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You are here: Home / Politics / America / Breaking: President-elect Biden Has Chosen GEN (ret) Lloyd Austin as His Nominee To Be the Next Secretary of Defense

Breaking: President-elect Biden Has Chosen GEN (ret) Lloyd Austin as His Nominee To Be the Next Secretary of Defense

by Adam L Silverman|  December 7, 20208:30 pm| 145 Comments

This post is in: America, Biden-Harris 2020, Election 2020, Military, Open Threads, Politics, Silverman on Security

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CNN has just reported that President-elect Biden has selected GEN (ret) Lloyd Austin to his Secretary of Defense.

President-elect Joe Biden has selected retired Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, the former commander of US Central Command, to be his secretary of defense, a source familiar with the decision told CNN on Monday.

If confirmed by the Senate, Austin would be the first Black man to lead the Department of Defense.

In addition to serving as commander of United States Central Command, Austin previously served as the vice chief of staff of the Army.

Politico was first to report on Biden’s selection of Austin.

Austin would need a congressional waiver to be confirmed for the civilian post because he retired from active-duty service only four years ago. Federal law requires seven years of retirement from active duty before taking on the role.

I think this is selection is the result of the previous relationship that President-elect Biden has with GEN (ret) Austin. When President Obama decided to replace Secretary Mattis as the commanding general of US Central Command, he selected GEN (ret) Austin for that position. As the commanding general of the Geographic Combatant Command (GCC) with the most active area of responsibility (AOR), GEN (ret) Austin would have been in regular contact, often several times a day, with President Obama, Vice President Biden, and their senior national security advisors. As a result, President-elect Biden likely has a very good feel for GEN (ret) Austin and, as seems to be the case with almost every one of his selections so far, is going with senior, qualified, experienced people that he is comfortable with based on prior relationships. There was reporting several weeks ago that President-elect Biden did not have much of a personal relationship at all with Michelle Flournoy, who was being reported as the leading candidate for this nomination, and that this was an issue for the President-elect. The selection of GEN (ret) Austin would seem to confirm this.

GEN (ret) Austin is more than qualified and capable to run the Department of Defense. But, as CNN reported, he has only been retired for four years and will, as a result, require the same waiver from Congress that Secretary Mattis required. Hopefully, unlike Secretary Mattis, GEN (ret) Austin will be able to overcome a 40 plus year career’s worth of conditioning to be overly deferential to the President as commander in chief of the military. Given that he has a very different personality and temperament than Secretary Mattis, and that President-elect Biden is, in many ways, the polar opposite of Trump, this will hopefully not be a problem for the Biden administration as it was for the Trump administration.

Open thread!

Full disclosure: I know GEN (ret) Austin, but not well. I met him in Iraq in 2008 when he was the Commanding General of 10th Mountain Division. The brigade combat team my team was assigned to had been split off from the rest of 1st Armored Division in Multi-National Division North and sent south and east of Baghdad to Multi-National Division Central. 10th Mountain Division fortunately took over Multi-National Division Central two months into our deployment. I met GEN Austin when he came to our FOB as part of his initial battlefield circulation. I was introduced to him, he spoke to me for about 90 seconds, and my part of his briefing lasted about two minutes tops. I also provided support to him when he was the Commanding General of CENTCOM via his Command Sergeant Major, who was my point of contact in the CENTCOM command group. He might recognize my name, but if I was standing next to him he would most likely not know me from Adam and I am Adam!

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Reader Interactions

145Comments

  1. 1.

    Doc Sardonic

    December 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm

    Biden’s first unforced error

  2. 2.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @Doc Sardonic: Maybe, maybe not. After thinking about it, as well as several comments made in response to it, I added an ETA to my post on this from last Friday. Specifically:

    Edited to Add (ETA):

    I want to clarify a point or two as there seems to be some confusion in the comments. I am not arguing that GEN (ret) Austin would not be a good Secretary of Defense. Nor am I arguing that one of the other people whose names have been floated as a potential choice are better choices. What I am arguing is that if GEN (ret) Austin is selected by President-elect Biden, he will have to overcome the same career’s worth of conditioning to defer to the President as commander in chief of the military that Secretary Mattis could not overcome. While GEN (ret) Austin is not Secretary Mattis – they are very different senior military leaders – this will be a key challenge. Of course, as a number of you have pointed out in your comments, President-elect Biden is not Trump, so the dynamic between Secretary of Defense and President would be very, very, very different from the start.

  3. 3.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:38 pm

    Nope. Not another former general.

    Nope. Nope. Nope.

    Bad, bad idea.

    The rule in democracies is civilian control of the military. A retired general is not a civilian in that sense. We have had too much nonsense in government to tolerate this kind of irregularity.

    When Mattis’s waiver was granted, a number of senators said they wouldn’t do it again. Will be interesting to see if they change their minds. Presumably they will make their views known to President-elect Biden, most likely privately.

    I think there’s some chance this is a trial balloon, to test out the possibility of a waiver. There were a number of false reports/ trial balloons for Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham in one or another Cabinet position, which ended with her turning down whatever might have been offered (not necessarily what was reported).

  4. 4.

    Carolina Dave

    December 7, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    Great choice. On many levels.

  5. 5.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 7, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yes.  My takeaway from all that is that if it’s an error, it’s a trivial one that mostly has to do with symbolic precedents.

  6. 6.

    John Revolta

    December 7, 2020 at 8:40 pm

    Adam, care to comment on the chances of getting the waiver from Congress?

  7. 7.

    Jeffro

    December 7, 2020 at 8:42 pm

    Great choice, President-elect Biden!

    Next topic: trumpov is on his 3rd (that we know of) attempt to personally sway a state governor/house speaker/election official to overturn the results of the 2020 election and declare him the winner.

    What would we call it if a losing Democratic presidential candidate did it?  What would we call it if we saw it happening in another country?

    What are we doing, just hanging in there until tomorrow, America?  It’s not like the orange moron isn’t going to continue his corrupt and escalating attacks on the election and our democracy.

  8. 8.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    I see that the General-fu is strong with jackals

  9. 9.

    Doc Sardonic

    December 7, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Don’t have a dog in this fight as I am not military or military adjacent, but my argument is that regardless of “personal relationship” or no personal relationship, I believe a civilian needs to be SecDef to maintain the civilian control of the military. Biden is hiring people to do a job not get together for beer and BBQ or for unlawful carnal knowledge so in my view personal relationship is unnecessary.

  10. 10.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:46 pm

    Anyway, the point is the SecDef is not the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Their roles are different; they do different things. We expect different things from top military commanders to what we expect from SecDefs, and it's unhealthy to blur those roles.

    — Pwn All The Things (@pwnallthethings) December 8, 2020

  11. 11.

    The Moar You Know

    December 7, 2020 at 8:46 pm

    The only real mistake Biden can make is to appoint a Republican to his cabinet.  He has not done so, yet.  I hope he does not do so.

    This was not my preference, but then again, Biden is not the kind of guy who beats his staff into compliance.

  12. 12.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:47 pm

    The two retired four-stars who have led DOD:

    -George Marshall, *after* serving as SecState (“Marshall Plan” etc); and

    -J Mattis, during Trump emergency.

    Unless a recent 4-star is another Marshall, hard to make case that another ex-general is best pick for DOD..

    — James Fallows (@JamesFallows) December 8, 2020

  13. 13.

    Baud

    December 7, 2020 at 8:48 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    The fact that Republicans won’t admit he won the election makes that a little easier.

  14. 14.

    Yutsano

    December 7, 2020 at 8:48 pm

    I guess we’ll see what Yertle decides to allow depending on how the Georgia races shake out.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    December 7, 2020 at 8:50 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I suppose if Congress doesn’t grant a waiver, that’ll be precedent too.

  16. 16.

    Darkrose

    December 7, 2020 at 8:50 pm

    I understand the concerns about having an ex-general, but this feels like a challenge nomination in some ways. “Y’all are really going to refuse to confirm the first Black SecDef, who is also military, when you were fine with Mattis?”

  17. 17.

    Baud

    December 7, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @Darkrose:

    Right.  It’s kind of win-win for Biden.

  18. 18.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @John Revolta: We’ll be watching two different dynamics. If the Democrats that opposed last time for Mattis still oppose this time now that it is Biden and not Trump doing the nominating. And whether the Republicans who beat up those Democrats for opposing the waiver for Mattis suddenly switch their positions and oppose the waiver for Austin.

  19. 19.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    December 7, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: How ’bout FDR picking Colonel Stimson – was that a bad pick, too?

  20. 20.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 7, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: FWIW, I’m with you. A guy barely four years out of a four-decade military career is not in any meaningful sense a civilian.

  21. 21.

    zhena gogolia

    December 7, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    I’m not second-guessing Biden.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    December 7, 2020 at 8:53 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Do you remember how many Dems opposed Mattis on that basis?

  23. 23.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: That’s going back a mighty long way to a very different situation.

  24. 24.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    December 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm

    Mattis was confirmed 98-1.  Even Bernie and Warren supported him.

  25. 25.

    Another Scott

    December 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: I don’t like the idea of having to ask for a waiver either, but let’s see Biden’s rationale.

    Maybe he sees the next SecDef as being a job like “only Nixon could go to China” and thinks he needs someone he has worked with for ages, and someone who has been inside the belly of the beast for ages, and someone who is also a very important symbol for the DoD and the country.  Maybe Biden thinks that the Pentagon needs a major reorganization and thinks that Austin is the guy to do it.

    Mattis was a bad pick.  Maybe Austin will be the exception that proves the rule?

    Dunno.  I guess we’ll find out.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @Baud: Not off the top of my head.

  27. 27.

    Yutsano

    December 7, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    @zhena gogolia:  You’re pretty much where I am.

    Do you want to pop into the Zoom chat with us?

  28. 28.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    The Senate approved a waiver for General Mattis on a vote of 81-17, but @SenJackReed, the top Democrat on Armed Services Committee, said at the time this should only be done once in a long while. We are about to hear a lot more about waivers–and the defense contracting business.

    — Jeff Zeleny (@jeffzeleny) December 8, 2020

  29. 29.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 8:58 pm

    Here's the full list of 17 Senate Democrats who voted against a waiver of the seven-year rule for Mattis to serve as SecDef back in 2017: pic.twitter.com/xCtyBnM3b1

    — Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) December 8, 2020

  30. 30.

    zhena gogolia

    December 7, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @Yutsano:

    I had three Zoom meetings this afternoon. And I’m in my nightgown now. Have fun! I’d be happy to join on a more auspicious day.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    December 7, 2020 at 9:00 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:  Thanks.

    They’ll be in tight spot.  I’d like to see the Dems stay consistent.

  32. 32.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    December 7, 2020 at 9:04 pm

    Obama fired Mattis because MadDog was constantly advocating war with Iran and Syria.   He replaced him with Austin and they got along great, presumably because he wasn’t a warmonger like MadDog.

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 9:05 pm

    I’m off to walk the dogs. Back in about 45 minutes or so. Try not to overthrow the Biden administration before it has begun.

  34. 34.

    Amir Khalid

    December 7, 2020 at 9:05 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Nor would I.

  35. 35.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 9:06 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m not exactly sure what you mean by that.

  36. 36.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 7, 2020 at 9:07 pm

    “Don’t like him? Fine. I’ll take whoever the Squad Plus Bernie recommends, even if it IS the hackey-sack playing, knit cap vegan hot dog vendor that sells his wholesome crap in Brooklyn up by Williamsburg when he’s not high…”

  37. 37.

    Baud

    December 7, 2020 at 9:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You’re not the boss of me.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 9:08 pm

    There may be another angle to this. A colleague just reminded me that GEN (ret) Austin is politically conservative. So if Biden is asked: “why didn’t you appoint a Republican?”, he can point to Austin and respond “I appointed a conservative.”

  39. 39.

    Kent

    December 7, 2020 at 9:08 pm

    @Darkrose:  I understand the concerns about having an ex-general, but this feels like a challenge nomination in some ways. “Y’all are really going to refuse to confirm the first Black SecDef, who is also military, when you were fine with Mattis?”

    Exactly.  No way the GOP gins up 51 Senate votes against a politically conservative Black General.   the optics on that are no win for them.   And the next one up will be someone they like less, guaranteed.  If they are going to take a scalp it is 100-times more likely to be someone like Becerra, who has a history as a left-wing Congressman and AG doing things like supporting abortion rights.

  40. 40.

    Ronno2018

    December 7, 2020 at 9:10 pm

    NY Times already has an opinion piece that this is bad and we need a civilian.

    Personally I do not care. I just want to take 50% of the defense budget and allocate it to homelessness solutions.

    What a whacky country we live in…

  41. 41.

    zhena gogolia

    December 7, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    @Ronno2018:

    The NYT can shove it up their ass.

  42. 42.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 7, 2020 at 9:15 pm

    @Ronno2018:

    That would be a bigger waste of resources than dumping it into the defense budget.

    How about scaling out healthcare, higher education and mass transit instead, actually doing something smart with it?

  43. 43.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 7, 2020 at 9:17 pm

    I know GEN (ret) Austin, but not well.

    So you’re saying he knows you from Adam.

  44. 44.

    TS (the original)

    December 7, 2020 at 9:18 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I dislike that so many people call Sanders a democrat. There were 16 dem senators and one independent (edit: directed at the tweet, not you)

  45. 45.

    debbie

    December 7, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Seconded.

  46. 46.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 7, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    @TS (the original): The guy who Tweeted that followed up quickly with a correction: 16 Dems and Sanders.

  47. 47.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 9:21 pm

    @TS (the original): The tweet actually had that appended, so others made that point too

    ETA: G&T beat me to it.

  48. 48.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 7, 2020 at 9:21 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I sentiment with which I concur.

  49. 49.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 7, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    Not thrilled by this pick. OTOH, he’s done well so far. Maybe he’s a good pick; maybe it’ll be a Biden pick I disagree with forever.

  50. 50.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 7, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    @Darkrose: I was thinking the same thing.

  51. 51.

    rikyrah

    December 7, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    The dangerous Black Man??

    New: Republicans barely mention Jon Ossoff, Perdue won't debate him. They've chosen a villain in this race and it's Raphael Warnock. @jmartNYT and me https://t.co/VHUJOtfpiZ— Steadman™ (@AsteadWesley) December 8, 2020

  52. 52.

    Amir Khalid

    December 7, 2020 at 9:27 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    When running for president, Bernie is a Democrat. At all other times, he’s an independent. I don’t understand the Democratic party’s persistent failure to call him out on this bullshit.

  53. 53.

    John Revolta

    December 7, 2020 at 9:28 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I suspect I know what the Repubs will do (i.e. what McConnell tells them). And what they do, they do in lockstep.

  54. 54.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 7, 2020 at 9:29 pm

    IIRC everyone in the media was gushing about the Mattis appointment 4 years ago.

  55. 55.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 7, 2020 at 9:32 pm

    @Darkrose: People on this  blog and in the media were making excuses for  Mattis even when he sent troops to the southern border to deal with the “caravan” in the run up to 2018 midterm elections. It was always Mad dog this and Warrior Monk that.

  56. 56.

    CaseyL

    December 7, 2020 at 9:33 pm

    DAMMIT!  I missed the Zoom with Tom.

    I had some work issues that went way past my nominal quitting time, so it couldn’t be helped – but I am still really really bummed.

    My apologies, Tom! Hopefully you’ll do this again.

  57. 57.

    patrick II

    December 7, 2020 at 9:34 pm

    Regardless of Austin, the biggest difference will be a president who listens.

  58. 58.

    rikyrah

    December 7, 2020 at 9:35 pm

    Have nothing against him.

    Told you that one of the Big Four had to be Black.

  59. 59.

    sdhays

    December 7, 2020 at 9:36 pm

    From Kamala on down, Biden seems to keep sticking to the people he feels he knows pretty well. In general, that strategy makes sense considering the horrible position the new administration is going to be in. He doesn’t have time for the whole team to get to know him and one another.

    I’m kind of disappointed that there’s not a civilian with the right mix of expertise, experience, and personal relationship with Biden to be chosen instead of a career military guy, especially a “conservative” one (I’m pretty fucking tired of having to appoint a “conservative” to lead the military or law enforcement), but Gen. Austin may turn out to be a great Secretary of Defense.

    I’m content to trust that Biden and Harris know what they’re doing.

  60. 60.

    John Revolta

    December 7, 2020 at 9:36 pm

    @Kent: Optics schmoptics. The only thing that Repub Senators are gonna be concerned with is stonewalling Biden’s every move. If we don’t get both seats in GA we’re gonna be amazed by how pigheaded McConnell’s Lackeys are gonna be.

  61. 61.

    jonas

    December 7, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    I agree that Gen. Austin seems like a very smart, very capable sage elder commander. Sounding him out privately or in some advisory capacity (NatSec council?) seems like a good idea for any president. As SecDef? I would be lying if I said I wasn’t a bit disappointed now. Reinforcing (non-political hack) civilian control of the Pentagon was a Detrumpification priority, imo.

  62. 62.

    Alison Rose

    December 7, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    I know literally nothing about military stuff and see good points on both sides of this discussion, and maybe this is just post-Trump (almost!) trauma, but I’m just like “Is this person better than anyone who Trump has picked/would pick in the future if he’d won? Yes? Okay, I’m good.”

    What I am happy about is seeing my awesome AG tapped for HHS! I mean, we’ll miss him here, but I’m sure we have plenty of good choices to take his place as AG, and damn will it be nice to have someone with a brain and a heart in HHS, especially right now. Plus, Becerra is so good at the “I will very politely show you how few fucks I have to give for your bullshit” thing.

  63. 63.

    Kent

    December 7, 2020 at 9:40 pm

    @Amir Khalid:When running for president, Bernie is a Democrat. At all other times, he’s an independent. I don’t understand the Democratic party’s persistent failure to call him out on this bullshit.

    When running for president he is still an independent.  Nowhere on his presidential campaign web site or his Senate web site did he ever identify himself as a Democrat or mention the Democratic party.  In fact during the height of the primary his Senate web site still identified himself as an Independent.

  64. 64.

    Poe Larity

    December 7, 2020 at 9:41 pm

    What civilians are qualified who arent sitting on the BoD of Lockheed or Boeing?

  65. 65.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    @rikyrah: What are the Big Four?

  66. 66.

    sdhays

    December 7, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: To be fair, even considering he was an ineffective Secretary of Defense, a complete idiot in areas outside his war-related expertise, and just bad in numerous ways, Mattis was still the best member of Dump’s Cabinet. It was a huge relief that there would be at least one “adult” in the room. He was always going to be graded on a curve compared to his peers.

  67. 67.

    kindness

    December 7, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    What you want to bet Republicans pull a dick move and refuse to give General Austin that waiver?  Yea….if nothing else some cretins on the right will suggest this is a hostage situation that requires bribery.

  68. 68.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 7, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @WaterGirl: I’m guessing Defense, State, Chief of Staff and… Treasury?

  69. 69.

    sdhays

    December 7, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @WaterGirl: I think that refers to the high profile National Security-related Cabinet positions: AG, Sec. State, Sec. Def, and Sec of DHS.

    ETA:

    @MisterForkbeard:  LOL. I guess we need a clarification!

  70. 70.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 7, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @sdhays: Also Republican Presidents even one as disgusting and inept as the one in office right now are held to lower standards than Democrats.

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    December 7, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    He went to West Point 50 years ago.

    I can’t even imagine what it took to make it through West Point Fifty  Years Ago.?

  72. 72.

    Amir Khalid

    December 7, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    @Kent:

    By letting him run for the Democratic nomination, the party is tacitly accepting him as one of its own. That makes him a Democrat in the perception of many Democratic voters.

  73. 73.

    rikyrah

    December 7, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Treasury

    Defense

    State

    Attorney General

  74. 74.

    Timill

    December 7, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    @sdhays: “Departments of State, Defense, Justice and the Treasury ”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/12/16/women-and-minorities-could-be-missing-from-the-cabinets-big-four-jobs-for-the-first-time-since-1993/

  75. 75.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 7, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    @Kent: Which Party’s nomination was he running for?

  76. 76.

    rikyrah

    December 7, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    @Alison Rose:

    I am very pleased at him going to HHS.

    To have someone who has been fighting the legal battle for healthcare for years. Someone looking to push back and expand healthcare for Americans???

  77. 77.

    guachi

    December 7, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    From what I can see, Austin left the military and went right into working for the defense industry. Did he devote his post military career to the men and women who serve? No, he devoted his post-military career to a defense manufacturer.

    He showed where his loyalty was and it wasn’t to servicemembers. No on Austin.

  78. 78.

    sdhays

    December 7, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: There are no standards for Republican Presidents. That should be abundantly clear now (although for too many, it’s still not).

  79. 79.

    sdhays

    December 7, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    @Timill: 3 out of 4!

  80. 80.

    The Moar You Know

    December 7, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    By letting him run for the Democratic nomination, the party is tacitly accepting him as one of its own. That makes him a Democrat in the perception of many Democratic voters.

    @Amir Khalid:  The Democratic Party doesn’t have a choice; you register for a year as a Democrat, you’re a Democrat, and if you have the money and votes, you can run for president.

    I wish he wouldn’t, but we get no choice in the matter.

    It is not a question of “letting him”, sadly.

  81. 81.

    HinTN

    December 7, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    @rikyrah: Exactly! I was astounded to hear a radio ad, admittedly out of Chattanooga which covers north Georgia, demonizing Warnock with no mention of Ossoff.

  82. 82.

    patrick II

    December 7, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    Is there a “democratic” defense theory/policy for which it would be useful to have a specifically democrat to implement? How does it relate to a broader theory that is unique to democrats and includes state department objectives. Or is it entirely practical and a republican or general could do it as well?

  83. 83.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @rikyrah: thank you!

  84. 84.

    HinTN

    December 7, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @Amir Khalid: It’s worse than that. He “runs” in the Dem primary and wins, thereby cutting to real opposition off at the knees. Then he declines the nomination and runs as an Independent.

  85. 85.

    debbie

    December 7, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    @patrick II:

    Exactly right.

  86. 86.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 7, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Lyndon LaRouche ran as a Democrat and garnered enough votes to get some delegates to the Democratic National Convention. The Democratic National Committee refused to seat them. Don’t recall which year that was, but they are not powerless.

  87. 87.

    debbie

    December 7, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    @HinTN: 

    So then, standard GOP strategy?

  88. 88.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    December 7, 2020 at 10:03 pm

    I’m inclined to wait until at least Jan 21 or 22 to decide that Biden has completely screwed up his presidency with one of his appointments.

  89. 89.

    Kent

    December 7, 2020 at 10:06 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:@Kent: Which Party’s nomination was he running for?

    Doesn’t mean he ever once admitted to being a Democrat.

  90. 90.

    Dan B

    December 7, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    @patrick II: Personnel decisions and contracting integrity are two areas that a Dem perspective can be different.  Trans and LGBTQ treatment are on area.  Contracts can get ugly or be done with transparency.

  91. 91.

    CaseyL

    December 7, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    What @Ceci n est pas mon nym  said.

    Maybe in a normal era, nominating a retired General for what should be a civilian position would be a more important issue for me.

    But the US in 2020 is so far from normal that I’m not going to devote much brainspace to this particular issue.  (GEN (ret) Austin seems to be, that issue aside, a good choice for DoD.)

    Biden may yet nominate someone who I think is a very bad choice for significant reasons.  Or propose a policy I think is a bad idea for significant reasons.

    But unless and until he does so, I’m going to give Biden a luxury hardly any new Democratic President ever gets:  I’m going to trust his judgment and his team’s judgment, and not snipe from the sidelines.

    So there.

  92. 92.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    @HinTN: To me that says that they think Warnock has a better chance of being elected.  They must not think Ossoff has a chance.

  93. 93.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: There is daylight between “I think this was a terrible choice” and “Biden screwed up his entire presidency” with this choice.

  94. 94.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 7, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    @WaterGirl: But fighting straw men is easier.

  95. 95.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 7, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    @WaterGirl: State, Treasury, DOD, and AG.

  96. 96.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    One note on the Warnock attacks – Loeffler the Looter has been weaker in polling recently than Perdue, so the GOP might be concentrating on Warnock simply to try and boost her chances. She looked wretchedly unfit for office in the debate between them, which might also have something to do with it.

    I think Biden’s choice of Austin makes some sense from the point of view of political optics, although I would have preferred Flournoy.

    Brief note of sympathy for Cole as his Steelers lose their chance at a perfect season.

  97. 97.

    JaySinWA

    December 7, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @WaterGirl: I think it says they think Warnock is a better target. They ignore Ossoff and let both R’s run against Warnock. Play on racism and the black boogieman.

  98. 98.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    December 7, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @WaterGirl: OK, then I’m inclined to wait until Jan 21 or 22 to decide any appointment is a terrible choice.

    I find that I have very little tolerance right now for any pre-criticism of Biden. I see the comedians trying to find their new post-Trump satirical bits (like Jim Carrey’s version of Biden, exacerbated by how much I hate Carrey) and I have a hard time laughing. I just feel raw and I want the guy to get started.

  99. 99.

    Kent

    December 7, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @WaterGirl:@HinTN: To me that says that they think Warnock has a better chance of being elected.  They must not think Ossoff has a chance.

    To me it says they know they only need to win 1 of the 2 and their best chance of doing that is driving down Warnock’s favorables.

    Plus, Perdue obviously doesn’t want to run against Ossoff who has his balls.  Easier for him to run against Warnoff.

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    December 7, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    @WaterGirl: I’m guessing that Ossoff vs Perdue is seen by the GOP powers-that-be as “young white guy with progressive ideas and no downside” vs “demonstrably corrupt old white guy who can’t handle basic questions at a debate”

    So…no reason for the GOP to jump to Perdue’s defense, there!

    They’re treating this as one election (it’s not like there are going to be a whole lot of ticket-splitters!), and Warnock is the GOP’s only possible opportunity to run its usual racist, inflammatory playbook.

    Boogeyman?  Ossoff ain’t it.  (Warnock isn’t either, in a reality-based universe, but these are Fox and OAN people we’re talking about)

    We Dems are somewhat fortunate that the two GOP candidates are so obviously corrupt (since neither did anything about the pandemic but dump potentially affected stocks) and both are completely out-of-touch with the concerns of working families.

  101. 101.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @rikyrah: I never said one of the Big Four shouldn’t or couldn’t be.

  102. 102.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I personally think that Jim Carrey’s Biden is not half as good as Jason Sudeikis’ version.

  103. 103.

    Elizabelle

    December 7, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, you will like this.  A licensed NYC architect has designed the Trump Presidential Library site.  It is a parody.  Has a Hall of Enablers, etc.

    https://djtrumplibrary.com

    Snarky article in the LA Times.
    Who is behind the fake Trump Presidential Library website? We talk to the anonymous architect

  104. 104.

    mad citizen

    December 7, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @Morzer: “Brief note of sympathy for Cole as his Steelers lose their chance at a perfect season.”

    Tonight while over on espn (the website) I fully realized how ridiculous the “Washington Football Team” name is, browsed on amazon, etc., but resisted the urge to buy a t shirt.  There are only a couple of t shirts (on the web, not sure about amazon) showing the redskin potatoes, which has long been one of my ideas.

  105. 105.

    catclub

    December 7, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @Darkrose: “Y’all are really going to refuse to confirm the first Black SecDef, who is also military, when you were fine with Mattis?”

     

    you and I would think this would make a difference to them, but consistency is another norm to break. Ask Barrett and merrick garland.

  106. 106.

    Brachiator

    December 7, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    I have no strong opinion about Austin, but I really appreciate many of the comments here, especially the insights of Cheryl and Adam.

    I note, however, that some past Defense Secretaries have been pretty crappy, even though they were civilians, and a number of them seem to have been selected from a narrow band of the WASP upper class.

  107. 107.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 7, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    to find their new post-Trump satirical bits (like Jim Carrey’s version of Biden, exacerbated by how much I hate Carrey)

    I think the only people who think that works are Carrey and Lorne Michaels

    Carrey was on Marc Maron’s podcast a few weeks ago and I lasted for about four minutes of the strained attempts at laid-back profundity

  108. 108.

    catclub

    December 7, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @Jeffro: interesting. I thought the opposite.  GOP will always vote for the White man, not so much for the woman.

     

    I guess we will see.

  109. 109.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @mad citizen: I have to constantly resist the temptation to switch the order of the letters in WFT to something which more accurately reflects my view of that team under the disgusting Dan Snyder.

  110. 110.

    sdhays

    December 7, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @Morzer: I agree with that, but at least part of that, to me, is that the writing for Carrey’s Biden has been pretty awful.

  111. 111.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: How is it pre-criticism when he has apparently chosen this person for a very critical position?

    To me pre-criticism would be if people were bitching because of some rumor that Biden might choose so-and so.

  112. 112.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Kent:

    Perdue obviously doesn’t want to run against Ossoff who has his balls.  Easier for him to run against Warnoff.

    Interesting to see that the Rs are treating this as running against one will bring down both Dems.  I hope they are wrong. I could only watch a few minutes of Loeffler in the debate because she was lying every time she opened her mouth.

  113. 113.

    mad citizen

    December 7, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    @Elizabelle: OK, this is excellent!  Thanks for the post.  I loved the giant Herman Cain tweet along the COVID reflecting pool.

  114. 114.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    @sdhays: True, but there’s something about Carrey’s deranged demeanor that just doesn’t fit with even a comic version of Biden.

  115. 115.

    mad citizen

    December 7, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @Morzer: There are a few WTF t shirts on amazon where people rearranged the words so it is “Washington Team of Football”.

  116. 116.

    Sure Lurkalot

    December 7, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    You can’t always get what you wa…ant.

  117. 117.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    @WaterGirl: Loeffler just looked as if she couldn’t be bothered with this tedious election business and thought she should be reappointed because of how awesome she is. Warnock managed to land some stinging blows on her and got a petulant reaction, but it was clear she thought the whole business of asking voters for their support was a waste of her precious time.

  118. 118.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    @mad citizen: I do love the drop of pure, mocking evil that resides at the bottom of every football fan’s heart.

  119. 119.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 7, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Nope, it’s the original cabinet members.  State, Treasury, Justice and War.

  120. 120.

    mad citizen

    December 7, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I hope that Carrey or Lorne Michaels will realize the Biden impression did not work at all.  More to the point, though, is that snl’s political stuff is just too boring as they mostly just recreate what happened that week.  Put the “characters” in some other situation or something.  Reality became a parody the last 5 years.

  121. 121.

    patrick II

    December 7, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    The trouble for me with who having a satirical Biden and a satirical Trump is that it puts them i roughly equivalent states. You can’t  exaggerate Trump enough to distance him from Biden.

    And I dislike Carry about as much as you do.

  122. 122.

    Ruckus

    December 7, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Not in every corner. Like this one.

    I’m against ex/retired senior officers being Sec Defense. For the same reason that others have stated, this is supposed to be a civilian run government and I find it exceedingly difficult to believe a career military officer who has achieved multiple star rank can do that completely. I can’t even believe a career enlisted person could do that. Now that having been said, I also don’t think it’s completely impossible and Joe does know the man. There also may be advantages in that he does know how the people under him are going to act in some situations and he may be able to control them better.

    I’m still against it, experience shows this not to be a good situation in that the vast majority of career military people do see the military as a solution to an awful lot of issues. And does the world really need that?

    Also, at the end of the day, we voted in Joe Biden to do the job, and to do it the way he sees fit. I think we have to accept that Joe knows what he’s doing. He has more info than we do, he has far more experience than any of us, or even most of us put together.

  123. 123.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 7, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @WaterGirl: To me pre-criticism would be if people were bitching because of some rumor that Biden might choose so-and so.

    I shall criticize before I criticize!

    To me, bitching about rumors would warrant a smack to the skeleton (preferably with another skeleton – plastic alllowed – see if this fine thespian is still around) and telling the person to chill the fuck out.

  124. 124.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 7, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: And that’s why I deleted my comment.

  125. 125.

    zhena gogolia

    December 7, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I’m with you.

  126. 126.

    zhena gogolia

    December 7, 2020 at 10:49 pm

    @Morzer:

    Woody Harrelson was the best Biden.

  127. 127.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 7, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    @mad citizen: More to the point, though, is that snl’s political stuff is just too boring as they mostly just recreate what happened that week.

    How can you parody a parody?

    Look at this shit from today.

    This is unreal. Trump abruptly walked out of Dan Gable’s Medal of Freedom ceremony today, leaving Gable shrugging and at a complete loss about what he was supposed to do. pic.twitter.com/mOzlLn8poC— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 8, 2020

  128. 128.

    Morzer

    December 7, 2020 at 10:51 pm

    @mad citizen: I think that the Trump sons’ sketches work better than most because they are better written and not just a rehash of the latest abomination.

  129. 129.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 7, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @Ruckus:  I find it exceedingly difficult to believe a career military officer who has achieved multiple star rank can do that completely. I can’t even believe a career enlisted person could do that.

    It’s always fun to find reverse snobbery in the wild.

  130. 130.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 7, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @Morzer: And they take the assclownery of those two shitheads to 11.

    “I’m Eric!”

  131. 131.

    Ruckus

    December 7, 2020 at 10:58 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Maybe it’s because I served during a very unpopular war and met and served under some real asshole officers. And yes I met and served under some very good ones as well. Actually a bigger percentage of the officers were OK vs the enlisted lifers. But the range of good to bad was also wider with the enlisted. YMMV.

  132. 132.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 7, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    To all those who are saying “Biden knows best.”

    I’ll go along with Biden’s choices and had planned not to criticize any of them, but I feel strongly enough about the primacy of civilians over the military that I’m gonna say something about this one now. I’ll point it out again if it causes problems and if Austin is indeed the choice, which we won’t know for sure until Biden announces it.

    I also think that the people initially in Biden’s cabinet are likely to be changed out within two years or so. Their job is to fix what’s broken. Once they’ve done that, we’ll need different people to move things forward.

  133. 133.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 7, 2020 at 11:05 pm

    @Ruckus: I just thought it was a bizarre comment.

  134. 134.

    Yarrow

    December 7, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    @Morzer:

    I personally think that Jim Carrey’s Biden is not half as good as Jason Sudeikis’ version.

    Agreed. I can’t even watch Carrey’s Biden. It’s terrible. He doesn’t get at the heart of what makes Biden who he is. Jason Sudekis was soooo much better. Have no idea why they didn’t bring him back for it.

    I really like Colbert’s take on Biden. Colbert doesn’t do much except put on the aviator shades, talk out of one side of his mouth and use folksy language but he just captures what makes Biden. The sunniness. The good at heart. The kindness. The depth. He gets it. Carrey has none of that.

  135. 135.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 7, 2020 at 11:09 pm

    Code Pink seems to have a backhanded endorsement of Austin.

  136. 136.

    planetjanet

    December 7, 2020 at 11:11 pm

    @CaseyL: I like the theory that one of the commenters was saying the other day.  Most of the choices for the cabinet now are only going to make it for two years.  They have to rebuild the infrastructure and repair the damage.  For that you have to know what was there before.  It will be exhausting work.  The next choices can be where Biden wants policy to go for the future.  Right now we have hull breaches on the ship of state.  No time for an amateur to learn on the job.

  137. 137.

    WaterGirl

    December 7, 2020 at 11:12 pm

    @Morzer: I’m sure she considers campaigning beneath her.  I am repulsed by her.

  138. 138.

    The Lodger

    December 7, 2020 at 11:18 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: You forgot Death, Famine, and Pestilence.

  139. 139.

    dww44

    December 7, 2020 at 11:37 pm

    @rikyrah: As I was a young adult at the time, and newly married to a spouse who had returned wounded from Viet Nam, I recollect that it was in the military that Black Americans were able to achieve parity at a far more rapid pace than in almost any other field/career. While anecdotal, Blacks in the military were an accepted fact in every military person’s life in the mid and late 60’s.  Spouse spent some of his high school years in Germany and one of his best friends was a Black son of an enlisted Army soldier, same as spouse’s Dad.

  140. 140.

    patrick II

    December 8, 2020 at 12:20 am

    @Yarrow:

    Carry does the same thing he always does — he has that kind of weird grin that he thinks is funny.  Some people though it worked for Ace Ventura.  I didn’t, but it certainly doesn’t work for Joe.

  141. 141.

    smintheus

    December 8, 2020 at 1:29 am

    I’m already so fucking sick of Biden’s love in with the military. It would be bad enough in the abstract, but after 4 years of this same shit with Trump and his overt, ugly politicization of the military, his repeated threats to declare martial law, his illegal use of the military to harass lawful protesters, Biden’s schtik is getting nauseating. No goddam way in the world a retired general should serve as SecDef, let alone a recently retired general. And now we have to watch Trump trying for weeks on end to engineer a coup – and this Biden shit is supposed to be taken as a return to normal?! If the military running our government is the new normal, then just kill the Republic now and forestall all the rioting and killing that will attend the obsequies when they come, as they’re bound to come.

    I’m beginning to wonder whether Biden has lost his frickin mind. Since when does every single person placed in a position of power have to have a pre-existing personal relationship with the president? Who gives a shit about that, it proves nothing about the person’s competence or bona fides. This is another part of the Trump play book, and it’s disturbing.

  142. 142.

    DCA

    December 8, 2020 at 1:55 am

    Agree with others that this is not ideal, but maybe good because difficult to attack; also that what will be needed first is a lot of repair work.

    That said, it seems that no one (I think) is seriously asking about the level of DoD funding–and, to show my preference, shrinking it. I can’t help thinking about the cost/benefit of having (say) one less carrier group and applying the money to public health instead. As it is, we’ve sustained the largest blow to our people and economy since, I don’t know, the Civil War, and all those trillions spent by DoD did nothing to stop it. Not to criticize them, it isn’t DoD’s job, but this says something about our national priorities.

    One of the (many, many) reasons to be happy about Biden is that Trump, when he thought about it, rather liked the idea of nuclear weapons, something we can only benefit by having fewer of.

  143. 143.

    slightly_peeved

    December 8, 2020 at 3:34 am

    I think the main selling point of Jim Carrey as Biden is him bringing out the old ‘Loo-hoo-ah-Hoo-ser’ bit from Ace Ventura.

  144. 144.

    Betty Cracker

    December 8, 2020 at 4:13 am

    @Adam L Silverman: The proper answer to that question is: “Because fuck you, that’s why.”

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    December 8, 2020 at 6:30 am

    I am not a fan of the junior Senator from Vermont. I thought Sanders sandbagged Clinton in 2016, and I don’t like the way he games the Vermont Democratic nomination process. And some of his hardcore supporters play a very malign role in Democratic politics. On the plus side, though, I’ve read that Sanders is more than a nominal member of the Senate Democratic Caucus, and is enough of a team player to be given some minor whip post.        But I think that as far as Senate progressives go, Sherrod Brown, not Sanders, is the real deal. If Kay ever shows up again, I would want to ask her how Brown wins reelection in a red state like Ohio.

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