William P. Barr, according to the Justice Department, bringing to an apparent close an investigation that has consumed the nation and cast a shadow over President Trump for nearly two years.
Mr. Barr will decide how much of the report to share with Congress and, by extension, the American public. The House voted unanimously in March on a nonbinding resolution to make public the report’s findings, an indication of the deep support within both parties to air whatever evidence prosecutors uncovered.
Since Mr. Mueller’s appointment in May 2017, his team has focused on how Russian operatives sought to sway the outcome of the 2016 presidential race and whether anyone tied to the Trump campaign, wittingly or unwittingly, cooperated with them. While the inquiry, started months earlier by the F.B.I., unearthed a far-ranging Russian influence operation, no public evidence has emerged that the president or his aides illegally assisted it.
Nonetheless, the damage to Mr. Trump and those in his circle has been extensive. A half-dozen former Trump aides have been indicted or convicted of crimes, mostly for lying to federal investigators or Congress. Others remain under investigation in cases that Mr. Mueller’s office handed off to federal prosecutors in New York and elsewhere. Dozens of Russian intelligence officers or citizens, along with three Russian companies, were charged in cases that are likely to languish in court because the defendants cannot be extradited to the United States.
Even though Mr. Mueller’s report is complete, some aspects of his inquiry remain active and may be overseen by the same prosecutors once they are reassigned to their old jobs within the Justice Department. For instance, recently filed court documents suggest that investigators are still examining why the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort turned over campaign polling data in 2016 to a Russian associate whom prosecutors said was tied to Russian intelligence.
Mr. Mueller looked extensively at whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice to protect himself or his associates. But despite months of negotiations, prosecutors were unable to personally interview the president.
Those who know Mr. Mueller, a former F.B.I. director, predicted a concise, legalistic report devoid of opinions — nothing like the 445-page treatise that Kenneth W. Starr, who investigated President Bill Clinton, produced in 1998. Operating under a now-defunct statute that governed independent counsels, Mr. Starr had far more leeway than Mr. Mueller to set his own investigative boundaries and to render judgments.
The regulations that govern Mr. Mueller, who is under the supervision of the Justice Department, only require him to explain his decisions to either seek or decline to seek criminal charges in a confidential report to the attorney general. The attorney general is then required to notify the leadership of the House and Senate judiciary committees.
During his Senate confirmation hearing, Mr. Barr promised to release as much information as possible, saying “the country needs a credible resolution of these issues.” But he may be reluctant to release the part of Mr. Mueller’s report that may be of most interest: who the special counsel declined to prosecute and why, especially if Mr. Trump is on that list.
As of now no one knows anything more than they did 10 minutes ago before Special Counsel Mueller delivered his report to the Attorney General. So we will have a long weekend of fevered and feverish speculation about what is or is not in the report. About what information will and will not be released from the report to Congress or the American people.
Remember: NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING MORE THAN THEY DID TEN MINUTES AGO!!!!!
Updated at 5:30 PM EDT
Update at 5:56 PM EDT
Speaker Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Schumer have responded to Attorney General Barr’s notification to the House and Senate Judiciary Committees that Special Counsel Mueller has turned in his report:
Pelosi, Schumer Joint Statement On Special Counsel Mueller’s Report
MARCH 22, 2019
Washington, D.C. – Today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer released the following statement regarding Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report to Attorney General William Barr:
“Now that Special Counsel Mueller has submitted his report to the Attorney General, it is imperative for Mr. Barr to make the full report public and provide its underlying documentation and findings to Congress. Attorney General Barr must not give President Trump, his lawyers or his staff any ‘sneak preview’ of Special Counsel Mueller’s findings or evidence, and the White House must not be allowed to interfere in decisions about what parts of those findings or evidence are made public.
“The Special Counsel’s investigation focused on questions that go to the integrity of our democracy itself: whether foreign powers corruptly interfered in our elections, and whether unlawful means were used to hinder that investigation. The American people have a right to the truth. The watchword is transparency.”
Updated at 6:47 PM EDT
Principal conclusions of the special counsel's report will be made public when it is delivered to Congress, according to officials at @TheJusticeDept.
— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) March 22, 2019
Open thread!
Betty Cracker
Anne Laurie
Snark, however, is always applicable:
MomSense
I have this naggjng worry that Barr May have stopped the investigation.
zzyzx
I posted this in the thread below, but I’ll be stunned if this has any lasting impact. I suspect we’re not going to learn anything we don’t already at least suspect. We’ll be mad over the misdeeds, Trump will crow “No collusion,” and by mid April, we’ll be onto something else.
People have been putting way too high of an expectation on this, one that it can never live up to.
Adam L Silverman
@Betty Cracker: The SDNY, US Attorney of DC, AG of NY, District Attorney of Manhattan, etc all sill have miles to go before they sleep.
rikyrah
I always loved the iceberg graphic
MomSense
@Adam L Silverman:
Isn’t there still an ongoing proceeding between the special counsel and the Russian owned firm about their refusal to hand over subpoenaed documents?
zzyzx
My one hope is that there’s something there that at least embarrasses Trump.
chopper
so, what if barr redacts a shit ton of the report before sending it to congress? does the house call mueller in to testify?
dmsilev
We’re going to find that Mueller and his entire team actually spent the last two years playing an extended Angry Birds marathon, right?
Comrade Scrutinizer
This was always going to be Fitzmas II. The Mueller report, whatever it says, was better as an inchoate threat rather than as a reality.
Brachiator
Received a couple of hot notifications that it’s Mueller time. Friday Night Lights!
We will see what happens.
eemom
The deecee skies rumbled, darkened, and poured down hail late this afternoon. Now it’s clear and sunny. #coinkydinkIthinknot
tobie
I have a question–what would be the reason for keeping any indictments sealed at this point?
AG Khazumi left the SDNY today to be closer to his family in DC? Does anyone have any interpretation of this factoid?
Frankensteinbeck
Adam, do I understand correctly that Mueller likely would not have indicted the top criminals, only the ones he needed to gather the evidence for someone else to indict the criminals named in his final report?
@MomSense:
I think we would have heard if Barr made them cut short. The White House leaks like a sieve, and the IC has a personal stake in this.
chopper
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
even if the report isn’t a knockout, there’s going to be plenty of fodder for further investigations by the house.
ruemara
We’ll see if this has any worth as we see what happens.
tobie
@eemom: it’s dark again in Maryland and raining. We are not in the clear.
Shalimar
Don’t care about the report. Want all the grand jury materials turned over to appropriate House committees.
feebog
There are almost three dozen sealed indictments filed at the DC circuit court. How many of them are from Mueller? And if any of them are, when will they be unsealed?
piratedan
my tangible worry is that even with evidence that shows that the GOP party officials engaged in conspiracy to subvert the elections with the aid of foreign agents by use of money, technical means and illicit gathering of data (all of which is illegal as far as I understand it) and that they also in fact coordinated their efforts with the current administration and many members of Congress and the Senate, that the GOP will find themselves not guilty or culpable of any wrong doing because they are anointed of God and their cause is just, no matter the laws of the land.
trollhattan
“Trump weighs the same as a duck and therefore….”
–R. Mueller III
Suzanne
I am already having a hard time managing my anxiety today, and this is just ratcheting that shit right up.
trollhattan
Our metroplex brewery count is now >100.
How many can I hit before closing time?
Adam L Silverman
@MomSense: Yes, as well as the appeal by one of Stone’s “assistants” of Mueller’s subpoena. What we don’t know is if this is the final report. Just the portion on obstruction. Just the portion on conspiracy with Russia. Just the portion on Russian interference. All of it, some of it, none of it.
Hence, no one knows anything more than they did 30 minutes ago.
A Ghost To Most
@tobie: They have had sealed indictments since late August. Perhaps logistics?
RenoRick
I’m a bit worried this was put out on a Friday. Could mean nothing, or could mean anything! I doubt this will change anything since the media loves them some Cheeto!
Adam L Silverman
@MomSense: Actually based on Barr’s letter to the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, he’s done done:
NotMax
“Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
&&160; – Winston Churchill
A Ghost To Most
@feebog: This. There have been ~17 held since late August, I believe.
NotMax
Ack. Pre-coffee bleary-eyed code fail Fix.
“Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
– Winston Churchill
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: What happens if there are sealed indictments?
raven
WE is a French word that means yes.
MomSense
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t trust Barr as far as I can throw a piano. He is the person who saved George HW, and the rest of the traitorous Iran Contra conspirators.
Adam L Silverman
@chopper: Yep.
JPL
The news media needs to chill. They are like tots on xmas morning
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: Candy Crush.
MazeDancer
Bought 4 bottles of wine yesterday. May not last until tomorrow.
How can Jared and Don,Jr not be in handcuffs?
Adam L Silverman
@Frankensteinbeck: I do not know.
Anya
Can we assume then there won’t be indictments of Jr, Jared or anyone else?
Adam L Silverman
@feebog: We do not know the answers to either of those questions.
guachi
Unfortunately for America the report of indict/no indict, right?
That won’t be enough to actually tell us what happened. It’s not an Intelligence report.
Wapiti
@MomSense: Agreed. He’s tainted.
Skepticat
@zzyzx: This.
Adam L Silverman
@piratedan:
This is just SCIENCE!
Mary G
@Suzanne: I know. I would kill for a large bottle of Xanax so I could just sleep for the next week.
And he indicts people for lying to Congress, but not Don Jr., Kushner, et. al?
Frankensteinbeck
@Adam L Silverman:
Good enough answer! You’re a great expert for government and IC matters, but nobody knows everything. Thank you.
A Ghost To Most
@Skepticat: People thought Nixon was going to skate. Until they didn’t.
The system is working. Patience.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Egads! – The Red October is surfacing
piratedan
@Adam L Silverman: I find your lack of faith… disturbing, young Silverman,,,
Bobby Thomson
@MomSense: “May?” It clearly wasn’t finished.
NotMax
On the plus side, we no longer need be subjected to a periodic influx of people running around with their hair aflame screaming “Mueller’s gonna be fired any second now!”
;)
Bobby Thomson
@A Ghost To Most: Nixon was forced out by a Congress that passed environmental protection with supermajorities.
khead
Wanted to highlight this before heading off to happy hour.
Bobby Thomson
@NotMax: he effectively was.
VeniceRiley
Is this the part where Republicans all head to “Republican Disneyland” Mar-a-Lago for golf and underage sex slaves?
TS (the original)
@piratedan: That is no worry – that is fact. I’m not sure the world will survive 2 more years of trump and the GOP.
Brickley Paiste
At the press conference Barr was standing in front of gold-fringed flags, which means the court is acting under maritime law, not criminal law. So, no indictments possible, Q.E.D.
Suzanne
@Mary G:
For whom are those sealed indictments?
Adam L Silverman
@Anya: We cannot. US Attorney in DC, SDNY, AG of NY State, etc.
JMG
Dave Weigh of the Post had a good point. Democrats in Congress are no longer going to be able to punt on the impeachment question by saying they’re waiting for the report.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Cripes. I’m tired of living in interesting times.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
The only cheerful thing I’ve seen!
Adam L Silverman
@guachi: Pelosi and Schumer have responded:
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/32219-2/
trollhattan
@VeniceRiley:
Yuge, classy tire swing for the trifecta.
CarolDuhart2
@TS (the original): Barring the 25th Amendment or an act of God, there’s going to be two more years of Trump. The Republicans won’t remove him unless something comes out that’s so bad that nobody at all could even try to defend them. They are too scared of his base to even defend an old and deceased colleague, let alone anything more oppositional.
I’m afraid of the results, but remember that even here, a lot of other entities are going to keep working. NYC and NY State have a lot of cases, the Attorney’s Offices are career prosecutors, there are several lawsuits, and worst of all, the Epstein case is heating up.
Mueller was always going to stop before he was considered a factor in the 2020 Election anyway. March 2019 is while still a long way from the primaries, close enough with candidates announcing.
JMG
It’s Dave Weigel of the Post, not my typo of his name. My own opinion is that the more explosive Mueller’s report the more likely we are to see more of it, as the hotter it is, the less Barr is going to want to hold it.
BruceFromOhio
I plan to speculate recklessly, judge and impugn harshly without context or factual basis, question every detail for sole purpose of obscuring what matters, and wave my arms around in a spasm of spittle-flecked invective.
In other words, practicing for my audition to a grifter slot on Fox Propaganda! Win-win!
Meanwhile, Buffalo is handing AZ State a big plate of offense for additional winning. Woohoo!
Brickley Paiste
@Suzanne:
Nobody has any idea. Those are, apparently, filed with the court and nobody even knows for sure whether they are related to the Mueller investigation.
Most branches of federal courthouses have a number of sealed indictments just sitting around. My wife was on Grand Jury and over the course of 18 months, they voted for over 30 indictments in a matter that were sealed and until the investigation was complete and the raids happened one morning. (Criminal case involving arms trafficking, nothing related to Mueller.)
smintheus
Probably been said already, but presumably this is not “the” Mueller report, but a Mueller report. This is just the report explaining why he has/has not indicted people. But he was tasked with a counterintelligence investigation as well as a criminal investigation. There must be at least one report on the former coming.
trnc
@Adam L Silverman:
Not to mention the US House of Representatives.
Adam L Silverman
@Frankensteinbeck: I understand the intel side of this well, I understand the counter-intel side pretty well. I’m not a lawyer. That said, I don’t think this is anywhere close to over.
rikyrah
Crutches&Spice♿️ (@Imani_Barbarin) Tweeted:
Something I want you to pay attention to in the wake of white supremacist violence:
White “allies” are always quoted saying “this isn’t the country I know,” while those marginalized and targeted are almost never heard saying that.
Why? Because that is the country they know. https://twitter.com/Imani_Barbarin/status/1109126722690187264?s=17
smintheus
It’s also worth noting that the FBI did not ever interview Trump. Just as the FBI did not interview Kavanaugh regarding the accusations against him. Quite a coincidence.
Adam L Silverman
@trnc: Correct.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m sorta hoping that Mueller prefixed it with a carefully crafted large-font one page “executive” summary.
Shallow, yep.
Tony Jay
If you guys put a 2×4 across the knees of the Familia di Trumpo in the same week that we finally start hammering a stake through the rotted corpse of Brexit….
Why my good people, I may raise more than a smile.
( twirls mustaches, risks an inappropriate wink, gets coat, leaves)
CarolDuhart2
This is one of the benefits of taking back the House: there will be continued hearings and oversight, the report will not be deepsixed behind classification. Given what’s already come out, I doubt if Trump is exonerated unless everybody around him kept him entirely in the dark about everything. Given his personality, the answer is no. He trusts nobody that much to leave it all up to them.
MazeDancer
@Anya:
Mueller has announced through spokesperson no more indictments.
It’s all up to SDNY, now
zhena gogolia
Joyce White Vance
Brachiator
OT God fucking dammit
I just saw this headline
This is so fucking unfair. I have no words.
rikyrah
Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) Tweeted:
Americans deserve to know the truth now that the Mueller report is complete. The report must be released immediately and AG Barr must publicly testify under oath about the investigation’s findings. We need total transparency here. https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1109212955147755520?s=17
rikyrah
???
Robert Scott (@rescott534) Tweeted:
Hillary Clinton lost the Presidency by about 77,430 Votes over Three States two of which Wisconsin and Michigan had Republican Governors who instituted severe Voter Suppression and Pennsylvania had hacking of it’s Voting Machines so let’s stop this bullshit about flawed candidate https://twitter.com/rescott534/status/1108909388650242050?s=17
Adam L Silverman
@MazeDancer: There will be no more indictments made by the Special Counsel’s Office. This doesn’t tell us what, if anything, Special Counsel Mueller handed off to SDNY, the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, the NY State AG, etc.
It also does not mean that DNI Coates is shutting down the Combined Joint Counterintelligence Task Force.
rikyrah
Robert Scott (@rescott534) Tweeted:
Hillary Clinton lost the Presidency by about 77,430 Votes over Three States two of which Wisconsin and Michigan had Republican Governors who instituted severe Voter Suppression and Pennsylvania had hacking of it’s Voting Machines so let’s stop this bullshit about flawed candidate https://twitter.com/rescott534/status/1108909388650242050?s=17
rikyrah
@MomSense:
TRUTH ??
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
What about sealed indictments?
JPL
@rikyrah: Thank you.
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah:
I see from some of the tweets on that thread that the Repub mantra now is “NO INDICTMENTS!”
Aleta
Here are the threads Mueller has begun to publicly unravel—and the lingering mysteries that might fall to Congress to solve.
Atlantic, by Natasha Bertrand
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: My guess if they’re sealed and still operable, then they’ve been handed off to the appropriate US Attorneys Offices for action.
Seanly
Color me cynical, but this won’t change anything. All Republicans will keep protecting this asshat of a President because he’s a Republican and they’re Republicans. Maybe there’s something juicy in the sealed indictments, but when do they get unsealed?
Aleta
?BillinGlendaleCA
@rikyrah: It’s the lie that will never die.
Steeplejack
A useful thread (from the Hoarse Whisperer last month) to help us quell our fears and hyperventilating: Mueller as investigator rather than prosecutor.
NotMax
OT.
Carter beats Bush.
schrodingers_cat
Can we postpone the panic until we know more?
Elizabelle
Checking in from Germany. Had a feeling today might be the day. Just learned of this (my friend and I have been watching episodes of The Fall, which several of you recommended, and which is excellent, thank you).
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: For now, in the US, you are free to panic as much or as little or as often as you like.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: No, we must panic.
oldgold
I am puzzled as to why Jr., Kush and the Princess were not called before the GJ.
I was hoping it was because they were named in sealed indictments. I guess, that still could be so, but am much less confident of that than I was 30 days ago.
MisterForkbeard
@zhena gogolia: I’m honestly surprised by the lack of obstruction of justice indictments. Because… yeah, those seemed pretty damn clear.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: It’s right there in the 30th Amendment to the Constitution.
debbie
@eemom:
Trump sounded exactly as he always does when he made his remarks before leaving for Florida this afternoon. I couldn’t tell whether he was trying to keep up a brave front before the bad news became public or if he was saying exactly what he always says so as not to give away the joyous news.
MisterForkbeard
@oldgold: Sealed indictments appear to not be a thing. From TPM: “CNN reporter Laura Jarrett said that there were no sealed indictments issued by the special counsel waiting to be released.”
rk
If Trump spends the weekend and next week crazed tweeting and trashing Mueller, then the report is bad. If he triumphantly tweets no collusion and claiming exoneration then the report is not bad for him and he’s gotten away with stealing the election.
zhena gogolia
You guys are really depressing me. I should have been reading War and Peace for the past hour instead of getting bummed out here.
debbie
@Brickley Paiste:
More likely, he stood there to protect them from Trump. You know how Trump gets when he sees a flag.
Miss Bianca
@schrodingers_cat: NOOOOO!! Panic! Flail! Gibber! Aaargh! Blither!
jk
@zzyzx:
I suspect you’re correct making it all the more important that we pick the best possible Democratic nominee to kick Trump’s fat totalitarian ass out of office in 2020.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Miss Bianca: That’s the spirit?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@NotMax:
That’s my expectation. Next will be the pointless fight between Trump and Congress over releasing the report. Trump will lose, The report will be released and won’t be as bad as voices in Trump’s head made it out to be, since Muller wasn’t looking into the cannibalism allegations. So Trump will scream “Exonerated!”. Then everyone will read the report and then we non lawyers will learn the legal phrases for four crimes and so on.
A Ghost To Most
@MisterForkbeard: No more from Mueller. Active cases were handed off. Jarrett asked the question of the Mueller investigation.
This story isn’t over. We are just getting to the good part.
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, I am skipping the comments on this thread. I tire of the cynics and know it alls here.
Was rather hoping for some Trump family indictments, I must say. Let’s see what’s in the report, and how this plays out.
Grateful to be nowhere near US cable news this weekend.
wuzzat
@Bobby Thomson: And Nixon was so far left of today’s Republican Party that I’m pretty sure the GOP has retroactively declared him a Democrat.
debbie
@Brachiator:
Just horrible. How long before Anne Coulter begins her mockery?
Brickley Paiste
@debbie:
And the gold fringe drives him batty because gold is, like, super CLASSY. Very ELEGANT.
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Oh shit. Soul-crushing. That poor, poor girl. I grieve for her and her stolen life.
Another Scott
@chopper: I assume Mueller is going to be busy testifying before the House regardless. It will be telling if the GOP refuses to call him to testify before the Senate.
Cheers,
Scott.
Seanly
@Elizabelle:
The first season was such a refreshing change to the typical television hunt for a serial killer. Many of the performances were very good. A couple of the subplots weren’t so good, but I liked it overall. The second season of “The Fall” started off interesting but fumbled numerous times. I don’t want to spoil anything, but the best part of the second season was the first few episodes when it was dealing with an aspect of the investigation that is never dealt with on TV.
Felanius Kootea
@TS (the original): Oh, the world will survive it. The US might not.
Steve in the ATL
@Elizabelle:
You pied me?!
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: I hear NBC “News” blathering in the living room as I type in my office. I’m switching to Law & Order reruns. I sometimes think there are television shows that present more context, nuance, truth and information than our “Librul Media”.
Miss Bianca
@Steeplejack: Nice thread. It’s commenters like the Hoarse Whisperer that make me actually feel like getting a Twitter account.
Then I lie down till the feeling goes away.
@Elizabelle: I think it made it through two seasons of “The Fall”, is there a third? It’s hard to get over here on DVD.
JWR
@Tony Jay: Just to ease the tension around these parts, I’m so looking forward to whatever you have to say about Brexit being boosted to FP status!
Jay
@Tony Jay:
Tony, can you Britsplain something to me?
Nothing that I have read, anywhere, adequately explains to me why the Leave/Russian cheating and fraud is a “non-issue” in the UK.
I understand that some of the media don’t want to touch it with a 10 foot pole, because they are complicit, but the Beebs? The House, the Remainers?
piratedan
@Steve in the ATL: perhaps she only tarted you….
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Adam L Silverman: Isn’t there also a galaxy of other Federal prosecutors involved in possible crimes that came out of this investigation?
Ladyraxterinok
@rikyrah: Thank you for this link. AND for the many others you have provided. I’ve learned a lot. Have had to re-examine and re-consider many things I took for granted or simply failed to see and/or think about.
It has not been pleasant at all times, but I hope I’ve made some progress.
(From 79YO white woman who spent 1940-1961 in the world of OK and TX. Then 61-68 in the far different world of grad school in NoCA and the eye-opening world of the 60s world of the Penninsula south of SF.)
Danielx
@zzyzx
Be nice to think so, but I have yet to notice trump being embarrassed by anything whatsoever
hilts
@Elizabelle:
Don’t give up hope. I look forward to the long arm of the law coming down on Jared, Ivanka, and Don Jr like a ton of bricks.
Adam L Silverman
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yes, those would be the folks at the US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York and for DC.
Adam L Silverman
delk
@schrodingers_cat: thank you!
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Link to that thread by Joyce White Vance:
Anya
@Adam L Silverman: i don’t understand how the special council indicated people for lying to Congress but doesn’t touch the president’s son and his son in-law
zhena gogolia
@jk:
I made my first contributions today, to Kamala and Pete. Not ready to make it monthly yet. If I do it will be Harris.
Karen
@JMG: What is the purpose of a one House Impeachment? The Senate is not gonna do anything about it so what is the point?
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: Because of course he will. His poll numbers went up twenty points after he started kissing trumps ass. Since EFG isn’t back yet, let me add fuck.em.
Adam L Silverman
@Anya: He may have handed that off to the US Attorney in DC to deal with so he could finish his work. But ultimately we don’t know right now and we may never know.
Danielx
@Adam L Silverman:
Please sir, may I have another?
Ladyraxterinok
@debbie: Ot Laura Ingraham? a la her treatment of David Hogg.
JoeyJoeJoe
the panicking and speculation always reminds me of this guy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KojYatpLPSE
Adam L Silverman
@Danielx: There are things that I do not want to think about.
Emma
Oh for crying out loud. The reality of this investigation always was that Mueller wasn’t going to perpwalk Trump, ok? Not his brief. The prosecution of a president is always, always up to Congress. The best we can get at the moment is to let the House hound the bastards for information while we take back either the presidency or the senate.
@Karen: GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT THERE
Adam L Silverman
lamh36
Assange arrested in the U.K.
https://twitter.com/politicalgates/status/1109223623829659653
Bobby Thomson
@Steeplejack: so he says. And he’s a liar going way back who works for a bigger liar backed up by a party of liars.
MisterForkbeard
@lamh36: That’s from 2010.
Ruckus
@Miss Bianca:
I keep thinking I need to sign up for twitter. I have to sign up for twitter. The world will come to an end if I don’t sign up for twitter.
And then I wake up, look around, shrug and get on with my life, such as it is. Don’t let the dark side take over.
Karen
When talking about this Report, they said that a President cannot be indicted and acted as if that’s a well known fact. Adam, is that true? If Trump cannot be indicted then what’s the point of this Report?
JPL
@lamh36: It’s from 2010..
JWR
@lamh36: FAKE NEWS! //snark
Bill Arnold
@hilts:
I have thoroughly suppressed somewhat harsher desires for their eventual fates. Jared and Ivanka in particular. (Humility. I want them to experience that feeling for the first time in their lives, even if it does damage to their minds.)
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Which translation, or original Russian?
JPL
@Karen: Supposedly it is a policy of DOJ which Comey ignored. If not indicted you are not suppose to talk about the evidence.
Danielx
@Adam L Silverman:
What can I say? At this point – and I admit it’s been a bad day – I feel tired. Mueller’s report isn’t going to change any minds. Republican pols won’t be moved. As for trump fans, they could see the shitgibbon fucking a dead pig or live child or vice versa with their own eyes and they would deny it or say it was perfectly okay.
Which does not mean I won’t do whatever I can to oppose him…..
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s a nice piece of writing–who’s “at Mar-a-Lago”–Graham or Mueller?
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Tweet is dead and gone.
lamh36
@MisterForkbeard: @JWR: @Adam L Silverman:
I knew it was too good to be true!
@lamh36: dang…seems it’s an old tweet…oh well
Adam L Silverman
@Karen: According to DOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel guidance from 1973, a sitting president cannot be indicted. It is not based in law, nor in the Constitution. The argument that Neil Katyal, who drafted the current guidelines for appointing a special counsel and for how one operates, has been making is that if the DOJ guidance is being followed, and the President cannot be indicted, then the DOJ has no choice but to release everything to Congress (at least), so that Congress can decide if impeachment is warranted.
We shall see.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: That’s a separate policy rooted in the Privacy Act of 1974.
Steeplejack
@Miss Bianca:
I don’t have a Twitter account. You can look up anyone and read their comments by going to, for example:
https://twitter.com/hoarsewisperer
Just replace “hoarsewisperer” above with anyone’s @nym, e.g., Popehat, Zeddary, MollyJongFast, realDonaldTrump.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steve in the ATL: We all did.
RandomMonster
@Ladyraxterinok:
Did you spend some quality time in La Honda and the Santa Cruz Mountains? (I’m formerly a resident of those woods…)
Adam L Silverman
@Danielx: I understand. Pace yourself. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Adam L Silverman
@trollhattan: Graham.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Probably retweeted because Wikileaks keeps 1) teasing something and 2) flogging that a US government owned jet assigned to DOJ flew to London yesterday.
A Ghost To Most
@Adam L Silverman: More like guidelines than actual rules.
Mike in NC
No doubt Putin has been briefed on the report.
Steeplejack
@piratedan:
Heh, well played.
Jay
@Ruckus:
The only reason to join Twitter is to say something on Twitter.
You can read all the Twitter threads you want with out ever joining Twitter.
Tony Jay
@JWR:
What? No! I couldn’t do that! Betty just wants to use the ‘Why we ain’t Exited Brexit’ comment to explain to Americans how we Brits aren’t total nutters.
I am going to have a crack at explaining what the hell is going on with Brexit now that Europe has delivered its considered verdict on how crap Theresa May is. Hopeful? Doomed? Drugged and bundled into the back of a speeding car by some Russian guys who want Brexit to explain to Comrade Vlad how it screwed up his investment? We’ll see.
Anya
@Emma: I never expected that but I thought Junior and Jared we’re toast. Mueller didn’t even interview them. Not gonna lie, this made me depressed. I wanted that elephant murdering psychopath at least indicated.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike in NC: I’m sure it’ll come up in Trump’s next performance review.
Gelfling 545
@rikyrah: I always assumed that the This isn’t the country, etc was just a way of trying to appeal to certain racists by saying come on, we’re handing you an excuse here to at least pretend you’re not racist. Because, you know, calling racists racist makes them racist – or something.
Steeplejack
@lamh36:
Hmm, that tweet has disappeared.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Quasi-obligatory.
;)
Steeplejack
@Bobby Thomson:
Joyce White Vance has been a reliable commenter so far.
lamh36
@Steeplejack: check upthread…it was from 2010…so that’s likely why it was deleted
MomSense
@Brachiator:
I’m heartbroken and furious.
Steeplejack
@trollhattan:
It’s clear from the punctuation that it’s Graham.
reduces to:
Steeplejack
@lamh36:
Got it. Sometimes I comment as I go down the thread.
lamh36
I’ve never believed that Meuller’s report was gonna lead to and end of Trump’s presidency…I’ve always maintained that the only way Chump will leave office early, it would be cause he’s no longer breathing (i.e. hello Prez Pence)…or 2020 when we HAVE to vote him out. I hope everyone is ready and registered and got all they shit together. We’ve got 2 years to make sure all our ducks are in a row!
As for impeachment, Pelosi has already said, “he’s not worth it”. So short of devastating new, that even the Repubs can’t deny, I don’t expect impeachment proceedings.
What I hope is that “woke” Dems don’t go back to that bullshit harping about elected Dems not wanting to start impeachment proceedings…and focus instead on getting ready to vote the orange fuq’er out. Registering more of OUR voters…making sure EVERYONE has their ducks in a row. We already know the Russians are working up for 2020…and making sure we have the STRONGEST candidate we can get to take Chump down.
Dems needs to think one step ahead of them fuq’ers….and DON’T DEPEND ON TRYING TO CHANGE THE MINDS of Chump voters. If Mueller report truly doesn’t lead to anything then those deplorables will hold even faster to their ignorance and hunker down in support of Chump
Jay
BTDubs, New Zealand didn’t just ban semi automatics.
New Zealand and Austrailian ISP’s have blocked all access to 4chan, 8chan and other sites that posted the video. Not just the pages with the video, the whole sites.
Tony Jay
@Jay:
That’s a very good question. I’m no expert, and God knows the Leave campaign was beyond shady, but basically I think it’s because we have never had a Mueller type investigation growing out of counter-intelligence efforts already in place before the fateful 2016 vote took place. The existence of Mueller and his power to seek answers a) made the question of Russian collusion ‘real’ and non-partisan, and b) took the power to bury the whole thing out of the hands of the people who benefited from it. The investigation was happening regardless of how much Trump and Co disliked it, while here it was all dumped down the memory hole and the Media, including the BBC, just translated 17.4 million Leave votes into justification for whatever Leave may or may not have been up to.
So, probably, opponents of Brexit have had to ‘look forward, not back’ having made a judgement that any claims about the legitimacy of the Referendum would be used as evidence that they were just bad losers and conspiracy theorists. It won’t come out until after Brexit is binned, if at all.
Cheap Jim
@NotMax: “It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious middle temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the king-emperor.” Winston S Churchill.
Let’s not forget where the lines are.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Good.
JWR
@Tony Jay:
Heck, I’ve known you guys were nuts from the day you elected Theresa May, (or Tony Blair, or David Cameron, or John Major, or Maggie Thatcher, even!) But Brexit was the last damn straw!
In any case, I saved your comments from last night, (as I’ve saved others), in its own doc for future reference, and look forward to it being FP’d.
Ladyraxterinok
@RandomMonster: No. No car and no friends who had one and were interested in that type of excursion.
NotMax
@Cheap Jim
Oh for corn’s sake, no one was painting him as a role model. It was a nod to an apropos quote (which yours is not).
CarolDuhart2
@lamh36: Also, I’ve believed that a failed impeachment would be worse than no impeachment at all. Impeachment freezes everything else and makes it partisan- whereas investigations can continue until there’s a reason to stop.
Also such a move requires a Congress that’s not busily running against itself. The Republicans had theirs in 1998, when presumably any Republican running in 2000 would be immune from any potential blowback from the impeachment. And if someone wasn’t even in Congress at all, they would be even more immune.
Jay
@Tony Jay:
You’ve had a bunch of investigations with huge fines and censuring, there’s an ongoing criminal investigation,……… and yet,
Chirp.
The Guardian and the Independent mention it from time to time, but I’ve gotten more info on it from Canadian blogs than UK ones.
One would think that it’s a Brexit angle that Remainers would at least mention from time to time.
Raoul
@Adam L Silverman: This is just SCIENtology.
Tony Jay
@JWR:
It’s true, we have terrible, terrible taste in…. well, everything.
Makes bitching and moaning about it easier, and strangely satisfying. 8-)
Jeffro
I know it’s a stretch to read anything at all into this, but I am getting this mental picture of the SC’s investigation as a kind of insurance policy – necessary, given the president*s actions, of course – but something that would hopefully get some sort of investigation going to slow the trumpov crime cartel down…
…and they managed to keep it alive, to get Sessions to recuse, Rosenstein to hang in there…
…and then, the Dems won in 2018 and now have their own investigations going…
…and naturally the state investigations of all kinds are up and running, trumpov & co will never outrun those tax/fraud trials.
So rather than go the extra, incendiary step of indicting Jr and Jared, Mueller hands it all off to the various state agencies and AGs and whomever, drops this report that implicates the whole organization (accurately) as corrupt, and goes, “ok, Congress, your call”
zhena gogolia
I made the mistake of turning on PBS before Midsomer. Judy Woodruff just asked some idiot named Carrie Johnson what it meant that certain people hadn’t been indicted. She said something like, “Well, yes, and a lot of people wondered why Hillary Clinton hadn’t been indicted even though she did, as Comey said, a lot of bad things.”
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
The Maude translation edited by Amy Mandelker, with the Russian alongside. I have to read what the students are reading.
Aleta
*
debbie
Well, I’m depressed. While listening to BBC coverage of New Zealand (funerals, the Prime Minister’s words, women wearing hijabs in solidarity, and Maori haka) and had the sad realization that New Zealand has more of the American spirit than America does at this moment.
NotMax
@Aleta
As the late, great political reporter Jack Germond lamented, “We’re not paid to say ‘I don’t know. ‘”
JWR
@zhena gogolia: Oh God! I’d forgotten that The Snooze Hour is on in a bit. Wonder what Dumb & Dumber will have to say about all this?
Tony Jay
@Jay:
Oh you’re not wrong, it’s just that over here the lies told by Leave are ‘both sided’ by pointing out that the Tory fuckwits fronting Remain also made claims that, while nowhere near being lies, were not exactly iron-glad certainties. And the Leave campaign scattered like cockroaches once the campaign was over, they didn’t become the national Government.
Put it this way. If there hadn’t been a Mueller investigation shadowing Trump’s regime and digging into the shit that happened with the magical power of suopena, how hard and long do you think the Democrats would have gone after the whole collusion angle? Would the Media have given it time of day or used it as a club to beat the sad losers? Would any of the people involved seen a single day in court?
I don’t think so.
PsiFighter37
Y’all about to be heavily disappointed. That’s all I have to say.
PF37 +stopped counting
Mary G
@Tony Jay: Your comments have been so helpful, because every time I read about Brexit, it’s WTF are they doing? You explain it better than the newspapers here.
eemom
@Tony Jay:
I’ll say this for y’all: as far as I can tell, there is literally nobody in the UK (or anywhere else) who still supports Theresa May….much less any rabid, armed to the teeth legion of Maytards who would kiss her ass even as she shits on their face, like what we’ve got here.
Much as May may suck, she’s still not even in the same ballpark as trump — and yet here we are, facing a serious threat that he might be reelected.
NO other country can be as fucked up as that. It’s not possible.
lamh36
what does “principle conclusions” mean Adam.
lamh36
CarolDuhart2
Don’t go to Twitter tonight. Nothing but “the fix is in”, or disappointment that Trump isn’t doing a perp walk. First of all, it’s too soon, especially if no one knows what’s in the Report. Also, it occurred to me that there’s an institutional aversion to even looking like interfering with an election. Trying Trump isn’t something that can be done in a few days. Or Ivanka. Or Trump Jr. Mueller going down that road looks like that, especially as days go into weeks. Leave that stuff to state, local, and lower level investigators who aren’t running for office, and to Congress who can at least call witnesses.
Steve in the ATL
@PsiFighter37: how was your Atlanta B-J meet up?
Tony Jay
@Mary G:
You’re very welcome. Fingers crossed we’ll stumble drunkenly into a national rejection of the whole Brexit nonsense and wake the next morning feeling somehow spectacular.
Yes, I have been drinking. It’s Friday.
JWR
@Mary G:
Hear, here! This is why I always look forward to TJ’s comments.
Tony Jay
@eemom:
Translate May to McConnell and Brexit to Trump and see if it makes more sense.
Ruckus
@debbie:
I started out with a diatribe about our social fabric and that’s really not helping. We aren’t NZ in part because of the size of the country and our population. I live in LA county and we have a population of over twice that of New Zealand and a land mass almost 21 times smaller. It’s like it’s a different world. My sister asked me what I liked about my 3 week motorcycle trip there and I started naming off all the sights and ended up saying, “It’s the people.” Just a lot more serene, friendly. If I stopped to read a map, people would stop to make sure I wasn’t lost and could they help. Here they honk at you and tell you to get the fuck out of their way.
JWR
@lamh36: From your link, or from the preceding report:
Good grief! This has already been floated as a possible Trump defense in these here comments just today. Well, it ain’t over, and that fat lady has yet to *publicly* sing. Hell, we’re just getting started.
Ruckus
@Jay:
This is the reason that I don’t join in. I can read/lurk as much as I want without the possibility of making an ass of myself. Besides I have BJ for that.
AliceBlue
@JWR: Mr. AliceBlue is watching a panel on CNN and they’re basically saying this is a victory for Trump and the Republicans. I know they don’t know any more than anyone else does, but Jesus this is depressing.
Plato
Release just the principal conclusions? After all these months of drama? WTF?
Matt McIrvin
@JWR: So… it’s a great triumph that nobody in the administration was indicted for wrongdoing after the inauguration, in an investigation into stuff that happened BEFORE the inauguration?
PsiFighter37
@Steve in the ATL: Didn’t happen. Nobody expressed interest.
JWR
@Plato: No, don’t get depressed! Not yet! Just reading this thread should tell you that this is just one of many investigations, investigations for which Trump has no ability to pardon. So calm down, and keep reading BJ and accompanying comment threads. You’ll feel much better. ;-)
PS. I think you missed a closing > in your comment.
Steve in the ATL
@PsiFighter37: despite my nym, I wasn’t even in Georgia. Maybe next time.
JWR
@Matt McIrvin: Yep, that seems to be their argument, such as it is.
JWR
@JWR: That comment was directed to AliceBlue, not to Plato, just in case I caused any confusion. (Hey, can someone fix AliceBlue’s comment? There’s a missing closing tag.)
Matt McIrvin
@JWR: It’s similar to a tactic that the administration keeps using–persuade everyone in the conversation to reduce the whole galaxy of corruption here to a single charge of something nebulous called “collusion”, then assert that there wasn’t any so everyone is as pure as the driven snow. Here we have gloating that there were no indictments for something that the investigation wasn’t about in the first place.
AliceBlue
@JWR: Thanks. I don’t know how I messed up that comment.
I realize that there is much more to come, more investigations, etc. It’s just disheartening to see the media reaction, although I shouldn’t be surprised.
Hob
@Bobby Thomson: It clearly wasn’t finished.
@Bobby Thomson: he effectively was [fired].
What’s your basis for those statements?
Adam L Silverman
@JWR: I’ve been trying for five minutes, I have no idea what she did to that thing. And less idea how to fix it.
Brickley Paiste
@Hob:
First, I admit I ain’t got sources or hard facts on any of this, but …
Didn’t we see a filing the past week or so stating that Gates was continuing to cooperate in providing information and isn’t the Foreign-company-fighting-Mueller’s-subpoena still in the courts. And given public information, it seems there was ample grounds to prosecute Don Jr, Kushner, and a couple of others in at least perjury. And didn’t Mueller’s office make a very rare public statement in the past 10 or 15 days saying that reports that they were wrapping up were incorrect? Why make that statement if the conclusion was in sight. So in that sense it seems incomplete to me.
But, indeed, maybe that information has been handed off to SDNY or someone else and they’re going to announce indictments next week or something.
Raven
@Adam L Silverman: Fuck It And Drive On.
JWR
@Adam L Silverman: Hmm. I looked at the source, noticed the missing > and thought it would be a quick fix. Oh well. What Ruckus just said. ;-)
ETA: FIDO!
Adam L Silverman
@Raven: Pretty much.
Adam L Silverman
@JWR: I’m gonna go watch TV and play with the four foots. You all try to stay out of moderation while I’m gone.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Thanks. Always looking for tips on good translations. Back in the day it was all Constance Garnett.
MomSense
@Brickley Paiste:
I think they asked for a 60 day extension at the Gates sentencing just this week because there is a grand jury convened
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
Ann Dunnigan is good, but I think it’s pretty much out of print.
ETA: I like Constance Garnett too, but did she do War and Peace?
zhena gogolia
Wow, I guess she did. I never read that one.
AliceBlue
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know what I did either. I’m sorry!
Brickley Paiste
@MomSense:
Yeah, I think that’s right. I am not a defeatist here – there are plenty of good things that could still happen – but it does seem that the report was, at a minimum rushed. Feels that way given the expectations they were setting up over the past couple of weeks. No doubt they foresaw anything that Barr could do and took appropriate precautions so even if my lingering suspicions are right – that Barr pushed them to conclude or be disbanded – that might not really matter at all.
That’s the problem with gaslighting, you start to doubt even the obvious and when there is uncertainty, it just grows exponentially.
James E Powell
Of course CNN and the rest of the press/media will go all Revelations 13:4 over Trump. They love the guy. Even or maybe especially the people who go on every night and rant against him. He’s money in a way that Barack Obama never was and Hillary Clinton never could be. They are going to work very hard to get him re-elected so we have to work harder than we ever have before to make sure that doesn’t happen. There’s really nothing else we can do.
Bobby Thomson
@Hob: it clearly wasn’t finished because read the filings and look at the recent statements about them not being done. He effectively was fired because there’s no reason to file a “final” report when you’re not done unless you were ordered to.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
I’m not saying I liked Constance Garnett. It’s just that when I was reading the Russians in college it seemed like she owned the franchise. And even then (early ’70s) the translations seemed a little fusty. Dunno if she actually did War and Peace. She just springs to mind when I think “Russian translation.”
Sort of like I also intend to go back and read Proust, now that he has been released from the bondage of Scott Moncrieff. But there are competing translations now!
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Caught heck from a teacher for using what was then a fresh off the presses new translation of Beowulf for a book report back when.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
What was the objection? Not the same one used in class, so not a common reference for everyone?
NotMax
@Steeplejack
IIRC it was more like he hadn’t read it yet so could not fairly judge my report about it.
MomSense
@Bobby Thomson:
Yup. I think Barr shut it down.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
From the NY Times article
Sounds more like clutching at straws to me.
Aleta
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
They seemed pretty nervous for people who knew all along. Giulliani, Trump, DonJ …
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I also am sure that Barr shut it down. But as our legal experts here have pointed out for months, Mueller has always known that the order to kill it was going to come sooner or later from some political appointee and he put his investigatory horcruxes in place long ago in various states and jurisdictions.
So I guess we’re going to see those investigations waking up by Monday?
For those who prefer more classical references, perhaps the Hydra makes a good analogy. You cut off its head and it sprouts nine new ones.
I guess I’m saying I’m not worried yet that these clowns are going to get off scot free. The many shoes that are going to drop (to torture yet another analogy) are already 90% of the way to the ground and Barr is not going to be able to intercept them all.