Q: Mr. President, is this unfair to people who paid their student loans or chose not to take out loans?
BIDEN: Is it fair to people who in fact do not own multi-billion dollar businesses to see one of these guys getting all of the tax breaks? Is that fair? What do you think?
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 24, 2022
and that’s in spite of every single corporate backed TV channel, economist, and pundit losing their mind.
Still popular in spite of it, and only going to get more popular as the impact hits/people understand the relief. Good stuff! #1u https://t.co/LqoyFrJpAY
— Carlos "Solidarity 22" Jimenez // Pass the #PROAct (@carlosinhp) August 31, 2022
Die mad about it:
“I feel like we’ve reached the Joker phase of the Biden presidency. All we’re lacking now is the face paint and the purple suit. He’s riding a parade float down Pennsylvania Avenue just tossing money” pic.twitter.com/K4xeOOjmjB
— Acyn (@Acyn) August 28, 2022
I do not think that word "split" means what you think it means: overwhelming support for doing at least as much as Biden has https://t.co/ZwV2BxdhJD pic.twitter.com/8xren72FwC
— Paul Krugman (@paulkrugman) August 28, 2022
Why Student Debt Isn’t Elitist:
… Let’s talk about the numbers. The Biden administration says that its plan will provide relief to as many as 43 million Americans. That’s a lot of people, not a small, cosseted elite. In particular, data from the New York Fed say that more than 12 million Americans in their 30s — more than a quarter of that age group — still have unpaid student debt.
What this means is that even if you subscribe to the Trump diner theory of politics — according to which the only voters who matter are blue-collar guys wearing baseball caps — you should be aware that some of those guys probably took out loans to attend trade schools or community colleges, all too often getting nothing but debt in return. Even among those who didn’t take out student loans, many probably have children, siblings, cousins or friends who did. So the Biden plan will touch many people.
In short, student debt relief isn’t some kind of niche elite concern; it’s a broad, one might even say populist, issue. Initial polling on the Biden plan is somewhat mixed, with an Emerson College survey showing much stronger support than a CBS/YouGov survey. Even the latter survey, however, finds a majority of Americans approving of the plan; it even finds much less opposition among noncollege whites than you might have expected given that group’s general disapproval of all things Biden.
The other prong of the right-wing response involves invoking personal responsibility — in effect, portraying the recipients of debt relief as welfare queens. Republican efforts on that front have, however, been extraordinarily tone-deaf.
Just on general political principles, telling tens of millions of Americans that they’re lazy and irresponsible — that they’re all, as Ted Cruz put it, like a “slacker barista” who wasted years “studying completely useless things” — seems … not smart. To be brutally honest, that sort of caricature may have worked for Republicans when the insults were directed at urban Black people. But it’s likely to backfire when we’re talking about a broad spectrum of Americans who were just trying to move up in the world…
The thing is, Biden tried to address this underlying problem; free community college was part of his original Build Back Better proposal. But he couldn’t get it through Congress. He is, however, offering some real help to millions of Americans — and Republicans clearly have no idea how to respond.
President Obama increased regulation of for profit colleges: if it graduated people into debt they couldn't repay it wouldn't get federal aid.
Unfortunately President Trump undid the rules.
Glad President Biden is working on it again–getting at one of the root causes of debt. https://t.co/j9f0yZzilq
— Jason Furman (@jasonfurman) August 29, 2022
We’ve terminated college accreditors that allowed colleges – like ITT and Corinthian – to defraud borrowers.
@usedgov will also publish an annual list of colleges that leave students with unmanageable debt so that students can avoid these programs.
— President Biden (@POTUS) August 29, 2022
Another Repub complaint that should not be overlooked:
If you sacrifice your life for the cause you will get 40 academic credits in heaven. pic.twitter.com/vCqfEe0r5z
— Hend Amry (@LibyaLiberty) August 26, 2022
Alexandra Petri, at the Washington Post, channels her inner Repub: Stop improving things right now! Everyone must suffer as I did!
DISGUSTING! AWFUL! I have just received word that life is getting marginally better for some people, and I am white-hot with fury! This is the worst thing that could possibly happen! I did not suffer and strive and work my fingers to the bone so that anybody else could have a life that does not involve suffering and striving and the working of fingers to the bone. I demand to see only bones and no fingers!
Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thrashing because I have had the nightmare again, the nightmare in which someone else is being spared a small hint of the suffering I endured. The world should not get better! The world should get worse along with me and perish along with me.
Every time anyone’s life improves at all, I personally am insulted. Any time anyone devises a labor-saving device, or passes some kind of weak, soft-hearted law that forecloses the opportunity for a new generation of children to lose fingers in dangerous machinery, I gnash my teeth. This is an affront to everyone who struggled so mightily. To avoid affronting them, we must keep everything just as bad as ever. Put those fingers back into the machines, or our suffering will have been in vain…
I look down at the face of my sleeping child and I vow: If this baby’s life is even one particle easier than mine was, I will burn this whole place down!…
Upper class conservative intellectuals stop pretending you just got out of a shift in the coal mine challenge
— Environmental Services Weedle (@PartyWurmple) August 24, 2022
a lot of people who change seniors bedpans have loans from nursing school? https://t.co/GTD5OmVeEr
— John Ganz (@lionel_trolling) August 24, 2022
the really out of touch people seem to be those who dont know of the existence of people with fairly modest income jobs and student loans who are financially struggling. they didn't do anything wrong, they were told this was the path to stability
— John Ganz (@lionel_trolling) August 24, 2022
all the secular libs quoting torah and the bible about forgiveness and charity and all the people with devout follower of christ in their bios absolutely losing their fucking minds, not gonna lie, i’m enjoying it
— World Famous Art Thief (@CalmSporting) August 25, 2022
Moar suffering for thee, but not for me!
Celebrate at the polls.
The Oracle of Solace
This is just a nefarious Democratic plan to win votes by doing things that improves peoples’ lives! How can the Republican platform of [checks notes] 404 Platform Not Found compete with that?
The real means-testing is progressive taxation. Pass it on.
@The Oracle of Solace:
People whose lives are improved by Dem polices aren’t people. They are special interests.
My loan is private and while I want it gone and it’s mostly paid I’m happy for the people who did get relief.
Who is the “we’ve reached the Joker phase of the Biden presidency” guy?
Villago Delenda Est
That tweet by World Famous Art Thief is just classic. The “Christians” are not followers of Jesus of Nazareth. They’re worshipers of Mammon and Moloch.
Someone nailed it within a couple of hours.
The thing is, if you went to an Ivy and aren’t making at least $125K, you kind of blew your chance there. Getting hired sight unseen for some stupidly well paying job is the point of the Ivies.
If you want to a state school and became an engineer, or went off to be a doctor or attorney, then odds are you’re over the $125K as well.
What’s left is going to be a fuckton of teachers, nurses, social workers, lab techs processing Covid tests, and so on, including a whole pile of government and private sector administrators – claims adjusters, medical billers, shit like that. You know, the people that make the world go round, the cogs in the machine.
If you went to a private and didn’t get a scholarship to cover most of your tuition, I don’t know what to tell you. Oh, and this will cover a whole bunch of trades that got 2 year degrees or certificates from community colleges and trade schools, because federal financial aid is available to those students that went to an accredited school – so a whole bunch of HVAC techs and shit like that which the GOP supposedly says this won’t help.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Dump has declared bankruptcy six times, skipping out on billions of dollars in loans. Yet they don’t have a problem with that.
I paid off my student loan too. The loans were a lot smaller then because costs were lower, and the interest rates were a lot lower then, and you could get loan forgiveness for teaching up to half the amount, and the extra income for having a college degree was immediate so you had a leg up on your debt. It was not that difficult to get a degree with very little indebtedness, especially if you were young and lived where commuting was possible.
I had a $1000 loan to help offset a $1600 tuition (for a year). It covered 5/8 ths of the amount. Today that tuition is over $63,000, and a loan to offset 5/8ths of it would be over $39,000. I only needed a loan for one year, so when I got my first real job what I owed was about 1/8 of my annual salary. To do the same thing today, a student would need to get a first job paying over $300,000.
It may be fairly reasonable to expect people who went to school when I did to pay off their loans in full. Or just pay as you go at a state school and not need a loan at all. That was 60 years ago. By the time my generation had kids ready for college, the costs had jumped way more than inflation. Even if the parents’ wages had kept pace with inflation they would have to face an even bigger jump in higher education costs. Education cost inflation barely even slowed when it flatlined for everything else, especially wages and salaries.
When someone says the kids should pay their student debt, ask them how much debt they finished school with, how much their schooling cost, and how much they got paid when they started working, and then compare that to the costs and wages today. It was easy to pay small debts with big salaries. Now students are more likely to have big debts and small salaries. It is different now.
If you expect students to pay off their debts or not need them, you need to have them or their parents earning proportionately to what the costs and incomes were back when most all of us did pay our loans or do without them. If every college graduate could earn $300K a year, they should not have a problem paying back tens or even hundreds of thousands in loans. But they don’t. They have been losing ground steadily since I got out, relative to the burden they take on.
NEW: Republican attorneys general, conservative groups are readying potential lawsuits to block Biden’s student debt plan
Most of the people in their 30s who still hold college debt graduated into the Great Recession. It’s no wonder they had a hard time repaying their loans.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@dm: He’s a lobbyist who used to work for Cocaine Mitch
A lot of people screaming over this are doing it for social issues. It’s like avocado toast all over again. The big gripe is that urban social liberals who don’t do Jesus/sex/gender right are getting money instead of being made to suffer for it. Even worse, this will give them more money to go do liberal things and live their godless lives.
It’s always this. The government should fund and cover private Christian educations, schollarships are OK but only for STEM, all liberal arts should be defunded and shut down and if you have a degree in that get to a McDonalds and make me a fucking burger, also tax any college into the ground and crush it if it dares do anything woke.
It’s always culture, mostly religious based, all the damn time.
Good. I was worried they would wait until after the election.
@JaneE: I have to admit, I have no recollection of what my college education at a state college cost in the mid 1970’s. My single mom elementary school teacher paid for it, though I did work part-time as a waitress in the faculty club for pocket money.
Which is me saying: What you said.
Eh. Education is a public good.
My Wife’s loans were forgiven two days ago through the public service student loan forgiveness program. Woohoo! It was a lot of money. It took a year and a half and a lot of stress.
Scott Jennings, former “special assistant’ to George W. Bush.
@HumboldtBlue: Who has standing? Seriously, who has standing to complain about the government choosing not to collect a portion of money owe to it?
@surfk9: congratulations!! Celebrating with you.
Republicans whose feelings were hurt.
We already give better-off people a tax break on tuition:
My children benefited from a 529 and my grandchildren will too. They’ll have a leg up. It’s just a fact. I’m thrilled people with less also got a break. I just wish it was permanent.
@caphilldcne: Thank You! The forgiveness process was really weird, but it feels so good to be done.
My undergrad was paid by parents and an AFROTC scholarship at an in state school with what I thought were outrageous costs (bitter laugh – it’s increased exponentially today). I actually got an international relations degree through an Air Force program that was not expensive and provided access to the Bodelian library at Oxford. And then for technical reasons I still had GI Bill benefits so I got a law degree after leaving the AF. Also a state school that I eventually convinced them I qualified for in-state. I took out loans for that that I paid off with an inheritance from a grandparent. I’m delighted for this loan forgiveness package and hope millions of people get some relief. I’d be in favor of more!! What the Rs have done to make education expensive is unforgivable.
Also, if you can get into a labor union apprenticeship you’ll finish debt-free. Not all trade schools charge students. It’s an apprenticeship- the idea is you’re working in place of tuition. Put in 5 years with low pay, finish with an immediate bump-up to skilled trade wages. The 5 years is the tuition.
But Republicans don’t like to talk about that option.
@surfk9: glad you made it. If this is the relief program for public service I understand it ground to a halt under DeVos. And only 4% of eligible people have been approved so it’s great news!
My parents and then assistantships paid for my state university education so I got degrees without debt. My spouse and I were able to buy a townhouse during our very first “real” jobs after college. It was a stretch (high interest rates) but no way would we have been able to if we had to pay down debt for our educations. We also bought cars, consumer goods, dined out, vacationed and paid a shitload of taxes, sales and income, excise and others.
What’s wrong with people that they don’t want others to have at least as good or better lives? Okay, I know, but efgoldman them.
@Kay: I frequently hear ads by the IBEW and the Steam Fitters locals on WTOP, the leading all-news radio station for the DC Metro area. The ads feature apprentices talking about the benefits of their paid, skill-building apprentishipments, as well as announcers talking up the union’s productive work force. The ads seem intended to make the unions attractive to businesses as well as recruit apprentices.
Oh, I’m glad. I talk them up to teenagers here. My middle son went thru an IBEW electrical apprenticeship and he does quite well. He had to apply twice – once after high school where he was turned down – they only took 20 that year- and a second time afer he completed a electrical course at a community college. He also made what will be perhaps lifelong friends – a particular “class” are together nearly the whole 5 years and the classes aren’t big. They really get to know one another.
I want one of the kids I talk to to to do an elevator repair apprenticeship! They’re like unicorns and everyone with an elevator eventually needs one. OMG you can just about name your hourly rate. The elevator has to work! :)
Villago Delenda Est
@Suzanne: As far as the billionaire parasite class and their GQp lackeys are concerned, it’s a bad.
@eversor: not sure if this would be relevant to your situation but might be worth a look