Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Bark louder, little dog.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

“But what about the lurkers?”

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread – Volcanic Eruption In Real Time

Open Thread – Volcanic Eruption In Real Time

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Iceland has had a series of earthquakes over the past few weeks, so geophysicists knew an eruption was likely. And this week it happened.

You can see a group of people at the lava tongue at center right. They are archaeologists trying to get what they can from a pre-Christian site before the lava covers it.

You can also watch the eruption in real time and wind it back up to five hours.

Reader Interactions

73Comments

  3. 3.

    Elma

    Watching in on the big screen right now. Night in Iceland, very dramatic. The sound is also very coo.

  4. 4.

    craigie

    And you can play it back at twice the speed, in case nature is too slow for your Marvel-addled brain.

  5. 5.

    Another Scott

    It looks much more dramatic as the sun goes down – I assume that’s a consequence of the light sensitivity of the camera and it trying to get the exposure right.

    Neat stuff.  Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  6. 6.

    Brachiator

    If it’s Iceland, why is it so hot?

    I understand that this eruption is not expected to spew enough smoke upwards to cause problems to aircraft, which has happened before.

  10. 10.

    rikyrah

    In the Morning Open Thread, I told of my crock pot pork roast, covered in a salsa/ peanut butter combination sauce.

     

    Well…

    the tacos turned out terrific??

    Onion, cilantro, avocado and lime .???

  12. 12.

    Ken

    I dunno why those archaeologists ran away.  I’ve seen any number of volcano movies and you can get within a couple of feet of a lava flow before you have any problems. In an emergency you can even run across it, if you stick to the darker bits.

  13. 13.

    Brachiator

    @Another Scott:

    As I understand it, for the same reason that Greenland is.

    I thought that was some early Viking false advertising. “Come to Greenland! It’s mild and pleasant.”

  14. 14.

    Another Scott

    @Brachiator: Bingo.

    “Don’t go to Iceland – it’s horrible.  Go to Greenland!  Or Vinland!!  It’s great there!!!1”

    TFG might have Viking Realtor blood.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  15. 15.

    Yutsano

    @Another Scott: ​ Leif Erikson himself, according to legend. He for some reason really wanted his people to inhabit Greenland over Iceland. I’ll have to look it up after I get some calories in me.

    EDIT: boku wa baka da yo ne. Corrected the spelling so as not to libel him with another Erick in the world.

  16. 16.

    Ken

    BTW there’s an entire Wikipedia page answering Kent’s probably-rhetorical question. Short version, it got a double dose of volcanism: mid-ocean spreading center and mantle hotspot.

  17. 17.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Yutsano: As I read it some years ago, when Ericsson brought over his colony, Greenland had some decent-sized green spots.  It was a bit of a warm period for that part of the globe.  But then it got really damn cold, and welp.

  18. 18.

    Brachiator

    @Yutsano:

    BTW, the extension of the federal tax filing deadline to May 17 is already giving me headaches. It has got to be hell for IRS employees this season.

    And the unemployment exclusion, while good, is causing tax prep software nightmares.

  19. 19.

    Jay

    @Yutsano:

    Leif got kicked out of Iceland several times for picking fights and    resisting the authorities.

    He wanted to be a Chief.

  20. 20.

    Jay

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Worse for Iceland was the discovery of Africa and the Silk Road.

    Walrus and Narwhale “ivory”, was supplanted with real ivory, killing off Icelandic exports, which left them unable to import necessities like Iron. They went back to bog iron and recycling nails. This also resulted in a loss of technological weapon superiority over the Innu, with whom  they had picked fights with, from  day 1.

  22. 22.

    MagdaInBlack

    This post made me go look up Surtsey, which fascinated me as a kid.  (still does)

    OT: outside in the common greenspace, I see a family testing their new little drone helicopter thingy, and a little girl in a fuzzy jacket, pink tutu and sparkly shoes, chasing the bubbles mom is making with one of those BIG bubble jars.

    Signs of normalcy ❤️

  24. 24.

    Doc Sardonic

    @MagdaInBlack: It is good to see signs of normalcy, unfortunately, in my little corner of the world our town had it’s arts & crafts weekend live and in person. Judging from today’s crowd shots our little slice of normal is likely going to be just another super spreader event amongst the hundreds occurring on a daily basis here in Florida.

  25. 25.

    randy khan

    People often are surprised at how fast lava can move, sometimes to their great detriment.

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Yutsano: Though the name “Iceland” itself has nothing to do with ice; it’s just another form of the word “Island”.

  31. 31.

    debbie

    @MagdaInBlack:

    My apartment is next to a church. The window by my desk looks out over the back parking lot. All kinds of stuff going on back there: Parents teaching kids how to ride bikes, some sort of interval training, etc. I feel like I am witnessing a Wiseman documentary.

  33. 33.

    SiubhanDuinne

    What knocks me out is that this is the first time this volcano has erupted in some six thousand years. Yup, it’s been dormant since c. 4000 BCE.

    That just blows my mind.

  37. 37.

    rikyrah

    ????

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” Cruz claimed in audio obtained by AP, and Republicans must stop themHe said if election legislation before the Senate passes, the GOP won’t win again for generations https://t.co/xrfongf37n— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) March 20, 2021

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” Cruz claimed in audio obtained by AP, and Republicans must stop them He said if election legislation before the Senate passes, the GOP won’t win again for generations

    Muthafucking lying muthafuckas…

    Cruz and all his Republican buddies

  41. 41.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Tony Jay: When two Vikings love each other very much…..

    … they look about how they look if they hate each other.

    We visited a Viking museum in Aalborg, northern Denmark. They had these big murals on the walls of Viking daily life. And my overwhelming impression was that Vikings were pretty much miserable all the time no matter what they were doing.

  43. 43.

    MomSense

    @sab:

    My friends are about 30 miles away in Reykjavik.  So far they are being asked to shelter in place and to keep windows and doors closed.

  44. 44.

    cain

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    We visited a Viking museum in Aalborg, northern Denmark. They had these big murals on the walls of Viking daily life. And my overwhelming impression was that Vikings were pretty much miserable all the time no matter what they were doing.

    Probably why they take off and take their frustrations on the inhabitants of other places like Ireland. They really are assholes though.

  45. 45.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Tony Jay:

    It was the morning after the great feast & orgy in Valhalla, and the festive participants were sprawled insensate about the great hall.

    The God of Thunder lifted his head on one elbow & shook it slightly to clear out the cobwebs. Looking up, he saw a statuesque blonde standing in one of the arches. He flinched at the thought of another fling so early in the morning. But I’m a god, he told himself, and I’ve got a reputation as a ladies’ man to uphold. So he raised up to a sitting position and said, Hi there. I’m Thor.

    You think you’re Thor? she replied. I’m tho thor I can’t even pith.

    /rimshot

  46. 46.

    Gravenstone

    @Brachiator: Well, Republicans have been using scare tactics to mobilize their base for over half a century now. So this should in no way be surprising. But he’s not wrong that if we can pass substantive voter rights legislation, the Republican party as currently engendered is doomed.

  47. 47.

    The Moar You Know

    Those are some brave scientists.  Volcanos emit all sorts of incredibly toxic gases.

  48. 48.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @rikyrah: ​And so long as the GOP’s entire program is bigotry, misogyny, violence, and fascism, it damn well won’t deserve to win again for centuries.​

    Fled CanCruz needs to fuck right off, yesterday if possible.

  49. 49.

    Ken

    @Uncle Cosmo: Neil Gaiman used that in one of the Sandman stories, where Odin and Thor were visiting the Sandman. Thor was telling the joke, and the illustrator managed to give Odin a perfect “Oh, not again” look.

  50. 50.

    ljdramone

    @sab: Southwestern Iceland. It’s on the Reykjanes peninsula, about 25 miles SW of Reykjavik and 5 miles NE of the coastal fishing town of Grindavik.

  52. 52.

    Mike in NC

    I laughed at the story yesterday about the wax museum in Texas that had to remove the dummy Donald Trump because people kept punching it in the face. I’m imaging if there was a wax dummy of Ted Cruz someplace that you could charge people to punch in the face. $$$

  53. 53.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @sab:

    The volcano Fagradalsfjall is near the west-southwest “corner”of Iceland, about 30-35 miles southwest of Reykjavik.

  56. 56.

    SFBayAreaGal

    I just got back from Pigeon Point Lighthouse, a beautiful windy day on the coast. I then get to see live what is happening in Iceland. Technology and Mother Nature a beautiful combination. Thank you Cheryl.

  57. 57.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    And my overwhelming impression was that Vikings were pretty much miserable all the time no matter what they were doing.

    You owe it to yourself to read Ibn Fadlān’s account of his encounters with the Vikings. Arab trader from Baghdad ended up going up the Volga in 922.

  58. 58.

    Yutsano

    @Brachiator: ​ Well let’s see. Martinsburg needs to do a massive reprogramming in the middle of filling season. Phone reps (and by extension us in the local offices) will have next to no guidance on any of this when the questions immediately hit (as they will) come Monday. And people who may benefit from this will have no idea when or how this will all work or when they might receive their increased refunds.

    *breathes in and out slowly*

    Have I ever mentioned how much I fucking LOVE unfunded mandates?

  59. 59.

    Gin & Tonic

    To add, from Ibn Fadlān’s account:

    I noticed that the people of that land consider the howling of dogs as a great blessing and they rejoice on hearing it, saying: “A year of plenty, blessings and peace!”

    They couldn’t be bad people if they liked dogs, right?

  61. 61.

    Another Scott

    @Mike in NC: Yup.

    JuanitaJean has a picture of him with Vlad and Kim. It doesn’t look like him at all to me…

    Rafael and Cornyn and Abbott and Paxton would probably bring in lots of cash if they let people punch them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  63. 63.

    Lapassionara

    @rikyrah: Thank you for the report on the peanut butter and salsa pork roast. I’m glad it was good. I will need to try this someday.

    Did you have corn or flour tortillas?

  64. 64.

    Geminid

    I am starting to root for volcanos. Their ash plumes distribute minerals to ocean plankton. Besides feeding marine animals up the food chain to fish, plankton seem to consume CO2 and to some extent sequester it. The huge eruption of Mt. Pinautubo in 1991was precursor to a temporary pause in atmospheric CO2 increases, although at the time oceanic monitoring was such that no cause and effect could be proven. At least, fishermen might get some extra mackerel and cod out of this eruption

  65. 65.

    Another Scott

    @Geminid: Eh?  I don’t think that’s right.  Volcanoes don’t have much effect on CO2.

    https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=50

    They do have a cooling effect because of their ash clouds, SO2, etc. AUGPubs:

    [8] Huge masses of volcanic ash and gas, mixed with hydrometeors, were directly emitted into the stratosphere by Pinatubo and this resulted in global environmental, atmospheric, and climatic effects for up to several years. The most significant atmospheric effects included: (1) Large stratospheric sulfate aerosol loading with chemical and dynamic perturbations affecting stratospheric NO2, reactive chlorine, and ozone concentrations and increasing stratospheric opacity [McCormick et al., 1995]; (2) Cooling effects in the troposphere (more solar radiation scattering back to space) and warming effects in the stratosphere (infrared absorptivity of stratospheric aerosols) [McCormick et al., 1995]. Summer surface cooling (average −3°C) and winter surface warming (average +3°C) were found in the northern hemisphere 1–2 years after eruption [Robock, 2002]; (3) Destruction of stratospheric ozone after the eruption due to both heterogeneous reactions occurring on the surface of sulfate aerosol (similar to heterogeneous reactions that occur within polar stratospheric clouds responsible for the Antarctic Ozone Hole [Solomon et al., 1993]), and circulation changes after the eruption [Kinne et al., 1992]; and (4) Climatic effects worldwide which lasted for up to several years after eruption [Robock, 2002].

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  66. 66.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: The article you reference does not address the question of ocean fertilzation that I was referring to. The Smithsonian had an interesting article on the topic January of this year. Its particular focus is on geologist looking for evidence that volcano eruptions may have affected climate in the past. But it gives a good overview of the question of ocean fertilization. If you are interested.

     A lot of research has been done in this field, easily found by googling ocean fertilization. It is a controversial area, and a 2008 U.N. decision has banned commercial ocean fertilization, and rules for research are still being worked out.

  67. 67.

    Another Scott

    @Geminid: I’m familiar with the iron fertilization studies.  I’m no expert, but I don’t believe that Pinatubo contributed to that effect in a meaningful way.

    The drop in the increase in CO2 was probably due to something different than ocean fertilization.

    E.g. A counterpoint – AGUPubs:

    Abstract

    [1] In summer and autumn 2010, a highly anomalous phytoplankton bloom, with chlorophyll concentration more than double that of previous years, was observed in the Irminger Basin, southwest of Iceland. Two unusual events occurred during 2010 which had the potential to promote the unusual bloom. First, in spring 2010, the Eyjafjallajökull volcano in Iceland erupted, depositing large quantities of tephra into the subpolar North Atlantic. Second, during the winter of 2009/2010 the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) became extremely negative, developing into the second strongest negative NAO on record. Hydrographic conditions were highly anomalous in the region, with an influx of freshwater spreading through the basin, and unusual nutrient and mixed layer depth conditions. Here we use a combination of satellite, modeled and in situ data to investigate whether the input of iron from the volcanic eruption or change in hydrographic conditions due to the extreme negative NAO were responsible for the anomalous phytoplankton bloom. We conclude that changes in physical forcing driven by the NAO, and not the volcanic eruption, stimulated the unusual bloom.

    (Emphasis added.)

    My bias is to be skeptical of “easy” solutions to CO2 like dumping iron in the oceans. ;-) It has an effect, but it’s short-lived (the ash falls out of the water too quickly, and much of the iron is in a form that cannot be metabolized if it’s like that described in the paper above).

    So what did cause the drop in the rate of increase in CO2 in the early ’90s? It looks like that corresponds to a drop the rate of change in US emissions in 1990-1991 (Figure 2) – stable at 5 GT/yr rather than increasing.

    YMMV.

    Thanks. Interesting topic.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  68. 68.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: At a Woods Hole conference in1990, marine biologist John Martin said, give me a tanker of iron and I’ll give you the next Ice Age.* He was in part jesting, in part serious. Later, in 2007, the Woods Hole facility hosted a conference on the topic. The 2009 German-Indian LOHAFEX experiment showed significant uptake of CO2 by plankton when iron sulfate was released into an a southern  ocean eddy.  But very little research has been done since.

    That is not neccessarily because ocean fertilization would not work. If it did work, there would be the danger that it could be an excuse not to eliminate the use of fossil fuels. So I am agnostic on human induced ocean fertilization. And that’s why I root for volcanoes.

    *Martin had researched the question, why was life in the southern ocean particularly sparse. He concluded that this was due to the scarcity of iron, a critical nutrient for plankton. In the northern oceans, there are more minerals delivered to the oceans by rivers and wind. Iron in dust from Saharan windstorms is a good source of iron in the North Atlantic. These iron sources are not present in the Southern ocean, which is where Martin proposed to send his hythetical ship full of iron.

  69. 69.

    Another Scott

    @Geminid:

    EuropeanScientist (from 2020):

    […]

    The researchers used computer simulations to study the interactions between phytoplankton, iron, and other nutrients in the ocean – and at the same time, the ocean’s capacity to store CO2, and discovered that finely-tuned interactions lead to a delicate balance of nutrients in the ocean.

    This ‘reinforcing cycle’ locally matches the availability of iron and other nutrients in the ocean and the required stocks of dissolved iron are maintained by association with the ligands produced by biological processes.

    Simply put, the world’s oceans seem to have just the right amount of ligands, which maintain the right amount of available iron to maximize the growth of phytoplankton, that optimally consume macronutrients – which creates a “self-reinforcing and self-sustainable balance of resources”.

    And this is true, even when huge regional differences in iron content exist: for example, some oceans, like the North Atlantic, are high in iron because they are close to dusty continents, but low in macronutrients; whereas, the Southern Ocean has a relatively high concentration of macronutrients but low iron content.

    “According to our framework, iron fertilization cannot have a significant overall effect on the amount of carbon in the ocean because the total amount of iron that microbes need is already just right,” Lauderdale said. Plus, introducing more iron could have unintended effects, he added: “We have to consider the whole ocean as this interconnected system”.

    “Something like 75 per cent of production north of the Southern Ocean is fueled by nutrients from the Southern Ocean, and the northern oceans are where most fisheries are and where many ecosystem benefits for people occur. Before we dump loads of iron and drawdown nutrients in the Southern Ocean, we should consider unintended consequences downstream that potentially make the environmental situation a lot worse”.

    Another recent study showed that, up to now, the percentage of CO2 uptake by oceans is stable. In other words, the more CO2 humans produce, the more the oceans absorb. But at some point, will the oceans become saturated?

    Moreover, differences in CO2 uptake among regions were also documented, suggesting complex feedback systems, just like the one described by Lauderdale and colleagues, are likely at play. So, instead of finding ways to bandage the existing problem with complex geoengineering solutions, such as iron fertilisation, the most logical solution seems to be reducing CO2 emissions.

    (1) Lauderdale, J.M. et al. Microbial feedbacks optimize ocean iron availability. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2020). DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1917277117

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  70. 70.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Another Scott: I have made clear that I am not advocating ocean fertilization, for one of the reasons your authorities cite: the moral hazard of encouraging more fossil fuel use.

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @Geminid:  Sorry that we seem to be talking past each other. I understand that you are not advocating ocean fertilization with iron. The point I’m trying to make is 1) that volcanoes won’t work to cut CO2 (and generally they do bad things to the present atmosphere), and 2) if volcanoes were a big source of iron that plankton liked (and they don’t seem to be) dumping iron in the oceans won’t somehow easily fix the CO2 imbalance caused by anthropogenic emissions.

    Last link – https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2016/05/16/iron-fertilization-wont-work-in-equatorial-pacific-study-suggests/

    Over the past half-million years, the equatorial Pacific Ocean has seen five spikes in the amount of iron-laden dust blown in from the continents. In theory, those bursts should have turbo-charged the growth of the ocean’s carbon-capturing algae­ – algae need iron to grow – but a new study shows that the excess iron had little to no effect.

    Of course, there’s never a final word in science, but it doesn’t look good for ocean fertilization.

    That’s all from me.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: I suggest you read an article published June 3 2020 in Physics.org, titled “Ocean Uptake of Carbon Dioxide Will Drop as Carbon Emissions Decline.” The author reviews a study authored by Galen McKinley, published in AGU Advances. McKinley is a carbon cycle scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. She and her coauthors definitely saw an effect of volcanic eruptions on the ocean’s carbon level:

    “One of the key findings of this work is that the climate effects of volcanic eruptions such as that of Mt. Pinatubo can play important roles in driving the variability of the ocean carbon sink,” said coauthor Yassir Eddebbar, a post-doctoral scholar at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography.

    Wrote the Physics.Org reviewer, “the researchers found that Pinatubo’s emissions caused the oceans to take up more carbon in 1992 and 1993.”

  73. 73.

    H-Bob

    @Mike in NC: I read that in WWI, the Hapsburg Empire would raise funds in smaller villages by making wooden statutes of an enemy soldier and then villagers could pay to hammer nails into the statues. I thought it would make a good fundraiser for the Democratic Party as a lot of Trump haters would love to pound spikes into him!

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