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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 Coronavirus / Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

by Betty Cracker|  April 21, 20202:49 pm| 144 Comments

This post is in: COVID-19 Coronavirus, Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity

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So, this was bullshit:

AP: A malaria drug widely touted by Trump for treating the coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported. https://t.co/4pFQjSXrIs

— Geoff Bennett (@GeoffRBennett) April 21, 2020

Shocker, I know.

If I were DNC Chief Meme Maven, I’d run a contest to produce more content like this: people pretending to be pub-crawlers acting out Trump’s incoherent and stupid ravings from the “press briefings.”

This is perfection ?????? pic.twitter.com/6HIArUvPZG

— Hear Me Roar (@Stop_Trump20) April 20, 2020

It’s brilliant. Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

144Comments

  1. 1.

    ant

    April 21, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRly-0wwl_g

  2. 2.

    feebog

    April 21, 2020 at 2:55 pm

    Would make a perfect ad if it were an old guy and he fell off the bar stool at the end.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 21, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    If I were DNC Chief Meme Maven, I’d run a contest to produce more content like this: people pretending to be pub-crawlers acting out Trump’s incoherent and stupid ravings from the “press briefings.”

    His claim yesterday that he hadn’t left the White House “in months”– destroyed on the spot by Yamiche Alcindor pointing out that he held a rally in March– should have been humiliating, and on some level I guess it was. And in the tweet I linked to, they point out that he went to Mar A Lago (wasn’t that the GUilfoyle birthday party?) and played golf at least once. I suspect that moment provoked both the immigration tweet last night and the ratings tweet from this morning.

    I can’t remember who tweeted out the video this morning of him bragging about how the doctors at the CDC can’t believe how smart he is, but I don’t know how there are people haven’t turned on him just out of embarrassment. But as ever, getting that middle 20ish% to care about anything is the challenge

  4. 4.

    namekarB

    April 21, 2020 at 3:00 pm

    TPM has interesting take. MD indicates this is not really study but more a reflection as those that were admistered the drug were in bad shape initially
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/not-good-6

  5. 5.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    April 21, 2020 at 3:00 pm

    A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

    Everything. Dump. Touches. Dies.

  6. 6.

    Mandalay

    April 21, 2020 at 3:03 pm

    More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

    I vividly recall Trump asking “What have you got to lose?” when promoting this drug.

    Well now we know: your life.

  7. 7.

    Zzyzx

    April 21, 2020 at 3:05 pm

    And what makes this stupid is that there are some treatment approaches that actually are promising that Trump could have pushed, but instead he went with this stupidity.

    It’s almost as though depending on Fox and Friends for your information isn’t the best idea.

  8. 8.

    Barbara

    April 21, 2020 at 3:06 pm

    @namekarB: It was reckless to push testing of unproven drugs, and spare me any “what did we have to lose” arguments.  What we have to lose is not putting resources to better use testing other therapies or ramping up testing.

  9. 9.

    taumaturgo

    April 21, 2020 at 3:07 pm

    Recent encouraging news from the contested state of Michigan. The independent voters are bad news for Donald.

    President Trump COVID-19 Approval at 44%-50%
    Respondents disapprove of President Trump’s handling of COVID-19 by a margin of 44%-50%.

    Republicans approve of his handling by a margin of 88%-9%.
    Democrats disapprove of his handling by a margin of 6%-86%.
    Independent voters disapprove of his handling by a margin of 40%-52%.
    Men approve of his handling 49%-46%.
    But women disapprove of his handling by a margin of 39%-54%.
    Governor Whitmer COVID-19 Approval at 57%-37%
    Respondents approve of Gov. Whitmer’s handling of COVID-19 by a margin of 57%-37%.

    Democrats approve of her handling by a margin of 89%-8%.
    Republicans disapprove of her handling by a margin of 22%-70%.
    But Independent voters approve of her handing by a margin of 56%-35%.
    Men approve of her handling 49%-42%.
    Women strongly approve of her handling by a margin of 64%-32%.
    ** **The statewide general population poll was commissioned by the Detroit Regional Chamber and conducted by the Chamber’s polling partner, Glengariff Group Inc., of 600 Michiganders between April 15 through 16, 2020.

  10. 10.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 21, 2020 at 3:09 pm

    @Barbara:

    It was reckless to push testing of unproven drugs, and spare me any “what did we have to lose” arguments.  What we have to lose is not putting resources to better use testing other therapies or ramping up testing.

    WhY nOt leT iT bE A ChOiCE bEtWeEn a pAtIeNt AnD tHeIR dOcTor!?!

  11. 11.

    Baud

    April 21, 2020 at 3:12 pm

    @Mandalay:

    I vividly recall Trump asking “What have you got to lose?” when promoting this drug.

    That was his pitch to black people in the 2016 election.  The answer is “everything.”  With Trump, the answer is always “everything.”

  12. 12.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 21, 2020 at 3:13 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I see that orthography a lot. Isn’t it hard to type?

    Yes, I’m old. What’s it to you?

  13. 13.

    Baud

    April 21, 2020 at 3:15 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I don’t know if Goku does this, but I believe there are ways to automatically “translate” words into that form.

  14. 14.

    M31

    April 21, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    OK this is funny: I was watching an online auction (not Ebay) and it was a hodgepodge of coins and jewelry and collectables. There were some stupid framed montages of photos of celebrities with an autograph in the middle.

    The one for Kobe went for $200.

    The one for Trump started at $2 and had no bidders.

    LOL the auction site had the Trump montage estimated to sell for “$525-1050” HAHAHAHAHA nice try suckers

  15. 15.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 21, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Imagine what a humungous piece of shit you have to be to fucking brag about your ratings for your news conference for a deadly virus. It’s a captive audience, douche. It’s not that impressive

  16. 16.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 21, 2020 at 3:18 pm

    @Baud: Remember G&T is old.

  17. 17.

    Roger Moore

    April 21, 2020 at 3:18 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    His claim yesterday that he hadn’t left the White House “in months”– destroyed on the spot by Yamiche Alcindor pointing out that he held a rally in March– should have been humiliating, and on some level I guess it was.

    That said, I think it represents his feelings.  He feels trapped at the White House.  His clubs are shut down, people are reluctant to go to coronavirus parties Nuremberg rallies, and everyone is demanding he actually do his job full time.  He desperately wants to get out and do some of the activities he clearly loves: hanging out with sycophants at Mar-a-Lago, golfing at his clubs, basking in cheers at his rallies, etc. but he can’t.  He wants the country to reopen at least as much so his life can go back to what passes for normal as anything.  I wonder the extent to which these “Open Up” rallies were staged as trial balloons to see how many people he could get to show up if he went back on the campaign trail.

  18. 18.

    randy khan

    April 21, 2020 at 3:21 pm

    This is about the 6th study that showed no benefit from hydroxychloroquine.  It’s probably time to stop studying it and try something else.  (And it’s worth noting that the early studies showed only benefits for people with mild cases, so it wasn’t saving any lives.)

  19. 19.

    Barbara

    April 21, 2020 at 3:21 pm

    @Roger Moore: If he did those rallies, he would be putting police and everyone else who has to show up for security at risk.

  20. 20.

    Kent

    April 21, 2020 at 3:25 pm

    @Roger Moore: I expect this is it exactly.  As president he can go golfing as much as he wants at his closed down golf clubs.  He can have Marine 1 take him straight to the first fairway.  But what’s the fun in that if there is no army of sycophants hanging about to tell him how amazing he is?  And for that you gotta have the clubs open.

  21. 21.

    rikyrah

    April 21, 2020 at 3:25 pm

    Sue sue sue ??

  22. 22.

    Leto

    April 21, 2020 at 3:25 pm

    Sweet, using vets as guinea pigs. That’s just awesome.

  23. 23.

    JAFD

    April 21, 2020 at 3:26 pm

    Good afternoon, fellow Jackals (Or good evening or morning or…)

    Would like to get $123.00 or so worth of food, delivered from ShopRite.  But: Have to pick delivery time before checkingout, found yesterday, delivery times thru next six days bookedup.  So tried again, 4 this morning, still no luck, will try again at thirty seconds past midnight…  Running out of tea bags.  And Splenda.  And cheeze

    Mask wearing:  If you’re outside, walking in area with little pedestrian traffic, stiff breeze blowing, should I feel guilty if I pull it down, to breath easier ?  (I really need to get out, walk a mile a day, between winter and coronavirus have gotten utterly out of condition ;-( )

    Stay healthy and happy, take care of yourselves, and don’t take any wooden nickles !

  24. 24.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 21, 2020 at 3:27 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I see that orthography a lot. Isn’t it hard to type?

    I see a lot on Reddit, mostly. And yes it is. Especially on a phone. You have to change to upper case and lower case repeatedly. It’s almost worth it to see the result though

    Yes, I’m old. What’s it to you?

    Hey, you’re only as “old” as you feel. You’ve mentioned you’re 50 or so, right? That’s not that old honestly

  25. 25.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 21, 2020 at 3:28 pm

    @Baud:

    Nope. I just type it out that way like a moron lol

  26. 26.

    Heidi Mom

    April 21, 2020 at 3:29 pm

    @randy khan: Tom Hanks said that the effect of hydroxychloroquine on his wife, Rita Wilson, was nausea so extreme that she couldn’t stand up and had to crawl from the bed to the bathroom.  And now she knows that it was all for nothing.

  27. 27.

    BR

    April 21, 2020 at 3:29 pm

    @randy khan:

    This is about the 6th study that showed no benefit from hydroxychloroquine.  It’s probably time to stop studying it and try something else.  (And it’s worth noting that the early studies showed only benefits for people with mild cases, so it wasn’t saving any lives.)

    University of Arizona put out guidelines for natural remedies that may help prevent a mild case of COVID-19 from progressing to a severe case.  Many of these were found to help with SARS.  There was a book written on such remedies a few years ago, and it covered these and a few more.

    Here’s their writeup:

    https://integrativemedicine.arizona.edu/file/72354/Integrative+Considerations+during+the+COVID+3.18.20.pdf

    Main suggestions are Licorice root, quercetin, zinc, turmeric, ginger, boneset, astragalus, melatonin, and a few others.  Elderberry and vitamin D appear helpful before symptoms but could exacerbate things once symptoms appear and should be stopped at that time.

  28. 28.

    Barbara

    April 21, 2020 at 3:31 pm

    @Leto: I also think it was wrong, but it’s worth mentioning that these drugs have been used safely for a long time.  Though not without side effects, these are typically associated with longer term use.  I took this drug for close to two years with no side effects at all.  I think (hope) doctors would have balked at using a drug that had actually never been finally approved or with a spottier track record.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    April 21, 2020 at 3:32 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Googling found this (I’ve never typed that way mYSelF).

    https://convertcase.net/

  30. 30.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 21, 2020 at 3:32 pm

    @Mandalay: To be fair, he couldn’t pronounce remdesivir.

  31. 31.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    April 21, 2020 at 3:36 pm

    @JAFD:

    I heard Cuomo talking about this a few days ago (time is blurry). He said if you’re by yourself on your walk, you don’t need the mask, but have it handy so if you approach a crossroads or something with other people, then you can put it on. Mask advice seems to change over time so I don’t know if that’s still the thinking.

  32. 32.

    catclub

    April 21, 2020 at 3:36 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Hey, you’re only as “old” as you feel.

     

    also, You’re only as old as the person you’re feeling up.

  33. 33.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 3:38 pm

    So that’s another ad that just wrote itself for Biden.

  34. 34.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 3:38 pm

    “…and they end up dying from from problems.  You know the problems I’m talking about.”

    Did anyone see the Soviet shitpile mobster manchild say this live?  Was it met with shocked silence? Because HOLY SHIT!

  35. 35.

    germy

    April 21, 2020 at 3:39 pm

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/naturopaths-exploit-covid-19-with-unproven-treatments-and-self-promotion/

  36. 36.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 3:40 pm

    Orthography…

    [writes that down in my “Learn Something New Every Day” notebook]

  37. 37.

    HAL

    April 21, 2020 at 3:40 pm

    This whole Nancy Pelosi ice cream nonsense seems to be propagated by some Sanders supporters, conservatives and whole lot of bots. But it’s seriously annoying for actual real progressives to be pushing this nonsense as a substitute for Bernie as president.

  38. 38.

    germy

    April 21, 2020 at 3:40 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:  Yes, i saw it.  It was during one of his briefings.

  39. 39.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 3:41 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Hey, you’re only as “old” as you feel.

    I must have passed away some time recently…

  40. 40.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 3:43 pm

    @HAL: Appropriate reply: “20 million newly unemployed, tens of thousands of deaths, a lawless, incompetent president at the helm of it all, and you wanna talk about a comedy sketch that misfired?”

  41. 41.

    dmsilev

    April 21, 2020 at 3:43 pm

    @Mandalay:

    I vividly recall Trump asking “What have you got to lose?” when promoting this drug.

    Well now we know: your life.

    Yes, but did you lose your money? That’s what’s really important to them.

  42. 42.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 21, 2020 at 3:45 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Hey, you’re only as “old” as you feel.

    Something young folk say.

  43. 43.

    Peale

    April 21, 2020 at 3:46 pm

    @JAFD: For online ordering of groceries, you just have to try until you find the sweet time when they open up the next available day. Always have your list ready, or at least with some items. If your shoprite uses instacart, you can always go back in to “edit” your oder, adding and dropping things, then recheckout your order until they start shopping for it. But it is necessary to order “something” to get that coveted slot.

    It took me a while to find that time when the schedule opens, but at the store I use, the slots open up for deliveries six days out between 5:30am and 6:00am and are usually full by 6:30am.  At least now I don’t have to get up every hour on the hour to get a slot.

  44. 44.

    Shana

    April 21, 2020 at 3:48 pm

    @Kent: He has a club in the Virginia suburbs and golf clubs were never closed down.  I guess because people could easily social distance and it’s outdoors.  Trump’s gone to that club a number of times and, AIR, the photo of the woman on her bike flipping off his motorcade was from one of the trips to that club.

  45. 45.

    Mike in NC

    April 21, 2020 at 3:48 pm

    The world and the country are suffering through a horrific pandemic, with no end remotely in sight, and the imbecile sitting in the White House is literally a fucking snake oil salesman.

  46. 46.

    Quaker in a Basement

    April 21, 2020 at 3:49 pm

    @BR:

    Main suggestions are Licorice root, quercetin, zinc, turmeric, ginger, 

    Really good news if you like Indian food!

  47. 47.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    April 21, 2020 at 3:52 pm

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: literally

  48. 48.

    BR

    April 21, 2020 at 3:53 pm

    @Quaker in a Basement:

    I wish there were more studies done of natural remedies because they’re widely available (some are literally weeds, like boneset) and have been used for hundreds or thousands of years so their safety is relatively well understood.  But they aren’t cure-alls the way we normally expect, nor is anyone going to make big money off of them.

  49. 49.

    danielx

    April 21, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    for the orange shitbag, it’s always about the ratings. For It, ratings = approval. By that measure, Nixon’s resignation speech was the high point of his presidency.

  50. 50.

    Chief Oshkosh

    April 21, 2020 at 3:56 pm

    @randy khan: There have been no full-on, controlled, prospective studies yet. This most recent study is retrospective, and as pointed out by many, it doesn’t take into account whether patients put on HC were in the worst shape to begin with.

  51. 51.

    Origuy

    April 21, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Funny thing about Cuomo’s statement. He said that you can walk around with your mask down, but pull it up if John Campbell comes out of the bushes. I’m sure he picked that name at random, but there’s a orienteer named Jon Campbell that is pretty well known. His son was listening to Cuomo when he heard that and said “Hey, the governor knows Dad!”

  52. 52.

    bemused

    April 21, 2020 at 4:03 pm

    Cuomo is meeting with trump at WH. I hope he wears a mask and gloves.

  53. 53.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    April 21, 2020 at 4:04 pm

    @Origuy: LOL. Who knew Dad was so important!

  54. 54.

    MisterForkbeard

    April 21, 2020 at 4:05 pm

    @HAL: Nancy Pelosi Ice Cream nonsense? I feel like I’ve mercifully missed something but now I’m curious enough to ask.

    What the hell are they talking about?

  55. 55.

    Leto

    April 21, 2020 at 4:05 pm

    @Barbara: I know they have; I took anti-malaria pills for close to a year while I was in Iraq (same pills, right?). It’s just a thing with me because vets can be seen as disposable. The government has a track record with us, like so many others.

  56. 56.

    Jeffro

    April 21, 2020 at 4:05 pm

    @Barbara: Yup.  Until there’s a lot more ‘opening up’, he won’t do it – too risky.

    Y’all really should read Catherine Rampell’s piece today.  All of this ‘open up’ and ‘LIBERATE x and y!’ is just his hail mary.  He knows he’s going down the tubes and can’t do anything to move his numbers in a good direction.  The Great Shame is coming, lil’ Donnie.

  57. 57.

    JoyceH

    April 21, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    Since so many people are going to get this virus and the vaccine is at least a year a way, I hope doctors will find better ways to treat it than just slapping on a ventilator and hope the patient lives. Something I’ve seen in the past week or so is that doctors are having success with ‘prone positioning’ – moving the patient from their back to their front. Like sleeping on your stomach. Apparently it’s easier to breathe from this position (the lungs being closer to your back than your chest), and often patients don’t require ventilation if this is done.

  58. 58.

    The Thin Black Duke

    April 21, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    @bemused: I hope he’s wearing boxing gloves.

  59. 59.

    MisterForkbeard

    April 21, 2020 at 4:07 pm

    @bemused: Oh, I don’t know. It’d serve Trump right if Cuomo went up and just coughed in his face.

  60. 60.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:11 pm

    @M31:

    LOL the auction site had the Trump montage estimated to sell for “$525-1050” HAHAHAHAHA nice try suckers 

    That auction site needs to post ads on Gun-Humping Chumps Anonymous.

  61. 61.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 4:12 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: It’s the “granite countertops” of the moment.

  62. 62.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 4:12 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: She did an interview with a late night comedian, and said that her way of coping with the pandemic was to have a freezer full of ice-cream.

    Bros got upset because

    NP has an expensive fridge

    She stocks good ice-cream

    She wears nice clothes even at home.

    I think they are full of shit and just jealous.

  63. 63.

    Gravenstone

    April 21, 2020 at 4:13 pm

    @bemused: 

    Cuomo is meeting with trump at WH. I hope he wears an mask and gloves encapsulated suit and breathing air.

    I want him to scare Trump absolutely shitless, walking in wearing full level A PPE.

  64. 64.

    Tenar Arha

    April 21, 2020 at 4:17 pm

    @JAFD: not walking with a mask wo people is probably okay, but if you’re going to be near people pulling it up & down from your face to your neck is apparently bad mask wearing practice. So if you can pull it on & off by the straps & not touch your face at all until you wash your hands that’s your best option.

    The CDC guidance is vague, but I’ve both started out my walks with mine & just kept it on, & also tried starting out by not wearing it & then putting it on, trying to only touch & carry it by the ear loops if I decide to take it off after.

  65. 65.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    That said, I think it represents his feelings.  He feels trapped at the White House.  His clubs are shut down, people are reluctant to go to coronavirus parties Nuremberg rallies, and everyone is demanding he actually do his job full time. 

    Waaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t want the job of President, just the ass-kissing that I think I deserve!

    65,853,516 voters: Then resign, and take Dense with you, Putin’s bitch!

  66. 66.

    Kent

    April 21, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    @JoyceH:Since so many people are going to get this virus and the vaccine is at least a year a way, I hope doctors will find better ways to treat it than just slapping on a ventilator and hope the patient lives. Something I’ve seen in the past week or so is that doctors are having success with ‘prone positioning’ – moving the patient from their back to their front. Like sleeping on your stomach. Apparently it’s easier to breathe from this position (the lungs being closer to your back than your chest), and often patients don’t require ventilation if this is done.

    In an average year the CDC estimates that over 50 million Americans catch the flu.  And that is with (1) a vaccine available, and (2) a LESS contagious virus than covid-19.

    If covid-19 becomes as widespread as the flu in any normal year then we are talking about 50 million x 3% CFR = 1.5 million deaths.

    But hey, it’s just like the flu.  Let’s open the country back up.

  67. 67.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 4:19 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I think they are full of shit and just jealous can only cope with Bernie’s loss by going full tilt scorched earth.

    Make no mistake, they are going to do everything they can to sabotage Biden, and they will not be reasoned with. We MUST not let them win the battle of perceptions, the pushback needs to be serious and vigorous. This isn’t just a sideshow, they are going to try to do real damage.

  68. 68.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 4:22 pm

    @different-church-lady: I agree with you. How do we take them on. I block them on sight. I think the Tara Reade business has Putin’s paw prints all over it.

  69. 69.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 4:23 pm

    @JoyceH:

    Apparently it’s easier to breathe from this position (the lungs being closer to your back than your chest), and often patients don’t require ventilation if this is done.

    With my recent bout of (supposedly non-COVID-19) pneumonia I found this to be true. The slightest leaning back would lead to coughing fits, and sometimes I would fall asleep sitting in bed with my upper body slumped forward on two or three pillows. Back or side sleeping was simply out of the question.

  70. 70.

    Just Chuck

    April 21, 2020 at 4:24 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Imagine what a humungous piece of shit you have to be

    … and it won’t come close to the piece of shit you’d actually have to be to even approximate Trump.

  71. 71.

    Betty Cracker

    April 21, 2020 at 4:25 pm

    @Jeffro: Second the recommendation of Rampell’s column. Trump and his sycophants are absolutely gambling  with our lives. It’s a pretty damned pointless gamble too because even if we disregard epidemiologists’ advice and reopen without the testing, tracking and tracing regime that’s needed to reopen responsibly, the economy is in shambles and isn’t going to bounce back in time to save Trump’s stupid ass.

  72. 72.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 4:27 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Since I don’t tweet, and I have no insane Bernie-folk in my life, I don’t really know. We don’t really get many Bernie trolls here, and when we do we know how to take care of them.

    I guess I would recommend that those who do interact say something like I recommended above: “20 million newly unemployed, tens of thousands of deaths, and you want to talk about (bullshit toy-item X)?” Don’t treat it like it’s cute, treat it like it’s deadly serious and they’re the one not taking it that way.

  73. 73.

    VeniceRiley

    April 21, 2020 at 4:27 pm

    I think Irvine has finally stocked up all the hoarders.  I have been unsuccessful in getting delivery slots from Whole foods, or pickup slots at Vons. I haven’t been to a store since the day before lockdown.  Yesterday evening I went back to WF and there as no line to get in and maybe 2 shoppers ahead of me at register.  Plenty of product: meats and veggies and cheese etc.  making low carb tortilla tacos tonight!

  74. 74.

    bemused

    April 21, 2020 at 4:29 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    LOL

  75. 75.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 4:31 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    Many of these people are not even American citizens. There is a fair number of lefties on Indian Twitter I follow because of my interest in Indian politics who are into the socialist Grandpa and fighting for his honor against meanie Dems.

    BS has a large international fan following which has a cartoonish at best understanding of our politics.

  76. 76.

    Elizabelle

    April 21, 2020 at 4:31 pm

    I wonder if Andrew Cuomo is going to be one of the Trump hostages at today’s presser

    Who are not allowed to maintain any social distance from the noxious one in chief.

  77. 77.

    bemused

    April 21, 2020 at 4:32 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    I would love to see that! I’m pretty sure Cuomo with all his facts, data and snark terrifies him already.

  78. 78.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    April 21, 2020 at 4:32 pm

    I just saw a Bloomberg report that the WH has ordered federal agencies to get their workers back to the office.

  79. 79.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:33 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    The world and the country are suffering through a horrific pandemic, with no end remotely in sight, and the imbecile sitting in the White House is literally a fucking snake oil salesman. 

    Yeah, but Mike, at least 10s of millions of non-voters didn’t have to live through 4 years of (whiny voice) Ewww!!! Hillary!

  80. 80.

    Ohio Mom

    April 21, 2020 at 4:34 pm

    Leto @55: Yes, it’s the same drug. I take it for RA. The printout my pharmacy staples on the bag has two sets of instructions/warnings, one if you are taking it for malaria and one if you are taking it for an autoimmune condition.

    It is, as meds go, on the benign side. It does screw up heart rhythms in some people, particularly in combination with other meds for various other conditions.

    I am glad this wild goose chase of Trump’s is nearing an end, now I won’t have to worry that there will be a shortage when it’s time to renew my prescription.

  81. 81.

    Miss Bianca

    April 21, 2020 at 4:35 pm

    @JoyceH: TaMara had a post up the other day where she highlighted a British doctor talking about that, and demonstrating breathing techniques to use. While she was updating us about her own brush with COVID-19. : (

  82. 82.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:37 pm

    @bemused: Fuck that.  Full-on hazmat for Gov Cuomo.  He’s meeting with a toxic shitpile.

    Wash your hands like a surgeon afterwards, Governor!

  83. 83.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 21, 2020 at 4:38 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I half- follow Bernie-twitter through Ragnarok Lobster, and they’re falling all over themselves to congratulate trump on a doctored video of Biden, and lamenting that Bernie was too noble and principled to do the same thing, in their apparent conviction that winning the primary not only would have made Bernie president– not in November, not in January, now, somehow– but would have made BernieCare the law of the land and the ‘rona would be cured.

    The core of magical thinking– a nice way of saying “stupidity”– around which the Bernie fantasies were built is amazing, and under-acknowledged.

  84. 84.

    bemused

    April 21, 2020 at 4:40 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I can’t imagine working at the WH and having to be around trump toxicity daily. Then again, only other toxic, bastard people would take a job there.

  85. 85.

    bemused

    April 21, 2020 at 4:41 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    OMG, just thinking of shaking trump’s hand makes me nauseous.

  86. 86.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:41 pm

    @Jeffro: Why doesn’t Dump take to Twitter to call the virus a total loser, then grab it by the pussy, then threaten to sue it?

    Oh right!  Because it’s a virus!

  87. 87.

    Ocotillo

    April 21, 2020 at 4:42 pm

    Is it just me or has the 27% from the Bush years grown to the low 40s nowadays?  This country is doomed if nearly half of it is batshit insane.

  88. 88.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:43 pm

    @bemused: Ok, delousing, and several hot showers, Gov! ?

  89. 89.

    FelonyGovt

    April 21, 2020 at 4:43 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: This is horrifying. I wonder if he actually has the power to do this or if it’s up to the various department heads.

  90. 90.

    Leto

    April 21, 2020 at 4:44 pm

    @Ohio Mom: That’s the other thing, people who actually fucking need it. We’re wasting meds because he has a stake in the company. The corruption is just non-stop.

  91. 91.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 4:45 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke: But Dump might be wearing baby boxing gloves!

  92. 92.

    Mandalay

    April 21, 2020 at 4:45 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I wonder the extent to which these “Open Up” rallies were staged as trial balloons to see how many people he could get to show up if he went back on the campaign trail.

    I think a lot of what promotes outrage here is a carefully crafted trial balloon: Stephen Moore’s “Rosa Parks” moment, Kayleigh McEnany’s “Mr President” tweet and Bill O’Reilly’s “last legs anyway” comment are all recent examples.

    There is no way that any of those comments were the author unwittingly revealing their true persona. All three of them are far too crafty for that to be true.

    And while they may appear to rally the base, and “trigger the libtards”, I think their true purpose is to act as trial balloons. They want to see what sticks, what offends, how far the envelope can be pushed, and what will be helpful in the campaign.

    And if you want to label that strategy “a vast right wing conspiracy”, I won’t stand in your way.

  93. 93.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 4:46 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: As I said many of the BSers are not even American. The journobros have fewer excuses for the magical thinking. Alex Pareene, Chris Hayes  and many others are in that list.

  94. 94.

    WaterGirl

    April 21, 2020 at 4:48 pm

    @Leto:

    Sweet, using vets as guinea pigs. That’s just awesome.

    Guessing that’s not on the recruiting posters.

  95. 95.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 4:49 pm

     

     

    @HAL:  Cannot speak for normal people, but if the nomenklatura haven’t cut the bullshit and got with the program by now, they’re not progressives.

    They’re strasserites.

  96. 96.

    Kent

    April 21, 2020 at 4:50 pm

    @VeniceRiley:I think Irvine has finally stocked up all the hoarders.  I have been unsuccessful in getting delivery slots from Whole foods, or pickup slots at Vons. I haven’t been to a store since the day before lockdown.  Yesterday evening I went back to WF and there as no line to get in and maybe 2 shoppers ahead of me at register.  Plenty of product: meats and veggies and cheese etc.  making low carb tortilla tacos tonight!

    Around here immuno-compromised elderly types are going on the NextDoor App and getting local HS kids to do their shopping for them.  But then we are in kind of an affluent suburb with lots of neighborly stuff going on.

  97. 97.

    Elizabelle

    April 21, 2020 at 4:50 pm

    @Jeffro:   Put up some excerpts from that last night.

    Catherine Rampell in the WaPost:

    Trump has almost nothing to lose. That’s why he wants to reopen the economy.

    Public health experts worry that “reopening” the country too soon will be bad for public health. Economists worry it will be bad for the economy. The general public worries it will bad for, well, everyone.

    So why is President Trump agitating to do so anyway, even encouraging insurrection against his own administration’s stay-at-home guidance?

    Because it’s the only Hail Mary chance he has at reelection. And, sure, it probably won’t pay off. But just as he’s done his entire life, Trump has no problem gambling with other people’s money and well-being — even if the stakes could be fatal.

    …. That’s why he is encouraging protests against stay-at-home orders, even though his administration has recommended those orders, and even though the protests put more lives at risk as unmasked crowds cluster together. It might also be why he’s taken hostage fiscal aid that states and cities desperately need; the administration reportedly thinks that withholding aid can pressure states to reopen their economies sooner.

    Right now, Trump is a man with almost nothing to lose, and that makes him dangerous. He’s more than happy to risk the lives of the old, infirm or otherwise vulnerable, even if they’re his voters.

    …. As a political strategy, this is atrociously irresponsible. But it’s consistent with Trump’s pre-politics career, which involved getting himself into a hole; taking ever-bigger risks with other people’s money in the hopes that one of those long shots could get him out of the hole; and then, when he still couldn’t repay, blaming creditors for being foolish enough to lend to him. Given that he managed to persuade a major bank to lend him billions of dollars even after his first four corporate bankruptcies, perhaps his assignation of blame wasn’t entirely wrong.

    As a businessman, Trump successfully persuaded creditors to throw away good money after bad. As a politician, he may yet persuade states to risk more lives, and livelihoods, after so many have been lost already.

  98. 98.

    Leto

    April 21, 2020 at 4:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: “And just when you think your service has ended, think again!” – Uncle Sam

    One of the side effects of the malaria medicine was really disturbing nightmares. The doctors warned us about that. Fortunately I avoided that, but a few of my teammates didn’t. They basically stopped taking the meds, after about two-three months, rather than continue to deal with that side effect.

  99. 99.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 4:51 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    If she was wearing casual and using discount appliances they’d say she was pandeting, or call her a slob. Fuck ’em.

  100. 100.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 4:53 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Something my aunt used to say:

    “My brain is 35. My knees are 60.”

  101. 101.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 4:55 pm

    @Subsole:

    Oh I know that. I don’t bother to argue with them for the most part.

  102. 102.

    Another Scott

    April 21, 2020 at 4:56 pm

    @Shana: Newly elected county supervisor Juli Briskman flipped Donnie off.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-cyclist-who-flipped-off-trump-wins-loudoun-county-seat-representing-his-golf-club/2019/11/05/e8aa11dc-003d-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html

    Karma’s coming for you Donnie!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  103. 103.

    cain

    April 21, 2020 at 4:57 pm

    So blue checked folks are twitter have already breathlessly announced that Democrats have caved to Republicans on the new spending bill. Has someone gone through it and find out what the real story is? Cuz seriously we need to stop getting on the emo train.

    I am concerned that Dems were not able to get funding for the post office – and there seems to be other things they were not able to get.

    My speculation is that maybe they’ll wait for another spending bill when things get even worse to strengthen their hand.

    Also Barr seems to think that he can fuck with the states using his DOJ powers to force them to open them up.

  104. 104.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 4:58 pm

     

    @BR: Really? I figured that stuff would go gangbusters with the antivax crowd. You could sell them weeds from the park at a 200%+ markup and make an absolute killing. Literally, perhaps.

    Isn’t that essentially what Alex Jones and co. do?

  105. 105.

    Doug R

    April 21, 2020 at 4:58 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I saw that clip and noticed the fridge was very nice as was the ice cream. But she’s worked hard all her life and you don’t want to get between an 80 year old woman and her chocolate ice cream.

  106. 106.

    Mandalay

    April 21, 2020 at 5:00 pm

    Nobody could have predicted….

    President Trump’s signature hotel in the nation’s capital wants a break on the terms of its lease. The landlord determining the fate of the request is Mr. Trump’s own administration.
    Trump International Hotel, just a few blocks from the White House, had been a favored gathering place for lobbyists, foreign dignitaries and others hoping to score points with the president. But like most hotels, it is now nearly empty and looking to cut costs because of the coronavirus pandemic.
    In recent weeks, the president’s family business has inquired about changing its lease payments, according to people familiar with the matter, which the federal government has reported amount to nearly $268,000 per month.

  107. 107.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 5:02 pm

    @Mandalay:

    There is no way that any of those comments were the author unwittingly revealing their true personas. All three of them are far too crafty for that to be true.

    Not a believer in Hanlon’s razor, eh?

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    April 21, 2020 at 5:02 pm

    @Heidi Mom: All the while, people like Mary G. who fucking need that drug for it’s original purpose, have to do without.  So people like Tom Hanks or his wife can have it, or so Trump can have his personal stockpile that makes him feel safe somehow.

    Please assume the word “livid” is in all caps, huge type, and is flashing red.

  109. 109.

    trollhattan

    April 21, 2020 at 5:02 pm

    @HAL:

    I don’t care a whit about the ice cream but I sure as hell would love those fridges! Yes, yes, I’m an elite. But unlike the classic Huckabee elite, and Huckabee himself, I’m not coastal so my life sucks. Hence, I deserve those fridges.

  110. 110.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 5:02 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:  What’s the genesis of that? Pushback against Modi, or what? I thought socialism was kind of heavily frowned upon in Indian politics, due to the Naxalites.

    But then my understanding of Indian politics is sketchy at best.

  111. 111.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 5:03 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I honestly hate those smarmy little media fucks more than I hate Trump.

  112. 112.

    Jinchi

    April 21, 2020 at 5:05 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I feel like I’ve mercifully missed something but now I’m curious enough to ask.

    I was thinking the same thing, but I was worried we’d all become dumber just from listening to the answer.

  113. 113.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 5:07 pm

    @Subsole: They fancy themselves to be class warriors, Marxists and such.  Twitter is not representative of the polity.

    ETA: FWIW India not only has socialist parties but even communist parties, yes there is more than one. BJP is not dominant in all states. India is a large country.

  114. 114.

    PAM Dirac

    April 21, 2020 at 5:10 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    There have been no full-on, controlled, prospective studies yet. This most recent study is retrospective, and as pointed out by many, it doesn’t take into account whether patients put on HC were in the worst shape to begin with.

    It is very true that retrospective studies make it very difficult to control for choices that defined the different groups, but it is possible to do some analyses. This paper has over 50 other measurements associated with each patient and they did use this data to make an attempt to adjust for the condition of the patients in different groups.

    From the paper:

    Baseline demographic and comorbidity characteristics were comparable across the three
    treatment groups. However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely
    to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status
    and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed
    in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin. Nevertheless,
    the increased risk of overall mortality in the hydroxychloroquine-only group persisted after
    adjusting for the propensity of being treated with the drug. That there was no increased risk of ventilation in the hydroxychloroquine-only group suggests that mortality in this group might be
    attributable to drug effects on or dysfunction in non-respiratory vital organ systems. Indeed,
    hydroxychloroquine use in Covid-19 patients has been associated with cardiac toxicity.

    It certainly doesn’t prove that the drugs led to worse outcomes, but it also doesn’t give you much confidence that drugs were doing anything useful.

  115. 115.

    Fair Economist

    April 21, 2020 at 5:11 pm

    @VeniceRiley: I have been surprised how few shoppers I’m encountering at my local Albertson’s. It’s fewer than usual even though people should be buying more food at grocery stores overall. They’re closing at 9 and the store is almost empty by then. Normally there would be more than this at 11.

  116. 116.

    Jeffro

    April 21, 2020 at 5:14 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: I dunno, but he keeps calling it the Invisible Enemy…you know, like a second-grader would…

    I’m still waiting for the Dems to buy 10 minutes of airtime (or just offer up a babbling orange clown and get the airtime for free; it seems to work for the GOP) and walk the American public through ‘trumpov’s toolbox’

    “When he gets all racist and stuff: that’s an indication he’s in mortal fear of losing part of his base/losing the election”

    “When he calls a news report or political attack ‘boring’, that means it’s dead-on accurate and in any normal timeline, he would be forced to resign”

    “When he attacks the news media [run Lesley Stahl clip of him explaining he does it to discredit their future stories]”

    And so on…

  117. 117.

    Jeffro

    April 21, 2020 at 5:15 pm

    @FelonyGovt: He can do whatever he wants…I would imagine that many of these workers can ask to work from home and/or take (quite a bit of) sick leave…

  118. 118.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 5:15 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Twitter is not representative of the polity.

    That’s true, but the problem is Twitter drives the media. A Twitter army can drive bullshit into the willing arms of mainstream outlets all too easily.

  119. 119.

    different-church-lady

    April 21, 2020 at 5:17 pm

    @Fair Economist: Everyone’s moved to on-line ordering and home delivery.

  120. 120.

    Jeffro

    April 21, 2020 at 5:17 pm

    @Elizabelle: Thanks!

    So easy to see right through this desperate, deranged clown…

  121. 121.

    Jeffro

    April 21, 2020 at 5:20 pm

    @Mandalay: Never. Again.

    Seriously, where is the legislation (maybe the House has already passed it, and it’s sitting outside Mitch’s door?) that prohibits Congresspersons, Senators, and the president* from owning anything but blind trusts?

    Divest/blind trust/whatever the technical term is by your swearing-in, or forfeit the office immediately to your opponent.

    Goes for businesses, stocks, real estate, all of it.

  122. 122.

    raven

    April 21, 2020 at 5:22 pm

    Here’s our mayor, really good dude.

  123. 123.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 21, 2020 at 5:23 pm

    Probably.

    Brian Kemp's going to kill more Georgians than General Sherman— Adam Weinstein (@AdamWeinstein) April 20, 2020

  124. 124.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 5:25 pm

    @different-church-lady: It does drive the media because most journalists are on Twitter 24/7. They have the blue ticks and huge followings.

  125. 125.

    Jerry

    April 21, 2020 at 5:26 pm

    An April 6th Detroit Free Press article on state rep Karen Whitsett recovering from Covid-19:

    Detroit rep says hydroxychloroquine, Trump helped save her life amid COVID-19 fight

  126. 126.

    Jinchi

    April 21, 2020 at 5:28 pm

    @Jeffro: he keeps calling it the Invisible Enemy

    Are we sure he’s talking about the coronavirus? Because whenever he says this:

    I want all Americans to understand: we are at war with an invisible enemy, but that enemy is no match for the spirit and resolve of the American people…

    I get the feeling he’s talking about a group of 5th columnists, led by Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and “that woman from Michigan”. I know most rational people would assume he was referring to the virus, but this would hardly be the first time that what Trump meant isn’t what every rational person assumed he meant.

  127. 127.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 21, 2020 at 5:36 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: twitter drives more than just the media. I think Biden’s the nominee because so many other top-line candidates fell into that trap of thinking that twitter volume (so to speak) and on-line name recognition meant widespread public support

  128. 128.

    J R in WV

    April 21, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    @Subsole:

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Something my aunt used to say:

    “My brain is 35. My knees are 60.”

    My brain is 69~! The rest of my body is….69 ~!!~

    Holy Cow, Batman . . . I must be 69 already ~!!~ How the F’ did that happen?!?!?!?!

  129. 129.

    chopper

    April 21, 2020 at 5:41 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    so trump has finally figured out a way to lower the number of government employees; force them to go back to the office and get covid.

  130. 130.

    WaterGirl

    April 21, 2020 at 5:52 pm

    @Leto: Ugh, nightmares.  Thanks for your service, now please don’t squeal too loudly when we use you as a guinea pig because that would make us look bad.  Talk about conscription.

  131. 131.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 21, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    @Leto: Hey, you volunteered.

  132. 132.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 21, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yep that’s why everyone from KH to EW ran to embrace the M4All idiocy.

  133. 133.

    debbie

    April 21, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    @Heidi Mom:

    I’ve been on hydroxychloroquine since 1987. Extreme nausea isn’t part of it. There was something going on Covid-related that resulted in that reaction in Rita Wilson.

    In fact, I stopped taking it a couple of years ago. It took a couple of weeks before I started feeling any of the pains I’d started taking it for. I started taking it again and it took more than a month to start feeling better again.

    All this talk about a miracle cure in 24 hours is clearly placebo only.

    Also, has no one mentioned Trump’s an investor in the pharmaceutical producing Plaquenil?

  134. 134.

    Leto

    April 21, 2020 at 6:14 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Haha <3

  135. 135.

    debbie

    April 21, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    @Doug R:

    And she’s a grandma! Grandmas always have good stuff to eat!

  136. 136.

    Calouste

    April 21, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    @Doug R:

    Also, if the cosplay communists on twitter knew any history (stop laughing!), they would know that the socialist parties in the late 19th-early 20th centuries pushed for parliamentarians to be paid, and to be paid fairly well, because before that time parliamentarians didn’t get paid, so only the rich could afford to be in parliament, not members of the working class or even the middle class.

    So yes, someone who’s been in Congress for what is it, 40 years, should be able to afford a nice fridge and some ice cream.

  137. 137.

    Subsole

    April 21, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @J R in WV:  Lol.

    Also, Niice.

  138. 138.

    lgerard

    April 21, 2020 at 6:36 pm

    Wayne LaPierre complaining that the NRA has lost 100 million due to ongoing legal problems bemoans the “power of weaponized government.”

    You’ll take it from our cold dead hands asshole

  139. 139.

    Achrachno

    April 21, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    @BR: I don’t know.  I’m skeptical of the natural remedies because I doubt many of them have been tested properly.  Elderberry, for example: the whole plant is dangerously toxic, except for the ripe fruits.

  140. 140.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 21, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    @Achrachno: Elderberries?  For some reason they remind me of my mother.

  141. 141.

    Another Scott

    April 21, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Obligatory…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  142. 142.

    randy khan

    April 21, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Or, put differently, there’s no evidence from controlled full-on studies that it provides any benefit.

    Of course, randomized double-blind studies are the gold standard, and what you want to do when you can.  But in the middle of pandemic, you don’t always get to make those kinds of choices, and when the studies that are done repeatedly show no apparent benefit, it’s not obvious why you should keep trying instead of moving on to other things.

    My suspicion is that there may be some cohort of patients who might benefit – that’s really what the early studies that triggered Trump’s endorsement suggest – but that it’s not a sovereign cure or even something that will help most patients.

  143. 143.

    WaterGirl

    April 21, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    @randy khan:

    there may be some cohort of patients who might benefit

    But we apparently have no idea what or who that is.  Is this like the Salem witch trials?  If they drown they are witches?  If they die, they didn’t deserve to live?

    Not directed at you.  Directed at the sociopaths who are running the federal government.

  144. 144.

    pluky

    April 21, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @BR: How to use them safely might be understood, but “natural” <> “safe”. Mother Nature has some potentially nasty stuff in her pharmacopoeia.  After all, ’tis the dose that makes the poison.

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