Sure, there are mental health issues, and also the President encouraging white supremacists.
BUT MAYBE IT’S ALSO ALL THE FUCKING GUNS???
Reader Interactions
116Comments
Comments are closed.
Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.
Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.
They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.
Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.
You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.
Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.
Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.
You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.
Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.
Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.
75% of people clapping liked the show!
Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
After dobbs, women are no longer free.
Washington Post Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.
A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.
If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.
Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.
A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.
I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.
This blog will pay for itself.
Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.
Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.
Let’s not be the monsters we hate.
Mike in DC
I wait with bated breath to discover the motive of the Dayton shooter. If it’s another white supremacist that will be 3 in a single week.
And, yeah, your gun collection won’t keep your family safe from the next mass shooter.
MattF
Could be. But there’s still the dreary task of assigning moral responsibility.
Cheryl Rofer
Americans own 42% of the world’s guns.
p.a.
They’re so wedded to their fucking guns they’ll even advocate socialized medicine (free national psych screening & counseling) contra their whole outlook just to keep from having any controls on their e.p.o.d.
rikyrah
His legally obtained weapon of death???
Ajabu
Ya think? Maybe when you get all the crazy ass wypipo to give up their guns they could take away racism while they’re at it?
Walker
@Mike in DC:
J.J.McNabb is saying not so fast on the Gilroy shooter. That one seems to be more complicated and hard to put in an ideological box.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
This shit is getting old. And we aren’t going to do a damned thing about it.
geg6
I’m starting to think guns are the symptoms and white males are the disease.
RAVEN
@Walker: “Authorities have been uncertain about whether extremist views played a role, after messages emerged that the teen posted to his Instagram shortly before the shooting, one of which encouraged people to read a 1980 white supremacy manifesto, and a second post referring to the local festival.
But it did not appear that he focused the gunfire on any particular group, the investigator added, according to the police”
Yea, and the El Paso dude only killed 3 Mexican Nationals so his motivation is unclear?
BC in Illinois
No way to prevent this.
SFAW
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Last night, during one of the reports on El Paso, I heard someone say something to the effect of “Maybe now Congress will do something about gun control.” I guess that person believed it to be true.
I was just ruminating about what it would take to get Congress to do some substantive, and thought that it would take (god forbid) a Newtown massacre, every day, until they did something. Then I came back to reality, and realized that even something as horrific as that would not get Traitor Turtle and the rest of the RWMFs to change.
Sab
@Walker: Do disgruntled white male adolescents actually have an ideeology, or just a random collection of issues?
debbie
@geg6:
You could be right.
As I shriek-emailed Senator Portman this morning:
Baud
@SFAW:
They won’t change until they are cast out in the political wilderness for several years. I’ve been saying that since before Trump.
SFAW
@Baud:
So, in other words, never. [Or the functional equivalent of “never.”]
SFAW
@debbie:
Excellent letter. I hope he doesn’t ignore it, but it’s Ohio, so …
Baud
@SFAW:
Possibly. It depends on which set of voters has more perseverance and dedication.
Cheryl Rofer
Jinchi
Jesus, I didn’t realize until I started reading the comments that we’re already talking about the next mass shooting since El Paso.
A Ghost To Most
Yes, it’s all the fucking guns, but it’s religion and other bullshit philosophies that convince people to pick up a weapon in the first place.
Admit the real problem.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
Who knows? He may have something thoughtful after finishing his round of golf. //
debbie
@A Ghost To Most:
No, it’s hate and anger and having the guns to fulfill a wish.
MattF
@geg6: Race and gender obviously have something to do with it. But the fundamental issue is that there are individuals who worship at the altar of human sacrifice.
Gelfling 545
#moscowmitch had a post on Twitter about the first responders going into harm’s way. Told him – or whoever actually reads the stuff, if anyone does – that he didn’t care one whit about first responders or he’d try to keep them from having to be in harm’s way so frequently. Asked what he’s going to do for next week’s victims who are probably being selected as we speak.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@debbie: Motive + stirred up emotion + weapon of war
And of course the shooters are mentally unwell. Nobody who commits mass murder is well. But without the other factors, they wouldn’t be slaughtering the rest of us.
Kay
The NRA is reeling. They’re collapsing in a heap of corruption and fraud and theft. That’s a hugely positive development.
Baud
@Kay:
In states where Dems have power, they’re taking action against guns. The problem at the federal level is entirely about GOP control.
TS (the original)
So the people interviewed on MSNBC are thanking the first responders, thanking the police, the hospitals etc etc – but of course they won’t speculate on immigration or guns or anything else. Some idiot reporter said they were waiting for trump to address the issue & of course he would talk to the media – he often does.
Jesus wept & then he wandered off into the wilderness.
chopper
jesus, i just can’t. this fucking place.
chopper
@Baud:
likewise, state action restricting gun ownership doesn’t work very well when the red state next door hands them out like fucking candy.
ThresherK
Tangent: If you’re ready for a non-topical respite, Jim Jeffries was in a great little FX series called Legit, starring along with DJ Qualls and Dan Bakkedahl. It’s been wrapped up for several years, but may be available online.
germy
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Yes it is. They’ve been on the ropes since Parkland, despite Republican control of government. It’s understandable that folks are cynical, but things are shifting in real and measurable ways.
Kay
@Baud:
It is. Obama got 57 votes in the senate after Sandy Hook. Given the completely unrepresentative nature of the senate that’s a huge majority.
I think some of the gun stats make people hopeless too. The gun owners with multiple guns jack that “how many guns in America?” stat up. I see it in estates. It’ll be “no guns, no guns, no guns, then 22 guns”.
Gun control is popular. It’s a majority position. It’s also more popular since 2012, not less popular. We’ve seen movement even in the Democratic Party on it- they’re less afraid of it as an issue.
Baud
@chopper:
Absolutely. Federal action is needed. I’m just saying the problem is solvable if enough of us stay committed to supporting the non-fascist party.
Baud
@Kay:
Yes. The rhetoric has noticably shifted in the last five years.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Labeling this as “mental illness” allows many to think it refers to other people, not oneself. But because it’s anger, everyone has the capability. Mental health programs will be useless and a waste of time.
ETA: Redefine mental illness then. Right now, the majority of people see mental illness as someone walking down the street, babbling to themselves.
RepubAnon
Remember the guy who sold the Gilroy shooter an assault rifle?
This is the fundamental issue with these gun pushers: they really think they can spot someone “suspicious” just by looking at them… and they also don’t think they’re prejudiced. I’m guessing they’d refuse to sell to anyone who didn’t look like a Young Republican.
germy
@RepubAnon:
Yes. He was happy because he was successfully stockpiling an arsenal.
debbie
@Kay:
You must not have read their Twitter feeds this morning, then. Same old, same old.
germy
germy
I think the blame should be placed directly on video games. After all, we're the only country in the world with video games.Ceci n est pas mon nym
@chopper: And yet we have fireworks laws that vary from state to state. Nobody is throwing up their hands and saying we should drop all those because it’s pointless.
We have many laws that vary state to state that people near borders bypass. Pass the laws anyway.
Everything counts.
Maybe someday we’ll cure the NRA disease at the federal level. Meanwhile let’s work on the states. Including (especially?) those that have NRA-driven laws preventing municipalities from passing laws.
Walker
@RAVEN:
J.J.McNabb specializes in white extremists. While that tract is popular with white nationalists, apparently that shooter has said and done things that contradict that tract.
schrodingers_cat
Supreme court watchers, when did the conservative justices invent the rationale, that second amendment meant an individual right to own guns? Does anyone have the statistics of gun deaths before and after that ruling.
JPL
@germy: What about those in Dayton?
germy
@JPL: They get his blessings, as well. (Okay, that tweet takes care of everything, now it’s off to the golf course)
debbie
@JPL:
That specific tweet was from last night @ 9pm.
MazeDancer
If you want to know more about 8chan, this thread by someone who studies it, is essential.
https://twitter.com/gwensnyderphl/status/1138824225421238272?s=21
It is radicalization of white boys just like ISIS radicalized young guys online. Except 8chan is right out in plain site. And white boys in US have easy access to AK killing machines. And a white supremacist in charge.
We also need pushback. Just like Muslims were chastised for not policing themselves, we need a deprogramming group of strong white men bringing these boys back from the edge.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@germy: Doubly pointless. A pointless generic “thoughts and prayers” tweet probably assigned to an anonymous junior staffer, and T won’t even know he supposedly said it unless a Fox idiot mentions it.
Ohio Mom
@Jinchi: Yup. This shooting was in Dayton Ohio’s gentrified downtown drinking district.
(Okay, it isn’t all that snazzy but it is as gentrified as Dayton, which very rust belt, gets.)
Kay
@debbie:
Well, which twitter feed? This is Sherrod Brown’s:
Sherrod Brown is as much an Ohio senator as Rob Portman. Portman isn’t more representative or more legitimate. I don’t know why we insist on handing them this “real American” designation. It’s bad enough they took it and convinced all of media it’s true. We’re going to agree?
Jinchi
@RepubAnon:
Not to defend this idiot, but are dealers allowed to reject a gun sale just because they think someone looks crazy?
I only ask this, because I know Republicans have been working for years against any attempt to solve the problem.
Like this one:
So if there’s a mass shooting in Tucson and the police seize the lunatic’s arsenal, they’ll have to put all those weapons back on the market so that the next lunatic can get the full value of them.
That bill was passed just a few months after the Sandy Hook massacre.
Kay
@germy:
The “blessings” have gone from annoying me to enraging me. Just say nothing. They obviously don’t care enough to do anything so why bother to utter this sentence? The NRA POURED money into Trump’s election. He’s their boy. That’s a fact. He never gave a rat’s ass about guns until they purchased him. Why does Abbott bother to show up? To lead a prayer service? We don’t need government officials for that. They’re reduced to being a clean up crew that arrives after a mass slaughter. We could hire a contractor to do the same job. They can all go home.
dmsilev
@schrodingers_cat: “District of Columbia vs. Heller”, aka the Heller Decision. Here’s the summary from Wiki:
2008, Antonin Scalia writing the majority decision. No idea about the statistical question you asked, but that’s the legal inflection point.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Princess Complicity has weighed in on Twitter:
There’s that famous “moderating influence” in action!
debbie
@Kay:
Dana Loesch, the ex-mouthpiece who still tweets what NRAers feel:
responding to
WereBear
Because it is.
Social revolution creating circumstances where their free ride is over. Blatant exposure of how much corruption lets us be ruled by the craven and the mediocre.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
At least she writes better. //
Eunicecycle
@debbie: very well said. I woke up this morning to my daughter who lives in Dayton texting she was okay and my brother texting to see if she is okay. Portman is one of the highest recipients of NRA $ so we all know he will do nothing.
debbie
@Kay:
Portman IS the problem. His inaction and unwillingness to provide anything more than pablum statements makes him so.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
She’s a caricature of a horrible, vapid rich person. I don’t feel responsible for that- it’s not my fault she was swaddled in a cocoon of nonsense and bullshit and lies since birth. Everything she says is like this- a collection of carefully curated words that add up to saying nothing. I think it’s a shame she goes to public schools and speaks to a captive audience. What an absolute waste of their time.
kelly sanders
@Jinchi:
same
germy
thread:
WereBear
Yes!
germy
Kay
@debbie:
Right, and I’m sorry I was short with you. It drives me crazy when WE portray them as this permanent majority. They do enough of that without our help.
The truth is they’ll act if this starts affecting commerce, and not before. If people stop going out and spending money. Then they’ll act. Guns are only a secondary god. They manipulate the yahoos to get those tax cuts. It’s always, always about money.
debbie
@Kay:
Kay, we are all (and should be) short this morning.
germy
Jinchi
@germy:
The target was families, just as Trump’s ICE deportation raids were targeted at families, just as the child separation at the border were intended to target families.
kelly sanders
@WereBear:
Scalzi explains it well here
https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
Bill Arnold
@germy:
Fixed that for you, GE DJ Trump!
FelonyGovt
I am feeling impotent rage this morning. I can only hope the righteous fury and collective outrage will help us overthrow these monsters next year.
WereBear
@kelly sanders: Yes, a classic.
debbie
@germy:
If it’s like here, it was a tax-free back-to-school weekend. Guaranteed to draw crowds.
B.B.A.
White men are 30% of the population, but responsible for something like 98% of all mass shootings. So why not just ban white men from owning guns?
(Yeah, yeah, unconstitutional, whatever.)
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost To Most: Fine. Let’s admit the real problem. The real problem is WHITE MEN AND THEIR ENDLESS SUMMER, SORRY, WINTER OF DISCONTENTS AND GRIEVANCES. But until we can legislate THAT out of existence, maybe fucking admit that legislation controlling the sheer number of guns and ammo that they have access to in order to exercise that sense of grievance might count down on the body count?
Jesus, I can’t even with the douchiness any more. The douchiness of “guns only exacerbate the real problem” is just the next step in rationalization from “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
@Baud: In states like Colorado where Dems have power, they exercise the tiniest amount of gun control and the shrieking flying monkeys of the GOP immediately start recall petitions for them.
Steeplejack
@MazeDancer:
That Gwen Snyder thread (and her other ones that she links to) is excellent. Lots of specific detail, and it does a great job of explaining the alt-right nuts’ use of that “Ha-ha, stupid normie, we were just joking (but not really)” ruse. ?
chopper
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
i’m not saying drop anything. we need people in those red states to do something, and we need action at the federal level. god, we need so many things.
Ksmiami
@geg6: yep keep the guns and kill off the racist white men
Dr Ronnie James DO
Australia did something in 1996, and it drastically reduced mass shootings and also suicides (90% of suicide attempts with a gun are “successful,” much higher than other means). Australians still manage to own guns, hunt and do other Manly Man Gun Stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_of_Australia
IIRC they banned assault rifles and restricted calibers that could be offered for sale. They also mandated buybacks if prohibited weapons, and instituted a registry, which NRA propaganda paints as one of the Seven Signs of the Apocalypse (up there with VIN numbers, I guess). Imagine having to register, insure and have a valid license proving you can responsibly operate an implement that kills with ease!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_of_Australia
Percysowner
Well I just spent a fun half hour. Yesterday my daughter, son-in-law and my granddaughter went to a party in Dayton. I knew they were nowhere near the shooting, but the 30 minutes that they didn’t return my texts had me worried. They’re fine, but DAMN! What if they had decided to stop at my daughter’s favorite restaurant in Dayton, the one in the Oregon district? In a few years, my granddaughter will go to school and I don’t want to spend every day waiting to hear whether or not some nut decided to shoot up her grade school. Time to start bombarding Senator Useless Portman and time to start thanking Sherrod Brown for not being useless.
Buckeye
I guess there’s nothing more American now than waking up and finding out that the neighborhood a 10 minute walk away is the scene of yet another mass shooting.
God Damn America.
JanieM
@dmsilev: An article about the statistics.
Mnemosyne
And yet a fellow commenter called me a racist on this very site last week for pointing out that having too many fucking guns is making matters worse and told I should stop being a “Becky” living inside a sheltered bubble. ?
debbie
@Buckeye:
Google Maps tells me my mother grew up 3.8 miles from the shooting site. She’d be beside herself at the news.
Mnemosyne
@Buckeye:
I feel slightly guilty for throwing it in that other commenter’s face last week that I was in California and he was safely out of the way of the latest mass murder in … Ohio. ?
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Whoever that was learned that crap at the Knee of Distraction (aka Donald Trump).
Bob
In the event that nobody’s going to do anything about the current situation about gun violence. It’s pretty damn simple, the Wyatt Earp method, (or the old town tamers method if you will); you post the bullet ridden no firearms in the town limits sign on all the roads leading into town. Choices, you give up your gun, or you get cracked in the head, your gun confiscated and you get dragged to jail or you get shot for carrying a gun in town. No if and or buts. You shoot somebody you get hanged. And if he was able Doc Holliday might assist. (There were always some extenuating circumstances to carrying out the law)
I ain’t kiddin’ neither.
“guns are made for killing they ain’t good for nothing else.” “So why don’t we dump ’em people To the bottom of the sea Before some ol’ fool come around here Wanna shoot either you or me.”
I’ve been a reader for a long time. Would have continued to keep my mouth shut but this shit is getting pretty freaking old.
Feel free to tell me to keep my damn mouth shut. But it’s too late now.
dimmsdale
@p.a.: I get where you’re coming from, except this: let’s say we wave a wand and suddenly have mental health screening nationwide dedicated to sniffing out potential mass shooters. Given the profiles of mass shooters so far (let’s focus on their gender and their politics) does anyone here, or anyone in the Western Hemisphere, or anyone in our galaxy for that matter, ACTUALLY think right-wingers are going to sit still for having right-wingers profiled and disarmed? You’re going to hear caterwauling about not only 2nd amendment rights, but 1st amendment rights as well. (“He was just sayin his piece, like the constitushun says!”)
For that matter, has anyone seen concrete proposals for shooter-focused mental health screening from ANYONE on the right? They sure do talk about it–but where’s the program? (you don’t suppose citing “mental health issues” as the primary focus for fixing mass shootings might be, oh I dunno, a cowardly, cynical deflection with absolutely nothing to back it up?)
I fail to see any reason not to roll right over the relatively small slice of gun-owners (including the self-styled ‘responsible’ ones) and pass sensible laws on background checks, limited-size magazines, and so forth). If that excites some sort of armed militia response, well–we have SWAT teams to deal with that.
ETA: It occurred to me earlier today that I may need to up my situational awareness of things like where the exits are, what to do if I hear a “pop pop pop”, where cover is in a location I’m in, etc. Sad but true. Stay safe everyone!
Steeplejack
@kelly sanders:
That’s an excellent piece!
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
It was a longtime commenter, which is why I was extra pissed at his utter blind idiocy. ?
Mnemosyne
@dimmsdale:
IMO, I think the last few years are proving that the 1st Amendment and the 2nd Amendment are incompatible. You can’t have true freedom of speech when some people decide that they can shoot other people for speaking their minds.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Ah, the rashness of youth!
J R in WV
@Walker:
No. No, it isn’t complicated. Shooter –> white supremicist / fascist.
Ruckus
@A Ghost To Most:
@debbie:
Ghost is right. Debbie is right.
It is hate. And it is people whose philosophies are that they – some grouping of people – are better for some unknown reason and have to protect with any means possible, that group from other groups. That’s hate and it’s specific hate. Immigrants. Or black people. Or muslims. Or Mexicans. Or – insert bullshit here.
It’s being told for a couple hundred years that we are better than other countries.
It’s being told for a couple hundred years that we are a better government than others.
It’s being told for a couple hundred years that we are smarter than other countries, races, colors.
And it’s the white people being told that, by other white people.
And given that other countries are smart enough to ban the guns, and we don’t seem to catch on to that simple answer, it’s obvious that we’ve been lying to each other for over two hundred years. At least some of us anyway.
The haters can’t even read the amendment that talks about guns and get the answer that the founders told us. Is it about the hate or the money to be made from guns? Is it both? Is it the money that the gun lobby and the haters have pumped into politicians to protect their playthings of death? Maybe it’s all three. Is it the republican party which has been the party of hate, racism and money for my entire life? I think I know this answer, it’s all four.
There is more to life than hate and money.
We all have the emotion of hate in ourselves, it’s part of life. We don’t have to let it control us, that’s a disease like alcoholism, a disease of abuse.
We do need a certain amount of money, never in the history of the world has there been a society that doesn’t value some things over others. A decent home to retire to at the end of a day of work. Work that isn’t just about money, a job that uses some skill we posses so that our lives can have some small purpose, other than just breathing. Friends to share the joys and yes the sorrows of life, and the passing of time.
How does this sound so far?
I didn’t notice guns in there anywhere. Maybe they really aren’t necessary for day to day life.
mrmoshpotato
@FelonyGovt:
Been feeling that for the past 3 years.
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost To Most: We can’t fix assholes, but we can do something to keep them from killing shitloads of people with virtually military grade weapons.
dimmsdale
@Mnemosyne: Yeah. One thing ‘we the people’ MUST do is take back the Supreme Court and re-litigate Heller. Drawing some sort of bright line between the First Amendment and the Second might not be necessary if we can do that.
Ruckus
@kelly sanders:
Typical Scalzi. Very good.
I like that a number of commenters seem to always overlook some part of the setup if they think it doesn’t help them, irregardless of the obvious part, that it does.
Mr Stagger Lee
@chopper: Which is how I explain “Chicago” to some of my RWNJ friends.
debbie
@Ruckus:
This is the bottom line on my argument over the Second Amendment. The Founders would never have thought about protecting individuals’ right to own guns. How else were people supposed to get their food (meat, specifically)???
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie:
Farms?
sigyn
@Mnemosyne: Yeah… You didn’t exactly cover yourself with glory in that discussion. If I were you, I wouldn’t be reminding people about it.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not everyone had a farm, and not every farm was a money-making operation. Most of the country was still wilderness.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie:
People, even in cities, tended to keep chickens, a milk cow, and maybe a pig or two. People could buy from farms that produced more than need for simple subsistence. In towns and cities there markets where foodstuffs were sold. Oddly enough, the parts of the continent that were wilderness did not have many white people living in it.
This is a pretty good summary of hunting and gun ownership in colonial times. Don’t buy into the NRA hype that most colonial settlers were Daniel Boone.
Ruckus
@debbie:
Yes the world has changed dramatically over the last 200 yrs. Far more than the founders could have realized, industrialization hadn’t really started and is what has changed the world. We could debate better or worse forever but the bottom line is that for a good portion of the world’s population, industrialization has made life better. It’s made medicine better. It’s made food production better, arguably maybe/possibly, but absolutely more productive. We create more food with fewer people than ever before. And industrialization has made our day to day lives, at least different. You can carry a phone that can connect you to people who 10 -20 yrs ago couldn’t have any phone at all. You can access information that 20 yrs ago mostly didn’t even exist in a form that could be searched for and seen in seconds. You can carry a camera in your pocket that takes better pictures that can also be transmitted in less than seconds than a lot of professional film cameras could. Is this world better? Only time will tell but I’d bet the consensus is yes. But we in this country still lives with concepts that define a way of life that hasn’t been the norm in the lifetime of anyone still breathing. Specific concepts that helped to formulate this country. Free speech and guns. Of course it’s extremely possible that the founders didn’t foresee the ways that those rights have transformed into something different than what they intended. They created a way for things to change and over time we have. But many don’t think those changes can possibly be what the founders expected, even though the system of change was a major piece of the puzzle. The founders may not have been able to foresee the world of today, but they could see that the world wouldn’t be the same one they lived in and some things would have to change. Slavery is a case in point. Equal rights for every being was not what they wrote, but it is a far better system. Inclusion is far different than exclusion where humans are concerned because our differences are minor compared to our similarities.
Conservatives want the past because it benefited them.
Liberals want the future because it can benefit all of us.
J R in WV
@sigyn:
You can’t even smell glory from where you’re posting.
J R in WV
@Ruckus:
I have a good friend, in the generation born around 1980, who grew up on a rural farm. But his parents had major problems, dad was lazy, mom was crazy. He usually put supper on the table with a .22, taking rabbits and squirrels, ignoring seasons to keep the family fed.
Now he’s a water pipeline contractor, with a great wife and kids, a huge repair shop for the equipment, and union employees. He started out as a member of the laborers union on construction sites, thanks to another neighbor who worked construction.
Hunting for meat in poor rural families is a huge part of the diet still today; they also forage in the forest for mushrooms and fruit and nuts, as well as profitable herbs like ginseng.
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
I do understand. They do exist, they will continue to exist for a long time.
But this is not nearly the number of people who shop in grocery stores for food. Or the percentage of people around the country who used to do this regularly, even when you and I were kids. As I said my grandmother used to raise chickens for food, 60+ yrs ago, in south central LA. I’ve watched her wring a chicken’s neck, pluck and dress that chicken and cook dinner. It was some of the best chicken I’ve ever eaten. My other grandmother used to cook rabbit, because it was cheaper to buy than chicken. So I’ve eaten rabbit as well. It was also great. But try and find rabbit in a store today. Live in or near any big city and chances are pretty good you won’t be raising chickens for your own dinner. Even when I lived in OH, and I left 14 yrs ago, the number of people who hunted for food was dramatically less than it was 50 yrs before. Like a lot of other things we do in modern society, it isn’t necessary so most people don’t do this. Talking about my time in OH, I had a coworker who invited me to a pig roast on his farm. Not that he did any farming but it was cheap property not that far out of town and the only way to make farming profitable would have been to lease out his farmable land. This was a home with an old crappy build house on it that he could buy cheap and sort of fix up. Real cheap. Which suited him to a tee. I spent 31 yrs working in professional sports. Over half of that was traveling around the country, seeing a lot of rural areas, including WV. I’ve been to every state except Maine, North and South Dakota and Alaska. I understand that not everyone lives like I do or would even want to.
Mnemosyne
@sigyn:
Yes, I live in a tiny protected bubble where the worst that can happen is that I’ll be randomly murdered in public by a white supremacist, unlike the harsh reality where non-white people can be randomly murdered in public by a white supremacist. I mean, how dare I compare those two possibilities as if they were in any way similar, amirite?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I think that the two of you were talking past one another that day. Your point, which was valid, was that no civilian really needs military grade weaponry. His point was that white supremacists seem to have them and white supremacists have specifically targeted AA people and neighborhoods in the past. From that, it is not unreasonable to think they might do it again. He was saying that, based on this, AA should be armed and that they would be dumb to disarm before the racists do. It is not an argument that furthers efforts toward gun control, but it ain’t dumb either.
Procopius
@RepubAnon: I think the same thing is true about background checks. Has anybody looked to see if any of the terrorists would have been unable to purchase a gun because of failing the background check? I think the background check is like the TSA in the airports. Pure theater to make people think, “We’re doing something.” I’m in favor of passing the law just because it would make a lot of people feel better for a little while, until they realized we’re having even more mass shootings.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thanks for the link.
sean
@Walker: eco identitarian is the box. It’s actually a thing.