I think it’s time for the “new” Republican party to change their animal symbol from the elephant to this. In my mind, they are no better than filthy pigs who want to destroy good government and trash the place. Gaslighting Old Pigs.
According to the Washington Post, all but two McCarthy defectors in House are election deniers.
All but two of the 20 Republican House members who voted against Kevin McCarthy for speaker in Tuesday’s third ballot round are election deniers who embraced former president Donald Trump’s false claims that the 2020 election was rigged.
Of the 18 deniers, 14 are returning members who voted against certification of the electoral college count on Jan. 6, 2021. In addition, four election-denying newcomers either expressed support for that vote, embraced partisan post-election audits or promoted false claims of 2020 election fraud.
The tally reflects the degree to which election deniers dominate the House Republican caucus, accounting for more than three-quarters of the 222-person conference. A significant majority of McCarthy’s 202 votes — 157 — came from election deniers. But with Republicans holding only a slender majority, any Republican seeking to lead the House must garner near-unanimous support from the caucus’s deniers in order to succeed.
McCarthy (R-Calif.) himself embraced false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump. So did Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), who received votes from the 20 defectors on the third ballot.
The two Republicans voting against McCarthy who are not deniers are Chip Roy of Texas, the only returning member in the group who did not oppose the certification of President Biden’s victory; and Josh Brecheen of Oklahoma, a newcomer to the House.
The 14 returning election deniers who voted against McCarthy are: Andrew S. Clyde of Georgia; Paul A. Gosar and Andy Biggs of Arizona; Matt Gaetz and Byron Donalds of Florida; Lauren Boebert (Colo.), Mary E. Miller (Ill.), Andy Harris (Md.), Matthew M. Rosendale (Mont.), Dan Bishop (N.C.), Scott Perry (Pa.), Ralph Norman (S.C.), Michael Cloud (Tex.) and Bob Good (Va.).
The four newcomers who voted against McCarthy are Eli Crane (Ariz.), Anna Paulina Luna (Fla.), Andy Ogles (Tenn.) and Keith Self (Tex.).
Looks like House proceedings begin around noon. Have they started?
Running total of votes on C-SPAN!
Open thread.
Math Guy
Belated Happy New Year to all of you.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Some fool from Texas is speaking now. He’s nominating a Black guy I don’t know and talking about how Rs don’t judge people by the color of their skin but by their character.
Jeffro
I think it’s tremendous that the GQP is being advised on avoiding embarrassment by none other than one-term loser/twice impeached/Stormy’s buddy/current tax fraud investigation target/current espionage investigation target…donald j trumpov
L to the OL
Almost Retired
Oh shit, this buffoon is putting Ukraine funding on the line. Sigh.
Leto
@Dorothy A. Winsor: makes some mouth noises that sound “reasonable”, then immediately falls back into dipshit claptrack non-sense. They’ll all assclowns.
Ten Bears
Too good too pass up: Greedy Old Pigs
Alison Rose
God am I ever sick of white conservatives quoting MLK to try to pretend they’re not racist
Old School
@Math Guy: Happy New Year to you as well!
piratedan
question…. say the GOP misplays this and we get HJ as Speaker, does he come with his own set of rules, like McCarthy?
Alison Rose
So far all the Jordan votes are now for Donalds. Really making the Never Kevin thing clear.
CaseyL
@Alison Rose: That line about “content of their character” is the ONLY one MLK ever spoke that the GOP a) knows about; b) cares to remember.
And I also want to note that pigs, like elephants, are intelligent creatures who cherish their families. They both deserve better than to be associated with the GOP.
However, that would also be true for tapeworms, cockroaches, and body lice, so I’m not sure where to go for Party mascots for that collective waste of air and protoplasm.
eachother
A couple of days ago I said Pigs separate us.
UncleEbeneezer
I know some are enjoying the fight, but it just makes me sad. McCarthy, Biggs, Jordan and others, all have direct ties and possible legal exposure to a violent attempted insurrection. US voters not only vote these assholes into office, they allow them to be prominent leaders of 1 of 2 major parties. Unless this creates a Republican shit show, so bad that we get a Dem Senate, House and POTUS in 2024 with a big enough margin to actually address SCOTUS, expand House and add DC Statehood (which I doubt, since US voters are incredibly unreliable), it’s hard for me to enjoy any of this.
RaflW
So Kevin couldn’t whip an adjournment, so he’s going to lose another vote now?
Day-um. He’s really getting his just deserts, I guess.
bbleh
I suppose it says something unflattering about my character, or at least my state of mind, that I’m actually enjoying watching a freakin’ roll call, for the fourth time.
Alison Rose
@CaseyL: And MLK himself later said that his dream had become a nightmare basically because white moderates were pieces of shit. That second part is my editorializing, a bit.
WaterGirl
“He’s black, he loves his wife, and he’s a Christian! ”
Apparently that’s all you need to be Speaker of the House!
bbleh
@RaflW: It speaks to his leadership ability. It may not say anything very nice, but it speaks to it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
interesting detail
RinaX
Well, I’ll happily take an L for my comments the other day. I genuinely thought they’d fall in line yesterday and go with McCarthy. He’s someone CNN will happily pass off as a “reasonable Republican” even though he’s garbage trash like the rest of them. I now realize that’s exactly what the crazies hate about him. They want their insanity front and center.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: “Why do Democrats hate Blacks, loyal husbands, and Christians?”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Basically, they nominated him to “prove” they’re not racist
WaterGirl
C-SPAN has the running totals.
Eric NNY
You insult pigs.
Steeplejack
“[. . .] all but two McCarthy defectors in House are election deniers.”
Big deal. As Matt McIrvin noted downstairs, “McCarthy himself is an election denier, and the vast majority of his supporters are election deniers.”
From the Post article: “A significant majority of McCarthy’s 202 votes—157—came from election deniers.”
What is the point of the Post‘s “water is wet” observation? That a subset of the crazy GQP is slightly crazier than the larger group? I’m shocked—shocked!
Alison Rose
Sis
Agreed except for the fact that unlike most R lawmakers, pigs are wonderful, intelligent animals.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl:
C-SPAN.org home base
and
YouTube version of C-SPAN.org.
HTH!
Cheers,
Scott.
Steeplejack
Ugh, MSNBC is running with the B-team—Andrea Mitchell and Chuck Todd. Might switch to C-SPAN or maybe just tune out for a bit.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: We elected Obama, they put in Michael Steele as chair of the RNC. Hillary runs, they pick Palin as VP.
We have the Rev. in GA, they put in Hershell Walker.
We have Hakeem, they nominate the black Republican in the House.
They are shallow, evil and totally out of touch. What makes them think that black people are stupid?
WaterGirl
So no one is voting today for Gym Jordan?
emmyelle
Stop it! I love pigs. They are intelligent, majestic animals.
Alison Rose
Okay even when it’s someone on our side, I don’t love the speechifying when they vote.
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Nope, so far all of his votes are now for Donalds. Up to 12 now LOL
EarthWindFire
@Alison Rose: Tacky is a kind work for it. Racist tokenism jackassery is a more accurate phrase.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@WaterGirl: This performance isn’t for Black people – it’s white people they’re trying to fool.
PAM Dirac
@WaterGirl:
That was so yesterday. The cool kids have moved on.
lowtechcyclist
@Alison Rose: And of course it goes back to them putting up Alan Keyes against Obama.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl:
I’m going to go with “saying black people are inferior is the party platform”.
Their entire worldview is predicated on their superiority, which they constantly have to inventory evidence for. Of course that makes then underestimate their enemies.
RaflW
Omnishambles!
Citizen Alan
@WaterGirl: There are no Christians in the Republican Party. Not one. There’s just a bunch of assholes who all got dunked in bathtub when they were little kids after their families pressured them into it. And having been dunked in the magic bathtub, they were then told that they could be as utterly hateful as they wanted and still get into heaven (which they envision as some whites-only gated country club of the afterlife).
RandomMonster
Actual pigs are cute.
EarthWindFire
We’re talking about the same people who defend The Bell Curve.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Wow. Byron Donalds, wiki tells me, is from Francis Rooney’s old district. I’m surprised my aunt’s entire snowbird, state-income-tax-refugee, sequined-MAGA-hat-wearing, aqua-robics group on Marco Island didn’t have a collective stroke.
Roger Moore
@CaseyL:
They’re the COVID-19 party.
UncleEbeneezer
@CaseyL: What they mean when they quote “Content Of Their Character” is really “Nobody can ever criticize White People*”. That’s it.
* Offer definitely does not apply to Black people, Women, Asian-Americans, Latinx, Muslims, LGBTQ etc.
Alison Rose
@EarthWindFire: The tweet is from a Black woman, so I am sure she would agree.
Martin
@WaterGirl: I mean, yeah, it’s really nothing more than that. When the camera shifted over to him my wife said ‘what was his name again? Token?’
So yeah, the defectors are trying to shore up the optics of their defections. I’m sure Jordan made it super clear he didn’t want to be speaker. They needed a different name. The other name doesn’t matter at this stage – Donalds wasn’t a meaningful candidate of discussion at the meeting last night. He was one of the defectors so he’s the best name out of the 20, not the best name out of the 222.
lowtechcyclist
@Citizen Alan:
I think that’s a fair and accurate assessment.
Mai Naem mobile
Fourth time is not going to the charm for McCarthy. Probably neither the fifth.
eclare
@WaterGirl: So true.
jonas
You know, like Herschel Walker.
EarthWindFire
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Think our media will bother to ask why they put up Donalds second instead of first? Yeah, me neither.
Highway Rob
@lowtechcyclist: Or even Clarence Thomas for Thurgood Marshall’s seat.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: They think everyone is stupid, of course.
Their campaigns are memorized lists of Luntz Words.
Their policies are evil cartoons divorced from reality.
They don’t care that they lie all the time, and have for ages.
They just want power, and don’t care how they get it.
As we all know. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
@WaterGirl: Don’t miss the pronoun “he”, that’s a big part of it too.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Marco Island, LOL! Good gourd, don’t get me started. Awesome Burrowing Owl nesting sites there, though. I love those hissy little bastards! They’re about the size of a beer can, but they wanna start some shit! ;-)
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: Yep.
Jeffro
@Alison Rose: they think the only reason we vote for candidates of color is because they’re candidates of color. seriously.
Martin
@Citizen Alan: I think you are holding onto a notion of Christianity that does not comport with where the majority of American Christians are – particularly white Christians. Jim Crow was a product of white Christianity. Slavery was a product of white Christianity. These institutions were defended biblically.
Roger Moore
@Alison Rose:
He was pointing out the uselessness of White moderates well before the “I Have a Dream” speech. The one I can remember best is “Letter From a Birmingham Jail”.
jonas
@WaterGirl:
Mostly racism, I suppose.
RaflW
@Steeplejack: I LOL’d at this:
Belafon
I think Jordan told everyone he wants to be on the Judiciary.
Citizen Alan
@WaterGirl: A slight disagreement here. They didn’t put Palin in because Hillary was running. They put her in because Hillary lost to Obama in a hotly contested primary. If Hillary had beaten Obama, I imagine McCain would have picked (or been forced to pick) a black male, probably J.C. Watts.
The thing of it is, white patriarchal supremacy is so deeply ingrained in the GOP that they literally cannot conceive of anyone picking either a woman or a POC over a while male for any possible reason other than virtue signaling. And if all you’re doing is virtue signaling, then any woman or POC will do. So why wouldn’t they expect Dem women who were upset over Hillary losing to Obama to simply crossover to the GOP and vote for whatever woman they had on the ballot?
The really offensive thing to me is that there were actually credible GOP women who might well have tipped the balance in McCain’s favor, like Kaye Bailey Hutchinson or Libby Dole. But neither of them could pull off the sexy librarian look needed to send a tingle up the legs of whoever that pig was at National Review, so Palin it was.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl: They’re not doing this for any POC. They’re doing it for whites who are implicitly racist but like to be reassured every so often that isn’t so.
danielx
@Mai Naem mobile:
Nor yet the fiftieth.
EarthWindFire
I absolutely agree with this statement, simply because there’s no other logical explanation for their aggregate behavior. But I still don’t get how they think the end game is going to go when they have to beg Dems to bail them out all the time.
PPCLI
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Did the nomination speech continue: “And when I learned that Rep. Donalds pleaded guilty to a federal bribery charge for an effort to defraud a bank, I knew that whatever his skin color, this man was an ideal choice for a Republican leader.” ?
Salty Sam
They taste great too!
Shalimar
Enjoying hour 7 of watching pundits try to come up with creative ways of saying “Kevin McCarthy sucks at this.”
M31
lol when Pelosi voted “Jeffries” just now there was scattered applause
Roger Moore
@Citizen Alan:
The regular use of “virtue signaling” is itself a big warning sign. They’re basically saying nobody would ever do anything virtuous because it’s virtuous, only because they’re trying to impress others. It’s a morally awful worldview, and they’re happily admitting to it all the time.
Jeffro
@Belafon: Jordan must think he’s going to be some kind of historic RWNJ hero for all time by leading the dreaded Hunter Biden laptop investigations
a (truly) White knight, if you will
M31
“remember when we had a real Speaker?”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@PPCLI: Cripes. I thought you were kidding.
suzanne
Dedicated to my Kevin:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PPCLI: and the math suggests that was after he, as Parson Roy tells us, “became a Christian man”
I guess they also want to go on record in favor of religious tests
RaflW
@Citizen Alan: I lived in Texas when KBH was a senator. She was at least a person who appeared to believe in the institutions of government (even if for ends I disagreed with).
I’ve been gone from TX long enough, and overwhelmed by the shit-funnel of TFGs four years. I didn’t know till this second that she was the US Ambassador to NATO for most of his maladministration. What a stain on her modestly good name.
Citizen Alan
@Martin: I am well aware of the fact that the Southern Baptist and Southern Methodist churches (among others) only exist because antebellum plantation owners insisted on preachers who would reassure them that God was perfectly okay with brutal chattel slavery. I fail to see how any of that conflicts with my prior statement that there are no Christians in the GOP who would ever consider living in a “Christ-like” manner as opposed to performative Christians who use their tribal affiliations with evangelical Christianity as an excuse to be hateful.
Fun fact: were you aware of the fact that in the New Testament, Jesus flat-out says that on Judgment Day he will be sending lots of self-described Christians straight to hell, mainly for their cruelties towards the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, the immigrants, and the children.
Alison Rose
And there’s all 20 Jordan votes now for Donalds. Sup, Kevin?
lowtechcyclist
@Martin:
Still, a bunch of people using the forms of Christianity as a cover to be assholes to their neighbor.
HumboldtBlue
@bbleh:
Doug J’s “Dems in disarray” tweet has some great comments, including this one.
RaflW
@EarthWindFire: The end game is going to go like this, because these people are absolutely broken, horrible people:
– Shutdowns. At least two, but who knows.
– Debt default. They cannot be persuaded that this is an actual catastrophe that will have decades of ripples as the US falls from its position of reserve currency and refuge of global cash safety.
I wasn’t this pessimistic 25 hours ago. I am now, seeing this utterly depraved performative stupidity.
WaterGirl
@Citizen Alan: You’re right, that was sloppy writing. They gave added Palin because they thought the women who liked Hillary would vote for a vagina.
lowtechcyclist
@PPCLI:
Gotta admit, that helps him fit right in!
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: Truth.
sigh.
stacib
@Martin: This is why I’m always so amazed that black people hug the bible, and the reason I lean atheist. How can you believe in a doctrine that doesn’t even recognize your humanity (or at least the text can be twisted to mean exactly that)?
Baud
So if they want to virtue signal with a gay person next, is Santos the only one they have?
Matt McIrvin
@CaseyL: And for those white people to use it as not-racist cover when arguing with other, more liberal white people, who in some cases might actually shut up or be adequately distracted. It’s an intra-white-people debate tactic about racism.
M31
“Why Won’t the Democrats Stop the Chaos?”
-NYT, soon
Ruckus
I ask, who benefits from this clusterfuck?
Because anything this obviously fucked up by a gang that can’t find the gun let alone shoot straight only happens because someone wants it to.
Who and why might that be, considering who is doing the fucking up of making our government not work at all?
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That wasn’t a joke? Geez, you can’t make this stuff up.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Kevin McCarthy is second only to Rubio as a fit for twitter Nixon’s schtick
Kevin McCarthy is no Francis Urquhart.
PPCLI
@WaterGirl: No joke. Check his Wikipedia page — s’afact.
RaflW
@HumboldtBlue: OMG that is an actual GOP talking point now!
WaterGirl
The first PRESENT vote. Warning shot?
Alison Rose
LOLOL “present”
Matt McIrvin
@stacib: I’m an atheist myself but I find that the twisting of any statement of authority by racists is infinitely elastic. They can do it with religion and they can do it with other things. Christian fundamentalist creationists will tell you that evolutionary biology has been exploited by racists to deny the humanity of Black people, and they’re right about that; it has. It’s bullshit biology, but it’s definitely around and has been since the beginning of evolutionary theory, claiming the mantle of Science. But I wouldn’t want people to be repelled by science, or by evolutionary biology, because of it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@WaterGirl: Not according to Wikipedia. He was 22 at the time.
tobie
@HumboldtBlue: PBS News Hour interviewed a GOP backer of McCarthy and she said exactly that close to 10 times. The party must have focus-group tested the line in anticipation of this fiasco.
Baud
@HumboldtBlue:
@tobie:
I feel smart. I predicted that talking point like three days ago.
WaterGirl
Predictions for the next move from the Rs?
Elizabelle
Lol. A fourth lost vote. Could you hear me laughing aloud from where you are? Breaking news at the LA Times. Which is not a fan of Kevin. They’re probably laughing too.
WaterGirl
I can’t help but notice all those white Republican males, many with gray hair.
HumboldtBlue
@stacib:
The bible they hug specifically condones slavery and goes into great detail on how you must treat them.
artem1s
@WaterGirl:
Good lord. so not (they all look alike) Hershel Walker? That’s quite the endorsement.
dmsilev
@Elizabelle: If you click on the LA Times’ breaking-news banner and go to the actual story, the headline has an additional twist of the knife: ‘Kevin McCarthy loses fourth vote for speaker despite Trump’s help’.
Geminid
@RinaX: I thought the same thing up until Monday: that Republicans would present a united front the first day and elect McCaerhy Speaker, with 4 defections perhap. Postponing their fights was in their interest.
But I am reminded that their House caucus is a reflection of the party’s values nationally, A very large component of their base simply is not rational. These radicals confuse pragmatism with weakness, and they consider cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face to be an ingenious strategy.
I trust Democrats won’t give in to the urge to end their opponents’ misery by enabling them to elect a Speaker. Compassion is indeed a virtue, but some situations require “tough love.”
WaterGirl
In particular, what’s the next move for the 20 (mostly) election deniers who are Never-Kevin?
Martin
@Belafon: I think Jordan told everyone he
wants to be on the Judiciary.doesn’t want to go to prison like Hastert did.Fixed that for ya.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dorothy A. Winsor: and, um….
“Expunged” how and by whom, in 2016?
also:
because of course
Ken
@WaterGirl: I suppose mass resignations would be too much to hope for.
Miss Bianca
@WaterGirl: Well, by those gross measurements, they should be clamoring to vote for HJ!
UncleEbeneezer
@Martin: Christians have been disagreeing over what constitutes Christianity since 150 AD with schisms happening 50+ times. It’s always weird to me when people act like there is one “Christianity” and that Evangelical Christians somehow aren’t real Christians. I mean get what they’re saying but no, sorry, Christianity doesn’t get a pass from being associated with Millions of these assholes. They are very much Christians and a large part of Christianity.
M31
If I’m reading it right the third vote was 212 Jeffries, 203 McCarthy, and 19 others, and today’s fourth vote was 212 201 20, so that last “Present” vote was someone new
hahaha how many more “Presents” do we need to elect Jeffries? what a bunch of maroons
Amir Khalid
Kevin is down one vote from yesterday. I take it that’s not good news for him.
WaterGirl
Does anyone know who these guys are? Are they part of the 20?
tobie
@Baud: You can change your nym to “Tomorrow’s GOP Spin Predicted Today.” Would it be illegal for BJ to allow betting?
WaterGirl
Wow, the C-SPAN guy just said Kevin has reached out to Democrats about a “consensus candidate” or abstaining so Kevin doesn’t need as many votes.
Is KEVIN the consensus candidate in his own mind?
Martin
@WaterGirl: Same. Maybe pick a different name. McCarthy lost another vote. This one is scarier because a switch to ‘present’ means that Jeffries got one step closer to winning this vote, not that Donalds or whoever got closer. I mean, their goal is to get McCarthy to give up. That’s when this probably resolves pretty quickly. McCarthy’s risk is by not giving up, 9 present votes from his caucus makes Jeffries speaker provided that Democrats all show up.
(Looks at Santos huddling in there as though anyone is engaging with him and not ignoring him in a determined way).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: they all look alike to me, but I think that’s the cluster that the MSNBC correspondent just described as “tense”
Ken
Yes, but does he know that? As many have noted, it’s clear he can’t count.
WaterGirl
@Martin: That’s why I wondered if PRESENT was a warning shot? “We are getting tired of this bullshit.”
MisterForkbeard
@tobie: Greenwald was out saying this too. “The Republicans are voting repeatedly because they’re a healthy party with disagreements that don’t always vote in lockstep with party leadership, unlike the Democrats”
Which was frankly amazing levels of projection, yeah.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I suspect McConnell despises McCarthy as much as… well… pretty much everybody despises McCarthy, and as much as McConnell pretty much despises everybody.
also, I don’t know how hard McConnell was seeking that major bridge project from 2009-17. He had different priorities then….
Redshift
@RaflW: There was one yesterday that was even closer:
Sure, dude, it’s a “deliberative discussion” where no one is talking about any issues of contention or how to resolve them. Unless you count who’s “not a real conservative” as an “issue.”
MisterDancer
Da fuq you say?
You know nothing about why the African-American Community’s bedrock was the Christian Church, do you? You just spout ignorance as if atheism is somehow proof of your wisdom.
I grew up in that Church system, in parallel with 8 years of Catholic Schooling. As I recall, my first Front Page post here was about a pop song — with Biden ties, no less — that reminded me of many gospel songs I sang in choir as a kid.
Black folx have a church system because we were stripped of any and all native religious and belief systems under Chattel Slavery. For a century+, all we had was The Bible. And specifically, Exodus and related books about the liberation of Jewish slaves.
Then the women and men who were allowed to be educated, during Jim Crow, under that system tended to be church people. It’s not a coincidence that Dr. King got his Doctorate so he could become a pastor. The Black church was about the only system available across the country for supporting what would become the Civil Rights Movement, even as other systems, like Black-controlled Unions and other orgs, would rise up to meet the challenges as that movement grew.
My ancestors don’t hug the damned Bible, you nitwit. We held to the Bible as a damned life-raft, the only thing we were allowed –nay, encouraged — to have that said we might, someday, be free.
And although I don’t today hold that Bible as dear as my ancestors — my Parents — did, I respect why they do, and get where it comes from.
(Takes Breath)
I’m going to just say that you’re more than welcome to go use this vast Internet, your local Library, and other services to get educated. Everything I said about is in multiple works on African-American history from credible scholars; you can locate any “Black Lives Matter” Reading List for a starting point for your research.
And I took this breath because, as angry as I am about your thoughtless dismissal of a very painful point in history, I hope and trust you’ll use this to go learn. As someone who spent much of his college and early 20s as an Agnostic,including USENET debates, I assure you I get it, and some of my anger is that I see in myself the narrow focus you’re applying now.
Please don’t take this forward. You WILL hurt others in ways that is not promoting the best of Atheism, and makes you look more like the Islamphobic fool s in Atheism like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris, than the kind of wise sage I think you’d like to be.
Please be better. Thank you for reading.
Martin
@WaterGirl: Maybe. It’s a weird warning shot though. ‘Present’ defections make Jeffries speaker, not some other Republican. It’s a particularly dangerous warning shot unless we’ve already hit the point where things are so petty that McCarthy would rather lose to Jeffries than to the freedom caucus.
Not that I put that past them, just that I’m surprised we got there by vote 4.
Soprano2
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Totally, they don’t care if black people think they’re racists, but they desperately want to convince white moderates that they aren’t racist. That’s why they do token things like this.
Amir Khalid
Gaetz seems all wee-weed up about something.
MisterDancer
RE: the Black GOPer nominated:
Not touching that situation. Not worth touching. It’s a dog whistle move, and I’d advise just ignoring it and moving the hell on with your popcorn eating.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: This is not for black people but to give themselves and their supporters plausible deniability. Hey we nominated a black person we can’t be racist.
Roger Moore
@HumboldtBlue:
Which the slavers failed to follow. Slavery in the USA was far more brutal than what the Bible allows.
Soprano2
@Jeffro: And they always complain about how they think black people will vote for any black person, without examining how any white R will vote for any other white R no matter how bad of a candidate they are.
MisterForkbeard
@Martin: As others have noted, Jeffries as Speaker basically just wouldn’t work. He’d immediately put together some kind of a rules package with concessions (like giving Rs equal representation on committees and so on), maybe a change to how the speaker is elected just for this term, etc.
And then it would get voted down by all Republicans and we’d be back in this mess again. Which would… be really embarrassing to Rs more than Dems, especially if Jeffries initial offer was really generous. But still temporary, all the same.
Gonna be real interesting, to see what happens.
soapdish
Unfortunately for pigs, they are also delicious.
MisterForkbeard
@Redshift: Dems had their healthy discussion and worked it out ahead of time. Literally: Lots of articles in 2018 and 2020 about who Pelosi was talking to, how she was getting compromises from various Dem factions, and so on.
This is just Rs admitting to not being able to do their jobs.
Redshift
@piratedan:
Sadly, no. The vote on the rules happens after the Speaker is elected and the members are sworn in, and it’s a vote of the whole House, not just the Speaker’s party.
I’m still not clear on how removing the metal detectors already happened. I read that it could be done because they were part of the rules of the previous Congress, which had expired, but I still don’t get how anyone had the authority to remove them, since the Clerk of the House (appointed by Nancy SMASH) is in charge until a Speaker is elected. But maybe she didn’t think it was a fight worth having.
NotoriousJRT
Greedy Old Psychos works for me. Pigs are better than the modern day Republican leaders.
Ken
@Redshift: I recall in November 2020, there were rumblings among the Democrats that maybe someone other than Pelosi should take over. But they had their “deliberative discussions” in November and December, and in January when the vote was to be held they knew the outcome.
McCarthy either wasted that time, or didn’t realize he needed to use it.
EDIT: MisterForkbeard got there first.
MisterForkbeard
@Martin:
I’m pretty sure this is accurate, though. McCarthy needs to be Speaker. If he’s not, then his political career is over and he’ll leave congress this term, I’d bet.
He has to know that giving Jeffries the Speakership would doom his future lobbying efforts. So while McCarthy is definitely that venal and smallminded, he’s also greedy enough that he’d want Jeffries to win and to have it be the Freedom Caucus’ fault. No fingerprints from him.
Edmund Dantes
@WaterGirl: haven’t read down to see if anyone brought it up yet, but running a black guy against a black guy was the genesis of the crazification factor. Keyes vs Obama in the senate.
Inventor
If Lil’ Mac abolishes the “Hastert Rule” requiring any legislation to have “a majority of the majority” before getting a floor vote, it may be worth considering a deal.
That means everything gets an “upper down” vote on the floor. With a tiny, and likely to shrink further, majority for the Reps, that may be enough to get things done.
Alison Rose
@MisterDancer: In solidarity.
moonbat
@lowtechcyclist: Never forget that you can prove anything with the Bible. I had a brilliant high school history teacher who had me create two sets of debate cards using scripture: one arguing for God’s approval of slavery and one for God’s condemnation of slavery. It wasn’t hard. Just depends on where you pick your quotes.
Soprano2
@WaterGirl: I hope they tell him some version of “fuck you, this is your bed you made, hope you enjoy lying in it”.
jonas
I would be absolutely gobsmacked if that were true. What did he claim his source was? I can only presume whoever it was then added “when they had stopped laughing after five straight minutes, they told Kevin, ‘No.'”
Stacib
@HumboldtBlue: I know. Drives me nuts. All the meek shall inherit the earth bullshit somehow stuck. Have you read the 4 “A Conversation between Booker T. and W.E.B. Dubois? I’m definitely of the W.E.B. school of thought.
Alison Rose
Kevin Mark as Speaker. LOL.
MisterForkbeard
@Ken: Oh, he knew he had to do it and tried. Lots of stories in the past few months about Kevin trying to get the votes he needed.
He didn’t waste the time or not do the work: He just failed, and then instead of finding another candidate he decided to confront the issue in public and demand they give him his rightful due. Which obviously isn’t working, but so long as he sees a potential path to be speaker he’s going to stick on it regardless of the damage to the party, himself, or the country.
@jonas: I can absolutely see McCarthy asking Dem leadership to have some members vote “present” so they can get this over with. It’s not as humiliating to him, doesn’t directly look like he’s getting votes from Democrats, and lets Congress start now.
But there’s no reason for DEMS to help, no. Lots of laughing from the Dem leadership at that request, I imagine.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@MisterDancer: Thank you for this one – this must be said.
Sure Lurkalot
To right wingers, this clusterfuck is what democracy looks like, because hostage taking is their idea of negotiation and debate.
Alison Rose
LOLOLOLOL at a modern Republican lamenting “dehumanizing” others. BRO THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE YOUR HALF OF THE HOUSE.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Inventor: I suspect what Dems would hold out for is:
1) the putting away of childish things, that probably most Rs also want to put away but can’t say so: threats about the debt ceiling, Hunter’s laptop, Tony Fauci and Chinese bioweapons, investigating Liz Cheney, etc
2) committee memberships, including keeping Schiff and Swalwell on the Intel c’tee.
(Who’s the latest goon nominating poor Kevin for the fifth (?) vote?)
Redshift
@MisterForkbeard:
Well, of course. The congressdude is just spouting obvious BS. No serious person believes that a leadership election is the same thing as an election to office, or that hashing things out messily in public view is some kind of noble principle.
Tony Jay
McCarthy should just go loco. Board himself up in the
Pelosi RoomSpeaker’s Office with a dog, a gun, three teenage hookers, all Matt Gaetz’s cocaine and a crate of cheap wine, binge a box-set of Conservapedia Presents: Kevin Sorbo’s ‘The Best West Wing’ on the TV while drunk-dialling the newsdesks of selected regional newspapers offering titbits of scandal on “those fucking fuckers who thought they could fucking fuck with me”.Couple hours of that they’ll elect him Speaker 4 Life.
BruceFromOhio
Horribly unfair to real pigs.
Roger Moore
@Martin:
Voting “Present” as a threat to make Jeffries Speaker may be effective because the same people who let him become Speaker today can undo it pretty much at will. It would make total sense to let Jeffries be Speaker until the Republicans can come to a consensus, then boot him to the curb and install whomever the Republicans can agree on.
It’s a potentially effective threat against the Republicans who are demanding the Ethics committee be gutted, since I can guaran-damn-tee you that Jeffries won’t do that.
Ken
Are we sure? Has anyone done a taste-test comparison?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
help me, lord, I may have to watch this one
WaterGirl
I had to leave the house for about 15 minutes and now some Republican from the s0-called Freedom Caucus is talking on C-SPAN. What did I miss?
BruceFromOhio
@MisterDancer: Thank you for these words!
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore:
And even if it had been the kindest, gentlest slavery possible, it would have still been in contravention of the Gospels.
How is enslaving someone “doing unto others as you would have them do unto you”? What slave owner would have wanted to be on the other side of that relationship? How can you “love your neighbor as yourself” by denying your neighbor any agency to make their own decisions about their own life?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@M31: By my math the “presents” need to drop 221 down to 211 and Jeffries is speaker, so 10 more would do it. I’m beginning to wonder if that is indeed where this is heading – that enough GOP reps will just vote present to make Jeffries Speaker because they obviously can’t agree on anyone from their side. I mean, either they hold infinite votes that come out somewhere around 212 200 22 give or take a few from the 200 and 22 or…people just get tired of continuing to hold futile votes and start withholding their votes, which makes Jeffries speaker.
Kind of wonder how that outcome, should it come to pass, would be viewed by the media…will they have the mother of all bipartisan-gasms? Or point and laugh at a party that can so thoroughly not get it together that they allow someone from the opposition to run the chamber, for like the first time ever?
Ken
They didn’t have a motion to adjourn? I was expecting that, after the attempt to not even hold a vote today, and then the failure making it clear there wouldn’t be any progress.
Maybe the just-held vote reminded everyone how much fun it is to humiliate McCarthy.
Alison Rose
Shut up, dipshit
Redshift
@Soprano2: Jeffries gave the polite version of that response yesterday:
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
she’s nominating the dude from FL, Byron Donalds. No clue who that is, still. Now she’s flinging shit at McCarthy and GOP leadership.
Stacib
@MisterDancer: So, why not start a conversation by being an asshole. My entire flipping family is exactly as I describe, and many of the folks I’m related to in MS, AL and GA are the same. Fuck you, dude.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ken:
I’m listening to Boebert and are we sure she’s not Sarah Palin having drunk the blood of 22 virgin incels from the last Turning Point convention ?
ETA: sounds like her note cards are out of order
she calls on trump to call McCarthy and tell him to stand down
Brit in Chicago
@MisterDancer: Thank you. You make a necessary point very well.
The Moar You Know
@Inventor: what makes Kevin keep his word after the deal is done?
That’s right. NOTHING. If he fucked over all the Dems that would totally be on-brand for him and the GOP would probably elect him president in 2024.
Geminid
@Martin: I think the Republicans’ “safety valve” play is for McCarthy to throw in the towel, and then for Scalise to be nominated and elected.
But this dispute may be spinning out of control. I don’t see just the animus and resentment typical of intra-party fights here; I see hatred.
Redshift
@Ken: Someone upthread was saying the motion to adjourn from the Kevvies failed, which is why we’re having more failed leadership votes today instead of discussions about how to succeed.
Amir Khalid
@Alison Rose:
Amen.
Elizabelle
Why not just call the Republicans hemorrhoids?
Pigs have many good qualities; they’re very smart, and they’re useful. Sadly for pigs, they are also delicious.
Is there a lobby for hemorrhoids? I think not.
In the animal class: perhaps the GOP could be Burmese pythons. Invasive species; ruin everything they touch. A real threat to Florida. Some of them already look a tad leathery.
Eolirin
You know if there wasn’t the specter of death threats and actual violence from their supporters, I wonder if we wouldn’t have an actual shot of pulling a Cuomo and getting 5 members to flip parties in exchange for significant concessions.
UncleEbeneezer
@MisterDancer: Black People, are about the only group that collectively uses Christianity for good. When we try and get churches involved in Min Wage, Immigrants Rights, Police Reform, Rent Control, Public Education Funding etc. the Black churches are the only ones who regularly join (and are the backbone of) our local coalition efforts. White, Asian-American and Latino/a/x, Armenian churches never want to be involved.
Roger Moore
@Ken:
I’ve been hearing plenty of stories about what concessions McCarthy was offering to whom in an attempt to win their votes. He just wasn’t able to buy those votes effectively, either because he doesn’t know how or because the Representatives weren’t going to sell to him at any price.
I think this is where Pelosi’s experience came to be really valuable. When she first became Speaker, she had a big enough majority a few disgruntled Reps weren’t going to be able to keep it from her, so she had it easy. By the time she had to deal with putting together a vote with a slim majority, she had plenty of experience and knew how to do it.
McCarthy is trying to put together a majority for the first time with a tiny voting lead and a much less tractable caucus. I don’t know that anyone could get this group to agree on anything to the point of being able to win on the first ballot. They may not be willing to agree on anything without getting fatigued into submission.
Jeffro
@Soprano2:
And they always complain about how they think black people will vote for any black person, without examining how any white R will vote for any other white R no matter how bad of a candidate they are.
exactly!
It’s projection, all the way down.
patrick II
George Conway@gtconway3d
Look, the thing that matters, and what we need to respect, is that Kevin McCarthy *identifies* as Speaker of the House
RaflW
@Redshift: She might have seen the removal as a clear indicator of how stupid/NRA-gobbing the GOP is? If they detectors were coming down in 0, 1, or 3 or even 5 days, why not let it go.
I think she and Jeffries and the whole caucus is doing an excellent job of letting the Republicans have all the rope they can grab.
Ken
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Redshift: I see. Probably most of the Democrats want to finish their popcorn, and there are certainly plenty of Republicans who like watching McCarthy lose, so they can’t get to 218 for adjournment. Or for anything else.
EDIT: Well, maybe a vote to have McCarthy get his stuff out of the Speaker’s office. But probably they can do that before they elect a speaker and approve the rules.
James E Powell
@soapdish:
Obligatory.
opiejeanne
They just started the fifth ballot.
I’m sorry, I overslept on the West Coast and just remembered to turn on the tv.
Who the fuck is Donalds? I just listened to Boebert’s accolades for him and she made him sound like a loser who couldn’t win the Florida state Republican committee’s leadership position (can’t remember what that committee is called) .
Alison Rose
@Stacib: If your only response to MisterDancer’s thoughtful and very un-assholish comment is to call them an asshole, you might need to read it a few more times.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Will McCarthy’s chances last till the C’s this time? If Donalds isn’t at five as of Boebert, he’s close
Brit in Chicago
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: “By my math the “presents” need to drop 221 down to 211 and Jeffries is speaker, so 10 more would do it.”
No. For 212 to be more than half, there can only be 423 votes cast (for actual people, as opposed to ‘present’) in total. Since there are 434 with the right to vote, 11 of them would have to refrain from voting in that sense (but voting ‘present’, by leaving, or just not vote). That’s a very long way off; I’d give pretty good odds against its happening.
Ken
Or everyone he talked to thought, “He’s shown himself to be a lying sack of shit who doesn’t keep his promises often enough, why would this be any different?”
Some of them may even have said it to his face.
Jeffro
She wants trumpov…the most craven, approval-seeking, humiliation-avoiding creature on the FSM’s green earth…to go against his own public statements made just this morning and call McCarthy? To get McCarthy to quit running for the one thing he wants more than anything?
I just have this slight feeling that she might have lost every game of checkers she ever played. Tic tac toe, too.
Leto
@opiejeanne: No clue who he is besides someone from FL. Seems the batshit caucus is sort of coalescing around him?
James E Powell
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Democrats cannot make any deals with McCarthy. He is a liar & he doesn’t keep his word.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@patrick II: I hate these kind of jokes.
“Identify as” punchlines punch down. Jokes like this belittle and disrespect transgender people. Not a fan.
eclare
@Elizabelle: Great ideas!
Kristine
@Betty Cracker: They used to be all over the place when I lived in Florida (mid/late 60s – early 80s). Pass a vacant lot, see an owl or two.
Also, bobwhite quail with young trailing after. So adorable.
RaflW
Botulism Boebert as attempted power player? Who woulda thunk it.
Eolirin
@Brit in Chicago: Yes, and one already voted present, so… 10 more.
eclare
@UncleEbeneezer: Just look at Moral Mondays in NC.
Alison Rose
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: agreed
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh, this is quite the screenshot
lowtechcyclist
@moonbat:
Oh sure, which is why the inerrantist notion that every verse is equally important is bullshit. Is some random verse in Nahum as essential to either Christianity or Judaism as the Decalogue? Of course not. There are some parts that are the core, and others that are understood only in the light of that core.
In Christianity, there’s what Christians believe to be the fact of Jesus’ death and resurrection, and the two Great Commandments he handed down that he said summed up the Law and the Prophets, the second of which is “love your neighbor as yourself.”
If you can understand slavery in the light of loving one’s neighbor as oneself, then at best you must believe that your neighbor isn’t your neighbor at all, but rather some lesser species that’s incapable of making its own life decisions, which is why someone like you must own it and make all its decisions for it.
Inventor
@The Moar You Know: You could only do it by having it in the actual “Rules” along with the “motion to vacate the chair”. That makes it less likely to happen, so your point is very valid.
C Stars
@MisterDancer: Thank you. It takes a lot of arrogance to be entirely dismissive of a person’s (or a people’s) spirituality.
Kay
Jeffries promoted the heartland caucus back in December, because he can COUNT, and Michigan and Pennsylvania did much better for Democrats than NY did. I know this upsets NYers, but it is just a fact.
Everytime someone talks about jettisoning some of these state that aren’t good enough, tell me what you replace it with. What can go give me to replace MI and/or PA? NY isn’t good enough.
eclare
@Alison Rose: Thank you.
Amir Khalid
Round 5 is going to go pretty much like the first four, isn’t it? All 212 Democrats for Hakeem, 200-ish for Kevin, 20 for Byron Donalds.
C Stars
@UncleEbeneezer: What does this even mean? My church is about half people of color and half white folks, and spends almost all its money/effort toward social justice causes and local progressive politics.
RaflW
@Geminid: I aslo see a bunch of people in way over their heads. Folks who have rarely, if ever, had to compromise or think beyond their own wildly engorged egoes.
200 twitter/Fox “influencers” who each have a complete collective action problem. Sucks to be them. Or an American, really, while they have a death grip on offices.
Kay
OH went far Right but we got AZ and GA as swing states- a good trade. Ohio is declining and those states are growing. Colorado is blue. So what do we replace MI and PA with?
sdhays
@Martin: Is it that “dangerous”, though? If Jeffries wins, he still won’t have a majority. If the Democrats are in power for a few days/weeks while the Republicans eat their young and get their shit together, they can still then come back and force a reorganization of the House, right?
dnfree
@C Stars:
Having belonged to both groups, to me your statement reads like “Tell me you belong to a Unitarian Universalist or a United Church of Christ congregation without telling me you belong to the UU or UCC.”
Roger Moore
@lowtechcyclist:
Sure, but quote mining the Bible to prove your point goes back to the very origin of Christianity, quite literally. The Gospels are full of it. Just about every time they quote the Hebrew Bible, it’s taken out of context and doesn’t mean what the author quoting it is using it to mean. At some point you have to accept that selectively quoting stuff from the Bible out of context is just part of the Christian rhetorical style.
RaflW
@UncleEbeneezer: I realize I don’t know your geographic location, but in the Twin Cities, we’ve had a very effective progressive religious coalition that does a ton of work on homelessness, addiction, liveable wages, transit for all, and got heavily behind same sex marriage.
ELCA Lutherans. United Church of Christ. Disciples of Christ. Some Methodist congregations. UUs (though we’re not technically Christian). Reform Jews (definitely not Christian!)
Now, these are several of the ‘mainline’ denominations that have, nationally and likely locally, been hemorrhaging membership for 20+ years. So I’m not sure being Xtian liberals is a ‘winning message’ but the people I know in these congregations are (largely) white, earnest, loving, and action-oriented.
cckids
Jesus, tuning in late, I thought these jackasses were nominating Trump. I wasn’t even surprised.
Geminid
@Jeffro: I would hate to even try to teach Lauren Boebert how to play “Go Fish.” That would be pushing her mental envelope.
Gin & Tonic
@Stacib: Wow, I guess that’s one way to respond.
Geoduck
@Stacib: Well, they could have gone with the bits approving babies being bashed to death against rocks.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Can confirm. The whole goal is to fool white people who are uncomfortable with GOP racists into thinking they aren’t really racists.
zhena gogolia
@MisterDancer: Thank you for this.
zhena gogolia
@UncleEbeneezer: So are all socialists responsible for 1937 USSR?
Paul in KY
@Another Scott: It’s a crying shame that they can get elected by running such cynical campaigns.
Eolirin
@Kay: We can’t replace PA or MI, which is why our wins there were very important. We need to shore up WI too.
Making gains in AZ, cementing NV, slowly turning GA and NC. That’s about the best we can do.
opiejeanne
@cckids: I heard Donald(s) and thought it was Trump too. Geez.
James E Powell
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
They also like to say that the Democrats are the real racists.
...now I try to be amused
@Martin:
I could see the anti-McCarthyites putting up a whole roster of candidates, all getting 20 votes, to drive home the point that they’re not voting for anyone in particular but voting against McCarthy.
Shakti
I am unclear what these multiple speaker votes even mean in practical terms, except for a bit of schadenfreude that Hakeem Jeffries is more popular* in that chamber than any of the Republican candidates for Speaker.
What is the practical effects of this?
I believe the record for Speaker ballots is something like 133? Also that the last time there were multiple votes for any Speaker election was 100 years ago?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wonder how much money the totally not-clownish Mr Crenshaw spent on that video where he (near as I can tell and recall) pretended to be Tom Cruise in some kind of RW Mission Impossible fantasy? and where’d he get the money?
C Stars
@dnfree: UCC. But I also live in the bay area, and there are churches (and temples) around here that are not UU or UCC who do the same. It just seems a bit facile to categorize churches as good or bad by the single metric of race. I mean, that seems a facile and ill-advised metric in any context, really.
soapdish
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1610317691214073856
The Moar You Know
@RaflW: wish her mother had told her dad that before they conceived this vile spawn
Roger Moore
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
I’m not sure if this point is clear enough: the point isn’t to convince voters who are uncomfortable with racism that the GOP isn’t racist, but to let racist voters lie to themselves about their own racism. “I can’t be racist because I occasionally vote for a Black guy*” is a powerful argument for people who want to feel better about themselves.
*Substitute other forms of bigotry and their targets as necessary.
PAM Dirac
@Shakti:
The main effect is that absolutely nothing else can be done until a Speaker is chosen; no swearing in, no votes on House rules, no legislation. Nothing
C Stars
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Right? It’s pretty hilarious. They’re ALL clowns–they’re riding in the clown car, after all. But Crenshaw doesn’t see what is right in front of him.
Citizen Alan
@zhena gogolia: No, but a whole lotta socialists who should know better don’t seem to feel too bad about 1937 USSR.
Chris Johnson
Russia, for one. But I’m not sure how directly that works out. That’s who set them up to be this, but it was folks like Paul Ryan and McConnell who were able to actively work with Russia to get what they wanted, and I think all that are left are purely cannon fodder.
Russia wants civil war here, as always. Or, failing that, to dismantle the US by any means. This is as good as any, so they’re gonna be in favor of it but would like the wreckage to be more violent if possible. But they directly benefit, even though they stopped being a near-peer and superpower nation. Us being worse directly benefits them, hence their hard work towards these ends. They never wanted Republicans to actually be powerful, just to do damage.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and another one bails on Kevin, probably
Paul in KY
@Tony Jay: Would that be the ‘Bojo Gambit’?
Another Scott
@Shakti: There’s no need for any of the factions to give in yet. When they start missing their flights home, then we might see some movement. IOW, Thursday afternoon or Friday might be the earliest that some significant movement happens.
But, the real deadline isn’t until January 24 – the first real day of the House session (and even then it’s not a drop-dead date).
We’ll see!
Cheers,
Scott.
The Thin Black Duke
@Stacib: White people’s feelings get hurt so easily.
MisterDancer
I would be lying to you if I tried to hide my anger. Because yes, I am furious that you’d bring this kind of shitty dismissive argument to any fora. I’m angry that, rather than trying to understand why so many Black folx proclaim Christianity, you look at it thru a thin lens of your own pain.
Like I said, I’ve been there. I admitted some of my anger at you is because I stood in shoes that I suspect were like yours. I, too, spent years in painful situations; just because Black folx try hard to be “good Christians,” it doesn’t mean they always succeed.
(Try having your only vacations for your teen years be Gospel Conventions, on top of 8 years of Catholic schooling. I 1000% have a Right to be Hostile about Enforced Christianity. I’ve very much worked thru a LOT of these opinions, over decades, to get to this point.)
So I don’t own your horrific approach to African-American cultural understanding my calm mein and “nice guy” feedback. Your shitty attitude re-enforces shitty racist attitudes, and that needs to get called on the carpet. In fact, I don’t owe you anything. I took a breath and stayed honest even while trying to give resources to help you help yourself; I didn’t erase the words written in fury and rage just so I could look nice for you, or anyone.
You chose to open yourself to a angry response by showcasing what a narrow little world you live in, and encouraging shit takes on what it means to be Black and Christian. Anything after that is on you to rectify, not me.
You’re welcome to pie me if you still feel you need to lash out in some way.
PaulWartenberg
where’s the current vote tally? CSPAN is only showing the first four. I’m hearing that the fifth vote got WORSE for McCarthy.
Old School
@Amir Khalid:
And it has.
212 Jeffries.
201 McCarthy
20 Donalds
1 Present
Tim Ellis
@Kay: We don’t replace Michigan, we win Michigan. There’s a great grassroots movement afoot there, which is what’s driving the big swing we saw in 2018 and 2020. The “Voters Not Politicians” folks have done incredible work in getting non-partisan redistricting done, and that has unlocked a lot of other gains – both because the districts are better and because it’s given people a sense of victory from grassroots organizing. It’s impressive stuff and it makes me very optimistic for the future of the state.
(Disclaimer: I have run campaigns in Michigan and am biased to love the state lol)
The Thin Black Duke
@MisterDancer: Please stick around. Some people here are receptive to what you’re saying, I think.
Qrop Non Sequitur
McCarthy wasn’t able to cobble together the votes in two months since the election. Why should it be different now?
Jeffro
@Geminid: that’s a whole new series of party games or skits in itself: “Pretend You’re Lauren Boebert Playing [name of game]”
Does anyone have Stephen Colbert’s number?
Another Scott
@PaulWartenberg: The YouTube version of C-SPAN is still live and is talking about a 6th vote.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
@Tim Ellis: Agreed. Michigan is looking better and better these days.
Tony Jay
@Paul in KY:
Heh, more or less. Except that obnoxious slab would have had a wealthy donor ship in only the very best quality wine and nibbles for His Fluffiness and invited the BBC’s ‘elite’ political editors in to tongue his fleshy coinpurse while he mumbled half-remembered Latin swear words down the phone at random ex-wives.
MisterDancer
No plans to ditch, I promise! Just been real busy, so no posts or comments from me of late :(
Gravenstone
@WaterGirl: But “present” lowers the threshold of votes needed for Qev. Granted, he’d need a lot more than a handful of Republicans to vote “present”, but it may be the tepid beginning of his salvation.
cain
@MisterDancer: You are too good for this blog at times.
eclare
@MisterDancer: Thank you, I appreciate and learn from your comments.
cain
@patrick II: I don’t think there are any pronouns associated with that identity.
PAM Dirac
@Gravenstone: Since Jeffries has more votes than him, he needs more votes before he starts worrying about lower thresholds. He needs Ds to vote present (or just leave).
Kent
You need to read you some Book of Joshua, Ezekiel, and Judges to see what kind of brutality the Bible actually allows.
Paul in KY
@Jeffro: Solitaire also (even when she cheated).
Paul in KY
@Roger Moore: Selective quoting of anything is a venerable rhetorical style, methinks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
vote the sixth
same as the fifth
da da da da da da
TooManyJens
The nomination speeches for McCarthy are getting more desperate, and I’m here for it.
Paul in KY
@Citizen Alan: Politically, the only thing ‘socialist’ about 1937 USSR was the word ‘Socialist’ in the name. It was an autocratic dictatorship by then and also started out as one (although at first it was more an autocratic oligharical dictatorship).
Alison Rose
“What I am asking is that we get this bullshit done so I can go home and take off this ugly dress”
eclare
@Alison Rose: Hahaha..
Booze?
Geminid
@Tim Ellis: No one is proposing replacing Michigan, just holding onto it specifically and enhancing our strength in the midwest generally. I think the point is that there are few prospects for gains outside of the states we already firmly control. Those prospects would be Nevada, Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina.
This “Heartland Caucus” also sounds intended to help Representatives in red states who hold purple districts. Marcy Kaptur (OH) and Sharice Davids (KS) would be two examples.
Thank you for your perspective as a hands on political professional. I’m glad your redistricting process turned out well. I can think of at least four states that tried new “nonpartisan” redistricting setups this year and results varied greatly. It seems like Michigan had the best outcome.
Fake Irishman
@MisterDancer:
Amen sir.
Alison Rose
Man, fuck this bitch
Paul in KY
@MisterDancer: Like you, I had allll the church I could handle when I was a lad.
There are many good people who attend church. Though, in many ‘white’ denominations, those people seem to be outnumbered by the faux ones. I’m white, so my only experience with organized religion was in white Methodist congregations.
West of the Rockies
@Alison Rose:
You know, I’d probably love that dress on Cecile Richards, but this GOP buffoon is ludicrous and ruins the dress by her lies.
TooManyJens
I’d love to have a couple drinks with the clerks who have to actually run this shitshow.
Alison Rose
@West of the Rockies: The light and dark wrap thing just always makes the boobs look uneven.
Also too, she’s an asshole. Calling Dems boozehounds and then complaining about the House not being in order. Go fuck yourself, you self-loathing pickme.
Paul in KY
@Tony Jay: He does a good job of taking care of himself. I must say that. Happy New Year to you & your family, Tony!
jonas
Where did this Byron Donalds character come from all of a sudden? I’ve never heard of him.
Betty Cracker
Looks like they’re going with Donalds again for the sixth round.
@Alison Rose: Who was that horrid person?
Tom Levenson
@The Thin Black Duke:
@MisterDancer:
Yes. Please stay.
TooManyJens
I would like to amend my previous comment to note that all of the R nomination speeches are getting desperate.
“This institution is broken! Borders! FENTANYYYYYYYYL!”
Alison Rose
the fuck is this nutjob talking about???
moonbat
@lowtechcyclist: Of course which is why white supremacists love the Old Testament. If you ignore all the cool stuff Jesus actually said you can be as evil as you want.
Almost Retired
Who is this undertaker-looking dude nominating Donalds? Maybe it will work this time……
H-Bob
@Citizen Alan: My theory on McCain’s choice of Palin is that she was shorter than him, even in heels. He didn’t want someone else looming over him during his moment in the spotlight.
AliceBlue
@Betty Cracker: I didn’t catch her name, but she’s a newly elected rep from Florida.
CaseyL
I honestly think the GOP’s tactic – insofar as they have one – is to wear down the Democrats, to lower the threshold for McCarthy to win.
That is, if enough Dems decide there are better things they could be doing with their time and leave the chamber, the McCarthy forces might be able to overcome that consistent 20 vote deficit.
Here’s hoping the Dems are strategizing never to have more than 5 members absent from the chamber at any given time. Not sure how you manage bathroom breaks, though. (Yes, each office has its own loo – at least, I assume so – but those offices are scattered hither and yon. Might be quite a long walk for some.)
Betty Cracker
@AliceBlue: Ugh. Figures!
prostratedragon
@TooManyJens: Oh my! Has any retired clerk published a memoir, I wonder?
opiejeanne
@Almost Retired: Scott Perry, and how dare that total bitch say what she said.
Oh damn, he’s saying the same shit too.
Gravenstone
@CaseyL: The Democrats understand the shitshow that awaits Congress actually convening a session under Republican control. Gives them lots of incentive to fuck with them by remaining unified until the Republicans somehow find a single fool they can follow for the moment.
prostratedragon
@moonbat: Bet they wouldn’t find much support in the rabbinical commentaries.
opiejeanne
@Betty Cracker: Kat Cammack. She was part of the previous House, and she’s vile.
Fake Irishman
@C Stars:
When I edited a newspaper, we had little monthly column that local religious congregational leaders took turns writing. The woman who organized it all was a UCC pastor and I had some really fascinating conversations with her about the organization’s philosophy and theology.
Kent
Democrats have discipline and the know that as soon as this shit show is over, the Hunter Biden and Fauci witch hunt begins, so no one is in a hurry to speed that up. They are probably happy to delay it until June if necessary. No good is going to come from helping the GOP organize faster.
They get warning before roll call votes so if someone is in the loo they have plenty of time to get back. No need to worry about that. They just have to stay somewhere near the House Chamber.
Eolirin
@MisterDancer: I went through the same thing a while back on mental health related bigotry here. The person who most needs to hear it is gonna be the most defensive and the least willing to hear it, but it serves a valuable purpose for everyone else and we’ve got a good bunch of people here, they tend to appreciate it.
Keep on speaking your truth.
Eolirin
@Gravenstone: He’s not getting more votes than Jefferies, so no, it won’t help him become speaker.
WaterGirl
@Gravenstone: It lowers the threshold for both of them, but Hakeem starts with a much higher number of votes than Kevin.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: The blue and white dress lady? I wanted to smack her. Lying sack of shit.
Geminid
@CaseyL: I bet Democratic leadership emphasized to caucus members how important their presence would be. They have plenty to talk about with their peers, and besides peer pressure any slackers will make the wrong kind of news.
It actually seems like good team building exercise for the Democrats. I’m not sure about the Republicans though.
WaterGirl
@Almost Retired: I got a phone call. Who was the blue & white dress lady nominating?
Roger Moore
@CaseyL:
My understanding is the people don’t have to be on the floor all the time. If they miss their turn in the voice vote, they can still show up anytime before the vote is over to record their vote.
FWIW, I think the Democrats are doing this mostly as a show of unity and to mess with the Republicans. There’s no serious chance of Jeffries winning the vote and remaining Speaker for any length of time, at least without something causing the actual composition of the caucuses to change.
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: They call your name again after they make their way through the alphabet, so even if you’re in the bathroom when they call your name, you still get to vote.
Also, with the alphabetical voting, it’s probably fairly easy to time a bathroom break.
WaterGirl
Was that a baby crying a couple of minutes ago, or was it Kevin? Or one of the other Republicans?
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Kat Cammack from Florida. A rude jackass.
WaterGirl
I feel happy every time I hear the name call for the House members that we supported.
Betty Cracker
@opiejeanne: Thank you! Just looked her up, and she took over for Yoho, who was also a worthless piece of crap.
bjacques
@TooManyJens: I’m hearing it mispronounced. Someone needs to run at the GOP caucus with a spray bottle filled with some of that “Fentanol”.
JGreen
Late to this (shit)show, but it’s been pointed out that the Speaker of the House doesn’t have to be a current member of Congress. Does anyone out there think that after 100 or so rounds of this nonsense, the miserable bastards of the Republican party decides to unite around the one person they can agree upon…TFG (turns around and spits three times)? They’re crazy enough to do that, aren’t they?
And Happy New Year to all the jackals.
Tony Jay
@Paul in KY:
And a bloody great New Year to all the Family Paul.
Good of the GOMAGAPs to lay on the entertainment, isn’t it? Nicest thing they’ve done since getting Lincoln elected.
Citizen Alan
@H-Bob: Never heard that. My own recollection is that she was forced on him by his advisors who vetoed his preferred running mate, Holy Joe Lieberman, but that may have been after-the-fact whitewashing by Megan McCain and that crowed.
WaterGirl
So it’s the same result 20 not kevin, except we don’t have a PRESENT yet. Do we know if anyone has changed their vote? This really is a game of chicken between the kevins and the not kevins.
edit: and now we have the 1 PRESENT.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Was he also a lying piece of crap?
edit: Someone should have shouted “you lie!”
TooManyJens
@WaterGirl:
Well, now we have a Present. Also, Buck voted for McCarthy even though he had (reportedly) said he wouldn’t after a fifth vote. So, same as it ever was.
WaterGirl
@TooManyJens: Wow. Is there a strategy here, I wonder. It’s like a staring contest.
MisterForkbeard
@JGreen: Nah. It might actually be smart of them in the short term. But Trump has lost a lot of power in the party – note how they’re refusing to follow his orders now on voting for McCarthy.
In the medium term, this would be a disaster. Trump doesn’t know how to enforce order, discipline, or plan. He can’t count votes. He’d be an utter disaster as a Speaker for the Republicans and he would look exceptionally weak too, as it would be a step ‘down’ for him.
C Stars
@Fake Irishman: I joined very recently, just before the pandemic, and it’s honestly the only church I’ve ever attended regularly or been a member of. A surprising (to me) number of the congregation come from families with long UCC histories (going back many generations). It’s been interesting to me to see how much agency church members have to determine very specific details about how the organization as a whole operates. Which can sometimes be overwhelming (there are a lot of meetings), but is also quite distinctly democratic.
Paul in KY
@Tony Jay: They sure know how to put on a glorious shitshow!
Paul in KY
@MisterForkbeard: They are nuts, for sure, but I don’t think they are as bugfuck nuts as they would have to be to make TFG speaker.
There’s a bunch of them over there that think they could be speaker. It will be Kevin or one of them, IMO.