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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Trump Vetoes The National Defense Authorization Act

Trump Vetoes The National Defense Authorization Act

by | 183 Comments

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The NDAA is the funding act for the military and a lot more. This year it also includes some serious anti-money-laundering provisions. Trump vetoed it, as he threatened, because it removes Confederate generals’ names from military bases and because it doesn’t revoke Section 230. Don’t ask me what Section 230 is. It has something to do with Trump’s love-hate relationship with social media.

Both houses of Congress passed the NDAA with enough votes that they will be able to override the veto.

Trump has also threatened to veto the COVID bill, which contains many things besides COVID relief. His ostensible gripe with it is that the checks it will send to people will be only $600, and he prefers $2000. He’s been able to get that into the negotiations since June or earlier, but it’s more attention-grabbing to do it now.

He’s set up an interesting problem for the Republicans with the $2000 demand. It’s what the Democrats wanted initially, and the Republicans knocked it down. Much of the kerfuffle has to do with the Georgia Senate runoffs, and it should be an advantage for Warnock and Ossoff.

Open thread!

Update: Whoops, it’s Authorization, not Appropriation. I’ve changed the heading. It’s an important distinction. Authorization says this is what may be spent for the various categories. Appropriation actually makes the money available.

Reader Interactions

183Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    One nice thing is that Trump had a lot of demands with respect to the appropriations/COVID bill that will never fly, but everyone is focusing on the checks.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    Ironically, deleting Section 230 would ensure that Trump’s Twitter account would be nuked from orbit within about 5 nanoseconds. That section gives Internet platforms fairly broad safety-from-lawsuits protections from things that people post onto those platforms. Make Twitter legally liable for any one of Trump’s tirades? Yeah, they’re not going to take that risk.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    One of the smartest things the framers did was say that Congress can’t fund the military for more than a year or two at a time.

  7. 7.

    Lex

    Trump is pissed about the anti-money-laundering provisions in the NDAA because money laundering is how he makes his money now and has been for some time. Stimulus? Base names? Section 230? Those are just excuses that conveniently poll well with the rubes. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

  8. 8.

    dm

    @Baud: What keeps this President from closing Gitmo is his desire to send his political opponents there.

    ETA: anti-money-laundering provisions?  Is that why Trump’s personal bankers resigned from Deutsche Bank the other day?

  10. 10.

    Kent

    All Trump is doing is getting Congress warmed up and accustomed to veto overrides so that they can do it again easier if he vetoes the covid relief bill.

  11. 11.

    TS (the original)

    Don’t ask me what Section 230 is. It has something to do with Trump’s love-hate relationship with social media

    I don’t know much about it but I’m thinking trump wants to sue twitter – especially when he is no longer president*.  From WaPo part of the reason for refusing to sign the bill

    failing to include an unrelated repeal of a law granting liability protections to technology companies that Trump has accused, without significant evidence of anti-conservative bias.

  12. 12.

    Brachiator

    Three more weeks of this crap.

    Is Trump just acting out? Does he want the GOP leadership to formally reject him?

  13. 13.

    Mary G

    The WaPo story about the Republican chickens running around is schadenfreudelicious:

    Meanwhile, Trump is displeased with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, his chief emissary to congressional leaders, and does not even want to speak to him about the issue, according to a senior administration official. Mnuchin, who first came up with the $600 figure for the checks, called GOP lawmakers in recent days and asked them to support the bill because the president supported it.

    Among those blindsided were Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), who were not told of the video in advance and called staffers to ask what was going on, according to three people familiar with the matter, who like others requested anonymity to discuss internal details.

    McConnell, who has been on the outs with Trump lately after he publicly acknowledged Joe Biden as the president-elect, does not plan to speak Trump about it, with one adviser to the majority leader saying he “does not think it would be helpful.”
    Legislative affairs staffers and others involved in the negotiations had no idea Trump was taping the video and apologized to the surprised lawmakers, officials said. He taped it around noon on Tuesday, even as other staffers continued to tell reporters and lawmakers that Trump was going to sign the bill.

    The script decrying the bill was not written by people involved in the negotiations, and aides have been trying to decipher where it came from. Several aides hoped he would still sign the bill, noting he did not explicitly say he would veto it.

    Meanwhile, aides are being flooded with concerns and questions from GOP lawmakers, many of whom are worried they are going to lose the Senate if Trump continues his behavior, a senior White House official said.

    “Only Trump could take a final big win for his administration and in a fit of illogical madness disown any credit he’ll ever get for it,” said another senior GOP official. “To the extent that Trump’s bizarre ramblings contribute to any negative feelings for Republicans, Perdue and Loeffler are the ones who will ultimately pay the price.”

    During his time in office, Trump has regularly thrown tantrums against legislation that advisers previously signaled he would endorse, prompting scrambles among those close to him to coax him into ultimately signing a bill. But in the last throes of his presidency, many of the guardrails have been removed through departures — leaving the tempestuous Trump to his own devices.

    White House staff secretary Derek Lyons would usually coordinate the process for a video such as the one posted by Trump on Twitter late Tuesday that upended the relief package, by circulating scripts for approval. But Lyons’s last day was Friday, and White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told staff not to circulate the script for the relief bill video, according to aides.

    As for Meadows himself, he is not in Washington and left town before Trump posted it on Twitter. The chief of staff had told aides to keep the video closely held and had been one of the main forces within the administration arguing against the larger, $2,000 stimulus checks that the president is now pushing, making the case that enlarging the payments could blow up the entire negotiations, according to people familiar with the issue.

    Others close to Trump — his presidential campaign manager Bill Stepien, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner — are also missing in action.

    “You were supposed to be watching the baby! No, YOU were! Mooom!”

    Another person whose plans were disrupted:

    Gonna be off twitter for a few weeks

    Huge thanks to all my incredible WaPo colleagues –[many names with tags omitted by me, Mary G to avoid moderation] — for help chasing this crazy story last few months

    [email protected] if you need me

    Be good everybody!
    — Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) December 22, 2020

    So, good vacation that was a very restful 2 weeks did anything happen
    — Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) December 23, 2020

  14. 14.

    PsiFighter37

    Trump creating a massive clusterfuck at the end of the year, motivating our voters in Georgia and reminding them why voting for any Republican is a bad idea. Have to imagine this is going to leave a foul taste in the mouth of the split-ticket white suburban voters in Georgia…and starting to feel bullish on our chances of winning in GA beyond Biden’s margins from 11/3.

  15. 15.

    pamelabrown53

    @Kent:

    Swear to god I happened upon the LR TV, tuned to CNN and the chyron was that tRump did veto the covid/omnibus bill?!

    Hope I’m not disseminating erroneous info.

  16. 16.

    germy

    Hi, folks. Trump didn't veto the #NDAA because of #Confederate base names or #Section230. Those are just convenient excuses that poll well with the rubes. He vetoed it because of its anti-money-laundering provisions. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

    — Lex "Unsorry about Nazis' hurt feefees" Alexander (@LexAlexander) December 23, 2020

  24. 24.

    pamelabrown53

    @germy:

    Interesting. Wonder if he could be a bigger cock-up/disappointment than deBlasio? What are our New Yorkers opinions?

  25. 25.

    germy

    Amazing: Fox Business' @MariaBartiromo mistook an animal rights activist as the CEO of Smithfield — one of the planet's most toxic corporations for public health, environment, labor abuses and treatment of animals — and interviewed him about Smithfield, as CEO, for 6 minutes: pic.twitter.com/JKjU9OFURz— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) December 23, 2020

    “Are the hogs raised in the U.S. and then sent to China to be slaughtered?” was one of her questions.

  27. 27.

    Mary G

    Mr. President, sign the bill to keep government open! Urge McConnell and McCarthy to agree with the Democratic unanimous consent request for $2,000 direct payments! This can be done by noon on Christmas Eve!— Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) December 23, 2020

  30. 30.

    PsiFighter37

    @pamelabrown53: He has zero experience in government, is not as successful as he portrays himself to be. The last thing a city the size and importance of NYC needs is an ‘entrepreneur’ who has only been mildly successful in his career to date.

    NYC is filled with a bunch of mediocre politicians, unfortunately, and none of the names (Eric Adams, Scott Stringer) really impress. I am intrigued by Ray MacGuire, who was a vice chairman at Citigroup until recently. Yes, a big bad bank and so forth, but I honestly think you need someone who has a handle on the many business interests that, to be frank, drive NYC, as well as someone who is not beholden to every last bit of machinery they have worked on the way up the political ladder.

    That said, I have not been paying super-close attention yet, and will wait to see what pans out. There is a big job in rejuvenating the city coming up, and it is telling that people like current Council Speaker Corey Johnson, who is plenty ambitious, passed. Most of these career NYC politicians don’t want to actually do the hard work of making things better; they’d rather be the ones spending money when the times are good. de Blasio has been a unique combination of someone who is terrible no matter the circumstances.

  32. 32.

    Geminid

    @dm: The anti money laundering provisions are in the Corporate Transparency Act, sponsored by Carolyn Maloney and attached to the NDAA earlier this month. It would crack down on the use of shell companies to hide money laundering, among other misdeeds. Someone with a background in this area could explain it better than I.  But I bet trump hates it. The question I have is whether rich crooks like trump will suborn enough republican Congressmen to defeat an override.

  35. 35.

    Brachiator

    @Mary G:

    Meanwhile, aides are being flooded with concerns and questions from GOP lawmakers, many of whom are worried they are going to lose the Senate if Trump continues his behavior, a senior White House official said.

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

  36. 36.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    Andrew Yang has filed paperwork to run for mayor of New York City.

    Not a  New Yorker, but if I were, I would seriously consider voting for him.

  38. 38.

    gene108

    @PsiFighter37:

    I don’t get your logic. Trump just raised the stimulus check from $600 to $2000, and Trump endorsed Loeffler, and Perdue.

    So Loeffler and Perdue are therefore helping me get more money in my pocket.

    I think far too many voters think like this.

  46. 46.

    pamelabrown53

    @PsiFighter37:

    Thanks for the reply. What amazes me is in such a high-powered city that so many mediocre to terrible politicians are elected. Do you think this is because of the in-fighting and ideological disparities among the boroughs?

    It’s hard to make sense of it all!

  47. 47.

    gene108

    @PsiFighter37:

    Yes, a big bad bank and so forth, but I honestly think you need someone who has a handle on the many business interests that, to be frank, drive NYC, as well as someone who is not beholden to every last bit of machinery they have worked on the way up the political ladder.

    My brother lives in NYC. He’s been upset with DeBlasio and how things are being run. He’s never clearly explained it. The last part of your comment succinctly describes what he also feels.

  48. 48.

    PJ

    @pamelabrown53: Who would vote for him, seriously?  He has no base here.  That said, he’ll be one out of a dozen names (or more) running as a Democrat, and, with a built-in media following, six months is a lot of time to make a case.

  49. 49.

    PJ

    @Brachiator: Why?  I mean that seriously.  I only know him from his UBI proposal, which, as mayor, he would have no power to implement, and his general ignorance about how government works.

  54. 54.

    germy

    Everyone realizes this is the part of the Trump story where everyone where everyone goes bankrupt and he makes sure everyone else pays for it, right?
    — LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) December 23, 2020

  56. 56.

    PJ

    @gene108: DeBlasio’s incompetence has little do with machine politics, which, frankly, have not much influence citywide and not that much weight at a borough level either (you wouldn’t see the DSA victories if it did).  After his first year, DeBlasio just has not been interested in the job.

  57. 57.

    germy

    Everything Trump does is transactional, including his pardons. You should ask why he is pardoning so many war criminal mercenaries as he continues to attempt a coup and shake up the DOD. Ask what he's expecting in return, not just from the pardoned but from others like them.

    — Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) December 23, 2020

  61. 61.

    randy khan

    @dmsilev: 

    Ironically, deleting Section 230 would ensure that Trump’s Twitter account would be nuked from orbit within about 5 nanoseconds. That section gives Internet platforms fairly broad safety-from-lawsuits protections from things that people post onto those platforms. Make Twitter legally liable for any one of Trump’s tirades? Yeah, they’re not going to take that risk.

    It’s pretty strange that he (and a lot of Republicans) believe that Section 230 lets social media censor them unfairly when in fact they likely would be censored much, much more without it. This is something I’ve been involved with literally for decades, and the utter lack of understanding that Republicans have of it is mind-boggling, particularly because it’s in legislation that was passed by a Republican-controlled Congress. (The Dems aren’t great on it, either, but they have a much better grasp of what it does and doesn’t do, and they seem more inclined to think that the best tool is a scalpel, not an ax.)

  64. 64.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @PsiFighter37: I can wrap my head around the appeal of a lot of politicians I don’t like, from Bernie! to trump, but the Yang phenomenon just baffles me.

  67. 67.

    randy khan

    @Lex:

    I think he genuinely wants to gut Section 230, even though he doesn’t understand it at all.  He really, truly believes that he is being unfairly censored by Twitter and Facebook (showing that he doesn’t actually know what censorship is, by the way) and that Section 230 is the reason.  It’s important enough to him that when a Republican FCC commissioner who he’d nominated for a new term said that he thought the Administration’s position was wrong and that he wouldn’t support adopting rules to change the interpretation of Section 230, Trump pulled the guy’s nomination and replaced him with someone who was totally on board with the idea.  (It looks like it still isn’t going anywhere, though, which may be why he struck on the idea of jamming it into the NDAA.)

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    @Lex:

     

    Trump is pissed about the anti-money-laundering provisions in the NDAA because money laundering is how he makes his money now and has been for some time.

     

    Yep yep yep

  72. 72.

    Cameron

    @randy khan: I suspect that “Section 230” means as much to Trump as “Area 51.”  He’s heard that it’s important, but he’s too stupid and ignorant to figure out what it is.

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    @PJ:

    Why? I mean that seriously. I only know him from his UBI proposal, which, as mayor, he would have no power to implement, and his general ignorance about how government works.

    I liked his UBI proposal and his optimism. But he would have to make a case for himself, and this would not be easy. But I would not simply dismiss him out of hand.

  77. 77.

    jonas

    People are overthinking this. Trump just wants the $2000 checks because he wants his big stupid signature to go out on a larger check. That’s it.

  78. 78.

    Chyron HR

    Now that Donald the Dove has stopped the Democrat’s Forever War, he’s a shoe-in for the Green Party nomination in 2024.

  80. 80.

    J R in WV

    @germy:

    You should ask why he is pardoning so many war criminal mercenaries as he continues to attempt a coup and shake up the DOD. Ask what he’s expecting in return, not just from the pardoned but from others like them.

    — Sarah Kendzior

    This!!!

    What would Trump expect from war criminal mercenaries in return for pardons of convicted murders of innocent civilians at a traffic stop in Iraq?!?!!?!????

    Why, he would expect those killers to kill people right there in Washington DC for Trump’s “reelection” effort, wouldn’t he?!!?

  82. 82.

    Mike in NC

    Trump will go down in history as the 2nd and Last President of the Confederate States of America. He will erect a gold-plated statue of himself at Mar-A-Lardass.

  86. 86.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @germy: I have to admit, that surprises me. FreedomWorks is a Koch-funded outfit that was run by Dick Armey, right? There’s a name that hasn’t crossed my mind in a while.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: Eh?  More words, please.

    My understanding is:

    1. The framers didn’t want a standing army (wanted salt-of-the-earth and yeoman-farmer militias instead).
    2. Originally, Congress had to approve every single expenditure of the federal government.  Then, they saw that was insane and gave broad funding numbers to the various departments and made them responsible for spending it correctly.
    3. Congress cannot bind future congresses, so if Biden’s first congress wants to fund Make America Carbon Neutral for the next 20 years it can do so, but Kamala’s first congress can change it.  So, there are annual funding/budget bills (because the House cannot and will not give up the power of the purse).  (It’s one reason why the “10 year budget projections” for gigantic tax cuts are worse than useless.)

    Corrections welcome.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  91. 91.

    Cameron

    @Brachiator: I like rich idealists (and, yes, I think there are such creatures), but they always expect to be able to jump off the bench and have the QB toss them the winning touchdown.  Lived most of my adult life in a large NE city, but the last four years living here in FL have got me thinking that Gulf Coast Fl is a good place for Yang types to jump into it.  There are a number of small cities that need mayors, counties that need commissioners, lots of contact with state offices, all these various entities work (or should work) together….you could learn a hell of a lot about state government (and prep for national) in a few years here.  HOWEVER….I’d really like the opinions of life-time or long-term Floridians such as Ms. Cracker on this.  Thanks.

  94. 94.

    Dan B

    @pamelabrown53: It would be good for Perdue’s tweet to be in Georgia media where the audience understands hypocrisy.  Otherwise  it needs to be explained how partisan his tweet is.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @Another Scott:

    Military funding is special.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 12:
    [The Congress shall have Power . . .] To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; . . .

    So maybe just the army.  I don’t know.

  97. 97.

    Cameron

    @Omnes Omnibus: Suspect Michael Flynn would be in for a very serious and unpleasant surprise if he tried to push this shit much further.  I don’t know doodly-squat about the military, but can’t he be called back into service and court-martialed….say, 1/22/21?

  98. 98.

    FelonyGovt

    This guy really has raised being a petty, spiteful asshole to an art form. He is the Michelangelo of petty, spiteful assholes.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    Everything Trump does is transactional, including his pardons. You should ask why he is pardoning so many war criminal mercenaries as he continues to attempt a coup and shake up the DOD. Ask what he’s expecting in return, not just from the pardoned but from others like them.

    I thought it was weird how quickly Flynn showed up at Trump’s side. Does he have any official position?

    But none of these people can do much for Trump as president.  They have no particular influence with anyone. They are just a collection of loose nuts.

    This is a fairly pathetic, ragged show.  The GOP leadership should have pulled the plug on this nonsense long ago by voting to remove him from office.

  101. 101.

    germy

    @Omnes Omnibus:  Kendzior is way over her skis on this.

    I think she’s questioning his intentions.  She’s asking what’s motivating him.  That’s my impression.   I didn’t read her as saying “There’s going to be a successful coup” but rather “Why is Trump doing this?”

  104. 104.

    germy

    @Brachiator:  This is a fairly pathetic, ragged show.  The GOP leadership should have pulled the plug on this nonsense long ago by voting to remove him from office.

    I agree, it is pathetic and ragged.  But I would have been surprised to see the GOP turn against him.  They tried during the Republican primaries and saw what he did to their “best and brightest” candidates.

  105. 105.

    J R in WV

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    There will not be a coup.

    I agree. And if he tries one with a bunch of free-lance mercenaries, the actual real military will actually stop the insurrection.

    I didn’t mean to even imply there would be a coup attempt, merely that Trump’s motive for pardoning those murderers must have been related to his desire for a coup. Those particular guys won’t even be available for work on Trump’s coup, they’ll just now be getting out of jail…

    Now they’re calling for snow tonight and tomorrow. Would be the first white Christmas in many years now. I had hoped to do some grocery shopping and pick up the mail at the P.O. tomorrow… maybe not now. We have adequate food stuffs and spirits in hand, so maybe wait ’til the 26th…

  107. 107.

    Brachiator

    @FelonyGovt:

    This guy really has raised being a petty, spiteful asshole to an art form. He is the Michelangelo of petty, spiteful assholes.

    Hey. No fair insulting the Ninja Turtles.

  108. 108.

    cain

    This development is absolutely bat shit – on the other hand, because it is a cult of name – the Republicans are now stuck having to override his veto and that’s going to get the cultist quite upset. Even OAN and Fox News are going to have to take the side of Trump in this – which is going to get really wierd.

    Fucking McConnell deserves every bit of this. Meanwhile Nancy SMASH is probably fucking having the biggest bit of the giggles in quite awhile.

  110. 110.

    Mike in NC

    I read that Fat Bastard has several other farewell middle fingers to offer Americans, including huge cuts to SNAP (AKA Food Stamps) and school lunch programs.

  113. 113.

    germy

    @cain:

    And Lindsey Graham saw it all coming!

    Remember, years ago when he warned the GOP would be destroyed if it embraced Trump?

    If only, if only they’d nominated Jeb!   They’d have gotten their tax cuts, their judges… without all this madness.

  115. 115.

    CaseyL

    I am not at all sure “Trump” and “thinks” should be used together.

    Trump doesn’t cogitate; he has tropic responses, like cockroaches exposed to light.

  117. 117.

    zhena gogolia

    @J R in WV:

    J-L. Cauvin summed it up best. Look under the tree Christmas morning. If you’re a white scumbag, there just might be a pardon there for you.

  124. 124.

    germy

    @zhena gogolia:

    Would have been nice.

    I saw what Biden had to say to the beltway press.  She was the best candidate in American history, and they refused to cover her ideas.

  127. 127.

    Mary G

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Deleted Granger tweet bc person on call misheard and Foxx was person who talked. Here was what was said: “I don’t know if we recover from this. We will have a hell of a time getting this out of peoples head.”— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) December 23, 2020

    Merry Christmas!

  128. 128.

    Brachiator

    @Cameron:

    I like rich idealists (and, yes, I think there are such creatures), but they always expect to be able to jump off the bench and have the QB toss them the winning touchdown.

    Richard Riordan was a mixed bag as Los Angeles mayor. He was a wealthy businessman and longtime political insider, and had often  backed Democrats, but ran as a Republican. A lot of his proposals were blocked by the city council, and he made some bonehead blunders. But he had some good ideas, was not a corrupt or bumbling administrator, and got re-elected. Granted his opponent was state senator Tom Hayden.

  130. 130.

    evap

    @Mike in NC:  If Trump can cut SNAP and school lunches, does that mean that Biden can reverse this and even increase them when he is sworn in?    This is a serious question, I’m curious if the president can do this.

  133. 133.

    PAM Dirac

    @randy khan: There are a lot of people who think that trashing Section 230 would rein in Facebook, Google and other big tech. In fact, it would practically guarantee their dominance. Who else has the resources to deal with all the legal battles? One overview that might be worth reading.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    @Emma from FL:

    So 4 mercenaries are going to go and fight it out with the DC police?

    No.  The idea is that the rest of the mercenaries will feel like they can murder without compunction because they know Trump will pardon them.  There are just two problems with that:

    1. Trump can only pardon for federal offenses.
    2. He has to stay president for this to work.
  144. 144.

    Hellbastard

    Really wish these aspiring outsiders with a newfound urge for public service would look for a good small or medium-sized city to govern before they run for president or mayor of the country’s biggest city.

  145. 145.

    randy khan

    @PAM Dirac:

    EFF is a big supporter of Section 230, and has been from the beginning.  I’ve said this before and elsewhere, but it’s important to understand that the vast majority of the Internet is made better by Section 230.  The problems are concentrated in a few very important platforms, but it’s not even all social media – nobody complains about Pinterest, SnapChat, TikTok, or Instagram (though it’s owned by Facebook).  Meanwhile, places like this blog, nearly every retail site, etc., depend on Section 230 to stay in business.

    In fact, it’s telling that Parler, of all places, has argued that we shouldn’t mess with Section 230, despite the otherwise perfect record of loyalty to Trump you find there.

  151. 151.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: I just googled, and it looks like a real thing, or was at least based on a real thing.  The kid wrote to Trump, and Sanders arranged for him to mow.  When the Dumpster wanted to talk to the kid, he just kept mowing.

    I googled “trump lawn mower kid meme and several stories came up from 2017.

  157. 157.

    zhena gogolia

    @WaterGirl:

    Boy, you learn something new every day. I have seen 1000 memes on that, and I always assumed it was photoshop!

    We have to get these crazy mofos out of there. Why did they let a kid mow the White House lawn???

  164. 164.

    Lex

    @Brachiator: Not in a million years. Businessmen make lousy politicians because they think government can be run like a business when government isn’t a business and can’t be run like one.

  167. 167.

    Kattails

    @Cameron: Can he be called back and court-martialed: Since I’ve seen General Hayden recommend it, I presume yes.

    BTW Stonekettle was livid about the Blackwater pardons.  More stuff further along in his feed, including a  link to a longer thread by a lawyer who represented the plaintiffs against Blackwater.  the whole story is absolutely disgusting.

  168. 168.

    Lex

    @J R in WV: He’s pardoning four Blackwater mercs. Blackwater is owned by outgoing Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos’s brother, Erik Prince. He gets Prince and Blackwater’s loyalty. ‘Nuff said.

  171. 171.

    J R in WV

    @Hellbastard:

    Really wish these aspiring outsiders with a newfound urge for public service would look for a good small or medium-sized city to govern before they run for president or mayor of the country’s biggest city.

    Like, maybe South Bend, IN? Just sayin’… It appears to be working out OK for Pete. I’ve come around to thinking he’s a very bright guy, and a very, very good communicator, even thinking fast on his feet. Not everyone can do that as well as he can. I’m impressed with his ability to do a good job on Faux News, even.

    And now I see that Baud beat me to it by 7 yards:

    llbastard:

    I hear South Bend, Indiana is a good stepping stone.

  172. 172.

    Kattails

    Extremely disconcerting thread up on Bill Kristol’s twitter feed including a link to this:  The phone number for a GI hotline “if you are National Guard or Active Duty military and you are being ordered to violate the Constitutional rights of US citizens…” JHC

    The original thread based on the question of why they settled on Dec. 23 as Barr’s departure time?  There’s been a fair bit of speculation here and elsewhere as to why this was even happening, and what line was Barr being asked to cross; so that speculation is still active, for reasons.

  173. 173.

    Kattails

    @Cameron: Jim Wright was a decorated for saving Iraqi citizens’ lives.  He links to the lawyer’s thread, the guy who brought suit in US court against our mercenaries, and won.  Worth a read. I assume you’re sarcastically referring back to Trump’s pardons.

    I gotta go get my sister’s Xmas present done darn it no more politics tonight and yes X-mas is referring back to the Greek abbreviation for Christos so perfectly correct just wanted to toss that in. Pedants will already be aware. I’m going to go watch the Ode to Joy flashmob again. Maybe a splash more wine? or tea…

  174. 174.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @J R in WV:

    Trump’s motive for pardoning those murderers must have been related to his desire for a coup.

    Good grief, folks.  Trump’s motive is the same as his motive for pardoning the two border guards who shot an immigrant and the same as his motive for pardoning Arpaio and that war criminal SEAL.  Trump is a fucking Nazi and it galls him to ever see murdering brown people punished.

  176. 176.

    satby

    Can I say I told you so about Pete now?

    You all threw away the chance to have him come here for a Q and A back two years ago when I asked his chief of staff to check out the blog and let me know if he’d be interested, just in time for some real ass-showing about his candidacy.

  178. 178.

    satby

    Nope, not to you! Since it’s still Festivus, I just thought I’d get in my own  “I gotta lot a problems with you people”

  181. 181.

    There are those who call me...tim... (Still posh)

    Still trying to appear relevant, a shaker-upper, a force to reckon with. Still a loser on his way out. Still, mere dollar figures mean no more to him, unless he’s receiving them, than do things like normal human emotions. Still, sure, I’ll accept 2 grand, who wouldn’t? A very gracious parting gesture. Now get to parting, loser.

  182. 182.

    Gvg

    @satby: I still don’t think he has enough big government experience for the Presidency. I am not in the mood for inexperienced.

    He is good at some required things and has a good future but I still think he was too ahead of his abilities, and in this time of crisis, that made me angry. It is an anger that comes from panic, like what if this inexperienced charismatic guy actually got the nomination?

    So as a Democrat who isn’t the party nominee, I like him fine. At this time in his life though, I still don’t want him anywhere near a nomination to that job. He will have some years to build experience and show us all what he can do and learn more about national government, and we’ll see in the future.

    Biden is a well known straight white politician and won but didn’t get a blowout. I don’t think Pete would have won. I fear that scenario. So what was wrong with us mostly not supporting him for the Presidency?

  183. 183.

    satby

    @Gvg: ok, you probably won’t see this, but the problem as I saw it wasn’t “not supporting him for the presidency”. It was the hostile, dismissive, occasionally  often homophobic commentary on the man without even a cursory evaluation of his positions on things; to the point of calling him a RINO. He was running to raise his profile and to demonstrate his skills, I don’t think even he expected to win the presidency itself. Hence the early drop of his bid and endorsement of Biden.

    We had a chance to have an early interaction with one of the potential rising young stars of the Democrats party at a time where he was trying to raise his profile and would have happily done a Q&A with this blog. Scuttled by his chief of staff probably reading some of the ugly shit posted about him after I asked her to take a look at it. It was humiliating to have suggested it to her.

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