Time for more thread, I think.
In the continuing celebration, here’s a little nugget that is giving me an unreasonable satisfaction.
With Mark Kelly’s victory in the AZ senate race, Martha McSally has a truly distinctive achievement to call her own.
She is a sitting senator who has lost two consecutive election.
Let us savor.
Open thread.
*It’s not clear that I was ever very nice…but the last 20 years (at least) of the Republican Party have taken their toll.
PS: It is not out of the question that this post was conceived as a vehicle for that image, which so warms the cockles of my embittered heart.
Image:  Paulus Moreelse, The Laughing Philosopher,  before 1639.
Cheryl Rofer
I just put this into the last thread, but will share here too.
Tom Levenson
@Cheryl Rofer: This is an unequivocally good thing.
SFAW
Did McSally EVER win a senate seat? I thought she was only there because she was named to fill a slot. [Not disagreeing with you, just trying to confirm my increasingly-spotty recollections.]
Joe Falco
It looks like you can only fail upward long enough to eventually fail back down again.
SFAW
@Tom Levenson:
You may want to consult with Tikka — who will likely not be amused — before making such a brash/rash statement.
Tom Levenson
@SFAW: She never won. She was, I believe, a representative who lost to Sinema, and then was appointed to McCain’s seat, which she has now lost to Kelly.
SFAW
@Tom Levenson:
Well, at least THAT part of my memory is still intact, Todd.
Tom Levenson
@SFAW: Tikka knows that our white house is a dog free zone.
Suzanne
Seeing Biden’s dogs makes me so happy. The last four years has just been a black hole where anything that provided national joy was sucked away.
And McSally needs to go back to her hole.
SFAW
@Tom Levenson:
Understood. The idea is that you were encouraging dog lovers, which might not sit well.
JPL
Down in GA we’ll hoping to send Loeffler home.
dr. bloor
Balloon Juice: come for the pet pix, stay for the vengeance art.
Suzanne
@SFAW: McSally was appointed to fill in McCain’s seat until it could go to a special election, which is what Mark Kelly just won. Before that, she ran for Jeff Flake’s seat against Kyrsten Sinema and lost. Before that, both Sinema and McSally were reps. McSally held the seat once held by Gabrielle Giffords and then Ron Barber, who was Giffords’ aide when she was shot. Barber won once, then lost the seat to McSally the next time.
So not only did McSally lose, the Giffords/Kelly team kicked her ass BACK THE FUCK OUT.
dr. bloor
@Suzanne: I’ll bet those doggos would be more than happy to assist in removing any unwanted guests when they move in on 1/21/21.
dr. luba
In Michigan we have a similar situation–John James has been rejected twice now, 2018 and 2020. Â All those DeVos dollars down the drain.
He was never appointed to the Senate, though. Just GOP nominee.
Tom Levenson
@JPL: I will do what I can from the Hub of the Universe to make that happen.
mrmoshpotato
To jail with the murderous, orange, Soviet shitpile!
SiubhanDuinne
@Cheryl Rofer:
Champ and Major! Canât ask for better than that.
Phylllis
I’ve been busting it all morning at work and only just saw the news about PA and my President. Seriously in tears here at my desk.
Cheryl Rofer
Suzanne
@Suzanne: AND AND AND, should be noted that the area that is now in AZ District 2 is what was Giffords’s district (boundaries shifted due to redistricting). District 2 just re-elected a Dem, Ann Kirkpatrick.
So: FUCK OFF, McSally.
dmsilev
I’m seeing some news reports that Biden is planning a prime-time TV address tonight. Adjust your schedules accordingly.
mrmoshpotato
@JPL:
Fixed. No charge in honor of Fuck off, you fucking orange fascist Friday.
Sloane Petersons knee therapist
Don’t count her out yet. Marshall of Tombstone could be an alley that McSally slides into. The Town Too Tough To Die.
Suzanne
@dr. bloor: Maybe they can mark their territory. On someone’s leg.
SiubhanDuinne
@Cheryl Rofer:
The next 7h13m are going to be difficult.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Suzanne: Because this is a special election, Kelly joins the Senate on November 30.
BruceFromOhio
Is that Bon Scott? It sure looks like him, or a bit like him, anyway. He was a laughing, shouting philosopher.
Suzanne
@Dorothy A. Winsor: YEP.
McSally is trash. She keeps running and losing. Take the hint, Martha.
SiubhanDuinne
https://youtu.be/ElrwhPiNxtE
@Sloane Petersons knee therapist:
Mai Naem mobile
I don’t pity her but I don’t believe Martha McSally was a RWNJ. Her district was known for electing moderates going back to McNulty and Kolbe. Her shift to the right was because the AZ GOP forced her to move right to win the primary. That is kind of what happened to Flake not resigning. This is what happens when your party turns into a bunch of purity ponies.
Eljai
@Suzanne: Wow, I did not know the full history. But now that I do, I am filled with a beautiful sense of wonder and optimism.
Scout211
There is talk of Stacy Abrams as our next DNC chair. That would be awesome, in my opinion.
But the Democratic Party needs to invest in a huge multi-media focus on changing people’s opinions of the Democratic party. With help from Fox News and foreign propaganda, Republicans have used social media to manipulate voters opinions of the entire party. We are so far behind in this . . .
opiejeanne
This is the latest status tweet from sooner grunt:
“No definitive dx yet. Slightly elevated level of something called troponon. Dr-“I’m not ready to say the words ‘heart attack'” Ekg “grossly normal.” Something odd on contrast CT-didn’t understand Stress test later.”
Meanwhile, he’s tweeting and retweeting recently.
Quinerly
Mayor of Philly just told Trump to put his “big boy pants on”
And do what Carter and George HW Bush did when in Trump’s position.
H-Bob
@Sloane Petersons knee therapist: But the gunfight occurred because the Earps were trying to take away the Clantons’ guns!
JustRuss
@Quinerly:Â It’s too bad it took lame-duckness to get pols and the media to call out Trump for what he is, but it’s nice to see it finally happening.
Tom, thanks for sharing that painting, it’s pretty awesome.
germy
patroclus
Pa. margin (pro-Biden) up to 12,497.
Suzanne
@Eljai: Kelly kicking McSally’s ass has a very circle-is-complete feel to it.
Though, honestly….. Gabby would have been running for that seat, had things been different. And that makes me more than a bit sad.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@opiejeanne: Sounds like SG’s in good hands.
FelonyGovt
So thrilled for Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords. And I’m feeling that about 50 pounds have been removed from my shoulders this morning.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Quinerly:
Narrator: He won’t.
Quinerly
@?BillinGlendaleCA: of course not. I just loved watching the Philly tough mayor say “big boy pants” in real time when a reporter questioned him.
germy
opiejeanne
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I think so. That report is about 5 hours old.
Wag
Iâm incredibly happy this morning  change is in the air and we have plenty of popcorn in the house  And a bottle of bubbly chilling in the refrigerator
I want to savor Trumpâs whimpering.
Great art, as always!
germy
Citizen Scientist
I guess at least you look like a nice person in your Twitter profile pic, Tom. Â ?
different-church-lady
@patroclus: Achivement 1 unlocked!
Quinerly
@JustRuss: people are just sick of Trump. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there are a lot of prominent members of House and Senate who didn’t vote for him. Of course, would never admit. I have truly wondered since McConnell got what he wanted re judges if he didn’t vote for Trump. McConnell has proven he can’t do actual governance… He prefers obstruction… But for those sweet, sweet judges.
MazeDancer
Q has not posted since election day.
The Watkins who “know” Q have resigned from Q’s online home of 8Kun.
Long been my theory Trump will take over QAnon. All those rich patsies to fleece.
Make it part of his media scheme. Insider knowledge all yours for the low, low Premiere Founders Price of just $10.99 monthly. Merch extra.
He might also reveal himself to be Q. Demi-god time.
mad citizen
Love that Kamala will be included tonight. I’m betting it gets high ratings.
I also recall how the Obamas hosted so many great musical artists at the WH (probably some of whom have retired or died). He even got Bob Dylan to do it, although IIRC Bob had the proviso for the TV camera to do no close-ups of him, so it was a static shot of the band pretty much the whole time.
germy
Princess is copypasting turtle.
dr. bloor
@Scout211: I think the story of this election isn’t about changing minds–very few were–but that when Democrats aren’t suppressed and get out to vote, Democrats win.
Nobody is better than Abrams at that.
Amir Khalid
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
A formal concession is merely a courtesy. If Trump refuses to concede, it will show that he has no class — but we all knew that already. What I fear is that Trump and his administration will now, out of spite, do everything they can to leave a mess behind for the incoming President and administration.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Think about shitforbrains having a dog. Poor dog. Having to be near that crappy of a human. And having to eat leftover McDs every day. Thatâs no life for such an honorable mammal.
grumbles
I was just thinking about this this morning. I think I became a Real American this election – I am beginning to savor my grudges.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
said it before, I’ll say it again: It is. fucking. supernatural. how there is. always. a fucking. tweet.
Quinerly
Speaking of NC:
North Carolinaâs first lady has apologized after a screenshot of her saying she âflipped offâ supporters of President Donald Trump during a rally in the state was circulated on social media.
https://www.carolinacoastonline.com/regional/article_167cae3a-204a-11eb-bd85-4bb16bc3ce45.html
Mike in NC
The Trump banners and yard signs began to disappear from our community yesterday. There are still a few out there belonging to the dead-enders (mostly retired cops who loved Trump’s appeals to white supremacy and police brutality).
pacem appellant
Genuine question: With Trump not on the ballot anymore, does this hurt or help Dems? I think the answer is yes to both, but it depends where. Trump really excites the maggot base (they love their fake news and fascism), so e.g. in GA in early Jan, nobody’s voting for Trump. Will they froth and rage against how they were “cheated” out of an electoral victory, or will they slump and stay home?
P.S. I peaked at FB today, something I hadn’t done since before the election, a member of my pipe band was lamenting how many dead people voted for Sleepy Joe. Christ knows what garbage he’s reading/watching, but it was disheartening. (And rather than reply, I muted him, which was very big of me, I must say)
Steve in the ATL
@Quinerly:
why the hell did she apologize? Everyone should be doing more of that. Fuck their feelings!
Starfish
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ocotillo
Who’s the hack now Martha?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It seems like they’ve already done that. But I suppose there is always trashing the White House with a keger.
rattle mullet
@SFAW: she has the sole distinction of being the only sitting senator to loose election twice.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
LOL! So true!
pacem appellant
@Amir Khalid: Do you recall the fake media sensation in 2001 when it was widely reported that the Clintons trashed the white house? A particular insidious lie was that WH staff had removed all the “W” keys from the keyboards. This was pure fantasy, of course, but there are no doubt a major of people who remember that era who believe this was true.
What do you want to bet that Trump actually does trash the white house (it’s not outside the realm of possibly that he might literally torch it), and even in the extreme case, our lazy press corps will just shrug it off?
Felanius Kootea
I just bought Stacey Abramsâ (non-fiction) book: âLead from the Outside: How to Build Your Future and Make Real Change.â
I might even buy all her romance novels too, but Iâm starting with that one. Â Great job!
JPL
@pacem appellant: Both republicans are supporting trump’s effort to steal the vote.  I’m sure the purpose of their donations is for him to hold rallies here for them.   The holidays hurt them though.
joel hanes
@Scout211:
But the Democratic Party needs to invest in a huge multi-media focus on changing peopleâs opinions of the Democratic party.
The Democratic Party needs to invest in a broad-based permanent organizing infrastructure with paid staffers whose jobs last for decades.  We could call it, oh, I dunno, maybe “The Fifty State Strategy” or something.   (or maybe, better, “Fuck You Rahm Emmanuel”)
Organizing works better and lasts longer than campaign ads.
Guess where the bulk of Dem political contributions goes.
mali muso
@Mike in NC: I noticed this too. Some of the MAGA signs in my area came down yesterday but a lot more were gone this morning. LOL
Dorothy A. Winsor
@pacem appellant: Trump fires up our base too. It’s hard to predict how his absence will affect turnout.
mrmoshpotato
@Quinerly: No pictures of the flipping off? âčïž
pacem appellant
@Steve in the ATL: 2016-2020 has awakened by inner thug. Juck ’em. We shouldn’t apologize. Juck going high. Aim for the knees and cap ’em. (figuratively)
joel hanes
Despite self-identified moral decay, Tom Levenson remains an infinitely better person than Martha McSally.
CaseyL
@Mike in NC: Nice to keep their signs up warning that a sadistic white supremacist lives there. Take note of who they are, if you haven’t already.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@pacem appellant: well the word is Trump fanbois are what saved Graham. I suspect why the polling was off was because of Trump fanbois who normally don’t participate in politics so the pollisters didn’t consider them likely voters. So I would say 2018 is probably a better model for the post Trump election future.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@pacem appellant: as a matter of politics and necessity, I think Dems should be moving forward on expanding health care. As of today, 10 million people have a pre-existing condition that doctors didn’t know existed a year ago. We have no freaking idea what the long-term side effects of Covid are. IANAD but I have seen some scary shit predicted, which I won’t repeat cause I don’t know how reliable said predictions are
between climate change and factory farming, we might well be entering an age of pandemics
Kent
Sounds like the AZ GOP is going down the same road as the CA GOP.  Idiots. It’s the flip side of turning over the Dem party to the Democratic Socialists in a swing state like PA. and then yelling 24/7 about Defund the Police and Socialized Medicine. Which we are hopefully not ever going to be stupid enough to do.
joel hanes
@opiejeanne:
soonergrunt is one of the commenters whom I most miss
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
PETER STRZOK
MICHAEL BENNET
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’d argue Dump pisses off our base.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@joel hanes: How about “Fifty Shades of States”?
It also sounds like more native American involvement is in order with the Dems.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: and a THROATWARBLER MANGROVE to you too!
mrmoshpotato
@Kent:
On three!
1…
2…
3…
SAD! and fuck ’em!
Seanly
I am very excited that as of right now, Biden should be at 295 EC votes.
One thing I haven’t heard though is about the issue of a Republican legislature sitting electors who just vote for Trump anyway. I had seen some worried articles about that before Lindsey Graham brought it up a couple of nights ago.
The articles I saw made it seem like this was something that state legislatures could do. I know that PA Republican leadership have said they won’t do something like that, but is that a valid path to steal the Presidency?
When are the results going to be called? We can’t protect Trump’s fragile ego forever…
pacem appellant
@Dorothy A. Winsor:Â @mrmoshpotato: Good points. Will Georgians sit out the Jan run-off because they’re exhausted and don’t want to think about Trump anymore?
prostratedragon
bluehill
@Quinerly: With Senate control up in the air because of the GA runoffs, Mitch is walking a fine line. He needs those seats and he needs some of those Trump voters. Will be interesting to see how he manages this. Meanwhile, Lincoln Project already has spot up for Ossoff
CaseyL
What this election proved is that voter suppression is real – yes, we already knew that, but it needed to be shouted for the morons in the back rows. Let people vote without having to navigate efforts to keep them from voting (long lines, few to no polling stations, having to fit it in on a workday), and they DO.
Maybe a Biden Administration could press for all VBM for all states, with votes to be scanned as they come in, so the results are available on Election Night.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Get a room!
mad citizen
The Dems need to start defining the debate. Refer to the stupid and undemocratic EC as often as possible–the reason SCOTUS is what it is, etc. My wife had a good idea, what if we just removed the Senate vote representation of the EC?
OK I was going to say what if trump squats here; but revised it to say maybe we should make him an offer to stay here as long as he likes pending investigations, etc.: (nice pic/map at the link)
The Presidential Townhouse is a U.S. government-owned building located at 716 Jackson Place NW in Washington, D.C., reserved for the exclusive use of former presidents of the United States during visits to the capital.
Ocotillo
@pacem appellant:Â I feel for the folks in Georgia, they are about to be bombarded with advertising up until the runoff that will be unprecedented if I may use that overuse word.
I wonder how it will shake out though, will the MAGAts be motivated for revenge or will there be a split that depresses R turnout? Will Dems be up to the herculean turnout effort that will be required to even be competitive?
Cheryl Rofer
@Amir Khalid:
My guess is that the Biden transition team is very well aware of that and has been preparing. They’ve been working since June.
JustRuss
Any predictions on when FTFNYT will launch it’s first diner expedition to discover how Real Americans feel about Trump’s loss?
Amir Khalid
@pacem appellant:
Of course I remember that stuff from ’01. I bet the Republican party remembers it too.
mrmoshpotato
@pacem appellant:
Run-offs aren’t about Dump. But what would happen if no one voted in the run-offs? ? I mean no one at all. Zero votes cast for any of the 4 candidates.
I’m being silly.
joel hanes
@Mike in NC:
I gotta go pull Mom’s Biden/Harris yard signs so I can do the final mowing before winter closes in.
Kent
What’s the game here?  Let Purdue and Loeffler take the lead on bringing a new stimulus package home to GA during the lame duck? Or doubling down and obstructing everything?
I gotta think that McConnell is going to want to give them some prizes to take home for the campaign. Make it look like a GOP Congress can play well with Biden so that a vote for Purdue and Loeffler is a safe vote. His future depends on it. He plays the long game, always.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer:Â @Amir Khalid:
They were sure to leave everything a mess, anyway, Amir. Â It’s who they are; it’s what they are.
joel hanes
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Deb Haaland is a badass.  Get on her mailing list.
Sharice Davids is also no slouch.
Scout211
@joel hanes:
Excellent point.
raven
Proponents of the legislative-appointment theory read too much into the first constitutional provision and forget about the second. Although every state has chosen its electors by popular vote for more than a century, most constitutional experts agree that, under the legislatureâs authority to choose the âmannerâ of appointing electors, a legislature could theoretically decide before Election Day to cancel the popular vote for presidential electors and instead appoint them directly. But Congressâs enactment of a uniform national Election Day under its own constitutional authority â which supersedes any contrary state actions â prohibits the choice of electors from being made based on elections held or laws passed after Election Day.
Geo Wilcox
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Nope. 2018 the voters who hated Trump on both sides sent him a fuck you by voting a big blue wave in the House. The Rep’s had trump to vote against directly this time so they split the ticket and voted Rep all the way down.
West of the Rockies
Is Kelly now our second astronaut-turned-senator?
bluehill
@JustRuss: Kevin Kruse tweeted “I’m looking forward to the endless interviews that major media outlets will surely do with middle-aged African American women in Atlanta, Philadelphia and Detroit throughout the Biden presidency, reporting their takes on the issues and reflecting their concerns about the future.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@West of the Rockies: third at least, John Glenn, Bill Nelson… ?
joel hanes
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
https://twitter.com/DiinSilversmith/status/1324752536121716736
LurkerNoLonger
@germy: When all the âlegalâ ballots are counted your dad is still gonna lose, Princess.
dmsilev
@West of the Rockies: Third, I think. John Glenn and then Nelson.
UncleEbeneezer
Just had to block a friend on FB who wanted to interrupt the celebration to whine about how Bernie was robbed. Â NOT TODAY!!
West of the Rockies
We don’t just get to kick Trump’s fat ass to the curb. We also get to plant a boot into the butts of Barr, DeVos, Pompeo, Kushner, and many more deserving buttocks!
Kent
Find a billion or so dollars for the effort and pay Stacy Abrams a million dollars a year to run it.
Ksmiami
@Tom Levenson: Goddamit Tom – you stole my line…
mrmoshpotato
@joel hanes: Now is the lawn mowing of our discontent?
Laura
@Ocotillo: We keep hoping that Maggots will get depressed an no-show but it never happens. It’s our side that does that. Trump didnt need a GOTV infrastructure, but we do. SO the Georgia run offs will go R easily unless there is a GIGANTIC AND EFFECTIVE gotv for our side.
sdhays
@Seanly: I don’t know the state-by-state specifics, but in most cases the state legislature has already determined the process to select electors through legislation, so changing that would require changing that legislation, which would require either going through or past the governor. So, theoretically, maybe Arizona or Georgia might have the ability, if not the will, to do that. But not Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, etc.
Of course, you do get into the wacko world of the legislature saying the Constitution gives it the absolute power to appoint electors, no matter what law a previous legislature passed, and that would go to the Supreme Court if some lunatic Republican majority actually tried it. And then who knows what those fascists would say?
I think if it was one state, like Pennsylvania, there might be some temptation, but not with more. And, besides, there’s a very marked reluctance in general, it seems, to go to the absolute mat, “crossing the Rubicon” as it were, for Dump now that it’s pretty clear that he has lost. You would basically need all the Republicans in a legislature for signing up for a coup attempt in public. You would need to be really, really sure of success to get that level of support.
The will just isn’t there to even try.
Quinerly
@UncleEbeneezer: you have got to be fucking kidding me.
divF
@Kent: The Act Blue success the last two cycles may have energized a large segment of the Dems to putting money down, so funding a 50-state strategy at that level may well be possible.
bluehill
@Kent: <shoulder shrug> Based on a couple of tweets seems like McConnell might play the debt card, which would mean a smaller stimulus. I don’t know if that fires up the MAGAs, but maybe coaxes back some indies and moderate repubs who voted for Biden. However, he still has to manage the fallout from whatever crazy comes from Trump in the next couple of months and hope that Trump doesn’t go off on the repub establishment.
mad citizen
Tom’s reference to 20 years is interesting. I was telling my wife last night how 20 or so years ago I was really mad about the fact that the two parties had made all the laws and rules to shut out other parties, etc. And while I still think gerrymandering is a top problem (F-ing evil)(and know R’s are much greater offenders), over this 20 years one party has gone crazy, so here we are.
In summary, was just over at (arizona) azcentral.com, and here is one simple news item (how to explain to our 20-year ago selves?):
mrmoshpotato
@UncleEbeneezer:
Tell them to fuck off back to 2016. Hop in your time machine and go bye bye.
Ksmiami
@pacem appellant: they go low, we kick them in the junk- repeatedly. Biden needs to be more Like Truman
Immanentize
Reminder:
West of the Rockies
@Kent:
McConnell plays the long game… hmmm
From his appearance, it might be time to think about the present and getting his affairs in order.
Kent
This is fucking insane. Do they want to stop the count in AZ and award the victory to Biden? These people are idiots.
They are becoming a farce.
pacem appellant
@divF: Honestly, the money game is depressing me more and more. The good guys dumped huge amounts of money in the election, and while we have the WH, we lost important seats in the House and and failed to eject even the odious Collins. I think small-donor Dems are going to be asking themselves a lot of questions about what is being done with their money if all it does is get wasted on useless flyers, postcards, ineffective tv adverts.
Calouste
@sdhays: If the Republicans go along with schemes like that to overrule the vote, they’re basically handing him almost unlimited power. One thing that typically happens soon after a dictator gets almost unlimited power is to purge the party of dissenters to turn that almost unlimited power into completely unlimited power. See the Night of the Long Knives. Some Republicans, specially one that aren’t 100% on the train, must be aware of that, consciously or not.
Immanentize
@UncleEbeneezer: That friend needs a CT scan for a brain tumor
Off to my next class!
Sab
@Cheryl Rofer: Shedding everywhere.
Kent
He was willing to drive down GOP Congressional popularity all through the Obama Administration for an eventual payoff years later. It’s always a long game with him.
I just don’t know what the long game is with respect to the GA runoffs.
pacem appellant
@pacem appellant: Going to harp on this one more time and then I’m done. I can’t remember which candidate, b/c the postcard when immediately in the recycling bin, but I got a thank you postcard from a candidate I’d given a small donation to. It was high gloss and showed her family smiling. I felt a little jilted that my donation was being spent on donor gratification. And because it was coated, it probably will get rejected at the paper-recycling mill. Just an all around waste of precious dollars that could have been pooled to get our jucking low-turnout voters to the polls.
Steve in the ATL
@Immanentize: Imm, you like a schoolhouse in the summertime…
/Fat Albert
LuciaMia
Im thinking about the paintings and other artwork in the WH. Check to see if they havent replaced them with reproductions.
Suzanne
@Mike in NC: My neighborhood has been very Bideny â at least five to one â but there was one Trumpy house down the street that had a sign reading “TRUMP 2020 MAKE THE LIBERALS CRY AGAIN”.
I just took a walk. The sign is gone. All the other houses’ Biden / Harris signs are still there, though….
Major Major Major Major
Well that is just a delightful distinction! Good for her.
Quinerly
Steve Bannon’s attys asking to withdraw their representation of him.
https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/steve-bannons-lawyers-are-running-for-the-hills-after-clients-insane-call-for-dr-faucis-head/
Yarrow
I had to go out for a bit. Do we have any idea when the networks will call it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I agree. He should have majorities in the House and Senate.
joel hanes
@mrmoshpotato:
Made glorious by this son of Scranton
(and by a black/Jamaican/desi with infinite energy)
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
What’s the senate situation. I thought Ossoff was going to go into a runoff but It looks like he’s a whole 2% behind Perdue now…that doesn’t merit a runoff, does it? CNN has us up 48 to 47 in Senate but looks like we’re losing one GA and one AK race so that makes us down 1? I haz a confused.
sdhays
@Quinerly: LOL! I should think so when your client calls for public officials to be “beheaded” while he’s out on bail.
A Ghost to Most
Ok, folks, the election and the fun times are over. The next 75 days may be the most dangerous in America since the Civil War.
Are you ready for some Calvinball?
Captain C
@JustRuss: I want to know what percentage of these Cletus Safaris are Times political reporters finding a way to scam some diner tours on the Times‘ Dime. I would think as long as the editors get their Trump voter stories, they’d be happy to sign off on those expense chits.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: I think the GA rule is unless one candidate has over 50%, the top two candidates go to a run-off.
NC and AK races haven’t been called. I don’t know how CNN handles Sanders and King.
sdhays
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: Perdue had to get 50%+1 to avoid a runoff. That’s not happening without a major reversal.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@A Ghost to Most: we’re looking to you for guidance
joel hanes
@mad citizen:
You have the causation backward.
Two-party hegemony did not happen because the parties set the rules.
Two party hegemony is the inevitable outcome of the first-past-the-post rules.  The rules came first.
Now, it’s true that the two entrenched parties have strong disincentives to change that situation; one of them makes occasional attempts to do so. Guess which one?
Stuart Frasier
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: In GA, there’s a runoff if nobody gets 50%. Purdue is under the threshold.
Matt McIrvin
@dmsilev: Harrison Schmitt, one of the last people to walk on the Moon, was a (Republican) senator from New Mexico. And Jake Garn was the first *sitting* Senator to travel in space (Glenn himself was the second).
patroclus
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: Both Ga. races (Ossoff and Warnock) are going to run-offs in January. Â North Carolina (Tillis-Cunningham) hasn’t been called but is very likely to go Republican. Â Kelly (Zona) and Hickenlooper (Col) flipped 2 Republican seats. Â Jones (Bama) lost to Tuberville. Â Alaska (Gross) is uncalled. Â All in, that means 49 Republicans (assuming NC) and 48 Dems + Independents. Â 3 outstanding races (both Ga’s and Alaska).
Nutmeg again
I love the rescue pup of the Bidens’. Is that Major? (I know one is Champ and one is Major). His expression so matches JB’s expression in that picture. Also, I know he was a foster fail, so kudos to the Biden family for so much kindness.
Why yes, I often do know the names of people’s pets, and not the human’s name; why do you ask? It’s like when you have a kid in nursery school and each parent is identified as “so-and-so’s mom/dad”.
WaterGirl
@pacem appellant: I don’t know how many candidates you gave to, but there was only that was foolish enough to spend your money that way.
Captain C
@mrmoshpotato: And then make a little error and set it to 2016 BCE.
James E Powell
Trae Young of the Atlanta Hawks fed all the poll workers at State Farm Arena today. And he gave them a thank you card that will be a treasured reminder. Wonder what the overall impact of the NBA players activism was. Probably difficult to measure.
JWR
L.A. County DA Jackie Lacey conceding her race right now. Giving a pretty emotional speech.
ETA Should add that her opponent was George Gascon, for whom I voted. (Hoping that was a wise decision.)
LuciaMia
That came up in 2016, as a last-ditch fantasy by some to get Hillary elected. Was dismissed as unfeasible.
WaterGirl
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: My understanding is that we have a shot at Alaska. Â I saw an official announcement yesterday that Ossoff-Perdue was going to a runoff.
mrmoshpotato
Via bluegill
Bumper
Re McSally: not only did she lose two consecutive Senate elections, they were in two consecutive years and both resulted in the seat flipping to Democrats! (apologies if this has already been mentioned, didn’t read entire thread yet).
Jinchi
Perdue is under 50% and that requires a runoff in Ga.
The real question is who will show up to vote? Democratic voters have typically been less likely to vote in runoff elections, but maybe this year we’ve rounded a corner. Regardless, it’s a chance where there was none.
Brachiator
@LuciaMia:
What do you want to bet that Trump actually does trash the white house
Trump’s very presence in the White House brings it down. But the White House does is not the personal property of any president. I would think that there is protocol that deals with those moving in and those moving out, and respect for the various paintings, furniture, etc.
James E Powell
@Ksmiami:
I kinda like Biden the way he is. Our sharks & tigers need to be in the senate, house, and statehouses. That’s where the brand gets built.
We have people who take pride in being “quietly effective” and I think we need a few more who are “loudly promoting” our values & ideas.
pacem appellant
@WaterGirl: It may have been Gideon. Like I said, right to the recycle bin. I don’t have time for thank yous.
Jinchi
@Bumper: Right. She personally lost both Senate seats for the Republicans.
I’m sure she’ll live happily knowing that she did it groveling to a man who showed her utter contempt.
patroclus
@Matt McIrvin: And Swigart (Apollo 13) was elected to Congress but died before he could serve. Â I think.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: For some reason, that made me cry.
LuciaMia
That was the Fun Times!??!
randy khan
This Doonesbury from 1974 seems apropos:
Tear it down
WaterGirl
@Jinchi: I don’t know why anyone thinks Georgia won’t be motivated in January. Â People in Georgia just came to realize that their vote matters, and it mattered a hell of a lot in this election.
Jinchi
@Brachiator: Given that it’s a repeated superspreader location, It seems likely that the White House itself will have to be quarantined for 14 days after Trump is ejected.
CaseyL
When it comes to the GOP, I haven’t been a “nice person” since, um, 1994.
I used to just want them out of power.
Now I want them destroyed – professionally, financially, and personally.
I know that didn’t happen this election. But we did begin to claw back. I hope Joe makes conciliatory noises – with his fingers crossed.
Dan B
@joel hanes: I believe scout is not talking about campaign ads. He’s talking about a counter to the Powell Memorandum propaganda infrastructure, Murdoch, and unregulated social media. As we will see in the ppst election analysis campaign ads don’t move people to vote in the full on 24/7 assault of corporate media. A constant barrage of media, more tightly targeted by AI, changes the brain. Modern science has been able to observe those changes.
Also see: Goebbels, Joseph, plus the ancient Greeks. Those of us from academic worldviews often fail to notice the immense power of marketing. Those from business / Chamber of Commerce embrace it. See: Lincoln Project ads for instance
On your point about organizing, yes, especially if it is 365 days a year and in as many states and identity groups as possible. Repetition, connection, and reinforcement are key
Amir Khalid
@patroclus:
Do you mean Kevin Bacon?
//
MisterForkbeard
@CaseyL: I have relatives posting things like “Even if you voted for someone I disagree with, we’re still friends because I am an adult”.
Had to push back on that. Look, I’m not automatically going to ostracize you because you voted for Donald Trump. Maybe you’re just not tuned in or ignorant. But you are getting some serious fucking side-eye, especially if you STILL support his current dangerous lying and accusations of fraud and theft.
That shit will literally cause violence, and it’s already fucking up the peaceful transfer of power. A lot of Trump supporters will view this as a completely illegitimate win – even though Trump tilted the race towards himself every way that he could. That’s not acceptable, and I don’t have to respect you if you agree with it.
rjnerd
An observation: Now that the bulk of the campaign trolling is over, with its push polls, etc, all the various lowlive’s that engage in that have returned to their regular con, that of providing staff and dialers for spam calls
I have received 11 such calls today, and its only 2 pm. Besides Rachel from card services, and a bunch of your cars warranty has expired, I got an actual “we are raising money for the police” scams.
Perhaps the reason that “nothing can be done” about such calls, is the repubs want them around to solicit contributions and run their push polls, etc every election season. Hell they likely own them. All those crony operated paid fundraising operations that provide ratholes to make where money goes hard to follow…
Baud
Does anyone know when PA will next update their count? I would like to see Biden get beyond the recount threshold.
Jinchi
@WaterGirl: I’m optimistic about Georgia and thrilled that Stacey Abrams is on the ground there. But there was at least one similar situation the year Obama was elected:
2008: Georgia Senate General election:
Runoff:
That loss hurt given McConnell’s push to make every vote in the chamber require 60 Senators.
piratedan
as for the unlamented political heat death of soon to be ex-Senator Martha McSally I want to add these items…
Yes, she was an unknown moderate recruited to run for Congress against Ron Barber because he was perceived by the AZ GOP as weak and nowhere near as charismatic as his former boss Gabby Giffords. Now before we go too far down the revised history hole, Giffords was a blue dog Democrat but for some reason, because she was an relatively transparent legislator, she was very open about her struggles for voting for the ACA. Had full page ads that were taken out in the local papers in Tucson and around her district as to why she was voting for it. It essentially came down to the idea that it would help far more people than it would hurt.
For that, she was specifically targeted by the GOP, who still adhere to the idea that providing health care to poor people is some kind of hill to die on. Everyone remembers Sarah Palin’s “surveyor’s symbols” and then the subsequent tragedy when Loughner took his weapon and mowed down those people in a suburban Tucson grocery store… The outpouring of sympathy that followed was not echoed by the state GOP that demanded that the Dems and the Governor set up a special election for her seat as soon as possible and the Dems inserted Giffords’ Cheif of Staff Ron Barber to run in her stead. The GOP drafted a guy by the name of Jesse Kelly for the seat, who’s sensitivity was noted when he ran raffles for automatic rifles at his rally events… Barber won…
So McSally was recruited to win the seat, she was an unknown, great profile, female veteran pilot, had combat missions and because she was such a blank slate, she ended up winning in a squeaker. Fast forward to her time in Congress when she ended up leading one of the government shutdowns from a GOP controlled Congress because she didn’t care if the government stayed operational… and her slide to the right keep on happening.
The longer she served, the more radical she became and you can say that she was influenced by the local GOP, the thing is, if she fought thru sexual harassment in the Military and was an officer who was devoted to the constitution, I have a hard time reconciling that with the blatant lies she ran during each of her Senate campaigns. She specifically claimed that her votes about repealing the ACA would not affect folks with pre-existing conditions and that is simply an outright lie and then to see numerous, soft-spoken earnest ads repeating this give credence to simply repeating the lie over and over again to give it legitimacy and in our low info voter environment, this shit is somewhat scary because while Kelly has won election, what was once a comfortable lead is a damn sight less so today, maybe some of that is the Trump factor but its also a wake up call that lying works and works well when its done right…
I won’t be sad to see her go, but I also look at the personal carnage of who this woman was at one point and who she is today and its both sad and infuriating ….
Suzanne
@Jinchi:
I donât think she should go back to Arizona.
patroclus
@Amir Khalid: Yes. Â Kevin Bacon is related in some way to everything. Â He played Swigart in the movie.
Another Scott
@Jinchi: It may take longer to sweep the White House complex for bugs and who knows what else Donnie’s Russian handlers have left behind. :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
opiejeanne
Update:
soonergrunt
@soonergrunt
·
19s
Dx “very mild heart attack” I’m stable, more or less comfortable. Will go home tomorrow. Follow up at VA, which I’ll set up tomorrow.
MisterForkbeard
@UncleEbeneezer: Yeah. I kicked out most of my facebook friends who pull this shit awhile ago, but I still have a few who were posting things on Tuesday like “The Best Man can’t win, because Bernie was robbed by the Establishment in April”.
Etc. I told one or two of them to just please shut up and ignored the rest.
Jinchi
@Another Scott: That’s actually a really good point.
JWR
@WaterGirl:
I’m unusually optimistic about both the Loeffler-Warnock and Perdue-Ossoff runoffs. And as Seth Meyers pointed out the other night, the Blue Wave of 2016 took quite a while to unfold, and he played a series of news anchors dismissing it altogether. So here’s hoping for at least a 50-50, senate. Eventually! ;)
artem1s
@Amir Khalid:
every minute he refuses to concede the press will hound him with questions about the election he lost. that my friend is icing on the cake. all the attention he always wanted will be because he lost. and lost bigly due to a genius con to interfere with mail in ballots. Shakespearean plot twist there.
mad citizen
@joel hanes: Yes, thanks for this. I don’t know how we got to two party rule–I’m sure you’re right. One thing I think is totally insane is that the government uses resources and operates elections for the political parties choose their nominees for the general election. Let the parties figure it out–ain’t no money coming from the parties to do primary elections. But, I get it as a holiday so am good with that :)
Also insane that political parties help run the elections, but I don’t have a fix for that.
Suzanne
@piratedan: You are correct. Any integrity she may have had â and I will freely admit that she had a great story â has all been pissed away in the pursuit of her ambitions and power politics.
But…. oh well. Fuck her.
Itâs poetry that Kelly is the one to Make Martha Unemployed Again.
O. Felix Culpa
@pacem appellant: Speaking as an actual, you know, organizer, what would you suggest people do in the middle of a fucking pandemic? We made phone calls and sent text messages (with lots of loud complaining about such on these very pages), mailed postcards and flyers. Couldn’t go doorknocking thanks to Trump’s plague. Couldn’t hold rallies. Couldn’t host houseparties. Held numerous Zoom events, but but that grows old after a while. We did as much and as creatively as possible under the circumstances, but I’m going to stop here before I say rude things
Oh, and having read your followup on #134, STFU. Donor acknowledgements matter. They’re actually a part of…organizing. Namely building relationships for the long haul and thanking people when they do nice things to support you.
mrmoshpotato
Have a laugh. Via Karoli
Sure Lurkalot
Totally agree. I like the permanent infrastructure idea that Joel is promoting. Â And give power locally. Stacey Abrams, Ben Wikler…so impressed by how well they know their electorate and motivate them. Â It shouldnât be a top down effort.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Another Scott: Good lord yes, what sane person would trust an device from those Trump admin idiots? If they can’t even keep themselves safe from COVID they certainly weren’t following government security protocols and their stuff is nasty with spyware and what not.
mad citizen
Low priority, but wonder if Biden will keep the iconic Air Force One design for the new plane rather than the tentative “Trump Airlines” version: https://www.airforcemag.com/new-air-force-one-moving-forward-despite-pandemic/
Bex
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Paging Brett Kavanaugh.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Stacey did (is doing) a hell of a job for democracy. Even after getting cheated out of the GA governor’s mansion.
Nora Lenderbee
@joel hanes: What’s Howard Dean doing these days?
germy
So like every other day, then. Except for no appearances.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@West of the Rockies: Third or 4th; John Glenn, Bill Nelson, and maybe Jake Garn.
patroclus
@Nora Lenderbee: He’s going to New Hampshire and South Carolina and Nevada!! Â YEEEAAAAHHHHH!
mrmoshpotato
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
The Soviet shitpiles screamed and screamed about Hillary Clinton following government security protocols. (Physical destruction of smartphones)
Leto
@mad citizen: strike it down. Trumpovâs Admin have a hand in it? Kill it. Burn it. Fuckâem.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: In most states, the legislature has tied the selection of electors to popular vote by law, so they couldn’t just change it by themselves anyway without changing the law and that would require approval of the state’s governor.
Suzanne
@germy: Did he legitimately believe he was going to win?
mrmoshpotato
@germy: All networks need to book that woman who made the video telling Michael Bloomberg he ain’t shit, you never gonna be shit.
patroclus
Zona margin goes down slightly to 41,302.
Brachiator
@MisterForkbeard:
Inevitably, a lot of “Bernie Woulda Won in a Landslide” crap is bubbling up. I even took a little time to respond to a couple of particularly annoying comments to a YouTube video of some pundit singing the “Bernie Blues.”
ETA: Apropos of nothing much, I notice that in 2020, the Libertarian Party candidate got 1.2 percent of the vote, and the Green Party candidate got 0.2 percent of the vote. This is a total of about 2 million votes. In 2016, the minor party candidates got about 6 million votes. People seemed to understand that this was really about Biden v Trump, sanity vs madness.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
Thank you ALL for answering my Senator question. :)
Sm*t Cl*de
@Suzanne:
Shirley you want her running in future elections to continue her streak of Democratic success.
Leto
@mrmoshpotato: Liz Warren? Or was there a different woman?
Dan B
@pacem appellant: As scout says we need media – 24/7, 365. Six months of campaign media cannot overcome the brain rearranging of MSM, Murdoch, and social media. We need comprehensive media to pushback against the “misinformation” and take charge of the narrative.
cain
@Sm*t Cl*de:
We do, and don’t call me shirley
Suzanne
@Sm*t Cl*de: No, I want to humiliate Andy Biggs, Kelli Ward, Paul Gosar, Doug Douchebag, David Schweikert, and so, so many more.
Yarrow
CNN reporting that Trump wants to fight the election results in various states into December.
artem1s
@Immanentize:
saw a comment on wonkette that referred to them as the Traitor Tots. lovely
cain
@WaterGirl:
That’s my understanding as well – but that mostly comes from the guy running for senate – he thinks that he can close the gap and win it from all the mail in ballots which are heavily trending Democratic.
O. Felix Culpa
And for the armchair pundits who are calling for 365 days/year organizing – excellent! You know who the boots on the ground are? Volunteers. Your local Democratic Party organizers? Volunteers. The people the paid organizers rely on to get the work done? Volunteers.
You know what to do.
Another Scott
(via TheRealHoarse)
Cheers,
Scott.
Frankensteinbeck
@Yarrow:
As my ancestors in South Carolina would say, “Well, bless your heart.”
artem1s
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
at least one candidate has to win 50%+1 of the vote to be declared a winner in GA. anything less and there is a run off between the top 2 candidates.
Brachiator
@Jinchi:
Quarantined and fumigated.
JWR
@Dan B: As scout says we need media â 24/7, 365.
Yes, this! And anyone who tells me that a new Fairness Doctrine won’t work because Cable should check the Talk lineup on KABC radio here in SoCal. (I mean c’mon! Ben Shapiro?!) The FM lineup differs little from the AM these days.
mrmoshpotato
@Brachiator: Hooray! My eyes just rolled under the fridge!
Seriously, I want some Back To The Future II alternate timelines.
Show us how Bernie v Dump would’ve played out. Show us all of the times we’d see attack ads with shirtless Bernie in the Soviet Union in the 80’s. And all the other oppo research Clinton held back on because she needed his supporters.
Show us how that election would play out.
Show us how Clinton v Dump would be
Without Comey
With actual stories about how Dump sucks Kremlin ass.
With actual stories about how Dump is a mobster.
With actually explaining the email thing instead of 25 hours/day of Upchuck Todd screaming about them.
“Bernie would’ve won!” was crap in 2016, and it’s crap now.
Sister Golden Bear
<Voight Kampff machine starts up>
Holden: The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can’t, not without your help, but you’re not helping. Why is that?
Me: It’s Trump.
mad citizen
@Leto: I think the new plane is moving forward. Unless budget cuts. That website say the “design shown is tentative” so probably only was a mockup to please the orange one.
Another Scott
Yarrow? Is that you??
https://juanitajean.com/best-sign-today/
Cheers,
Scott.
MisterForkbeard
@pacem appellant: The Senate is a good question. But ultimately what it amounts to is that Trump voters came out to support Trump in record numbers and many of them voted for Republican senators, too.
The House is… I’m not upset about this at all. The House seats we got in 2018 was an enormous gift, many of which we can’t expect to hold. Remember that the house is rigged against Democrats, just to a different degree than the Senate.
I do think we need to shift to a more base-friendly strategy.
Kay
Kornacki says they aren’t calling it because some of the 100k mail ballots still not counted are not being accepted- missing the privacy envelope, whatever. So that’s uncertainty- he doesn’t know how many will be rejected.
Also- the 100k provisionals are not all from Biden areas and they don’t have a read yet on what the percentage will be.
So that’s why no call.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
who, in this White House, has read Shakespeare? or heard enough to make a reference? Â I think we can rule out the Large Adult Children, Meadows, Kayleigh…..
mrmoshpotato
@Leto: No, not SPW.
There is a Tiktok video of a black woman just tearing Bloomberg to pieces.
Restarting my laptop. Lemme see if I can find it.
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sheez. There are three dozen fools in the white house at any given time and not one knows what fools are for?
Baud
@Kay:
Oh jeez.
MisterForkbeard
@germy: I think what we’re missing here is that Trump (aside from being a narcissist) really does believe Democrats cheated.
He thinks this because HE cheats egregiously. And he thinks it’s normal. And this is similar to a how a lot of low-info Republican voters feel too, and how they can excuse all of Trump’s lying and so on: they just say “all politicians do this” and move on.
Kay
@Baud:
Yup. They really don’t know.
Haroldo
@Kay:
What is Biden’s lead according to MSNBC? (I have no TV, nor app.)
Thanks.
Kay
@Baud:
And they already had the uncertainty of the “segregated” ballots- those that arrived during the period Trump is disputing- I don’t know how many those are. Obviously PA does because they segregated them.
Peale
@Kay: Ugh. We’re not going to call Georgia until the last vote comes in and maybe the recount. PA might not be called. AZ might go back to recount. and Nevada is just refusing to budget. Why do I feel we’ll still be here at Thanksgiving.
Kay
@Haroldo:
13,662
JWR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No one is willing to tell King Lear the truth.
This morning, Major Garrett, who continues to surprise, laid it out as if one were dealing with an infant, but he was talking about sitting Congresspeople, who remain terrified of Lil’ Duce, and so don’t know how far they can go with any criticisms they may have.
Oh, and Garrett was also the first anchor person I heard who pointed out that the people protesting the slowness of the count in Pennsylvania should take their grievances to the Republican legislature.
Kay
@Peale:
I think they can and will call Nevada with the next batch, so supposedly 4 PM but that’s not enough.
I don’t want to upset people. I just knew you were wondering why it wasn’t called so I tried to find out.
Fair Economist
@pacem appellant: I am planning to donate mostly to state parties and statehouse campaigns this cycle. Of course, I said that about *this* cycle and then got seduced by prospective Senators.
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: Don’t believe it. Still sounds like special treatment for Trump.
In any other situation, the AZ + GA + NV statuses would lead to a call at this point. PA alone should signify a call.
They’re just extra careful. Which would be nice, if they deployed this level of protection to everyone and not just the Orange Menace.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
538 is clear that the nature of the remaining ballots do not bode well for Trump, and indeed, as we go through them Biden’s lead has only grown.
Kay
@MisterForkbeard:
I don’t know. 200k out is a lot. Kornacki said they usually assume provisionals lean Dem but they have 10X the provisionals they would usually have (and they take a while to count).
I don’t know how many are in the segregated batch either. The later arriving.
mad citizen
@Dan B: I want Biden and Harris to talk about it. I want disinformation education is school curricula if it’s not already there (I know Fed controls very little of actual education stuff).
And I definitely don’t want Biden or Harris to EVER do any interviews with Fox News. Shut them out. Period.
But hammer on these issues relentlessly. All of our citizens need to live in reality.
sdhays
@MisterForkbeard: I don’t believe Donnie believes the Dems cheated any more than he believes he got more votes than Hillary in 2016 or had a bigger inauguration than Obama. He’s just completely without even an atom of shame. He lies like breathing – it’s automatic. He lies and thrashes around for advantage in the chaos.
And he certainly accuses others of his own crimes – he’s a Republican after all – but that doesn’t mean he actually believes any of it. He only cares that other people believe it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: Not sure what just happened in Nevada, Votes Remaining went from 100k to 140k. Biden’s lead in both AZ and NV have been dropping slightly.
Miss Bianca
@Suzanne: I sure wish the fucking Trump-sign assholes around here would take their signs down. But no, they’re all still up, far as I can tell. Oh, and I was trailed by a truck with huge TRUMP and American flags flying out the back. A little sinister-looking, to my eyes. Just glad he didn’t follow me when I turned off the road.
Stuff like that is part of the reason why I never put bumper stickers on my car or political signs on my driveway. Still very much a minority in my county.
Although, interestingly, judging by the election results from our county, out of 89% turnout – highest ever, I’m told – Democratic candidates consistently got about 1/3 of the vote total. This is in a county where Republican registrations outnumber Democrats by a factor of 5, and Independents by at least a factor of 3. Food for thought, there.
sdhays
@Kay: According to the AP and Fox News, Nevada IS enough since they’ve already called Arizona. I know Fox has received marching order not to do that, but the AP…
Kay
@Frankensteinbeck:
I don’t think this addresses the uncertainty. The questions they have is 1. how many of the 100k mail ins that are good for Biden will be accepted and 2. are the provisionals from heavy Biden precincts.
Kay
@sdhays:
That’s a good point. I forgot about the two calling Arizona.
I was getting mad because they’re not calling PA and I found Kornacki persuasive as to why.
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost to Most: Don’t worry, I’m sure you’re MORE than ready to deal for the rest of us. We can all just shelter in your mountain-manly shadow.
mad citizen
It’s weird how we’re all hoping for the media “call”, when even if that is done, and a state reverses, the unthinkable can occur. Is it because the “calls” are supposed to lead to the “concession”, and/or legitimacy of the new winner. PA will worry me until it’s done, but AZ and NV make 270. That seems fairly certain to happen. Plus GA. Got to believe they counted right. PA has way too many (total) votes to be comfortable.
Yarrow
@sdhays:Â The thing to understand about narcissists is that for them it’s not a lie. When they say something it’s true. They believe it’s true. They can then immediately say the opposite thing and that will also be true. For them, whatever they say is true. There are not things such as truth and lies. It’s what’s good for the narcissist and what’s bad for the narcissist.
It’s why dealing with narcissists is so difficult. People are not wired that way and they keep expecting the narcissist to adhere to usual norms. They don’t and we struggle to adjust.
Barbara
@sdhays: Right. Biden is now up by 21,000 in Nevada and nearly all the remaining ballots are from Clark County, where his margin has expanded with the most recent batch.
zhena gogolia
@Miss Bianca:
I am so sick of his shtick. What are we supposed to do about it?
James E Powell
@mad citizen:
I’m the opposite. I’m confident in PA and would probably worry about AZ & NV if PA wasn’t enough to get the job done.
Baud
@Kay:
That worries me because provisionals are usually same day ballots, no?
pacem appellant
@Dan B: I feel like we’ve been singing that tune for over two decades now. I don’t have the funds to start a media empire. Do you?
Haroldo
@Kay:
Thank you. A friend from Australia was sent a screen shot of some CNN numbers from another friend here in the States. It did not seem right to me from newspaper accounts and I was wondering if this error existed in other TV stations calculations.
mrmoshpotato
LMAO! via Popehat
Baud
@Kay:
We can’t rely on the late arrivals. I’m confident the supreme court will Bush v. Gore them.
Barbara
@James E Powell: You don’t need to worry about NV. Really, the last set of ballots basically doubled Biden’s lead there.
germy
The far far right republicans are arguing with the far far far right republicans:
Miss Bianca
@O. Felix Culpa: Right on, sister!
Kay
@Baud:
They are. The provisionals in this case – the reason there’s so many of them- came about when people had a mail ballot but instead brought it to the polling place on eday. If you brought it- all of it, including the privacy envelope- you got a regular ballot but if you didn’t bring it or not all of it you got a provisional.
I just looked an the PA reporter said this morning that “15 to 20k” of the provisionals were Philly, which leaves 85 to 80 “other places” which of course could include Pittsburgh but could also include Trumpsterland. I SUSPECT they’re mostly blue because people got scared they wouldn’t arrive by mail on time- that’s why there are so many.
Yarrow
Ugh.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mad citizen: I’m more worried about AZ that PA right now, the margin is narrowing in AZ and increasing in PA.
Kay
@Baud:
Oh, me too. We’re fucked on the late arrivals. Forget them. I wonder how many there are?
MisterForkbeard
@germy: It’s kind of insane. Crenshaw lied a bunch but said it was technically possible Trump might have lost.
Dan Crenshaw: “It’s technically possible Trump lost but there was so much fraud and so many irregularities that it was probably stolen. Stand up and help Trump!”
Crazy QAnon Lady: “How dare you suggest that Trump might have lost!”
At this point, I kind of assume that Marjorie Taylor-Greene’s head just starts doing 360s like in the exorcist.
mrmoshpotato
Well shit! If a “winner mindset” got you victory, Hillary would’ve been the winner in 2016, assclown.
Baud
@Kay: I think I heard the PA AG that there weren’t many of them.
Kay
@Baud:
I was waiting for .5 (above recount trigger) too but now I think that’s not why they’re not calling it.
mrmoshpotato
As Stonekettle says, “Show your work.” I’d love to see this bitchass’s “proof.”
Barbara
@mrmoshpotato: Lots of funny replies, but my absolute favorite:
Uh huh.
Baud
@Kay: I think they’re correct not to. I’m upset that the media gave us misleading info about the nature of the remaining ballots. The experts were saying Biden would win PA by at least 50,000, if not much more, so I hope that was based on solid knowledge about the remaining ballots that I don’t have.
Kay
@Baud:
NOT to obsess (ha- not likely) but MSNBC says 300k “out” – I have no idea what that means but it’s obviously more than 100k (provisionals) + 100k (mail) that Kornacki used.
Miss Bianca
@zhena gogolia:
Mock it mercilessly? Works for me, anyway.
Yarrow
So freaking true.
Steeplejack
I’ve been off line this afternoon. Have we covered the fact that Harlan Hill is getting reinforcements in his attack on Philadelphia?
MisterForkbeard
@mrmoshpotato: The irregularities are things like “mail in ballots went mostly for Biden by huge margins” and “Monitors were only allowed to monitor from 20 feet away for the first half of counting!” and so on. Also just random accusations of fraud.
It’s all bullshit. Nothing to any of it.
Baud
@Kay: I thought I would have a relaxing weekend.
James E Powell
I’ve watched more cable news in the last 12 hours than in the previous eight years.
Kelly O’Donnell just went through a long explanation of how the press/media needs to be kind and careful in explaining to Trump & Republicans that they lost.
mrmoshpotato
@Barbara: LOL
pacem appellant
@O. Felix Culpa: The herculean obstacles the GOP put in front of us this election was near insurmountable, and organizers like you, and volunteers like me, did the absolute best we could, and then some. And we got something big to show for it, but not enough. I don’t know how to canvass during a pandemic. In the U.S. we haven’t had to do that for over a century, and it’s such a rare (I hope) event that building up institutional knowledge isn’t practical. But we’d better figure it out fast, because half of our voting countrymen are terrible.
YMMV. And maybe they’re such a tiny fraction of what it costs to run a campaign that sending a few thousand glossy 3x5s is a pittance. But they were ineffectual on me, and since I drained my piggy bank this election, I have nothing left for GA, and no confidence that if my resources rebound, campaigns will know what to do any money I throw their way.
Barbara
@Kay: Biggest number by percentage outstanding seem to be from Allegheny County.
Kay
@Baud:
I’m not trusting them so much as I’m trusting the Biden campaign. Biden’s campaign manager has been honest. She said e day that it would be closer than the polling indicated and she was right. I thought it was to drive turn out but I think it was an honest assessment.
I hope they know how many they have. Campaigns usually do.
zzyzx
@Baud: Well I was being calm and now I’m back in panic mode.
mad citizen
@Baud: I read (here? or maybe twitter) people quoting experts saying Biden was going to win PA by 300K, then 200K, then 100K, etc. So now there is a LOT of heartburn. About everything.
Kay
@Barbara:
Oh, good. I was hoping we wouldn’t have to get into provisionals at all because they take so long. Many PROVISIONALS are also rejected.
Yarrow
LOL.
mrmoshpotato
@MisterForkbeard: I know. Hence the quotes on “proof” – and calling Crenshaw a bitchass.
mrmoshpotato
@Yarrow: SAD! LOSER!
Baud
@Kay: Right. I think if anyone felt any real uncertainty, we’d hear about it. Do we know when AZ will finish up? Last I heard, Trump was not on pace to catch Biden, even though the lead will narrow.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Provisionals can also be the “we don’t know if the ballot you mailed will actually be delivered in time, so you can vote provisionally to be sure your vote is counted” ballots.
Yarrow
@James E Powell:
I know this seems like they’re coddling Republicans – and they are – but I also think it might be about safety. Trump followers are crazy and they have guns. They’ve been showing up in the crowds outside counting facilities carrying all sorts of firearms if the state allows it. It’s not necessarily a bad thing to be kind and careful if it will keep the public safer. Not sure it will but I can see the thinking that might lead in that direction.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I heard the same. Â Not enough of the late arrivals to make a difference either way.
Baud
@WaterGirl: We’re fine as long as the remaining ballots don’t favor Trump by more than 50%. It’s just impossible to know whether past trends apply to this new batch.
topclimber
@Citizen Scientist: I don’t know you but your posts suggest you are still a nice person. Of course, the Niceness Window has shifted strongly into the negative quadrant. So if there is an absolute scale to these things, you may well be a schmuck now. Join the crowd!
UncleEbeneezer
@Brachiator: What I love most about their ridiculous fantasy is that under their assertion that PA, MI, WI, AZ, GA, SC, TX, FL etc. TOTALLY WANTS a more progressive/socialist candidate, they have no answer as to why the GOP in those states purposefully tried to smear Biden as a socialist and no different than AOC, Bernie etc. Â Also, a quick look at the types of candidates those states tend to elect and promote (Beto aside) suggests those states were unlikely to shift massively towards a more progressive candidate.
zzyzx
I’m not in the “Call it already!” camp because I’m annoyed at the media. I’m in it because I want it to be true that it’s clinched.
Baud
@zzyzx: Same.
Curtis
@zzyzx: But also I’m annoyed by the media.
Baud
@Curtis: Same.
Kay
@Baud:
I have no idea. None of the lawsuits or fights or screaming or “narratives” worry me- I just want to have the votes. The fighting I can deal with, a shortfall I cannot.
tybee
let’s not forget about sending perdue packing as well.
Kay
Nate Silver is addressing this whole thing on Twitter, if anyone wants to read his take.
Amir Khalid
@James E Powell:
Kind? Careful? It should suffice
for Democratsto be civil but forthright. And if troubled Republican fee-fees are still not soothed, too fucking bad.Baud
@Kay: Thanks. I just think we’re once again in a situation where the odds are highly in our favor, but we’re not out of the woods for a black swan event.
NotMax
@Kay
It is patently impossible for me to care any less about what Nate Silver has to say about anything.
YMMV.
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
Won’t Possum Queen also leave the big screen? Please!? Makes my skin crawl, so evil — just boiling out of her eyes.
There go two miscreants
@O. Felix Culpa: I contributed to about 20 candidates, and received thank-you postcards from several, as well as emails from all. I appreciated that; I just wish my win percentage had been higher (a lot of them were in NC, where we got pasted).
ETA that I am also in favor of a permanent organizing entity; we definitely need something like the 50 state approach, even in places where it is an uphill battle.
CaseyL
I just watched a clip of Kornacki giving a detailed breakdown of why they haven’t called PA:Â besides the ~100K mail-in ballots remaining that most likely favor Biden, there are ALSO ~100K provisional ballots that may or may not be counted*, and which may favor Trump.
Biden’s lead at the time of that segment was only about 25-30K.
*They may be duplicate votes by people who tried to VBM **and** by provisional. Either to cheat, or because they weren’t sure the mail-in ballot would make it in on time.
Kay
@Baud:
Exactly. I personally hate surprises so I just look and look if something is weird and the not calling it is weird.
One of my younger sisters, who is much smarter than I am, is convinced it’s cowardice by media.
Baud
@Kay: I thought it was cowardice too, but that was before I understood that there were these different classes of ballots.
ETA: I’m pretty confident about NV. I wish AZ would finish up.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: Last I heard the Possum Queen wants to run for her dad’s old job.
Captain C
@MisterForkbeard: A part of me hopes the delays on calling the election are at least in part passive-aggressive psychological torture of Trump on the part of the editors/producers who make those calls and are at least on some level sick of the Shitgibbon.
J R in WV
@Bumper:
It has been mentioned in the thread, but can’t be spelled out too often. McSally is not going to be an elected Senator from Arizona!!!
Yay!!!
trollhattan
@mad citizen:
This afternoon from the Decision Desk folks:
At the least, he’s inching ahead.
MisterForkbeard
@CaseyL: Eh. If the remaining mail-in ballots go at about the same rate, Biden will have ~100k vote advantage.
The provisionals at that point will not matter. Trump is not going to get 95-100% of them.
C’est finit.
Captain C
@Steeplejack: I liked this reply:
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Captain C: Well look at the Fox memo were they had to tell their staff not to call it because Trump is threatening to sue them. It’s Trump, like the idiot he is, torturing himself.
Mary G
Sad!
Chris Johnson
@Mary G: I think they mean 100% offâŠ
and the sooner the better
Geminid
He’s going where the Goblins go, BELOW! Below, Below YO-HO!
I’ve got my Munchkin on!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mary G: Heh, Surprise!
artem1s
More idiocy from the GOP ‘lawyers’
Sad.
topclimber
@Dan B: Perhaps what we need are ongoing ads on a modest scale, say once a week, that build on a theme for a year or two. One example that comes to mind is individuals telling stories about how the ACA helped them.
By contrast, a blitz of ads in the month or two before an election when the other side is turning folks off with negative ads, just gives you diminishing ROI.
IANA(Marketer) but don’t you get cheaper rates on long-term ad contracts?
WaterGirl
What time is Nevada supposed to make their announcement today? Â In Eastern Time.
Mary G
Captain C
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Works for me.
Zzyzx
I understand that the Pittsburgh votes were delayed for that stupid reason and canât be counted for another 30 minutes but I donât get why Philly is being so slow with their final 50k votes. If those drop and give Biden another 20-30 k delta, thatâs a huge difference.
Kent
It would be exquisitely perfect timing for one of the networks to make the call when Biden or Harris are speaking tonight. To set off Friday night celebrations across the country. Once once of them does it the rest will be forced to follow.
But even if not, Biden and Harris absolutely need to be acting like winners and claiming victory. That’s sure as hell what Trump would be doing if the roles were reversed. You know it.
Zzyzx
@WaterGirl: 7 EST
WaterGirl
I wonder if Biden â when he announced his speech at 8pm âwas assuming that something would be called this afternoon that would put him over 270.
Postponing would look terrible.
topclimber
@Jinchi: Don’t forget that by the time of the runoff there was a Dark Moor in the White House.
Kent
They won’t postpone. They’ll go out and claim victory regardless. That’s what Trump would do. Project confidence and even a little swagger. Thank all those who worked so hard for you and talk about how you are preparing for the transition and such.
Part of politics is capturing the narrative.  Biden is a very experienced political hand and has has really good people working for him. They know what they are doing.
James E Powell
@trollhattan:
The Biden gap grows slowly with these little drops; every fifth one seems to be a small step back. We could use a 30K+ drop that goes big for Biden. I want to hear victory speeches.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: I don’t think so. “We will respect this process, we will show the patience made necessary by these extraordinary times…. we share with the vast majority of our fellow Americans great faith in our electoral system to triumph over obstacles natural and man-made… Senator Harris and I continue to stay abreast of developments both at home and abroad… we are prepared, we will continue preparing for the ultimate decision of the people the greatest democracy … blah blah blah
Baud
@Kent:
I agree. We’re ahead in all four states. Biden should project confidence. I can worry enough for both of us.
Yarrow
Last night security people were suggesting they’d wait until daylight to make the call. So daylight came and now is going. Still no call. Might we have to wait until tomorrow morning?
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, if that’s all we get, it will be unsettling because it would show that they have doubts about the outcome.
I am tired of all these twists in the plot. Â I thought we had it in the bag earlier today.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: What state are you talking about?
Curtis
New open thread.
topclimber
@mrmoshpotato: If feel you friend, but would it really be so hard to say “yeah, Bernie might have done better than Joe” and then ask, “what are we ALL going to do now?”
Yeah, yeah, I know, you get Justice Democrat answers to that. Without saying that is necessarily a bad approach, who gives a Flying Frack? What I am saying is that let those who consider him an icon have their right to venerate him. Let’s not piss off possible allies for the sake of a battle they already lost.
artem1s
@Barbara:
do we finally get our taco trucks on every corner now?
Yarrow
@WaterGirl:Â My understanding is that it was any call that would put Biden over the top to win. So, technically PA, but could be NV if AZ holds, etc. Last night GA hadn’t gone blue, so it wasn’t quite in the same discussion.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: well, maybe you’ll like Biden’s speech-writing better than mine. From what I’ve seen he’s projected confidence and acted like a President in every public appearance since election day. This is nerve-racking, but all evidence points to a Biden win.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: We DO have it in the bag.
Ultimately, if the remaining mail-in ballots go the way the rest of the ballots have then the provisionals and so on can’t affect the results significantly enough to matter.
This also doesn’t include the fact that we’re almost certainly going to keep AZ, get NV, and that the situation in GA isn’t likely going to change either.
Keep the faith. It’s just about removing the last shred of doubt, but I honestly don’t see how this goes bad. You can see this in the media, too – they’re all convinced it’s a Biden win, they just won’t announce it yet or exactly how it’s going to happen.
EDIT: If you’d like further proof, there was new three hours ago that White House staff are physically avoiding Trump because they know he’s lost and they’re trying to stay safe. I think the tweets are in the new OT.
Quinerly
@MisterForkbeard: great post.
Kay
@WaterGirl:
This is just for you watergirl, because I recognize a fellow obsessive :)
It’s a Pittsburgh election analyst.
It’s better and more detailed and less scary than Kornacki’s.
topclimber
@topclimber: Oops. Meant for Tom Levenson.
EmanG
Dog damnit! I finally realize my years long dream of moving out of AZ and a) it goes blue in the prez b) 2 dem senators c) taxes on the rich going to teachers and d) the cruelest cut of all, legal weed!! All I get out of it is GA going blue and the chance to elect 2 new dem senators and fuck McConnell. So, maybe not a total loss…
a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio
@LuciaMia: I suspect the National Gallery et al. have experts standing by.
Brachiator
@zzyzx:
Yep. The CNN home page keeps varying headlines like “Biden on the Brink,” “Biden on the Verge,” and “Biden’s Lead Grows.”
Might as well just say “Biden His Time”
And so, I keep asking,
Are we there yet?
No One You Know
@germy: Princess knows who’s the Big Boy now.
No One You Know
@pacem appellant: Preach it, brother.
brantl
@pacem appellant:Â Just tell that person that with Covid and mail in ballots, and how wonderful Stump’s minions have made the postal service, dead people’s votes could easily be valid, when they were cast.