Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

A tremendous foreign policy asset… to all of our adversaries.

Second rate reporter says what?

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

In my day, never was longer.

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

You are here: Home / Politics / America / Figured We Could Use a Clean Debate Thread: We Will Be, Like Jake Tapper, Moderating Your Comments For Time

Reader Interactions

263Comments

  1. 1.

    lamh36

    It’s not the “kid” that’s the issue, it’s the “go easy on me” when Biden’s camp have already articulated they plan to go hard on Kamala Harris and her health plan.

    It comes off as disingenous.

  2. 2.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    We Will Be, Like Jake Tapper, Moderating Your Comments For Time

    MY FIRST AMENDMANT RITES ARE BEING SUPPR

  8. 8.

    Quinerly

    @Baud: I have liked Biden so much the last few years. I just wish to hell he hadn’t run. Truly upsets me. I suspect Obama has feelings about this too.

  12. 12.

    misterpuff

    Biden’s gonna put Ins execs (that flooded America with opioids) in jail.

    That one is gonna be forgotten, I’m sure.

    C’mon Uncle Joe what about the Bankers?

  17. 17.

    lamh36

    @patrickgaspard
    Debate continues false choices on healthcare & shifts focus off what GOP is doing to. Good people will disagree on merits of best approach to affordable coverage for all. Focus on @CoryBooker point about existential fight to just keep most basic gains like preexisting conditions

    That healthcare segment was a mess…smh.

    I hope after the break Harris and Biden not take the bait that CNN is dangling in front of them to create tension.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    I don’t get why people think the candidates aren’t going to have a substantive debate.

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    After Bill de Blasio argued that Democrats needed to argue in favor of changing the status quo, Jake Tapper asked the New York mayor to clarify who he felt was falling short on that. De Blasio responded that Michael Bennet was being “absolutely inaccurate” about taxes.

    A civil uprising can’t possibly be any worse then this.

  25. 25.

    Quinerly

    TPM has its live feed up. Interesting. It notes that Twitter is saying Harris seems “wobbly.”
    I wouldn’t go that far, but she does seem a bit off her game. (and she’s my first choice)

  27. 27.

    opiejeanne

    What the fuck? Do they only get 60 seconds each? Just turned it on and they cut off Kamala Harris abruptly. .

  28. 28.

    TenguPhule

    @misterpuff:

    Biden’s gonna put Ins execs (that flooded America with opioids) in jail.

    That one is gonna be forgotten, I’m sure.

    And which judges does he think are going to cooperate with his cunning plan?

  34. 34.

    TS (the original)

    @Omnes Omnibus: As we found with Hillary, it is extremely difficult for women to come back against the put downs by men – without they are attacked for how they take it, how they cope, why not accept it and move on.

    He did it as a put down & it is nearly impossible to come back at him. I am not a Biden fan – guess that it obvious. He has achieved virtually nothing in politics other than support republican ideas. I think Obama chose him as VP thinking he could bring some republicans to the party (Senate friendships and all that) – and in that Biden was a spectacular fail.

  37. 37.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Quinerly: I don’t see her off her game. What I’m watching, and admittedly I’m about 20 minutes behind watching from the DVR, is she’s somewhere between frustrated and pissed with both the format and her fellow candidates.

  39. 39.

    Quinerly

    @Baud: I find it troubling. I was watching. Then switched to just listening. Really noticeable when just listening.

  43. 43.

    lamh36

    @CharlesMBlow
    14s14 seconds ago
    More
    Castro to Biden: “It looks like one of us has learned the lesson of the past, and one of us hasn’t.” #DemDebate

  47. 47.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @TS (the original): Well, to be honest, I don’t think she was rattled. The healthcare segment was a shit show. No one really came out of it well except Booker,

  50. 50.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    Everyone has a bad debate.

    Four times is not only enemy action, but political malpractice.

    /eyes CNN

  53. 53.

    lamh36

    Yang is so right here

    @mattdpearce
    36s36 seconds ago
    More
    Yang gets a big cheer when he says immigrants are getting “scapegoated” for manufacturing job losses that could be attributed to automation.

  57. 57.

    Quinerly

    @Baud: I think he is too. His head is shinier than Tulsi’s chest. I am told that could be a plus. ?

  61. 61.

    PsiFighter37

    So…how’s it going? It seems like Uncle Joe decided to bring a gun (or at least something bigger than a knife) to the fight tonight.

  69. 69.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Sean T at RCP @ SeanTrende
    Biden is making solid points but his stumbling over words is really noticeable on radio, probably less so on tv, definitely less so in the clips

    Daniel W. Drezner @ dandrezner
    Biden is much sharper in this debate than the last one.

    almost simultaneous tweets– I guess Trende is guessing about video being better than audio for Biden? but “probably” to “definitely” makes no sense

  74. 74.

    lamh36

    As someone said…Harris should just sit back and let Booker et al…lay into Biden…

    @cmclymer
    7s8 seconds ago
    More
    “Mr. Vice President, you can’t have it both ways. You invoke President Obama more than anyone in this campaign. You can’t just do it when it’s convenient.”

    — Cory Booker

    #DemDebate

  75. 75.

    opiejeanne

    @FelonyGovt: I’m impressed too. I was annoyed with him about the charter schools issue but that’s trivial compared to what’s at stake right now.

  77. 77.

    FelonyGovt

    @lamh36: He’s doing a great job of pushing back against both Biden and the stupid divisive questions from the moderators.

  78. 78.

    Ella in New Mexico

    I’m sorry to be the grumpy butt here, but I have found these 10-person debates with their ridiculous time limits and interruptions to be this close to useless. We really should have come up with a more creative way to give them more time to talk in depth, or to genuinely interact.

    No one is doing any better or worse than what my expectations are for them–I’ve only seen reinforcement of the headlines I’ve read or heard elsewhere, not insight into the candidate’s thinking.

    They all need to resume doing the personal campaigning stuff and wait for the fall to see who is more than 1%.

  80. 80.

    opiejeanne

    @Immanentize: I just tuned in so I missed Marianne. I am concerned about the quality of crystals we will have access to if she becomes president.

  82. 82.

    Leto

    Gabbard commercial playing: did you forgot I served? Here’s a 30 sec clip to remind you.

  85. 85.

    FelonyGovt

    @Leto: I’m glad I’m not really drinking every time Obama is mentioned or invoked. I’d be blotto by now.

  87. 87.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ella in New Mexico: Thank you for that response, but we’re moving to the next topic and please, with your next comment, try to answer the question.

    More seriously, you are absolutely right.

  88. 88.

    zhena gogolia

    What was Booker responding to when he told Biden he mentioned Obama more than anyone else?

  90. 90.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Charles P. Pierce @ CharlesPPierce
    The debate is now in an interesting place.
    How good a president was BHO in the first place?
    And Booker with the “shithole country”!!!!

    are they really going after Obama? Do any of them really imagine a campaign without him stumping for them? Not that I think he would hold back, but they’re just creating bad media for themselves

  91. 91.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Immanentize:
    I agree with both of you, and I know from experience that women have a fine line to walk to express entirely appropriate frustration without being accused of shrill bitchy overreaction. With a suggestion that it’s rooted in PMS in one cohort and menopause in another.

  100. 100.

    feebog

    Booker going after Biden on crime bill. Biden responding but I give the round to Booker.

  101. 101.

    FelonyGovt

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They’re not going after Obama, they’re just pointing out that Biden is simultaneously claiming credit for some things Obama did while distancing himself from other things.

  102. 102.

    Leto

    @Baud: As soon as I try, she interrupts me and says, “Did you know I served?”

    Booker bringing out Kool-Aid jokes!

  104. 104.

    zhena gogolia

    Is this just the Cory Booker show? They’re not asking anyone else anything?

  106. 106.

    Baud

    I think Inslee is having a good debate, but I don’t think he’ll get much of a bounce.

  112. 112.

    misterpuff

    Biden trying hard to take out Booker and Harris but they got landmines all around the VP and he’s running into every one like Sideshow Bob and the rakes.

  114. 114.

    opiejeanne

    @zhena gogolia: They startled Gillibrand when they called on her before the break. She was clearly not ready to answer the question. They’re creating a Biden show where everyone else is an extra. I want to hear Harris.

  119. 119.

    Socraticsilence

    Surprised no one hit Castro for his shot at Biden for flip flpping on the Crime Bill when he literally just defended his own flip flop on immigration.

  125. 125.

    opiejeanne

    @Baud: Jay’s a good guy but I don’t want our Favorite Son to be president. I am happy that he’s in the debates because his issue is climate change, and I want him to ignore the questions from the moderators and just pound away at climate change.

  130. 130.

    FelonyGovt

    More on the busing – rather than letting Kamala talk about criminal justice.

  135. 135.

    raven

    I have a friend who is a defense attorney in Berkeley and she fucking hates Harris.

  141. 141.

    PsiFighter37

    Turned it on and watched that exchange on racial profiling. Turned it right back off. Biden and Booker were literally talking right past each other and not answering either one’s question. Perhaps in my middle age, I am now understanding why so many people get so turned off by politics.

    I also think it really hurts Democrats that Tapper & co. are spending time on this instead of kitchen-table issues. It’s also a problem because the media views these to be priority issues for Democrats, when in reality they are not priority issues for the majority of the population (blunt but true).

  144. 144.

    opiejeanne

    @debbie: No, they’re letting him ramble.

    Oh wait, they finally just did cut him off. Kamala’s doing very well and I can hear the ragged edge of rage after her comments to Biden now.

  145. 145.

    Betty Cracker

    This debate sucks. Last night was far more enlightening, despite the crappy format.

  146. 146.

    jl

    Lotta ‘let’s you people’ fight questions.
    And still with the custom questions for each candidate. Which I think is dishonest, corrupt and irritating since we have to listen to the moderators babble. Candidates should be able to answer the same question.

  147. 147.

    misterpuff

    Tapper can’t stand up to the concentrated force of Kamala Harris impassioned speech.

  148. 148.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @Leto: We must prevent a strategic jojoba oil gap!

    Can ANYONE tell me what kind of milk is churned to produce Shea Butter? Is that what is used to make Booker’s head shine?

  157. 157.

    J R in WV

    @Baud:

    @raven:

    Biden’s a defense attorney.

    Don’t you mean Biden WAS a defense attorney? Cause that was a long, long time ago, and didn’t work out well for him.

  159. 159.

    Leto

    Gabbard: “Your reign as AG…” she’s a queen now? Weak ass attack, Russian asset.

  161. 161.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SRW1: I suspect by the fourth or fifth debate she’s simply going to hit him with a podium.

  165. 165.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @PsiFighter37: Perhaps in my middle age

    Did you turn 30, Whippersnapper?

    These debates are pretty bad, a crab pot. That’s why I’m opposed to the “DNC sanctioned climate debate”, just a bunch of people who generally agree trying to score points off each other, from the same “DNC debate” obsession cranks that brought us these clusterfucks.

    Have the LCV host fora, broadcast them on-line, have Chris Hayes host them with a couple other reporters and/or climate experts, not this horseshit-flinging circle

  169. 169.

    Miss Bianca

    @SRW1: You mean no Biden/Harris – or Harris/Biden – ticket is in the cards? Oh, say it ain’t so, Joe!

  170. 170.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: I agree. Lot of is moderators fault. Thought Tapper would be less insufferable.

    I think with time limits the moderators steering debate into murky details of legislators, DA’s etc. histories is not productive, just leads to conflicting claims, and accusations. But get some reality show drama and maybe some fat gotcha’s. Moderators should quit editorializing so much. Sure, Trump is a racist, but moderator in debate shouldn’t be putting that into the premise of a question.

    Let the League of Women Voters run them again.

    That’s IMHO.

  175. 175.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Seems like this crew fell for the “let’s you and him fight” bait more than last night’s, IMO. Maybe because last night everyone was able to unite in hatred of Delaney?

  177. 177.

    PsiFighter37

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes, that happened a while ago. Not news. Thanks for playing, though.

    And yes, these debates suck, but at least when you had Hillary v. Obama or Hillary v. Bernie, there was some meaningful meat and bones around it. Having 10 people shouting on stage is a joke and not even worth paying serious attention to, IMO, especially when the majority of folks on stage command the MoE in support.

  178. 178.

    Adam L Silverman

    @misterpuff: The problem is she should have had them do the same pancake makeup on the top of her chest as on her neck and face. Without it, she looks like she oiled her chest.

  179. 179.

    Gin & Tonic

    @japa21: Years ago I was on a domestic flight somewhere in the former Soviet Union on what seemed like a badly-maintained WWII-era prop plane where about half the passengers were guys in leather jackets with shaved heads and physiques kind of like Adam’s. My seat back didn’t hold position, and there was some odd chemical smell. In retrospect, I’m proud I didn’t wet my pants.

  182. 182.

    jl

    Did the moderators try to steer the debate into the racial justice issue the way they did just to get another big moment like they did in the last debate? They just got murky accusations and claims and counter accusation and counter claims.

    I think Lemon, like Tapper is editorializing too much, but fewer contrived premises for the questions, and he doesn’t babble so long as Tapper.

  183. 183.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    There are annoying parts, but I find it more substantive and less shouty. The moderator interruptions also seem less glaring.

    Neither debate will mean much though.

  187. 187.

    PsiFighter37

    @jl: Minor step up from when he was breathlessly reporting on the missing Malaysia Airlines plane for God knows how long. Don Lemon sucks, always has and always will. The bar for competence has been put through the fucking core of the Earth the past 3 years.

  188. 188.

    Adam L Silverman

    @japa21: Actually my massage therapist was actually, finally, able to create a little space. But I do have an 18 inch neck.

  191. 191.

    hilts

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I like the idea of having beat reporters asking questions related to their beat as opposed to these celebrity anchors. I’d also do away with opening and closing statements and for God’s sake get rid of this fucking live audience.

  192. 192.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Ben White @ morningmoneyben
    If Yang has accomplished nothing else he has struck a blow against the oppression of neck ties.

    Yang’s anti-tie? why isn’t he leading with this? I am now part of the Yang Gang, and I will not be moved.

  193. 193.

    Socraticsilence

    @Leto:

    Ehhh if people are going to hit Biden for his past in the Senate, Harris’s time as AG is fair game- I mean actually putting people in jail goes a bit beyond passing a bill along with the Congressional Black Caucus

  196. 196.

    Another Scott

    We’re watching [t]ennis, and I’m reading here and elsewhere. Wonkette’s live blog is pretty good.

    9:23: MODERATOR: Kamala Harris, do the busing fight with Joe Biden again.

    HARRIS: Uh, yeah, no. Joe Biden still won’t admit that he was wrong on busing and palling around with segregationists, despite how if those guys all got their way, Obama would have never made him vice president, and I couldn’t be a senator.

    We will find you a video, but she also addressed the Eric Garner situation, and the moderator tried to stop her and she pointed at the moderator and said “This is important!” and continued to speak for however fucking long she wanted to.

    Biden responds by saying kAmAlA iS A cOp!

    Harris says half her job as attorney general of California was fixing the results of the fucked up crime laws Joe Biden has his name on.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  197. 197.

    geg6

    @jl:

    Yeah, my reaction has been who knew Lemon is a thousand times smarter and savvier than Tapper? I sure as shit didn’t but it’s true.

  200. 200.

    Miss Bianca

    So, the only way I’ve been able to bear following this debate debacle is through y’all’s comments here. Do I understand correctly that the moderators instead of, in fact, moderating, are editorializing to their heart’s content on irrelevant bullshit, then stringently cutting off the actual participants when they try to answer the questions they finally get around to asking? And that they are not, contrary to all best practice, asking the same questions of each candidate?

  203. 203.

    Catatonia

    Inskeep (sp?). is bringing up stuff others aren’t. I really like him. Mental health etc. Everyone is agreeing with him so he obviously has no shot.
    KH is more than holding her own and is showing the steel that makes her the most dangerous candidate to Trump. Still my fav.
    On substance, Booker is really bringing it. He should be considered inner circle after this. Biden is Toast; his day has come and gone, and the avuncular charm don’t dot the I’s of the current political scene.
    My two pfennigs.

  204. 204.

    jl

    @hilts: Using beat reporters is a good idea. Regardless of their problems in the past, Tapper has been really irritating tonight. I think others are dong better.

  206. 206.

    zhena gogolia

    @Miss Bianca:

    They certainly don’t ask the same questions of every person. And they virtually say, “Okay, you, attack him/her!”

  208. 208.

    oatler.

    @hilts: That’s what they did in the previous debate, which gave us Chuck Todd, lately known for his Rick Scott interview.

  213. 213.

    Baud

    I think what’s missing from this debate is good humor. Booker just had a moment but in general, everyone seems stresses.

  216. 216.

    Mary G

    Despite the best efforts of the moderators, many of them have come up with good, thoughful points about different topics.*

    * Tulsi and Uncle Joe excepted.

  223. 223.

    misterpuff

    Gillibrand is still on the stage?

    She will have to Clorox the Oval Office because Drumpf will probably spontaneously explode if he loses to a woman and it will be messy in there.

  225. 225.

    jl

    @geg6: I don’t watch these celeb news actors enough to know who usually does a better job than the others or is smarter. But Tapper has been obnoxious tonight.

    I think Bash (right?) >= Lemon >> Tapper tonight, at least in terms of straight questions and giving the candidates time to talk.

    Edit: another overly elaborate question from Tapper that goes on forever.

  243. 243.

    BR

    Despite her other issues, Gillibrand might be a good advocate for the eventual nominee.

  244. 244.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto: Not my favorite form of sartorial expression, but often necessary in my line of work.

  247. 247.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @BR: No fucking way. She can seem sane for short periods of time, but the crazy eventually bubbles to the surface.

  248. 248.

    Adam L Silverman

    @oatler.: The really worst part of that interview was both Scott’s anti-factual comparison to Vietnam veterans and the fact that Todd didn’t know enough to push back, not that he ever would. What made Rick Scott’s comments so completely wretched was him explicitly stating that Cummings criticisms of BP officers, based on what Cummings has seen in the IG reports and other documents he’s seen as part of running the Oversight Committee, is the way returning Vietnam vets were treated. What we’ve got here is inaccurate American mythology masquerading as a historical comparison. All of the documented evidence that historians and sociologists have put together clearly indicates that 1) there is not one documented case of returning Vietnam veterans being spat upon and 2) almost everyone who gave them trouble for their service were either veterans from World War II or supporters of the war. In regard to the former, the myth of spat upon Vietnam veterans, especially by hippie (left wing) women, this is a recycle of the same reports that emerged from most of the losing states in World War I regarding how returning Soldiers were treated. It was also part of the creation of the Dolchstosslegende in Germany and these other states that contributed to the rise of fascism and extremist, racist nationalism between WW I and WW II. In regard the latter, the mythology is a strategy of disinformation, to change the discussion from the fact that veterans of earlier and more successful wars, specifically World War II, as well as non veterans who supported the war without question, were the ones making life unpleasant for the returning veterans because they were losing and, therefore, had somehow betrayed the Republic and earlier generations of veterans. This was especially problematic as generational support among veterans is often one of the key support networks for those returning from war. In this case, that support network was, instead, a network of abuse and degradation. Interestingly, most of the better histories about the aftermath of World War I show a similar dynamic in the losing states. Almost all of our documentation regarding interactions between returning Vietnam vets and hippies or the left indicate that members of those groups went out of their way to try to reach out to them and provide assistance.

    So not only is Scott a disgusting lickspittle, he’s simply ignorant of actual mid to late 20th century history.

  257. 257.

    Kay

    @Miss Bianca:

    Do I understand correctly that the moderators

    Jake Tapper asked Inslee why Washington’s public option didn’t save families “enough” money. The moderators standards for the healthcare options Americans DON’T have are very, very high. Inslee’s attempt didn’t save “enough”, as opposed to saving …nothing. Nothing is apparently better.

  259. 259.

    hilts

    @oatler.:

    If I had my way, only print journalists would serve as debate moderators. To me, the term “broadcast journalist” is an oxymoron. Broadcast journalists are simply actors impersonating real journalists. Phil K. Dick once wrote a story in which a tv anchor delivered the news dressed up as a clown, I think he was prescient because to me virtually all cable news hosts are fucking clowns.

  262. 262.

    Ramalama

    @Adam L Silverman: Do you have a source for this? My uncle knows military people from Harvard Kennedy school who had told him of first and experience if spittle, hippies, Vietnam nam. We go back and forth on things because we love talking to each other. I’d love to include this topic next time we meet up.

  263. 263.

    Ramalama

    @hilts: That’s a good idea. Could we also toss in Rick Perlstein to your wish list? Historian and author. He was on the Diane rehm radio show once and told one of the other, republican, guests that the republican was lying. He wasn’t rude about it but wanted to challenge him on it. Rehm shut that down because it violated cocktail party Bon-vivant rules. Was never asked back on her show.

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