From the locked-down megalopolis, per NYMag — “The City’s One-Percenters Flee the Rest of Us to the Hamptons”:
… For those who could afford it — like the rich who fled plague-stricken Florence in the Decameron — salvation, it seemed, might be reached by the Long Island Expressway. Or at least space, and possibly social distance from their social inferiors. Doorman buildings all over New York had SUVs lined up out front, lifeboats against an invisible virus. Towns, just waking up from their winter hibernation, were caught unawares. The Stop & Shop in East Hampton was out of organic lettuce and the Cumberland Farms in Southampton out of firewood. And suddenly the short-term rental market was as hot as August…
“I just had an eight-bedroom house on the waterfront,” says Ms. White, “never rented before. A renter wanted $200,000 for eight weeks. The landlord came back and said ‘How about $750,000?’ I told my client and he said, ‘Fine. We’re on our way out.’” The competition is fierce. Ms. Breitenbach recalls, “I just got outbid in a bidding war for an unlisted house renting for eight weeks. We offered $300,000. Two hours later they had a $400,000 offer.”
Meanwhile, even as demand is up, supply is down. “A lot of people who usually rent [out their houses in the summer] are not going to Europe,” explains Bonnie Aarons, a broker with Douglas Elliman. “This creates a shortage.” And not everyone can capitalize on it.
“I just got a call from a real-estate broker asking whether I’d rent out my place,” says the author Steven Gaines, a long-time Hamptons resident and author of Philistines at the Hedgerow: Passion and Property in the Hampton. “I said, I’d love to but I’ve got nowhere else to go.”
(Sidebar: I had not known that, according to NYC law, doormen are considered ‘essential workers‘ during this pandemic.)
It’s all fun’n’games, until the proles realize where the richest, softest targets are. From the NYPost, “‘We should blow up the bridges’ — coronavirus leads to class warfare in Hamptons”:
… “There’s not a vegetable to be found in this town right now,” says one resident of Springs, a working-class pocket of East Hampton. “It’s these elitist people who think they don’t have to follow the rules.”
It’s not just the drastic food shortage out here. Every aspect of life, most crucially medical care, is under strain from the sudden influx of rich Manhattanites panic-fleeing, bringing along their disdain and disregard for the little people — and in some cases, knowingly bringing coronavirus.
The Springs resident says her friend, a nurse out here, reported that a wealthy Manhattan woman who tested positive called tiny Southampton Hospital to say she was on her way and needed treatment.
The woman was told to stay in Manhattan.
Instead, she allegedly got on public transportation, telling no one of her condition. Then she showed up at Southampton Hospital, demanding admittance.
“Someone else took a private jet to East Hampton and did not tell anybody ’til he landed,” the resident says. “That’s the most horrendous aspect. The virus is already here, and we don’t have any medical resources.”
“We’re at the end of Long Island, the tip, and waves of people are bringing this s–t,” says lifelong Montauker James Katsipis. “We should blow up the bridges. Don’t let them in.”…
Here’s something that never gets mentioned or seen in coverage of the Hamptons, whether it’s the news or gossip columns or “Sex and the City” reruns: There are actually poor people who live here. There are three trailer parks (one, of course, is already going luxury). There are food pantries for the needy, and that includes schoolkids.
Normally, the haves and the have-nots converge only in summer, and everyone plays their parts. No more..
The offseason, October through June, is sparsely populated and can be very isolating. During that time, local grocers only stock food and supplies for a severely reduced population. There is no FreshDirect, no Whole Foods, no door-to-door food delivery.
Most year-rounders don’t have the ability to drop, as The Post reported, $8,000 in one shot at gourmet grocery Citarella, or import hundreds of pounds of meat as another overlord just did, then stash their hoard in the extra brand-new freezers they just bought…
As of last weekend, SoulCycle and Flywheel were packed, as were bars, restaurants, clothing stores and coffee shops. As of Monday, “there was a line out the door at [East Hampton restaurant] Mary’s and Starbucks,” says the Springs resident. “If you’re going to make such a hoopla over leaving the city and hoarding your food, why not stay in your million-dollar mansion on the waterfront? Don’t go to Starbucks! I’m sure you have a coffeemaker.”
Last weekend, Albronda says, “there were a couple of restaurants so overcrowded that the police had to come and thin them out. No one’s taking this as seriously as they should be. They’re just being selfish. If this disease spreads out here, that will be why.”
And a fair amount of these panic-fleers don’t own homes out here. “We started early,” says East Hampton realtor Dawn Neway, who works with her sister Diana. “We have a lot of high-end clients, and we noticed when the private schools were closing, before the panic, they weren’t going to travel. They were canceling trips to Aspen for spring break. We had one client call, budget range from $400,000 to $1 million, year-round, starting now. I’ve never seen anything like this.”…
Southampton Hospital, which serves East Hampton, Bridgehampton, Sag Harbor, Noyack, Amagansett, Hampton Bays, Montauk, and of course Southampton, has 125 beds. Only eight are ICU. While a spokeswoman told The Post the hospital is preparing for more, locals here aren’t encouraged.
“How many [ventilators] do you think they have in there?” asks Katsipis. “Ten? Twenty? The city has a lot more hospitals and, not for nothing, better care. Southampton is just not equipped for a pandemic.”
“That hospital is extremely small,” says the Springs resident, who was treated there extensively last year and says there are only four quarantine rooms. “You already get treated in the ER hallway in the summer. We don’t have any medical resources here.”
Compounding the problem is the lack of ambulances. Each firehouse has only two or three, and firefighters and paramedics are not on site — when a call comes in, they’re alerted at home, and they must make the drive to the firehouse and then to the emergency. And all East End firefighters are volunteers.
“It’s a state of emergency now,” says a spokeswoman for an East End fire department.
As a born-and-bred city dweller, I’d much rather be close to a hospital than far from ‘the other’. I understand people, like the Blogmaster, who’d just as lief be entirely self-sufficient… but I have a small house, my dearest friend, our cats & dogs, a tiny yard for isolating-in-place, while also being within easy reach of some of the best hospitals in the world. That’s my happy place! (And, yes, I do realize exactly how privileged this makes me.)
While we’re talking clueless rich people… anyone else remember the Mad-Man-era ‘Aryan from Darien’ jokes that followed guys like ‘Poppy’ Bush around?
When rich people wonder why they're being vilified—and then do this. #COVID19 https://t.co/vjGm7UfTMz
— Julia Ioffe (@juliaioffe) March 20, 2020
The median household income in Darien is like $208,000. (I wrote about it once!)
— Amanda Fortini (@amandafortini) March 20, 2020
Chloë Sevigny is from there and also calls it Aryan Darien. Also, in the 1958 movie Auntie Mame, the titular character laments that she doesn't want her nephew to move there and become "an Aryan from Darien." So, they've had a bad rep for a long time.
— Levi Wilson (@leviisevil) March 20, 2020
Lots of angry Darien residents in my DMs because I tweeted a story from their local paper!
Also, update from that same paper: there will be a new test site opening at the high school on Mondayhttps://t.co/Ed7D5YAHWg
— Anne Helen Petersen (@annehelen) March 20, 2020
joel hanes
All the same pathologies of behavior are limned in DeFoe’s _A_Journal_Of_The_Plague_Year
JMG
Do those rich people not consider the value of staying in a city that’s a major medical center over an isolated (but not isolated enough!!) rural area during a pandemic? Have they lost their confidence about being able to jump to the head of the line?
Momentary
The same thing is happening in rural Wales and Cornwall and in the Scottish Highlands. And Hawai’i from what I’ve seen on twitter. A massive influx of holidayers into poor remote areas that don’t have the medical staff/resource to support them. Medical staff and local councils and MPs are begging the government to step in, and it’s starting to look like there may be violence if they don’t. The nice weather isn’t helping.
Shalimar
Was just looking at numbers for every country. Other countries in the top 10 in number of cases have total recovered cases higher than number of patients who are in serious or critical condition. US numbers are 178 recovered, 708 serious or critical. Our curve is far worse than anywhere else in the world.
germy
D Gardner
The only good thing that came out of this post was that it made me forget for 5 minutes how much I hate Trump. To be fair, in my hatred, “Trump” was replaced by “generic uber-wealthy white a**holes who don’t give a f*ck about anyone but themselves”, so it’s more of a difference of degree, not of type.
MattF
So, they’re all going to infect each other. The piece of knowledge they’re not understanding is that fleeing the city won’t reduce the expected total number of infections– it just slows down the spread. And then, makes it harder to treat effectively. So, the wealthy idiots are going to get infected eventually, and then they won’t be able to get treatment, not for love and not for money, either. Self-triage.
joel hanes
@Shalimar:
The other countries are maybe ten days ahead of us, and we have less testing than most, so we simply are not counting those who got it, did not seek medical attention, and recovered on their own. We may never have a good accounting until we have time to do immunological studies a year or two from now.
In two weeks, our numbers should more closely resemble theirs.
The long incubation period makes policy decisions into something like steering an aircraft carrier — the effect of even dramatic changes at the helm don’t show full effect for a time that can seem like forever.
danielx
We’re all in this together.
Unless you have a ten figure or higher net worth, in which case it’s fuck the proles.
joel hanes
@D Gardner:
Wealth is not the only pathology.
https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1241485175915048961
p.a.
Psychologically, in one respect, a nice tract in the country is appealing (no mcmansion, a modest home with some land), but in the city I can walk out my front door, look right, and see one of the best hospitals in the state 1mile (max) away. 2 megamarts within 2 miles. City water & sewer, and observant but not nosy neighbors to keep an eye on things when I’m away. Well, not nosy that I’m aware of?.
Mandalay
That tweeter is an irresponsible lying sack of shit. The article they link to it doesn’t claim that at all.
Brachiator
@joel hanes:
And, according to the UK Telegraph, it’s become popular again.
Gravenstone
@MattF: If it were only their own death warrants they were signing through this rampant selfish stupidity, I’d be cool with it. Natural selection at work. Unfortunately all the year ’round locals will also be screwed. And you can be damned sure at least a few of the monied crowd will try to throw their supposed power around to try to force preferential treatment. This is going to become a shitshow basically everywhere it’s replicated.
Sab
In DeWine’ press conference yesterday they pointed out that the cases reported aren’t necessarily being located accurately. Cases in the three big C cities (Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland) may be patients from outlying areas that are reported as located in the hospital’s county rather than the patient’s home county. So the smaller towns and rural areas aren’t as safe as they think they are.
I took a hiatus from tax prep until all the snowbirds and spring break idiots come home and incubate for a few weeks.
Nora
@Brachiator: It’s available on Gutenberg, for free.
Another Scott
‘morning all. I don’t like stories like these because there are always a few monsters doing monstrous things… And they’re a distraction. What are the Sulzbergers doing this weekend? Grr…
Are you sitting down? You might want to sit down…
CalculatedRiskBlog:
The numbers are going to be bad, and bad for a long time. Don’t get discouraged or fearful. We will get through this. We have to do what we can to vote out the monsters and start the recovery.
Eyes on the prizes.
Hang in there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
scav
Ah yes, but so many on the street so far get far more pleasure tutting about “those KIDS in Florida!) while blissfully passing over the Olds in same, the many in WV and this moneyed lot. Plus, the teevee teams get to use cuties in swimsuits, always a selling point.
Mandalay
Even Maggie Haberman would tip her hat to the author of that unsourced and anonymous pile of completely implausible bullshit. I’m as happy as anyone to shit on the 0.01 per centers, but drivel like this is just tedious. It’s not as though there aren’t real stories about the rich behaving badly. Why invent stuff?
MattF
@Brachiator: $0.99 in the Apple book store. And they won’t run out of stock.
Gravenstone
@joel hanes: While the proper approach would be for the authorities to seize and redistribute those items to people actually in need, just saying that all those paper products are plenty flammable…
trollhattan
I observe since I last checked, the Johns Hopkins tracker has the US as passing Iran and Germany and before day’s done, we’ll overtake Spain.
Worst Olympics event, ever! Let’s keep our medal at bronze, shall we?
Brachiator
@germy:
So wicked. I like it.
Adam L Silverman
@Momentary: From my years living in Scotland, when the holidayers ask about the local hospital in these small towns and villages, if there is one, it is going to be like the “cottage hospital” in St. Andrews where I lived. Basically three older women working the overnight shift whose triage procedure for anyone showing up for medical assistance was: 1) cup of tea, 2) biscuits, 3) refill cup of tea, 4) recommend that if possible they drive to the actual hospital in Dundee or wait till the NHS surgery opened in the morning,5) another biscuit, dearie?. This is why I set my own dislocated shoulder.
Adam L Silverman
via GIPHY
joel hanes
@Nora:
DeFoe’s _A_Journal_Of_The_Plague_Year_ free on Project Gutenberg here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/376
joel hanes
@trollhattan:
The intransigence of the Japan Olympics organizers in refusing to understand that the Olympics will not be held is … hmm, can’t find the right word. Suggestions?
Brachiator
@MattF:
Yep. You can get the Complete Dafoe, 30 works, including the Plague Year, through Amazon Kindle for 99 cents.
But some might find a physical copy comforting.
Momentary
@Adam L Silverman: Yep. We’ve got angry rescue teams for Mt Snowdon taking to twitter to say a global pandemic is not when we want to have to rescue your sorry arse from our mountain like we did today.
Momentary
And farmers are starting to park tractor and trailer across the roads with signage to say go the fuck home.
Xenos
The Hamptons – wow. Used to spend a few weeks with my Grandparents in Westhampton, back before the serious money from Southampton spread out both East and West to swallow up everything. Cousins on mine chose to live out there year-round, working as artists, yacht captains, etc. These are very much well-to do people, who had grown up in the top 1% back in the ’50s and ’60s. 1% does not get you very far in that environment since the ’80s.
Brachiator
@Sab:
And of course, now we have the formal extension of the filing deadline to July 15. I wonder how many will use this extra time.
L85NJGT
They assigned The Masque of the Red Death in high school, but I never read it.
Adam L Silverman
@Shalimar: We’re also, because of lack of testing combined with the slow rollout of formal social isolation orders, running one to two weeks behind virtually everyone else. So our numbers should really be compared to where most places that screwed up their initial efforts as well were two weeks ago. Not sure how we account for continuing failures, but that needs to be accounted for too.
Hummus Where The Heart Is
@Shalimar:
I don’t know about other countries or the serious/critical number. I am certain that every other number (infected, mortaility) from the US is complete bullshit.
Litlebritdifrnt
One of my immediate family circle has tested positive. The daughter in law of my late Mother’s partner. Her husband tested positive for the anti-bodies meaning he has had it and recovered. Seems like he picked it up from Lancaster University which could have huge implications depending on whether or not it was from support staff or teaching staff.Norman was supposed to come down for Sunday dinner this evening and his family advised against it. Now seems like a good thing seeing he has been in contact with Trevor and Jean in the last week and Nick is in a high risk category having had two heart attacks and a history of pneumonia. Now extremely worried about Norman as he is 85. It is a very scary time.
Adam L Silverman
@joel hanes: Floriduh! Woman. That’s a stand your ground provocation in the Gunshine State if there ever was one!
Nora
@L85NJGT: You should definitely read it now. Poe was brilliant, and his notion of justice in these circumstances seems quite — apropos.
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: Long Island Railroad. Next stop RAAAAWNKAAANKAAAAAAHMAAAAH!
trollhattan
@joel hanes:
I don’t know that hubris translates well to Japanese. Will only note that they have a finely honed sense of deflection in appearing to say one thing while communicating something very different.
The only sportsball I’m aware of was Saturday’s Australian W League (football of the not-American kind) Grand Final, played in a very large, very empty stadium. If they wish to hold Tokyo 2020 on the current schedule, it will look like that. They’ll also need to test all the arriving athletes and support staffs. I don’t see either occurring.
p.a.
Takes real talent to have a gvt response be worse than Italy’s on any issue. Conservatism can’t fail, it can only be failed.
MomSense
The .001%ers who have benefitted most from the last 40 years of Republican letthemeatcakeonomics are the epitome of the selfishness and lack of empathy of that ideology. Of course there are some exceptions, but they are rare.
We are headed into lock downs and closed borders because jerks cannot consider others.
Momentary
@Litlebritdifrnt: I’m sorry, Litlebritdifrnt. Hoping for the best for him.
Hummus Where The Heart Is
@Adam L Silverman:
RE: Lego’s
Can someone skilled in the dark arts turn those heads being lopped off orange? Thanks in advance.
Same thing regarding the old Mr. Bill videos on SNL. Mr. Bill got run over by a bus, got caught in elevator doors, etc.; they would work well as Mr. Donald. Make it orange!
Snarki, child of Loki
@Momentary: “And farmers are starting to park tractor and trailer across the roads with signage to say go the fuck home.”
At last, a use for those “Stay the fuck out! We’re FULL” t-shirts.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator:
Especially in case of toilet paper shortages.
germy
@MomSense:
And the younger ones… this system is all they know, so they view it more as Natural Law rather than something Reagan/Republicans ushered in.
Momentary
@Snarki, child of Loki: honestly that’s my biggest worry, I think the holidaymakers stay home please feeling is legit and warranted, but when people get angry and scared it veers over into the uglier stuff all too easily…
Adam L Silverman
@Momentary: Those mountaineering and orienteering club people are just a bit over the top.
MattF
OT, respite. Take it as given that Bret Stephens is a useless, privileged asshole. But his grandmother was quite remarkable.
Hummus Where The Heart Is
@Adam L Silverman:
Tis why I’m asking for my cash at the bank in ones. No, I’m not going to a strip club (are they essential workers?). But, in a “crisis” situation, having twenty George Washington’s beats an Andrew Jackson every day of the week.
germy
Brachiator
@Momentary:
BBC News reports that people are being discouraged from rushing to the Scottish Highlands.
Also, I read that people often travel for Easter, out of habit, and this is also being discouraged.
Martin
@JMG: The value of that major medical center is massively depreciated when overrun. If they had any brains, they’d have gone to Seoul.
Momentary
Coronavirus: ‘Unprecedented’ crowds in Wales despite warnings https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504
scott (the other one)
Not an original idea but still relevant:
Eat the rich.
Momentary
@Brachiator: yes, also some holiday/caravan parks are profiteering and encouraging custom. Councils and AMs are leaning on them individually to shut it down while the Welsh govt tries to figure out whether it has the power to enforce.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: God I miss that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Catching up on the Joy Reid show and they cut to Cuomo. It’s very interesting to listen to him try to appeal to trump: It’s good that the President did this, it would also be good if the President did that, that would be a very good President.
Miss Bianca
@joel hanes:
Trumpian?
Another Scott
@joel hanes: Everyone knows the Olympics will be cancelled. The athletes can’t train and can’t compete in trials, so of course they will have to cancel.
I assume they’re putting off the official announcement off for financial reasons. Presumably there are insurance payments that kick in if it is cancelled for one reason or another within X days from the start. Or something.
Follow the money.
Just my guess.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
RE: But some might find a physical copy comforting.
Ha! Yes, one might as well be practical.
Sloane Ranger
@Litlebritdifrnt: I’m so sorry to hear this. Keeping my fingers crossed for you all.
hells littlest angel
In the Hamptons? Probably more The 120 Days of Sodom than The Decameron.
oldgold
I watched Governor Cuomo this morning. He was very good.
He mentioned NY has ordered a large quantity of the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine. Testing will begin Tuesday.
In connection with hydroxychloroquine, he noted Africa has reported very low numbers for the Corona Virus. In passing, Governor Cuomo speculated this may be due to low testing or that many Africans use this drug to avoid and treat malaria.
BobS
My daughter, son-in-law, and grandson are hunkered down in a small apartment in Manhattan- my wife and I are scared shitless. I can’t begin to express how much we are grateful for and comforted by the fact Andrew Cuomo is in charge there. I remarked to my son (in Seattle, another hotspot thankfully governed by an extremely competent Democrat) that Cuomo seems like a smart, benevolent, no-bullshit Godfather. He suggested Pacino could play him when a movie is eventually made about this- or Cuomo could play Pacino whenever a biopic is made about his life.
I think all of the networks (and even local stations in other states) could do worse than to run his daily news conferences that (by his words and conduct) instill confidence in leadership.
Between him and Anthony Fauci (I’m told he’s called ‘President Fauci’ by physicians at the Seattle hospital where my daughter-in-law is on staff), Italian-Americans have a lot to be proud of.
Amir Khalid
The lamentations of the privileged are piteous indeed. We must do all we can to relieve their suffering. I can offer them this token gesture: ??
Geo Wilcox
@Brachiator: You can grab it for 99 cents from Google books.
Adam L Silverman
@MattF: His grandmother would think he’s a complete failure and be quite disappointed by how shallow he is and that he’s been able to parlay his shallowness into professional success.
Brachiator
@L85NJGT:
Didn’t read it, either. But I remember the horror movie version with Vincent Price, no doubt a very loose adaptation.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: One of the few things I miss from living in Bethpage.
L85NJGT
Look…. I wouldn’t have donated that new wing if I knew you were going to tell me to take a number….
Brachiator
@BobS:
I am on the other coast, but I note that Governor Cuomo comes across very well in the news stories I have seen.
And our own California governor has been doing very well.
L85NJGT
@Brachiator:
Welp, if you are sheltered in place, it’s short and to the point:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1064/1064-h/1064-h.htm
katinbuffalo
@MattF: But just like rules, they don’t think viruses apply to them.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: You really did capture the vibe well. I didn’t really understand the LIRR announcement style until my first trip home after New Years in Times Square with a train full of completely wasted people, too drunk to pay fares or understand anything other than that one familiar phrase that prompts them to stumble off the train into the darkness.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: I am happy to provide a bit of joy in these dark times.
Sloane Ranger
Today is Mothers Day here in the UK and, for the last, few days there have been public service announcements across all media telling people that the best present they can give their mothers is to stay the hell away from them this year. Most people seem to be complying but there are some arseholes who are ignoring it. Perhaps trying to get their inheritance earlier than they might otherwise have?
Seriously, I don’t understand these people at all. The situation is bad enough without panicking. I haven’t seen toilet paper on the shelves for over a week now, the frozen food and tinned food aisles are bare. I went to my local Morrison’s yesterday. The only frozen veg. available were Brussels sprouts and the only tinned veg was a sad looking solitary can of sweetcorn.
As for those fleeing the cities, I can understand those doing it in Defoe’s day, before they germ theory of disease was understood but today? They’ve been told it can take at least 5 days for symptoms to show after infection. They may have self isolated for those days but they still have to stop for petrol or the loo on the way up and if I get it, I want to be as near a well equipped hospital as possible. Even if they think they can pay to go private, a) the cost of getting them to a private hospital from the Highlands would be astronomical, b) they might die on the way and, c) the Government has bought most, if not all the private beds anyway.
Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog
@Brachiator:
Here’s a link to a screenplay, Harrow Alley (PDF) — sometimes called out as “the greatest screenplay never filmed” — set in London during the plague. I’ve been re-reading it (having first run into it a long time ago). DeFoe’s Journal was a part of the research behind it.
Shalimar
@joel hanes: Since our first case was in January on a similar timeframe for other countries, I suspect a lot of people died of the “flu” these past 2 months who also aren’t counted in the statistics.
We’re behind them in testing, not cases.
Momentary
@Sloane Ranger: Those of us who like brussels sprouts definitely have a survival advantage in these end times!
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
You never know when an office-holder’s first real test will arrive and I’ll give it to Gov Gav for stepping up to the plate on this. He’s made several hard decisions, and also remade them as needed in response to the shifting environment. Rigidity is not what we need and so far, he’s not that. Gives a good presser, in stark contrast with you-know-who.
JoyceH
Meanwhile, can it possibly really be true that Trump wrote a letter offering help with coronavirus, not to New York, not to California or Washington, but to NORTH KOREA?! Seriously?
KSinMA
On a more positive note, there’s this:
“On a typical day, Jeff Quint’s Cedar Ridge Winery and Distillery in Swisher, Iowa, is dedicated to serving up drinks for customers. But these aren’t typical days, so Quint is acting accordingly.
“He’s teamed up with Steve Shriver, owner of Marion-based lip balm manufacturer Eco Lips Inc., to commit some of his equipment — and a lot of his grain alcohol — to making hand sanitizer. The business owners plan to give the sanitizer away for free to anyone who needs a bottle.
“The Foundry Distilling Co., in West Des Moines, is also producing hand sanitizer to give away for free this weekend. Anyone who is out of the product can bring a bottle that holds up to 12 ounces and the distillery will refill it with their sanitizer.”
https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2020/03/17/coronavirus-in-iowa-cedar-ridge-distillery-eco-lips-make-free-hand-sanitizer/5061300002/
Ella in New Mexico
Ugh. Just reading this is making my lungs hurt.
Brachiator
@Sloane Ranger:
I was listening to the podcast of the satirical program, The Now Show. They recorded without the customary live audience, and joked that with all the panic buying shortages, they couldn’t even find any canned laughter.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Lethal. The people who made it, a group called recount, say it’s not an ad, but it should certainly be spread far and wide.
SaltWaterCleanse
Speaking of selfish, stupid, narcissistic assholes…My sister’s ex-husband and his latest wife hosted a gathering in their home this past Monday night to celebrate his birthday. Grown-ass fucking man can’t miss being the center of attention for a day even if it means putting his OWN CHILDREN (my nephews) health in danger. The stupid jackass and his even stupider vapid wife insisted having their blended family together to sit in adoration of the birthday man. Blended family includes — and I shit you not — a young woman who had recently returned from Italy!!! I’m not making this up. They think social distancing does not apply to them because they are rich and classy (NOT) and tasteful (NOT) and above the rest of us great-unwashed.
Here’s the kicker: the phony-ass ridiculous new wife tested positive for covid-19 on Thursday!! Don’t ask me how she got a test. All I know is she is wealthy and connected thru her previous husband.
My sister’s ex-husband is completely unapologetic about his little Bday soiree. He texted my sister and said — again, I shit you not– “This virus has everyone guessing how to deal with it.” No asshole, no it doesn’t have everyone guessing. It has everyone SOCIAL DISTANCING you narcissistic idiot bastard!!
Whew. Had to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening.
Suzanne
@BobS: I don’t even like Andrew Cuomo, and…. DAMN. Andrew Cuomo is KILLING IT right now. I would totally vote for him in a future presidential election. The thing that is really striking me across the face right now is how the core of leadership in government is really…. COMPETENCE.
So. I have been thinking about this pandemic, and the cultural narrative in which it is occurring. There is obviously a lot of generational tension right now, as evidenced by “OK Boomer”. What is happening is that Gen X and the Millennials are going to see their economic security and futures destroyed in an effort to keep Boomers alive. (Yes, I realize that there are seriously sick people among the young, too.) But for the most part, this is the dynamic. We are going to need massive wealth transfers from the rich and Boomers in order to keep things stable. Krugman notes that Americans will not “social distance” for long.
germy
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/03/19/what-distributive-justice-means-for-doctors-treating-covid-19/
Ksmiami
@joel hanes: if Olympic Games are held in a plague forest and nobody hears or sees it has it actually happened?
BobS
@Brachiator: I’m sure there are Republican governors meeting the challenge (DeWine in Ohio and Baker in Massachusetts come to mind), but the people emerging as leaders willing to shoulder responsibility (and the criticism that results) are all Democrats- Cuomo, Inslee, Newsome, Northam, Pritzker, & my own Governor Whitmer.
Kelly
Oregon Coast towns are increasing efforts to keep tourists away.
https://www.dailyastorian.com/coronavirus/north-coast-leaders-appeal-to-tourists-to-stay-away-over/article_76c6e312-6bde-11ea-8a87-93dd6daf3466.html
Tourism on the beautiful Oregon Coast is a huge chunk of the local economy. Medical facilities are limited. Serious medical cases air evacuated to Portland or Eugene in normal times.
JoyceH
@Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog: Harrow Alley! I read that back in the ’80s. I was stationed in Hawaii and took an evening screenwriting class with Bill Froug. He also called it the greatest screenplay never filmed. Had one paper copy and we passed it around. He explained that the movie never got made, not because of its length (which was something like 80 pages longer than a screenplay ought to be, which would have translated to a movie over 3 hours long), but because of the circumstances.
The script got bought, not optioned but outright bought, by George C. Scott, who tried to get the movie made. The dealbreaker was that he wanted to star and direct. And while Scott was a great actor, he was also notoriously Difficult. So the guys with the money to make a movie happen decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation.
Now that Scott is out of the picture, the idea of actually making the movie keeps resurfacing, but I’m skeptical.
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
It is strange that first we put labels on people, and next we falsely sort people by these meaningless labels, and ascribe value to their lives.
The Spanish Flu killed more younger people. No one tries to fit this into some economic framework. And older people and people with certain underlying conditions, are more at risk of dying from this new disease. This does not mean that all Boomers are going to be swept away.
And those who died in China, in Italy and now Spain, which is showing relatively large numbers of fatalities. Are they unworthy Boomers as well?
I certainly wish these whining, selfish young bastards a long, healthy and productive life. And I expect the generation that comes after them will complain about this large group of old people now consuming more than their fair share.
Miss Bianca
@BobS: And Jared Polis of Colorado!
greenergood
@Brachiator: I live in a village which is pretty isolated, technically part of the Highlands, though only 40+ miles from Glasgow. My Member of Parliament (SNP) moved two doors up from me at the end of last year, and I met him outside the village shop yesterday. He was angry with the Daily Mail (Tory, Tory, Tory) for telling people to drive up to the Highlands and either go to their holiday cottages, or drive up in their camper vans (RVs, to you?). Our local health service is stretched beyond belief, and all these rich bastards think they can just come here and no worries. It is definitely the 21st-century Decameron, except that in those days, people, even rich people, sat around telling stories, where these guys are just going to watch streamed Netflix, etc. and there won’t even be any decent stories coming out of this fiasco.
catclub
@JMG: I was wondering when the state of the world changed from:
‘everybody has fleas’ and bubonic plague spread due to fleas on rats.
to the state now, where, ‘most people I know probably don’t have fleas’
I also thought there will be various ‘journals of a plague year’ blogs.
Brachiator
@Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog:
The history behind the screenplay is as interesting as the work itself.
It is odd that one complaint is that the work is not optimistic, but there have been any number of great science fiction films that present a dystopic future as a result of a plague or other catastrophe.
You can even throw in works such as The Seventh Seal or Alfred Hitchcock’s The Birds.
debbie
There are an awful lot of well-off people in my suburb, some as well off as Hamptoners. I’m not angry, more like discouraged, at the attitudes. You can small the stink of entitlement a mile away. I’m patiently waiting for people to at least stop hoarding the damn chicken.
Jinchi
Give the kids a break.
A lot of the reporting about self-centered millenials is complete media BS, meant to fit a narrative about the kids today. There are as many whiny, selfish bastards in every generation. You only need to read as far as the link in comment 10 of this thread to find a prime example of a middle aged ass.
https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1241485175915048961
Or just sign up for the president’s Twitter feed to find an old one.
Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog
@JoyceH: I read one of Bill Froug’s books (The Screenwriter Looks At The Screenwriter — a series of interviews with screenwriters about What They Do and How They Do It … a genre that’s almost always fascinating) and knew people who knew him or had participated in his courses, but never met him myself.
I heard that the actor/writer Emma Thompson bought Harrow Alley a few years ago and was re-writing it with the hope of finally getting it made … forlorn hope now though, I’d guess.
catclub
@Brachiator: I listened to a podcast from the reformed broker/ ritholtz blog crowd. Their view is that when this lockdown ends, whenever it does, business will be crazy busy trying to be the first back up.
– So they think recovery will actually be pretty fast.
You do know that after the plague, wages went up!
Martin
@Brachiator:
And what should I say about the loudmouth 70+ asshole at the grocery store yesterday yacking on his phone about this bullshit illness that has killed fewer people than murders committed by black people in Chicago?
So I’ll see your selfish young bastards and raise you every elected Republican in the country doing vastly more harm and are larger in number.
Brachiator
@JoyceH:
Now that Scott is out of the picture, the idea of actually making the movie keeps resurfacing, but I’m skeptical.
One story about the screenplay suggests that Scott’s legacy is still a problem.
Supposedly, any version of the film that used the full script would be three hours. I’ve read stories that Emma Thompson, among others, are interested in the screenplay.
And three hours? These days you could pad it and come up with a Netflix series.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jinchi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Luckily, I hear he has good federally funded health insurance.
Poe Larity
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Good on his tireless efforts to make testing affordable and widespread to all.
Not.
Martin
I’m going to change my mind on the mailing everyone a check, because AOC just threw out a totally obvious solution. Send everyone a big check every month, and then add it to your tax liability for incomes over certain levels.
So I’d get a $2500/mo check or whatever, and because I need none of it based on my income, I’d have to pay it all back next year, and it’s on me to save it, which shouldn’t be a problem for anyone making pay it all back money because if we can’t do basic tax planning we deserve the penalty. But for me it’s a 0% interest loan with a balloon payment, which the feds can borrow at 0%.
Someone put AOC in charge of this part. She’s got this.
Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog
@Brachiator:
The screenwriter, Walter Newman, seems to have believed that many people in “the industry” simply don’t know how to judge from a screenplay whether it might make a successful movie or not. (He spent several years doing just that himself as a consultant to a production company, and had a decent track record, but apparently it was the product of “a very particular set of skills,” as they say.)
My own take is that, contrary to probability math, there is such a thing as luck, and Harrow Alley‘s just wasn’t good…
Fair Economist
@Litlebritdifrnt: So sorry, Litlebrit. Hoping for minimal infections and symptoms for all involved.
Origuy
@Adam L Silverman: Mountaineering maybe, but orienteering has pretty much shut down. The International Orienteering Federation has cancelled all sanctioned events until the end of May. Pretty much every local event in the US has been cancelled. The most that is happening is that clubs are posting maps of parks so that people can go out on their own.
Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is my upset face.
Brachiator
@Martin:
How do you know that this asswipe was a Republican?
And how does this idiot somehow redeem the young assholes and their anti-Boomer nonsense?
And you have this fool yakking on his phone in a grocery store, spewing racist venom.
And I’ve got people at my local grocery store helping seniors of all ethnicities attend to their shopping.
I don’t think that the selfish, and the Republican, are winning yet.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Martin: that is a good idea
I just hope Senator Rand hasn’t had any recent face-to-face meetings with the 78 year-old Mitch McConnell
glc
Germany bans group meetings of more than two people.
This is pretty good. If it doesn’t work they can try groups of more than one person.
Since the grocery delivery systems seem to have crashed hereabouts I am now an Amazon Prime member.
Just in time to find out their system is also not keeping up – no delivery dates (limited to up to one day ahead).
But I tried again just after midnight and got the one remaining slot (9-11 PM Monday). This was at 12:14 AM. There was also 7-9 PM when I hit the button, but by the time it processed that was gone. So I guess by 12:15 AM today the Monday deliveries were full. Also 1/3 of the items listed as available when I initially placed the order were unavailable when it was filled, meaning I’m going to have to place another order soon, thereby stressing the system even more.
I think this will stabilize fairly soon, but there is also the possibility that it will get much worse.
We don’t usually garden – beyond a few flowers and herbs – but we’ll be planting a lot of vegetables.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Narrator Nostradamus: He will not.
Also:
Brachiator
@Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog:
Newman is an odd duck. He was nominated for an Oscar three times for Best Screenplay, for Ace in the Hole, Cat Ballou, and Bloodbrothers, all wonderful films.
And yet he had his name taken off two other good films, The Magnificent Seven and The Great Escape, because the director, John Sturges, dared make changes during shooting to “perfect” screenplays.
J R in WV
@joel hanes:
Deranged?
Despicable?
Crazed?
Obliviously Ignorant?
Imma gonna stop there…
Suzanne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I just told SuzMom about Rand Paul. It brought the first laughter I’ve heard from her today.
SuzMom is all right.
Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog
@Brachiator:
I gather that the writer actually thought the opposite was true – that it’s not a dystopian story so much as a story of how people remain human and humane (some of them, anyway) in dystopian times.
That could be a rationalization, though, and my understanding is that he himself was not an optimist by nature.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: Just make it a two parter.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: The team designing the legislation should be Katie Porter, Ayanna Pressley, and AOC working for Maxine Waters. In fact Congresswoman Waters’ proposed legislation is really, really good!
https://financialservices.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fsc_covid-19_legislative_package_-_03.18.20.pdf
Brachiator
@catclub:
After the Great Plague, wages went up because so many people in prime working age had died.
James Burke’s magnificent PBS series Connections detailed many of the ways in which the Renaissance was a result of rebuilding and rebirth after the Plague.
ETA: I see that Angela Merkel has been put in quarantine because of the corona virus. Damn.
Martin
@Brachiator: I didn’t say he was a Republican. I’m pretty certain he was given that he was reading from the Tucker Carlson script, though.
He doesn’t redeem the young assholes, but young people aren’t without good reason for being pissed here. The boomers aren’t losing their jobs, the young people are. The boomers aren’t going to get evicted because they can’t pay rent, the young people are. And the boomers aren’t going to have to pay for all of this shit, the young people are. And in exchange for those sacrifices, they’re being vilified as a group because of a group of assholes no different in size than the number of boomer assholes out there.
But can we just stop for a moment and note that a single boomer, by virtue of his privilege is doing infinitely more damage to everyone, including boomers, than every millennial and gen z’er in the nation, combined?
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Agreed 100%.
Suzanne
@Brachiator: Jesus. No one is ascribing value to anyone’s life. But the losses here will not be felt evenly. Preventing the disease transmission is falling disproportionately on younger working people, especially in the restaurant and hospitality industries. The people graduating from college this year may never see their lifetime earnings recover ever. And they’ve been already dealt serious blows due to the ridiculous cost of housing and education. If they don’t have some promise that they will be economically secure, they’re just not going to obey any quarantine. It will just not happen, because they need to live. Economic security is vital to the social order here, and if we do not pay attention to that fact, this will not be a successful effort.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Makes me think of Deadwood, on the one hand a story of greed and brutality stripping all the romanticism from the old west, and Milch’s belief that it was about the formation of community around the unlikely central pillar of Albert Swearingen
@Adam L Silverman: and HBO short series about London in the plague? I’m in.
ziggy
Yes, that does tend to happen if you kill off a good portion of the population, and especially without immigration to fill the void.
Hopefully we won’t have that kind of pressure on our employers! Let’s raise wages because everyone deserves a decent wage.
glc
@germy: This will go viral.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: She was in contact with a doctor who tested positive.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: And on the Senate side, Schumer should designate Warren as the point person and make McConnell negotiate with Warren.
Brachiator
@Martin:
I don’t know that you need to cut everyone a check, but I am also closer to AOC on this.
I hate that the Senate Republicans excluded the Democrats from participating in the drafting of this legislation. This is despicable.
But I also disagree with Schumer’s unimaginative focusing on the unemployed and the supposed “most vulnerable,” while ignoring the vast numbers of people who are hurting now.
News reports suggest that Pelosi is going to direct the House to write their own version of needed legislation. I hope she does and takes AOC’s proposals to heart and sticks it to the GOP.
Martin
@Brachiator: That won’t happen here. Killing off retirees will immensely help entitlement programs, but the workers will all flow back to their old jobs, but now with less demand.
If we win in November, Dems need to go all FDR on infrastructure physical, digital, logistics, etc. Put aside the M4A talk and build a structure for public hospitals and clinics – which the public will recognize the need for, and work back from there. Give Medicaid the best care network in the nation.
Jake Gibson
Are there no guillotines.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Can we just infect McConnell and solve the problem that way?
cain
@Brachiator:
Wait till brexit completes.. I can see Scotland saying fuck off our country now.
Martin
@Brachiator: You cut everyone a check because it’s easier. You then catch people who weren’t working in 2018, you catch folks whose income went to zero because they owned a restaurant, etc.
Just do a full-on UBI with a special AMT to claw it back if it wasn’t needed. If it works, permanentize the mechanisms for recessions, and then just flip it on as needed and set the appropriate amount for the size of the problem. That way you don’t need to go through this multi-week bullshit for designing it – you just need to negotiate over the monthly amount and the duration.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I see Rand Paul has COVID19
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The Invisible Hand has just touched Ron Paul
https://www.yahoo.com/news/rand-paul-becomes-first-known-175142967.html
cain
@BobS:
I’m not sure how others like Kent feel about Gov. Kate Brown’s response to the virus in Oregon, but I find her dithering to be annoying. She should have proclaimed ‘shelter in place’ this weekend. Looks like it will happen on Monday.
The people on the coast and mountains are pissed because these communities, like the hamptons have small infrastructure and people who trend senior. The coast beaches were filled with people. Some communities had the sheriff kick the tourists out. It was sad.
Locally, I see people heading to Lowes and other places to buy plants and the like. I think the idea was that they can work on the garden while waiting this thing out – I dont know. They should just order it online.
My local neighborhood has been good at keeping social distance, but the fucking park was filled the other day with people using the swing set and jungle gym. People do not know how to do this and I think this attitude is going to be pervasive everywhere. They will learn soon enough I guess.
Brachiator
@Martin:
You are usually better than this. It is absurd to wish death on Boomers because of their supposed sins.
And let’s make this more clear and explicit. These young assholes are wishing that their parents and grandparents die because they didn’t do enough for them.
Horseshit.
And odd. I am in the tax business and have reviewed thousands of tax returns. Compared notes with hundreds of tax practioners and economists. This includes returns of Boomers who lost their jobs and their homes during the 2008 crisis. Boomers who endured rounds of layoffs and who never recovered lost income because the jobs they ended up with never made up for their derailed careers.
Boomers who had to take in and take care of their own children and their grandchildren when they fell on hard times.
This whole Boomer vs The Young is bullshit. It is certainly not supported by any facts.
And I have no idea why you would participate in such reductive nonsense.
cain
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
And proves that there is a God.
Suzanne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Rand Paul needs to show us on the doll where the Invisible Hand touched him,
joel hanes
@Jinchi:
Or just sign up for the president’s Twitter feed
A much better use of your time would be to read Joe Biden’s
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden
Biden is acting like a leader.
Trump is acting like himself.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Interlude to take a breath: Dearth of musical choices when it comes to the LIRR. Next best thing might be a – um. er – uniquely styled, running in the same metropolitan area mass transit number?
:)
Martin
@cain: I still think they should team up with Ireland, ship off all of the pensioners to Ireland and isolate them there, send over the workers from Ireland to Britain. Britain stays in the EU, Ireland drops out (because who cares they’re all in quarantine) and in 20-30 years, everyone in Ireland has died off and you can reclaim and repopulate the place.
joel hanes
@Brachiator:
After the Great Plague, wages went up
There’s some evidence that The Little Ice Age was enabled by the drop in the worldwide population of humans.
IIRC, about a third of European farmland lay vacant for a generation.
Citizen Alan
@L85NJGT: I am going to start referring to Republicanism as “The Red Death.”
Mnemosyne
@L85NJGT:
Seems like a whole lot of people who needed to read it never did.
The movie with Vincent Price and Jane Asher is pretty good, if you prefer moving pictures. A few sly nods to “The Seventh Seal.”
catclub
@Martin: You might be interested in this fellow Swift’s ideas for fighting famine in ireland.
too. Also.
Ruckus
@JMG:
That’s not confidence, that’s arrogance.
CliosFanBoy
@BobS: Hogan, R-MD seems to be doing well. Maybe I’m wrong, but from the DC news reports he seems to be doing fine.
Suzanne
@Brachiator: No one is wishing that anyone dies. In fact, most young people are doing a lot of sacrificing in order to prevent that from happening. But the brunt of this economic disaster is not landing on everyone’s shoulders equally, and we need to recognize that and stabilize those young people who are losing a lot right now.
Brachiator
@Martin:
This is my business. It ain’t that easy, just going by what happened with the Making Work Pay credit from years back.
Getting a current address right is not easy. Accounting for people who may have got divorced, did not file a prior year return, etc.
Both Republicans and Democrats are wrangling over whether to include people on Social Security, even though these would be the easiest group to send a check to.
They ended up allowing people who were missed, but eligible, take the credit when they filed their returns. But even this caused confusion.
You don’t need a special AMT for this.
We are close to being on the same page here. The major problem, from what I can gather, is that the Republicans want to fuck over poor people. They want to use some of the rules governing the Child Tax Credit, and make people ineligible for a full check if their earned income is less than $2,500.
And the Democrats, under Schumer, need to get over their fetish for wanting to tie the payments to unemployment compensation, which would fuck over people still trying to work and the self-employed.
As I noted before, we need a president who can stimulate new ways of thinking about this problem, and cut through the bullshit of people trying to apply old solutions based on their old biases.
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
We are not even in the beginning of this thing. It is far too early to tag winners and losers. Entire industries are being kicked and stomped.
Recovery is going to be tough for everyone.
BobS
@Martin: I was thinking something similar laying in bed this morning (unable to return to sleep after waking up too early because I immediately started thinking about the new world we’re living in). Use the (understaffed, due to Republicans) IRS- make early electronic filing available to people who are currently out of work and not being paid, and have the government issue a bi-weekly check based on their past years earnings (pro-rated for a full year). That, coupled with a credit/mortgage/utility payment and eviction moratorium, would be a start (and also help smaller landlords who are at risk of defaulting).
Fair Economist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
She’s got Trump and the Republicans over a barrel and she knows it. Trump’s about to go bankrupt multiple ways; the Republican donors are screaming and they pay the political damage for any delay.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Suzanne: On the lungs, Ran Paul has the virus.
BobS
@Brachiator: It’s true, though. Generally speaking, older people own their own homes, and even older people get Social Security and Medicare.
NotMax
@Enhanced Voting Techniques
Galt Gulch is now a hotspot.
Marcopolo
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Couldn’t happen to a more deserving Senator. I think the word I’m looking for is karma.
Uncle Cosmo
@L85NJGT: Welcome to The Casque Of The Dread Breath. SSDD: Similar sickness, different Decameron.
BobS
@Marcopolo: Don’t be so quick to invoke karma. So far as we know, Paul isn’t permanently horizontal- yet. And probably too much to hope for that him and McConnell sat side-by-side (in first class, of course) when McConnell ran home to Kentucky last week.
japa21
@Brachiator: Thank you. So needed to hear someone say that.
Martin
@Brachiator: I’m not wishing death on anyone. I’m merely noting that young people not only don’t have a monopoly on irresponsibility, the current state of things is 100% not their fault. It’s boomers and GenX (my generation) that control every position of authority in the nation – public and private sector – and who voted for all of the current policies and austerity since 1980.
They have NO political power, so making them the headline is just punching down. That older americans are suddenly life and death dependent on young people acting in a manner that is 100% out of their self interest, while offering them literally nothing in return is just selfish and shitty.
I’m not accusing you personally of that, but collectively, that’s completely the case. And if you want young people to be accountable for their assholes than boomers need to be accountable for theirs (particularly when they were instrumental to putting those assholes in power).
I do not wish death on anyone. I’ve been working from home for over 3 weeks and got policies implemented for a quarter million people over a week before any state or federal guidelines were made available. But please appreciate that young people, who already thought they were fucked because those with political and economic power can’t be bothered to sacrifice for the collective good, are now without jobs and facing a lifetime of tax liability to pay for this shitshow that previous generations couldn’t bother to plan for. They are legit despondent, and getting sick isn’t even the top of their worries.
ziggy
@BobS: This is kind of a silly fight, but I am going to wade in against my better judgement. I’m at the tail end of boomers, we still pay a mortgage (and no getting out of it!), still need to work full-time, no parents or inheritance to fall back on. My millennial stepson is still working (reduced hours), but he lives with us and will have a roof over his head and food to eat no matter what happens. He has plenty of lifetime left to go out and get a good wage when this is over. If our business fails due to this, or we can’t pay the mortgage, we will most likely never recover what we had. People of all ages are going to be hurting.
tokyokie
@joel hanes
I worked a few years editing English translations of Japanese business news stories, and it was sometimes maddening. English, which I believe has more words and verb tenses than any other language and is only marginally contextual, is good for saying exactly what one means. But in Japanese culture, saying something directly is considered impolite, and like some other Asian languages Japanese is highly contextual, so instead of saying, “X did Y,” it would come across as something like, “X, who, according to sources close to X, is thought to have taken steps to begin doing Y.” And when I’d suggest simply changing it to “X did Y,” the Japanese translators would react in horror, because that wasn’t what was written, even though it was what was supposed to be extrapolated.
So in other words, I wouldn’t put much faith in how a statement by a Japanese official regarding a situation that’s in flux is translated for an English-language news story. The official probably knows the Games are screwed, but he has to save face until those further up the hierarchy tell him something different.
BobS
@Martin: This site needs a ‘like’ option.
tokyokie
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Or, at the very least, the invisible hand failed to cover the invisible mouth when it sneezed in Ron Paul’s direction.
August West
Once again, Trump out douches himself:
h/t https://www.propublica.org/article/lupus-patients-cant-get-crucial-medication-after-president-trump-pushes-unproven-coronavirus-treatment
J R in WV
@Nora:
There’s also a pretty good movie based upon the Poe story… The standard cast for Poe movies from that era of film making. One review said the film was more a work of art than a movie, another called the sets and costumes wonderful. Vincent Price as evil Prince Prospero in medieval Italy…
Today Prince Prospero is being played very well by Donald J Trump…
BobS
@ziggy: Of course this is true, which is why I wrote “generally”. Virtually everyone in my circle of acquaintances- friends, relatives, and coworkers- my age (mid-60’s) and older is without a mortgage payment. People 62 and older can collect Social Security, while those 65 and older qualify for Medicare. Older people are buffered from many of the economic effects of things to come.
japa21
@BobS: A lot of older people rent and many are still paying off mortgages. Medicare alone does little, specially now. So they are also paying for drug coverage and a supplemental policy. And SS is not, and never was meant to be a living wage type of thing. A lot of older people rely on their IRAs etc. which have just taken a major hit.
A lot of older people have to work to supplement SS and that work is now gone (me for example).
cain
He is an asymptomatic carrier, he’s a plague carrier, running around infecting people.. he claims he’s not been in contact with anyone, but that won’t stop the virus from spreading – whatever he’s touched at restaurants, handles, stairs, you name it, he’s spreading it. Extensive travel means extensive spreading. Good show, senator –
J R in WV
deleted
Suzanne
Exactly.
We will need to work on something like the post-war social infrastructure for young workers. Low-cost home loans and low-cost housing (maybe a large lump sum benefit like the $8K credit after the 2008 recession), rent assistance, small-business loans, and seriously reduced cost of higher education or student loan forgiveness. Because, like you said… they are essentially in a position in which they absolutely should not behave in their self-interest right now.
BobS
@japa21: I understand that what you write is true. But all of the things you write with respect to housing apply to young people as well, and they don’t have a Medicare card in their wallet or a Social Security check coming in April.
J R in WV
@Another Scott:
I would be amazed if there is any insurance at all. They expect to just roll over anyone who would have a case against them, they’re untouchable in their own minds, which is why they can’t understand they will be cancelled will they or not.
cain
@BobS:
Good luck with that.. John hates that. Not that John participates much in these discussions :P
Martin
@Brachiator: Well, I think you do need a special AMT, because if you gave me $2K a month for 9 months or however long this recovery will take, my tax liability on that $18K is going to be like $3K if you had me count it as income. And I don’t need the money. I’d just as soon have the feds claw every penny back from people like me (say, AGI $75K or higher and graduate it down to $50K – whatever, the specific amount isn’t that important) so they can give more to those that lost their jobs. By handling the exceptions on the backend they have a bit more time to sort out details.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, because you’ll never get perfect, but I think it’s a lot closer to right than the GOP plans, and could be done faster. Because even if you told everyone you’d guarantee a certain amount of money, you’d pretty quickly get landlords willing to float tenants until those checks went out, etc.
Part of what I don’t like about the GOP plan is that one-time checks don’t provide income security, and people need income security. That’s why I want the loan/rent moratorium. It takes shelter out of the insecurity category, which is a big thing for low income folks.
cain
@Suzanne:
It’s really frustrating that Republicans are in the way of all of this. They just want to grift off the population and talk nationalism. But we haven’t done anything “great” in a long awhile. We were explorers, scientists, and so many other things. I feel like we’ve become a shadow of ourselves. We don’t even want to pay for the peace corp now. Anything good is removed.
We could be putting a lot of people to work transforming our infrastructure. Showing the world what leadership looks like – making a green economy. I really hate Republicans.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Jane Asher was Paul McCartney’s long time girlfriend in the mid-60’s.
japa21
@BobS: Look, I am not arguing that we olds need preferential treatment. But it definitely should not be assumed that the youngs need preferential treatment either. Many of the youngs have better health insurance than Medicare.
There is no need to make this into a dichotomy. And some here appear to be attempting to do that.
MoCA Ace
@Brachiator:
Stick a sock in it. This is no better than the youngs bitching about the selfish old boomers. My whining selfish bastard continues working as a CNA because the aged and infirm boomers aren’t going to clean their own bed pans.
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
+1. Thank you.
The enemy is the GOP and their enablers. Not people who were born in certain years.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
BobS
@Martin: I’d rather they didn’t give money to people who don’t need it in the first place. If it was done via electronic filing with the IRS, people like you and I could just skip the process entirely (and that would apply to a lot of people, reducing the logistical burden).
ziggy
@BobS: Your circle of acquaintances may be better off than my lower-middle class, blue-collarish circle. Many of us will get hammered hard if we are shut down.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
How could anyone watch that and turn around and support that mendacious ass, let alone vote for him?!?!!! Amazingly good and well done!
That video is all false news, photoshopped? No, For I heard most all of that LIVE FROM HIS MOUTH!!!!
Wife is a compulsive consumer of news, so I hear/see too much myself while fixing dinner.
Another Scott
@joel hanes:
LiveScience:
Yay?
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
pluky
@BobS: It’s starting to chafe my butt that Gina Raimondo in RI isn’t getting the props other governors are for handling the pandemic. Now, how is SHE different from the rest . . . ?
Martin
@BobS: Home ownership is a major economic inflection point. If you could pull it off as a young person, you generally reap increasing benefits your entire life (unless you HELOCed yourself out of house and home in 2008). And if you couldn’t pull it off as a young person, you’re probably going to be increasingly behind the ball your entire life.
I live in a community where both sides are in very stark contrast. Rapid property value appreciation, and a lot of immigration means that you have lots of folks like me where everything fell together (stable income plus a dip in the housing market at the right time) and are unexpected millionaires, an a lot of folks like half of my neighbors that are multigenerational households. The grandparents couldn’t pull it off, but could do enough to get their kids into college and good jobs, they bought the house, and brought the parents in.
What we all have in common is another generation – our kids – living at home because you have a choice to pay rent forever, or live with mom and dad and save for your down payment, but you can’t both pay rent and make the down payment. Shit, even at 51 I don’t make enough to pull that off.
So there are zillions of older american that never could get on the homeowner bandwagon, and they’ve pretty much been fucked over the whole time, because unlike me, they don’t get a big ass mortgage interest deduction every year.
Feathers
@Suzanne: The real problem with housing is the the suburbs were built out for the baby boomers without a thought as to how the next, presumably larger, generation was going to be housed. Local zoning and preservation is a grift. Europe knows that you have to tear things down and rebuild every century or so in order to house the population. I know that they have lots of old stuff, but they also have a history of constant renewal.
Suzanne
@japa21: But the olds do need preferential treatment right now: they need younger working people, who are at lower risk of this disease, to sacrifice significant earning potential en masse and thereby make themselves housing- and income-insecure. That’s the point.
This will have to be equalized, or people are going to be like “Fuck you, I got mine” and defy orders to shelter in place or quarantine. Crazy people are already stocking up on firearms, anticipating civil unrest.
BobS
@japa21: Which is why I think it should be needs based. However, older, retired people were less impacted financially by this simply by virtue of the fact they weren’t going to work anyway. Nothing is that different this month than it was last month. And while I understand defined contribution pensions have taken a hit, I would argue that’s disproportionately effecting the young as well- retired people shouldn’t be gambling their retirement accounts on the stock market.
I understand there are exceptions- some times lots of them- to any rule, but generally speaking, the financial cost of this is disproportionately on the young.
ziggy
I’m just flabberrgasted at this “we can’t expect the young to behave properly without bribing them with future benefits” argument! What about just behaving like a grown-up, acting responsibly, thinking about older people that you know and love? I mean, we send them off to war for us, and many do it with pride. Sacrificing for your elders is as old as time. Once the deaths start hitting home, those attitudes will change and fast.
Martin
@BobS: There’s almost no downside to doing it. It’s a 0% interest loan with a balloon payment, and the govt can borrow at 0% interest. So the only cost is the transaction. And I’d argue that we need to move so much faster today that moving the transaction costs to the backend, when we’ll probably have more time to focus on the details makes a lot of sense.
If I want to use that money to buy stuff, that helps. If I stick it in the bank, it becomes liquidity, and if I’m daring I’ll buy stock and hope it goes up and make a few bucks on the loan while helping buoy the market. And it cost the feds basically nothing.
Suzanne
@Feathers: Yes, that is certainly an aspect of the problem.
Another part of the problem, which is not really as much of a problem, but is certainly a factor, is that as life expectancy has grown, people are not getting inheritances or any windfalls early in their lives. My in-laws are in their sixties, and they just got small inheritances from the deaths of their parents in the last two years. In previous generations, people would more typically get a cash infusion when they were younger, which stabilized them and reduced dependence on debt.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Not to pick on you, but WHO:
LiveScience:
We’re all in this together. The young are not immune.
Cheers,
Scott.
BobS
@Martin: Honestly, I get in over my head pretty quickly when I wade into questions of money and finance- with that caveat, how about something like what you propose, i.e. cash for everybody, as a starter, and then a more targeted program as this becomes more prolonged? (of course, this all presumes a non-sociopathic administration and Republican Party, so we’re basically fucked).
Suzanne
@Another Scott: No one’s saying that the young are immune. But the risk burden is not equal, and the economic sacrifice is not equal, either.
Suzanne
@ziggy: I’m flabbergasted that this is controversial. If we let a situation get really dire, terrible choices are made. If we leave working people in a situation where they either have to work to keep the lights on and a roof over their kids’ heads, or go without income and lose their shelter in order to protect their parents and grandparents…. there is no good outcome there. And I would find it incredibly sad but impossible to condemn.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Suzanne: Those post World War 2 benefits were tied to military service in the war, my dad got his education paid for and had help with the loan to buy their first house. He was in the Navy prior to the war and during the war. There is still a GI Bill, the kid got her nursing school paid for based on her 6 1/2 years in the Air Force.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
so if we assume he was swimming before he got the diagnosis– but with this fucking addle-pated goon anything is possible– that still means he was hanging out in the gym after having decided for whatever reason to get tested, which if you’ve ever had a nasal swab, is not something one would do for kicks.
Martin
Why is “we can’t expect the old to behave properly without bribing them with tax cuts” equally a thing? Every time the country has come close to paying off our liabilities, the GOP, backed by older voters has come storming into power demanding their tax cuts, undermining any effort to actually pay for the benefits they have already enjoyed.
The last 40 years has been one exercise after another of deficits don’t matter, the young people will party off of our tax cuts that will grow the economy. And for 40 years it was never true, and yet older voters continue to vote into it. We were doing this shit 20 years before the youngest voters were even born.
Why can’t the olds behave like a grown-up, act responsibly, and think about younger people that you know and love? Maybe start by selling the SUV and buying an EV. Maybe tax cap gains the same as income. Maybe stop running for president.
Suzanne
@ziggy: It should also be noted that young people who join the military and go off to war often do so for the financial benefits. It’s at least somewhat transactional. There’s a reason that the military disproportionately comes from poor- and working-class backgrounds.
J R in WV
@Martin:
I have to disagree with this. In these very threads we see boomers being laid off and frantically searching for a job, any job, before the Trump Plague ever showed up anywhere. While many boomers have done very well, many are doing contract work because their jobs disappeared years ago.
My wife’s guaranteed union pension plan turned into an insurance annuity with no improvement ever before she was awarded total perm disability… not quite sure how that is legal, but we all know employees in a bankruptcy are at the back end of people entitled to remaining funds from the bankrupt company, while owners and lenders make off with all the assets.
I’m not complaining about our situation at all, just making the point that there are as many boomers facing poverty as there are younger folks. To me the big difference is that younger folks have the rest of their working life to change their career, while poor older boomers are gonna be greeters at Wally World at best.
evodevo
@catclub: wages went up because the plague had killed a third of the population and there were very few workers left…they demanded more money and got it, at least for awhile
japa21
@BobS: What is need? I am 73 and many people among my acquaintances are well enough off they probably don’t need much assistance. Several, however, are working in order to stay afloat. I am one of those. I had a choice, continue working and put myself at high risk of getting the virus or opt out. I continued working probably longer that I should have and finally on Friday, said enough. Hopefully, I did not wait too long.
I also know a lot of younger people in their 20’s and 30’s who are already financially secure and probably don’t need the assistance. But, in reality, many do.
If you are going for a needs based disbursement of funds, how is the need decided and how does one go about proving one’s need? I am sure a system could be worked out and somewhere around August checks could be going out.
Suzanne
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Sure. I was raised for many years by my grandfather, who served in WWII, and who grew up exceedingly poor due to his mother dying when he was young and his dad being a drunk, and he used the benefits of his military service to go to college and buy a home and get an office job and basically live out the Platonic midcentury middle-class ideal.
This is obviously a different event requiring different kinds of sacrifices from different people. But those people will also need similar social infrastructure if we ever want to have a stable society after this is over.
Martin
We’re probably facing a situation that a lot of young people are going to be similarly putting off a fair bit of their future to get society through this. In the same way that the GI bill was designed to get young people back on track because the next 40 years of the economy relies on it, we may need to do something similar today.
I’m able to do that for my kids, but most are just hosed. It’s pretty clear that the university closures aren’t going to produce the outcomes we want. A lot of students are going to have to at least temporarily drop out. A HUGE number of my students are struggling to balance classes and helping their parents either financially or with labor for a family business which is probably now not producing income. We’re expecting mass withdrawals simply to help keep the family afloat. Many will have to do that long enough that they won’t easily be able to return.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m, I think, an older Gen-X (52). I was at the grocery store this morning where a lot of the employees I saw were probably older than me– so, Boomers– but still punching a clock in these times. Some also looked to be in their twenties and thirties. Maybe they’re glad to be getting paid, maybe they’re pissed they have to show up at risk to their health. I imagine there’s a good generational mix at the power and water plants, on the garbage trucks, and mopping up in hospitals and nursing homes. We need to make a distinction between people playing basketball or having drinking parties at the beach, and people who are performing what is now a vital community service.
ETA: If you saw Cuomo this morning, his mini-almost-rant on basketball was one of the great, if justified, get-off-my-lawn moments of all time.
also
Bernie twitter and some of the usual suspects are making out that the fact that Biden hasn’t declared himself president is a sign of senility and uselessness. I don’t know where these ads are being played, I would hope they’re all over facebook. You’d have to have your MAGAt hat pretty far up your own ass to think trump looks better than Biden here, though I would’ve edited out the reference to the website, run it as a chyron, “See Joe’s plan at…”
Brachiator
@MoCA Ace:
RE: I certainly wish these whining, selfish young bastards a long, healthy and productive life.
Well, you certainly missed my larger point that the whole Olds vs Youngs argument is false. I guess I should have added heavy sarcasm tags.
Suzanne
@Martin: Hell, we still pay American farmers not to plant on their land, because we realize that the collective requires sacrifices on the part of the individual, but that we can’t expect people to do that if they’re going to be broke otherwise.
Brachiator
@Martin:
You are just wrong, and this is not how AMT works.
And unless Congress really goes for a “checks to everyone approach,” this is a non-issue.
Also, as I noted, a larger issue is the Republican insistence on screwing poor people out of a larger share of any check.
Martin
@J R in WV: Statistically, it’s true. Yes, there are older americans that absolutely need to be working, just as there are Jared Kushners. 27% of 65+ are working compared to 83% of 25-34 year olds. And a lot of those 65+ are in jobs that have low physical demand. Virtually all of my faculty work past 65. It’s not uncommon among doctors and lawyers, executives, etc. Hell, look at Congress. A lot of people that almost certainly can retire but choose not to.
BTW, if those people would just retire, it would open up quite a few well paying jobs for the generations below them to move up into. That’s yet another generational sacrifice that would help immensely – if you can afford to retire, just retire. Volunteer your talents. Don’t be greedy.
And note, the policies the young people are backing always benefit older low income Americans as well. They just don’t benefit high income ones.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Feathers:
The boom in housing started during the post war period.
James E Powell
@Martin:
I try to avoid wishing people dead, but if Republican senators die from this, will I be expected to feel bad?
J R in WV
@BobS:
Older people get Social Security, indeed.
I have friends who worked construction off and on, until their joints/back gave it up. Here’s the Social Seciruty benefit for people without the required work history, or who became disabled before they worked the required number of quarters:
That’s really making out well, there. Less than $800 bucks a month, or under $600/each for a couple; note that those are Maximum benefits. Keep stroking that chicken, dude!
I have several friends who were really on the edge when they started getting that tiny benefit, because their other option was ZERO $$ …. I dunno how they paid property tax to keep their tiny farms!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the mayors of Italy are tired of some bullshit
Martin
@Brachiator: I know it’s not how AMT works, I just don’t know what to call it. It’s a ‘if this happens, we follow this other set of rules’ kind of thing.
Ruckus
@MattF:
Shame isn’t it……
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
Trump is also paying farmers a shitload of subsidies to make up for his failed tariff war against China.
Suzanne
@J R in WV: Honestly, I think one of the best things we could do right now is pay people not to work. Lower the age of eligibility for Social Security, or call it UBI, or whatever…. maybe make a one-time incentive for older people to jump out of the workforce early. That would enable their social distancing while leaving more jobs for younger people. And younger people who aren’t working should also feel more economically secure. Make unemployment payments a thing you can get if you voluntarily resign.
Brachiator
@Martin:
None of this would be necessary, even if the government ends up giving everyone a check. You’re over-thinking it.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Martin: this
Martin
@James E Powell: I don’t have the emotional capacity to mourn for everyone, so I have to pick and choose.
And my emotional well being is somewhat dependent on finding the benefits of situations that are out of my control.
So if McConnell should pass away, I likely would search for any benefits from that unfortunate event to give me the emotional surplus needed to mourn his death. Please don’t confuse that for me being happy about his death, despite my frequent cheers of ‘woo hoo!’.
joel hanes
@ziggy:
This is kind of a silly fight
that’s one of the two kinds of fights that are best walked away from
Dorothy A. Winsor
You know how we shake our heads when Rs convince poor people that immigrants are the reason they can’t pay their bills? How we wonder why they can’t see that it’s the people glomming onto everything from the top that impoverishes them? The boomer vs young people argument seems like that to me.
Zelma
NJ governor has told people to stay away from the shore towns, even if they own property here. Same situation as the Hamptons. We are still in the off season mode: not enough police, not enough groceries, and limited health facilities. Cape May County’s first case was a man from North Jersey who decided to visit. I don’t know how they enforce that order. I notice that there are twice as many inhabited houses on my street than usual.
I worry a lot about all the immigrant workers who build the Macmansions around here. I notice that the hammering has stopped. I wonder how they are going to survive. And they are unlikely to get any money from the bailout because I’m willing to bet at least half are illegals. This is going to hurt those with the least the most.
J R in WV
@August West:
I have at least one cousin with lupus… she’s as stubborn and Republican as they come, and the most well to do of all my relatives so far as I know, but was a sweet person to me when I was young. Now mostly a phobic hermit.
So I’m torn… I love her, but … there you go!
BobS
@J R in WV: Jesus, talk about stroking chickens (dude)- people here need to learn the definition of “generally”. And while nobody’s getting rich on $783/month, it’s still a guaranteed $783 that some 30 year who was working in a restaurant until last Friday can’t count on being there every month.
joel hanes
@tokyokie:
Hai, I worked directly with technical teams from Fujitsu off and on for about ten years, and made two attempts to learn a little Japanese language in a good extension course.
Where the manager on our side would have said “We’re going to have a problem agreeing to X”, his Japanese counterpart would say “We are interested in proposal X, and will consider it carefully. We will take this information back to our team and discuss it, and we will have an answering proposal in two weeks.” And the answering proposal would include none of the elements of X.
joel hanes
@J R in WV:
To be fair, Poe’s nineteenth-century prose style can be nearly impenetrable if you haven’t read much literature from that period. Twain showed us how to speak forthrightly, and even his sentences are ornate compared to today’s diction.
e.g. where today someone would say “Interesting.”, Poe’s contemporaries would intone “not without interest”. The double negative construction was everywhere.
Fair Economist
@Suzanne:
This!
dimmsdale
@Suzanne: totally agree with you. Such a shabby, self-absorbed, vengeful wheeler-dealer pol he’s been for years. Today I watched his entire press conference, and he’s setting absolutely the right tone and taking what I think are absolutely the right steps, and doing so with a surprising humanity, equanimity, and even wisdom. (Actually, right now he’s reminding me of his dad, a deeply humane and brilliant leader. Mario Cuomo was one of my top 10 politicians ever.)
BobS
@dimmsdale: He’s channeling his dad these days- definitely rising to the occasion.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: With respect++, I think it is a big mistake to frame the discussion as olds vs youngs. The virus doesn’t care. ICUs filling up with 20-somethings is just as much of a disaster as them filling up with oldsters. The hit to families, the economy, and the future of the country is just as huge whether the economy stops because of olders or youngers getting killed in huge numbers.
The problem is political – in particular the GOP political leadership in Washington. The GOP is against any expansion of the social safety net. The Democrats aren’t. The argument should be framed so that those preventing progress through their political leadership actions (and lack thereof) – IOW, the GOP and their enablers – are called out for it. Generational arguments, and anything else that muddles the message, gets in the way.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Suzanne
@dimmsdale: I grew up on Long Island in the 1980s, and Mario Cuomo was, no lie, the first politician of whom I was ever aware. Even more than Reagan. I didn’t realize that a very high bar for public servants was being set in my mind.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
Yeah, the generation bashing is both tiresome and jejune. It’s the (usually) unspoken “they deserve to suffer” intimation which is truly chilling.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: With respect, when looking at the population as a whole, the disease burden and risk does not fall on the population equally. Nor does the economic burden. Every life lost is a tragedy, no matter what age. It will take some social engineering to equalize these burdens. Not doing so is ultimately unsustainable.
SW
Just got done reading Edgar Allan Podunk’s, “Mask of the Red Hat”.
Timely.
Don K
Guillotines are too good for this lot. Might I suggest an amateur half-blind executioner with a rusty household axe?
Ruckus
@scott (the other one):
Always suspected that they would taste like shit.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Bravo.
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. And it is certainly wrong to try to form some general principles based on the corona virus. Its impact on certain segments of the population is not connected to the risk of illness or death that these populations would have from all other factors.
And to talk about what might or should be “sustainable” doesn’t seem to be based on anything at all.
Ruckus
@Martin:
I like it, a raise, and I don’t have to pay some of it back and I get to practice retirement? Damn, that’s a fine idea
Ohio Mom
I am skipping to the end so perhaps this has already been addressed.
Does everyone calling for the Social Security age to be lowered understand that benefit amounts are staggered?
If your benefit amount at full retirement age is $X, and you retire at 62 (the earliest you can start collecting) your monthly benefit is reduced to a smaller amount, forever. Retire at 63, it bumps up a little, 64, bumps up again, and so on.
If you wait until after your full retirement age, the amount bumps up each year until you are 70, at which point you must start collecting.
What is full retirement age? It depends on what year you were born. Mine is 66 and a couple of months; people who were born in years after mine have to wait longer.
And despite what Bob S. says, lots of people can’t afford to retire as early as possible, and aim to keep working until they are 70.
TL;dr: Lowering the SS age is complicated.
Another Scott
@Ohio Mom: I’ll be SP Warren has a plan for that. ;-)
https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/social-security
Actually, her plan doesn’t cover lowering the SS retirement age. But it could be done (via a similar scaling mechanism already done for those under 66.x or over 66.x, as you outline).
A bigger issue might be Medicare eligibility – people need health insurance (and decent healthcare) when they quit working full time. Retiring at 60 (or 55 or whatever) won’t be sufficient if someone still has to wait until 65 to get on Medicare.
Cheers,
Scott.